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auncivilized
04-19-2010, 05:14 PM
Im going to be blasted after posting this and everyone has their own opinion but i for one am throwing in the towel for this season,
after the performance on the field, mo's incompitence, preki's bad team morale and today ali gerba sealed the deal for me, i will hold on to my seasons tickets in hopes of better seasons to come but something needs to change and it needs to happen fast but i dont think anything positive will happen until next season, as for all the haters of my post, message me when the season is over and we are no were near the playoffs.

London
04-19-2010, 05:19 PM
not gonna blast you, but giving up already?

give it at least half a season

Ladies Love Julius James
04-19-2010, 05:20 PM
I respect that. Things aren't the same as year one wear tickets were cheaper and people could correctly justify the team's shortcomings using the "expansion team" excuse. I don't accuse you of not supporting anymore, a team that is bad deserves to be supported. A team that is bad because of the short-sightedness of it's owners, the league they play in and the people that operate the team are a whole different degree of homicide and I respect your opinion.

Roogsy
04-19-2010, 05:25 PM
What people do with their own money is their own business. If you're not getting joy out of this, then why spend your money?

This team makes it hard to love them.

wzhxvy
04-19-2010, 05:42 PM
I have to say, sitting at the game last Thursday, watching some of the poorest displays of play and overall quality of the game, I started to question myself whether I was enjoying it or whether it was worth it. At the end of the day, I will stick it out because I love the team and love having one in our city, but my level of rage is rising by the second.

Bombonera
04-19-2010, 05:44 PM
WHat's rough is that the experince is NOT a sobering one... It is of course even more expensive to try to forget this disaster than it was to be able to participate in it in the first place...

auncivilized
04-19-2010, 05:45 PM
we need a statment from the club NOW!
fans need to know what direction this club is taking
they need to cut the bullshit

rocker
04-19-2010, 05:47 PM
if you aren't getting any joy out of it, don't renew your season's tickets this fall. don't hold on to your tickets.

there's a dickhead in my row who has never liked MLS since I started sitting there in 2008. every game he doesn't cheer, doesn't care, criticizes everyone (even Dichio), doesn't ever wear red, but he keeps renewing his tickets. The other day he jokes to his buddy about selling his seasons. I wanted to tell him to do it, and don't renew.

MartinUtd
04-19-2010, 05:55 PM
we need a statment from the club NOW!
fans need to know what direction this club is taking
they need to cut the bullshit

I wouldn't expect any statement from the club except one of complete support for the management in place.

Preki will say "wait and see"
Mo will say "5 year plan"
and Jimmy B will continue to be a company schill

Anything else would be an admission of a half assed job and MLSE isn't going to trash the management while they're in place. Either things will get worse before they get better (aka clean house) or we've yet to realize the genius of Mo Johnston and his wisdom will yet guide us to the playoffs.

auncivilized
04-19-2010, 06:01 PM
if you aren't getting any joy out of it, don't renew your season's tickets this fall. don't hold on to your tickets.

there's a dickhead in my row who has never liked MLS since I started sitting there in 2008. every game he doesn't cheer, doesn't care, criticizes everyone (even Dichio), doesn't ever wear red, but he keeps renewing his tickets. The other day he jokes to his buddy about selling his seasons. I wanted to tell him to do it, and don't renew.

even tho past seasons werent spectacular i enjoyed going to the stadium and i do love the team
i will not sell my tickets and will not give up on this team
but i will give up on this shit show of a season
u sound like your on the gold waiting list looking for more tickets

KezmanCCCC
04-19-2010, 06:05 PM
I don't blame you.

KezmanCCCC
04-19-2010, 06:06 PM
I'll Buy some of ur tickets off you if ur interested in selling. Pm me.

Pookie
04-19-2010, 06:06 PM
not sure of the point of this thread... is it a goodbye thread?

auncivilized
04-19-2010, 06:10 PM
not sure of the point of this thread... is it a goodbye thread?
its a dont have high hopes this season cause its going to be a hard fall thread

nascarguy
04-19-2010, 06:18 PM
if you aren't getting any joy out of it, don't renew your season's tickets this fall. don't hold on to your tickets.

there's a dickhead in my row who has never liked MLS since I started sitting there in 2008. every game he doesn't cheer, doesn't care, criticizes everyone (even Dichio), doesn't ever wear red, but he keeps renewing his tickets. The other day he jokes to his buddy about selling his seasons. I wanted to tell him to do it, and don't renew.

he is there to watch soccer.

Ontario Arab
04-19-2010, 06:23 PM
What people do with their own money is their own business. If you're not getting joy out of this, then why spend your money?

This team makes it hard to love them.

I can understsand that if it was years upon years upon years of success and failure but we have been sub par since day one....there is only one common denominator since day one and we all know who that is..........How many players? (its like a revolving door), How many coaches? (another revolving door)........This year to cap it all off, there seems to be NO ambition or drive either, infact it seems there is a genuine disdain to play for the Club. Mo should go, Preki should go and JDG should be told in no uncertain terms that he is not here to collect a pay packet, he needs to step up or Piss Off.

