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egoodwin
06-19-2008, 09:06 AM
http://ottsun.canoe.ca/Sports/OtherSports/2008/06/19/5923146.html

MLS considers Ottawa team

Report says Senators could be involved in ownership

By The Canadian Press

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Major League Soccer has met with the ownership group of the Ottawa Senators to discuss a possible team for Ottawa.
Discussions between MLS president Mark Abbott and the Senators’ Eugene Melnyk took place last Thursday.

continues...

The Historian
06-19-2008, 09:09 AM
Really?

I find that pretty far-fetched, personally.

Ossington Mental Youth
06-19-2008, 09:17 AM
Me too, and i hope they dont.
Its a big mistake like Columbus.

egoodwin
06-19-2008, 09:22 AM
well did they attend well during the U20 world cup...

and I'd love a 4-5 hour drive down the 401... to watch another Ottawa team choke

Parkdale
06-19-2008, 09:24 AM
nothing against Ottawa, but I can think of two other Canadian cities who deserve a team first.

The Historian
06-19-2008, 09:30 AM
nothing against Ottawa, but I can think of two other Canadian cities who deserve a team first.

Exactly. There are larger and (probably) more viable markets at the moment. I think MLS is just gauging interest at the moment.

Maybe MLS is looking at developing an MLS 2????? (pure speculation with absolutely no basis in fact)

TorontoBlades
06-19-2008, 09:48 AM
completely unrelated

why doesn't mlse blow up the world's biggest indoor bubble that will encompass the whole of BMO in it.....that way we can play matches in there year round

SilverSamurai
06-19-2008, 09:51 AM
completely unrelated

why doesn't mlse blow up the world's biggest indoor bubble that will encompass the whole of BMO in it.....that way we can play matches in there year round

Then we'd have a roof!

Billy the kid
06-19-2008, 09:55 AM
They're probably thinking that the hockey ownership there can do what the MLSE has done in Toronto. I don't know if the fan base is the same though.

The Historian
06-19-2008, 09:56 AM
Then we'd have a roof!

I'd be interested to see what would happen if TFC were to reach the quarterfinals of the Champions League - I think the home and away legs are in February...

...can you imagine a Mexican or Central American team having to play here in mid-February???

Billy the kid
06-19-2008, 10:04 AM
Advantage Canada.

ExiledRed
06-19-2008, 10:30 AM
nothing against Ottawa, but I can think of two other Canadian cities who deserve a team first.

Fuck 'em, they already have teams, just in different leagues and L'impacts attendance for the CC was abysmal.

TFC came from nowhere, and those same two cities bitched that we couldnt support a team and pointed at the Lynx as evidence.

Oldtimer
06-19-2008, 10:36 AM
Ottawa would be better for USL-1.

egoodwin
06-19-2008, 10:53 AM
same could have been said about Toronto

and I agree maybe USL1 first of all

But it is good news regardless for Canadian Professional Football that another potential Canadian franchise has emerged

bones
06-19-2008, 11:55 AM
I think the success of Toronto is directly related to our cultural diversity. A lot of people in Toront have family roots in countries that put football first and so it was more of a natural fit. We get exceptional support not just good support. Vancouver and Montreal get good support and perhaps that is due to lesser numbers with football in the blood so to speak. So how would Ottawa do? What's the background of the people in Ottawa? Personally, I don't think they would survive long term. There are other cities in Canada with a larger, ethnically diverse, football in the blood populations such as Hamilton which I'd rather see get a team WAY ahead of Ottawa. Both are not going to happen though.

Bones...

Flashman
06-19-2008, 12:01 PM
From Wikipedia:


Ottawa has a USL-PDL team, Ottawa Fury.

The Fury play their home games at Keith Harris Stadium on the campus of Carleton University in the city of Ottawa, Ontario.

The Stadium has a total capacity of 3,000 spectators.
Average Attendance
2007: 260
2006: 259
2005: 322

bangersandmash
06-19-2008, 12:02 PM
No more canadian teams until there are at least 11 canadians in starting XIs around the league. TFC has a hard enough time finding Canadian talent. Imagine how dire it would be if there were two other teams competing for it! I'd rather see a team in Buffalo.

Mark in Ottawa
06-19-2008, 12:06 PM
There is a lot of soccer interest in the city but most is at the junior amateur level.
Tons of youth soccer, high school leagues and one community college and two universities fielding male and female teams.

We have a few very vibrant local organizations with senior type teams but they traditionally are ethnically based (St. Anthony's Italia, Lusitania Portugese for example).

Ottawa drew exceptionally well for the U-20 but a lot of that was from out of town.
The fans in the city of Ottawa are notoriously hard on "less than well run" sports organizations as evidenced by the death of the CFL franchise, the minor pro Lacrosse team as well as the Triple A Ottawa Lynx baseball team. The well run groups like the Senators and the Ottawa 67's are of course hockey teams in a market where hockey always has been and always will be king.

Then again... the report states that nothing could occur on the MLS front until at least 2010. Perhaps Ottawa could take over the USL slot when the Montreal team goes MLS and test the interest level in football. This would also give them time to sort out the stadium situation as our current venue, Frank Clair stadium, has had one section of stands condemned and has attracted a set of land developers ready to redevelop the whole of Landsdowne park where the stadium is located along the Rideau Canal.

