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Wagner
04-15-2010, 09:11 PM
Why wasn't this communicated better to the supporters?

I went to gates 3 and 3b, get told different messages, "that they were just informed of it when they arrived at work."
Another said I was informed and forgot...

I go to that dude sitting alone at that table by Gate 4.
He has me open up my little Red Flag with Gold Leaf (King Dave hand painted special) The guy sends me back to gate 3b with a game day ops guy...and he just nods to another security guy...and I'm apparently allowed in now. Then the security guy stops me as I enter to confirm with the guy that let me in that I was indeed cleared.

A couple of points.

- I was told that there were too many inappropriate flags/signs last year.
- One of the guys confirmed that they are looking for "Mo Must Go" stuff....but NEE was able to get their stuff in.
- The method is horribly inefficient. So every game i have to go to Gate 4 and be escorted in? Why not have a flag inspector at both Gates 3 and 3b....the dude had to walk back and forth between the table by gate 4 and 3b.

So I had to sign my flag in.
it was retardedly inefficient.
Gate Staff didn't really know what was going on.
And they didn't even accomplish what they wanted to do...NEE had their anti-Mo stuff anyways.

New Procedure Fail.

ArmenJBX
04-15-2010, 09:14 PM
I guess it'll take time for them to get things sorted properly, if indeed they were told when they arrived for work. Hopefully it doesn't become a problem.

nobodybeatsthewiz
04-15-2010, 09:18 PM
seconded on the fail. couldnt get ours inside in time for pre-game / anthem times and had to wait til the end around the 90th or so to prop it up.

jabbronies
04-15-2010, 09:42 PM
My Fellow Supporters,

Tonight I have been subjected to the highest form of censorship from Toronto FC Front Office!!

My banner was not allowed into the stadium due to the nature of the message that was being conveyed!

Here is an image of the banner:
http://www.raviaujla.com/webBlogs/DSC_0149.jpg

I was told by security that there were other banners with similar messages that were also banned from the stadium!!

This is bullshit!! There is no reason that this banner should not have been allowed into the stadium. There is no profanity in the message. No derogatory message toward anyone. This is censorship at it's worst!!

MFG1
04-15-2010, 09:44 PM
well at least you know now who's running things! hahaha, that's brutal really,

volunteer
04-15-2010, 09:45 PM
dissent is intolerable

Whoop
04-15-2010, 09:46 PM
NEE got theirs through.

But yeah that does suck.

TFCtoMUFC
04-15-2010, 09:46 PM
NEE had a banner with NOMO MOJO and another with a pic of Mo's face crossed out.

bigtfcfan
04-15-2010, 09:46 PM
wow I can't believe this wtf

Globetrotter
04-15-2010, 09:47 PM
NEE got some great signs in! NOMO MOJO and a pic of his mug with a diagonal bar through it

ag futbol
04-15-2010, 09:47 PM
lol, why am i not suprised.

We can always chant "fuck Mo Johnston" as often as we want, they can't stop us from bringing that through the gate.

Globetrotter
04-15-2010, 09:47 PM
NEE had a banner with NOMO MOJO and another with a pic of Mo's face crossed out.

echo. lol

drewski
04-15-2010, 09:49 PM
saw this on twitter

Ravi_Aujlam
my "mo must go" banner was taken away.

Sab0tage
04-15-2010, 09:50 PM
Wow, that's pretty shitty on their part.

jabbronies
04-15-2010, 09:51 PM
ya I saw the NEE banner, which really surprised me.

I spoke to security thoroughly before I went in about why I couldn't bring the banner in. He and his partner said that they was told specifically not to let anything in that made specific reference to Mo.

This was about 1 minute after kick off - got stuck in traffic coming in...ya I know..part time supporter...whatever hahaha.

bigtfcfan
04-15-2010, 09:52 PM
take a blank banner in with a marker and make it inside

TFCtoMUFC
04-15-2010, 09:52 PM
Bring this instead.
http://alexanderdenton.net/images/Flag_USSR.jpg

mazinn
04-15-2010, 09:52 PM
We should tie it to about 50 hellium balloons and let fly above the stadium with the wind direction from the parking lot

billyfly
04-15-2010, 09:52 PM
NEE got theirs through.

But yeah that does suck.


You home already?

jabbronies
04-15-2010, 09:53 PM
BTW, I got both the security guards name and his superiors name and he was extremely courteous and willing to answer all my questions. Hats off to them! Boo-urns to TFC!

Shakes McQueen
04-15-2010, 09:53 PM
I want an explanation from Paul B about why this could possibly be justified.

Banners and chanting are something they love to advertise as being great about Toronto FC, until God forbid they dare criticize the general manager? Fuck that.

Explanation, please.

- Scott

billyfly
04-15-2010, 09:54 PM
ya I saw the NEE banner, which really surprised me.

I spoke to security thoroughly before I went in about why I couldn't bring the banner in. He and his partner said that they was told specifically not to let anything in that made specific reference to Mo.

This was about 1 minute after kick off - got stuck in traffic coming in...ya I know..part time supporter...whatever hahaha.

South side discrimination! Next time go thru the new Gate 5.

TFCtoMUFC
04-15-2010, 09:54 PM
I want an explanation from Paul B about why this could possibly be justified.

Banners and chanting are something they love to advertise as being great about Toronto FC, until God forbid they dare criticize the general manager? Fuck that.

Explanation, please.

- Scott

Don't forget, we have good reason to criticize the GM. Not like we do this protest thing for S's and G's.

Waggy
04-15-2010, 09:56 PM
Bring this instead.
http://alexanderdenton.net/images/Flag_USSR.jpg

I got one if anyone wants. Uh, long story

Davenport
04-15-2010, 09:58 PM
Tonight's performance was fukcing pathetic.
We were given that game by the ref but we did not deserve it.
Not one player impressed me.
It looked like they were playing to get Preki fired.

Shakes McQueen
04-15-2010, 10:01 PM
On the... bright side, I guess? If they are issuing specific orders about not letting anti-Mo banners in to games, then they are clearly aware of the full-blown contempt for the shitty job Mo is doing.

It isn't really a bright side though. Censorship like this makes me see red, and we need to demand an explanation from Paul B and Co. about why this order to disallow anti-Mo banners was given.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
04-15-2010, 10:01 PM
Tonight's performance was fukcing pathetic.
We were given that game by the ref but we did not deserve it.
Not one player impressed me.
It looked like they were playing to get Preki fired.

Wrong thread, sunshine.

- Scott

Lucky Strike
04-15-2010, 10:01 PM
My Fellow Supporters,

Tonight I have been subjected to the highest form of censorship from Toronto FC Front Office!!

My banner was not allowed into the stadium due to the nature of the message that was being conveyed!

Here is an image of the banner:
http://www.raviaujla.com/webBlogs/DSC_0149.jpg

I was told by security that there were other banners with similar messages that were also banned from the stadium!!

This is bullshit!! There is no reason that this banner should not have been allowed into the stadium. There is no profanity in the message. No derogatory message toward anyone. This is censorship at it's worst!!

If it's any consolation, I saw someone with a shirt with that exact same slogan (and font) which was clearly visible on TV.

jabbronies
04-15-2010, 10:02 PM
South side discrimination! Next time go thru the new Gate 5.

I was going into gate 3...they told me my banner had to be approved at gate 4. I went to gate 4 and that's where they took my name and denied me entry with my banner.

The banner was sent to fan services in the south end.
I got it back after the game - no harm done to the banner.

This isn't a security guard being overzealous...this banner check initiative was directly from the top!

TFCtoMUFC
04-15-2010, 10:02 PM
I got one if anyone wants. Uh, long story

Interested. LOL. I only have the shirt.

jabbronies
04-15-2010, 10:03 PM
Tonight's performance was fukcing pathetic.
We were given that game by the ref but we did not deserve it.
Not one player impressed me.
It looked like they were playing to get Preki fired.

Lets not bring the game into question here. That's for another thread.

This is bigger then that! This is about FO shutting us up!

TFCtoMUFC
04-15-2010, 10:06 PM
Lets not bring the game into question here. That's for another thread.

This is bigger then that! This is about FO shutting us up!

Heres how I take it:

We have been portrayed through MLS as the "best fans in the league". We are shown as fans who love their team and live by the sword, die by the sword w/e. Now we are actually ready to do something that isn't necessarily good publicity so the team needs to nip it in the bud. I say we all by t-shirts that spell out MO IS A WANKER as a TIFO, everyone gets part of a letter.. No way they stop us on that.

Shakes McQueen
04-15-2010, 10:06 PM
This isn't a security guard being overzealous...this banner check initiative was directly from the top!

Which is why we need to demand an answer from Paul B. This is indefensible.

Turning down banners with swearing or crude imagery I get. Turning down a banner because it's critical? Fuck that, Paul.

- Scott

Davenport
04-15-2010, 10:06 PM
Wrong thread, sunshine.

- Scott

Sorry......where should it go ?

p.s. Don't call me sunshine.

Shakes McQueen
04-15-2010, 10:07 PM
Sorry......where should it go ?

p.s. Don't call me sunshine.

"p.s. Don't call me sunshine" is almost signature-worthy, haha.

It should go in one of the post-game threads, not the thread about banner censorship.

- Scott

denime
04-15-2010, 10:08 PM
Actualy I think they did you a favor,you would look a little bit odd with that two stick at home opener that we won on top of that.

I'm not surprised at all that they did this,MLSE is protecting their product called TFC they don't want to see negative vibe in stadium and I can understand that.It's all about $$$$.

but I'm surprised that you thought you can walk in stadium just like that on gate 3,why didn't you try some other gates or throw two stick over the fence and pick it from inside,or just handed trough the fence to some of RPB?

Sab0tage
04-15-2010, 10:08 PM
Which is why we need to demand an answer from Paul B. This is indefensible.

Turning down banners with swearing or crude imagery I get. Turning down a banner because it's critical? Fuck that, Paul.

- Scott QFT. Hopefully we get an explanation.

TFC Cityboy
04-15-2010, 10:09 PM
I walked past Anselmi at Gate 1 before the match and yelled "FIRE MO" about 2 feet from his ear.

Whoop
04-15-2010, 10:10 PM
This is what I was talking about earlier.

All is well and good when things are "rosy" but as soon as we, as supporters, want to voice our opinions, they want to shut us up.

Waggy
04-15-2010, 10:10 PM
Interested. LOL. I only have the shirt.

For my house in 2nd year Uni, we rocked a Confederate flag, German ww1 naval flag (it's a kickass flag), Japanese WW2 naval flag (again, kickass flag), and a Pirate flag. We went the shock value route. Either that or I'm a Redneck/Racist/Commie/Jap/Nazi/Wilhelm loving Pirate*.


*NO offense intended, using the parlance of the times. If we didn't think it was a harmless joke we wouldn't have gotten them, seeing as many of those are contradictory (the Soviets fought against Germans/Japanese. Confederates hate Japanese, Germans and presumably pirates. Pirates hate everyone. ARRRRRGGGGG!).

Whoop
04-15-2010, 10:12 PM
Actualy I think they did you a favor,you would look a little bit odd with that two stick at home opener that we won on top of that.

I'm not surprised at all that they did this,MLSE is protecting their product called TFC they don't want to see negative vibe in stadium and I can understand that.It's all about $$$$.

but I'm surprised that you thought you can walk in stadium just like that on gate 3,why didn't you try some other gates or throw two stick over the fence and pick it from inside,or just handed trough the fence to some of RPB?

Regardless... save any derogatory or with swearing... if you sit a supporters section you should be able to bring in any kind of banner you want.

What happens if a supporters group wants to do a section wide banner of "Mo must go" for example......?

volunteer
04-15-2010, 10:13 PM
For my house in 2nd year Uni, we rocked a Confederate flag, German ww1 naval flag (it's a kickass flag), Japanese WW2 naval flag (again, kickass flag), and a Pirate flag. We went the shock value route. Either that or I'm a Redneck/Racist/Commie/Jap/Nazi/Wilhelm loving Pirate*.


*NO offense intended, using the parlance of the times. If we didn't think it was a harmless joke we wouldn't have gotten them, seeing as many of those are contradictory (the Soviets fought against Germans/Japanese. Confederates hate Japanese, Germans and presumably pirates. Pirates hate everyone. ARRRRRGGGGG!).

cool story, bro

denime
04-15-2010, 10:13 PM
ya I saw the NEE banner, which really surprised me.

