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TFC_Junky
06-20-2008, 07:07 AM
Looks like the discussions are underway! is this too early or should it have been done from the start? Thoughts?

Expansion of city-owned BMO Field considered (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080620.wfield20/BNStory/Front/home)

canadian_bhoy
06-20-2008, 07:10 AM
Uh Oh....Arrrrrrrrrrgoooooooooooo's.

McBrace
06-20-2008, 07:14 AM
The Only issue I see is that if they do expand, the design will be to accomodate the Argo's.

TFC_Junky
06-20-2008, 07:16 AM
I don't really see this having anything to do with the argos. This seems like because of the success of the team (and the fact that tickets are the hottest thing in Toronto) they want to put more fans in seats. At least that's how I read it. I really don't think the argos will ever play at BMO.

MisterMacphisto
06-20-2008, 07:27 AM
Argos are coming. No wait, they're not. Yes they may be coming, let's hold a protest. Oh, they're not, let's scale back a protest. Now another news story.

Fuck this, we need to go ahead with full scale protests. Until we ever get a definite, official public statement its not going to happen, this monkey will always be on our back.

McBrace
06-20-2008, 07:28 AM
I hope your right, but they do talk about the expansion being discussed would also target luring the Argo's from the Rogers center right?

olegunnar
06-20-2008, 07:35 AM
Nice timing on the article. The day after the Star article about the 1st quarter numbers this Globe piece comes out talking about how it's supposed to make money this year and how it's been used for 1400 community use hours.
Coincidence?

juki
06-20-2008, 07:49 AM
Argos might come to mind with this piece of news, but the other side which i think will be good, is that if they expand they will be expanding mostly cheap seats. Which will be better for us and will have the opposite effect of creating so much demand and too little supply...exactly what they have done at the ACC.

Ossington Mental Youth
06-20-2008, 08:12 AM
NO ARGOS.
Let me know when and where the protest is.

O.T. 66
06-20-2008, 08:22 AM
NO ARGOS!!!!! I don't want the BMO pitch to look like Wigans when they play after a rugby match

NF-FC
06-20-2008, 08:25 AM
i want BMO Field to expand, but not this way. 30,000 seats is way to big. we'd never fill it and we'd lose the buzz of being a "hot ticket". if anything attendance would drop until we are no better than the kkkrew...oh, and fuck off argos

TFC_Junky
06-20-2008, 08:56 AM
I didn't mean for this to go off topic with the anti-argos rant that we've all come to love, I just wanted to open the discussion on the expansion and what the potential problems could be. I agree with NF-FC that 30,000 may be a bit too big but what would the magic number be? 10,000 more cheap seats may not be too bad...

Jack
06-20-2008, 09:03 AM
I didn't mean for this to go off topic with the anti-argos rant that we've all come to love, I just wanted to open the discussion on the expansion and what the potential problems could be. I agree with NF-FC that 30,000 may be a bit too big but what would the magic number be? 10,000 more cheap seats may not be too bad...

Any article that mentions the Argos is immediately going to get our blood up.

As MM said above, until we have a definitive answer, this monkey is on our back.

Northern Soul
06-20-2008, 09:09 AM
Why is 30,000 too many? Aren't there something like 7,000 people on the waiting list for season tickets?

TFC_Junky
06-20-2008, 09:27 AM
^^ ya, that was kinda my thought. lets add the seats and rock the place!

NF-FC
06-20-2008, 09:30 AM
i'd prefer to expand in phases, keep the buzz up. throwing 10,000 extra seats into the market may dilute the value to much

Roogsy
06-20-2008, 09:43 AM
MLSE. Buy the stadium. Tell the city to piss off. Expand the stadium. Keep the profits. Put in grass. Lure back the MNT.

Everyone is happy and you have a brand new stadium that is wholly your own to control. On the Ex grounds no less.

nascarguy
06-20-2008, 09:45 AM
i say this now I have no trouble with remore all my banners and replaceing all of them with (THIS IS OUR HOUSE Argos GET YOUR ASS OUT )

our next MLS home game after this saturday game is not in till july 19 I'm going to get very bored with no MLS home games and when I get bored I make banners......

yellowfellow
06-20-2008, 09:47 AM
for once, I think MLS will step in and do something about this argos bs. The league has been promoting having its own S.S.S. for its teams.