We have a few other venues that might work nicely as a soccer specific site but it would take deep pockets and a strong stomach for dealing with a city government that at times appears to be less than business friendly when sports, arts and cultural organizations are involved.

egoodwin
06-19-2008, 12:10 PM
No more canadian teams until there are at least 11 canadians in starting XIs around the league. TFC has a hard enough time finding Canadian talent. Imagine how dire it would be if there were two other teams competing for it! I'd rather see a team in Buffalo.
no more teams at MLS level, with the domestic requirements, but surely the more pro teams the better, the more opportunity and inspiration for young Canadians to develop into professional players

Cambridge_Red
06-19-2008, 12:11 PM
It would be great to have more Canadian teams. I think Montreal and Vancouver would deserve theirs first, but if they have the fan base in Ottawa why not? K.C. has a team afterall..

egoodwin
06-19-2008, 12:12 PM
There is a lot of soccer interest in the city but most is at the junior amateur level.
Tons of youth soccer, high school leagues and one community college and two universities fielding male and female teams.

We have a few very vibrant local organizations with senior type teams but they traditionally are ethnically based (St. Anthony's Italia, Lusitania Portugese for example).

Ottawa drew exceptionally well for the U-20 but a lot of that was from out of town.
The fans in the city of Ottawa are notoriously hard on "less than well run" sports organizations as evidenced by the death of the CFL franchise, the minor pro Lacrosse team as well as the Triple A Ottawa Lynx baseball team. The well run groups like the Senators and the Ottawa 67's are of course hockey teams in a market where hockey always has been and always will be king.

Then again... the report states that nothing could occur on the MLS front until at least 2010. Perhaps Ottawa could take over the USL slot when the Montreal team goes MLS and test the interest level in football. This would also give them time to sort out the stadium situation as our current venue, Frank Clair stadium, has had one section of stands condemned and has attracted a set of land developers ready to redevelop the whole of Landsdowne park where the stadium is located along the Rideau Canal.

We have a few other venues that might work nicely as a soccer specific site but it would take deep pockets and a strong stomach for dealing with a city government that at times appears to be less than business friendly when sports, arts and cultural organizations are involved.
perfect place for a stadium would be right near the Bayview O-Train station... I think that's the one, lot of nothing there... right on transitway and o-train too, and not far from downtown either

Oldtimer
06-19-2008, 12:13 PM
It should be noted that PDL figures hardly indicate interest, given that the PDL is amateur soccer.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-19-2008, 12:16 PM
Ottawa would be a great choice...good chance to take in an away game...Hope this comes across.....they have the best NHL team in the country so a strong MLS team
would be good.

Mark in Ottawa
06-19-2008, 12:24 PM
perfect place for a stadium would be right near the Bayview O-Train station... I think that's the one, lot of nothing there... right on transitway and o-train too, and not far from downtown either
I agree... great location but again not likely. They had their chance and blew it royally when they allowed the arena to be constructed in the corn fields of Kanata. Now Lebreton Flats is being developed and most of the land is spoken for. There is a bit of land left but it is mostly used as the downtown snow dump (they are still bulldozing the last of last years snow there hoping that the site can dry a bit before next winter) and rumbles continue over wether to use it for a new main library, new museum of science & tech &/or a new city archive.

Mooneys Bay complex has a smallish stadium used by the track and field clubs and that might be a candidate.

ilikemusic
06-19-2008, 12:24 PM
Ottawa would be a great choice...good chance to take in an away game...Hope this comes across.....they have the best NHL team in the country so a strong MLS team
would be good.

I dont understand how the Senators on ice success is related to Major League Soccer. :noidea:

This sounds like a pretty far fethced idea. Ottawa is not Toronto. It isnt all marketing and focus groups thats the reason Toronto FC has been such a success. Its the cultural makeup of the city. Ottawa is nothing like here.

Lucky Strike
06-19-2008, 12:25 PM
I'll keep this short:

- Ottawa is equally diverse as Toronto, so no problem there.
- However, I'd be against an MLS team in Ottawa based on the fact that two CFL franchises have failed, a AAA baseball team has failed and Ottawa is first and foremost a hockey town.
- As neat as it would be to have another Ottawa-Toronto rivalry, I don't think it's a good idea for the good of the league. I genuinely don't think the team would last long term and this coming from someone who lives here.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-19-2008, 12:29 PM
I dont understand how the Senators on ice success is related to Major League Soccer. :noidea:

This sounds like a pretty far fethced idea. Ottawa is not Toronto. It isnt all marketing and focus groups thats the reason Toronto FC has been such a success. Its the cultural makeup of the city. Ottawa is nothing like here.


remenber people were predicting TFC to fail agian based on previous soccer failure when they got the franchise. You can't say Ottawa can't be a success..Just like saying Vancouver would be a great soccer market for MLS, they might not....it's alright filling a 5,000 seat venue but asking 20,000 to come in Vancouver is another story...Lacrosse in a big sport
in Vancouver where the hte NLL Ravens? folded do to lack of fan support.

ilikemusic
06-19-2008, 12:30 PM
I'll keep this short:

- Ottawa is equally diverse as Toronto, so no problem there.