I spoke to security thoroughly before I went in about why I couldn't bring the banner in. He and his partner said that they was told specifically not to let anything in that made specific reference to Mo.

This was about 1 minute after kick off - got stuck in traffic coming in...ya I know..part time supporter...whatever hahaha.

They didn't bring that trough the gate,how naive are you people?

I'm pretty sure they used some of overseas ideas how to smuggle a banner into a stadium.

Gazza
04-15-2010, 10:14 PM
Regardless... save any derogatory or with swearing... if you sit a supporters section you should be able to bring in any kind of banner you want.

What happens if a supporters group wants to do a section wide banner of "Mo must go" for example......?

Asking for another human to lose his livelihood is a little derogatory don't you think?

denime
04-15-2010, 10:14 PM
Regardless... save any derogatory or with swearing... if you sit a supporters section you should be able to bring in any kind of banner you want.

What happens if a supporters group wants to do a section wide banner of "Mo must go" for example......?

You will be stop at the gate,that is what would happen.

redcard
04-15-2010, 10:15 PM
i walked win through gate 3, flag was rolled up, no one asked to see it.

volunteer
04-15-2010, 10:15 PM
Asking for another human to lose his livelihood is a little derogatory don't you think?

mo isnt owed his job

Gazza
04-15-2010, 10:16 PM
mo isnt owed his job

Where do YOU work? Can i come and bring a banner asking for YOU to be fired?

Whoop
04-15-2010, 10:16 PM
It's bush league IMO.

volunteer
04-15-2010, 10:17 PM
Where do YOU work? Can i come and bring a banner asking for YOU to be fired?

if i'm doing a terrible job that affects the quality of the product you're consuming, by all means

Shakes McQueen
04-15-2010, 10:17 PM
Maybe we should just sneak in a section-wide banner that just says "FUCK" to protest.

"MO MUST GO" will seem like a good compromise.

- Scott

jabbronies
04-15-2010, 10:17 PM
Actualy I think they did you a favor,you would look a little bit odd with that two stick at home opener that we won on top of that.

I'm not surprised at all that they did this,MLSE is protecting their product called TFC they don't want to see negative vibe in stadium and I can understand that.It's all about $$$$.

but I'm surprised that you thought you can walk in stadium just like that on gate 3,why didn't you try some other gates or throw two stick over the fence and pick it from inside,or just handed trough the fence to some of RPB?


hahahaha you are something else man. After the game I had constant barrage of people telling me they loved the banner and agreed with it. Why would it be odd?? You think only a handful of people understand what it means? open your eyes man.

As for the "but I'm surprised that you thought you can walk in stadium just like that on gate 3" comment...what are you talking about. I brought a Dichio two stick in there last year no problem. what's different now? Because the message is negative?

You're not surprised they did this? So you agree with supporter censorship? You're ok with them telling us what we can and cannot say in the stadium? because that's what it sounds like.

andyc
04-15-2010, 10:18 PM
Asking for another human to lose his livelihood is a little derogatory don't you think?

Mo isn't part of any humanity I subscribe to.....

Waggy
04-15-2010, 10:18 PM
cool story, bro

Derailing threads is my bag. Baby.

Ok, maybe I started celebrating the win a bit early. But a few :drinking: pregame, with a few more :drinking: at the half, followed by a celebratory :drinking: or 2 isn't the end of the world. We haven't had much to celebrate in... boy... it's been a while... what year is it again?
:scarf:

bones
04-15-2010, 10:18 PM
Thank god for Frank Johnston ;)

Bones...

ochos
04-15-2010, 10:18 PM
i had a 5 min. chat with the head blonde suit today... seemed they're interested to know popular opinion, just not swallow it....

Davenport
04-15-2010, 10:24 PM
"p.s. Don't call me sunshine" is almost signature-worthy, haha.

It should go in one of the post-game threads, not the thread about banner censorship.

- Scott

Good shout.

As you can tell, I'm very frustrated with what's happening here.
They do NOT deserve the support they get.

Gazza
04-15-2010, 10:24 PM
if i'm doing a terrible job that affects the quality of the product you're consuming, by all means

Easy to hide behind your computer and ask for others to be fired. Who knows, you might be incompetent! Maybe Mo can send a pink slip to your manager?

Waggy
04-15-2010, 10:27 PM
Easy to hide behind your computer and ask for others to be fired. Who knows, you might be incompetent! Maybe Mo can send a pink slip to your manager?

I dunno about you, but the block feature on my CP is going nuts today. I always suspected it, but today we found out for sure: some people really DO watch this team as some sort of sado-masochism, simply to get their complaints out. Or get their jollies riling up people who actually care about this team. Either way, I've had my fill. No wonder the FO ignores legit complaints, if these guys were flooding my inbox I'd be hitting the delete button indiscriminately as well.

*edit, not aimed at anyone in particular. Just the general crowd of people who can find the dark side in anything

ManUtd4ever
04-15-2010, 10:29 PM
Wrong thread, sunshine.

- Scott

LOL!

denime
04-15-2010, 10:29 PM
hahahaha you are something else man. After the game I had constant barrage of people telling me they loved the banner and agreed with it. Why would it be odd?? You think only a handful of people understand what it means? open your eyes man.

As for the "but I'm surprised that you thought you can walk in stadium just like that on gate 3" comment...what are you talking about. I brought a Dichio two stick in there last year no problem. what's different now? Because the message is negative?

You're not surprised they did this? So you agree with supporter censorship? You're ok with them telling us what we can and cannot say in the stadium? because that's what it sounds like.


Let's put it this way,I have over 20 years of supporters experience in eastern Europe where everything was restricted and we managed every time to bring it in.
I can give you a book of tricks of how to smuggle forbidden articles in to the stadium,so you will have less headache next time you try to go with banner that is directly against the FO.

I'm sorry but for me what they did is normal procedure in many countries around the world,it is nothing against two stick or you ,it's just makes me laugh how naive that was from you.

volunteer
04-15-2010, 10:29 PM
Easy to hide behind your computer and ask for others to be fired. Who knows, you might be incompetent! Maybe Mo can send a pink slip to your manager?

if mo is doing a great job despite the dissent he has nothing to worry about right?

Gazza
04-15-2010, 10:30 PM
I dunno about you, but the block feature on my CP is going nuts today. I always suspected it, but today we found out for sure: some people really DO watch this team as some sort of sado-masochism, simply to get their complaints out. Or get their jollies riling up people who actually care about this team. Either way, I've had my fill. No wonder the FO ignores legit complaints, if these guys were flooding my inbox I'd be hitting the delete button indiscriminately as well.


Haha...hey, i believe Mo should go too...i just wouldn't be gullable enough to believe you could get into a stadium with a sign that says so...outside the stadium for sure. Hey, why don't you just take the signs up to his condo while you're at it??

Waggy
04-15-2010, 10:33 PM
Haha...hey, i believe Mo should go too...i just wouldn't be gullable enough to believe you could get into a stadium with a sign that says so...outside the stadium for sure. Hey, why don't you just take the signs up to his condo while you're at it??

Agreed 100%. Mo's a shite, but in what planet did people think they could just walk in with signs against a prominent member of the front office? Like Denime says, you gotta be creative! They don't let people bring in their own booze either, doesn't stop people. And you certainly can't be surprised that the TFC front office would try to ban signs protesting the TFC front office. You try and bring it in, if it works, BOOYA. If not, good try

Dunkers
04-15-2010, 10:36 PM
Easy to hide behind your computer and ask for others to be fired. Who knows, you might be incompetent! Maybe Mo can send a pink slip to your manager?


hahah is this for real? Mo is in a position where it is his job to make decisions, and when you make the wrong ones your are respoinsible, and inevitably fired if you make the wrong ones.

Its no different that a General Manager at your local McDonalds or the CEO of a fortune 500 company.

Auzzy
04-15-2010, 10:37 PM
Wow, that's odd. I can think of some pretty easy ways to sneak in a flag or a banner if they're going to make a big deal about it, especially if they're censoring harmless stuff (like Mo Must Go). But I won't mention it here.

Gazza
04-15-2010, 10:38 PM
hahah is this for real? Mo is in a position where it is his job to make decisions, and when you make the wrong ones your are respoinsible, and inevitably fired if you make the wrong ones.

Its no different that a General Manager at your local McDonalds or the CEO of a fortune 500 company.

How many times have you brought signs and pink slips to THOSE types of companies?

He's not pulling a fast one on you, he's just really incompetent! I'm sure his superiors will have had enough soon and fire him.

Beach_Red
04-15-2010, 10:39 PM
I walked past Anselmi at Gate 1 before the match and yelled "FIRE MO" about 2 feet from his ear.

I can't believe that guy can show his face at any Toronto sporting event and not be driven out by angry fans.

__wowza
04-15-2010, 10:39 PM
honestly brother, talk to somone about this. NEE had two huge flags; one with mo's face censored over it, the other with something akin to "mo-mo is a ho-mo" (but dont quote me on that friend told me it said that.

Whoop
04-15-2010, 10:39 PM
It said NO MO MO JO

denime
04-15-2010, 10:41 PM
Agreed 100%. Mo's a shite, but in what planet did people think they could just walk in with signs against a prominent member of the front office? Like Denime says, you gotta be creative! They don't let people bring in their own booze either, doesn't stop people. And you certainly can't be surprised that the TFC front office would try to ban signs protesting the TFC front office. You try and bring it in, if it works, BOOYA. If not, good try

That is exactly what I can't get it aether.

London
04-15-2010, 10:41 PM
i walked in with 60 pounds of banners on my shoulder.

no questions asked.

Whoop
04-15-2010, 10:41 PM
The FO just wants us to be cheerleaders...

__wowza
04-15-2010, 10:42 PM
i was told to check it in at gate 4 (i assumed it was cause i wasnt in a supporters section and/or they wanted to see if i had anything stupid on it), i went through the gate..

me: i was told you had to check this?
woman: by who?
me: the guy at gate 2.
woman: uhhh.. no?
me: okay

(scan my ticket and walk in)

FAIL

London
04-15-2010, 10:42 PM
The FO just wants us to be cheerleaders...


well then the FO can suck my fucking asshole!!!!

Gazza
04-15-2010, 10:44 PM
The best protest is to not show up. This isn't the Leafs. If the supporter's groups go absent from home games, they'll get the point, no?

I mean, it's one thing to support your team, but to be die hard and keep dying, it's ludicrous.

Beach_Red
04-15-2010, 10:47 PM
if mo is doing a great job despite the dissent he has nothing to worry about right?


He's doing exactly what MLSE want him to do. They're raking in the cash and he's getting all the attention. He got his contract extension so if they fire they'll have to pay him off (remember, he's with First Wave, too, just like the entire coaching staff and half the players on the team). And then that'll be more money they don't spend on the team. But they'll be seen to be responding to the fans' wishes.

Shakes McQueen
04-15-2010, 10:48 PM
He's doing exactly what MLSE want him to do. They're raking in the cash and he's getting all the attention. He got his contract extension so if they fire they'll have to pay him off (remember, he's with First Wave, too, just like the entire coaching staff and half the players on the team). And then that'll be more money they don't spend on the team. But they'll be seen to be responding to the fans' wishes.

BR man, I'm not sure if you've noticed, but virtually every post you make these days is talking about MLSE, haha. It's getting to the point where when I see your name, I can actually guess the content of your post pretty reliably. :D

- Scott

Cashcleaner
04-15-2010, 10:50 PM
Why wasn't this communicated better to the supporters?

I went to gates 3 and 3b, get told different messages, "that they were just informed of it when they arrived at work."
Another said I was informed and forgot...

I go to that dude sitting alone at that table by Gate 4.
He has me open up my little Red Flag with Gold Leaf (King Dave hand painted special) The guy sends me back to gate 3b with a game day ops guy...and he just nods to another security guy...and I'm apparently allowed in now. Then the security guy stops me as I enter to confirm with the guy that let me in that I was indeed cleared.

A couple of points.

- I was told that there were too many inappropriate flags/signs last year.
- One of the guys confirmed that they are looking for "Mo Must Go" stuff....but NEE was able to get their stuff in.
- The method is horribly inefficient. So every game i have to go to Gate 4 and be escorted in? Why not have a flag inspector at both Gates 3 and 3b....the dude had to walk back and forth between the table by gate 4 and 3b.

