JDG - not as good as i thought

[trane]

i ve just seen the highlits ..the 2 goal is ridicolous..there s something wrong .
Team grants too many goals (2,5 for match, too high),you were complaining about preki from the preseason ,obviously you were right, i think that he s not the right coach .At this point you try to sign zeman as coach , he s free,he s cheap,he s able to learn to guys "the basics",he know how to valorize young players.The only thing that you don t like ,it s that he plays with a 4-3-3,but you ll love him.

Zeman is old. I am not sure he would want to coach. Plus no way he is on TFC radar.


I was happy they brought in Preki, just that so far he has not shown alot.

[Vecchia Guardia]

Zeman is old. I am not sure he would want to coach. Plus no way he is on TFC radar.

why not try then?do you want still preki?
In the 1992-93 season decided (we are speaking about foggia, foggia WAS in serie A), in agreement with the company to completely dismantle the team that had done so well in previous years, refounded it with unknown players coming largely from C1 and C2.

Among the general astonishment , the team reuse to save in advance, removing also the satisfaction of defeating Juventus 2-1 at home.

[trane]

^ Do not write in Italian here. People need to understand.

[BC101]

why not try then?do you want still preki?
Nella stagione 1992-93 decise(we are speaking about foggia, and foggia was in serie A), in accordo con la società, di smantellare completamente la squadra che tanto bene aveva fatto negli anni precedenti, rifondandola con calciatori sconosciuti e provenienti in buona parte della C1 e dalla C2.

Tra lo stupore generale la squadra riusì a salvarsi con anticipo, togliendosi anche la soddisfazione di sconfiggere la Juventus 2-1 in casa.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[English Rachel]

Alright time to call a spade a spade. He's tanking it.

The charade started before he even landed here. He was going nowhere in Europe and came here out of desperation. Since then he's been here to do nothing but collect his pay-cheque. To start things he thinks he's TFC's Messi and could get away with murder, that ain't the case and they showed this by benching him after late night partying, well done. Second he thinks he's a fucking fairy with his fancy footwork. It won't work in this league, it ain't La Liga the fancy footwork gets chopped down. Lost the ball countless times. Finally, he jumps out the way of a FK for only God knows why. If I were his teammate I'd get in his face in that changeroom and tear him a new asshole, nothing more than a disrespectful pussy. He's shitting on those who actually work their asses off. He's here to get paid and go home and it's been showed numerous times. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

agreed :)

[Vecchia Guardia]

^ Do not write in Italian here. People need to understand.
tried to translate it

[trane]

^ You are going to give BC a heart attack.

[Vecchia Guardia]

ahah the old dear ***** miner , but seriusly , you must chang something

[BC101]

ahah the old dear ***** miner , but seriusly , you must chang something
man fuck you LOL seriously. Fucking fuck off.

[Vecchia Guardia]

(lol)x2 brb

[BC101]

(lol)x2 brb
cut the fucking crap. Dont think I didn't see yer wank ass poll either M.F. Anyways back ontopic. Sorry gang.

[alex andrew]

Anyways back ontopic

on a positive note he's short ( why put him in the wall ?? )

the other game, the defender wanted to obstruct a nice solid piece of charging chest, but elbowed the shnoze instead, hahaha.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

He's the best player on our team. He was, for about 40 minutes of it, utterly dominant on Sunday. The rest of the time, he was just entirely competent.

He blew it by setting up in the wall (although that might've been a last second decision to fill the role for whomever was actually supposed to be there) and jumping. That's it.

But go back and watch the damn replay. He breaks up colorado's forward moves through anticipating passes all night long, and he starts some really good forward moves (which then break down at the feet of others) through full-field pressure defence.

He's not only worth 900K a year, I can easily see why he'd get more for that in Europe. And if he leaves, it'll be because a) he can't stand playing at this level and b) he gets zero love from hometown fans who are shitting on the wrong guy.



Standing Ovation....I seriously think that dozens of people on this board don't understand the concept of "football" and high level of play...

[mmmikey]

He's the best player on our team. He was, for about 40 minutes of it, utterly dominant on Sunday. The rest of the time, he was just entirely competent.

He blew it by setting up in the wall (although that might've been a last second decision to fill the role for whomever was actually supposed to be there) and jumping. That's it.

But go back and watch the damn replay. He breaks up colorado's forward moves through anticipating passes all night long, and he starts some really good forward moves (which then break down at the feet of others) through full-field pressure defence.

He's not only worth 900K a year, I can easily see why he'd get more for that in Europe. And if he leaves, it'll be because a) he can't stand playing at this level and b) he gets zero love from hometown fans who are shitting on the wrong guy.

100%. even great players make mistakes, but u have to judge their game as a whole, and i see so much positives from julian yesterday it is unfathomable to me that ppl see nothing but negatives.

[alex andrew]

as a whole, in 15 games or so, he did absolutely nothing.

not a goal, not an assist, not nothing.

oh ! an own goal if that counts.

and all of these for half a million dollars, not bad at all.

[trane]

^ Is that how you rate players? hahahahha. He is a defensive mid. I am not sure if you noticed.

[deltox]

for the globe and mail's PAUL JAMES:

on JDG...

