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View Full Version : Please no anti-Garcia chants on Thursday!



Dirk Diggler
04-12-2010, 12:24 PM
So I don't know if this warrants a separate thread but I usually do not start threads and I think this is quite important. I'm reading all over the boards how people plan on starting anti Garcia chants or just flat out booing him every time he touches the ball and to be honest, that sickens me a bit considering how a lot of those comments are coming from people who are also saying that we should not start any anti Mo protests. That is just ass backwards in my opinion. I understand that at this point in his career, Garcia is absolute shit and I cannot help but pray to all the religious deities invented by mankind whenever I see the ball travel towards his general direction but aside from being over the hill, what exactly has he done wrong to deserve such venom from his own fan base? From all accounts, he seems like an honest, hardworking man who does not skip practices, engage in locker room politics or do any of the things that we don't want a player to do off the pitch. A lot of people on here claim to be "true football supporters" yet not booing your own player, which is something that seems extremely elementary to a self proclaimed casual such as myself, is not so obvious. If you want to vent your frustration, direct it towards Mo and/or Preki. They are the ones who continue to not only keep him on our payroll but also start him every game.

kitchener-TFC
04-12-2010, 12:27 PM
I'm with you. I'd like to see Garcia off of our roster as much as the next guy, but MO is the one that we should be angry at.

FluSH
04-12-2010, 12:27 PM
This post reminds me of those dizzy paterns you need to stare at to look at the hidden image.

Roogsy
04-12-2010, 12:28 PM
Paragraphs please.

werewolf
04-12-2010, 12:29 PM
sweet. We didn't have any Nick Garcia threads yet.

flatpicker
04-12-2010, 12:29 PM
What's wrong with Andy Garcia chants?

Belfast_Boy
04-12-2010, 12:30 PM
if i may.....
yes Garcia sucks, but booing and anti Garcia chants are bad form and shouldn't be done.

Parkdale
04-12-2010, 12:30 PM
They are the ones who continue to not only keep him on our payroll but also start him every game.


suppose maybe that he's not on our payroll? You know a team has to pay out the guaranteed salary even after the player is off the squad? You know, like TFC paying Rickets to hang out at nightclubs, or paying NYRB part of Robbo's salary? Suppose that the only reason Garcia is still playing is because someone else is covering his cost? Maybe.... San Jose?

Azerban
04-12-2010, 12:33 PM
sorry about your bad thread/post

mastermixer
04-12-2010, 12:35 PM
I agree with not booing Garcia, but I'm afraid if even small group of people start it will spread pretty quick.

bgnewf
04-12-2010, 12:35 PM
Looking at Garcia play makes me pine for Andy Boyens and Marco Velez.....


And I never thought I'd ever say that.

DangerRed
04-12-2010, 12:36 PM
suppose maybe that he's not on our payroll? You know a team has to pay out the guaranteed salary even after the player is off the squad? You know, like TFC paying Rickets to hang out at nightclubs, or paying NYRB part of Robbo's salary? Suppose that the only reason Garcia is still playing is because someone else is covering his cost? Maybe.... San Jose?

He seems to be taking the whole "other teams pay my salary" a bit too close to heart, so just look out for when we play the Quakes. He'll definitely put in at least a couple of own goals if the past is any guide!

Gazza
04-12-2010, 12:40 PM
If we believe that our support helps the play on the field, then negativity can only do the same thing, right?

Let's not resort to the level of Leaf fans (i'm a leaf fan, i don't need anyone coming down to my level). Karma suggests that if we boo Garcia, he'll end up in the Hall of Fame!

Roogsy
04-12-2010, 12:41 PM
If we believe that our support helps the play on the field, then negativity can only do the same thing, right?

This man gets it.

Somebody get Gazza a beer.

H Bomb
04-12-2010, 12:41 PM
Screw that. If people want to chant against him they should. So often people seem to think theres a 'way' of doing things. There isnt, do whatever you want, and make garcia feel like a scumbag if you want. It wont matter either way and it might make you feel a little better. Stop setting idle parameters on your behaviour and do what comes natural. And dont for a second worry about hurting a pro athletes feelings.

Whoop
04-12-2010, 12:44 PM
"Mom, they're professional athletes, they're used to this kind of thing, it rolls right off their back!"

http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/straw_sp.jpg

Dirk Diggler
04-12-2010, 12:45 PM
Screw him. If people want to chant against him they should. So often people seem to think theres a way of doing things. There isnt do whatever you want and make garcia feel like a scumbag if you want. It wont matter either way and it might make you feel a little better. Stop setting idle parameters on your behaviour and do what comes natural. And dont for a second worry about hurting a pro athletes feelings.

I'm sorry but shitting on someone for being bad at their job is not something that comes natural to me or a lot of other people. I understand not everyone is as forgiving but I'm not setting any parameters here. I'm sure you don't boo or start swearing at a co-worker of yours for being merely incompetent.

Azerban
04-12-2010, 12:46 PM
guys

we might hurt his feelings

i think if garcia is having fun out there, that is enough for me :)

Gazza
04-12-2010, 12:46 PM
"Mom, they're professional athletes, they're used to this kind of thing, it rolls right off their back!"

http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/straw_sp.jpg
"Daaaaarryl, Daaaaarryl....Gar..uhm...Daaaarryl"

mastermixer
04-12-2010, 12:46 PM
Screw him. If people want to chant against him they should. So often people seem to think theres a way of doing things. There isnt do whatever you want and make garcia feel like a scumbag if you want. It wont matter either way and it might make you feel a little better. Stop setting idle parameters on your behaviour and do what comes natural. And dont for a second worry about hurting a pro athletes feelings.
He's on the team you want to win isnt he? Should he just voluntarily quit the team?
If he is starting it's because Preki and Mo made this team so that there really is no choice. We should be booing them.

nobodybeatsthewiz
04-12-2010, 12:49 PM
rkpvON6IpNs

Azerban
04-12-2010, 12:51 PM
if i had a job where all i was qualified to do was fart into my own hands and smell it, yes, the ethical thing to do would be to voluntarily quit

jloome
04-12-2010, 12:52 PM
I'm sorry but shitting on someone for being bad at their job is not something that comes natural to me or a lot of other people. I understand not everyone is as forgiving but I'm not setting any parameters here. I'm sure you don't boo or start swearing at a co-worker of yours for being merely incompetent.