So I had to sign my flag in.
it was retardedly inefficient.
Gate Staff didn't really know what was going on.
And they didn't even accomplish what they wanted to do...NEE had their anti-Mo stuff anyways.

New Procedure Fail.

What fucking priorities this club has. Almost every TFC Supporter to a man has at least one or two legitimate criticisms for this club - many have a lot more. But instead of maybe tackling the issues that we're truly concerned about, they invoke some new banner policy.

Excellent job, TFC. You don't seem to want to solve any problems, you just want to make it look like they aren't there.

FluSH
04-15-2010, 10:52 PM
This is not cool...

FO needs to pick and choose their battles... this was clearly the wrong move.

jabbronies
04-15-2010, 10:52 PM
Let's put it this way,I have over 20 years of supporters experience in eastern Europe where everything was restricted and we managed every time to bring it in.
I can give you a book of tricks of how to smuggle forbidden articles in to the stadium,so you will have less headache next time you try to go with banner that is directly against the FO.

I'm sorry but for me what they did is normal procedure in many countries around the world,it is nothing against two stick or you ,it's just makes me laugh how naive that was from you.

You're right. I was naive. I didn't realize that TFC FO was all about silencing the supporters voices when the message wasn't what they were marketing. If I had known that I would have to resort to trickery in order to bring a non-explicit message into the stadium, I would have taken a different approach.

I was Naively led to believe that this message wasn't banned from the stadium. But now I, and others, know that anything with this tone isn't accepted into the stadium.

Pachuco
04-15-2010, 10:53 PM
Well this confirms that I really should have no shame booing the shit out of this team and the FO when I feel like it. They can censor the banners, they can't censor my mouth.

FluSH
04-15-2010, 10:54 PM
Is this how they build relationships?

WTF?

jabbronies
04-15-2010, 10:55 PM
And for the record, I knew it was beyond the security teams power and I didn't fight and get get angry with them.

This wasn't just one guard that knew the "rules". I spoke casually to 5 separate guards, and they all knew this type of message was not allowed in the stadium.

Whoop
04-15-2010, 10:57 PM
BR man, I'm not sure if you've noticed, but virtually every post you make these days is talking about MLSE, haha. It's getting to the point where when I see your name, I can actually guess the content of your post pretty reliably. :D

- Scott

That is true... LOL

I'm the same way... Beach_Red = MLSE bash thread, plus a mention of Joe Roth or the movie/film/TV industry. LOL

Beach_Red
04-15-2010, 10:58 PM
BR man, I'm not sure if you've noticed, but virtually every post you make these days is talking about MLSE, haha. It's getting to the point where when I see your name, I can actually guess the content of your post pretty reliably. :D

- Scott


Ha ha, yeah, it's true. It's usually in response to the non-stop, "Fire Mo," which have been here since the day he was hired. I do think that all the attention on the GM is counterproductive to improving the team. It would be different of the front office had been fully set up from the very beginning but it wasn't. We've seen the problems here go mush deeper. Maybe firing the GM is a good start, but we treat it like the ultimate solution. The same way we pick goats of individual players, as if now that Garcia is on the bench anyone but an expansion team wouldn't have scored four tonight.

I really do just want to see improvements to the team - the whole team - and that one change in management won't do it. MLSE are a problem, but the fans in Toronto also let them get away with it too easily, blaming the fall guys.

I like idea of total support of the team, but what does it include? All the players or only some? The coaches? Managers? Owners?

FluSH
04-15-2010, 10:59 PM
Fucking retarded move... we were having a good realtionship, and now rather than working together they pull this stunt?

Fiin
04-15-2010, 11:00 PM
We've had our differences as a group in the past... but if there is one thing I think we can all get behind its this is just wrong. Do I mind them checking my banner of swearing or lewdness? Not at all. Do I mind being there early for setup to make securitys life easier. Not in the least. Do I mind that all of the sudden as a paying customer I cant have a banner showing my displeasure for a GM who has yet to deliver a winning season or playoff game? Absolutly.
-Fiin (NEE)

Whoop
04-15-2010, 11:01 PM
Like I said they want us to be cheerleaders...

London
04-15-2010, 11:02 PM
ypJALsJxmDI

volunteer
04-15-2010, 11:03 PM
Fucking retarded move... we were having a good realtionship, and now rather than working together they pull this stunt?

yah but think of mo's livelihood man! lol :facepalm:

FluSH
04-15-2010, 11:03 PM
When I wake up in the morning there better be some bullshit explinantion like: "We hired an intern and he fucked up"

MG42
04-15-2010, 11:03 PM
this is very upsetting

s2cazz
04-15-2010, 11:04 PM
We've had our differences as a group in the past... but if there is one thing I think we can all get behind its this is just wrong. Do I mind them checking my banner of swearing or lewdness? Not at all. Do I mind being there early for setup to make securitys life easier. Not in the least. Do I mind that all of the sudden as a paying customer I cant have a banner showing my displeasure for a GM who has yet to deliver a winning season or playoff game? Absolutly.
-Fiin (NEE)

My sentiments exactly. I have no problem with them wanting to try to keep it clean but this is just horrible and I plan to make my stand.

Shakes McQueen
04-15-2010, 11:06 PM
Ha ha, yeah, it's true. It's usually in response to the non-stop, "Fire Mo," which have been here since the day he was hired. I do think that all the attention on the GM is counterproductive to improving the team. It would be different of the front office had been fully set up from the very beginning but it wasn't. We've seen the problems here go mush deeper. Maybe firing the GM is a good start, but we treat it like the ultimate solution. The same way we pick goats of individual players, as if now that Garcia is on the bench anyone but an expansion team wouldn't have scored four tonight.

I really do just want to see improvements to the team - the whole team - and that one change in management won't do it. MLSE are a problem, but the fans in Toronto also let them get away with it too easily, blaming the fall guys.

I like idea of total support of the team, but what does it include? All the players or only some? The coaches? Managers? Owners?

See? Even your response to me about your constant posting about MLSE, ended up primarily being about MLSE, haha!

- Scott

London
04-15-2010, 11:07 PM
ypJALsJxmDI

Gazza
04-15-2010, 11:09 PM
yah but think of mo's livelihood man! lol :facepalm:

Hey, anytime you want, just tell me where YOU work and i'll be there with my signs and pink slips. Then maybe i can catch it all on film so your wife and kids can see it too!

When it's turned around on you, how does it sound?

Beach_Red
04-15-2010, 11:10 PM
See? Even your response to me about your constant posting about MLSE, ended up primarily being about MLSE, haha!

- Scott


:D:D:D Well, it's true, I think they're doing a terrible job.

And the sign should have been allowed in. There's no excuse.

Whoop
04-15-2010, 11:13 PM
Now I know why AL-MO was pissed. LOL

s2cazz
04-15-2010, 11:14 PM
yah but think of mo's livelihood man! lol :facepalm:

That argument is BS (not directed at you but the argument in general). He took a very public job, it comes with the territory. If we were calling for their head accountant or someone else who is low profile in the organization to be fired I would agree that it is someones livelihood but if you put your face out there your fair game.

volunteer
04-15-2010, 11:16 PM
Hey, anytime you want, just tell me where YOU work and i'll be there with my signs and pink slips. Then maybe i can catch it all on film so your wife and kids can see it too!

When it's turned around on you, how does it sound?

hey like i said, if i fuck up, you or whoever else that deems me responsible for providing an inferior product are welcome to do just that. but i'd love to hear how mo is somehow an exception to this in your eyes?

Whoop
04-15-2010, 11:18 PM
Hey, anytime you want, just tell me where YOU work and i'll be there with my signs and pink slips. Then maybe i can catch it all on film so your wife and kids can see it too!

When it's turned around on you, how does it sound?

Boo fucking hoo.

There's a difference.

He's in professional sports.

When you get into professional sports one of the trade offs you get for making the big bucks is that you'll have to deal with the glory... and the criticism.

It's part of the game. If you want to be a pro athlete you have to be prepared for it. Besides I'm sure Mo has heard/seen worse playing in Scotland.

People will heap praise on you when things go well and they will boo when you fuck up.

If someone is a teacher or a McDonald's worker, they don't have to deal with that. Then again, they likely aren't making six figures.

Gazza
04-15-2010, 11:20 PM
hey like i said, if i fuck up, you or whoever else that deems me responsible for providing an inferior product are welcome to do just that. but i'd love to hear how mo is somehow an exception to this in your eyes?

But you're behind a computer screen. Your co-workers and bosses may think YOU'RE a fuck up, they just can't get rid of you at the moment for whatever reasons.

Mo is in the public eye. He deserves to go, but he also deserves to be treated like a human. Why is it that we forget that when it comes to sports? We're not radicals in Europe. We're Canadian. If you want to protest, don't friggin' show up to the games! Don't buy tickets or over priced beers and Brennan Jerseys. That will tell them all they need to know about Mo.

Shakes McQueen
04-15-2010, 11:21 PM
Hey, anytime you want, just tell me where YOU work and i'll be there with my signs and pink slips. Then maybe i can catch it all on film so your wife and kids can see it too!

When it's turned around on you, how does it sound?

If you want to pay me several hundred thousand dollars a year, you can let people put up signs at my work all day.

While we are at it, let's stop booing the away team during sporting events as well. They are just guys trying to make a living. How would you like it if someone booed you while you were just trying to do your job?

- Scott

s2cazz
04-15-2010, 11:21 PM
Boo fucking hoo.

There's a difference.

He's in professional sports.

When you get into professional sports one of the trade offs you get for making the big bucks is that you'll have to deal with the glory... and the criticism.

It's part of the game. If you want to be a pro athlete you have to be prepared for it. Besides I'm sure Mo has heard/seen worse playing in Scotland.

People will heap praise on you when things go well and they will boo when you fuck up.

If someone is a teacher or a McDonald's worker, they don't have to deal with that. Then again, they likely aren't making six figures.
Theres a great example. If you think your kids teacher is shit are you going to sit back and say oh well its their livelihood? Or are you going to complain to their superiors?

He's a public figure and that comes with the territory.

Gazza
04-15-2010, 11:22 PM
Boo fucking hoo.

There's a difference.

He's in professional sports.

When you get into professional sports one of the trade offs you get for making the big bucks is that you'll have to deal with the glory... and the criticism.

It's part of the game. If you want to be a pro athlete you have to be prepared for it. Besides I'm sure Mo has heard/seen worse playing in Scotland.

People will heap praise on you when things go well and they will boo when you fuck up.

If someone is a teacher or a McDonald's worker, they don't have to deal with that. Then again, they likely aren't making six figures.

I see, that makes them immune to being treated properly...i see...paying for a ticket and bringing an anti mo sign is so counter productive it makes me laugh. If you didn't buy your ticket, that probably would've made for a better demonstration.

Whoop
04-15-2010, 11:23 PM
By the way... I have been booed before and I'm not a pro athlete... LOL

Gazza
04-15-2010, 11:24 PM
If you want to pay me several hundred thousand dollars a year, you can let people put up signs at my work all day.

While we are at it, let's stop booing the away team during sporting events as well. They are just guys trying to make a living. How would you like it if someone booed you while you were just trying to do your job?

- Scott

I'm sure i'm overpaid for what I do, but that doesn't mean you can come into my office and yell profanities at me and hold up pink slips. You'd get your ass carried out onto the street!

s2cazz
04-15-2010, 11:24 PM
I see, that makes them immune to being treated properly...i see...paying for a ticket and bringing an anti mo sign is so counter productive it makes me laugh. If you didn't buy your ticket, that probably would've made for a better demonstration.

If we didn't buy tickets we'd probably lose the team. We want mo to go...not the club.

Gazza
04-15-2010, 11:25 PM
If we didn't buy tickets we'd probably lose the team. We want mo to go...not the club.


You really think MLSE would let this cash cow go?? They'd do a lot more than fire Mo before that happened.

Shakes McQueen
04-15-2010, 11:25 PM
I'm sure i'm overpaid for what I do, but that doesn't mean you can come into my office and yell profanities at me and hold up pink slips. You'd get your ass carried out onto the street!

I'm guessing your job doesn't take place in a big public coliseum.

- Scott

s2cazz
04-15-2010, 11:26 PM
You really think MLSE would let this cash cow go?? They'd do a lot more than fire Mo before that happened.