Granted I only spent a year in Ottawa but I dont think Ottawa is anywhere near as diverse as Toronto. Not even close.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-19-2008, 12:31 PM
I'll keep this short:

- Ottawa is equally diverse as Toronto, so no problem there.
- However, I'd be against an MLS team in Ottawa based on the fact that two CFL franchises have failed, a AAA baseball team has failed and Ottawa is first and foremost a hockey town.
- As neat as it would be to have another Ottawa-Toronto rivalry, I don't think it's a good idea for the good of the league. I genuinely don't think the team would last long term and this coming from someone who lives here.


the MLs is not the CFL...the cfl sucks and fans of that type of game should stay away. AAA baseball who cares? an ottawa-toront0o-montreal rivalry would be good for the league.

Lucky Strike
06-19-2008, 12:33 PM
Granted I only spent a year in Ottawa but I dont think Ottawa is anywhere near as diverse as Toronto. Not even close.

I'm sorry but that's not true. It is indeed as diverse. Take my word on that one. :D

ilikemusic
06-19-2008, 12:35 PM
the MLs is not the CFL...the cfl sucks and fans of that type of game should stay away. AAA baseball who cares? an ottawa-toront0o-montreal rivalry would be good for the league.

The CFL is higher up the gridiron pantheon than MLS is on the scale of professional soccer.

Saying the CFL sucks and that who cares about AAA baeball doesnt lend any credibility to whatever argument youre trying to make.

Wagner
06-19-2008, 12:35 PM
it won't happen.
but it doesn't hurt to have multiple cities interested....
they can demand a higher expansion fee if there is a big list of cities that are interested.

ilikemusic
06-19-2008, 12:36 PM
I'm sorry but that's not true. It is indeed as diverse. Take my word on that one. :D

Is there a reason I should take your word? Do you have statistics?

Are you a minority in Ottawa and as such are more exposed to the minority communities? Walking around downtown Ottawa for a year was the whitest experience of my life.

The only reason I could see for MLS' interest in Ottawa is another owner with deep-pockets who is comitted to the local community. Thats great, but I dont think it will put bums in seats.

GrimsbyTown
06-19-2008, 12:40 PM
There is no way on this rapidly less-green earth that an MLS team would be a good idea for Ottawa. Come on! They cannot be seriously thinking of even mentioning the words "Major League" in conjunction with Ottawa.

Could it work there? Maybe. A big huge MAYBE. Why the heck would they even think about expanding to such an uncertain market though? That is just plain bad business.

This would be a bad idea. BAD.

Lucky Strike
06-19-2008, 12:40 PM
Is there a reason I should take your word? Do you have statistics?

Are you a minority in Ottawa and as such are more exposed to the minority communities? Walking around downtown Ottawa for a year was the whitest experience of my life.

Good god man, it's not the Inquisition. I live here, have done so for a long time. The experience of one person here for one year in one sector of the city doesn't say much: that's generalizing from too little information.

Wagner
06-19-2008, 12:43 PM
maybe the success of TFC, and the popularity across the country....
i'm sure MLS does a lot of research and stuff....

maybe there are a lot of Ott area IP's hitting MLSnet.com??

olegunnar
06-19-2008, 12:43 PM
The 2001 census agrees with ilikemusic
http://www.ottawa.ca/city_services/statistics/census/ott/citz_ot_en.shtml

Or you can do it this way.
Ottawa--> 17.7 % visible minorities
http://www.ottawa.ca/city_services/statistics/data_handbook/who/table_19_en.shtml

Toronto ---> 43% visible minorities
http://www.toronto.ca/toronto_facts/diversity.htm

ilikemusic
06-19-2008, 12:45 PM
Good god man, it's not the Inquisition. I live here, have done so for a long time. The experience of one person here for one year in one sector of the city doesn't say much: that's generalizing from too little information.

All im saying is downtown Ottawa and downtown Toronto feel like two completely different countries. I felt almost no similarities between the two other than political geography.

Lucky Strike
06-19-2008, 12:49 PM
The 2001 census agrees with ilikemusic
http://www.ottawa.ca/city_services/statistics/census/ott/citz_ot_en.shtml

Better effort, but vastly out of date. :rolleyes: Look, the point is that we're assuming that multi-culturalism means good support. Whether that's true or not I don't know but I still say that MLS in Ottawa does not appear to be a good idea.

greatwhitenorf
06-19-2008, 01:22 PM
Only when there's proper Canadian content established in MLS - Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver all going good with decent amounts of Canadian players within their rosters - should we consider adding Ottawa to the mix.

They'd benefit from having Toronto and Montreal as natural rivals and a better-established league to work within.

Right now, MLS needs to bring solid additions to its franchise list. Can't afford anymore lightweights like KC or Columbus.

Apart from using Ottawa as leverage on US cities that MLS would prefer to expand to, it could also act to keep the Montreal mob honest in their approach for an MLS team.

Remember, too, that the Senators were looked at as very longshots for NHL expansion and someone ponied up the bucks NQA to get them into the league. Could Melnyk's financial clout make the difference?