Batman
04-19-2010, 06:23 PM
I compeletley understand your decision.

Unless more of us stop giving MLSE our cash why the hell should we expect a change.

FOR NOW, I'LL KEEP MY TICKETS, BUT I REFUSE TO SPEND A DIME IN THE STADIUM UNTIL MO IS GONE.

Section 110
04-19-2010, 06:24 PM
Im going to be blasted after posting this and everyone has their own opinion but i for one am throwing in the towel for this season,
after the performance on the field, mo's incompitence, preki's bad team morale and today ali gerba sealed the deal for me, i will hold on to my seasons tickets in hopes of better seasons to come but something needs to change and it needs to happen fast but i dont think anything positive will happen until next season, as for all the haters of my post, message me when the season is over and we are no were near the playoffs.


I'm not throwing the towel in yet; but I'm not just worried about TFC, I'm worried about the league. Sunday's game was the worst soccer I have sat through in memory. We all accept the fact that this is not Serie A or La Liga or EPL, but paint drying was equally as exciting as Sunday. Neither team appeared interested in or capable of moving the ball beyond centre half, and I don't buy a "tactical" argument. The ineptness of both teams (Colorado was only marginally better) should be of concern; once you get below the best 4-6 teams, these are USL clubs at best. My buddy and I were going to go down to the ACC this week and get the new white jerseys but both of us were so turned off after the Rapids game, we've agreed that it may not be worth it... I mean I can buy the jersey for a team that actually plays the game for the same price. TFC FO should take note - I'm not giving up on my team but boy! Sunday was not football. It was an exercise in sheer futility. Disgusting.

J .
04-19-2010, 06:28 PM
Im going to be blasted after posting this and everyone has their own opinion but i for one am throwing in the towel for this season,
after the performance on the field, mo's incompitence, preki's bad team morale and today ali gerba sealed the deal for me, i will hold on to my seasons tickets in hopes of better seasons to come but something needs to change and it needs to happen fast but i dont think anything positive will happen until next season, as for all the haters of my post, message me when the season is over and we are no were near the playoffs.


Can I buy your seasons from you?

King Jeff
04-19-2010, 06:35 PM
I have to say, sitting at the game last Thursday, watching some of the poorest displays of play and overall quality of the game, I started to question myself whether I was enjoying it or whether it was worth it.

Yup.

gtaguy
04-19-2010, 06:36 PM
Can't criticize you of your actions.. i have been contemplating the same and would love to just try to enjoy the summer in the least amount of stress possible. I love this club but also feel the same way when it comes to feeling down about the club.. Not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel yet i know better days will come again and No Mo in sight makes me feel very hopeful.. Growing Pains sucks balls especially when your caretaker is a shit ass nanny that seems to think this is a total joke.

Pookie
04-19-2010, 06:42 PM
I compeletley understand your decision.

Unless more of us stop giving MLSE our cash why the hell should we expect a change.

FOR NOW, I'LL KEEP MY TICKETS, BUT I REFUSE TO SPEND A DIME IN THE STADIUM UNTIL MO IS GONE.

Respectfully, I think you miss the mark with respect to change.

MLSE has shown time and time again that they are very much concerned about profitability. Not long term profit either. Short term, make money now.

Playoffs are good for business.

Investing in long term strategies (such as an expanded, top notch scouting staff) is not sexy nor does it contribute to short term profits.

If you think a boycott will get you real change.. such as an expanded top notch scouting staff... you are fooling yourself. MLSE wants band aids. Just make the money and deliver results. As an example, it's why we have had more coaches than full seasons. There is no patience there. Patience costs money. Fix the problem, fix it now and they really don't care how it's fixed as long as they can sell extra tickets.

These are the band-aids your boycott would buy:

- Without any emphasis on a top notch scouting staff, it might also get you a high profile yet unproductive Designated Player.... you know, like De Guzman.

- It might get you a new Manager who will step into his office and notice all the "First Wave" business cards laying around.

- It might get you our 5th new head coach in 4 seasons.

There is only one thing you can be sure of if you choose not to renew and that is a place on the Red Waiting List. So, if you choose to give up your seats. All the power to you but please have an idea of what you are giving them up for.

dupont
04-19-2010, 06:46 PM
There is no way in hell I will stop going. I don't hate the players, I want to support them. I am incredibly angry at Mo for putting together a team that isn't good enough but I want players to know that they can come to this city and be supported. I will support them through these tough early years and later on when the club achieves success (presumably after MO is fired)

Bombonera
04-19-2010, 07:06 PM
We all want to support the players, and I think most of them recognize that this is their chance to play pro sports; a true priviledge..

But the fact that we are now at game 5, and I for one still have no friggin idea what this team is about, is a bit disconcerting.

Seattle year 2 comes to town this sunday. Unless the boys experince some sort of catharctic moment this week AND the gods show up as they did against Philly, we are going to get spanked. And while the boys don't deserve that, the team does.