In order for it to be a cash cow people have to buy tickets
:picard:

Whoop
04-15-2010, 11:27 PM
I see, that makes them immune to being treated properly...i see...paying for a ticket and bringing an anti mo sign is so counter productive it makes me laugh. If you didn't buy your ticket, that probably would've made for a better demonstration.

How is he being treated improperly?

Has physical harm been done to him? Does he go home and cry himself to sleep?

Like I said he's heard/seen worse in Scotland.

What's next? Someone boos they get thrown out of the stadium?

I buy a ticket to support the guys on the pitch... not for the FO.

Fiin
04-15-2010, 11:28 PM
I see, that makes them immune to being treated properly...i see...paying for a ticket and bringing an anti mo sign is so counter productive it makes me laugh. If you didn't buy your ticket, that probably would've made for a better demonstration.

? So then someone else would.. yer out yer ticket to something you love... and MLSE is still up the money... and then to show your displeasure to the person ruining what your love you had that mean taken away... that has to be one of the single worst arguements I have personally witnessed.

Welcome to sports..

Whoop
04-15-2010, 11:29 PM
And if Mo can't handle a couple of signs saying he must go... you know what, he doesn't deserve to run the team.

Beach_Red
04-15-2010, 11:29 PM
But you're behind a computer screen. Your co-workers and bosses may think YOU'RE a fuck up, they just can't get rid of you at the moment for whatever reasons.

Mo is in the public eye. He deserves to go, but he also deserves to be treated like a human. Why is it that we forget that when it comes to sports? We're not radicals in Europe. We're Canadian. If you want to protest, don't friggin' show up to the games! Don't buy tickets or over priced beers and Brennan Jerseys. That will tell them all they need to know about Mo.


Not buying tickets can't be the only form of protest. I want to protest the way the team is run, but I still want to go to the games.

There was nothing wrong or offensive with the sign and it should have been allowed.

I understand your concerns, but that's the way it is. I get negative reviews for my work in newspapers (and those f*&cking anonymous Amazon reviews drive me crazy) but it does come with the territory.

Gazza
04-15-2010, 11:29 PM
How is he being treated improperly?

Has physical harm been done to him? Does he go home and cry himself to sleep?

Like I said he's heard/seen worse in Scotland.

What's next? Someone boos they get thrown out of the stadium?

I buy a ticket to support the guys on the pitch... not for the FO.


Actually, paying for your ticket supports the FO.

Celtic and Ranger fans actually kill eachother over football...should we go that low?

volunteer
04-15-2010, 11:30 PM
But you're behind a computer screen. Your co-workers and bosses may think YOU'RE a fuck up, they just can't get rid of you at the moment for whatever reasons.

uhh they can because they're either my boss or co-workers. nothing is going to stop them or a client from complaining if i cant do my job, just like with everyone else in the real world. trying to feebly make this about me isn't working, dude


Mo is in the public eye. He deserves to go, but he also deserves to be treated like a human. Why is it that we forget that when it comes to sports? We're not radicals in Europe. We're Canadian. If you want to protest, don't friggin' show up to the games! Don't buy tickets or over priced beers and Brennan Jerseys. That will tell them all they need to know about Mo.


ahahah you're laying it on a bit thick now. let's not mince words here and pile more bullshit on top of bullshit. you're solely worried about superficial image aren't you?

s2cazz
04-15-2010, 11:31 PM
Actually, paying for your ticket supports the FO.

Celtic and Ranger fans actually kill eachother over football...should we go that low?

Mo Must GO = Killing each other over a match
?????????

Whoop
04-15-2010, 11:31 PM
Actually, paying for your ticket supports the FO.

Celtic and Ranger fans actually kill eachother over football...should we go that low?

No... I'd rather hold up a sign instead.

Shakes McQueen
04-15-2010, 11:31 PM
I'm sure i'm overpaid for what I do, but that doesn't mean you can come into my office and yell profanities at me and hold up pink slips. You'd get your ass carried out onto the street!

I almost forgot:

I'm also pretty sure the public don't pay good money for tickets to come and watch you do a good job at work.

- Scott

Sparta
04-15-2010, 11:32 PM
Wasnt only flags -- all drums had to be checked -- they sent me to gate 4 -- which they had no idea -- they sent me to a tent between gate 3 and 4 to sign in -- 1 guy for a group of us -- then they had to escort us in -- this is bullshit -- why did they have to check the drum? well they didnt even check it -- just had to sign

it made me miss the banners

this was absolute bullshit -- dont tell me we have to do this every game

BeerBaron95
04-15-2010, 11:32 PM
I thought Marcel and Mike were gonna blow a gasket when they wouldnt let us in with the flags and drums.. Think Marcel was on the cusp of losing it.. lol.

definitely was a pain in the ass.. I got help up and missed pregame and anthems and unrolling of the Yoda banner in my section 109/110/111

brutal!!

Gazza
04-15-2010, 11:32 PM
Alright, Mo will be gone then you will find something else to protest about...

i wish you luck.

s2cazz
04-15-2010, 11:34 PM
Alright, Mo will be gone then you will find something else to protest about...

i wish you luck.
Actually thats a good idea. Lets make a banner about the line ups for the bathroom or the beer stands lol... I think it'd be funny as hell.

Fiin
04-15-2010, 11:36 PM
The point is if you opt to not buy your ticket.. it doesnt go to magical no buy ticket money mlse land... someone else buys it and the only winner is MLSE. I cat speak for ayone else.. but if they fired Mo and the next guy sucked, I would protest him too.. if he didnt.. I wouldnt.. its not like this happened over night.. ot took 3 years of a crap product..

Shakes McQueen
04-15-2010, 11:37 PM
Alright, Mo will be gone then you will find something else to protest about...

i wish you luck.

You're acting as though protesting Mo's continued employment is unreasonable, when even you have conceded you think Mo should be fired - you're just haggling about the fans deciding to make their feelings known in public.

If there's nothing to be upset about - the team is playing well, the front office are doing a competent, professional job, and the tickets aren't wildly overpriced, then I doubt people will have much to protest over.

- Scott

mclaren
04-15-2010, 11:38 PM
This is disgraceful!

zeelaw
04-15-2010, 11:38 PM
That is stupid, and embarrassing.

volunteer
04-15-2010, 11:39 PM
The point is if you opt to not buy your ticket.. it doesnt go to magical no buy ticket money mlse land... someone else buys it and the only winner is MLSE. I cat speak for ayone else.. but if they fired Mo and the next guy sucked, I would protest him too.. if he didnt.. I wouldnt.. its not like this happened over night.. ot took 3 years of a crap product..

but.. but, mo... he's a human being!

flatpicker
04-15-2010, 11:39 PM
I was pretty stupid.

I don't know what they were thinking.

They better get it sorted out.

Gazza
04-15-2010, 11:41 PM
You're acting as though protesting Mo's continued employment is unreasonable, when even you have conceded you think Mo should be fired - you're just haggling about the fans deciding to make their feelings known in public.

If there's nothing to be upset about - the team is playing well, the front office are doing a competent, professional job, and the tickets aren't wildly overpriced, then I doubt people will have much to protest over.

- Scott

To be honest, my only problem was believing you should be able to walk into a stadium with signs saying "fire mo" or "mo must go"

I believe he should've been let go a long time ago. But don't be naive enough to think it is your right to bring in anti mo banners. Of course they're going to be stopped...and good for the lucky few that got through!

That's all i'm saying. Protesting is our right. But inside the stadium is MLSE's turf. I just read an article on how great of a job MLSE believes they're doing because they profit on all of their sport's teams. They're oblivious because they keep raking it in at the gates! So stop going to the gates! Heads will roll! It can't happen at leaf games, but it can happen at TFC games for sure!

Torontotonto
04-15-2010, 11:42 PM
Gazza I've read all your comments and your sounding like a fool...
We don't want to stop going to games or supporting our club, but MO as every other personallity in Sports, Showbiz, or Politics is open season for public praise or ridicule.

Don't know what you do for a living, but if your not in the catagories noted above, you can't compare what ever you do to a public figure.

Is Beach Red (MO) ?

Shakes McQueen
04-15-2010, 11:43 PM
No one is arguing that what they are doing is illegal. They are arguing that it's a really lame dick-move, and censorship - which it most definitely is.

- Scott

Gazza
04-15-2010, 11:47 PM
Gazza I've read all your comments and your sounding like a fool...
We don't want to stop going to games or supporting our club, but MO as every other personallity in Sports, Showbiz, or Politics is open season for public praise or ridicule.

Don't know what you do for a living, but if your not in the catagories noted above, you can't compare what ever you do to a public figure.

Is Beach Red (MO) ?

You make yourself look like a fool if you're unhappy with a product and you keep buying into that product.

I work in business and i know that if consumers are unhappy with my product, i'll know it from lack of production, not by a bunch of whiners with signs telling me i should fire my gm. If they stop buying what i'm selling, then i'll know that my gm is doing a poor job and he'll be let go.

Whoop
04-15-2010, 11:48 PM
Fine... next banner...

http://radicalgraphics.org/albums/Censorship/censorship.sized.jpg

volunteer
04-15-2010, 11:51 PM
No one is arguing that what they are doing is illegal. They are arguing that it's a really lame dick-move, and censorship - which it most definitely is.

- Scott

but dont you see? MLSE is doing US a favour! we have no right to complain! (even though we pay for our seats and they profit from our patronage, just ignore that part)

s2cazz
04-15-2010, 11:52 PM
You make yourself look like a fool if you're unhappy with a product and you keep buying into that product.

I work in business and i know that if consumers are unhappy with my product, i'll know it from lack of production, not by a bunch of whiners with signs telling me i should fire my gm. If they stop buying what i'm selling, then i'll know that my gm is doing a poor job and he'll be let go.

HHhhhhmmmm.... sounds like you're descibing a strike scene to me... a bunch of people with signs to fire their GM...

Cashcleaner
04-15-2010, 11:52 PM
Like I said they want us to be cheerleaders...

I'm gonna be honest, but with the ways things have been going down over the past few weeks, I'm feeling that as well. I mean; yes, we're being asked to take part in some press conferences and have been given some great opportunities to speak with the media and the league and put our thoughts out for others to see and hear, but one could easily argue that its an attempt to appease the group in some way. By the way, I'm not making that accusation myself, just throwing out a hypothetical.

I think the group could find itself in a situation where we'll become the face of the team and will be used to further their marketing and branding, but have little clout on anything of real substance. I dunno. I'm in a melancholy mood tonight, despite the win.

I think we're approaching "push-comes-to-shove" time.

Gazza
04-15-2010, 11:54 PM
HHhhhhmmmm.... sounds like you're descibing a strike scene to me... a bunch of people with signs to fire their GM...

Haha...you're onto something! only OUTSIDE of the stadium where it is allowed.

Whoop
04-15-2010, 11:55 PM
Good thing I didn't bring my flag today.

s2cazz
04-15-2010, 11:57 PM
so will my 75 mile bastard flag not be allowed in? It says bastard on it.

Beach_Red
04-15-2010, 11:58 PM
Gazza I've read all your comments and your sounding like a fool...
We don't want to stop going to games or supporting our club, but MO as every other personallity in Sports, Showbiz, or Politics is open season for public praise or ridicule.

Don't know what you do for a living, but if your not in the catagories noted above, you can't compare what ever you do to a public figure.

Is Beach Red (MO) ?


Wow, I've been insulted a lot in my life, but that's low ;).

The sign should have been allowed in. The field is only rented, it's owned by us, paid for with taxpayer dollars. Any sign that it's legal to walk around with on the street with should be allowed into BMO.

Shakes McQueen
04-16-2010, 12:00 AM
Haha...you're onto something! only OUTSIDE of the stadium where it is allowed.

But your initial argument had nothing to do with legal technicalities. Your entire point was about treating Mo with humanity, and various "how would you like it" scenarios about people saying you should be fired at your place of work.

Now that position has been whittled down to "well, all of that's fine, but in the stadium it's illegal!", which isn't really a point of view at all - it's just a legal clarification, that no one needed clarification on.

- Scott

Whoop
04-16-2010, 12:00 AM
I don't know... if might be deemed "offensive".

Stryker
04-16-2010, 12:00 AM
Don't forget to thank our buddy Paul Beirne for giving us the heads up.
Oh wait... I'm sure he didn't know anything about this.

