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View Full Version : Potential grass issue - Our father who art in heaven...



ensco
04-11-2010, 08:26 PM
....please let the grass take.

Close to the lake, the water table is high. I am old enough to remember what the grass field at CNE Stadium at Argo games in the early 1970s looked like. It was mostly a quagmire. They switched to one of the earliest, most god awful forms of astroturf because of it.

BMO sits essentially at the same spot. And yes, I'm sure the people MLSE have working on this know that history, and know what they are doing.

But we need some luck too. They have never been able to grow grass at Wembley or the Amsterdam Arena.

Please, please, pretty please, let the grass take.

T.O TILL I DIE
04-11-2010, 08:31 PM
lmao????????????????????????? is this necessary

DOMIN8R
04-11-2010, 08:32 PM
http://www.nemahaweb.com/earlyumc/genericphotos/power-of-prayer.jpg

Amen Brother!




No it's not necessary.



It's fun!

Auzzy
04-11-2010, 08:35 PM
Not sure if you're been reading the various grass stories. The new pitch has an underground system to pump out water and/or pump in air from underneath. They also installed a subsurface heating system. These did not exist in the old CNE stadium. The location of the field relative to water table etc. will make no difference. Apparently they also had experts plan & deal with the grass installation.

Yes, I do hope & pray that the grass will take & everyone works out well. With the great weather we have had, I don't think we really have to worry though.

Lucky Strike
04-11-2010, 08:36 PM
...stay the hell out of our way! :D

nfitz
04-11-2010, 08:36 PM
Hopefully our experts are better than the ones who did Wembley!

ensco
04-11-2010, 08:50 PM
Not sure if you're been reading the various grass stories. The new pitch has an underground system to pump out water and/or pump in air from underneath. They also installed a subsurface heating system. These did not exist in the old CNE stadium. The location of the field relative to water table etc. will make no difference. Apparently they also had experts plan & deal with the grass installation.

Yes, I do hope & pray that the grass will take & everyone works out well. With the great weather we have had, I don't think we really have to worry though.

Sure. There's an excellent chance they've got it totally under control. But this is not simple stuff, and not 100% science.

Auzzy
04-11-2010, 09:48 PM
Sure. There's an excellent chance they've got it totally under control. But this is not simple stuff, and not 100% science.

Oh, I haven't really been following the Wembley situation (other than hearing how badly it got churned up by the NFL game). OK, in that case, fingers & toes & everything crossed. Don't want any broken ankles etc. due to chunks of sod coming up, as I've seen on many real grass surfaces. (Well, one or two specific ankles would be OK, but otherwise...)

rocker
04-11-2010, 09:55 PM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/PhJD/grass.jpg

Bombonera
04-11-2010, 09:58 PM
The sign above has got to be "the post of the day"! THANK YOU FOR THIS ROCKER!

celt-nick
04-11-2010, 10:02 PM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/PhJD/grass.jpg



HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

LesH
04-11-2010, 10:18 PM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/PhJD/grass.jpg

Bwahhhhhhahaha!
This one should be made a sticky thread's first post, thread titled "our best wishes for TFC".

mastermixer
04-11-2010, 10:21 PM
The only thing they may need to worry about on Thursday is the weather. They are calling for rain which may tear apart the soggy grass because it may have not have the time to be properly set yet.

Gazza
04-11-2010, 10:24 PM
God owes us one.

James17930
04-11-2010, 10:26 PM
??

the old Wembley pitch was considered one of the best in the world. It's only the new one which is fucked.

Whoop
04-11-2010, 10:27 PM
LOL... that sign is priceless.

FluSH
04-11-2010, 10:28 PM
http://www.tibetmap.net/SC/leshanbuddha2.jpg

Dunc
04-11-2010, 10:48 PM
Maybe we'd have a better chance though on a ruined muddy pitch.. bring on Passchendaele, what have we got to lose

twistedchinaman
04-11-2010, 11:43 PM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/PhJD/grass.jpg

Thank you.

Gazza
04-11-2010, 11:46 PM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/PhJD/grass.jpg
I'll be brightening up a lot of people's Monday morning by putting this in a mass email...absolutely perfect!

Canary Canuck
04-12-2010, 12:21 AM
But we need some luck too. They have never been able to grow grass at Wembley or the Amsterdam Arena.

Those stadiums have to overcome horrendous growing conditions that BMO doesn't. It's not just the odd NFL game or concert that causes the problems. Growing grass with that lack of light and ventilation creates huge challenges. The San Siro, Millennium Stadium and the Bernabeu have faced similar problems and are constantly re-laying their pitches.

In a small stadium with no roof like BMO the growing conditions are as good as you're going to get

boban
04-12-2010, 12:27 AM
Those stadiums have to overcome horrendous growing conditions that BMO doesn't. It's not just the odd NFL game or concert that causes the problems. Growing grass with that lack of light and ventilation creates huge challenges. The San Siro, Millennium Stadium and the Bernabeu have faced similar problems and are constantly re-laying their pitches.