The Historian
06-19-2008, 01:34 PM
Only when there's proper Canadian content established in MLS - Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver all going good with decent amounts of Canadian players within their rosters - should we consider adding Ottawa to the mix.

They'd benefit from having Toronto and Montreal as natural rivals and a better-established league to work within.

Right now, MLS needs to bring solid additions to its franchise list. Can't afford anymore lightweights like KC or Columbus.

Apart from using Ottawa as leverage on US cities that MLS would prefer to expand to, it could also act to keep the Montreal mob honest in their approach for an MLS team.

Remember, too, that the Senators were looked at as very longshots for NHL expansion and someone ponied up the bucks NQA to get them into the league. Could Melnyk's financial clout make the difference?

Agreed. I think it's in the MLS' best interest to develop strong and stable franchises... and being very careful with expansion is one of the pillars of such a strategy.

That said, one of the main reasons the MLS is still around today is that it had a group of owners (Lamar Hunt, Philip Anschulz [sp?] and a couple others) who were willing to eat financial loss year-after-year for about half a decade. I think at one point, those two owned about half the clubs in the league.

Is Melnyk one of those types of guys? It would go a long way...

greatwhitenorf
06-19-2008, 03:15 PM
Say this about Ottawa. It has some very sexy corporate citizenship, especially the high-tech sector in the west end. Melnyk may be aware of some sponsorship convergences that would make an Ottawa team a flier from day one.

Now that the very successful owner of the Ottawa 67s hockey team, Jeff Hunt, is involved in the new CFL franchise, I wonder if he's scheming to find ways to work with Melnyk in making a new football facility more viable by bringing in a soccer team to share it.

Not having the same demanding fans that TFC have, the issue of gridiron lines on the field might not be perceived so negatively.

And having visited Ottawa several times each year for the past two decades, I can attest to its growing diversity. And with it, an appetite for soccer that was never present for AAA baseball.

Maybe MLS have an all-Canadian division in mind for down the road.

Cashcleaner
06-19-2008, 03:34 PM
Ottawa simply can't support an MLS team. There's no other way to say it. They may have the ownership with deep pockets, but that's simply not enough to buy and keep a franchise. The Sens work and the 67's work, but I don't see an MLS team going anywhere. I also have serious doubts about the proposed CFL team.

I wil say one thing. If more Canadian cities really become serious about getting pro soccer teams, I would whole-heartedly support a seperate Canadian domestic league over the MLS.

NF-FC
06-19-2008, 03:42 PM
i think ottawa could "survive" in ottawa. not every team will have toronto like success. the break even point seems to be 13-14K a game in a sss. if they built a small (17K) SSS near downtown or atleast accessible by public transit they could do relatively well. if they build in kanata...good fucking luck

GuelphStorm2007
06-19-2008, 08:27 PM
I cannot see a MLs franchise working in Ottawa.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-19-2008, 08:31 PM
I cannot see a MLs franchise working in Ottawa.


people said the same for Toronto!!!

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-19-2008, 08:35 PM
Ottawa simply can't support an MLS team. There's no other way to say it. They may have the ownership with deep pockets, but that's simply not enough to buy and keep a franchise. The Sens work and the 67's work, but I don't see an MLS team going anywhere. I also have serious doubts about the proposed CFL team.

I wil say one thing. If more Canadian cities really become serious about getting pro soccer teams, I would whole-heartedly support a seperate Canadian domestic league over the MLS.


A canadian league will never happen, people want the best product avaiable and thats MLS in north america. the original CSL couldn't make a go of it, so it won't happen again.

RealG-TFC
06-19-2008, 08:37 PM
The more people say it will never happen, the more it will probably never happen. approaching it with a pessimistic attitude will never get anything done.

ExiledRed
06-19-2008, 08:39 PM
The more people say it will never happen, the more it will probably never happen. approaching it with a pessimistic attitude will never get anything done.

Quite, a little retrospect might be in order for those who forgot how many people said TFC would never happen.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-19-2008, 08:42 PM
Quite, a little retrospect might be in order for those who forgot how many people said TFC would never happen.

BINGO!!

ExiledRed
06-19-2008, 08:43 PM
I dont understand how the Senators on ice success is related to Major League Soccer. :noidea:


I dont understand how CFL failure is related to MLS.

ExiledRed
06-19-2008, 08:47 PM
I wil say one thing. If more Canadian cities really become serious about getting pro soccer teams, I would whole-heartedly support a seperate Canadian domestic league over the MLS.

It would probably be a mistake to hand the reins over to the CSA.

A 'Canadian or Northern Conference' would work better in my opinion.

adampz
06-19-2008, 08:56 PM
OTTAWA MLS, PLEASE, i read this title, thought you guys were joking. Id love to have an mls team in my city, we could use landsdown park, but we wouldnt have support like toronto, and the team would have to move

ExiledRed
06-19-2008, 09:10 PM
OTTAWA MLS, PLEASE, i read this title, thought you guys were joking. Id love to have an mls team in my city, we could use landsdown park, but we wouldnt have support like toronto, and the team would have to move

I think you would have support, if it meant you had another reason to hate Torontonians.

adampz
06-19-2008, 09:16 PM
Ive heard a lot of Ottawa doesnt have enough interest, diversity, whats our population though, less then a million, what is the GTA's, 5.5 million. I love toronto fc, bmo field is great, and id love an mls team in ottawa, but come on, it wouldnt be the same. I doubt we would have 20,000 on average like bmo, and we would need a new stadium to have the same game experience as bmo. Frank Clair is completely falling apart! Maybe if they make a MLS 2 league, ottawa could be in there. Ottawa wont get a team any time soon, we dont even have an effective subway or Light rail transit system!

