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billyfly
04-20-2010, 11:10 AM
What is happening with TFC right now is a great study in the Toronto sports fan.

New team with 4 years of poor performances. So far Toronto FC have not lost too many fans but most predict they will.

Let's look at Toronto's other major teams:

The Raptors: are 15 years old. Many older basktball fans who followed the NBA before 1995 had NBA teams (I followed the
Celtics) and either continued with their teams or switched or had to decide to follow both.

The Jays: have been around a long time and although like the Raps in some regards, most S.O. baseball fans are Blue Jay fans.
There are still LOTS and LOTS of Bankees and BlowSox fans though.

The Leafs: Most born and raised Southern Ontario non-Leafs had to make a choice to NOT follow the Leafs. Everyone that doesn't like
the Leafs has their own story (shut-up Vic no one is asking you) about why so let's not go too much into that. Because of the stature of
the sport in Canada, its hard to not want to follow an NHL team, so people gravitated to other teams if they couldn't handle the
whole 43 years thing.



Questions:

1-So - What do the 75 mile bastards do? Is it easier for them to walk away from this b/c ultimately its not their hometown
team?

2-How many of us will "pick" another MLS team? (LOL....)

3-How many will just go back to their EPL, Serie A, Liga teams and not come back? (Kinda like the CFL and NFL thing in this
City)

4-Is soccer at risk at being abandoned by the fan and the media?

Roogsy
04-20-2010, 11:14 AM
1) I think the 75 mile bastards are some of the hardest supporters we have seen. True dedication. They will last longer than most Toronto fairweather fans.

2) TFC is my team. I will never have any other team.

3) I have already started watching less EPL, I can't give up my Liga though.

4) There is a real risk to the development of soccer. The progress we have made in having TFC is being undone by their incompetence.

Whoop
04-20-2010, 11:22 AM
Right now, I would say TFC is on the same trajectory as the Rock. The post championship Rock teams.

1) Agree with Roogsy.
2) Agree with Roogsy.
3) Still watch other football, still watched some MLS before Toronto.
4) I don't think the media will abandon it as it's too much of a soap opera.

I don't think the lack of on-field success by TFC will diminish the development of football in Toronto. It was growing before TFC and will continue to grow. But the more success TFC has, the faster the development can advance.

The big key is I think Toronto FC fans have more of an opportunity to exact change on its team than fans of the other teams.

That's where SG's have a huge advantage over fans of other Toronto teams.

billyfly
04-20-2010, 11:30 AM
Right now, I would say TFC is on the same trajectory as the Rock. The post championship Rock teams.

1) Agree with Roogsy.
2) Agree with Roogsy.
3) Still watch other football, still watched some MLS before Toronto.
4) I don't think the media will abandon it as it's too much of a soap opera.

I don't think the lack of on-field success by TFC will diminish the development of football in Toronto. It was growing before TFC and will continue to grow. But the more success TFC has, the faster the development can advance.

The big key is I think Toronto FC fans have more of an opportunity to exact change on its team than fans of the other teams.

That's where SG's have a huge advantage over fans of other Toronto teams.


This is a great point. My concern is that it may not be a completely great thing. I believe that "we" actually made Mo get Gerba and maybe JDG.

J .
04-20-2010, 11:35 AM
Questions:

1-So - What do the 75 mile bastards do? Is it easier for them to walk away from this b/c ultimately its not their hometown
team?

2-How many of us will "pick" another MLS team? (LOL....)

3-How many will just go back to their EPL, Serie A, Liga teams and not come back? (Kinda like the CFL and NFL thing in this
City)

4-Is soccer at risk at being abandoned by the fan and the media?

1. The true supporters will still come, the fairweather fans will come when the team wins.

2. LOL

3. I started watching the EPL more now there is an MLS club, occasionally will watch a non-TFC MLS game (probably more once MTL and Van are in). There are some Europhiles who are already tuning out MLS, which is fine with me. Its definately not the same quality, but TFC is my hometown team and they are the object of my soccer affection forever.

4. No, the media has already begun to pick up and soccer is just growing. Its only been four seasons, soccer is about the blossom in Canada.

J .
04-20-2010, 11:36 AM
[/b]


This is a great point. My concern is that it may not be a completely great thing. I believe that "we" actually made Mo get Gerba and maybe JDG.


People including myself were dying to get Gerba. He was a fail. I never wanted JDG here as he is not suited to the role desired from him. He would never live up to expectations and we already have DeRo in the role JDG would need to play.

billyfly
04-20-2010, 11:38 AM
But that's what I am talking about. "Fairweather fans" are defined differently by different people. When will these leave and what will they do?

Yeoman
04-20-2010, 11:41 AM
Questions:

1-So - What do the 75 mile bastards do? Is it easier for them to walk away from this b/c ultimately its not their hometown
team?

2-How many of us will "pick" another MLS team? (LOL....)

3-How many will just go back to their EPL, Serie A, Liga teams and not come back? (Kinda like the CFL and NFL thing in this
City)

4-Is soccer at risk at being abandoned by the fan and the media?