First excuse, explansion side, then turf, then the coach, now the CBA. THere is no way I would be employed if I was that full of s...t!

rocker
04-19-2010, 07:07 PM
u sound like your on the gold waiting list looking for more tickets

I sound like what??? say that again?

My season ticket bill was almost $2000 for two seats in 2010 (I sit in 125). Where do you sit?

Are you the guy in my row who never wears red and complains that the quality isn't as good as La Liga and Dichio was shit?

If so, lemme give you some advice: stop complaining and don't renew your season's. Thanks.

People are always complaining that MLSE thinks of them just in $$$$ terms. Well then giving them money every year is idiotic. Don't do it. Cuz whining about paying for season's tickets and then continually renewing your season's tickets is crazy. They'll get the point when enough people don't renew.

Bombonera
04-19-2010, 07:13 PM
I agree with Rocker, if you (whoever you are) don't like it, don't appreciate havng a mls, a decent stadiumm and a team to call our own, give it up. The Marlies are always looking for new fans.

But don't keep messing with everyone else's fun (or torture of choice)

MartinUtd
04-19-2010, 07:18 PM
I took this post as a "this year is going to suck but I'll stick it out for the love of the team" not a proclamation that "I'm done with this shit." People need to relax.

torontocelt
04-19-2010, 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by wzhxvy http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=986583#post986583)
I have to say, sitting at the game last Thursday, watching some of the poorest displays of play and overall quality of the game, I started to question myself whether I was enjoying it or whether it was worth it.


There were games last season when I thought the same. When you are looking at your watch after 30 mins and considering leaving at half time then you know you are not watching good football. I always stay, I find that drink helps a lot in the 'enjoyment' of the football on offer. My expectations are so low now though that it doesn't piss me off as much, I know that they are shit, once you accept they are shit it doesn't seem so bad. TFC the experience is all about friends getting together, going for a few drinks and then going to the football, rarely is it about the football on display. I now feel as though I have a vested interest in the team, I love football, I love watching football and I have a season ticket, the only way I will give mine up is if the prices go up again or I cannot move down in price. I really hope the club starts to improve.

Batman
04-19-2010, 07:52 PM
Respectfully, I think you miss the mark with respect to change.

MLSE has shown time and time again that they are very much concerned about profitability. Not long term profit either. Short term, make money now.

Playoffs are good for business.

Investing in long term strategies (such as an expanded, top notch scouting staff) is not sexy nor does it contribute to short term profits.

If you think a boycott will get you real change.. such as an expanded top notch scouting staff... you are fooling yourself. MLSE wants band aids. Just make the money and deliver results. As an example, it's why we have had more coaches than full seasons. There is no patience there. Patience costs money. Fix the problem, fix it now and they really don't care how it's fixed as long as they can sell extra tickets.

These are the band-aids your boycott would buy:

- Without any emphasis on a top notch scouting staff, it might also get you a high profile yet unproductive Designated Player.... you know, like De Guzman.

- It might get you a new Manager who will step into his office and notice all the "First Wave" business cards laying around.

- It might get you our 5th new head coach in 4 seasons.

There is only one thing you can be sure of if you choose not to renew and that is a place on the Red Waiting List. So, if you choose to give up your seats. All the power to you but please have an idea of what you are giving them up for.

I think you misunderstood my point. I said I'd keep my tickets but not spend anything else at the stadium until Mo was gone. So I don't quite understand what you were trying to say regarding my action.

Pachuco
04-19-2010, 07:57 PM
Don't blame anybody that stops showing up. I personally wouldn't know what to do with myself if it's game day and I'm sitting at home watching the game on TV. But if other people aren't getting the enjoyment out of it then you can't blame them can you?

Cashcleaner
04-19-2010, 08:00 PM
I can't really fault anyone who may have given up on this team. I have a similar rule of thumb myself. Basically, I'll support my team for as long as I think the ownership is committed to a building and maintaining a winning team. So far though, I gotta admit I really don't know what's going on in the minds of MLSE/TFC at times.

I think the real test of many people's loyalties will be over who is selected to replace Mo and what sort of leeway they will be given in terms of control of the club and roster.

FluSH
04-19-2010, 08:03 PM
he is there to watch soccer.

nascar is that you?

Nerepis
04-19-2010, 08:07 PM
its a dont have high hopes this season cause its going to be a hard fall thread

I'm not sure how it can be a "hard fall" since judging by player apathy and supported discontent we are already at the bottom. Tho, if Mo and Preki keep working on the hole they appear to be digging, maybe we'll fall into that. But, judging by the mood around here, everyone sees what they're doing. No one is falling any time soon.

Hopefully the "hole" ends up being their own grave. "Dig a hole and bury them" Then with a couple of new hires at or near the top, we can finally start building a team instead of just patching holes.

Beach_Red
04-19-2010, 08:08 PM
I think you misunderstood my point. I said I'd keep my tickets but not spend anything else at the stadium until Mo was gone. So I don't quite understand what you were trying to say regarding my action.