Robin
06-20-2008, 09:51 AM
i don't think the argos are as likely as you think at BMO for several reasons

1. argos have been at the Skydome since 1989, almost 20 years. argos fans would have to give up their seats in the warm and cosy skydome for real outdoor weather, which can be pretty rough going into the fall

2. i haven't heard any hue and cry from argos fans wanting to move outdoors

3. would ted rogers sit quitely and loose a key tenant without fighting back?

4. my TFC sales guy tells me that he understand's the argos owners would be on the hook for the cash to make BMO Field capable of holding an argos game, and then returning it to a soccer field. the master lease says BMO Field must be returned to a soccer field after other events, such as concerts and other sports activities.

Lucky Strike
06-20-2008, 09:52 AM
for once, I think MLS will step in and do something about this argos bs. The league has been promoting having its own S.S.S. for its teams.

Makes sense and I certainly hope so. As for 10000 new seats, seems like a bit much. I'd go with 5000 and keep TFC as a hot ticket that's hard to come by.

nascarguy
06-20-2008, 10:02 AM
3. would ted rogers sit quitely and loose a key tenant without fighting back?

. he would just buy a NFL Team and make more with them then the Argos. .. & this bill that the gov trying to get passed where they want to banner the NFL from coming to canada is a joke the gov would make more money with the NFL then the CFL

Kevvv
06-20-2008, 10:08 AM
From their point of view, adding 10,000 seats won't cost twice as much as 5,000 seats. I'm sure they'd rather have 5,000 seats empty 75% of the time if they can sell 30,000 seats the rest of the time. The numbers tell the story - $98,000 annual profit on a $72 million investment (or on an $18 million investment, if you ignore 'free money' from other levels of govt). If the extra seats bring in enough revenue that the city doesn't need the Argos as a tenant, we're much better off.

When they look at the numbers, adding 10,000 seats in a soccer configuration will be much cheaper, and pay for themselves much quicker than changing the south to accomodate throwball.

Kevvv
06-20-2008, 10:11 AM
he would just buy a NFL Team and make more with them then the Argos. .. & this bill that the gov trying to get passed where they want to banner the NFL from coming to canada is a joke the gov would make more money with the NFL then the CFL


Actually, the NFL point is very important: if T.O. gets an NFL team (e.g. the Bills), they would have to stay in the Dome to accomodate the fans; 30,000 wouldn't be enough. (And if we got an NFL team and the Argos didn't fold or move, how many fans could they realistically draw?)

nascarguy
06-20-2008, 10:31 AM
I think all 8 bills games are just about sold out . ted rogers has fround his cash cow just like the mlse has with the leafs

RealG-TFC
06-20-2008, 11:27 AM
Can we fuck off on the Argos? Lets have a discussion on BMO Field instead please.

Anyways, if they do expand, what should be put forward is redirecting the "part-timers" out of the South End and giving more control to the Supporter groups over the south end.

olegunnar
06-20-2008, 11:32 AM
"Initial design work is under way by MLSE on how to add 10,000 seats for soccer games, either retractable or removable"

Any discussion of retractable or removable seats = Argos. Don't forget that.
If it weren't for the Argos why would they need to be retractable or removable??

So no we can't fuck off on the Argos

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-20-2008, 11:38 AM
i don't think the argos are as likely as you think at BMO for several reasons

1. argos have been at the Skydome since 1989, almost 20 years. argos fans would have to give up their seats in the warm and cosy skydome for real outdoor weather, which can be pretty rough going into the fall

2. i haven't heard any hue and cry from argos fans wanting to move outdoors

3. would ted rogers sit quitely and loose a key tenant without fighting back?

4. my TFC sales guy tells me that he understand's the argos owners would be on the hook for the cash to make BMO Field capable of holding an argos game, and then returning it to a soccer field. the master lease says BMO Field must be returned to a soccer field after other events, such as concerts and other sports activities.


1. the argos are looking for a cheap home, the now the bills will move
here sooner or later...sooner i hope and kill off the CFL in TO for good.

2. No the argos fans have said they like the dome...

3> rogers will have the Bills in there soon enough, so losing the argos
is no worry to him

4) thats thats big catch the argos cannot afford the changing back to a soccer venue on a regular basis, they can afford good players so thats one on our sdie.

James17930
06-20-2008, 11:38 AM
"Initial design work is under way by MLSE on how to add 10,000 seats for soccer games, either retractable or removable"

Any discussion of retractable or removable seats = Argos. Don't forget that.
If it weren't for the Argos why would they need to be retractable or removable??