AL-MO
04-16-2010, 12:01 AM
The last couple pages have been some good reading :D

:lol:

One day you'll learn Gazza.

Sonny Cheeba
04-16-2010, 12:01 AM
No... I'd rather hold up a sign instead.

vic.... i'm going to kick your batty.

Whoop
04-16-2010, 12:03 AM
http://www.ifc.com/makemediamatter/censorship_press_obey2.png

DichioTFC
04-16-2010, 12:05 AM
*sigh* before all the discussion of the validity of calling mo's job came into question..

i can see MLSE's point about censoring something like "fire mo" or whatever. as much as i would an upgrade in that position of our team, allowing signs like that (especially on a game that was televised internationally) makes the ownership look bad more than anything else. i know people who went to raptors game, saw the "Fire Babcock" signs and never went back (they argued that they shouldn't spend money for a team that their own fans didn't support).

the number one job in business is capturing value from the consumer. and if the consumers are ridiculing the product, the likelihood of capturing value from the consumer is thereby diminished.

personally, i didn't mind the mo must go banners, but I think it's poor taste; i'm sure they know by now that mo is on notice from us, they're most likely waiting to see how the season plays out before making a decision on mo.

Waggy
04-16-2010, 12:07 AM
Haha...you're onto something! only OUTSIDE of the stadium where it is allowed.

Ya Gaz, you lost me here. I thought the argument was whether it was surprising the FO would limit criticism of the FO or not. Not whether its proper to levy criticism in the first place. Obviously as the head of a public trust, which essentially every pro sports team is, Mo is a lightening rod for criticism. At the best of times. Given his almost weekly discoveries of new levels of incompetence, he should be protested in the streets. Obviously there are times and places for protests, but IN the stadium IS the place to express our displeasure. We have as much of a right to display our displeasure as the FO does to try and prevent us from doing so. Aren't competing self interests fun?

As for whether or not its proper to criticize a person for being bad at their job, in this day and age people get criticized for being GOOD at their job. Google Coach K, see what people think of him and all he does is win. To run a sports team, just like to play sports for a living, you need thick skin. If criticism bothers him that much, he's in the wrong line of work. If Mo wants the credit for building a successful team, he has to be willing to take the failure for not.

Gazza
04-16-2010, 12:08 AM
But your initial argument had nothing to do with legal technicalities. Your entire point was about treating Mo with humanity, and various "how would you like it" scenarios about people saying you should be fired at your place of work.

Now that position has been whittled down to "well, all of that's fine, but in the stadium it's illegal!", which isn't really a point of view at all - it's just a legal clarification, that no one needed clarification on.

- Scott

I was explaining why you wouldn't be allowed or should ever expect to be allowed to bring a sign or banner in asking for the the GM to be let go. There are many reasons. We can argue the legality all you want, but it won't stop security stopping you at the gate. In the end, they rule all.

The "humanity" also has something to do with it too...showing a bit of class helps every now and then.

Not to mention there are more productive ways of getting someone you want fired, fired...and buying tickets and beer and poutine is not the smartest way to go about it.

That's about the gist of what i was saying.

Yeoman
04-16-2010, 12:09 AM
i'm now going to make a flag that states 'flags must go'
and then start chants direct towards said flag
thankfully i didn't come in with a drum, i'd of asked a few questions

Torontotonto
04-16-2010, 12:09 AM
Wow, I've been insulted a lot in my life, but that's low ;).

The sign should have been allowed in. The field is only rented, it's owned by us, paid for with taxpayer dollars. Any sign that it's legal to walk around with on the street with should be allowed into BMO.

Easy BR, just joking.
Mo's in the Beach and has Red hair.

:scarf::flare::drum::flare::scarf:

AL-MO
04-16-2010, 12:17 AM
Now I know why AL-MO was pissed. LOL

:lol:

Everyone sees why after the fact. I am getting sick and tired of this crap.

Excuses like "Well its the first home game" don't fly with me either. We are in year 4 and we still have issues, yet nothing changes with us. We bring flags, banners, drums and a megaphone to EVERY game and we have been as long as I remember. Hell, I didn't bring in any new banners except for the 2 that came out on the east side. And those were already in the stadium the night before.(yoda)

I have already communicated my concerns to Rooney and Boris and this WILL be dealt with.

Security are basically useless IMO. I have no idea what they are there for other than scanning tickets.

I hate to say this, but we probably all be better off with Cops at the bottom dealing with REAL problems rather than having an army of moron security guards telling me I am not entering the right gate with my flag.

Some of this shit really boggles the mind.

BeerBaron95
04-16-2010, 12:19 AM
:lol:

Everyone sees why after the fact. I am getting sick and tired of this crap.

Excuses like "Well its the first home game" don't fly with me either. We are in year 4 and we still have issues, yet nothing changes with us. We bring flags, banners, drums and a megaphone to EVERY game and we have been as long as I remember. Hell, I didn't bring in any new banners except for the 2 that came out on the east side. And those were already in the stadium the night before.(yoda)

I have already communicated my concerns to Rooney and Boris and this WILL be dealt with.

Security are basically useless IMO. I have no idea what they are there for other than scanning tickets.

I hate to say this, but we probably all be better off with Cops at the bottom dealing with REAL problems rather than having an army of moron security guards telling me I am not entering the right gate with my flag.

Some of this shit really boggles the mind.

FLARES ??!?!?! next time?!!? lol

volunteer
04-16-2010, 12:21 AM
i can see MLSE's point about censoring something like "fire mo" or whatever. as much as i would an upgrade in that position of our team, allowing signs like that (especially on a game that was televised internationally) makes the ownership look bad more than anything else. i know people who went to raptors game, saw the "Fire Babcock" signs and never went back (they argued that they shouldn't spend money for a team that their own fans didn't support).

..and that doesnt sound at all self-serving to you?


the number one job in business is capturing value from the consumer. and if the consumers are ridiculing the product, the likelihood of capturing value from the consumer is thereby diminished.



...in that sense isn't the onus on MLSE to provide value/quality to the consumer? or are you trying to say the onus is on the consumer to stfu and sit on their hands and quietly accept an inferior product for the benefit/sake of the MLSE?

Yeoman
04-16-2010, 12:26 AM
fuck it, i'll bring in my red smoke bombs i've had sitting at my place for a while now
see them touch those while they're going off/after
*note; they're not a cold burn ;)

Gazza
04-16-2010, 12:26 AM
..and that doesnt sound at all self-serving to you?




...in that sense isn't the onus on MLSE to provide value/quality to the consumer? or are you trying to say the onus is on the consumer to stfu and sit on their hands and quietly accept an inferior product for the benefit/sake of the MLSE?

The onus is only on MLSE to provide a product. It doesn't need to be a quality product as long as people will buy it regardless. Then that product becomes valuable to THEM.

The business model has worked for all of their teams. If you build it, the sheep will come.

AL-MO
04-16-2010, 12:30 AM
:lol:

Thing is, we could be real bastards if we wanted to be. But we aren't.

Yeoman
04-16-2010, 12:30 AM
what team's supporters in italy smuggled a scooter in, lit it afire, and tossed it over the fence?
now THAT'S dedication!

AL-MO
04-16-2010, 12:33 AM
I'll say this, 112 has EXCELLENT security and we have not had an issue as long as I remember.

Also the security on the East side was great at the start of the game. They asked what I was down there for, I told said "the banner" and they were fine.

DichioTFC
04-16-2010, 12:34 AM
..and that doesnt sound at all self-serving to you?

...in that sense isn't the onus on MLSE to provide value/quality to the consumer? or are you trying to say the onus is on the consumer to stfu and sit on their hands and quietly accept an inferior product for the benefit/sake of the MLSE?

Of course its self-serving. Nobody's forcing you to consume the product. But it is the reality of the situation. Unless you're intent on starting a revolution, comrade, there isn't much you can do about the capitalistic structure.

You're right, onus is on MLSE to provide value / quality. But if the consumer isn't satisfied with the product, the answer is, once again, for the invisible hand of economics to do away with corporations that fail, precisely by consumers vacating the product. If the consumer feels the product is inferior, they can choose an alternative (another MLS team, another soccer team, another Toronto sports franchise, etc.).

There's an unspoken mutual agreement that they provide a quality service and we pay the amount that we feel is adequate for this service. If you feel the price to be paid is not worth $80 or $40 or $20 then your options are limited to complaining here or to do things that others may question, i.e. negative banners.

Btw, before I get sucked into this BS further, I want to clarify that I want MoJo canned and I'm just personally opposed to bringing in negative banners. However, if negative banners are there, I encourage the right of the person to voice their opinion. I just think it might not be the classiest thing to do.

Whoop
04-16-2010, 12:40 AM
what team's supporters in italy smuggled a scooter in, lit it afire, and tossed it over the fence?
now THAT'S dedication!

L_Nu6HKVSmk

volunteer
04-16-2010, 12:48 AM
The onus is only on MLSE to provide a product. It doesn't need to be a quality product as long as people will buy it regardless. Then that product becomes valuable to THEM.

but it does have to be a quality product if you want people happy with it and if it isnt, it isnt unreasonable for people to complain when there's no alternative.

toronto fc sucking falls on their shoulders, not ours

Ossington Mental Youth
04-16-2010, 12:52 AM
im not involved in any of this stuff but its retarded and im a bit amazed that MLSE thought this would be ok with supporters/supporters groups

Gazza
04-16-2010, 12:54 AM
Sucking actually falls on the fan's shoulders too if they continue to buy into it. It doesn't matter what your sign or banner says if you're filling the seats.

Filling the seats and spending money at concessions shows the FO that they are doing a good job and they should be happy with the status quo. They don't have to care about wins and losses. Their pride comes from their bottom line that they exceed year in and year out because people in this city keep paying for their sub par product.

s2cazz
04-16-2010, 12:55 AM
I like being a bastard

s2cazz
04-16-2010, 12:56 AM
what team's supporters in italy smuggled a scooter in, lit it afire, and tossed it over the fence?
now THAT'S dedication!

That would be Inter... Irriducibili.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/archive/europe/news/2001/0508/20010508interscooter.html

King Tut
04-16-2010, 12:56 AM
We've had our differences as a group in the past... but if there is one thing I think we can all get behind its this is just wrong. Do I mind them checking my banner of swearing or lewdness? Not at all. Do I mind being there early for setup to make securitys life easier. Not in the least. Do I mind that all of the sudden as a paying customer I cant have a banner showing my displeasure for a GM who has yet to deliver a winning season or playoff game? Absolutly.
-Fiin (NEE)

^^^
Seconded.

Trying to censor people's displeasure is not going to solve the issue. In fact, the displeasure will be displayed 10x worse road trips (where the fans get a lot of TV exposure and air time). ;)

WTF is this? North fucking Korea? Next thing you know, people will start disappearing and locked away for angering the great holy leader!! :facepalm:

King Tut
04-16-2010, 12:59 AM
My sentiments exactly. I have no problem with them wanting to try to keep it clean but this is just horrible and I plan to make my stand.

Road trip. They can try to silence us at home all they want, but they'll get it 10x worse on the road and that's a fucking promise! We're not puppets!

volunteer
04-16-2010, 01:04 AM
Of course its self-serving. Nobody's forcing you to consume the product. But it is the reality of the situation. Unless you're intent on starting a revolution, comrade, there isn't much you can do about the capitalistic structure.

the point is it's disingenuous, im not sure from what ass you're pulling the communist bullshit from, but whatever.


You're right, onus is on MLSE to provide value / quality. But if the consumer isn't satisfied with the product, the answer is, once again, for the invisible hand of economics to do away with corporations that fail, precisely by consumers vacating the product. If the consumer feels the product is inferior, they can choose an alternative (another MLS team, another soccer team, another Toronto sports franchise, etc.).

There's an unspoken mutual agreement that they provide a quality service and we pay the amount that we feel is adequate for this service. If you feel the price to be paid is not worth $80 or $40 or $20 then your options are limited to complaining here or to do things that others may question, i.e. negative banners.


the fact is, the price was paid for those seats, whether you choose to applaud or boo after taht is up to the individual after that fact isn't it?

TFC Via Buffalo
04-16-2010, 01:05 AM
so will my 75 mile bastard flag not be allowed in? It says bastard on it.

