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DangerRed
04-23-2010, 03:24 PM
Thought I'd post this story from the Star questioning the viability of the Jays in Toronto given how shit they are and how poor their attendance has been as a result.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/article/799902--can-the-blue-jays-survive-in-toronto?bn=1

I know we're miles and miles from this sort of cliff, but looking at the ticket availability on Ticketmaster, you'd be hard pressed not to say that TFC attendance has peaked.

BFin
04-23-2010, 03:26 PM
Different schedules, different stadium sizes, different sports, different spectators, different length of season, no supporters clubs with the Blue Jays.

See why this is a silly debate?

DangerRed
04-23-2010, 03:28 PM
^I humbly disagree. Clubs of all sports tend to see sharp drops in attendance for a very similar reason, no matter what they're playing: poor performance and expensive ticketing.

Should also add this one, which tackles all sports in Toronto:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/799540--perkins-toronto-sports-fans-patience-could-be-running-out

TFC07
04-23-2010, 03:28 PM
Thought I'd post this story from the Star questioning the viability of the Jays in Toronto given how shit they are and how poor their attendance has been as a result.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/article/799902--can-the-blue-jays-survive-in-toronto?bn=1

I know we're miles and miles from this sort of cliff, but looking at the ticket availability on Ticketmaster, you'd be hard pressed not to say that TFC attendance has peaked.

Their attendance has been down since TFC first year. Maybe TFC is one of the reasons why blue jays attendance is down?

flatpicker
04-23-2010, 03:37 PM
Fact:

- Toronto sports fans have become exhausted with all the losing.
- If your name isn't Maple Leafs, then you better win games, otherwise fans will start staying home.

Ladies Love Julius James
04-23-2010, 03:52 PM
Fact:

- Toronto sports fans have become exhausted with all the losing.
- If your name isn't Maple Leafs, then you better win games, otherwise fans will start staying home.


Pretty much sums it up. It's about time too. There were too many times management and owners were making a killing off the poor product. Now they're forced to actually work

Redcoe15
04-23-2010, 03:55 PM
I disagree. IMO, soccer is on the upswing across Canada while interest in baseball in this country is delining.

flatpicker
04-23-2010, 03:59 PM
^ It wouldn't be declining if the Jays were winning.

Unfortunately, it's a little difficult to do that when you can't spend anywhere near what some other clubs do.

Beach_Red
04-23-2010, 04:06 PM
Pretty much sums it up. It's about time too. There were too many times management and owners were making a killing off the poor product. Now they're forced to actually work


Well, they've changed a couple of GMs, other than that, what more work are they doing now?

Batman
04-23-2010, 04:10 PM
frankly I even think the concern about the jays is overblown.

For many years they've had miserable attendance in april, with the exception of the home opener and games again the yankees or red sox.

Unless they go on a world series run I'd never expect to see endless 50k crowds, but if they ever get to the point that they are playing meaningful games late in the year, I expect they could easily get into the high 20s or low 30s.

That said, as for TFC, I expect interest has peaked and we are going to have a mild tail off this year. The novelty has worn off and the team Mo put together is pretty low end.

Whoop
04-23-2010, 04:13 PM
Cleveland's average attendance is lower than the Jays.

The Pirates have had crowds of 9,352 and 9,386 this year.

Baltimore has had crowds of 9,129 and 10,248.

Florida has had crowds of 10,119 and 10,681.

Kansas City has had crowds of 10,574 and 10,909.

Is baseball dying in those cities? Are those teams going to move?

I think this more of a baseball issue in that a lot of people are staying away from the game especially in mid-America which is a huge concern for MLB.

But in regards to attendance figures, the problem is two-fold:

1) The common denominator between all these teams: They suck.

2) Teams won't move or be sold because they're making money from the luxury taxes that teams like the Yankees and the Red Sox pay.

The only reference to be taken in relation to TFC is that if your team continues to suck people won't go to games. But football will continue to be popular in the city.

Pookie
04-23-2010, 04:16 PM
This is not a fair debate.

The Jays attendance suffers for a number of reasons but one of the major ones is that there is a lack of competitive balance in the game given that payrolls are so out of whack.