Was cowardly on the set-piece goal which was the turning point for TFC in terms of getting any points from the game. Made himself available for receiving the ball as much as he could but his ability to create and develop play was again poor. Defending wise he tries to cut corners by turning his back on opponents. Tackles in a lazy manner far too often.

[trane]

^ "His ability to create and develop play was again poor" for fuck sakes, he is CDM, his role, is to stop the opposing attack and then to deliver the ball in a forward position, the player in the best position to create something. He is not a 10, he does not need to create and develop play. Even if he tried, he is not an attacking Mid,who can created and develop play on his own, he is just not that player.

[Pachuco]

for the globe and mail's PAUL JAMES:

on JDG...

Was cowardly on the set-piece goal which was the turning point for TFC in terms of getting any points from the game. Made himself available for receiving the ball as much as he could but his ability to create and develop play was again poor. Defending wise he tries to cut corners by turning his back on opponents. Tackles in a lazy manner far too often.

I guess Paul James is one of those other people that knows nothing about football and playing at a high level. Because you know, if you don't think JDG is phenomenal, then you obviously know nothing :rolleyes:.

[trane]

^ No he is just wrong on at least part of his comment. The lazy tackles and defending, I understand were he is comming from, but do not necessarily agree.

[Toronto Gunner]

It's true that JDG hasn't been creating as many attacking opportunities or goals as DeRo. Maybe we should get rid of JDG. And also Frei - he's set up even fewer goals and attacking plays...

[Pachuco]

^ No he is just wrong on at least part of his comment. The lazy tackles and defending, I understand were he is comming from, but do not necessarily agree.

I wasn't referring to anything you've said ;)

But he isn't wrong, he just has a difference opinion then you do. I whole hearteadly agree with everything he said. And I can't stand Paul James, but that is for personal reasons more then anything.

[Heathen]

^ "His ability to create and develop play was again poor" for fuck sakes, he is CDM, his role, is to stop the opposing attack and then to deliver the ball in a forward position, the player in the best position to create something. He is not a 10, he does not need to create and develop play. Even if he tried, he is not an attacking Mid,who can created and develop play on his own, he is just not that player.

Sorry trane but even a CDM should be able to pass to his own player from 10 yards away. I see what you're saying but there are different types of CDMs, you have the Makele type who's basically a destroyer/disruptor and you have the Essien type who has everything Makele does plus the ability to create from in front of the back four and get forward on occasion. I think JDGs problem is that he's neither of these.

[trane]

Pachuco,

I did not think you were. I have to confess, that I have observed some of the same issues as far as defending. But I am not sure what to make of it. My only issue is that I do not expect a CDM to be as big a part of the offence as James seems too. He can be, but again like a Pirlo not a Gerrard.

[trane]

Sorry trane but even a CDM should be able to pass to his own player from 10 yards away. I see what you're saying but there are different types of CDMs, you have the Makele type who's basically a destroyer/disruptor and you have the Essien type who has everything Makele does plus the ability to create from in front of the back four and get forward on occasion. I think JDGs problem is that he's neither of these.


Ohh agreed 100%, as I said Pirlo is a CDM, and he is ( was) one of the most effective passers in the world. But the issue of passing has been discussed, he passess the ball to were our players should be, but are most often not. For you to start the attack effectivley it cannot be static passing to stating players gives the defense an opportunity to adjust. He tries to start the attack in good positions, his teamates are not responding.

[alex andrew]

it doesn't matter one's a pirlo or not, a cat is a cat.

you can see pirlos at every level of football, from the beaches of brazil to schoolyards in 'fill in the blank'.

he's not a cat.

he should send a video of his best offs to cirque du soleil.

[torontocelt]

Ohh agreed 100%, as I said Pirlo is a CDM, and he is ( was) one of the most effective passers in the world. But the issue of passing has been discussed, he passess the ball to were our players should be, but are most often not. For you to start the attack effectivley it cannot be static passing to stating players gives the defense an opportunity to adjust. He tries to start the attack in good positions, his teamates are not responding.

I would never associate Pirlo with the defensive midfield position, he is normally a central midfielder or an attacking midfielder, unless he has changed his position in recent times? Tackling isn't really his strong point and I have never really thought he was great at breaking up play, those are two skills a defensive midfielder should have. I wouldn't even say man marking is a strong point and at times a DM may be given that kind of role. Pirlo is an excellent passer of the ball though although a DM doesn't have to make forward passes, his job is more to just break down attacks, win the ball, retain possession and make a pass. Unless a DM is quite talented at passing he would normally make a simple pass preferably to a more attacking minded team mate. Neil Lennon, Paul Lambert, Didier Deshamps and Rino Gattusso have made good careers out of playing that way. To compare the passing of Pirlo with JDG just is not fair on JDG.

[torontocelt]

Sorry trane but even a CDM should be able to pass to his own player from 10 yards away. I see what you're saying but there are different types of CDMs, you have the Makele type who's basically a destroyer/disruptor and you have the Essien type who has everything Makele does plus the ability to create from in front of the back four and get forward on occasion. I think JDGs problem is that he's neither of these.

Agreed that Essien is quite unique, a manager and team mates dream.