You might as well have a couple of beers and enjoy the day out. Unless it's personal and you just don't like Mo, this is about the best they can do. Soccer, basketball, hockey, this is it. Oh sure, they'll get different managers over the years and once in a while the team will make a run and they might even get lucky one year and go all the way. But that's all it'll be, luck.

It's not like the guys running MLSE aren't trying as hard as they can. As people keep pointing out, they want that playoff money - in all three sports.

nascarguy
04-19-2010, 08:49 PM
I compeletley understand your decision.

Unless more of us stop giving MLSE our cash why the hell should we expect a change.

FOR NOW, I'LL KEEP MY TICKETS, BUT I REFUSE TO SPEND A DIME IN THE STADIUM UNTIL MO IS GONE.
that is the same for me

Jose Mourinho
04-19-2010, 08:55 PM
I can't blame you. Many people will be doing the same and you will soon see BMO Field empty. Soccer in this town does not have the support that hockey does, therefore; you will soon see support dwindle.

I am surprised that as of yet MLSE has not noticed and at least bought themselves a little time by allowing the ax to fall on Mo Johnson. It seems to me that they are unaware of his incompetency or TFC does not register on their radar altogether.

Pookie
04-19-2010, 08:57 PM
^ so what you are saying is that people will still buy season tickets... stay away... and this will have an impact... how?

Or are you saying that people are really prepared to drop down to the Red Wait list?

Jose Mourinho
04-19-2010, 09:01 PM
I am saying that the non season ticket holding demographic will soon stay away from BMO Field. Season ticket holders alone will not fill the stadium.

When the full stadium atmosphere is gone, it will snowball. Fewer and fewer people will come. Part of the attraction to coming to a TFC game is the atmosphere. The atmosphere may be great in 110-113 and 127 but empty seats will take from that. We will start to look like Colorado soon.

tfcleeds
04-19-2010, 09:07 PM
I understand the decision. Does still planning on going to matches mean I have brain damage, or am I just drinking the MLSE Kool-aid? Hey, I'm a Leeds supporter, so I guess I've gotten used to mediocrity.

sully
04-19-2010, 09:10 PM
I don't blame you for having enough. For me it's not about lack of success, it's about the fact that just the feeling there's so much BS around this club...you know have a squad ready for the season, seeming lack of respect for players, bad decisions by Mo so often, prices keep going up, quality of football isn't getting better, sporadic weird ideas like 'wall of honour' - Dichio not on it?, no tactical prowess on the field, scheduling games that clash with national games - OK that's MLS decision but annoying...

jazzy
04-19-2010, 09:19 PM
Don't blame anybody that stops showing up. I personally wouldn't know what to do with myself if it's game day and I'm sitting at home watching the game on TV. But if other people aren't getting the enjoyment out of it then you can't blame them can you?

Ya true....they are probably smarter than me but TFC is where I've chosen to lay my hat......and think, I get frustrated at leaf fans....I've joined the party......but TFC fans are just THE best...Soccer is just THE game....I'd like to think I'm not a fairweather fan.......There is too much heart in this game for us to fail in the long term........and unfortunately no matter how great we the fans are........ we still can't win the games for TFC...They /MLSE will have to find their own way....

FluSH
04-19-2010, 09:21 PM
Where are the Parkdale feel good threads... I need one right now?!

Brooker
04-19-2010, 10:53 PM
atmosphere may be great in 110-113 and 127 but empty seats will take from that. We will start to look like Colorado soon.

there are a lot of reasons this will never happen in the near future. people are really starting to take this to extremes. as long as we play competetive at home half the time, the place will still be relatively full. we are a completely different team at home than we are on the road.

it may be dark and rainy.... but the sky is not falling.

as far as the original post... okay, so somebody doesn't want to support his team when the going gets tough. i can understand that, i really can. the football is pretty dreadful. but personally i could never stop watching. its my team.

Cashcleaner
04-20-2010, 07:06 AM
I don't blame you for having enough. For me it's not about lack of success, it's about the fact that just the feeling there's so much BS around this club...you know have a squad ready for the season, seeming lack of respect for players, bad decisions by Mo so often, prices keep going up, quality of football isn't getting better, sporadic weird ideas like 'wall of honour' - Dichio not on it?, no tactical prowess on the field, scheduling games that clash with national games - OK that's MLS decision but annoying...

You know what? Time and time again, most supporters will tell you first and foremost that we're not upset over just losing a few games. Or even losing in general. I know we all feel disappointed when we lose a match and will offer up some healthy criticism because of it, but for the most part, we're okay with the ups and downs that come with regular season play. Instead, the points I've highlighted are what's really driving people up the wall it seems.

We can dealing with losing. We're just having a hard time dealing with everything else. Fuck, we need a win badly!

ecospice
04-20-2010, 07:42 AM
I compeletley understand your decision.

Unless more of us stop giving MLSE our cash why the hell should we expect a change.

FOR NOW, I'LL KEEP MY TICKETS, BUT I REFUSE TO SPEND A DIME IN THE STADIUM UNTIL MO IS GONE.