In the 90's, the Jays were near the top of the payroll charts and competed just fine. There wasn't a large gap between haves and have nots. Then the silly spending started and the disparity between teams is huge.

Combine that with a playoff format that sees the Jays competing for 1 slot within the division and 1 slot within the league (wildcard) and you have many fans wondering "what's the point"

Like it or not, the MLS has a much tighter control on spending such that being rich isn't necessarily a direct advantage. They also have 8 teams making the playoffs (or so I've heard) where conference doesn't matter as much.

That's a major difference

Ladies Love Julius James
04-23-2010, 04:16 PM
Well, they've changed a couple of GMs, other than that, what more work are they doing now?


Meet rock bottom. It's a product of the past. There's not much they could do this season but their attendence is suffering. I should rephrase: they need to do work if they want to have people attend games.

In the past Toronto was a place where you could be shit and people still attend games, not the case anymore.

trane
04-23-2010, 04:22 PM
To be honest I think the Jays situation is probably exagerated while the TFC situation may be more precarious then many think.

Whoop
04-23-2010, 04:22 PM
Rogers will sell and then MLSE will buy the team and put all their games on MLSE TV.

And somehow get the city to build them a new baseball stadium for free.

Batman
04-23-2010, 04:24 PM
Meet rock bottom. It's a product of the past. There's not much they could do this season but their attendence is suffering. I should rephrase: they need to do work if they want to have people attend games.

In the past Toronto was a place where you could be shit and people still attend games, not the case anymore.


True..and I think that's good news.

If everyone continued to support failing teams non stop why the hell would they ever try to get better.

I think a tail off in any sport when the team sucks should eventually be good for the fans. At least then we know the team's are probably motivated to put out a better product.

J_Tibu
04-23-2010, 04:28 PM
I think the footie fans and the baseball crowds are comepletely different and cannot be compared. With a lot of us footie has always been a passion, whether we've had a TFC to root for or not, we find something to follow. I don't see that same kind of passion from baseball fans (at least here in Toronto, other markets it's a different story)

Attendance may be down but that's just the nature of the beast, novelty wears out and let us not forget that we've just come out of an economic crisis where not everyone has the spare money to get out there.

rocker
04-23-2010, 04:28 PM
I don't think having a massive stadium helps the Jays either. It was great when it was sold out, but the appearance of empty seats and having nobody sitting next to you reduces the atmosphere (a lesson for TFC as they think about expanding BMO some more.). The current north end expansion is probably all they need for now.
The thing teams (and fans who orgasm over large stadiums) gotta learn is it's not about maximizing the number of seats in the stadium.
at this point 18500-20000 seat stadiums are all MLS needs. Fill them in all markets first, get the quality of the play up, get TV viewership up, and then revisit stadium size if everything else is in place. I imagine if the Jays played in a Fenway Park size of stadium they'd be better off.

Batman
04-23-2010, 04:29 PM
To be honest I think the Jays situation is probably exagerated while the TFC situation may be more precarious then many think.

I don't think there's anything precarious with tfc.

There might be a few seats unsold as the year goes on but nothing dramatic. And if people don't renew their seasons tickets next year I'm sure they'll be picked up by the waiting list. Maybe there aren't really 16k people ready to put up cash on the wait list but surely they could sell any un-renewed seats easily.

And a mild tail off of interest and they still make bundles given their low salaries.

Maybe we could ditch the useless GM to save a few bucks.

Whoop
04-23-2010, 04:31 PM
The thing with TFC and season tickets will be whether or not they raise prices.

If they stay the same, even if people leave, they should be able to sell.

But if they raise prices, and then people leave, those who would have been willing to buy might just pass on it.

trane
04-23-2010, 04:32 PM
^ I do not believe that there is as big a waiting list as they say, and those on the waiting list do not have to buy if they have lost interest.

I do not think that things will get bleak, but another season like that with little hope, and you may start seeing 10,000 at games, with an average attendace of 15,000 or so.

Beach_Red
04-23-2010, 04:38 PM
^ I do not believe that there is as big a waiting list as they say, and those on the waiting list do not have to buy if they have lost interest.

I do not think that things will get bleak, but another season like that with little hope, and you may start seeing 10,000 at games, with an average attendace of 15,000 or so.


They were only projecting 14,000, so this would be fine.