I got the Bastard 2 -Stick in today. Got in with a whole group that all got sent to gate 4. As we were walking, the guy looked at it and said "I'm not sure that's getting in." It got in.

I swear to God, if I get told to take it back to my car at a future game, I'm going to go nuts. I found out today that people from the front office asked what our deal was, and I was totally flattered that we're known by the office now. We call ourselves Bastards in jest. There is nothing harmful about it. I've had that banner since the middle of last year with not one problem. It's not "Anti-Mo" or telling any of the players to fuck off. Just let me bring in a damn banner that goes up twice or three times a game and isn't harmful.

Ugh, I'm ranting for possibly nothing. I'm just glad we won! :flare:

King Tut
04-16-2010, 01:05 AM
MLSE can eat a dick or two.... that's ridiculous.

"Love Toronto. Hate MLSE"

Nomad
04-16-2010, 01:08 AM
This wasn't an intern who relayed this message. It was actually spoken about during the last SG get-together at BMO. Some of the FO didn't even know about it and the rules don't seem to be complete concrete...more of a "word of mouth" thing. RPB, U-Sector and NEE were present when this declaration was handed down. They have tried to say this was always the policy but they were lax in previous years. We know this as not being true.

What was originally conveyed was that all displays (banners, flags, overheads etc) need to be checked through Gate 4 and approved due to safety concerns with flagpoles and offensive words used in banners. What the real message was is there will be no banners approved that are critical of MLSE or any of it's employees.

I don't see this getting any better, in fact it will get much worse with this "yellow/red card" thing and the snitch phone number to report bad behaviour in the stands. The product on the pitch is not up to par and now they are systematically trying to contain (but ultimately are going to kill) the atmosphere in the stands.

This is a game and they're playing their hand. That is fine, we have anticipated such behaviour and have a few cards to play as well. Bank on it.

volunteer
04-16-2010, 01:09 AM
Sucking actually falls on the fan's shoulders too if they continue to buy into it. It doesn't matter what your sign or banner says if you're filling the seats.

Filling the seats and spending money at concessions shows the FO that they are doing a good job and they should be happy with the status quo. They don't have to care about wins and losses. Their pride comes from their bottom line that they exceed year in and year out because people in this city keep paying for their sub par product.

unless you can show me where there's a stipulation that must be adhered to where you MUST march in lockstep with the MLSE before you can patronize any of their events should you purchase a tfc ticket, that's your conjecture.

King Tut
04-16-2010, 01:10 AM
My Fellow Supporters,

Tonight I have been subjected to the highest form of censorship from Toronto FC Front Office!!

My banner was not allowed into the stadium due to the nature of the message that was being conveyed!

Here is an image of the banner:
http://www.raviaujla.com/webBlogs/DSC_0149.jpg

I was told by security that there were other banners with similar messages that were also banned from the stadium!!

This is bullshit!! There is no reason that this banner should not have been allowed into the stadium. There is no profanity in the message. No derogatory message toward anyone. This is censorship at it's worst!!

Take it to the press. I'm sure the media would be all over a story like this. They told us they don't want banners with any vulgar shit on it, and none were vulgar. But censoring fans' displeasure about a fucking retarded GM who has been a total flop ever since he came here should not go by so easy. If/When the media gets a hold of this story, it'll be worth it. Don't go down without a fight!

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS? NORTH KOREA?

CretanBull
04-16-2010, 01:26 AM
Maybe for the first time in my life I'm speechless. What a shit show. Move the game to a Thursday night to put the fans on display for American television, and then censor those fans at the same time.

"Dance for the organ grinder you monkeys!"

I'm having a hard time articulating my level of disgust right now.

King Tut
04-16-2010, 01:26 AM
This wasn't an intern who relayed this message. It was actually spoken about during the last SG get-together at BMO. Some of the FO didn't even know about it and the rules don't seem to be complete concrete...more of a "word of mouth" thing. RPB, U-Sector and NEE were present when this declaration was handed down. They have tried to say this was always the policy but they were lax in previous years. We know this as not being true.

What was originally conveyed was that all displays (banners, flags, overheads etc) need to be checked through Gate 4 and approved due to safety concerns with flagpoles and offensive words used in banners. What the real message was is there will be no banners approved that are critical of MLSE or any of it's employees.

I don't see this getting any better, in fact it will get much worse with this "yellow/red card" thing and the snitch phone number to report bad behaviour in the stands. The product on the pitch is not up to par and now they are systematically trying to contain (but ultimately are going to kill) the atmosphere in the stands.

This is a game and they're playing their hand. That is fine, we have anticipated such behaviour and have a few cards to play as well. Bank on it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Seconded!

CretanBull
04-16-2010, 01:33 AM
Absolutely disgusting. I've tried so hard to put all the negative stuff behind me and focus on doing what we do best, and the FO pulls this shit.

Well done - you've destroyed 3 years of trust and mutual respect. Bravo.

Jeffro
04-16-2010, 01:47 AM
Okay, I was furious about this.

After defending our team from hordes of haters, after 2 terrible losses, I show up in an organised march with hundreds of supporters and all we get is a run around trying to get into the ground with our colourful flags and banners!? Have they really lost the grip this badly?

Lets be clear. There is only one good thing this club has going for them. That is the fan support. Now they aim to destroy the one thing they have left? PLEASE tell me that the people running this club are not this stupid! Paul???

Rudi
04-16-2010, 03:39 AM
I heard about this from RooneyRPB when I was on my way out. Very strange.

The group I was with all walked in with bags full of flags, flagpoles in hand, the big U-Sector railing banner, not to mention our section-covering overhead. No one was stopped or asked to display their banners/flags for approval.

Given the stadium-wide inconsistencies of what got in and what didn't, plus that new stupid system of checking stuff in (we "checked the big overhead banner in" but only because we had to lay it out hours before the game, the other stuff I mentioned came in shortly before kick off, without checking in), perhaps the security staff are being left to their own judgment to determine what gets in and what stays out now. That doesn't seem very prudent to me, given that the system worked just fine over the past three years.

onemanbarmyarmy
04-16-2010, 05:28 AM
Nothing will be done about this. I gauran-damn-tee it! This is not the place to be if you want RPB to do anything about flag censorship. They have zero pull with FO. Deal with it on your own. Otherwise you will just get to read 5 pages on the semantics of what sports business is from armchair CEOs.

denime
04-16-2010, 05:48 AM
You're right. I was naive. I didn't realize that TFC FO was all about silencing the supporters voices when the message wasn't what they were marketing. If I had known that I would have to resort to trickery in order to bring a non-explicit message into the stadium, I would have taken a different approach.

I was Naively led to believe that this message wasn't banned from the stadium. But now I, and others, know that anything with this tone isn't accepted into the stadium.

And that why we will get more creative and discuss our actions in members only forums.There are many ways to fight this battle,lets start with Canadian way and talk to FO first,if it doesn't work I'm retty sure we have very creative guys in this board who wil come up with some ideas how to send the message that MO MUST GO!

onemanbarmyarmy
04-16-2010, 05:49 AM
Wow. Someone gets assaulted in 112 last year and nothing. Ban a MO MUST GO banner and all heck breaks loose. Arts & Crafts.

onemanbarmyarmy
04-16-2010, 05:52 AM
^You guys are like the Masons or the Mob. When you are done with them they won't ever try to ban a Banner again or they'll be sleepin' with the fishes.

Fiin
04-16-2010, 05:54 AM
I'm gonna be honest, but with the ways things have been going down over the past few weeks, I'm feeling that as well. I mean; yes, we're being asked to take part in some press conferences and have been given some great opportunities to speak with the media and the league and put our thoughts out for others to see and hear, but one could easily argue that its an attempt to appease the group in some way. By the way, I'm not making that accusation myself, just throwing out a hypothetical.

I think the group could find itself in a situation where we'll become the face of the team and will be used to further their marketing and branding, but have little clout on anything of real substance. I dunno. I'm in a melancholy mood tonight, despite the win.

I think we're approaching "push-comes-to-shove" time.

Can I +150324242 this post? :hump:

I_AM_CANADIAN
04-16-2010, 05:56 AM
My Fellow Supporters,

Tonight I have been subjected to the highest form of censorship from Toronto FC Front Office!!

My banner was not allowed into the stadium due to the nature of the message that was being conveyed!

Here is an image of the banner:
http://www.raviaujla.com/webBlogs/DSC_0149.jpg

I was told by security that there were other banners with similar messages that were also banned from the stadium!!

This is bullshit!! There is no reason that this banner should not have been allowed into the stadium. There is no profanity in the message. No derogatory message toward anyone. This is censorship at it's worst!!
That doesn't surprise me, to be honest. There's been a power struggle all along between the fans and the stadium security and stewards who think it's THEIR stadium and in it they get to play god. The fact is that without us, they don't have a job, but I always get the feeling that they very highly resent the amount of freedom that we enjoy within "their" stands, or at least did up until now. People like feeling as if they're in control, and now they're asserting it.

Wagner
04-16-2010, 06:02 AM
This is silly.

a "mo must go" 2-stick...isn't offensive...you aren't calling him names...you're suggesting that he take an action that is simple.

I can't believe we are being censored at a City Owned Facility.

How insecure is MoJo?

If i went to City Hall and wore a "giambrone must go" t-shirt to a council or committee meeting, I wouldn't be asked to leave.

Vecchia Guardia
04-16-2010, 06:04 AM
HJcJKsJsHdU

denime
04-16-2010, 06:18 AM
*sigh* before all the discussion of the validity of calling mo's job came into question..

i can see MLSE's point about censoring something like "fire mo" or whatever. as much as i would an upgrade in that position of our team, allowing signs like that (especially on a game that was televised internationally) makes the ownership look bad more than anything else. i know people who went to raptors game, saw the "Fire Babcock" signs and never went back (they argued that they shouldn't spend money for a team that their own fans didn't support).

the number one job in business is capturing value from the consumer. and if the consumers are ridiculing the product, the likelihood of capturing value from the consumer is thereby diminished.

personally, i didn't mind the mo must go banners, but I think it's poor taste; i'm sure they know by now that mo is on notice from us, they're most likely waiting to see how the season plays out before making a decision on mo.


Great points and this is what MLSE hates more than anything else ,a public embarrassment.

We can leave the stands,don't by beer at the stadium,MLSE doesn't give a damn since we already paid for tickets there are still another 20K they would by beer and food no big deal,but show our displeasure with MLSE and TFC GM on TV or other media is different story and there move to stop MO MUST GO banner just show that negative image in media is what MLSE will fight with all their power.

However we still have away games where we can show how much we "support" MO. ;)

TFC Tifoso
04-16-2010, 07:05 AM
My Fellow Supporters,

Tonight I have been subjected to the highest form of censorship from Toronto FC Front Office!!

My banner was not allowed into the stadium due to the nature of the message that was being conveyed!

Here is an image of the banner:


I was told by security that there were other banners with similar messages that were also banned from the stadium!!

This is bullshit!! There is no reason that this banner should not have been allowed into the stadium. There is no profanity in the message. No derogatory message toward anyone. This is censorship at it's worst!!


disgusting to hear what happened to you last night, jabbronies!

oh well, I guess its all good when they need us to marklet the team, and show they have the "best fans in MLS" since the product has always been sub par, but when we have something to say, then "nope, not allowed"....disgusting....

Pookie
04-16-2010, 07:14 AM
The issue for me is that the whole flag check was stupidly inefficient.

After going to 2 different gates, you are finally told to go to the "Special Desk." You go to the "special desk", he checks your flag, takes down name and seat number, tells you to ask for a guy named "Chris"... then tell "Chris" that "Dave" says it was checked. You get to the gate, find "Chris" and tell him "Dave" ok'd you. So, "Chris" tells the security at the front that "These guys are ok"... they let us in. No one checks the flag at the gate.

What did that accomplish? If the idea was to ban Mo signs, I could have switched it before getting to the gate.

And if the idea is to ban Mo signs... well, that's a WHOLE other issue.

The only thing it did was get my name on some list that's probably in a database by the end of the day... maybe a "Hooligan Watch List"?