I tried that against Philly at the home opener. It basically lasted 10 minutes, then I needed beer to help me take the edge off what was going on down on the pitch...

Fort York Redcoat
04-20-2010, 07:42 AM
This is not a protest thread.
This is not a goodbye thread.

What the hell is it? We're all frustrated in general thread? We needed to explore that?

lintberg
04-20-2010, 07:50 AM
I am a supporter and that said will always hang on to my season tickets. Having come form lLondon and supported Arsenal all my life...I'm used to ups and downs with my team...LOL!

I did observe at the home opener a lot of people in my section (top of 109), looking at not renewing for next year if the team fails to improve. It is total cause for concern and MLSE need to address the issues before the lose a ton of renewals next year.

flatpicker
04-20-2010, 08:01 AM
It is a difficult situation.

Nobody likes spending money on a product when the return is not worth the price.
That happens in sport.... teams will have bad seasons.
The hard part for us is that we have seen nothing but bad seasons.
And add to that the poor play of other Toronto teams, fans are sick and tired of losing... and mismanagement.

But then giving up season tickets is tricky because there is still that hope that things will turn around.
Leafs management can rest easy because people will not easily give up on tickets there.
But TFC should really be concerned... people will lose patience with a losing team in a subpar league.

When you see the effect that the arrival of Toronto has had on the rest of the league,
It's clear that success here is not just important to us fans, but to MLS as a whole.
If MLS' "golden child" starts to fail, what will that say to other fans in the league?

MLSE needs to look at the big picture,
Getting fans in year one was easy,
but getting fans back after they have given up on the bad product will be a difficult task.

Davenport
04-20-2010, 08:01 AM
I am a supporter and that said will always hang on to my season tickets. Having come form lLondon and supported Arsenal all my life...I'm used to ups and downs with my team...LOL!

I did observe at the home opener a lot of people in my section (top of 109), looking at not renewing for next year if the team fails to improve. It is total cause for concern and MLSE need to address the issues before the lose a ton of renewals next year.

I'd like to know where you rank TFC when you think watching Arsenal has been so hard.....

McBrace
04-20-2010, 08:05 AM
I thought that the WC would have a positive effect on the MLS and TFC, but now I wonder if it will have a negative one.. Imagine watching top quality all morning and then sitting and watching TFC in the late afternoon??? Most of understand this reality, but will the general public?

lintberg
04-20-2010, 08:10 AM
It is comparing apples and oranges.
But for many years back in the 70's Arsenal could be pretty frustrating to watch. But enjoyable none the less
TFC is very very different, I really do enjoy watching/supporting them and attending all home and some away games.



I'd like to know where you rank TFC when you think watching Arsenal has been so hard.....

DangerRed
04-20-2010, 08:10 AM
I'm not dropping a dime in the stadium until some things change*. MLSE normally gets about $30 out of me a match. No more.

* = we make the playoffs, Mo or not.

mastermixer
04-20-2010, 08:11 AM
I am positive you will see a lot more empty seats this year. Home opener was packed and that is expected for any sport but if this team continues to shit the bed I can't imagine the average fan will invest their afternoon to watch this crap. I am a rabid TFC fan and its hard for me to get excited about the upcoming games.

KRO
04-20-2010, 08:58 AM
i for one am throwing in the towel for this season
Of course you are entitled to stop coming to the games.

Having said that this is only the 4th season. Yes, they are a very bad team right now and I don't see much hope this year but one day they will be a good team and will win it all.

For those of us who stick with them through thick and thin, it will be a proud day. For you bandwagon jumpers (and I'm sure you'll be back by then) it will not.

Beach_Red
04-20-2010, 08:59 AM
When you see the effect that the arrival of Toronto has had on the rest of the league,
It's clear that success here is not just important to us fans, but to MLS as a whole.
If MLS' "golden child" starts to fail, what will that say to other fans in the league?




Last year's news. Two years ago - a lifetime in today's media cycle.

The league gave us DeRo, they did all they can, all they're going to.

TFC hasn't been the "golden child" since Seattle played its first game. It's all about, "What have you done for me lately."

Now, if TFC went out and made a big DP signing....

Pachuco
04-20-2010, 09:18 AM
Of course you are entitled to stop coming to the games.

Having said that this is only the 4th season. Yes, they are a very bad team right now and I don't see much hope this year but one day they will be a good team and will win it all.

For those of us who stick with them through thick and thin, it will be a proud day. For you bandwagon jumpers (and I'm sure you'll be back by then) it will not.

When the Leaf's finally win the stanley cup, it will be a very proud day (If I live to see it). I haven't watched a full Leaf's game in three seasons. I really don't think it would stop me from enjoying a good run late into the playoffs. I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but I see no problem with bandwagon jumping. I do it with the Leafs, Raptors and Jays. TFC is the only team I own season tickets to and the only team I would go watch regardless of the product. I love soccer more then any other sport, that is why. But really, why can't I enjoy a Leaf's cup win as much as the guy who's been misreable for the last 3 years? And who judges how much enjoyment I would get out of it? I would argue that if I went to a Leaf's game (becuase I got free tickets, I'll never pay) that I would get more enjoyment out of it then someone who has stuck with them through these bad times. People in that case are typically quite jaded, look at me with TFC, all I do is complain and I have a harder time enjoying myself at the games. I wish I was oblivious to all the politics going on like my wife. Not sure if that makes sense, but that's how I feel.