That's the most annoying thing, this wll be a good invstment even if attendance drops.

You really can't rely on needing a winning team to motivate this ownership. TFC can be a fairly lousy team for a long time and still be a good investment. The single-entity, salary cap MLS is a great investment.

trane
04-23-2010, 05:00 PM
^ I agree with that. But still 5000 ( for examply) tickets per games is a loss of profits, a substantial one. Even at 30 buck a ticket you would be looking at a loss of 1.5 Million in a season. No big money for MLSE, but still a good chunk in terms of margin.

Pookie
04-23-2010, 05:02 PM
They were only projecting 14,000, so this would be fine.

That's the most annoying thing, this wll be a good invstment even if attendance drops.

You really can't rely on needing a winning team to motivate this ownership. TFC can be a fairly lousy team for a long time and still be a good investment. The single-entity, salary cap MLS is a great investment.

^ this is partially true. This is a good investment even if they drew 14,000 fans. But I don't think they'll be happy with that considering their other recent investments in the team.

The investment in a DP and grass are direct costs that eat away at profit. To impact profits considering these expenses, MLSE needs to grow top line revenue.

They will do it by attracting big clubs for friendlies or hosting events like the MLS Cup. But they'll also do it by increasing the number of home dates for TFC, specifically CCL and MLS playoffs.

So, I don't buy the argument that they are complacent. I think it eats away at them that they aren't printing extra tickets and the building sits empty while they are signing $900,000 cheques to JDG and paying Scotts.

I have always felt that our problem is that MLSE looks for bandaids in order to chase short term revenue. We'll see a new GM soon. But that article in the SUN today about the best players who have moved on from TFC highlights to me that we have no structure to evaluate talent within this club.

We rely on one person (and his agent friends). MLSE will replace that one person with another person. Our "plan" becomes a cross your fingers that the guy can evaluate talent better than the last guy because there are (or were) no resources available to help either gentlemen.

Yeoman
04-23-2010, 05:09 PM
I'd certainly hope so
makes it easier for me to get tickets in 112 that way

TFCRegina
04-23-2010, 05:13 PM
TFC is nothing like the Jays.

First of all, the supporter groups.
Second of all, TFC isn't hampered by being in a division with unbeatable teams (BoSox, Yankees)
Third of all, Soccer is growing rapidly in this country, with or without TFC. Baseball is dying and will die, Blue Jays or Blue Jays.

Beach_Red
04-23-2010, 05:29 PM
^ this is partially true. This is a good investment even if they drew 14,000 fans. But I don't think they'll be happy with that considering their other recent investments in the team.

The investment in a DP and grass are direct costs that eat away at profit. To impact profits considering these expenses, MLSE needs to grow top line revenue.

They will do it by attracting big clubs for friendlies or hosting events like the MLS Cup. But they'll also do it by increasing the number of home dates for TFC, specifically CCL and MLS playoffs.

So, I don't buy the argument that they are complacent. I think it eats away at them that they aren't printing extra tickets and the building sits empty while they are signing $900,000 cheques to JDG and paying Scotts.

I have always felt that our problem is that MLSE looks for bandaids in order to chase short term revenue. We'll see a new GM soon. But that article in the SUN today about the best players who have moved on from TFC highlights to me that we have no structure to evaluate talent within this club.

We rely on one person (and his agent friends). MLSE will replace that one person with another person. Our "plan" becomes a cross your fingers that the guy can evaluate talent better than the last guy because there are (or were) no resources available to help either gentlemen.

Well, we'll see. I think MLSE is doing the best they can. And I think they need an investment that pays off with this rate of success because they know this is the best they can do. Sure, they don't like the idea of not printing up those extra tickets, but it's not killing them. Soon they'll replace the GM, but they likely won;t make any other changes.

TFC didn't get a DP or grass until there had been three and half years of profits. There won't be further expenditures until there has been the profits to pay for them. They weren't going to make those kinds of investments up front.

If they really wanted to prove they were interested in winning they could drop the money on a 2nd DP right now, get someone near the end of his career, even if it's only for the rest of this season, who score goals in MLS.

Whoop
04-23-2010, 05:32 PM
You could argue that baseball is still growing in Canada.