1. hell no. this is the team that brought me into soccer
2. hell no. hell no. hell no. hell no.
3. again, TFC is my team. i don't bleed for any other.
4. this year will probably assist in a make or break for it really. it'll be a huge set back i'm sure, if TFC does not make the playoffs and/or MTL/VAN doesn't win the NASL Cup

TFC Via Buffalo
04-20-2010, 11:43 AM
Thanks for those kind words there Roogsy. I feel I can speak for the group in that I know the Bastards will always be there.

Honestly, I was not a big soccer fan until TFC. I watched the World Cup and stuff, but I couldn't tell you who anyone was anywhere. I found my EPL and Serie A teams by TFC getting me really into the sport. I won't abandon TFC for my Europe teams because TFC brought me to the dance. I was a TFC fan before them and always will be.

drewski
04-20-2010, 11:51 AM
1)depends on how they became 75MB. I'm one cause I moved away from TO, but I grew up there so TO teams will always be my team

2)TFC or bust. iTFC is the only reason I watch MLS

3)I've stayed with the EPL and liga cause the overlap isn't too long and when they do they aren't at the same part (exciting part of EPL in apr/may = start of MLS, etc)

4)I think it could go to the level of the Toronto rock, 10k-ish attendance of hardcore fans and the rest of the city doesn't pay attention

Beach_Red
04-20-2010, 12:08 PM
[/b]


This is a great point. My concern is that it may not be a completely great thing. I believe that "we" actually made Mo get Gerba and maybe JDG.


Absolutely we did. That's the real hallmarlk of Toronto fans - always picking favourites and looking for saviours. We also forced many players out of here. Which may have been "right" but couldn't have gone over well in the dressing room. Now, when a TFC player gets into a slump he probably just thinks, "No big deal, I'll do better on my next team."

This team seems determined to make that original projection of 14,000 fans come true. Maybe that's been the five year plan all along.

stugautz
04-20-2010, 12:11 PM
Kinda agree with the consensus except for point 4. I don't see the media paying too much attention to TFC unless the TV ratings pickup. We'll see how things are over the next 4 games (with two of those on CBC)

DangerRed
04-20-2010, 12:42 PM
I think long-term the drop off in attendance will come in part due to the mismatch between ticket prices and the quality of the product. Aside from being a poor performance, the one thing that stood out about both the home opener and the Rapids game was how thoroughly boring they were.

Us bozos will continue to shell out for games because we love the sport and the idea of having a home team. However, the casuals won't keep coming with their kids to watch boring, overpriced garbage, especially when they're selling the same thing at Ricoh across the lot for less money.

This won't happen overnight, necessarily, but if this team continues to do what it's doing, you'll see it pick up.

Shep
04-20-2010, 01:00 PM
I'll be with TFC until the end, and hopefully it's my end that comes first.

of course it will be a hell of a lot easier once I get my seasons and my job relocates me up there in a year or so.. I feel like shit if I miss a match, even with my 200km drive and overpriced internet tickets I don't plan on missing more than 3 or so a season if I can help it.

dupont
04-20-2010, 01:06 PM
Questions:

1-So - What do the 75 mile bastards do? Is it easier for them to walk away from this b/c ultimately its not their hometown
team?

2-How many of us will "pick" another MLS team? (LOL....)

3-How many will just go back to their EPL, Serie A, Liga teams and not come back? (Kinda like the CFL and NFL thing in this
City)

4-Is soccer at risk at being abandoned by the fan and the media?


1 - Those guys are too amazing to abandon us!

2 - Toronto til I die

3 - I always liked soccer but I never loved soccer until I felt the passion of having a team in my home town. I only really started following EPL and La Liga after becoming a big TFC fan. I'll just watch MLS and Euro soccer

4 - I doubt it. Don't forget that Montreal and Vancouver joining the league will create a snowball effect for interest in this country

Tezza
04-20-2010, 01:28 PM
Absolutely we did. That's the real hallmarlk of Toronto fans - always picking favourites and looking for saviours. We also forced many players out of here. Which may have been "right" but couldn't have gone over well in the dressing room. Now, when a TFC player gets into a slump he probably just thinks, "No big deal, I'll do better on my next team."

This team seems determined to make that original projection of 14,000 fans come true. Maybe that's been the five year plan all along.


If you believe that then why is Mo still here?

Globetrotter
04-20-2010, 01:34 PM
Nobody should discredit the "fairweather" fans. If they don't fill the stadium, management will notice the lack of revenue.

mclaren
04-20-2010, 01:37 PM
Quite frankly I think the games are, at least on paper, going to be sold out for another 2 seasons. If both those two seasons flop, the gates may turn south. However, we still only have a very small stadium with a lot football fans in the GTA. If the people leave, I think they will return provided a good product is served up. I think minimum we could get down to around 15,000 attendances but that's not terrible compared to the rest of the league - long way to go to get there though.