He's not a co-worker, so this is a specious analogy. We're the customer, he's one of the suppliers.

And more people should be shit on for being bad at their job.

Shaughno
04-12-2010, 12:54 PM
Sorry, I'm not about booing or chanting against players who are wearing our crest. No matter how shit they are.

We are supposed to SUPPORT the team, not put them down. You think they're going to play any better if we start with negative chants?

C'mon. Perfect example was this Saturday, people started singing Anti-Garcia songs... not even a minute later... own goal. Karma.

Whoop
04-12-2010, 12:54 PM
rkpvON6IpNs

"You kept making all the stops?"

"Well, they kept ringing the bell!"

Shaughno
04-12-2010, 12:55 PM
He's not a co-worker, so this is a specious analogy. We're the customer, he's one of the suppliers.

And more people should be shit on for being bad at their job.

I agree, but if you shit on them WHILE they're trying to do their job.. do you think it will help them?

Whoop
04-12-2010, 12:57 PM
"You're Batman!"

Dirk Diggler
04-12-2010, 12:57 PM
He's not a co-worker, so this is a specious analogy. We're the customer, he's one of the suppliers.

And more people should be shit on for being bad at their job.

Ok. So would you boo and hurl profanities at a slow cashier at Tim Hortons for being shit at his job? You would do that rather than asking to talk to the manager and file a complaint with them?

Whoop
04-12-2010, 12:59 PM
Problem is the Tim Horton's manager is more incompetent than the cashier.

Gazza
04-12-2010, 01:00 PM
I agree, but if you shit on them WHILE they're trying to do their job.. do you think it will help them?
I'll be saving my shit for those fine BMO restrooms after a fine BMO Burrito!

And Cheering what's left of my ass off for 90+ mins. Especially when Garcia stands over the ball for one of his Beckham-esque set pieces!

denime
04-12-2010, 01:00 PM
Problem is the Tim Horton's manager is more incompetent than the cashier.

Well you can apply same thong on TFC.Mos is more incompetent then Garcia,no?

H Bomb
04-12-2010, 01:01 PM
Shaughno, no amount of support will make this team better/worse. In order for a team to raise their game they must have the ability to raise their game. Im not advocating boos, theyre as pointless as anything, but also dont avoid them in fear of a worse result. This team does not have the ability to 'up their game'

nascarguy
04-12-2010, 01:03 PM
why do we need athere post about this shit ..!

Shaughno
04-12-2010, 01:03 PM
Shaughno, no amount of support will make this team better/worse. In order for a team to raise their game they must have the ability to raise their game. Im not advocating boos, theyre as pointless as anything, but also dont avoid them in fear of a worse result. This team does not have the ability to 'up their game'


Sorry, unless Garcia does something terrible, like absolutely BRUTAL to the club.. I see no reason to boo or chant negatively about our players.

And from what I saw in the first half, without JDG or Cronin and a fairly depleted roster... WE DO have that ability to step up our game. The problem is getting those boys on the pitch to realize that.

Whoop
04-12-2010, 01:04 PM
^^
Which reminds me, has TFC ever snatched victory away from the claws of defeat?

The only game I can think of is year 2 when they beat LA in LA.

But has this team ever come back from 2 goals down to win a game?

Shaughno
04-12-2010, 01:05 PM
I'm more apt to blame MoPreki for starting him than the little smurf himself.


I was under the impression we didn't have much choice. Gomez and Harden hurt, no other 'official' signed defenders before the match... Garcia HAD to start. Playing Nane at the back solidifies this even more than playing the Latvian who's fresh off an injury.

Shaughno
04-12-2010, 01:07 PM
^^
Which reminds me, has TFC ever snatched victory away from the claws of defeat?

The only game I can think of is year 2 when they beat LA in LA.

But has this team ever come back from 2 goals down to win a game?


Not that I can remember...

That's the one thing I think we've lacked in the first three years... was discipline. Any time we've gone down, the players have looked like they had about as much fire in their belly as a turtle sunbathing on the beach. I'm hoping Preki can and is changing that.

MUFC_Niagara
04-12-2010, 01:07 PM
Garcia is shit.

Whoop
04-12-2010, 01:08 PM
Neil... this is more apt.

Gsxzmkm2vRc

nobodybeatsthewiz
04-12-2010, 01:08 PM
"You're Batman!"

i couldnt find the clip of the on the job heckle i was looking for :)

hahahaha, thanks for the more applicable clip, vic.

Shaughno
04-12-2010, 01:08 PM
Garcia is shit.

Not doubting that at all, aside from a few flashes of decent crosses.... but would you Boo Nani when he's having a run of terrible performances?

P-NUTZ
04-12-2010, 01:09 PM
wow. I pay good cash for my season tickets the past three years because I love soccer soooo much and watching live is one of the best things in the world. BUT, if your team sucks or a player or coach is terribly failing you boo them until something is done. Thats a duty of a fan as welll as clapping, chanting etc.

Ask Yankee, Habs, Juventus etc. fans and they will say the same thing. It sets a standard of passionate commitment that goes both ways - if you really want a winner.and won't accept embarassment.

H Bomb
04-12-2010, 01:10 PM
Sorry, unless Garcia does something terrible, like absolutely BRUTAL to the club.. I see no reason to boo or chant negatively about our players.

And from what I saw in the first half, without JDG or Cronin and a fairly depleted roster... WE DO have that ability to step up our game. The problem is getting those boys on the pitch to realize that.

I hope youre right and im wrong. But ive never seen any evidence of this group, or any group weve had, to be better than what theyve shown. We're shit. I wont boo because its a waste of time. But next time we're losing and the supporters groups think, hey lets all get loud now that the contest is over', ill think to myself, what an absolute waste of energy.

Darlofletch
04-12-2010, 01:11 PM
^^
Which reminds me, has TFC ever snatched victory away from the claws of defeat?

The only game I can think of is year 2 when they beat LA in LA.

But has this team ever come back from 2 goals down to win a game?

Montreal, kind of. Would have been easy to quit after they scored to make us need 5.