Kooper
06-19-2008, 09:28 PM
There is a lot of soccer interest in the city but most is at the junior amateur level.
Tons of youth soccer, high school leagues and one community college and two universities fielding male and female teams.

We have a few very vibrant local organizations with senior type teams but they traditionally are ethnically based (St. Anthony's Italia, Lusitania Portugese for example).

Ottawa drew exceptionally well for the U-20 but a lot of that was from out of town.
The fans in the city of Ottawa are notoriously hard on "less than well run" sports organizations as evidenced by the death of the CFL franchise, the minor pro Lacrosse team as well as the Triple A Ottawa Lynx baseball team. The well run groups like the Senators and the Ottawa 67's are of course hockey teams in a market where hockey always has been and always will be king.

Then again... the report states that nothing could occur on the MLS front until at least 2010. Perhaps Ottawa could take over the USL slot when the Montreal team goes MLS and test the interest level in football. This would also give them time to sort out the stadium situation as our current venue, Frank Clair stadium, has had one section of stands condemned and has attracted a set of land developers ready to redevelop the whole of Landsdowne park where the stadium is located along the Rideau Canal.

We have a few other venues that might work nicely as a soccer specific site but it would take deep pockets and a strong stomach for dealing with a city government that at times appears to be less than business friendly when sports, arts and cultural organizations are involved.

Well said Mark. As much as I konw you guys would love a team in Ottawa best to start with a USL team. Then build from there.

The U20 was a great tournament but it is much easier to sell out 4 games than it is to sell out a season's worth of tickets year after year. Ask Lonnie Gleberman and the other former owners of CFL football teams.


I'll keep this short:

- Ottawa is equally diverse as Toronto, so no problem there.

Ottawa is as diverse as Toronto but 1/5th the size. There won't be the audience needed to fill a 20,000 seat stadium.

I will be torn. I was born in Ottawa, support the Sens and hate the Leafs to my core. I moved to Toronto and now live and die TFC. It will be hard to root against your home town.

TOBOR !
06-19-2008, 09:57 PM
Initially I'd be inclined to think that an Ottawa franchise would fall flat on it's face and point out the repeated failures of the CFL team there. However, Melnick wasn't behind those teams and he'd add stability for MLS where there was none for the CFL.

I'd go on to point out that TFC draws from the GTA - I drive in from Hamilton for my 1/2 season's tix and I can't wait to get full season's when the opportunity arises - could Ottawa expect the same ? The Ottawa / Gatineau area has a population near 1.5 Million... there would likely be support from Quebec, but how much ? This really does seem to have come from nowhere.

I think Garber would be wise to see how Montreal / Vancouver do before going into a questionable market like Ottawa - if at all.

adampz
06-19-2008, 10:12 PM
Ottawa will not get mls in a while, ive already changed my university plans to york, ryerson, or U of T. Just so i can watch my toronto fc, i doubt mls in ottawa would ever have the same atmoshpere as bmo too.

James17930
06-19-2008, 10:26 PM
I agree with maybe having them start in USL and see what happens. If they could average around 5000 - 6000 there it might show they could handle MLS.

And I'm assuming they'd share any new stadium with a new CFL team, right? So would that mean fieldturf again?

greatwhitenorf
06-19-2008, 10:37 PM
Since the US capital already has DC United - and not likely to get a second team - I recommend that we designate Ottawa as the official site for the Bring Back The Dips campaign.

USL, MLS doesn't matter. Gotta have a team in Ottawa called the Diplomats. The NASL just won't go away. Let's hope they suck, too.

Then we can spin off insults like DipSticks, DipShits, DiPlorables. We're already ready for 'em.

Cashcleaner
06-19-2008, 10:50 PM
Again I see opposition for the idea of a domestic league here in Canada. Are people's insecurities so entrenched?

I know that Canadians as a whole can't even comprehend the idea of going it alone with a home-grown organisation, but let's get some perspective here.

Dirk Diggler
06-20-2008, 12:47 AM
Again I see opposition for the idea of a domestic league here in Canada. Are people's insecurities so entrenched?

I know that Canadians as a whole can't even comprehend the idea of going it alone with a home-grown organisation, but let's get some perspective here.

All I know is that if this was a Canadian league, Canadian business owners such as Saputo and Melnyk wouldn't be salivating over the prospect of getting a piece of the pie. Even if 6 Canadian teams succeed in the MLS, there is no guarantee that those exact same 6 teams will succeed in an all Canadian league. People in Canada just want to support the better product.

RealG-TFC
06-20-2008, 06:20 AM
Again I see opposition for the idea of a domestic league here in Canada. Are people's insecurities so entrenched?