I think VERY few, if any, are going to jump ship to another MLS team - can't see that happening unless another team launches in Toronto.

jabbronies
04-20-2010, 01:45 PM
I'm only going to speak to number 4 cos it's really the only part I have an opinion on that'll differ from others.

Sports media in this town will drop TFC like it wasn't even there. Yes they are now picking up on it and more outlets are starting to pay attention, however, they do so at a low point in the franchise's young history.

After they take in all the excitement of the supporters and the atmosphere in the stadium, they'll look at the product on the field and laugh! Soccer has a reputation in NA of being a boring drawn out sport to watch. Once they watch TFC trip over themselves on the field, they'll wonder why they bothered in the first place.

TFC has until the end of the World Cup 2010 to turn things around. Once that tournament is over, people will desperately be looking for soccer to watch. if they tune in to this team playing they way they are, they'll be turned off of this team for a long long time.

DangerRed
04-20-2010, 02:01 PM
TFC has until the end of the World Cup 2010 to turn things around. Once that tournament is over, people will desperately be looking for soccer to watch. if they tune in to this team playing they way they are, they'll be turned off of this team for a long long time.

See, I think the World Cup could actually hurt the TFC's chances. Casuals who tune in to TFC looking for their post-WC soccer fix will be shocked to see that DeRo and the boys aren't exactly the Portugese national squad in terms of quality.

drewski
04-20-2010, 02:21 PM
See, I think the World Cup could actually hurt the TFC's chances. Casuals who tune in to TFC looking for their post-WC soccer fix will be shocked to see that DeRo and the boys aren't exactly the Portugese national squad in terms of quality.


maybe, but I think more people who wouldn't call themselves soccer fans and who don't know enough to consider TFC's game ugly might be turned onto TFC after the WC.

I remember when I started paying attention to soccer after '94. I didn't know enough to be able to tell if it was "good" soccer or not. I probably woulda just started following TFC cause it was local, major league soccer.

TFC Via Buffalo
04-20-2010, 03:19 PM
maybe, but I think more people who wouldn't call themselves soccer fans and who don't know enough to consider TFC's game ugly might be turned onto TFC after the WC.

I remember when I started paying attention to soccer after '94. I didn't know enough to be able to tell if it was "good" soccer or not. I probably woulda just started following TFC cause it was local, major league soccer.

I could actually fall into that catagory only a few years ago. Now that I watch soccer from everywhere, I can recognize bad soccer compared to quality. I could see a potential problem, if someone was to watch the World Cup, go to TFC and like it, get into a league like the EPL, then abandon MLS due to the quality. That's where the atmosphere we create comes in and could help keep people in the stands.

rocker
04-20-2010, 03:40 PM
Quite frankly I think the games are, at least on paper, going to be sold out for another 2 seasons. If both those two seasons flop, the gates may turn south. However, we still only have a very small stadium with a lot football fans in the GTA. If the people leave, I think they will return provided a good product is served up. I think minimum we could get down to around 15,000 attendances but that's not terrible compared to the rest of the league - long way to go to get there though.

I think VERY few, if any, are going to jump ship to another MLS team - can't see that happening unless another team launches in Toronto.

I'm with you on this..... soccer is so ingrained in the GTA that this team will always be relatively well off in that regard.

Also, some of the people we may lose aren't always the ones we want to keep. remember that a lot of people got in after hearing about Beckham coming to the league and had certain expectations anyways. They've probably held on because they have the $$$ to blow but are on the edge.

The fact is, if this team ever has any success at all, I think the sellouts will return very quickly, perhaps with totally new fans coming to the team. If the league itself increases in quality (thanks to a new TV deal in 2015 funding a significant rise in the cap over 10 years) there could be a whole new fanbase interested in big name players.... and the original fan base will only be a portion of that.

But I will always be there.....

billyfly
09-27-2010, 03:54 PM
BUMP.

I know there are many threads about the same overall topic but just thought I'd bump it.

TFCRegina
09-27-2010, 04:03 PM
As a 75MB, I keep supporting Toronto. I've thought about FC Edmonton in the past but I put those thoughts to rest. While it is closer to home I made my bed, and I'll lie in it, even if the bed has nails, bugs and a big urine stain from the previous user (coincidentally with the initials T.A.).

Besides, it's kinda fun telling people I'm one of those hopeless Toronto sports fans. :D

billyfly
09-27-2010, 04:05 PM
For sure there is some fun being from Toronto like the way the BlowSox fans were before they won the WS.

But in 2nd thought, I'd trade my left nut for a Stanley Cup.

Hitcho
09-27-2010, 06:05 PM
My only sense of conviction on this topic is that if:

1. MLSE keeps raising prices the way they have been; and

2. they also keep screwing up the composition of this team from the GM down to fringe players

then fairly soon fans will leave in droves and we'll get 12k to 15k a game.

Imagine three more years of this - missing the playoffs each season and then blowing everything up and being just as shit the following year, but continuing to raise ticket prices at frightening rates - and then picture a Weds night game in late September, in the rain, when we're out of the play offs early (again). Do you honestly think we'll have more than 10k fans in BMO Field?