There are more Canadian players in the majors than every before and in pro baseball and in colleges.

And the number of kids playing in baseball in Canada has increased slightly over the years as well.

billyfly
04-23-2010, 05:37 PM
http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=21942

Yes I am trying to steal posts back to my earlier thread.

OneLoveOneEric
04-23-2010, 05:38 PM
I agree with trane. I think the Jays are a big part of the city even if attendance is down right now.
I think TFC is in a spot where it could fall off a cliff any time. I've had my seats up for sale twice already this year. Still no interest for Sunday's game that I can't make it to. In past years, they would jump out of my hand when I couldn't go. I'd have a million people wanting them.
The media buzz and hype is dying too. You don't here any real reporting on the "phenomenon" any more. And face it, without the phenomenon, there isn't much else for people to look at here right now.

Technorgasm
04-23-2010, 05:56 PM
http://www.sportslogos.net/images/logos/53/78/full/1416.gif


GOD WILLING - GO JAYS!!
(Thank you for giving me one of the best sporting related nights of my life!)

flatpicker
04-23-2010, 06:03 PM
^ yes... the good old days.

ManUtd4ever
04-23-2010, 06:10 PM
Rogers will sell and then MLSE will buy the team and put all their games on MLSE TV.

And somehow get the city to build them a new baseball stadium for free.

And then Rogers buys an NFL team to move into the Rogers Centre :D

ensco
04-23-2010, 06:10 PM
To be honest I think the Jays situation is probably exagerated while the TFC situation may be more precarious then many think.

Agree.

There is broad interest in MLB in this town, and a deep reservoir of goodwill for the Jays, who are part of the fabric here.

MLS/TFC are a tiny speck compared to this. There is deep interest, concentrated in a very small group of fans, but no broad interest, and zero interest in the league. Everyone who cares about TFC (a declining number) is at the games.

OneLoveOneEric
04-23-2010, 06:14 PM
Perfectly put, ensco.

S_D
04-23-2010, 06:14 PM
Rogers will sell and then MLSE will buy the team and put all their games on MLSE TV.

And somehow get the city to build them a new baseball stadium for free.

and you forgot to add that they will tear down the skydome and build a condo complex as the city will donate them a different chunk of land LOL

billyfly
04-23-2010, 06:34 PM
I see more BJ gear than Leaf gear around the City.

Pookie
04-23-2010, 07:54 PM
Surprised we've gone this long without someone saying, "I love BJs"

Anyways, TFC could learn a lot from the Jays of the 80's and 90's. They invested in a deep and talented scouting staff and really established themselves in hotbeds like the Domincan. They hired Epy Guerrero before they even played a game in 1977. Epy was a respected scout who signed players such as; George Bell, Alfredo Griffin, Tony Fernandez and Damaso Garcia and a whole host of others.

They drafted pitchers like Halladay, Hentgen, Carpenter, Timlin, Wells, Key, Stieb and developed them in a well coached and talented farm system.

They sent scouts to opposition games in order to get a handle on their strengths, weaknesses and ultimately build a strategy to play against them.

We've got what... First Wave (supplying both players and an Assistant GM), some game tape probably acquired illegally off the web and not to mention hopes and prayers.

Rather than asking will TFC become the Jays of the future, we should be demanding that they become the Jays of the past.

TFCRegina
04-23-2010, 08:48 PM
Surprised we've gone this long without someone saying, "I love BJs"

Anyways, TFC could learn a lot from the Jays of the 80's and 90's. They invested in a deep and talented scouting staff and really established themselves in hotbeds like the Domincan. They hired Epy Guerrero before they even played a game in 1977. Epy was a respected scout who signed players such as; George Bell, Alfredo Griffin, Tony Fernandez and Damaso Garcia and a whole host of others.

They drafted pitchers like Halladay, Hentgen, Carpenter, Timlin, Wells, Key, Stieb and developed them in a well coached and talented farm system.

They sent scouts to opposition games in order to get a handle on their strengths, weaknesses and ultimately build a strategy to play against them.

We've got what... First Wave (supplying both players and an Assistant GM), some game tape probably acquired illegally off the web and not to mention hopes and prayers.

Rather than asking will TFC become the Jays of the future, we should be demanding that they become the Jays of the past.