TFC Tifoso
04-16-2010, 07:19 AM
We've had our differences as a group in the past... but if there is one thing I think we can all get behind its this is just wrong. Do I mind them checking my banner of swearing or lewdness? Not at all. Do I mind being there early for setup to make securitys life easier. Not in the least. Do I mind that all of the sudden as a paying customer I cant have a banner showing my displeasure for a GM who has yet to deliver a winning season or playoff game? Absolutly.
-Fiin (NEE)

well said Fiin....agree fully

TFC Tifoso
04-16-2010, 07:21 AM
I'm gonna be honest, but with the ways things have been going down over the past few weeks, I'm feeling that as well. I mean; yes, we're being asked to take part in some press conferences and have been given some great opportunities to speak with the media and the league and put our thoughts out for others to see and hear, but one could easily argue that its an attempt to appease the group in some way. By the way, I'm not making that accusation myself, just throwing out a hypothetical.

I think the group could find itself in a situation where we'll become the face of the team and will be used to further their marketing and branding, but have little clout on anything of real substance. I dunno. I'm in a melancholy mood tonight, despite the win.

I think we're approaching "push-comes-to-shove" time.


you got it man....

OneLoveOneEric
04-16-2010, 07:31 AM
Are people surprised by this? Have you ever been to a stadium in the world where those kinds of critical banners are allowed in? I haven't.

GabrielHurl
04-16-2010, 07:34 AM
Are people surprised by this? Have you ever been to a stadium in the world where those kinds of critical banners are allowed in? I haven't.

http://d.yimg.com/i/ng/sp/empics/20100130/17/442219588-soccer-barclays-premier-league-liverpool-v-bolton-wanderers-anfield.jpg

MrHawk
04-16-2010, 07:40 AM
So just make it in a different language?

http://translate.google.com

I_AM_CANADIAN
04-16-2010, 07:46 AM
Are people surprised by this? Have you ever been to a stadium in the world where those kinds of critical banners are allowed in? I haven't.
http://www.sportsillustrated.co.za/files/2009/12/juventus-si.jpg

http://www.footballitaliano.co.uk/images/articles/maldinibanner.jpg

drewski
04-16-2010, 07:52 AM
http://d.yimg.com/i/ng/sp/empics/20100130/17/442219588-soccer-barclays-premier-league-liverpool-v-bolton-wanderers-anfield.jpg


http://www.sportsillustrated.co.za/files/2009/12/juventus-si.jpg

http://www.footballitaliano.co.uk/images/articles/maldinibanner.jpg


question is, where those snuck in or allowed in?

The LUHG signs in Manchester get in but they aren't allowed and get confiscated for the most part when they are unfurled.

MrHawk
04-16-2010, 07:56 AM
Are people surprised by this? Have you ever been to a stadium in the world where those kinds of critical banners are allowed in? I haven't.

Happens all the time in Europe.

brad
04-16-2010, 07:58 AM
Like I said they want us to be cheerleaders...

Agree 100%. Many of us have been saying this since year 2.

NF-FC
04-16-2010, 07:59 AM
We should tie it to about 50 hellium balloons and let fly above the stadium with the wind direction from the parking lot

This is actually a decent idea. I wonder how many balloons it would take to raise a decent sized banner

Parkdale
04-16-2010, 08:02 AM
This is actually a decent idea. I wonder how many balloons it would take to raise a decent sized banner


let's just hope it doesn't drift into the path of the Island Airport. oops!

Hitcho
04-16-2010, 08:08 AM
Maybe for the first time in my life I'm speechless. What a shit show. Move the game to a Thursday night to put the fans on display for American television, and then censor those fans at the same time.

"Dance for the organ grinder you monkeys!"

I'm having a hard time articulating my level of disgust right now.

This is sickening but probably true. :puke:

You know we should make a point about this. Organise a HUGE Mo Must Go chant for 3 solid minutes at the next home game, just to make it known that you cannot shut us up. If we roll over on this, then expect to be rolled over forever. It's not even about the message anymore, it;s just about making it known that we won't let them censor reasonable fan opinions.

I_AM_CANADIAN
04-16-2010, 08:09 AM
Could let it fly but have the bottom corners tied to a string so it won't fly away. 'Tis an idea, actually.

Oldtimer
04-16-2010, 08:10 AM
This is sickening but probably true. :puke:

You know we should make a point about this. Organise a HUGE Mo Must Go chant for 3 solid minutes at the next home game, just to make it known that you cannot shut us up. If we roll over on this, then expect to be rolled over forever. It's not even about the message anymore, it;s just about making it known that we won't let them censor reasonable fan opinions.


Not attending, as has been suggested, doesn't work, as it will be interpreted as lack of interest. We are intensely interested in the success of the team.

They can take away our banners, but they can't stop us from chanting:

MO MUST GO
MO MUST GO
MO MUST GO

Chanting is the best way to get our displeasure across. It will be in the media, guaranteed.


However, the home opener when we are winning is just a plain stupid time to do this.

IMO it's best to give Mo some time. If the team tanks mi-season, a MO MUST GO chant will be very effective in getting the point across to Anselmi (who makes the decision anyways).

Parkdale
04-16-2010, 08:11 AM
question: was there a resolution to the gate entry issue?

(specifically letting us into the normal gates).

If this team wants to make it inconvenient for people with flags and drums to get them into the supporters sections, they are effectively stabbing their golden goose, right in the dick, with a javelin.

Hitcho
04-16-2010, 08:14 AM
Paul B - anything to add? That's not a loaded question, I mean it quite openly. We're all sitting here fuming and feeling principled, but so far all we have is some confused messages from stadium security. In all fairness the FO should be allowed to put its own side across before we pass judgment.

{Although, in a curious twist of irony, would we believe anything the FO had to say after recent events? Tree falling in the forest, tree falling in the forest...}

Hitcho
04-16-2010, 08:15 AM
question: was there a resolution to the gate entry issue?

(specifically letting us into the normal gates).

If this team wants to make it inconvenient for people with flags and drums to get them into the supporters sections, they are effectively stabbing their golden stallion, right in the dick, with a javelin.

fixed! :D

gtaguy
04-16-2010, 08:16 AM
How much would it cost for one of those airplanes to fly by and show those banners they hang.. I'll chip money in to get one of these up in the air just to get our point across in a big way..

http://www.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/Entertainment/2010/bootyism_doomsday_604x341.JPG

boban
04-16-2010, 08:18 AM
This is funny - sadly so. It's a publicly owned building FFS!!
don't see this having a good long term affect for the suits.

Cowboy905
04-16-2010, 08:22 AM
this is a no brainer that they don't allow negative signs in towards your own team. Fans weren't allowed bringing in Anti-Cito signs to the jays home opener either.

Parkdale
04-16-2010, 08:22 AM
This is funny - sadly so. It's a publicly owned building FFS!!
don't see this having a good long term affect for the suits.


yes, it's a publicly owned building, but it's 'managed' by them.
Believe me, I'm 100% behind freedom of banners, but the argument
that it's a public stadium just doesn't hold up. Technically the subway
is owned by the public, but you aren't allowed to yell 'Fire' in there.
The library is publicly owned, but you can't build a fort out of books
(well not in the adult section anyway).

They shouldn't be able to censor critical banners, but the publicly owned building argument doesn't apply.

Beach_Red
04-16-2010, 08:23 AM
Not attending, as has been suggested, doesn't work, as it will be interpreted as lack of interest. We are intensely interested in the success of the team.

They can take away our banners, but they can't stop us from chanting:

MO MUST GO
MO MUST GO
MO MUST GO

Chanting is the best way to get our displeasure across. It will be in the media, guaranteed.


However, the home opener when we are winning is just a plain stupid time to do this.

IMO it's best to give Mo some time. If the team tanks mi-season, a MO MUST GO chant will be very effective in getting the point across to Anselmi (who makes the decision anyways).

Yes, not attending isn't a good idea, you're right, it would be seen as a lack of interest and that's the opposite of what's going on.

But they aren't going to fire anyone in mid-season, we know that. The deal has been made - if the team doesn't make the playoffs, then people will be fired. It's not going to happen before then - even these guys have to be shown to be livng up to their own word if they want to hire anyone decent as a replacement.

In the mentime, if there's going to be a protest, how about demanding a second and third DP like NY is going after - something that will improve the team right now.

boban
04-16-2010, 08:24 AM
yes, it's a publicly owned building, but it's 'managed' by them.
Believe me, I'm 100% behind freedom of banners, but the argument
that it's a public stadium just doesn't hold up. Technically the subway
is owned by the public, but you aren't allowed to yell 'Fire' in there.
The library is publicly owned, but you can't build a fort out of books
(well not in the adult section anyway).

They shouldn't be able to censor critical banners, but the publicly owned building argument doesn't apply.
Bad examples. I mean yelling 'fire' has reactions, repercussions and consequence.
Holding a sign doesn't not!!

By the way, nice black french hat at SJ's :wink:

I_AM_CANADIAN
04-16-2010, 08:25 AM
this is a no brainer that they don't allow negative signs in towards your own team. Fans weren't allowed bringing in Anti-Cito signs to the jays home opener either.
We've seen negative signs at BMO before; anyone remember U-Sec's "Fire the Liar" banner? And others. It's only this year that they're getting all authoritarian, making people 'check in' banners and flags.

Gixmo
04-16-2010, 08:25 AM
i walked in with 60 pounds of banners on my shoulder.

no questions asked.

Correct, Which made for a bigger surprise when everyone carrying flags (Including myself) were turned away at Gate 3, sent to see Chris @ Gate 4, and then on it's way in. I got in at 6:58, I was at the pitch for 6:35. Brutal. It's really odd considering Joe was fully aware of our intentions when he brought us in early & was questioning what else we had left. Even the 2 boys keeping watch knew what we had coming back into the stadium. What did we learn, bring it all in early... Oh ya, also apperently telescopic poles are not cool and the big red flag is 'Too Tall'

Now they didn't check the flag, I just had the big red one up in 111... All they said was what's on it. I said red.. It could have had a giant dick painted on it, so what was the point of that.
so will my 75 mile bastard flag not be allowed in? It says bastard on it.

I'm pretty sure I was it up top in 110? Or another variation.

The whole situation was shocking, I was not pleased whatsoever. The Banner group/Tifo/Flags etc did a damn fine job last night and someone with an ego issue has killed it off. Do you want BMO to be PIzza Hurt Park FFS

Good on ALMO for ensuring the team got in.

Beach_Red
04-16-2010, 08:26 AM
yes, it's a publicly owned building, but it's 'managed' by them.
Believe me, I'm 100% behind freedom of banners, but the argument
that it's a public stadium just doesn't hold up. Technically the subway
is owned by the public, but you aren't allowed to yell 'Fire' in there.
The library is publicly owned, but you can't build a fort out of books
(well not in the adult section anyway).

They shouldn't be able to censor critical banners, but the publicly owned building argument doesn't apply.


That would have to be tested, it might apply. Critical banners are nothing like yelling, "Fire," in the subway. If it's legal to carry the banner on the street - or in the subway - it should be legal at BMO.

But freedom of seech issues are always tricky and fighting for them is never free ;).

Globetrotter
04-16-2010, 08:27 AM
All of this should have been done BEFORE the game. What happened to the pink slip idea? Where they going to search our pockets and take away 2000+ pink pieces of paper?

We should have expected this. We knew it was a nationally broadcast event, and mlse got us. we missed our chance.

Parkdale
04-16-2010, 08:28 AM
Bad examples. I mean yelling 'fire' has reactions, repercussions and consequence.
Holding a sign doesn't not!!



but my point still stands - it's publicly owned property, but managed by a company that sets the rules.

Unless the team was playing on crown land, somewhere south of Hudson's Bay, the property managers will be applying the rules they like.

I don't like those rules either, and yes my 'yelling fire' post was the extreme end of it, but it doesn't change that it's not really a 'public space'.

maybe when it's the NSS we could argue that, but not when it's BMO.

Parkdale
04-16-2010, 08:30 AM
If it's legal to carry the banner on the street - or in the subway - it should be legal at BMO.

I think I answered it in another post - maybe yes at a NSS game (team canada, u-20's) but when it's 'BMO', there is a 'property manager'. And technically, it's also on the CNE grounds, which is a pubic property, but very heavily managed and regulated (except for scalper, doh! )

denime
04-16-2010, 08:31 AM
This is funny - sadly so. It's a publicly owned building FFS!!
don't see this having a good long term affect for the suits.

TRUE but it is a private event,no?

MLSE rents the stadium and applies their rules,whatever those rules might be.