This off-season is the real end of the honeymoon period for MLSE and TFC. For the first time they are faced with supporter apathy great enough to leave significant amounts of empty seats on game days and induce non-renewal of season tickets. Fix it, or keep your eyes on the money and watch it fall apart in the background. The decision, is yours...

twistedchinaman
09-27-2010, 06:16 PM
Questions:

1-So - What do the 75 mile bastards do? Is it easier for them to walk away from this b/c ultimately its not their hometown
team?

2-How many of us will "pick" another MLS team? (LOL....)

3-How many will just go back to their EPL, Serie A, Liga teams and not come back? (Kinda like the CFL and NFL thing in this
City)

4-Is soccer at risk at being abandoned by the fan and the media?


1) My distaste for the Shitecraps and the Limpact were sealed in season 2, and as a Calgarian I will not touch anything Edmontonian even with a hundred-foot iron pole...so yeah, you douchebags are stuck with me. :D

Sure, I could've jumped ship after season 3 and went to Seattle. But there's something about this team that draws me in. For one, the people that support this team...and the list goes on and on, all of which teams in my area (Salt Lake, Colorado) lack.

2) I'm sure there will be those who will jump, but to where?

3) I'm sure there have been some, and will be more in the future. But that's their perogative.

4) If this BS goes on, then yes. Unless another team rises.

twistedchinaman
09-27-2010, 06:19 PM
As a 75MB, I keep supporting Toronto. I've thought about FC Edmonton in the past but I put those thoughts to rest. While it is closer to home I made my bed, and I'll lie in it, even if the bed has nails, bugs and a big urine stain from the previous user (coincidentally with the initials T.A.).

+1.

There are teams who have suffered much longer...the ButtSox and their 86 year drought, or even the Sydney Swans and their 72 year drought. I've lived through 8 seasons of playoff-free springs here in Calgary watching the Flames...so I know how it feels.



Besides, it's kinda fun telling people I'm one of those hopeless Toronto sports fans. :D

And that doesn't get you strange looks from people in Regina? Really?

dow117
09-27-2010, 06:21 PM
Hey, being a Scotland supporter, following TFC is a cakewalk for loyalty: long suffering makes every victory so much sweeter.... Scotland World Cup... 20 when? TFC playoffs .... 21 when??

menefreghista
09-27-2010, 09:46 PM
then fairly soon fans will leave in droves and we'll get 12k to 15k a game.


Based on the number of people actually in attendance for TFC games recently we may see this as soon as next season.

billyfly
09-27-2010, 09:56 PM
I'd like to add (as the OP of this thread I can) to all the people that make fun of the Leafs etc and distance themselves from that Toronto team, welcome to a Leafer's world.

Kevvv
09-27-2010, 10:44 PM
This team doesn't have a deep enough or loyal enough fanbase to support decades of futility

DichioTFC
09-27-2010, 11:01 PM
Questions:

1-So - What do the 75 mile bastards do? Is it easier for them to walk away from this b/c ultimately its not their hometown
team?

2-How many of us will "pick" another MLS team? (LOL....)

3-How many will just go back to their EPL, Serie A, Liga teams and not come back? (Kinda like the CFL and NFL thing in this
City)

4-Is soccer at risk at being abandoned by the fan and the media?

1. I'm a 75MB because I'm currently in Detroit, but I've spent 24 of the 26 years I've been alive in the GTA, so yeah, TFC is my club. The 75MBs show up to almost *literally* every match, home or away. My signature shows how far I've traveled for this team this year, 10,555km and I am *far* from the most dedicated of these guys (TFC via Buffalo holds that title, sorry to the other guys ;)). I'll move back to the GTA next year but I'll always be a 75MB because I love the club and I love those guys (and its those guys, truth be told, that keep me as a paying member of RPB)

2. No way will I "pick" another team. I haven't been this fanboy about a team since the Montreal Canadiens when I was a kid. TFC is really my life.

3. I only got into soccer because of TFC. I was aware of what was going and I would watch the biggest matches, but TFC is my first club. I'm a frontrunner when it comes to the big European teams (make a superficial pick based on FIFA for PS3).

4. The risk is always there. There will never be another pitch invasion, and there will never be another cushion-tossing celebration. But there will always be a market and there will always be fans.

TFCRegina
09-27-2010, 11:52 PM
Hey, being a Scotland supporter, following TFC is a cakewalk for loyalty: long suffering makes every victory so much sweeter.... Scotland World Cup... 20 when? TFC playoffs .... 21 when??

p3-eavMSBnk

Mark in Ottawa
09-28-2010, 07:50 AM
No one dragged me to a TFC game and forced me to be a TFC fan.

I came in from the Canadian soccer wilderness... after wandering since the world cup of 1986 wondering how it went all so wrong... and found a like minded group of soccer supporters who wanted nothing more than the opportunity to cheer on a team they could call their own. It boded well for the domestic national team and the status of the game in North America as a whole. I like being a TFC supporter.