I personally would never bash someone for bandwagon jumping.

olegunnar
04-20-2010, 09:18 AM
if you aren't getting any joy out of it, don't renew your season's tickets this fall. don't hold on to your tickets.


The "you don't like it, then don't buy tickets" argument is flawed.

The issue is, if you sell your tickets...you forfeit your voice. Some people care very deeply about their team, and get pissed that it's being so badly mismanaged and is an embarassment (Ha look at those loser drunks, they'll cheer for that? they'll cheer anything as long as there are beers for sale!).

You want to be able to influence change? You want to be able to try and hold people accountable? You have to be a paying customer...if you're not a paying customer...you're a nobody.

So we renew (so we have a voice, as small as it may be), rather than walk away.

Parkdale
04-20-2010, 09:52 AM
^ you have a serious crush.

flatpicker
04-20-2010, 09:56 AM
Last year's news. Two years ago - a lifetime in today's media cycle.

The league gave us DeRo, they did all they can, all they're going to.

TFC hasn't been the "golden child" since Seattle played its first game. It's all about, "What have you done for me lately."

Now, if TFC went out and made a big DP signing....


I do realize that Toronto has been replaced as the league "favourite" ever since Seattle's arrival, and now Philly perhaps.

My point though, if Toronto was such a beacon of hope for this league and the sport,
But then TFC falters and fans lose interest,
That would demonstrate how fragile the game is in North America.
What if Seattle starts being garbage? Or Philly.
It's this group of new teams that are bringing in a lot of new fans and creating buzz.
But if they don't have success, that could really hurt the league.
Teams like Toronto, Seattle, Philly, (also NY with it's new arena), and soon Vancouver, can only ride the novelty train so long.
The league needs these new clubs to maintain that fan base,
It needs them to survive.

Toronto is still important to the health of MLS... and vice versa.
MLSE really should be doing more to provide fans with a winning team.

Parkdale
04-20-2010, 10:02 AM
Toronto is still important to the health of MLS... and vice versa.
MLSE really should be doing more to provide fans with a winning team.


http://www.cksinfo.com/clipart/fantasyandmythology/fairytales/Simpleton-finds-The-Golden-Goose.png


I know that when TFC was initially established, the people running things (Paul B specifically) said that they wanted to make a serious contender. They wanted a team that would make the playoffs consistently, and be one of the 'teams to watch / teams to fear' in the league. I wish this actually happened. Unfortunately TFC is hard to watch at times, and you know that other teams and other supporters see us an an easy 3 points. that's the most painfull part.

KRO
04-20-2010, 10:13 AM
When the Leaf's finally win the stanley cup, it will be a very proud day (If I live to see it). I haven't watched a full Leaf's game in three seasons. I really don't think it would stop me from enjoying a good run late into the playoffs. I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but I see no problem with bandwagon jumping. I do it with the Leafs, Raptors and Jays. TFC is the only team I own season tickets to and the only team I would go watch regardless of the product. I love soccer more then any other sport, that is why. But really, why can't I enjoy a Leaf's cup win as much as the guy who's been misreable for the last 3 years? And who judges how much enjoyment I would get out of it? I would argue that if I went to a Leaf's game (becuase I got free tickets, I'll never pay) that I would get more enjoyment out of it then someone who has stuck with them through these bad times. People in that case are typically quite jaded, look at me with TFC, all I do is complain and I have a harder time enjoying myself at the games. I wish I was oblivious to all the politics going on like my wife. Not sure if that makes sense, but that's how I feel.

I personally would never bash someone for bandwagon jumping.
I followed the Jays in the early nineties when they were winning. I was at the Skydome watching on the big screen when they beat Atlanta for the World Series in 1992. I don't think I've been to a game in the last 5 years and hardly ever watch them in TV. If they start winning again I'll probably watch them more so maybe I'm a bandwagon jumper when it comes to baseball.

But baseball is not my sport of choice. I never had a Blue Jays car flag or bumper sticker or mini shirt hanging from my rear view mirror and I never went to a game wearing a team shirt like I do with TFC. If the Jays win again I'll enjoy it but I'll know in my own mind that I'm not a real fan.

Soccer is my passion so I could never imagine abandoning my team just because they are useless. I've had to live with supporting a mostly useless team back in England most of my life so when they have any success at all I feel great. I've also got used to enjoying the game day experience whether they win or lose.

So, I'm not really bashing bandwagon jumpers I'm just saying that for me the experience of winning when it does happen for TFC will be much better because I've stuck with them through the rough times. If you can come and go and still feel 'proud' then good for you.