Gixmo
04-12-2010, 01:15 PM
Problem is the Tim Horton's manager is more incompetent than the cashier.

Lol, I spit my coffee ...


Well you can apply same thong on TFC.Mos is more incompetent then Garcia,no?

I think that was the general direction he was taking the Timmies reference

In my line of work, being people management.. If you're shit, You hear it.. You either get better, or crack and leave..

The same is in football :)

Shaughno
04-12-2010, 01:17 PM
But who's to say we would have been able to sign any other players if those guys stayed?

Chevy
04-12-2010, 01:18 PM
Montreal, kind of. Would have been easy to quit after they scored to make us need 5.

True. And Garcia played in that legendary game, it's not like he screwed up in that one......


.....hey, wait a minute.....never mind.:facepalm:

KRO
04-12-2010, 01:24 PM
Screw that. If people want to chant against him they should. So often people seem to think theres a 'way' of doing things. There isnt, do whatever you want, and make garcia feel like a scumbag if you want. It wont matter either way and it might make you feel a little better. Stop setting idle parameters on your behaviour and do what comes natural. And dont for a second worry about hurting a pro athletes feelings.
Knowing you as well as I do, I'm surprised at your attitude. I suspect that you are just trying to wind people up.

Garcia can't help it if he's prone to almighty screw ups. It's someone else who puts his name on the team sheet every week. You can hardly expect him to say "don't pick me boss, I'm crap".

The only players that I will give a hard time to are the ones who don't give 100%. The only one that I can recall dogging it for TFC was Laurent Robert in his last couple of games.

Anyone who is chosen to wear our shirt and sent out of the tunnel on Thursday should have our full support. IMO that's what true supporters do.

Give the guys who hire the players and then send them out on the field despite it being obvious that they shouldn't be out there a hard time but not the players.

trane
04-12-2010, 01:27 PM
The only thing about all of this, this is not just about Garcia, we have had Garcia after Garcia, with this club. Our problem is not any one player, it is systemic inability to put a decent footy squad on the field.

jloome
04-12-2010, 01:27 PM
I agree, but if you shit on them WHILE they're trying to do their job.. do you think it will help them?

You damn skippy. That's why they have drill sergeants.

Different people require different approaches. I managed a newsroom of people for seven years and (until the usual "i've been here too long" meltdown) I can tell you, you hire for intelligence. That doesn't mean you always get work ethic as well, but a lazy smart guy is a hell of a lot more valuable than an intrepid idiot.

But the smart guy often requires prodding. Similarly, football players who are absolutely sacrosanct in their belief that they still have it sometimes need prodding.

Here's a hypothetical on the morality involved: you get free tickets to the fights. You show up and find out that the main card is some young stud, undefeated, against a 47-year-old Evander Holyfield, who is still trying to fight, even though almost no jurisdiction on earth will sanction it, because he should have retired.

If people booing him prevented him from fighting and, in all likelihood, being seriously injured, the ends would justify the means, right? Similarly, even mainstream soccer columnists like ESPN's Ives Galarcep and our own Jason De Vos are calling Garcia out as being past it.

If booing is the only way he sees that, it may hurt his feelings a little but a) how much better will it get if he stays longer and b) it's for the good of the team that he JUST STOP PLAYING.

JuliquE
04-12-2010, 01:28 PM
Paragraphs or not, I think this was a very important thread post.. especially with a title so direct to the point.

This surely isn't a charity, and we don't have to stand for such poor play from any one.. but, as a player, he can only try his best to make the starting line up. With all the recently mounting pressure on him to improve, I'm certain he's putting every ounce of effort into his game to avoid all these gaffes; he's not good enough. At the end of the day, it's the ones of whom employ his services that are at fault.

I am one of them who really would like to give Preki the time required for him to build his team, without the handicaps of Mo's past decisions impeding his ability in so doing. He's proven he can assemble the right pieces and instil a befitting mentality for the team to embrace and deserves to coach how he's always done, so I avoid being overly cynical on his every move (sitting cronin and possibly JDG; there may well have been reasons NOT so much to do with him, in those particular cases).

Still.. I'm becoming increasingly frustrated that NG starts every game, and feel like Preki is the only one to blame; I know he's not responsible for bringing him in, but he DOES have options, thin as our roster may be. The good news is, as much as he tries to avoid talking about individual players (preferring to speak about the team, as a whole), he DID single out two or three in the post-game interview.. among those mentioned was Garcia, so maybe he's getting the point.

I don't get the impression that ANYONE has a guaranteed spot in the starting line-up, with Preki.. and it should be NO other way. That said, perhaps Garcia really commits himself at practice.. compared to others who could replace him, who might be sulking at not getting a start -- maybe even making some big, worrying mistakes in practice, of their own. Could just be down to inconsistency, on the part of Garcia (practice versus game performance).. still giving 100% in either case, leaving the blame with Preki, for not identifying his wavering form as a liability (i.e. starting him).

As others have pointed out, he's just a hard-working man playing the game he loves. Seems nice enough, even.. and I've often wondered if he gets along well with the rest of the group (as joking around and such goes), though I fear he may be to close with Mo to be fully accepted. It would benefit us greatly if he'd just retire, but as long as someone is willing to employ him and he feels able-bodied, I don't see why he would. Who are WE to tell someone to give up on something they may have always dreamed about, even if it's fading away from them?!

Might booing him or incessant negative chants work in seeing his removal? Perhaps.. but, at what cost? Anyone know if he's got a family -- anyone care?! This would be a horrible display, and would serve to diminish our credibility as supporters. I think there are other ways to get this done, whilst keeping our humanity in check.

Tschuess

Chevy
04-12-2010, 01:31 PM
Based on performance and the fact the home supporters want to lynch him, I just can't see Preki starting Garcia on Thursday.

Gargan or Harden should start (or Gomez if healthy or Usanov if signed).

jloome
04-12-2010, 01:34 PM
This would be a horrible display, and would serve to diminish our credibility as supporters. I think there are other ways to get this done, whilst keeping our humanity in check.

Tschuess

Yeah, imagine how horrible his life might be if he had to retire at age 33 after a decade of professional football, making more money than 95% of the people who come to watch him fuck up weekly.

This is a SPORT, not a knitting club. I'll argue objective humanism and progressive, pragmatic pluralism day and night. But the man is hurting the institution he professes to represent.