I agree. We need to be asking for some things (but not the needless cutting of players - we need continuity). If we're going to be forced to watch crap, they better be willing to develop a system so that it's not crap in the near future.

This club has dragged it's feet on development of a proper scouting set up, and a proper academy.

We're bringing in players at the U-16 level, which is probably too late to do any good. We need expansion of our academy to U-14 and U-12. Don't give me the lame excuse they can't find a place for them to play. Give them a professional set up in one of the amateur leagues in Toronto, and let them dominate until the other clubs are forced to play up to TFC Academy's standard.

We need to have 3 or 4 full time scouts, with people operating as associates (casual scouts who get paid when they pick a player who actually catches on with the club) to assist the full timers. We need to be scouting the PDL and Super Y for young talent coming up. Hell Everton does it, why can't we?

TFC also needs to spend money on a Designated Player striker if they have the cap room. We need goals. Chad Barrett is not a legitimate starter in this league. We need somebody who can put the ball in the back of the net on a regular basis. CB can come off the bench but should not be starting up top.

Those 3 things can help this club go a long way to righting some of the wrongs.

Our defense is finally looking less shaky. Let's address some other issues.

Whoop
04-23-2010, 08:53 PM
I see more BJ gear than Leaf gear around the City.

Really?

Still see way more Leafs stuff than anything else.

tfcleeds
04-23-2010, 09:40 PM
Surprised we've gone this long without someone saying, "I love BJs"

Anyways, TFC could learn a lot from the Jays of the 80's and 90's. They invested in a deep and talented scouting staff and really established themselves in hotbeds like the Domincan. They hired Epy Guerrero before they even played a game in 1977. Epy was a respected scout who signed players such as; George Bell, Alfredo Griffin, Tony Fernandez and Damaso Garcia and a whole host of others.

They drafted pitchers like Halladay, Hentgen, Carpenter, Timlin, Wells, Key, Stieb and developed them in a well coached and talented farm system.

They sent scouts to opposition games in order to get a handle on their strengths, weaknesses and ultimately build a strategy to play against them.

We've got what... First Wave (supplying both players and an Assistant GM), some game tape probably acquired illegally off the web and not to mention hopes and prayers.

Rather than asking will TFC become the Jays of the future, we should be demanding that they become the Jays of the past.

Well, Anthopoulos seems to be laying down the groundwork for developing that much needed scouting network again. Perhaps the 2010s will see the Jays develop a talent pipeline once again. Let's face it - given the status quo, its the only hope the Jays have of ever competing.

James Oliphant
04-23-2010, 09:44 PM
Hey, can anyone who's said in this thread that baseball is dying in Canada actually back up their claim with anything other than Jays' attendance?

Whoop
04-23-2010, 09:47 PM
I think it was only one person.

Even with the Expos gone, baseball is still pretty popular in Quebec.

Also MLB is probably the best league in terms of using internet broadcasting. They were the pioneers and are still the best.

James Oliphant
04-23-2010, 09:49 PM
I think it was only one person.

Even with the Expos gone, baseball is still pretty popular in Quebec.

Also MLB is probably the best league in terms of using internet broadcasting. They were the pioneers and are still the best.

I've got both TFCRegina and Redcoe saying it on the first page.

Bars92
04-23-2010, 09:58 PM
dumb thread, just really dumb.

TFCRegina
04-23-2010, 10:23 PM
Hey, can anyone who's said in this thread that baseball is dying in Canada actually back up their claim with anything other than Jays' attendance?

Personal experience.

My dad scouts for the Brewers. Numbers at the youth level are declining in Canada.

The reason why you have more Canadian major leaguers than ever before is because this is the generation which grew up watching the Jays win two World Series...

billyfly
04-23-2010, 10:25 PM
Really?

Still see way more Leafs stuff than anything else.

I am surprised at how many young kids are wearing Caps. I mentioned this last year as well on the boards. Lots of the Caps are "stylely" ones though and not necessarily traditional BJ colours.

Section 110
04-24-2010, 05:32 AM
TFC is nothing like the Jays.

First of all, the supporter groups.
Second of all, TFC isn't hampered by being in a division with unbeatable teams (BoSox, Yankees)
Third of all, Soccer is growing rapidly in this country, with or without TFC. Baseball is dying and will die, Blue Jays or Blue Jays.