Beach_Red
04-20-2010, 10:21 AM
Toronto is still important to the health of MLS... and vice versa.
MLSE really should be doing more to provide fans with a winning team.

Yes, they should be doing more. I have finally accepted the fact that they want to win, they just can't. They actually do think they're doing everything they can in three sports to build winning teams. They really just don't have what it takes to be winners.

rocker
04-20-2010, 10:23 AM
But if they don't have success, that could really hurt the league.
Teams like Toronto, Seattle, Philly, (also NY with it's new arena), and soon Vancouver, can only ride the novelty train so long.
The league needs these new clubs to maintain that fan base,
It needs them to survive.

But not all teams can succeed. It's a zero sum game, league play.

Yes, this "novelty" can drive things only so far. But If Seattle were to win the league every year, that means Vancouver cannot. If Seattle, Vancouver, Philly, LA, and NY dominate the league every year, that's great for the fans in those cities (at least they are close). But it means KC, San Jose, CHivas, Houston etc cannot do as well.

This is why parity is the best option. You can't have 16 teams winning the league every year, so it's best to have 16 teams in contention every year, even if the "high" teams are not as high as in the other leagues.

Think about it this way: What if they started moving the lower attended teams to "big markets" like Philly/Seattle (if any remain in the US). At some point you'd have a league full of great markets. But somebody has to finish last, right? How do you keep up the fan base if you finish last?

Beach_Red
04-20-2010, 10:26 AM
But not all teams can succeed. It's a zero sum game, league play.

Yes, this "novelty" can drive things only so far. But If Seattle were to win the league every year, that means Vancouver cannot. If Seattle, Vancouver, Philly, LA, and NY dominate the league every year, that's great for the fans in those cities (at least they are close). But it means KC, San Jose, CHivas, Houston etc cannot do as well.

This is why parity is the best option. You can't have 16 teams winning the league every year, so it's best to have 16 teams in contention every year, even if the "high" teams are not as high as in the other leagues.

Even in parity leagues some teams dominate. The Pttsburgh Steelers have been consistently better than Detroit or Kansas City. The top 4-5 teams may change over time, but there are never 16 realistic Super Bowl contenders four games into the season.

So, will TFC become the Steelers or the Lions?

flatpicker
04-20-2010, 10:29 AM
But not all teams can succeed. It's a zero sum game, league play.

Yes, this "novelty" can drive things only so far. But If Seattle were to win the league every year, that means Vancouver cannot. If Seattle, Vancouver, Philly, LA, and NY dominate the league every year, that's great for the fans in those cities (at least they are close). But it means KC, San Jose, CHivas, Houston etc cannot do as well.

This is why parity is the best option. You can't have 16 teams winning the league every year, so it's best to have 16 teams in contention every year, even if the "high" teams are not as high as in the other leagues.

I've never bought into the "full parity" model.
I think it actually removes a certain amount of drama from the game.

I'm not saying that the opposite is better...
MLB is a little silly with the complete dominance of a few teams with big money.
Even so, just look at how many more tickets are sold when big clubs like NY roll into town.

But if you have league where some teams can obtain a slight advantage because of monitary success, that creates more "stories".
People like underdogs and giant killers.
Having a big team to hate is always nice for a league.

In MLS, if cities like Toronto, NY, Seattle, and LA, could spend a little more,
I think it would actually be better for the entertainment value of the league as a whole.

Beach_Red
04-20-2010, 10:33 AM
In MLS, if cities like Toronto, NY, Seattle, and LA, could spend a little more,
I think it would actually be better for the entertainment value of the league as a whole.


Yes, and that's why the number of DPs has been increased to three. The teams are allowed to spend more. So far they've chosen not to, but that will change.

flatpicker
04-20-2010, 10:36 AM
Yes, and that's why the number of DPs has been increased to three. The teams are allowed to spend more. So far they've chosen not to, but that will change.


True...
But I think success depends on whether they have the allocation money to compensate for the hit to the cap.

Though I think any clever MLS GM should be able to make that work.

There really is no excuse for Toronto to not have 3 DP's by mid season.
If they don't, then it is all because of poor management... and we know who would be to blame for that.

jabbronies
04-20-2010, 10:37 AM
instead of giving up, why not use your supporters energy to protest the teams poor play? And i don't mean by walking out of a game.

Don Julio
04-20-2010, 10:37 AM
For the first time ever last week I wasn't giddy on my approach to the stadium, and I'll tell you, it's not down to the results on the field. I'm a life-long Leafs fan - I can enjoy watching and supporting a shit team.

It's the god damned circus this club has become. It's a fucking embarrassment. The constant ebb and flow of "players", the obvious in-fighting and power struggles between coaches and manager, the locker room issues, the constant bullshit and lies to the supporters, constantly spending our cap space on players that have been released.

I really can't remember the last decision that actually made sense from a footballing point of view.

I'll continue to go, of course, but every time I watch this club it it's current shambolic state a little piece of me dies.