Yeah... I expected different results from the "5 year plan" and am disappointed that TFC seems to have self destructed and looks to be starting over. But then again I think of how depressing it was... alone in the wilderness... and realize that TFC (warts and all) have given me some good times and I have faith will do so again.

Yep I watch EPL... same game but different world in an economic and cultural sense. It is what it is and MLS is what it is... and I accept both for what they are and what they can be.

Fort York Redcoat
09-28-2010, 08:30 AM
2-How many of us will "pick" another MLS team? (LOL....)

3-How many will just go back to their EPL, Serie A, Liga teams and not come back? (Kinda like the CFL and NFL thing in this
City)

4-Is soccer at risk at being abandoned by the fan and the media?

Picking another MLS team is indeed laughable if you're from this region. Few people were at TFC for soccer and fewer still for the league that they're watching. Now with the lack of quality I fear that there will be those that abandon their local side to go back to their winning foreign team to laugh with other eurosnobs about what better supporters they are for never leaving the house or pub to see a real live pitch.

The media will love us as the club declines.

reggie
09-28-2010, 09:39 AM
TFC is my team,they are the only team that i will spend a penny on.
ive been waiting too long for a pro team in a real stadium with real fans.
its only been 4 yrs we have chill people.

billyfly
09-28-2010, 10:19 AM
Picking another MLS team is indeed laughable if you're from this region. Few people were at TFC for soccer and fewer still for the league that they're watching. Now with the lack of quality I fear that there will be those that abandon their local side to go back to their winning foreign team to laugh with other eurosnobs about what better supporters they are for never leaving the house or pub to see a real live pitch.

The media will love us as the club declines.

Yes. This is what I see happening. This is why I added "LOL" to that question.

Redcoe15
09-28-2010, 11:43 AM
Had either Vancouver and/or Montreal arrived before Toronto, I might have supported them - Montreal more than likely of the two. The fact that TFC were the first MLS team based in Canada, that they were in my part of the country - Southern Ontario, and that they've adopted the look and feel of a Canadian side, made it so easy for me to get behind them.

TFC have been my team right from the get go. I've been living and dying with this club. Mostly dying. This team has been run in your typical MLSE fashion - concentrate more on the profits while not knowing how to build a winning team.

But I still hold out hope that this side will be able to turn things around and bring an MLS Cup to Toronto and it's loyal fans. Especially now since Mo Johnston is finally gone.

P-NUTZ
09-28-2010, 12:12 PM
1. MLSE is lucky to have such fans - not sure what their tolerance level is.
2. No. And i think i will hate VAN & MTL, just as much as every other MLS team.
3. If it wasn't for EPL and SERIE A, i would completely lose my mind over this MLS/MLSE/TFC comedy of errors.
4. The media should let MLSE have it good and hard until they try to change their sport destroying ways.

menefreghista
09-28-2010, 12:23 PM
Right now, I would say TFC is on the same trajectory as the Rock. The post championship Rock teams.

I know this post is old, but I agree with this.

The only shit thing is we didn't really get to win like the Rock did for awhile.

But all the elements are there. Big media buzz about the atmosphere and people having fun at games. An FO that continues to raise prices too quickly. Declining interest once the novelty has died down.

I have a friend that use to have Rock season tickets against the glass. But after 2 seasons he gave them up because they were raised too high.

I really do think MLSE is playing with fire in regards to TFC. They are trying to use their Leafs 'fan harvesting' model on a fan base that was never really that big to begin with. They are pricing people out of the stadium before they even built a strong and large fan base.

TFC07
09-28-2010, 12:34 PM
Questions:

1-So - What do the 75 mile bastards do? Is it easier for them to walk away from this b/c ultimately its not their hometown
team?

2-How many of us will "pick" another MLS team? (LOL....)

3-How many will just go back to their EPL, Serie A, Liga teams and not come back? (Kinda like the CFL and NFL thing in this
City)

4-Is soccer at risk at being abandoned by the fan and the media?

1. TFC = Toronto team or GTA team in general?

2. To be honest, I can picture myself becoming a Whitecaps fan. I got family and friends in Vancouver. So I can visit them and watch a game or two there during the summer. Also if Toronto ever gets a second team and it was located in western GTA (Peel region), I will be the first to ditch TFC.

3. Since TFC, I have watch less soccer from overseas and if TFC keep this up (how they play and run their team), I might as well return to watching soccer overseas.

4. I think TFC shook up Canadian soccer and MLS world. Since TFC, there has been way more soccer coverage in media than ever before. Not only that, but TFC is the reason why Vancouver and Montreal are joining MLS now (I believe MLS wanted those two cities in the past, but they rejected the offer until Toronto joined and became an instant success). TFC proved in short period that if you market your game properly, people will come and watch. I don't think media will stop covering soccer now. If anything, there will more media coverage for soccer in this country now that Vancouver and Montreal are joining the league.

james
09-28-2010, 12:52 PM
people define fairweather fans in different ways. But i had tickets from day 1, however the price has gone up and up and up, am i a fairwether fan because i dont think i can afford to buy seasons again next year? Would i be a fairweather fan because i have a terrible taste in my mouth now that i have been priced out from something that i loved? man feals like losing a girl you once loved but gotta forget about and move on! lol

billyfly
09-28-2010, 01:06 PM
No James,

Fairweather fans sound more like TFC07.