[Heathen]

Ohh agreed 100%, as I said Pirlo is a CDM, and he is ( was) one of the most effective passers in the world. But the issue of passing has been discussed, he passess the ball to were our players should be, but are most often not. For you to start the attack effectivley it cannot be static passing to stating players gives the defense an opportunity to adjust. He tries to start the attack in good positions, his teamates are not responding.

I don't deny he made passes into places where better teammates would've been but he also passed straight to opponents on too many occasions there is no excuse for that

[James17930]

Maybe we can all agree JDG hasn't had the best start with TFC.

but can we please lay off him? We need him to be confident and to find his game, and he can't do that if we're ragging on him all the time.

He's not a Garcia -- he doesn't deserve to be ragged off the field. Give him a bit of time.

[jloome]

Yes he broke up Colorado's plays two or three times. But you are focusing on the positives only. Are you saying he didn't give the ball away multiple times to Colorado or that he didn't get the ball stolen right from his feet more then once? It went both ways for him last night, in the end, you have an average performance. Then the bonehead move and it makes it a poor performance.

Based on how he's playing, the only offer he's going to get in Europe is from a 3rd division Danish side.

He had a few blunders, but nothing any guy paired with Martin Saric wouldn't have.

Saric is waaaay out of his league. He has great work ethic but his reading of the game, delivery and positioning left JDG frozen on double teams at least three times in the first half. Colorado keyed on him to break up the midfield and he got nothing in support. In fact, Adrian Freakin' Cann recognized what was happening and stepped forward to offer a safety valve after the first few.

I'd stick Cronin in the middle with him, or Labrocca, both decent two-way guys who understand the concept of support play.

[jloome]

I guess Paul James is one of those other people that knows nothing about football and playing at a high level. Because you know, if you don't think JDG is phenomenal, then you obviously know nothing :rolleyes:.

Strawman argument. Apparently, the guy who commits the hard foul is expected to take a spot in the wall, as per DeVos on the weekend, and in this case, he didn't, so JDG stepped in instead.

Who committed the foul?

EDIT: well whattya know! Martin Saric! Shocking. Also explains why, according to Cann, Julian isn't normally in the wall during set pieces.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Strawman argument. Apparently, the guy who commits the hard foul is expected to take a spot in the wall, as per DeVos on the weekend, and in this case, he didn't, so JDG stepped in instead.

Who committed the foul?

EDIT: well whattya know! Martin Saric! Shocking. Also explains why, according to Cann, Julian isn't normally in the wall during set pieces.

yup. While everyone is ragging on DeGuzman, It was Martin Saric that threw a last second monkey wrench into the wall...and Julian was just trying to step up quickly and fill the hole that Saric left....

[Pachuco]

Strawman argument. Apparently, the guy who commits the hard foul is expected to take a spot in the wall, as per DeVos on the weekend, and in this case, he didn't, so JDG stepped in instead.

Who committed the foul?

EDIT: well whattya know! Martin Saric! Shocking. Also explains why, according to Cann, Julian isn't normally in the wall during set pieces.

I was referring to some comment in this thread and not by you :).

Yes Martin Saric is awefull, I think most people agree with that. Yes Cronin should be playing instead of Saric, most people agree with that too. BUT, I promise you Jloome, stick a 16 year old who plays rep in a wall and the last thing they would do is jump out of the way. They teach that at a very young age. I've seen walls open up, but NEVER like that. JDG is a professional, he's played at the highest level and I'm quite sure it isn't his first time being part of a wall. He messed up big time with that play, I don't think we should be making excuses for that.

[Roogsy]

Saric has not impressed me one bit. Not one bit. Another Preki signing that does not inspire confidence in me.

I am not talking about gelling with the team or finding your place. I am talking about basic soccer skills like not taking stupid fouls. This one being one of many he has already cost us.

[trane]

I would never associate Pirlo with the defensive midfield position, he is normally a central midfielder or an attacking midfielder, unless he has changed his position in recent times? Tackling isn't really his strong point and I have never really thought he was great at breaking up play, those are two skills a defensive midfielder should have. I wouldn't even say man marking is a strong point and at times a DM may be given that kind of role. Pirlo is an excellent passer of the ball though although a DM doesn't have to make forward passes, his job is more to just break down attacks, win the ball, retain possession and make a pass. Unless a DM is quite talented at passing he would normally make a simple pass preferably to a more attacking minded team mate. Neil Lennon, Paul Lambert, Didier Deshamps and Rino Gattusso have made good careers out of playing that way. To compare the passing of Pirlo with JDG just is not fair on JDG.


Gattusso is a pure DM, Pirlo plays as a deeplying playmaker CM/DM, whatever you want to put it. He is not the best tackler, but he can tackle, and he can defend. In Italy a Central Mid is expected to defend. He is not often used as a AM, moslty as I said he is used as I said as either a pure CM or DM, but a playmaking one. The reason that I keep on talking about him, is that from that deep position, as a DM would play YOU can be a "general" of the team, and I had hoped that JDG would be that. He can still be that. Not that Pirlo is a typical DM, I would agree with you that his attributes are more associated with a CM, despite how deep back he usualy plays.