I'm not saying people should protest, I'm saying that if they do and he retires, I'm not going to worry that we're wrecking someone's life, because if that's all it takes, bad traffic on the way home after the game might be enough to put him over the edge

Daveisonfire
04-12-2010, 01:35 PM
^^
Which reminds me, has TFC ever snatched victory away from the claws of defeat?

The only game I can think of is year 2 when they beat LA in LA.

But has this team ever come back from 2 goals down to win a game?

Don't forget the Canadian Cup last year.

That's about it though

H Bomb
04-12-2010, 01:37 PM
Im not advocating booing. But none of the players that wear red deserve any protection. This situation is crap, and it aint getting better. Mo has shown himself. So if you are angry then be angry, and dont worry about etiquette. I wont be booing garcia, ill be doing my usual. Which is pretending hes not on the team until he actually leaves so I can forget him full stop. Its the team I love, the players I could do without.

Whoop
04-12-2010, 01:39 PM
Yes, yes. The game in Montreal.

I'm starting to think that victory did more harm than good.

TFC loses that game. Changes are made a lot quicker.

That game is almost a crutch for everything TFC.

"TFC stinks."
"But remember the great Montreal game!"

trane
04-12-2010, 01:44 PM
^ Agreed. I almost do not care to see wins now. I WANT CHANGES, real ones. every win would just delay what has to be done.

jloome
04-12-2010, 01:49 PM
It's amusing to consider that Chris Cummins, whom everyone was sure wasn't the way forward (and honestly, he probably wasn't) had a .500 record coaching this team, and got us a trophy.

trane
04-12-2010, 01:53 PM
^ for me cummins sealed it with that game in NY, before that it could have gone either way. Good start stubmled, but produced a result when needed, and I had hoped that he would have done it again in NY. But that was a huge fallure. Not ussing Dichio was a concern as well, but there may have been other reasons for that.

ecospice
04-12-2010, 01:56 PM
I'll be saving my shit for those fine BMO restrooms after a fine BMO Burrito!

And Cheering what's left of my ass off for 90+ mins. Especially when Garcia stands over the ball for one of his Beckham-esque set pieces!

Hold everything: are they going to have burritos at BMO this year?!?!

I would be down with booing Garcia, if it could make him quit the team or retire, but I doubt it will. Plus, apparently I will spend my time in burrito and beer lines...and I doubt my wife will let me boo Garcia anyway - for the same reason as the OP.

:scarf:

rocker
04-12-2010, 01:56 PM
^ Agreed. I almost do not care to see wins now. I WANT CHANGES, real ones. every win would just delay what has to be done.

What?!?!

I never want to see TFC lose.

trane
04-12-2010, 02:00 PM
What?!?!

I never want to see TFC lose.

Realy??? That is funny. You seem not to care that we have been doing just that for the better part of three years. You are just fine with it, and anybody that complains you tell them to stop, that it is all fine, just drink the kool aid.

Shakes McQueen
04-12-2010, 02:01 PM
Maybe we could just set up a "support group" for the players, where they can come and tell us how the booing and negativity makes them feel as people, and reassure them that in MLS, as in Timbits hockey, the first goal is just to have fun out there.

- Scott

P-NUTZ
04-12-2010, 02:01 PM
Did someone just say Cummins???? I just ran to the bathroom a barfed up all this garcia....please stop!

JuliquE
04-12-2010, 02:04 PM
Yeah, imagine how horrible his life might be if he had to retire at age 33 after a decade of professional football, making more money than 95% of the people who come to watch him fuck up weekly.

This is a SPORT, not a knitting club. I'll argue objective humanism and progressive, pragmatic pluralism day and night. But the man is hurting the institution he professes to represent.

I'm not saying people should protest, I'm saying that if they do and he retires, I'm not going to worry that we're wrecking someone's life, because if that's all it takes, bad traffic on the way home after the game might be enough to put him over the edge
Fair enough response, and I share mostly the same sentiments; I don't think for a moment that anything I post here will be able to control/influence the masses in any one direction, so that's never my aim -- I won't lose sleep.

It may be that Garcia can contribute in a lower league (i.e. USL2), it's just ludicrous that management feels he can help us here. Would it show that he "lives and dies" by the crest for him to just retire on his own? Sure.. but if he's not wanting to retire and has a family to think about, he's going to always want to play at the highest level.

My post wasn't TOO heavily aimed at criticising people for booing, although I'm sure it reveals my feelings on that. Rather, I was wanting to echo the point about all this venom being misguided.

trane
04-12-2010, 02:09 PM
Maybe we could just set up a "support group" for the players, where they can come and tell us how the booing and negativity makes them feel as people, and reassure them that on MLSE teams, as in Timbits hockey, the first goal is just to have fun out there.

- Scott


I think this would be a factual statement. MLSE says " Do not exepct us to win, just have fun with the atmosphere".

maninb
04-12-2010, 02:14 PM
If he starts I'm booing the useless twat every chance I get...and cheering like hell for the rest of the lads...

ag futbol
04-12-2010, 02:16 PM
It's amusing to consider that Chris Cummins, whom everyone was sure wasn't the way forward (and honestly, he probably wasn't) had a .500 record coaching this team, and got us a trophy.
Fair take. I don't think Cummins was 100% bad but he wasn't the way forward either.

On the other hand, how much advise was he forced to take from our bubbling GM? I'm sure he was dying for an extra CB and a winger or two at the least.

Zeke_Jones
04-12-2010, 02:21 PM
AT the end of the day he's a PRO, step up and make plays, do your job.

mmmikey
04-12-2010, 03:11 PM
i'm not the rowdiest of fans, or one to stand there chanting continuously (hats off to those who do!), nor am i the type to boo and act like a loud mouth at games.