I know that Canadians as a whole can't even comprehend the idea of going it alone with a home-grown organisation, but let's get some perspective here.

Yes, enough of this sucking america's dick.

Although, something (more like everything!) has to change in the CSA first. Because, like ExiledRed said, this would probably be a mistake to hand it over to them.

TFC_Junky
06-20-2008, 07:01 AM
From the CBC

A new player for a possible Major League Soccer expansion franchise north of the border has stepped forward.

The Globe and Mail reported Thursday that MLS president Mark Abbott met last week with Eugene Melnyk, owner of the NHL's Ottawa Senators, about the possibility of bringing the beautiful game to the nation's capital.

No details on how the talks went were given.

Any MLS expansion here will have to wait until a three-year Canadian exclusivity agreement with Toronto FC runs out in time for the 2010 season.

League commissioner Don Garber has previously named Vancouver as a possible expansion site, and Montreal Impact president Joey Saputo has said he wants a team for the city.

Major League Soccer has 14 teams and will add a 15th next season in Seattle, followed a year later by Philadelphia.

Did anyone know about the 3 year exclusivity agreement... this is news to me!

Oldtimer
06-20-2008, 07:54 AM
Canada just doesn't have enough of a market to support a Canadian-only league. Even our "national sport" hockey couldn't survive with a Canadian-only league.

TV rights. The American market is huge, as soccer catches on more and more in the US, we will see more and more money flowing into MLS. Eventually MLS could be one of the higher leagues in the world, after the EPL, Spain and Italy. We should want to be a part of it. Isolationist nationalism won't help. Having the top Canadians actually playing in Canada in a rich league will make us into a footballing nation.

Oldtimer
06-20-2008, 07:57 AM
From the CBC

Did anyone know about the 3 year exclusivity agreement... this is news to me!

You're a little late to the party. That's okay! :)

The very first announcements of MLS coming to Toronto mentioned the 3 year exclusivity, and it's been mentioned many times since.

Toronto is willing to waive the agreement for Montreal's sake (because the rivalry will only help TFC). However, a team in Ottawa might eat into TFC's revenues (not to mention that the Sens have no love from MLSE), so they know full well it won't be waived for an Ottawa franchise.

Keystone FC
06-21-2008, 01:57 AM
I truely believe that Garber wants the old NASL back. Well, at least part of it. I also believe he wants 3 Canadian clubs in the MLS before the smoke clears. TFC is in place and Montreal is pretty much a shoe in (barring expansion to their stadium). Vancouver seems to be a stick in the mud to his plans and even with Steve Nash coming aboard I can't really see the city just saying. 'Steve Nash...well then...okay we'll help you build a stadium.'
I think that Garber is looking for alternates for Vancouver IF they can't get their act together. Plus, this puts pressure on cities like St. Louis to get their ducks in row or they just may miss out on the MLS.

Kooper
06-21-2008, 09:40 AM
Canada just doesn't have enough of a market to support a Canadian-only league. Even our "national sport" hockey couldn't survive with a Canadian-only league.

Granted they are not professional leagues but the OHL, QMJHL and the WHL are dong well for hockey.

GeorgeB
06-21-2008, 09:59 AM
Canada just doesn't have enough of a market to support a Canadian-only league. Even our "national sport" hockey couldn't survive with a Canadian-only league.

TV rights. The American market is huge, as soccer catches on more and more in the US, we will see more and more money flowing into MLS. Eventually MLS could be one of the higher leagues in the world, after the EPL, Spain and Italy. We should want to be a part of it. Isolationist nationalism won't help. Having the top Canadians actually playing in Canada in a rich league will make us into a footballing nation.dont think so.in the nhl all the canadians teams are making money and have growing revenues to the point that they are propping up the league and atleast 10 american franchises.having canadian teams in the league would be hugely successfull as in the case of our beloved tfc

GeorgeB
06-21-2008, 09:59 AM
You're a little late to the party. That's okay! :)

The very first announcements of MLS coming to Toronto mentioned the 3 year exclusivity, and it's been mentioned many times since.

Toronto is willing to waive the agreement for Montreal's sake (because the rivalry will only help TFC). However, a team in Ottawa might eat into TFC's revenues (not to mention that the Sens have no love from MLSE), so they know full well it won't be waived for an Ottawa franchise.ottawa would be a huge rival to montreal and toronto.

CanuckPete
06-21-2008, 11:28 AM
They'd be a perfect fit...

In MLS2. Lower division. Promotions and relegations.

adampz
06-21-2008, 12:18 PM
How many teams is don garber gonna add into the league. Is he aiming for twenty, or gonna keep it at 18? If cities still want mls after 2012, why doesnt he start an mls 2 and put them there. Also put ottawa there

Yeoman
06-21-2008, 12:45 PM
being one of them Ottawa people (well the valley but enough time spent in ottawa to give a say)
I just don't see it as viable. as already stated, look at the failures the city has seen. remember how struggling the senators were having financially just before they got lucky with the players they picked up in the last few years?
alot of people travel into ottawa for anything and everything. I wouldn't want to live there myself.
yes there's alot of technologies and big name biz in the city. but you'd still have to have people show up.
even if there was a team in ottawa, I would still rather drive the extra couple of hours to go to see a Toronto FC game.

ag futbol
06-21-2008, 12:48 PM
I think people's opposition to a Canadian league is warranted.