So no we can't fuck off on the Argos

Yeah, screw this.

Put in 10,000 -- that's a good number. But make them PERMANENT. And never have the Argos set foot in the place.

Why don't the Argos owners get together with the Rugby Canada people and build a nice 25,000 seat CFL/Rugby stadium up at Downsview?

That would solve everyone's problems.

T0R0NT0 FC
06-20-2008, 11:45 AM
When I ordered my half-season pack for this year I asked the person about the possibility of getting season tickets next year. She said that they were looking at increasing the size of the stadium either end of this season or next season to increase the number of season ticket holders due to the large demand.

Also the original stadium was designed to add on a 2nd tier to the East side.

flatpicker
06-20-2008, 11:55 AM
Also the original stadium was designed to add on a 2nd tier to the East side.

From what I've seen and heard, the view of the city from the upper West stands is really nice.
I would think a second tier on the East would kill that.
I would rather see expansion happen in the north and south.

Wagner
06-20-2008, 11:59 AM
if they are expanding behind 112....how do i get on the List??

so say they expand the south end upwards....
i wonder what the atmosphere would be like??
I would hope that MLSE would really push to keep it supporters...
but i have a bad feeling that 112-119 would be supporters still...
but 212 to 219 would be prawns....

brad
06-20-2008, 12:05 PM
if they are expanding behind 112....how do i get on the List??

so say they expand the south end upwards....
i wonder what the atmosphere would be like??
I would hope that MLSE would really push to keep it supporters...
but i have a bad feeling that 112-119 would be supporters still...
but 212 to 219 would be prawns....

They could open it up for existing STH holders to move into the stands behind the supporters end, then open whats left to the waiting list folks. I have mixed feelings about this though. We need rowdy people all over BMO, not just in the supporters end and a move like that would probably kill any chance of that.

Miko
06-20-2008, 12:06 PM
JAMES17930 wrote "Why don't the Argos owners get together with the Rugby Canada people and build a nice 25,000 seat CFL/Rugby stadium up at Downsview?"

Rugby Canada was originally offered a share in BMO (which would have meant putting natural grass in) but they balked.

Jack
06-20-2008, 12:16 PM
From what I've seen and heard, the view of the city from the upper West stands is really nice.
I would think a second tier on the East would kill that.
I would rather see expansion happen in the north and south.

HA ha... had to be you! Mr. Artiste.

It would suck, but it's the most viable spot for expansion.

Wagner
06-20-2008, 12:17 PM
I hope they add some washrooms and concessions while they're at it.

greatwhitenorf
06-20-2008, 09:34 PM
I would buy a $100 piece of junk car for every game on the Argo schedule if they moved to BMO Field. Then I'd drive it into a key part of the CNE district road system, disable it, lock the doors, throw away the keys and abandon the clunker.

Then sit back and enjoy the traffic chaos. We'd have them begging to go back to the dome in not time.

Benevolent anarchy. Who's with me?

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-20-2008, 09:43 PM
expanding is good for the right reasons...TFC success...not the argos...if they ever get grass at BMO...Rugby Canada would have games there so theres another tenant and more useage...get the TFC academy games there more use.

James17930
06-20-2008, 09:59 PM
From what I've seen and heard, the view of the city from the upper West stands is really nice.
I would think a second tier on the East would kill that.
I would rather see expansion happen in the north and south.

I agree.

This is what I think we should go for:

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/austria/innsbruck_tivoli2.jpg

The Tivoli Neu Stadion in Innsbruck, one of the Euro 2008 sites. You can see how BMO Field could end up an almost exact copy of this, with the upper west deck extended over to the south end (and hopefully on the north end as well), with the east deck left single tier, and a roof over everything.

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/austria/innsbruck_tivoli1.jpg

Capacity is 30,000

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-20-2008, 10:05 PM
we need a east stand addition, sorry but more fans in the stadium will look better then the toronto skyline, you can see that anyplace in TO.

greatwhitenorf
06-20-2008, 10:24 PM
Tractor boy, I know you just love providing us with endless contrary back chat, but that view of the skyline is quite unique. Some of my season tickets are up on the west side shelf and it really is an extraordinary view. The TV folk do a serious bone stroke over it.

Easiest expansion would occur on the corners of the west stand and over the south end. And maybe a big cantilevered north end shelf over the beer garden - which will not be subject to removal any time soon.