BUT i seriously don't understand why being a "true" supporter=support no matter what.

if a player or the organization does not perform up to the standards set by the SG's tireless devotion to the team (let's face it, the standard of excellence for this team is set by the fans, not set by the organization itself), why should they not be criticized? this does not need to be in the form of booing garcia at every touch, or protesting during the first home game etc.. but continual chanting through mistake after mistake seems like blind devotion. its like the poor puppy who still asks for love no matter how much his jackass owner hits him upside the head. there is something missing in the animals psyche. at a certain point, you guys should value your support and what you have done for the club enough to say, hey! we deserve better! are we saying that all the man utd supporters wearing gold & green scarves are not true supporters? of course not, they come out and cheer on their side, but are still protesting against ownership and it makes them no less of a supporter (aside from those who just want to be cool and follow the trend).

i respect those moderate voices out there who don't want to jump off a cliff yet, but i do not understand those who want to stand there and refuse to admit the cliff exists. one extreme is just as bad as the other.. no insults intended, but some definitions of "true" support seems to be more about "mindless support". there are ways to protest, and criticize while standing by your team!

"the world is gray jack!!!! gray!!" ;)

Broadview
04-12-2010, 03:16 PM
I agree with the sentiment of not booing him. Especially during player introductions, as it's bound to deflate our guys and give a lift to the Philly players.

But I more agree with two other players getting the start at centre back. That's bound to get a huge ovation.

Seriously...Mo, Preki, there's going to be boos whenever your old pal's name is announced. You have the power to prevent this!

koryo
04-12-2010, 03:18 PM
All I will say regarding this thread is that I believe that support sometimes requires brutal honesty.

I simply refuse to cheer Garcia. End of.

If he made the one-off bad mistake, fair enough everyone does. But he does it game in, game out.

How many times does he have to burn the rest of the team with his horrendous play to change some minds around here?

dupont
04-12-2010, 03:19 PM
If people start booing Garcia then the whole team will become distracted by it. It would be a very unwise move as we need this team to feel some home support to turn the season around. I'm sure they already know how shit the first two games were.

trane
04-12-2010, 03:22 PM
^ I am sorry, I am not pro-booing, but this argument that they need support to turn things around, simply does not cut it, we have supported them for three years, what has that turned around?

KRO
04-12-2010, 03:23 PM
i'm not the rowdiest of fans, or one to stand there chanting continuously (hats off to those who do!), nor am i the type to boo and act like a loud mouth at games.

BUT i seriously don't understand why being a "true" supporter=support no matter what.

if a player or the organization does not perform up to the standards set by the SG's tireless devotion to the team (let's face it, the standard of excellence for this team is set by the fans, not set by the organization itself), why should they not be criticized? this does not need to be in the form of booing garcia at every touch, or protesting during the first home game etc.. but continual chanting through mistake after mistake seems like blind devotion. its like the poor puppy who still asks for love no matter how much his jackass owner hits him upside the head. there is something missing in the animals psyche. at a certain point, you guys should value your support and what you have done for the club enough to say, hey! we deserve better! are we saying that all the man utd supporters wearing gold & green scarves are not true supporters? of course not, they come out and cheer on their side, but are still protesting against ownership and it makes them no less of a supporter (aside from those who just want to be cool and follow the trend).

i respect those moderate voices out there who don't want to jump off a cliff yet, but i do not understand those who want to stand there and refuse to admit the cliff exists. one extreme is just as bad as the other.. no insults intended, but some definitions of "true" support seems to be more about "mindless support". there are ways to protest, and criticize while standing by your team!

"the world is gray jack!!!! gray!!" ;)
I agree entirely. I'd give it another couple of games but then protest all you like. However, booing one of your own players is not cool.

Boo the opposition, not one of your own.

tfcleeds
04-12-2010, 03:30 PM
I think I'll be too mesmerized watching Garcia, wondering how he's going to fuck up next, to bother booing him. Watching him play is really like passing by the scene of a car accident.

If Preki starts him though, maybe its time to seriously consider whether our manager is up for the task.

king dave
04-12-2010, 03:32 PM
I treat these guys like Gods in the stands when they are playing well.
I treat them like dogs when they underperform.
But that is at the pitch.
The arena if you like.
And how I treat them outside the arena?
Like I would like them to treat me.
With respect.
KD.

nascarguy
04-12-2010, 03:35 PM
3 fucking pages of bullshit it's time to clean up this shit

rocker
04-12-2010, 03:37 PM
cheer during the game, boo after (if need be).
during the game, my booing is reserved for assholes like Schellotto and Ljundberg.

zeelaw
04-12-2010, 03:39 PM
"Mom, they're professional athletes, they're used to this kind of thing, it rolls right off their back!"

http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/straw_sp.jpg

win... We want home run homer!

sashavukelich
04-12-2010, 03:44 PM
rkpvON6IpNs



lol, in this metaphor the bus is TFC and Kramer is Preki.

canadian_bhoy
04-12-2010, 03:53 PM
Neil... this is more apt.

Gsxzmkm2vRc

Nice game pretty boy
http://i.goal.com/files/images/stats/goal/player-images/23/6823_186x236.jpg

sardinho
04-12-2010, 04:37 PM
can't we just start a thread announcing that garcia's nickname is "Moose"? then the people desperate to boo can do their thing, while the more positive-minded can think, "How sweet".

DichioTFC
04-12-2010, 04:41 PM
Sorry, I'm not about booing or chanting against players who are wearing our crest. No matter how shit they are.

We are supposed to SUPPORT the team, not put them down. You think they're going to play any better if we start with negative chants?

C'mon. Perfect example was this Saturday, people started singing Anti-Garcia songs... not even a minute later... own goal. Karma.

players try to put bad performances behind them, so i'm going to put NE behind me. i'm going to give garcia a chance before i start booing him. if / when he starts screwing up then fine, no mercy. but i'm not going to the game with an "i cant wait to boo nick garcia, that'll show him" mentality.

Zeke_Jones
04-12-2010, 04:51 PM
Hes just a really bad defender, the defence is weak already but he is the mighty putty link in the chain that is our defence.

Booing him will make me feel better, but wont make him play any better.

Somebody mentioned being silent when his name is called out during the pre game. I think its a decent idea, shows MO and Preki that we dont recognize him in our starting 11.

Or maybe all the whining and crying about how crummy he plays will inspire him to score a hat trick on thursday??

Petor
04-12-2010, 05:15 PM
I have tickets for Thursdays game and I will be there to cheer on the home team.
I don't know too many cheers with "boo" in it, actually none.
I will cringe, sigh and moan the odd time during the match but I will not boo my team.