There just isn't a large enough population base to sustain something that is going to be commerically successful. On top of that, soccer as a spectator sport is still growing around the country. Outside of 3 or 4 areas the idea is going to struggle.

If we have a domestic league, it should be done on a smaller scale with development in mind. That might have some wings. But to try and sell it as top flight, it's going to downgrade the quality and probably be a financial disaster..

Danbwoy
06-21-2008, 01:12 PM
Currently living in Ottawa - this is a hockey city without the interest or funds or time to deal with any other sports. They just lost a AAA baseball team and can't keep a CFL team to save their lives. How is this even a possibility?

TFC-Tyler
06-21-2008, 01:28 PM
I dont care where you live, you sound uneducated. The reason we lost the Renegades had nothing to do with fans, and all to do with the joke that was the ownership.

adampz
06-21-2008, 04:50 PM
Theres more people on this board from ottawa then i thought, we could actually get our own rpb chapter in ottawa.

Yeoman
06-21-2008, 04:52 PM
not to get into a pissing contest
yes there was some good fans there, but not enough clearly since they lost millions each year.
I've heard about ottawa football fans since I have several friends who were born and raised in the ottawa region that use to be renegade nation types of people.
but an empty stadium and poor results is still an empty stadium and poor results

Bobo
06-21-2008, 05:08 PM
I think they should stick to CFL failures.

BeachRed
06-21-2008, 08:43 PM
I think they should stick to CFL failures.

The thing is, football has maxed out. the NFL tried to sell it to other places in the world and it just isn't working.

But soccer is growing everywhere. Is soccer even more popular in europe now than it ever was? It certainly is in Asia and is growing fast in North America.

The whole sports world is changing (well, no kidding, globalization is happening).

Melnyk is smart. In twenty years there will be a pro soccer league in Canada and many CFL stadiums in places like Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg will have soccer teams as the #1 tennant.

RealG-TFC
06-21-2008, 08:53 PM
The thing is, football has maxed out. the NFL tried to sell it to other places in the world and it just isn't working.

But soccer is growing everywhere. Is soccer even more popular in europe now than it ever was? It certainly is in Asia and is growing fast in North America.

The whole sports world is changing (well, no kidding, globalization is happening).

Melnyk is smart. In twenty years there will be a pro soccer league in Canada and many CFL stadiums in places like Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg will have soccer teams as the #1 tennant.

Probably sooner. (20 years is a loooooooooong time, sorry f I make any of you feel old :))

iansmcl
06-22-2008, 10:14 AM
This just makes me think of a Canadian Conference/League like Cash said. Barring a Canadian conference then regional divisions, like Germany has for its third (I think?) division or England has as its... ... sixth (I think again? BSS and BSN...) division. But this can only be probable down the line, TFC can field two or three Canadian starters without much worry but not any more than that. What happens when Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa and Hamilton are all begging to have Adam Braz as their defensive anchor?

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-22-2008, 06:28 PM
being one of them Ottawa people (well the valley but enough time spent in ottawa to give a say)
I just don't see it as viable. as already stated, look at the failures the city has seen. remember how struggling the senators were having financially just before they got lucky with the players they picked up in the last few years?
alot of people travel into ottawa for anything and everything. I wouldn't want to live there myself.
yes there's alot of technologies and big name biz in the city. but you'd still have to have people show up.
even if there was a team in ottawa, I would still rather drive the extra couple of hours to go to see a Toronto FC game.


how many failures have their been in Toronto sports history? toronto was an original memeber of the NBA and that team died...but the raptors are now here. toronto metros croatia and the toronto Blizzard..failed yet TFC is doing well...Ottawa could easily support MLS with the right owners. rather have Ottawa in then Vancouver or Montreal. forgot the toronto Arenas NHL, toronto Marlies, ohl, toronto shooting stars indoor soccer/lacrosse so TO has had its failures over the years.

GingerNinja
06-22-2008, 06:49 PM
They'd be a perfect fit...

In MLS2. Lower division. Promotions and relegations.

Totally agree. Turn the USL into MLS 2nd Division and add a few extra teams.

BeachRed
06-22-2008, 07:33 PM
Probably sooner. (20 years is a loooooooooong time, sorry f I make any of you feel old :))

Well yeah, lot's of things make me feel old:)

I only said twenty years for the whole country - certainly parts of it will have soccer as a #1 or #2 sport before then.

JamboAl
06-23-2008, 10:31 AM
Interesting watching the debate going on. Living here in Ottawa, here's my 2 cents:

1) The VAST majority of Ottawa people only get passionate about hockey. Bad CFL ownership, yes, but even if we had good ownership, would people still show up? I'm not sure. We have a small number of RPB & Voyageur members but we are in the tiny minority. In Toronto, lots of folks between 15-40 yrs old follow soccer & basketball. Here, that same demographic generally follows hockey.