James, thanks for the images. That is a sweet looking stadium. But we can't have one like it because Prince Cathal Kelly of The Toronto Star has expressed his disapproval of the place. Not enough concrete or bangers and champ for his liking.

Next picture please.

Fiin
06-21-2008, 05:25 AM
I am just impressed we own a stadium that actually makes money.. those in Hogtown are rare!

redcard
06-21-2008, 07:34 AM
i wonder if we would be able to sell out 30K, i still think the only reason we are sold out is because of becks, once he leaves what them?

a good indicator will be to see if we sell out for the concacaf matches, theres only no name players no chance of becks...

denime
06-21-2008, 08:10 AM
i wonder if we would be able to sell out 30K, i still think the only reason we are sold out is because of becks, once he leaves what them?

a good indicator will be to see if we sell out for the concacaf matches, theres only no name players no chance of becks...

Stop thinking,run,run Forest run.
I didn't know that Beckham plays for every team in MLS,and that's why we are sold out every game.:out:

T_Mizz
06-21-2008, 09:09 AM
Haha its funny cuz its true. This has been a long time coming as we sold out all the season tickets almost instantly and its impossible to get tickets so it'll just be better not to mention having 30,000 screaming fans instead of 20,000.

olegunnar
06-21-2008, 09:14 AM
It's too bad they have to share ticket revenue with MLS...otherwise we might get a north stand....instead rather than come clean and say (we make more off the beer garden than our cut would be from ticket sales there) we get lame excuses like fire exits etc....while all the gates on the east stand are all left closed this year.

My dream would be closed corners and a north stand. closed corners first.

Bender
06-21-2008, 01:53 PM
i want BMO Field to expand, but not this way. 30,000 seats is way to big. we'd never fill it and we'd lose the buzz of being a "hot ticket". if anything attendance would drop until we are no better than the kkkrew...oh, and fuck off argos

i wish some of you would take the time to read the entire article. it says the first phase is only 5,000 seats, and then another 5,000 the following year etc... that's plenty of time to allow growth for the stadium to fill up each year.

you guys are way to quick to find negative aspects of positive signs. This is great news, and it sounds like they are going about it the right way.

sidvan
06-21-2008, 09:45 PM
From Fridays papers

Here come the Argos again.


Expansion of city-owned BMO Field considered

Sold-out success of Toronto FC prompts talks to boost stadium seating to 30,000


JENNIFER LEWINGTON
From Friday's Globe and Mail
June 20, 2008 at 2:42 AM EDT

The huge popularity of professional soccer - Toronto FC is essentially sold out in its second season - is driving serious talk of expanding city-owned BMO Field...

Initial design work is under way by MLSE on how to add 10,000 seats for soccer games, either retractable or removable. Also under consideration are changes that would lure the Toronto Argonauts football team away from the Rogers Centre. ...

read more

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080620.wfield20/BNStory/Front/home

Cashcleaner
06-21-2008, 10:03 PM
The talk of the Argos was only a small part of the whole article, but I agree that we need to get final resolution on it. I think the remarks we should really focus on is the plan to expand seating to 30,000. That's quite a bit more than most of us predicted.

Roogsy has said it most succinctly. MLSE has to buy the facility lock, stock, and barrel. If the club gets ownership of the stadium, we wouldn't even have to worry about what any other Toronto team is doing for their venues.

TFC07
06-21-2008, 10:06 PM
From Fridays papers

Here come the Argos again.


Expansion of city-owned BMO Field considered

Sold-out success of Toronto FC prompts talks to boost stadium seating to 30,000


JENNIFER LEWINGTON
From Friday's Globe and Mail
June 20, 2008 at 2:42 AM EDT

The huge popularity of professional soccer - Toronto FC is essentially sold out in its second season - is driving serious talk of expanding city-owned BMO Field...

Initial design work is under way by MLSE on how to add 10,000 seats for soccer games, either retractable or removable. Also under consideration are changes that would lure the Toronto Argonauts football team away from the Rogers Centre. ...

read more

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080620.wfield20/BNStory/Front/home

"It [expansion] is a thought in everyone's head," said Dianne Young, general manager and CEO of Exhibition Place. "Will it happen for a year or two? Not likely."

On the touchiest political issue - who would pay for the project, which is estimated to cost between $15-million and $20-million - Exhibition Place chairman and deputy mayor Joe Pantalone was firm.