[mmmikey]

a) Pirlo does play as a DM. I watch alot of AC Milan games and he is always paired with an engine room type midfielder such as gattuso or ambrosini or even flamini. he rarely plays far up the field until the team has advanced well into the final third. he positions himself much like julian on the pitch, is not afraid to get stuck in, however he rarely leaves his feet. he then offers himself as first outlet from the back to release the team forward. the similarities in game play is quite stunning everytime i watch TFC. however, it is very true that pirlo is a MUCH better passer then almost anyone in the game.. it's his gift. but JDG is quite capable of this when teammates actually offer themselves... look at the nice pass to barrett which eventually led to the PK.

b) since we seem to be quoting pundits... KJ put it best: JDG is a player who REQUIRES the assitance of teammates to play well, and it is terribly unfair on him to play him with a guy so out of depth as Saric.

c) never seen someone jump in the wall like that? u don't watch enough soccer then... it happens.. not the first time and it won't be the last time i see that. it's called a MISTAKE. honestly, why would we ever have one of the shortest guys, who can actually stay with his man defensively on the set piece in the wall in the first place. granted, he made a horrible play. i believe the over critical nature of some people are drawing way more attention to this play than it is really worth and glossing over the positives. negatives happen even to the best of players (i.e. john terry red carded on weekend... MAN HE SUCKS.. oh wait... hes still a good player - albeit showing signs of decline). i don't buy this "jump outta the way" bs anyhow like he was afraid... i think he just tried to jump and turn his face away but ended up screwing up royally by moving sideways in the air opening a gap.

d) saric has NO business starting. he is brutal. zero touch, zero positional sense, reckless in the tackle, does not pass well at all. c ronin or labrocca should ALWAYS start over him.. even starting peterson and subbing him early then shifting gargan to rm would be better than having saric start. he just has no place in an MLS starting lineup. best i can figure out is mo thinks he must be good because he is Argentinian.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

I was referring to some comment in this thread and not by you :).

Yes Martin Saric is awefull, I think most people agree with that. Yes Cronin should be playing instead of Saric, most people agree with that too. BUT, I promise you Jloome, stick a 16 year old who plays rep in a wall and the last thing they would do is jump out of the way. They teach that at a very young age. I've seen walls open up, but NEVER like that. JDG is a professional, he's played at the highest level and I'm quite sure it isn't his first time being part of a wall. He messed up big time with that play, I don't think we should be making excuses for that.

I think u should read mmmmikey's post:

never seen someone jump in the wall like that? u don't watch enough soccer then... it happens.. not the first time and it won't be the last time i see that. it's called a MISTAKE. honestly, why would we ever have one of the shortest guys, who can actually stay with his man defensively on the set piece in the wall in the first place. granted, he made a horrible play. i believe the over critical nature of some people are drawing way more attention to this play than it is really worth and glossing over the positives. negatives happen even to the best of players (i.e. john terry red carded on weekend... MAN HE SUCKS.. oh wait... hes still a good player - albeit showing signs of decline). i don't buy this "jump outta the way" bs anyhow like he was afraid... i think he just tried to jump and turn his face away but ended up screwing up royally by moving sideways in the air opening a gap.

[Pachuco]

I think u should read mmmmikey's post:

never seen someone jump in the wall like that? u don't watch enough soccer then... it happens.. not the first time and it won't be the last time i see that. it's called a MISTAKE. honestly, why would we ever have one of the shortest guys, who can actually stay with his man defensively on the set piece in the wall in the first place. granted, he made a horrible play. i believe the over critical nature of some people are drawing way more attention to this play than it is really worth and glossing over the positives. negatives happen even to the best of players (i.e. john terry red carded on weekend... MAN HE SUCKS.. oh wait... hes still a good player - albeit showing signs of decline). i don't buy this "jump outta the way" bs anyhow like he was afraid... i think he just tried to jump and turn his face away but ended up screwing up royally by moving sideways in the air opening a gap.

Yeah I read it, thanks. Add something insightfull for once or get a life! How about you try stating your own opinions?

Now, Mickey, we both agree JDG made a horrible mistake. We agree he shouldn't have been in the wall in the first place. Not sure where we are disagreeing there. As per me not watching enough soccer, not even gonna bother with that one.

[J .]

I think u should read mmmmikey's post:

never seen someone jump in the wall like that? u don't watch enough soccer then... it happens.. not the first time and it won't be the last time i see that. it's called a MISTAKE. honestly, why would we ever have one of the shortest guys, who can actually stay with his man defensively on the set piece in the wall in the first place. granted, he made a horrible play. i believe the over critical nature of some people are drawing way more attention to this play than it is really worth and glossing over the positives. negatives happen even to the best of players (i.e. john terry red carded on weekend... MAN HE SUCKS.. oh wait... hes still a good player - albeit showing signs of decline). i don't buy this "jump outta the way" bs anyhow like he was afraid... i think he just tried to jump and turn his face away but ended up screwing up royally by moving sideways in the air opening a gap.


No, he didnt want to get hit with the ball.

Cowardly.

[J .]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/04/18/deguzman_wall_381.jpg

:facepalm:

He's jumping out of the fucking way!!!!!! Look at that. Thats fucking cowardice.