Macksam
09-28-2010, 01:44 PM
Great point TFC 07. I would cheer for the MLS team that brings the greatest amount of benefit to Canadian soccer. TFC could be on that path, but we'll see.

TFC07
09-28-2010, 02:05 PM
No James,

Fairweather fans sound more like TFC07.

More like not a loser! ML$E is really pushing the limits here. They have no respect for their fanbase at all and pretty much bitch slapping their fanbase and soccer fans in GTA while taking our money for a shit product they have been producing since first season. I don't know about you, but I don't like to get bitch slapped while giving them all my money for their shit job they have doing so far in their history. Unless they change their ways and start respecting the fanbase, I probably end investing less time and money on TFC in the future.


Great point TFC 07. I would cheer for the MLS team that brings the greatest amount of benefit to Canadian soccer. TFC could be on that path, but we'll see.

Thanks.

billyfly
09-28-2010, 02:34 PM
We could go back and forth all day about "support" etc. We could go on about who really "owns" a team etc

In the end I am from Toronto. Born and raised. I can not (even if I tried) support another city's team.

I am not one bit happy with the state of my teams and how MLSE operates.

You can leave Toronto's teams, many in the GTA have. You are a consumer and you can consume what you desire.

I don't agree. Call me partisan or whatever. I support TORONTO

TFC07
09-28-2010, 02:51 PM
We could go back and forth all day about "support" etc. We could go on about who really "owns" a team etc

In the end I am from Toronto. Born and raised. I can not (even if I tried) support another city's team.

I am not one bit happy with the state of my teams and how MLSE operates.

You can leave Toronto's teams, many in the GTA have. You are a consumer and you can consume what you desire.

I don't agree. Call me partisan or whatever. I support TORONTO

Fair enough, but I hope this applies to teams in Europe as well like so many of Toronto supporters support even though majority of them aren't from there.

billyfly
09-28-2010, 02:56 PM
I have a family affiliation to Sporting Portugal but in no way do I live or die by their results nor do I ever fight other Portuguesers in RPB or the boards based on the Portuguese league like some Mancs and Scouse do.

What I am talking about here is following another team that competes with Toronto b/c TFC don't win enough. Just like many have done in regards to the Leafs.

Detroit_TFC
09-28-2010, 03:04 PM
I'm originally from Chicago - I grew up with a variety of sporting futilities to choose from, so I'm well used to it.

I do admit that arguments based in "doing what's good for Canadian soccer" don't have particular currency for me, but since MLS and USL are binational, what's good for Canadian soccer indirectly improves soccer in the US too.

I was drawn to TFC because I'm drawn to Toronto, so I can't see myself just following whoever is top of the table at any particular moment. If we get a team in Detroit, I'm sure I would go to some of those games but would still support TFC.

Anyway, compared to the Detroit Lions, TFC's problems seem moderate. :)

Fort York Redcoat
09-28-2010, 03:06 PM
2. To be honest, I can picture myself becoming a Whitecaps fan.


Great point TFC 07. I would cheer for the MLS team that brings the greatest amount of benefit to Canadian soccer.

Holy Fucking Shit.

From TFCRegina, Twisted, Keystone, and everyone that crosses borders to support this team, I could excuse the infamous "switching" of teams to their locals. God Bless them for their loyalty.

Brampton? Is that further than 75miles away?

And to play the patriot card is the easy way out. If our team isn't doing enough for the country we make them see the error of their ways

not jump ship.

.02

billyfly
09-28-2010, 03:12 PM
Not my intention to cause another thread of sh*tstorming. I just wanted to ask and see reaction to TFC's lack of success.

I have my theory and observations of the modern sports fan and wanted to see how correct it is.

Fort York Redcoat
09-28-2010, 03:20 PM
I have my theory and observations of the modern sports fan and wanted to see how correct it is.


AMSF.

Yep.

ManUtd4ever
09-28-2010, 03:37 PM
Billy, to answer your question from my perspective, I'm similar to you in the sense that I'm a born and raised Torontonian with an unwavering loyalty to all of the local professional sports teams. I used to go to a total of 20-30 Leafs/Raptors/Jays games combined per year religiously. I stopped spending my personal income on those tickets over the last several years because I grew tired of paying to watch an abysmal product. That being said, I still go to a few games a year because I can use my expense account at work to entertain clients. I also catch almost all the games on television.

The only team I have supported financially over the last few years with my disposable income is TFC through seasons tickets and merchandise puchases. However, my patience is wearing thin. I have renewed next season but if the trend of years past continues I will eventually stop attending TFC matches and support the club from a bar or the comfort of my own home, as I now do for all of our other teams.