A bad call by an official, a dive by a player, sure I'll let them know my displeasure, but to boo a player at home thats on your own team before the match even starts in my opinion is not right, not just the home opener, anytime.

They have had a rough start so far, they need all the support that they can get now. :scarf:

Super
04-12-2010, 05:20 PM
I think it's incredibly bad form to boo any of our players DURING the game. No doubt some people will do it, but it won't be me.

Detroit_TFC
04-12-2010, 05:24 PM
Lahey: Do you know what a shit barometer is, Bubs?



Edit...
Not in reference to anything particular, but seemed like an appropriate quote.

GlenM
04-12-2010, 05:26 PM
Lahey: Do you know what a shit barometer is, Bubs?


Good one.

GlenM

J .
04-12-2010, 05:45 PM
I think we should focus on getting behind the team. Not booing plays who wear our colours, its demoralizing for everyone else out on the pitch, not just the player in question.

TFC_4_Life
04-12-2010, 05:54 PM
I agree we shouldn't boo Garcia. It is the coaching and management that chose him and plays him. Garcia is just trying his hardest, unfortunately that is no longer good enough to play at this level.

Don't boo our own player, direct our energies to the front office.

TFC_4_Life
04-12-2010, 05:56 PM
Also.

As bad as things have been, our team and our players need us now more then ever. They need a really supportive crowd to get them going and bring the team spirits up.

I'm all for off field protests to front office and other media outlets to get the word out that we are not happy with what is going on and won't settle for below quality soccer. But i still support the boys on the field and well do so in a positive manner.

nimamalek
04-12-2010, 06:31 PM
If he plays i'm booing him, you guys are free to do whatever you like

Pachuco
04-12-2010, 07:07 PM
I you want to boo, boo. If you don't, don't.

I'm personally going to enjoy myself and cheer on the team. Unless Garcia walks on the pitch :)

I_AM_CANADIAN
04-12-2010, 07:12 PM
No, I will not boo one of our own players. Hell, we never booed Cunningham, and he was arguably shittier than Garcia. Garcia needs to be benched, and then shipped off to USL-2, but while he's on the pitch, I won't boo him.

TOBOR !
04-12-2010, 07:52 PM
I ain't gonna read all this, but I will say that my plan is to shout " Garcia... see ya... see ya" when they announce his name.

After that I won't touch him until he does something of note - in which case it'll be applause and appreciation, or (more likely) cat-calls and pure, unadulterated sarcasm.

The end.

Kevin
04-12-2010, 08:26 PM
No, I will not boo one of our own players. Hell, we never booed Cunningham, and he was arguably shittier than Garcia. Garcia needs to be benched, and then shipped off to USL-2, but while he's on the pitch, I won't boo him.

He'd probably fit in well with my Battery! ... *sigh*:facepalm:

jazzy
04-12-2010, 09:04 PM
Ok. So would you boo and hurl profanities at a slow cashier at Tim Hortons for being shit at his job? You would do that rather than asking to talk to the manager and file a complaint with them?

Good point, Although I am so confused on this issue, and actually I would never insult anyone for being shit at their job as you should always put things into a personel perspective...their newness, nervousness etc,unless they were purposely insulting , ...class IS the ONLY way to go!...BUT god help us, and the crowd, when he starts (we know he will, because of all I can see; as corruption in the house), Mr. NG screws up again....I will not boo, esp for no reason, new day I guess, but if I see a repeat of the last 3 games, I will probably blow, scream, yell or have a heart attack....pick 1;;.......No stadium beer, food, or new merch, until we as a team earn and receive respect! One can never gain by getting personal in our negativity......BUT feel gloriously free to exhibit negativity towards the situation as a whole, if things DO NOT change! Or learn to become a leaf fan

mclaren
04-12-2010, 09:05 PM
Agree with no anti-Garcia chants. I think he's a terrible player but if he's playing for us we need to support him while he's on the pitch. Anti-Mo chants on the other hand...

Yagbod
04-12-2010, 09:11 PM
I'd be surprised if he plays. Even Precki was down on him in a big way after the game.

nascarguy
04-12-2010, 09:17 PM
guys good luck with getting 20,000+ poeple not to boo garcia. I'm no leaf fan and will not going start to act like one. But I will show up to every game join in to what my sec is doing.

sweetlemon69
04-12-2010, 09:34 PM
fullbacks need all the confidence they can get. last thing we need is Garcia shitting the bed and giving up even more goals.

Kevvv
04-12-2010, 09:36 PM
But I will show up to every game join in to what my sec is doing.


And if your section jumped in the lake...















I would start to drink Disani

nascarguy
04-12-2010, 09:43 PM
And if your section jumped in the lake...















I would start to drink Disani
if my sec was to jump in the lake I'll tell them to go fuck them seft and go get a beer....lol:drinking:


do you hear that king dave....lol

I_AM_CANADIAN
04-12-2010, 09:47 PM
I would start to drink Disani
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I found that funny, anyway. :D

onemanbarmyarmy
04-12-2010, 09:48 PM
This "Don't Boo Garcia" thing will be a thing of the past if he pulls another weak-pass-to-keeper/interception-for-a-goal at BMO Thurs. You heard it hear first.

I personally don't think he will touch the pitch. Take that to the bank and smoke it!

tfc2007
04-12-2010, 09:49 PM
With the 2 players signed today I think his days are numberd with the club...

and by think, i mean hope.

I_AM_CANADIAN
04-12-2010, 09:51 PM
^ If he's not on the pitch, which I hope is the case, then it's a non-issue.

onemanbarmyarmy
04-12-2010, 09:54 PM
I f he is on the pitch I guarantee the first scenario to be a for sure!

Dirk Diggler
04-12-2010, 09:55 PM
I think someone mentioned that they still have to get their documents in order and it is not a certainty that they would be available to play by Thursday.

Super
04-12-2010, 09:55 PM
This "Don't Boo Garcia" thing will be a thing of the past if he pulls another weak-pass-to-keeper/interception-for-a-goal at BMO Thurs. You heard it hear first.

I personally don't think he will touch the pitch. Take that to the bank and smoke it!