SHAME!

[mmmikey]

yeah.. cause he has come so far as a pro soccer player despite harboring a deep seated fear of being hit by soccer balls. right. that makes the most sense...

heres a question: if he wanted out of the way, why not just take 1 step to the side, or duck behind the dudes beside him? why jump up as u do it? seems the least direct path to hide yourself.... oh wait, hes a coward and cowards jump up in the air to avoid a ball at their head level.... cause he is freakin jordan and going to hurdle the thing.

furthermore: lets assume he did in fact think, "oh shit my face".. u know what, i dont blame him. not one bit. i've experienced first hand what receiving a high velocity soccer ball can do to an eye, and i dont wish that on anyone. the effects don't just go away, it can be permanent. i don't care how much is paid, u only get one set.

[kingjerk]

I don't think he was intentionally jumping out of the way of the ball, just doing a shitty job in the wall. In this pic you can see his in the upward motion of his jump before the ball is even kicked
http://i40.tinypic.com/ettwz5.jpg

[Stencils]

I don't deny he made passes into places where better teammates would've been but he also passed straight to opponents on too many occasions there is no excuse for that

This is the same thing I've seen.

[Darlofletch]

I don't think he was intentionally jumping out of the way of the ball, just doing a shitty job in the wall. In this pic you can see his in the upward motion of his jump before the ball is even kicked
http://i40.tinypic.com/ettwz5.jpg

Nice pic, the cowardice angle is ridiculous, may as well accuse frei of cowardice on Casey's penalty.

Horrible wall defending, absolutely, cowardice? no.

[Limani_Ole]

Even Maradonna would suck on this crappy team.. take a hint people this isnt basketball where one player can make a team look good and win all the time.. its systems and coaching that get the best from players..

ie Messi in the Argentina qualifying

[Stryker]

If JDG hadn't moved an inch the ball would have hit him square in the face...




At which point I would have laughed my ass off.

[fetajr]

Even Maradonna would suck on this crappy team.. take a hint people this isnt basketball where one player can make a team look good and win all the time.. its systems and coaching that get the best from players..

ie Messi in the Argentina qualifying

+111:drinking:


system, tactics, gameplan, coaching is what Marcelo Bielsa instilled in Chile, making some good players into great players, and average players into good ones.

http://u-sector.ca/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/bielsa.jpg

[jloome]

I was referring to some comment in this thread and not by you :).

Yes Martin Saric is awefull, I think most people agree with that. Yes Cronin should be playing instead of Saric, most people agree with that too. BUT, I promise you Jloome, stick a 16 year old who plays rep in a wall and the last thing they would do is jump out of the way. They teach that at a very young age. I've seen walls open up, but NEVER like that. JDG is a professional, he's played at the highest level and I'm quite sure it isn't his first time being part of a wall. He messed up big time with that play, I don't think we should be making excuses for that.

Yeah, that's true enough. Culpability all around the other day, but I still think 40 good minutes of JDG breaking up flow and passing ahead makes him the best holder we've had.

[CretanBull]

JDG is being left to do everything in the center of the pitch - Saric is useless. What he needs is someone like Robbo to win the ball which would allow him to be more creative, or someone like Guevara which would allow him to do all the dirty work. He can't do everything by himself.

If people think that by virtue of being a DP that he's going to be able to win balls, jump up and make pin-point passes to team mates making perfect runs don't understand the game.

The game vs. Colorado was his best one yet.

[torontocelt]

furthermore: lets assume he did in fact think, "oh shit my face".. u know what, i dont blame him. not one bit. i've experienced first hand what receiving a high velocity soccer ball can do to an eye, and i dont wish that on anyone. the effects don't just go away, it can be permanent. i don't care how much is paid, u only get one set.

This is how you take a ball to the face. God knows what JDG would do to avoid a Branco free kick, one thing is for sure he wouldn't take it straight on his coupon like Murdo McLeod did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCVNpJjzMpQ

[J .]

I don't think he was intentionally jumping out of the way of the ball, just doing a shitty job in the wall. In this pic you can see his in the upward motion of his jump before the ball is even kicked
http://i40.tinypic.com/ettwz5.jpg

He has already started turning to the side, the ball hasn't even been struck and his knees are buckling.

On the road, in one of the worst road environments and you can steal a point. You take it off the head, for the team, the club and the supporters... for self respect.

If youre not producing at all, the least I demand is sacrificing for the point....Hey, remember when we lost out on a point last year?

Maybe he shouldnt have been in the wall, maybe there is now an obvious reason for why the guy shot the ball at him, nonetheless, that cost us a point.

Heck, ESPN, other media outlets and supporters have picked up on it. Its a fucking joke.

Cowardly by any angle.

[Don Julio]

He was looking like coming around leading up to "the incident". Hope it doesn't set him back too far in his comfort and confidence.

It really takes two people to make a successful pass, and the people he's passing to are a combination of a) incompetent, and b) strangers.

I think it's funny that we have one thread with everyone freaking out that Mo doesn't give players a chance to settle before giving up on them, and another with (probably the same) people not giving JDG a chance to settle before giving up on him.