There are differences, but let's not forget that the Jays were setting attendance records 15-20 years ago. They built the Dome and thought nothing could ever change. Guess what - the lockout happened and baseball has never recovered. Don't ever think that this can't happen to TFC. People believed it would never happen to the Jays - never mind other US teams - and it did. If baseball can be damaged in the US, you better believe that TFC sits on a still-fragile perch. The certainty and positivity that surrounds MLS right now is great but they are expanding too rapidly to be able to maintain what quality there is. The salary cap will have to be raised and this will change the entire economics of the game. Things are going to change, and soon. Let's hope that MLS' long-term vision is well thought out. MLB has over a hundred years of history it can rely on, and the Jays have over 20. TFC, if this continues, could see interest wane quickly, as evidenced by the demand for tickets even this year, the 4th season. Things can change quickly, especially when there is a lot out there for a Toronto fan's sports $. All that's left for the Jays is the core of dedicated fans. The fair weather TFC fan is already spending their money elsewhere - and who can blame them?

profit89
04-24-2010, 05:53 AM
Baseball is a dying sport.

Pookie
04-24-2010, 06:05 AM
Personal experience.

My dad scouts for the Brewers. Numbers at the youth level are declining in Canada.



That isn't a conclusive point to explain declining "interest." Interest as a percent of the population may be the same as it always was. The population just may be changing.

Our population demographics show that there are fewer "kids" then there were in previous generations.

David Foot's "Boom, Bust and Echo" explains trends in behaviour from sports, to business to crime, using demographics. Simply put, there were a lot of people born during the baby boom (after the war). Then the birth numbers numbers dropped off and this was called the bust period.

When baby boomers had kids, the number of kids of sport playing age would swell because there were a lot of them. Their parents were born during the baby boom so there was a huge number of available parents. This explains sport popularity during the 80's and 90's.

When the busters had kids, there were fewer kids because there were fewer parents to have them. These kids are working their way through the system now and numbers are dropping in schools and sports. Sports that appear to be growing are largely doing that by attracting girls to play.

Of course, this is just a general predictor. Your own city might be different due to immigration and population movement. The claim is that demographics explains 2/3 of everything.

ensco
04-24-2010, 07:24 AM
Personal experience.

My dad scouts for the Brewers. Numbers at the youth level are declining in Canada.

The reason why you have more Canadian major leaguers than ever before is because this is the generation which grew up watching the Jays win two World Series...

I think youth numbers are declining in US too. It's quite a serious problem for baseball. But they are still light years ahead of soccer, in terms of revenue/relevance, even in their worst markets.

I heard a radio guy say something interesting recently: if Darryl Strawberry were 18 years old today, he'd be a wide receiver at USC.

Beach_Red
04-24-2010, 09:05 AM
I think youth numbers are declining in US too. It's quite a serious problem for baseball. But they are still light years ahead of soccer, in terms of revenue/relevance, even in their worst markets.

I heard a radio guy say something interesting recently: if Darryl Strawberry were 18 years old today, he'd be a wide receiver at USC.


There was an article in the paper last week about the low number of black players in the majors and it pointed out that even of the black guys in the league, very few are American.

Strawberry might even be playing basketball today.

And that's the tipping pont soccer needs in the US. When guys like that, as kids, start choosing soccer as their first sport everything will change.

Cowboy905
04-24-2010, 09:07 AM
here's a cool article on the Jays cap. it's the cool thing to wear now..which is excellent for brand awareness.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/style/play-ball-blue-jays-caps-a-surprise-hit-in-ny/article1540804/

Jays fans are staying away this year as management said this could be a really ugly year for them. they are rebuilding and have no expectations. That being said, the jays will be competing as early as next year with their young group of core players. they also have the most depth in their Farm system.

more reasons for low attendance in the last 2 years.
1. the change in attendance announcements. they used announce total attendance and now MLB is only allowed to announce paid attendance.