I hope you're right. I honestly would rather boo Preki than Garcia if Garcia plays, simply because Preki should know better. Garcia, well, I honestly do believe that he is playing as well as he can - so it's like yelling at a guy for not being taller. Preki, on the other hand, cost us the last game - and if he plays Garcia again it will quite possibly be another 3 points lost.

SweetOwnGoal
04-12-2010, 09:55 PM
fullbacks need all the confidence they can get. last thing we need is Garcia shitting the bed and giving up even more goals.

Not to be an ass, but he's not a fullback. He's a centreback. We'd really be screwed if he was lined-up at fullback as you can hide his lack of pace a bit in the middle...

onemanbarmyarmy
04-12-2010, 09:57 PM
I hope you're right. I honestly would rather boo Preki than Garcia if Garcia plays, simply because Preki should know better. Garcia, well, I honestly do believe that he is playing as well as he can - so it's like yelling at a guy for not being taller. Preki, on the other hand, cost us the last game - and if he plays Garcia again it will quite possibly be another 3 points lost.

Very PC of you. I would have used another unchangeable birth condition.

nascarguy
04-12-2010, 10:03 PM
guys we better watchout mlse could fire mo and hire garcia as GM and then we will be really fucked ......lol

Dirk Diggler
04-12-2010, 10:04 PM
guys we better watchout mlse could fire mo and hire garcia as GM and then we will be really fucked ......lol

We wouldn't be fucked. That would instantly solve two of our biggest problems.

Super
04-12-2010, 10:09 PM
Very PC of you. I would have used another unchangeable birth condition.

Faster? Smarter? Mentally challenged? Works for me :D

nascarguy
04-12-2010, 10:14 PM
We wouldn't be fucked. That would instantly solve two of our biggest problems.
yeah he could hire mo to be co gm

tfcleeds
04-12-2010, 10:18 PM
Shipping Mo back to Scotland where he can be chairman of Cowdenbeath is the best option.

James17930
04-12-2010, 11:19 PM
Fuck don't boo him. He should be jeered when they announce his name and booed every time he touches the ball. they have to fucking learn to keep him off the fucking pitch.

Although I really, really don't think Preki would be stupid enough to play him on Thursday. If he does, I would seriously consider stopping following the team until Garcia is released, because it would prove there's something fishy going on (as in, there's absolutely no way any other coach anywhere would play him, so if Preki does, something's up).

Razor
04-13-2010, 07:32 AM
Everyone knows Garica is shit - hell even the doube bag himself knows it.

That is good enough for me.

Pookie
04-13-2010, 07:54 AM
Funny the way it goes.

If we didn't have Garcia (or Cunningham or Marshall or Samuel or Vitti or Wynne... all players that have been booed) we'd really be something.

I wonder who the next scape goat will be once Garcia moves on?

Now if you want real targets:

- Fire Mo but have a replacement in mind

- In addition to the replacement, does our management structure work? Do you need a GM or would a Manager and Chairman scenario work best? Why does our top guy report into someone and not the Board? Burke and Colangelo do not have that level of micromanagement

- our lack of a scouting department and reliance on a single agency to provide talent

- is JDG ever interested in earning his salary and being a part of this team? Is a DP effective? Is THIS DP effective?

- If we can have up to 3 DPs and they are effective, get 2 more.

And my favourite way to drive protest:

- Refunds. Wigan did it after an extremely poor showing. Cagliari did it a few weeks ago. Reimburse the fans for their expenses if you play like crap and take it out of the GM's salary/bonus structure.

Shaughno
04-13-2010, 08:33 AM
Funny the way it goes.

If we didn't have Garcia (or Cunningham or Marshall or Samuel or Vitti or Wynne... all players that have been booed) we'd really be something.

I wonder who the next scape goat will be once Garcia moves on?

Now if you want real targets:

- Fire Mo but have a replacement in mind

- In addition to the replacement, does our management structure work? Do you need a GM or would a Manager and Chairman scenario work best? Why does our top guy report into someone and not the Board? Burke and Colangelo do not have that level of micromanagement

- our lack of a scouting department and reliance on a single agency to provide talent

- is JDG ever interested in earning his salary and being a part of this team? Is a DP effective? Is THIS DP effective?

- If we can have up to 3 DPs and they are effective, get 2 more.

And my favourite way to drive protest:

- Refunds. Wigan did it after an extremely poor showing. Cagliari did it a few weeks ago. Reimburse the fans for their expenses if you play like crap and take it out of the GM's salary/bonus structure.


Great post.

Beach_Red
04-13-2010, 09:06 AM
Funny the way it goes.

If we didn't have Garcia (or Cunningham or Marshall or Samuel or Vitti or Wynne... all players that have been booed) we'd really be something.

I wonder who the next scape goat will be once Garcia moves on?

Now if you want real targets:

- Fire Mo but have a replacement in mind

- In addition to the replacement, does our management structure work? Do you need a GM or would a Manager and Chairman scenario work best? Why does our top guy report into someone and not the Board? Burke and Colangelo do not have that level of micromanagement

- our lack of a scouting department and reliance on a single agency to provide talent

- is JDG ever interested in earning his salary and being a part of this team? Is a DP effective? Is THIS DP effective?

- If we can have up to 3 DPs and they are effective, get 2 more.

And my favourite way to drive protest:

- Refunds. Wigan did it after an extremely poor showing. Cagliari did it a few weeks ago. Reimburse the fans for their expenses if you play like crap and take it out of the GM's salary/bonus structure.


Don't worry, a proper infrastructure will be in place when the next GM takes over - proper front office, scouting department, reporting to the board and signing of additional DPs (there is no chance they'll approve more DP signings now). It'll be five years then and MLSE's "five year plan," of investing is on track. It's now clear this was the plan from the beginning and they aren't wavering from it.

jloome
04-13-2010, 11:15 AM
Got a col on Red Nation today about this: http://www.rednationonline.ca/Patience_Already_Starting_to_Slip_apr_13_10_column .shtml

Tough to sum up but basically, treat the team as a team, recognize the difference between heart and competence, and blame management for the latter.

Beach_Red
04-13-2010, 11:48 AM
Got a col on Red Nation today about this: http://www.rednationonline.ca/Patience_Already_Starting_to_Slip_apr_13_10_column .shtml

Tough to sum up but basically, treat the team as a team, recognize the difference between heart and competence, and blame management for the latter.