Regardless if any of the arguments in this thread, he is not the problem with this team.

[CretanBull]

"Cowardly"? That's just about the most retarded thing that I've heard. Do you really think someone who's played the game as long as he has is afraid of the ball?!?

Maybe he was jumping because he's the shortest guy on the pitch (who never should have been placed in the wall to begin with) and the obvious place to play the ball was over his head?

[J .]

"Cowardly"? That's just about the most retarded thing that I've heard. Do you really think someone who's played the game as long as he has is afraid of the ball?!?

Maybe he was jumping because he's the shortest guy on the pitch (who never should have been placed in the wall to begin with) and the obvious place to play the ball was over his head?

I think he didnt want to take the ball in the face. Got scared, turned his body out of the way so he wouldnt get hit and jumped. His jump couldnt have been more out of the way....Everyone around him looked like wtf are you doing...

You think someone who has played the game that long has that bad of body control? Give him some credit.

Im saying he's scared, your saying he's incompetent. Hopefully he's not both.

[profit89]

Patience guys. The players need time to settle and understand each other. Give it time. Tfc will make the playoffs.

[CretanBull]

I'm not saying that he's incompetent..I'm saying he's the shortest guy in the wall and jumped because the obvious place to play the ball was over his head. If he was afraid of getting hit by the ball, why would he step into the wall in the first place?

[Pachuco]

Cowardly is way over exaggerated. I can't believe Paul James actualy called him a coward too. He made a mistake, personally it was a terrible judgement in error. But cowardly? don't know, I don't buy that. To be honest I don't even remember him turning his head.

[bigtfcfan]

Guys I really doubt he jumped out of the way on purpose. I think it's really unfair to make this accusation. From what I can tell the guy is really giving it his all for this team. Looks like he is fighting for the ball now and is beginning to understand the physicality of MLS. Let's show some confidence in him. Direct the negative energy towards the guy that actually deserves it. Which is Mo in case you didn't already know.

[loyola]

Strawman argument. Apparently, the guy who commits the hard foul is expected to take a spot in the wall, as per DeVos on the weekend, and in this case, he didn't, so JDG stepped in instead.

Who committed the foul?

EDIT: well whattya know! Martin Saric! Shocking. Also explains why, according to Cann, Julian isn't normally in the wall during set pieces.

This is pro soccer we're talking about.

If you can't expect a player not being able to stay in place in wall at that level I'm not sure what you can do.

It doesn't matter who it was supposed to be, Saric? Cann? Frei? The only thing that matter here is that JDG wa there and since he was there you had to expect him to do his job, which he didn't do. The blame is on him, not Saric.

We just asked Jules to stay in place in wall and we should expect him to be able to do that, we didn't ask him to save a PK shot, just to do his job in wall.

I'm tired of reading all those excuses.

[torontocelt]

Strawman argument. Apparently, the guy who commits the hard foul is expected to take a spot in the wall, as per DeVos on the weekend, and in this case, he didn't, so JDG stepped in instead.

Who committed the foul?

EDIT: well whattya know! Martin Saric! Shocking. Also explains why, according to Cann, Julian isn't normally in the wall during set pieces.

Standing in a wall isn't exactly difficult is it? JDG made a big mistake, what the hell he was doing no one knows but him? The fact and the only fact there is is that JDG should be able to stand in one place when part of a wall. I would excuse him if he jumped straight up if he felt it was going to go over his head but to jump out of the way whether he meant to or not was a big mistake and only he is to blame for that.

[marquis]

Regardless if any of the arguments in this thread, he is not the problem with this team.

True, but his play so far is submediocre, just like the rest of the team (except for DeRo). The only difference is he makes millions .

[Blizzard]

Guys I really doubt he jumped out of the way on purpose. I think it's really unfair to make this accusation. From what I can tell the guy is really giving it his all for this team. Looks like he is fighting for the ball now and is beginning to understand the physicality of MLS. Let's show some confidence in him. Direct the negative energy towards the guy that actually deserves it. Which is Mo in case you didn't already know.

Of course he didn't and I'm stunned that Paul James would say such a thing. I think he's looking better week by week as he adjusts to the lack of movement of his teammates. Let's just hope things continue to improve.

As for PJ, well, I dunno. That's such a huge accusation to make .... does he know something we don't or does he have some sort of bone to pick with JDG?

[Carts]

Picture says it all... 3-guys in perfect formation... 1 guy jumping out of the path of the ball...

The ball would've & should've hit the one man who jumped out of its path, leaving a huge hole, and Frei helpless...

People can only speculate on the reason ie: poor form, somehow guessed it was going toward the man on his left & he wouldn't block it, cowardice, momentary loss of his head, bad basics - whatever. But, there is NO EXCUSE, for any player on our squad (be it a DP, or a Development player making $17k) to jump out of the path of the ball...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/04/18/deguzman_wall_381.jpg

Funny - look at this pic, SAM CRONIN has been in Preki's doghouse and he's holding his position almost perfectly... Legs are together, hands/arms are in avoiding any controversy, up high on his feet for an extra inch...

Carts...

[Darlofletch]

Picture says it all... 3-guys in perfect formation... 1 guy jumping out of the path of the ball...