I_AM_CANADIAN
04-16-2010, 08:34 AM
The whole situation was shocking, I was not pleased whatsoever. The Banner group/Tifo/Flags etc did a damn fine job last night and someone with an ego issue has killed it off. Do you want BMO to be PIzza Hurt Park FFS
That's exactly it. I see it every time I go to BMO; there's a power struggle between the security and stewards and the fans. The staff don't like being powerless to stop people from jumping up and down and standing on seats in 'their stadium.' So now they're pulling this card out of their sleeves to shift the balance of power back in their favour. It sends a reminder that they're in control, not us.

They've been getting more and more authoritarian with the fans in the rest of the stadium from seasons 1-3, to the point where now there's no enthusiasm shown at all outside of the 'bunker' and the bottom of 127. Now they're getting more authoritarian with the fans in the southeast corner. It's very disappointing, but it doesn't surprise me at all, because it's been coming.

Beach_Red
04-16-2010, 08:34 AM
but my point still stands - it's publicly owned property, but managed by a company that sets the rules.




No, they don't set the rules. Companies used to sett he rules and we had segregated seating, but they were forced to change that.

I know this isn't the same thing, and this can sound kind of silly, but it does have the same roots. A private company is managing a public space - their rules can't take precedent over the laws of the country and in this country we can walk around with signs that say, "Mo Must Go," or "Stephen Harper Must Go," or anyone we want Must Go.

Adding, "the liar," takes into a different territory, but that's not what was on this sign.

Hitcho
04-16-2010, 08:35 AM
Not attending, as has been suggested, doesn't work, as it will be interpreted as lack of interest. We are intensely interested in the success of the team.

They can take away our banners, but they can't stop us from chanting:

MO MUST GO
MO MUST GO
MO MUST GO

Chanting is the best way to get our displeasure across. It will be in the media, guaranteed.


However, the home opener when we are winning is just a plain stupid time to do this.

IMO it's best to give Mo some time. If the team tanks mi-season, a MO MUST GO chant will be very effective in getting the point across to Anselmi (who makes the decision anyways).

Oldtimer - I completely agree with you in principle. But like I said, this is now about another principle. First test of the waters and the FO (probably Mo himself, which makes me want to vomit) censors the fans. I don;t agree that a Mo Must Go banner would have detracted from team support. Are you telling me that having a few of those banners in the ground would have stopepd the fans from cheering on the team? Would everyone have been quiet and mumbling when De Ro scored the two goals?

We have to be real about this, some MMG banners will not kill the stadiuym atmosphere. In fact, it;s entirely possible for the team to be doing well and to be brilliantly supported by the fans and still have MGM banner asin the ground.

So that leave the only reason for censorship as the FO not wanting the wrong commercial message to come across, or Mo's vanity if it was direct from him. Neither of those are good reasons for anything in my book.

The bottom line is that the FANS keep the money coming in to TFC. It's not the TV rights, the ratings are shit. It's the fans. The MMG banner is not offensive or unreasonable. We could be a good side and still want Mo out for things like breaking promises to players and coaches *cough*, consistently feeding lies and untruths to the fans, having most of the playing squad hate him, being a divisive influence, etc etc etc.

So home opener and winning or not, to me the banners are fair game. There's no reason you cannot have amMG banner and STILL support the team loud and proud.

boban
04-16-2010, 08:35 AM
TRUE but it is a private event,no?

MLSE rents the stadium and applies their rules,whatever those rules might be.
Yeah, but the city gets a cut of the pie at these events, both from tickets and concessions.

Parkdale
04-16-2010, 08:36 AM
TRUE but it is a private event,no?

MLSE rents the stadium and applies their rules,whatever those rules might be.


yep. and as soon as we pay for a ticket, there are rules applied.


this doesn't mean I'm not steamed about the bullshit runaround to get flags and drums checked, only to have them censored.



I think this image sums the whole situation up nicely.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m72/gregflynn/blog/Simpleton_finds_The_Golden_Goose.jpg

Parkdale
04-16-2010, 08:37 AM
Yeah, but the city gets a cut of the pie at these events, both from tickets and concessions.

doens't mean it's a 'public' function. The city gets a cut from a lot of things. They get lots of money from canada's wonderland, the CNE and the CN tower too.

Mikey
04-16-2010, 08:39 AM
Ordering my Mo must go T-shirt right now. Put it on under my TFC shirt, and it's ready at short notice......

Hitcho
04-16-2010, 08:39 AM
yes, it's a publicly owned building, but it's 'managed' by them.
Believe me, I'm 100% behind freedom of banners, but the argument
that it's a public stadium just doesn't hold up. Technically the subway
is owned by the public, but you aren't allowed to yell 'Fire' in there.
The library is publicly owned, but you can't build a fort out of books
(well not in the adult section anyway).

They shouldn't be able to censor critical banners, but the publicly owned building argument doesn't apply.

Haha - Parkdale, have you been busted trying to build a fort out of porno mags? :D:D:D

Gixmo
04-16-2010, 08:39 AM
Let me put it this way - Flatpicker Flag Distribution worked GREAT.

Does this turn off people who were going to use this service now, knowing you are under scrutiny now, need to check in and let everyone know you saw Chris?

It's horseshit, plain and simple. It was a stupid way to kill the home opener. You had a national audience on hand and you dropped the ball FO

Hitcho
04-16-2010, 08:42 AM
You know what would get a good point across? After the next home game, have a few hundred people outside gate 4 with a whole bunch of MO MUST GO banners, chanting:

Weeeee shall not
We shall not be gagged

And also some strong MMG chanting in the stands during game time. If the fans are rolled over this time, it will happen again and again and again.

Beach_Red
04-16-2010, 08:43 AM
doens't mean it's a 'public' function. The city gets a cut from a lot of things. They get lots of money from canada's wonderland, the CNE and the CN tower too.

But they still have to abide by the law, they can't make up any rules they want.

Well, actually they can, but they are open to being challenged and they know it. The guy with the sign could actually take some legal action - and he might win or he might not, it's not a sure thing either way - but that would be expensive and they know it won't happen.

And you're image is right, and what other people have said is right, what they're going to do is drive away the people who care the most. Idiots.

Parkdale
04-16-2010, 08:48 AM
And you're image is right, and what other people have said is right, what they're going to do is drive away the people who care the most. Idiots.


yep. if the people who bring the most on gameday (the banner makes, drummers, flag wavers etc) are also given the hardest time, then it will effectively kill the golden goose.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m72/gregflynn/blog/Simpleton_finds_The_Golden_Goose.jpg


^ also worth noting the image name.

I_AM_CANADIAN
04-16-2010, 08:50 AM
^ also worth noting the image name.
Haha... touche.

jabbronies
04-16-2010, 08:53 AM
Honestly, this was censorship towards anything negative against Mo. Plain and simple. It wasn't a couple guards tripping out or not knowing the rules or doing their own egotistical thing.

The message of no Anti Mo material was relayed to me by two security guards checking in my banner, which was relayed to him by his superior and was known to other guards in the stadium as well - I spoke to 3 others about it.

The security team were told a unified message. No anti Mo banners allowed.

Wagner
04-16-2010, 08:54 AM
Paul B - anything to add? That's not a loaded question, I mean it quite openly. We're all sitting here fuming and feeling principled, but so far all we have is some confused messages from stadium security. In all fairness the FO should be allowed to put its own side across before we pass judgment.

{Although, in a curious twist of irony, would we believe anything the FO had to say after recent events? Tree falling in the forest, tree falling in the forest...}

Calling out the FO directly is silly.

Just knowing that they see this is enough.

Mr. Paul is generally cool enough to share what he can when he can...but calling him out isn't the best idea.

menefreghista
04-16-2010, 08:56 AM
Don't expect Paul B to comment on this issue. He never comments on the tough issues like this.

He just likes to lurk and get a feel for how we're feeling and then occasionally give us some tidbits of info.

But I doubt he'll way in on a touchy issue like this.

Beach_Red
04-16-2010, 09:01 AM
yep. if the people who bring the most on gameday (the banner makes, drummers, flag wavers etc) are also given the hardest time, then it will effectively kill the golden goose.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m72/gregflynn/blog/Simpleton_finds_The_Golden_Goose.jpg


^ also worth noting the image name.

:D:D:D So true!!!

Wagner
04-16-2010, 09:03 AM
yes, it's a publicly owned building, but it's 'managed' by them.
Believe me, I'm 100% behind freedom of banners, but the argument
that it's a public stadium just doesn't hold up. Technically the subway
is owned by the public, but you aren't allowed to yell 'Fire' in there.
The library is publicly owned, but you can't build a fort out of books
(well not in the adult section anyway).

They shouldn't be able to censor critical banners, but the publicly owned building argument doesn't apply.

this is a silly tangent to the over-all issue at hand.
but banners/t-shirts are different from fire and forts.
Yelling fire is a safety hazzard.
Building forts is a safety hazzard and ruins the assets.

Wearing a shirt that says mo must go is an expression or thought.

MLSE who is managing a publicly funded building is saying that they won't allow that thought or expression to be communicated in that building.
which is wrong.

What's next? If someone is wearing a Tim Hudek Shirt, will they be removed because MLSE likes Dalton??

Wagner
04-16-2010, 09:06 AM
Thinking about it more...
if MLSE can pick and choose what messages and banners enter the facilities their teams play in...
can we ban HABS jerseys from the ACC?
or Kobe or Lebron Jerseys?
or Beckham Jerseys at BMO?

Gixmo
04-16-2010, 09:10 AM
^^^ Meh...

Everyone knows this was a targeted campaign to make sure that MoJo was favorable for the National Audience. He did not want to be embarrassed.

He'll get what's comin, He just woke the dragon within the group now.

I_AM_CANADIAN
04-16-2010, 09:11 AM
In the 2004 season the Sens made a rule that if someone wanted to wear a Leafs sweater to the then-named Corel Centre, they had to donate an item of canned food, which had the added advantage of making Leafs fans look evil and un-charitable if they didn't comply. So it's not unheard of.

Wagner
04-16-2010, 09:11 AM
it's just an extreme example.
it'll never happen, but it's a slippery slope.

and as you said.

this probably just made it worse.

they would have been better off with one 2 stick in the south end...

denime
04-16-2010, 09:16 AM
and our next step will be discussed organized in Members only forum to make sure this doesn't happened again.

MLSE :hand::hand::hand:

Beach_Red
04-16-2010, 09:17 AM
^^^ Meh...

Everyone knows this was a targeted campaign to make sure that MoJo was favorable for the National Audience. He did not want to be embarrassed.

He'll get what's comin, He just woke the dragon within the group now.


Yes, it was a targeted campaign, but it wasn't about this particular guy, it was about the team - that's the product they're selling.

When he's gone it still won't be okay to bring in banners calling for the next guy to be fired. This isn't personal, it has nothing to do with this guy, it's company policy and will apply to whoever is the coach or GM next.

Toronto Gunner
04-16-2010, 09:21 AM
If y'all are serious about a protest I would recommend a more subtle approach - such as what the Red Knights did. They simple made green and gold scarves and made it known that these scarves represent their protest. No reason you couldn't do that. This works for two reasons:

1. People notice it. Hey, why are they holding up purple and orange scarves, oh really, you read in the Sun/Star/other crappy local paper that this is part of a protest. neat.

2. you can't ban it.


Just my $0.02. For what it's worth, I like the new team - I'd hate to run into them in a darkened alley.

ParadymeTFC
04-16-2010, 09:23 AM
What can you say, MLSE is taking notes from the lowest of the low.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/mar/12/manchester-united-ban-players-glazers

Oldtimer
04-16-2010, 09:25 AM
I don;t agree that a Mo Must Go banner would have detracted from team support. Are you telling me that having a few of those banners in the ground would have stopepd the fans from cheering on the team? Would everyone have been quiet and mumbling when De Ro scored the two goals?


I didn't say my concern was team support (although I care about that). It has to do with effectiveness.

Rolling out anti-Mo banners right now (particularly when the team is winning) is ineffective and ruins your credibility.

Do you protest for the sake of protest, because it makes you feel better, or do you protest for results?

A protest later in the season if the team does poorly could spur Anselmi to get rid of Mo (he might be leaning that way already if there's no playoff $$$). If you protest all year long, Anselmi will say "Oh it's just those malcontents" and ignore the message.