The problem we have with the way things are structured here is we're not sure where the line is between the "team" and "management." Where exactly should our support stop? What blame would be the most effective?

What we have now is lame duck management. Given the history of this organization it's unlikely any new expenses will be approved this year. They don't often change things mid-season and there's no way the GM we have now can get approval for anything that will cost money (another DP is the most obvious). Too many easy excuses for his bosses to say no, mostly the fact that he doesn't have the support of the fans.

Alonso
04-13-2010, 12:05 PM
Screw that. If people want to chant against him they should. So often people seem to think theres a 'way' of doing things. There isnt, do whatever you want, and make garcia feel like a scumbag if you want. It wont matter either way and it might make you feel a little better. Stop setting idle parameters on your behaviour and do what comes natural. And dont for a second worry about hurting a pro athletes feelings.


Having a bit of class and chivalry is the basis of any good society. There is alot to be said about having honor, valor in the face of adversity, and loyalty to that which you claim to hold dear.

Setting idle parameters on society's behaviour and not doing what comes natural is the base of all society's. AKA Moral's and Law's....

But besides all this gobbledeegoop, I'm with Shaugno and what appears to be many others with RPB, I will never degrade/chant down/ or boo a single player wearing the TFC jersey.

When it comes to the team as a whole, I don't see anything wrong with booing them at the end of the half if I think they've collectively played like poop. But singling out one or two of them during the game is not something I'm participating in.

McBrace
04-13-2010, 12:11 PM
So can we just boo the booers? Or will that be confusing?

McBrace
04-13-2010, 12:11 PM
Can I Boo Forza, and Shaughno, for not booing?

nascarguy
04-13-2010, 12:15 PM
Can I Boo Forza, and Shaughno, for not booing?
yeah you can....lol and if you want to kick small baby's you can do that to..:drinking::flare:

Parkdale
04-13-2010, 12:16 PM
yeah you can....lol and if you want to kick small baby's you can do that to..:drinking::flare:


nascar has spoken. the word is now law!

McBrace
04-13-2010, 12:19 PM
I will hold off on kicking babies, thats just too much.. But If I run in to Shaughno or Forza I promise to boo them, even maybe a who are ya!

You have been warned...

Boondaddy
04-13-2010, 12:19 PM
Having a bit of class and chivalry is the basis of any good society. There is alot to be said about having honor, valor in the face of adversity, and loyalty to that which you claim to hold dear.

Setting idle parameters on society's behaviour and not doing what comes natural is the base of all society's. AKA Moral's and Law's....

But besides all this gobbledeegoop, I'm with Shaugno and what appears to be many others with RPB, I will never degrade/chant down/ or boo a single player wearing the TFC jersey.

When it comes to the team as a whole, I don't see anything wrong with booing them at the end of the half if I think they've collectively played like poop. But singling out one or two of them during the game is not something I'm participating in.

Bang on. Booing our own is gay and simply shows no class. Isn't this one obvious???

nascarguy
04-13-2010, 12:20 PM
and if anyone wants to kick parkdale that's ok too........ Note KD no you can piss on him...lol

McBrace
04-13-2010, 12:21 PM
Boon,

I agree.

But I do we consider Shaughno a player cause he plays and will be wearing a TFC Jersey Thursday...

McBrace
04-13-2010, 12:21 PM
Soo Kick Parkdale and Boo Shaughno?

Got it...

Boondaddy
04-13-2010, 12:23 PM
Boon,

I agree.

But I do we consider Shaughno a player cause he plays and will be wearing a TFC Jersey Thursday...

Shaughno is a PLAYA and that's different so boo away! LOL

nascarguy
04-13-2010, 12:24 PM
Soo Kick Parkdale and Boo Shaughno?

Got it...
you can kick shaughno too if you want:flare:

nascarguy
04-13-2010, 12:30 PM
here is the plan kick anyone that is a manu or man city supporter, parkdale!!!

Belfast_Boy
04-13-2010, 12:33 PM
Funny the way it goes.



- Refunds. Wigan did it after an extremely poor showing. Cagliari did it a few weeks ago. Reimburse the fans for their expenses if you play like crap and take it out of the GM's salary/bonus structure.


they'd owe us a lot of $$$ after that NE game!

nascarguy
04-13-2010, 12:39 PM
they'd owe us a lot of $$$ after that NE game!
forget the NE what last year ny game if we play like that again the shit will hit mo. The ne is why I will not do any mls road trips this season

Belfast_Boy
04-13-2010, 12:48 PM
forget the NE what last year ny game if we play like that again the shit will hit mo. The ne is why I will not do any mls road trips this season

never thought of that. wasn't in NY but i'm sure it cost a lot more.

as for Mr. Garcia. I have a feeling he's starting thursday. would be surprised if he didn't.
he was there at the meet and greet today. thought he looked a bit sheepish at times.

t.o_moose
04-13-2010, 01:23 PM
I love how some people have completely lost the plot in this topic.


We're supposed to be a "supporters' group". Supporting the team and those who put on the jersey for our club. Yet some people would rather selfishly make the entire group look bad by booing, and starting (what essentially are) anti-TFC chants just to fufill their own personal agendas'.


Do you think that you booing a player is gonna stop Preki from playing him? Support the team first, leave your personal opinions at home/on the board.



See you all in 112.

Whoop
04-13-2010, 01:28 PM
I won't be booing Garcia or doing anti-TFC chants, but there is a difference between being a supporters group and being a cheerleading squad.

trane
04-13-2010, 03:35 PM
^ This is getting boreing whoop I have agreed with like everything you have said today.

mazinn
04-13-2010, 05:07 PM
if i may.....
yes Garcia sucks, but booing and anti Garcia chants are bad form and shouldn't be done.
I agree, he shouldnt be playing period

mazinn
04-13-2010, 05:22 PM
I'm sorry but shitting on someone for being bad at their job is not something that comes natural to me or a lot of other people. I understand not everyone is as forgiving but I'm not setting any parameters here. I'm sure you don't boo or start swearing at a co-worker of yours for being merely incompetent.

At my job, my boss fires who ever doesnt do the job right, he is not a mean person, but he looks after him self as well, he always says " I need Quality not Quantity"