The ball would've & should've hit the one man who jumped out of its path, leaving a huge hole, and Frei helpless...

People can only speculate on the reason ie: poor form, somehow guessed it was going toward the man on his left & he wouldn't block it, cowardice, momentary loss of his head, bad basics - whatever. But, there is NO EXCUSE, for any player on our squad (be it a DP, or a Development player making $17k) to jump out of the path of the ball...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/04/18/deguzman_wall_381.jpg

Funny - look at this pic, SAM CRONIN has been in Preki's doghouse and he's holding his position almost perfectly... Legs are together, hands/arms are in avoiding any controversy, up high on his feet for an extra inch...

Carts...

what if he was jumping into the path of the ball? I facetiously compared it to frei jumping out of the way of casey's penalty, but in a way it makes sense.

a goalie will often, rather than just guess, try and read where the forwards going to strike a penalty, then dive that way. If the forward's talented enough, he can change his shot and panenka it nicely down the middle instead.

So larentowicz looks as if he's trying to kick it over the wall, so jdg jumps to try and get in the way, thinking the whole wall's going to jump at the same time, larentowicz sees him jumping so aims it at the nice gap that's about to open up and scores.

still doesn't excuse the horrible mistake on a very basic part of defending that they must have actually talked about that very day (see the flip chart behind jacob peterson in his tfctv interview), but to me is a much more plausible explanation than cowardice.

[Oblio2]

This is how you take a ball to the face. God knows what JDG would do to avoid a Branco free kick, one thing is for sure he wouldn't take it straight on his coupon like Murdo McLeod did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCVNpJjzMpQ



You know, I think John Terry is a cunt...no, epic cunt...but when he's in defence, he'd stand in front of a freight train. I like that.
JDG...epic fail

[James17930]

I'm not saying that he's incompetent..I'm saying he's the shortest guy in the wall and jumped because the obvious place to play the ball was over his head. If he was afraid of getting hit by the ball, why would he step into the wall in the first place?

That's exactly what happened. It's so obvious I don't really know how anyone could think otherwise.

Was it still the wrong thing to do? Yes. He screwed up.

But anyone who's saying he's a coward or he sucks or whatever should really, REALLY, knock it off.

[Stryker]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/220/482778074_32f2fd90a1.jpg?v=0

[volunteer]

http://i.imagehost.org/0119/zzdeguzman_wall_381.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0119/zzdeguzman_wall_381)

[J .]

http://i.imagehost.org/0119/zzdeguzman_wall_381.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0119/zzdeguzman_wall_381)


If it was Garcia....If it was Saric, if it was some kid from the TFC Academy? If it was Mo fucking Jo all the naysayers and haters would be shitting everywhere.

I can deal with errors made in the course of the game, errant passes, mistimed crosses, poor tackles. This was a case of not wanting to do dirty work to get the points.

At this point he's jumped passed his teamate, turned his head and he's looking at the ball going by him. In the earlier picture, his body has already begun to turn. You cant jump like that unless you intentionally meant too.

Ive watched JDG play for years, he is talented, technical and if he wanted to be, he could be the best mid in the league. I give him credit for his skill.

But MLS as we know isnt just about skill, its a working mans league. Its a physical league that depends on grinding wins out, about 11 players that sacrifice. Those are the teams that win the MLS cup.

What he did shows a symptom of why we are getting blown out and I hope Preki runs this team into the ground or continues to clean house to get actions like this purged from the team.

Instead of stealing points on the road. He wasnt there in New England and he might as well have been absent here. Two road points gone. We missed out on the playoffs by how many points last year?

His heart is not into it and he is not willing to sacrifice for the team. The worst part is he was my favourite CMNT player... how can you support someone who doesn't put in 100%? I pay my price for a doucat to support my club. He gets paid a kings ransom to do fuck all.

Furthermore, I dont accept this shit about the players around him not moving or any of these other excuses. There excuses, not reasons.

The best mid in the league and he is doing nothing creative, not just even from a price point, because if we factored in his pay and expectations he would be the worst signing TFC ever has had. Ive seen him perform wonders in the Gold Cup, against much better players that made me get out of my chair and lose it... he's done nothing for our club, with how many games, training sessions and preparation to give us a glimmer of "wow".

He better be a fucking champ all year long, but for me, his name tastes like ass when I speak it.

Take one off the face asshole.

Juilian De Coward. Fuck him.

[loyola]

I'm not saying that he's incompetent..I'm saying he's the shortest guy in the wall and jumped because the obvious place to play the ball was over his head. If he was afraid of getting hit by the ball, why would he step into the wall in the first place?

Anyone who's played soccer here? Have you ever heard of a coach telling the shortest player in the wall to jump to compensate the lack of height??? This is nonsense.

If JDG did that because he is small, well he doesn't understand the role of a wall. The wall always move as a unit, not one player doing something while the next guy is doing another thing. Even if he jumps to cover his lack of height, it still means he exposed the wall for shots who are hit on the ground.

JDG is lucky to have that much complacent fans ready to find an excuse for a move like that. Specially when you consider is genrally poor play since the start of the season, you guys should be asking a lot more from this guy.