2. the skydome is crumbling

3. management said we're gonna be garbage this year

4. traded away Doc...the best pitcher in all of baseball

5. ticket prices have increased...god knows why

6. 3 of the Top 5 teams in all of baseball are in the Jays division which makes things extra tough.

also, Jays are one of the only teams in baseball that post a profit due to solid ownership and their stable of assets.

http://blogs.forbes.com/sportsmoney/2010/04/the-toronto-blue-jays-are-staying-put/

also, if the commish goes with floating re-alignment, jays can easily make the playoffs...he's all ears.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tom_verducci/03/09/floating-realignment/index.html


can't compare the beast that is baseball to TFC right now. both have vastly different problems aside from both being losers.

OneLoveOneEric
04-24-2010, 09:20 AM
Imagine BMO field seated almost 50,000 people. Now imagine they, like the Jays, had 82 home games to sell.
What do you think the crowds would look like?
They'd be lucky to pull the numbers that the Jays do. 82 home games is a HUGE amount to sell.

Ladies Love Julius James
04-24-2010, 09:24 AM
Baseball is a dying sport.


Such an intellectual statement. So elegantly phrased, so brilliant. What next for the owner of this remarkable statement? I reckon a Noble Peace Prize is in order.

gtaguy
04-24-2010, 09:24 AM
The decline of viewership started back when the MLB went on strike in 94. I personally stopped watching it and attending.. I don't think they ever recovered from it.. As for Soccer I said it from tfc first year that soccer was going to start replacing north americas summer pasttime atleast here in T.O . Soccer is still fresh in the city but if a few more years of futiliy go on you can watch that boat sail away aswell.. I hope not becuase being the sport i have loved all my life i will fight tooth an nail to keep it alive here . There is only so much patience to any fan in any sport.

CretanBull
04-24-2010, 10:23 AM
Winning would help the Jays, but to be honest I don't know any young people who follow baseball. The immigrant nature of our city will make sure that soccer and basketball are successfull, and new Canadians want to do the 'Canadian thing' and take an interest in hockey but I think baseball might be on the outside looking in. Being stuck in the same division as the Red Sox and the Yankees doesn't help. It sucks knowing that no matter how good of a season that you have, your odds of making the post season are pretty close to nil.

billyfly
04-24-2010, 11:04 AM
[quote=Cowboy905;994630]here's a cool article on the Jays cap. it's the cool thing to wear now..which is excellent for brand awareness.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/style/play-ball-blue-jays-caps-a-surprise-hit-in-ny/article1540804/

Take that Whoopee! Thanks Cowboy.

Whoop
04-24-2010, 11:13 AM
You said in Toronto... not New York! LOL

Cowboy905
04-24-2010, 11:23 AM
i agree with Billyfly though. i do see more Jays gear than any other Toronto team gear.


this helps as well. http://vektorrrr.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/drake-vibe-magazine-cover1.jpg

but out of all team merchandise, the jays have a real extensive collection and a nice solid line of apparel.... hopefully one day TFC will have a collection as extensive.

no matter how much the crowds are dwindling...Toronto wouldn't be the same without the jays. they need a smaller stadium. i went down to pittsburgh to watch the jays play them two years ago because ESPN rates PNC park the best park in America, the stadium holds about 35,000 and it looked half full which looks way better than toronto's 1/5 full empty cavern yet the attendance is the same.

http://rootzoo.com/uploads/1193451127.jpg

Adidas needs to loosen their grip on MLS merchandise and let some other guys come in and make some good gear as well. then we'll see more variety t-shirts, hats, etc.

ginkster88
04-24-2010, 11:29 AM
That old-school Jays lid has always been a winner. Except, I guess, from 1977-1991 and again from 94-96.

The Jays will survive. The Toronto media always loves a good doom and gloom story, especially when the Leafs are suffering. After all, misery loves company. The new CBA should help; I can't think that an expanded playoff format won't get in. Perhaps something as simple as a three-game series in the first round would work well with baseball's long season, but that's another conversation.

ginkster88
04-24-2010, 11:32 AM
i agree with Billyfly though. i do see more Jays gear than any other Toronto team gear.

Two things: observational evidence is notoriously unreliable (you tend to see what you're expecting to see), and it's the summer. These are the months when the Jays gear comes out, and a lot of guys with Leafs and Jays hats (like me) switch out the Blue and White for the Blue, White and Red... the original logo is perfect for the sunshine.