"The city clearly is not going to pay," he said. "We have already made our investment and it has been very successful."

Told of the comment, Mr. Hunter said "that is a good opening position."

That's what I have thought. Argos aren't coming unless they pay for expansion because if MLSE only pays for expansion, then I highly doubt they'll let the Argos play in BMO field at all.

TFC07
06-21-2008, 10:10 PM
I think $15million-$20million price tag only apply to adding 10,000 seats. It doesn't include rebuilding BMO field for CFL field standard which will cost even more money.

Roogsy
06-21-2008, 10:22 PM
I think $15million-$20million price tag only apply to adding 10,000 seats. It doesn't include rebuilding BMO field for CFL field standard which will cost even more money.

I hope so. I hope it costs so much that if the Argos decide to do it, they go broke.

Idiots. Stay out of BMO Field!

TFC07
06-21-2008, 10:29 PM
I hope so. I hope it costs so much that if the Argos decide to do it, they go broke.

Idiots. Stay out of BMO Field!

Are the Argos even making money?

Pachuco
06-22-2008, 01:57 AM
Not sure if anyone has asked this already so forgive me if it has.

Where would TFC play if BMO field was to be expanded? How long does it take to expand a stadium and will it cut into our season? If it does, we may need a make shift home field for a few months.

StandUpIfYouHateChelsea
06-24-2008, 12:02 PM
Why is 30,000 too many? Aren't there something like 7,000 people on the waiting list for season tickets?:canada:i say add 20,000 more i dont get why some of you only say we should add 5,000 =0 Toronto itself is built off of different cultures from FOOTBALL LOVING NATIONS !!!!!!!!!! lets see Little Italy , portugal , greektown ect, ect toronto could get the numbers and it WOULD remain a hot topic. Also another thing that needs to happen is football here at the grassrots level has to be fixed , toronto has the worst footy fields in the world and the city makes it worse by renting them out at every chance and not maintaining them. i think now especially with all the hype in toronto around TFC we can really start to change things for the better here in regards to footy. :canada::canada::canada::canada:

Billy the kid
06-24-2008, 12:52 PM
There will probably be some games that will not sell out. The Vancouver, Montreal games still have descent seats available and have been on sale for a while. For games where season ticket holders are not required to buy, they may not fill the stadium completely. It would still be worth it though. I think a lot of popular European clubs don't fill their stadiums everygame either.

Would keep ticket prices in check too, so that's a plus.

redcard
06-24-2008, 01:17 PM
Stop thinking,run,run Forest run.
I didn't know that Beckham plays for every team in MLS,and that's why we are sold out every game.:out:

but there must be a reason why so many tickets are sold on ebay and craiglist i dont think every STH shows up to all of games...

it will be interesting to see what happens when becks retires or leaves.

Fort York Redcoat
06-24-2008, 01:31 PM
Are the Argos even making money?

The argos make money. They make money because the have an avg of 20k-30k at their games and no rent. They can't afford to build their own stadium that's why they were talking to York , U of T and the city to take a portion of the expense. Keep our stadium small and sold out. The Argos can fix themselves without jumping on our good thing. This has a lot to do with the CFL/NFL situation at Rogers Centre. The Argos feel the competition. They should be worried.

Toronto_Bhoy
06-24-2008, 01:54 PM
But here's my concern Redcoat, as football money migrates from the CFL to NFL in this market, the Argo's are going to be looking for an "edge" and a quaint little park is a perfect starting point. Rogers wants to be associated with the big show and should they come the Argos will be the first fatality…quickly followed by our SSS/BMO.

This will only happen if the NFL comes full time and I don't see that happening anytime soon but the announcement today that the CFL has lost it's major sponsor is troublesome…which just happens to be…Rogers.

BMO is for Football…play Throwball somewhere else!

Keystone FC
06-25-2008, 05:48 AM
Can some tell me if the Argos have a lease with Rogers, and if they do when is it up?

tfc2007
06-26-2008, 04:05 PM
Argos are coming. No wait, they're not. Yes they may be coming, let's hold a protest. Oh, they're not, let's scale back a protest. Now another news story.

Fuck this, we need to go ahead with full scale protests. Until we ever get a definite, official public statement its not going to happen, this monkey will always be on our back.



well isn't their the protest at the MLS All-Star game regarding the Argo's