[mmmikey]

oh get off it. ppl here defending JDG for that PARTICULAR play are only doing so from the perspective that he is not a coward or doesn't horribly suck. no matter the reasons it was still a momentous error in the game. however, it doesn't mean they will agree with blatant overreaction and insinuations that he has 0 balls. we get it, he screwed up. no one is disputing that fact.

edit: on a less irratated note!!... i used to have the same supporters mentality.. demanding absolute bravery and sacrifice no matter the cost. but after getting one of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyphema and spending weeks trying to recover most (not all) of my vision and post concussion syndrome.. things get put into perspective a bit. sometimes we lose sight of the human cost that is sometimes involved with sports. while i will applaud someone who gives their 100%, i can't entirely fault a guy who gets a momentary "oh shit" moment and ducks.. i still think jdg just wanted to jump to help block, twisted a bit in air to shield his face and fucked up royally. bad play, but don't think he's a coward for it.

[loyola]

oh get off it. ppl here defending JDG for that PARTICULAR play are only doing so from the perspective that he is not a coward or doesn't horribly suck. no matter the reasons it was still a momentous error in the game. however, it doesn't mean they will agree with blatant overreaction and insinuations that he has 0 balls. we get it, he screwed up. no one is disputing that fact.



Well, I've seen a lot of people trying to find a way to excuse JDG. "He was jumping for his lack of height" "Saric should've been in the wall", I was responding to those kind of statement who are just that "excuses".

I don't think JDG is a coward, but that play is so bad that it gives the chances to some people to go hard against him. I'm not one of them, but people have to stop trying to justify why he jumped like that. No way Garcia would've got out with a move like that...:D

BTW, I like your edit, it's an interesting point your are bringing but I don't think it apply in this case (Julian would've got that ball on the head or soemwhere on the upper body). As a keeper, I got really scare after suffering a similar incident to the one that injured Peter Cech after colliding with Stephen Hunt a few years ago. Since then, I'm not as brave as I was because of fear of suffering a similar injury. I used to be demanding extreme bravery from players but when you put things in perspective you realized that it can sometimes be a really dangerous thing. On the other had, it's tough to find a amiddle between the two.

[trane]

Anyone who's played soccer here? Have you ever heard of a coach telling the shortest player in the wall to jump to compensate the lack of height??? This is nonsense.

If JDG did that because he is small, well he doesn't understand the role of a wall. The wall always move as a unit, not one player doing something while the next guy is doing another thing. Even if he jumps to cover his lack of height, it still means he exposed the wall for shots who are hit on the ground.

JDG is lucky to have that much complacent fans ready to find an excuse for a move like that. Specially when you consider is genrally poor play since the start of the season, you guys should be asking a lot more from this guy.

Yes, I am a complacent fan. I am not compacent about the overall situation of the club and with managemnt, I want improvement, but the anger dirrected at one player, the one player how is clearly our most skilled player ( which admitatly should not excuse everything) is a bit silly.

[mmmikey]

Well, I've seen a lot of people trying to find a way to excuse JDG. "He was jumping for his lack of height" "Saric should've been in the wall", I was responding to those kind of statement who are just that "excuses".

I don't think JDG is a coward, but that play is so bad that it gives the chances to some people to go hard against him. I'm not one of them, but people have to stop trying to justify why he jumped like that. No way Garcia would've got out with a move like that...:D

BTW, I like your edit, it's an interesting point your are bringing but I don't think it apply in this case (Julian would've got that ball on the head or soemwhere on the upper body). As a keeper, I got really scare after suffering a similar incident to the one that injured Peter Cech after colliding with Stephen Hunt a few years ago. Since then, I'm not as brave as I was because of fear of suffering a similar injury. I used to be demanding extreme bravery from players but when you put things in perspective you realized that it can sometimes be a really dangerous thing. On the other had, it's tough to find a amiddle between the two.

fair enough.. i believe most ppl are trying to explain why it happened tho, rather than trying to excuse it. i understand your point tho.. there isn't an excuse (as a gk i understand why u feel that way too!! ;)

sidebar: injury perspective.. it is amazing how long after u still feel the effects.. i always read about football players (NFL) with ACL injuries and how they felt it was often the more mental aspects of having the confidence to plant or not protect the knee that was tougher to recover from than the actual injury. it's been a year and i think i am mostly over it, but it still plays in the back of your mind. taking one or two balls off the head trying to make a block or press someone has helped get over it ;) /sidebar

[loyola]

Yes, I am a complacent fan. I am not compacent about the overall situation of the club and with managemnt, I want improvement, but the anger dirrected at one player, the one player how is clearly our most skilled player ( which admitatly should not excuse everything) is a bit silly.

JDG has been one the early season disapointment for TFC so far and probably cost a point on Sunday. Yes he has skills but he should be criticize for his overall play. I agree, some of the comments are a bit over the top as I don't think he is a coward, but Julian shouldn't be clear of all criticism because he has skills. You should expect more of him since he's one of you're best player.

Anyways, I hope he does respond well to the criticism, because he can be a fantastic player.

[Stryker]

On the TFC TV interview thats up JDG at least owned up to screwing up.
If he thinks that we dominated Colorado though he's dilussional.