Don Julio
04-20-2010, 10:39 AM
Yes, and that's why the number of DPs has been increased to three. The teams are allowed to spend more. So far they've chosen not to, but that will change.

How is 3 DP defensive mids going to make the overall entertainment value of our team and the league better?

Beach_Red
04-20-2010, 10:43 AM
True...
But I think success depends on whether they have the allocation money to compensate for the hit to the cap.

Though I think any clever MLS GM should be able to make that work.

There really is no excuse for Toronto to not have 3 DP's by mid season.
If they don't, then it is all because of poor management... and we know who would be to blame for that.

Do we? Here we have a guy who's accused of paying too much for players but didn't sign a DP until two and half seasons in. That's inconsistent. Now, all the team has to do is pay the league $250,000 and they get to sign another. Why wouldn't the overspending GM do that?

Of course, now that he's a lame duck there won't b any spending this season.

All we can hope is that the next GM makes it part of his contract negotiation that he gets to sign more DPs.

rocker
04-20-2010, 11:08 AM
But if you have league where some teams can obtain a slight advantage because of monitary success, that creates more "stories".
People like underdogs and giant killers.
Having a big team to hate is always nice for a league.
In MLS, if cities like Toronto, NY, Seattle, and LA, could spend a little more,
I think it would actually be better for the entertainment value of the league as a whole.

I don't think it creates "more" stories. Does the Yankees monetary advantage create "more" stories for the Kansas City Royals? I don't think so. It creates more interest in the Yankees!

Secondly, what you mean by "slight" and a "little more". The devil is in the details. Toronto, NY, Seattle, and LA already can take advantage of 3 DPs if they like. KC and San Jose may not have the wherewithal to use that advantage (I dunno).

Stories that drive interest in the league do not have to be simply from big teams that have the most money. Cleveland in the NBA draws great interest on the road -- why? Lebron James. He's a massive story all by himself, not because Cleveland spends more than anyone else, but because he's a great talent.

Secondly, in Canada the Maple Leafs are a "hated" team by many (see: Montreal). Toronto can't spend more than anyone else, and they suck, but they are still hated. I think "stories" come from culture of the team, from creating rivalries between teams. Not from money disadvantage.

flatpicker
04-20-2010, 11:21 AM
^ the problem with comparing MLS to other North American leagues is that those leagues are the best in the world.

Sure, Lebron James is a massive story all by himself.
But MLS isn't gonna have massive stars playing in their prime years.

This league has to deal with average talent.
So it needs to create buzz and stories in other ways.

Perhaps the DP situation will improve that... I hope it does.
I hope Mo has enough left over in his bag of tricks to pull this together.

auncivilized
04-20-2010, 04:11 PM
I sound like what??? say that again?

My season ticket bill was almost $2000 for two seats in 2010 (I sit in 125). Where do you sit?

Are you the guy in my row who never wears red and complains that the quality isn't as good as La Liga and Dichio was shit?

If so, lemme give you some advice: stop complaining and don't renew your season's. Thanks.

People are always complaining that MLSE thinks of them just in $$$$ terms. Well then giving them money every year is idiotic. Don't do it. Cuz whining about paying for season's tickets and then continually renewing your season's tickets is crazy. They'll get the point when enough people don't renew.

i sit in 121
row 11 seats 5,6,7,8
come say hello next game
i dare you

SuperTCP
04-20-2010, 04:17 PM
if you aren't getting any joy out of it, don't renew your season's tickets this fall. don't hold on to your tickets.

there's a dickhead in my row who has never liked MLS since I started sitting there in 2008. every game he doesn't cheer, doesn't care, criticizes everyone (even Dichio), doesn't ever wear red, but he keeps renewing his tickets. The other day he jokes to his buddy about selling his seasons. I wanted to tell him to do it, and don't renew.


Does he sit in 107?

If not his twin sit up top of 107 - and everytime Dichio scored last season we would rub it in his face.

denime
04-20-2010, 04:23 PM
instead of giving up, why not use your supporters energy to protest the teams poor play? And i don't mean by walking out of a game.

The most used word on TFC supporters sites.:facepalm:

Krasno.pL.
04-20-2010, 04:24 PM
i sit in 121
row 11 seats 5,6,7,8
come say hello next game
i dare you

Tough Guys LOVE IT

Yeoman
04-20-2010, 04:28 PM
Tough Guys LOVE IT

i think i might just go over to say hi, give me something to do

Krasno.pL.
04-20-2010, 04:36 PM
i think i might just go over to say hi, give me something to do

Lmao i dont get people man..
Be a man.. have a fucking beer and talk about it.
Stop making threats over the net. LOL I DARE YOU... *ShiversinBoots*

The K-Man!
04-20-2010, 04:43 PM
Lmao i dont get people man..
Be a man.. have a fucking beer and talk about it.
Stop making threats over the net. LOL I DARE YOU... *ShiversinBoots*

Agreed. Internet threats...really????

Oldtimer
04-20-2010, 04:48 PM
This thread is not going anywhere positive. It's time to close it. (auncivilized has been given a time out from the board).