2) We'd have to build a stadium and before anyone asks, no Lansdowne/Frank Clair as it is now is not an option; the place is falling apart! And then where would be put it? Please no, not Kanata for God's sakes!!!

3) Ottawa has to be the most conservative, staid, boring city in Canada. Sorry, I've lived here for 20+ years, I love this town a lot (it's home) but man, people don't like change here. The city is loaded with suburbanites who go home after work and lock themselves in for the evening!

4) Anyone who believes last year's U-20 success is a good springboard has to realize that this town loves events (Jazz Festival, Bluesfest, Tulip Festival, etc). To follow an MLS team from April-October? I'm not convinced...baseball is a good example of the fad-like nature of this city.

Like people have suggested, if we want to try soccer in this town, perhaps Mr. Melnyk would like to go for USL-1. I'm not sure he thinks that "small" scale though.

Mark in Ottawa
06-25-2008, 09:11 AM
The city is loaded with suburbanites who go home after work and lock themselves in for the evening!

And traditionally the city becomes a ghost town on weekends in the summer. Lots of people get out of town to cottages and the like or spend their weekends by the pool in the suburbs.

This makes weekend tilts a challenge to sell. Just ask the departed pointy ball and baseball teams.

rocker
06-25-2008, 09:31 AM
i think Garber is just talking to drum up competition. the more owner groups fighting for spots the better.

J .
06-25-2008, 10:56 AM
Good for them I hope it comes through. I also hope Edmonton or Calgary gets one as well.

If Van City, Mtl, Ottawa and Edmonton as well as Toronto had MLS teams it would be a huge boost for Canadian soccer and good for great rivalries. Think of how many times the MTL ultras would get beat up!

Ossington Mental Youth
06-25-2008, 10:59 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^
Itll never happen, MLS is first and foremost made to build american soccer, they would never put canadian cities that have terrible track records ahead of american ones. I dont blame them. If Calgary/Edmonton and Ottawa are so psyched on it, let them join the USL. I would however like to see Mont and Van join as they do ahve good fan bases, huge money backing and massive potential for Derbies.

greatwhitenorf
06-25-2008, 11:27 AM
If Melnyk is providing his v-e-r-r-r-y deep pockets and high local levels of credibility to ensure the survival of the team for at least five years, there's a decent chance an Ottawa team could work. Rivalries with Toronto and Montreal would certainly spark interest. A grass pitch would work to attract some higher-profile Canadian players.

The Saputo stadium, even BMO Field, are perfect examples of how suitable stadia can be built quickly and at relatively low cost. Melnyk might be competitively-minded enough to not want to let Jeff Hunt and Co. have clear sailing in a relatively good marketplace with a revivied CFL team.

A pre-emptive move by Melnyk and MLS might prove shrewd long-term strategic thinking since the CFL owners will have much shorter pockets and an audience or media unlikely to have much patience with a struggling operation, especially one with stadium issues causing uncertainity. Luring away a small percentage of sponsors or corporate support might be enough to tip the scales against the CFL.

Don't overlook the possibility of gov't money joining the process in building the stadium. Ottawa is, after all, a rather international place. I can picture a gang of cute U-11 all-stars from Nepean showing up on the doorsteps of the embassies selling season ticket subscriptions like they were Girl Guide cookies.

I've got family in Gatineau, across the river, and everyone follows soccer. The kids all play it. With Melnyk on board, I'd bet a lot more people than some think would buy into an Ottawa franchise. Just look what happened the minute deep-pocketed, experienced ownership bought the first Canadian franchise.

AL-MO
06-25-2008, 11:45 AM
This is rather ridiculous at this point. Why would anyone consider Ottawa for anything outside of hockey?

ExiledRed
06-25-2008, 11:58 AM
Too much Dogma.

'It is written that Ottawa could not support a CFL team with it's native white guys, therfore its immigrant communities will not support a soccer team, so speaks the all-knowing voice of Joe Canuck.'

'It is known and recorded that despite having a large population living near and around it, Ottawa is smaller than Toronto, and therefore could not support a MLS team, Joe Canuck has decreed, and so shall it be spoken'

'Joe Canuck has deemed Ottawa to be a 'hockey town' and it is law that 'hockey towns' cannot support soccer teams.

It shall be accepted by all who hold faith in Joe Canuck, that all of the mistruths and assumptions that were once applied to Toronto, prior to it gaining an MLS team, were inaccurate, but when reapplied to Ottawa, they become truth.

greatwhitenorf
06-25-2008, 12:21 PM
Al-Mo: Was that too much information for you in my last post, the one just above your last entry? While some of it is admittedly speculation or extrapolation, it pretty much should answer your question.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-25-2008, 12:31 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^
Itll never happen, MLS is first and foremost made to build american soccer, they would never put canadian cities that have terrible track records ahead of american ones. I dont blame them. If Calgary/Edmonton and Ottawa are so psyched on it, let them join the USL. I would however like to see Mont and Van join as they do ahve good fan bases, huge money backing and massive potential for Derbies.


Ottawa does not have a terrible track record in soccer...just dim sports that don't count like the canadian failure league and triple a baseball. like no one care for mediocre sports like that...MLS would survive in ottawa, and would get off the ground long before the idiotic run whitecaps would.