If any of our local teams become contenders in the future I will gladly start purchasing tickets again...

billyfly
09-28-2010, 04:20 PM
^Supporting and buying tkts are not the same thing. Lots of people have expressed in the 100 other threads that they'd rather support from home. I'm pretty close to that myself.

Roogsy
09-28-2010, 04:22 PM
Not my intention to cause another thread of sh*tstorming.

Who are you kidding? This is what you do!

You're worse than that Roogsy asshole...

pekduck
09-28-2010, 04:23 PM
Who are you kidding? This is what you do!

You're worse than that Roogsy asshole...

:D

you need the :D roogs :rolleyes:

billyfly
09-28-2010, 04:26 PM
I'm just a simple social scientist.

Roogsy
09-28-2010, 04:28 PM
:D

you need the :D roogs :rolleyes:

No...Roogsy really is an asshole. No smilie necessary.





















:D

manic.street.preacher
09-28-2010, 04:52 PM
1-So - What do the 75 mile bastards do? Is it easier for them to walk away from this b/c ultimately its not their hometown team?
2-How many of us will "pick" another MLS team? (LOL....)
3-How many will just go back to their EPL, Serie A, Liga teams and not come back? (Kinda like the CFL and NFL thing in this City)
4-Is soccer at risk at being abandoned by the fan and the media?

1 - TO is not my hometown, not saying it like it's a bad thing, it's just a fact. I'm a Winnipegger through and through and love it out West (though I've spent a lot of time living in various locales all over the country, TO included). However, that being said, there is no way I'm abandoning TFC. I was obsessive about it from the get go, excited that there was gonna be a Canadian club to follow. I was constantly googling for any new information and creeping on the old boards. And now, every success and even every failure is history in the making and I love watching it (and I'm convinced this suffering will be worth it in the long run). Also, I love that TFC has got me more interested in the Canadian national teams, cos friendlies and even Gold Cup never tempted me much before. And I love being an RPB. When I first moved to TO, I didn't know anyone at all but when I went to my first match or moseyed into Joe's for the first time with nothing but my boardname, I was instantly welcomed. The drama round the boards makes me want to pull my hair out most days, but the RPBs that I've met personally are some of the nicest folks I've ever had the pleasure of knowing and I hope that when I make it back to TO (whenever that is), I'll be able to kick back and enjoy a pint with them. In short, as long as there's a team to support, I'm here.

2 - see above ... TFC is the only reason I started paying attention to MLS

3 - see 1 ... Liverpool is the team that got me hooked on soccer and I'm currently loving the Eredivisie, but, again, I'm with TFC for the long haul.

4 - The fairweather fan will abandon, for sure, but I'm an eternal optimist and hope that the FO folks will see the writing on the wall and try to do something about it. And, to be honest, TO sports media is used to covering teams that put out sub-par performences, so I don't think we've got much to worry about there ... but I really think that the only way soccer can go in this country (and in the States) is up. With the addition of Vancouver and Montreal, there'll be more press coverage than ever and our rivalries even more intense ... and Hollywood's keen on soccer too. I was watching a show, can't remember the name now, but the teenage kid in it had this huge Chicago Fire poster in his room and was wearing a shirt that said Germany 74. I had a laugh and thought that maybe ten years ago that Fire poster would've been a Cubs poster, and the Germany shirt, maybe a Bears shirt.

Macksam
09-28-2010, 05:03 PM
Holy Fucking Shit.

From TFCRegina, Twisted, Keystone, and everyone that crosses borders to support this team, I could excuse the infamous "switching" of teams to their locals. God Bless them for their loyalty.

Brampton? Is that further than 75miles away?

And to play the patriot card is the easy way out. If our team isn't doing enough for the country we make them see the error of their ways

not jump ship.

.02
To be a little more specific, TFC would continue to be my number 1 team. However, I would cheer for Vancouver on top on that, and wouldn't dare call them the Shitecaps or wish ill on them based on the work they do.

billyfly
09-28-2010, 05:05 PM
^You Macksam or TFC07?

Macksam
09-28-2010, 10:13 PM
^You Macksam or TFC07?
I am what my username says...

As for the modern sports fan stuff, don't bother. I don't fit that mold. You're talking to a guy who liked Chelsea before the Russian money came in.

billyfly
09-28-2010, 10:17 PM
Did you think I meant literally that you are the same person?

Fortyork Red's post is responding to TFC07 and you responded as if he was responding to your post.

Since you and TFC07 both seem to be from Brampton I made a funny.

Macksam
09-28-2010, 10:19 PM
I just got the vibe your were implying that someone was a sock puppet or something. *shrugs shoulders*

Edit: He also responded to me in that same post.

billyfly
09-28-2010, 10:22 PM
You're right. I did not notice that he did the double quote.

Macksam
09-28-2010, 10:23 PM
It happens.

TFC07
09-28-2010, 11:51 PM
I have a family affiliation to Sporting Portugal but in no way do I live or die by their results nor do I ever fight other Portuguesers in RPB or the boards based on the Portuguese league like some Mancs and Scouse do.

What I am talking about here is following another team that competes with Toronto b/c TFC don't win enough. Just like many have done in regards to the Leafs.

Well in you're in the minority. Point is: in this day and age, it isn't uncommon for sports fans to root for more than one team. You can't make this "Toronto or die" so black and white especially since everything is so globalized in today’s world.

People have their own reasons why they support teams from other different cities. I personally support Toronto first, but at same time it is hard to support a club when management of that club doesn't show their fans any respect. It is hard to be loyal to a club when the club isn't loyal towards you. I have got my reasons of why I don't mind supporting for Vancouver as well. No need to get into details.

GuelphStorm2007
09-29-2010, 01:52 AM
I am not a season ticket holder I usually attend 4 or 5 games a year . And I will always support them trough thick and thin. I am hopeing that we the suppoerters really give ML$E a hard time during the offseason like not renewing seasons tickets etc once they see that then MLSE WILL HAVE A different attitude

billyfly
09-29-2010, 09:06 AM
Well in you're in the minority. Point is: in this day and age, it isn't uncommon for sports fans to root for more than one team. You can't make this "Toronto or die" so black and white especially since everything is so globalized in today’s world.

People have their own reasons why they support teams from other different cities. I personally support Toronto first, but at same time it is hard to support a club when management of that club doesn't show their fans any respect. It is hard to be loyal to a club when the club isn't loyal towards you. I have got my reasons of why I don't mind supporting for Vancouver as well. No need to get into details.

Oh definitely all the points I bolded I agree with.

The modern sports fan is no longer tied to geography or the local club. He/she has many ways to suport from afar.

Not to get reach too much but I compare this in some ways to marriage. Monogamy is dead they say and I think it has a lot to do with "choice" or the "change the channel" attitude that is everywhere.

Beach_Red
09-29-2010, 09:13 AM
Oh definitely all the points I bolded I agree with.

The modern sports fan is no longer tied to geography or the local club. He/she has many ways to suport from afar.

Not to get reach too much but I compare this in some ways to marriage. Monogamy is dead they say and I think it has a lot to do with "choice" or the "change the channel" attitude that is everywhere.

That's certainly one way of looking at it. You could say that people now have the "choice" to realize they made a mistake an not be miserable (and make everyone else miserable) for the rest of their lives.

Which is kind of how I feel supporting an MLSE team ;).

TFC Via Buffalo
09-29-2010, 05:21 PM
Holy Fucking Shit.

From TFCRegina, Twisted, Keystone, and everyone that crosses borders to support this team, I could excuse the infamous "switching" of teams to their locals. God Bless them for their loyalty.

Brampton? Is that further than 75miles away?

And to play the patriot card is the easy way out. If our team isn't doing enough for the country we make them see the error of their ways

not jump ship.

.02

No excuses!!! Bastards will never jump ship. And if any of them do, I'll track them down and kill them myself. (with the 75MB scarf of course.) :D

king dave
09-29-2010, 06:59 PM
As long as MLSE is in charge of this football club, the quality of the football club will not be important.
Sure TFC will make the playoffs at some point down the road and may even win a title or qualify deeper into the CONCACAF Champions League.
But the MLSE is responsible to one of the largest, richest pension funds in North America and $$$ and more of it is all that matters and until they relinquish control of the Leafs, Raptors and TFC there will nver be any consistant winning management in place to compete in this North American market.
KD.

druid
09-29-2010, 07:42 PM
I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if this has already been raised...

The problem, as I see it, is that TFC are playing a short term game as far as their earnings are concerned.

Football, to me, is a generational thing. My family has supported the same football club for three or four generations. TFC does not have the history, cultural draw, or trophies that my family club has. With seat price increases every year, in the worst economy in memory, will I be able to afford to bring my son to games for the next 10 years and see him into the TFC fold? I'd dearly love to do that (at one point I was considering having my section, row and seat numbers tattooed on my body) but there's a question as to whether TFC wants me to. With the price increases they certainly don't act like they want me to.

And without that, they're leaving the next generation of fans to chance. Instead of just worrying about retention, MLSE are risking the necessity of acquiring a whole new set of fans in future that may or may not exist.

And in the end, I'd like my son to be a football fan. Is TFC the best way of doing that? It really doesn't look like it. It's certainly not the cheapest.

billyfly
05-01-2011, 07:48 PM
BUMP

I should add this was a selfish attempt on my part to steal from other threads although it is interesting to see what some people said a year ago and how things have chged or not chged.

billyfly
05-01-2011, 08:01 PM
I should add that at this juncture, I am still with the team.

My civic pride won't allow me to walk away. Next year's STH renewal will be interesting as it was this year (unless there is a miraculous turnaround) amongst the 4 (including) me that hold the row of 4 seats in 112.

I kinda always knew that the talk of "system" was BS so I am not exactly surprised at how sh*t the team looks.