In a small stadium with no roof like BMO the growing conditions are as good as you're going to get
Yeah bit those venue have better equipped personal than the NSS will ever have. And they have state of the art systems as well.

boban
04-12-2010, 12:28 AM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/PhJD/grass.jpg
And what if He lets him on the field?
Don't you still want Him to bless it?

Shakes McQueen
04-12-2010, 01:14 AM
Yeah bit those venue have better equipped personal than the NSS will ever have. And they have state of the art systems as well.

From what we've read and heard, the pitch at BMO is essentially "state of the art" as well.

At the end of the day, the drainage, aeration, and undersoil heating either works, or it doesn't. I can't imagine the location will matter too much, because the conditions the grass is growing in are 90% artificial - everything except the sunlight.

By comparison, the CNE field was just some grass laid down over dirt.

- Scott

Wagner
04-12-2010, 05:53 AM
Just walk by BMO today.
look at the pics taken to date.
that Turfgrass is established, and looks amazing.
I had my doubts.
But The sod company and the installation contractor really delivered.

Chevy
04-12-2010, 07:28 AM
I think the field is self contained - it's not like a park down by the lake that would be influenced by water table level, etc....

Petor
04-12-2010, 07:36 AM
I think the field is self contained - it's not like a park down by the lake that would be influenced by water table level, etc....

Agreed, as long as they installed it "green side up" we should be fine! :)

shaggingscot
04-12-2010, 07:48 AM
??

the old Wembley pitch was considered one of the best in the world. It's only the new one which is fucked.

True...I know an older Scottish gentlemen who still has a piece of it back in Dundee. :D

Steve
04-12-2010, 07:59 AM
I think the field is self contained - it's not like a park down by the lake that would be influenced by water table level, etc....

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Isn't it placed over a sealed base of concrete (albeit with drainage and such overtop)? If that were the case, the water table isn't really relevant to the discussion. Plus, as people have said, it has no roof, so gets a lot more sun than more contained stadia. The grass should be good there baring any kind of disaster.

flatpicker
04-12-2010, 08:26 AM
I think we need a "We Love Grass" chant.

rocker
04-12-2010, 09:19 AM
And what if He lets him on the field?
Don't you still want Him to bless it?

It's not His decision to let him on the field :) But He will be watching ;)

boban
04-12-2010, 09:21 AM
From what we've read and heard, the pitch at BMO is essentially "state of the art" as well.

At the end of the day, the drainage, aeration, and undersoil heating either works, or it doesn't. I can't imagine the location will matter too much, because the conditions the grass is growing in are 90% artificial - everything except the sunlight.

By comparison, the CNE field was just some grass laid down over dirt.

- Scott
And if you read my comment I mentioned the overseas venues mentioned had "state of the art" as well. Meaning the NSS technology is great. I was commenting more on the personal entrusted to maintain it, which in Europe I would bet they are much more experienced.

TFCREDNWHITE
04-12-2010, 11:06 AM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/PhJD/grass.jpg



Awesome!! LOL:D

boban
04-12-2010, 12:15 PM
It's not His decision to let him on the field :) But He will be watching ;)
Sorry, my grammar was off.
I meant what if Preki let's him on the field. Don't you want Him to still bless it?

thisisinternetclash
04-12-2010, 12:46 PM
The problems with the pitch at Wembley largely stem from the overuse of the stadium. The pitch is constantly being covered up or removed so that the venue can host concerts and various other non-sporting events. The FA have also been aggressively scheduling at Wembley football, rugby and even NFL matches more frequently than is ideal due to a pressing need to pay off the debts associated with the construction of the stadium. What's happened is that the pitch has effectively never had a chance to bed in peacefully and sufficiently since the stadium was opened. The pitch at the Emirates pretty clearly shows that it's more than possible to have a world-class playing surface in a prodigious, modern stadium in that part of the world.

Canary Canuck
04-12-2010, 04:50 PM
Yeah bit those venue have better equipped personal than the NSS will ever have.

Let's assume the BMO groundsman is the most incompetent moron on planet earth. His chances of maintaining a pristine pitch in a summer season with max sunlight, no roof, and max ventilation are still better than the best expert in the world trying to grow grass in a winter season with minimal sunlight and no ventilation.

Shakes McQueen
04-12-2010, 04:54 PM
Anyone have any updated pictures of the stadium, and the pitch?

- Scott

boban
04-12-2010, 05:03 PM
Let's assume the BMO groundsman is the most incompetent moron on planet earth. His chances of maintaining a pristine pitch in a summer season with max sunlight, no roof, and max ventilation are still better than the best expert in the world trying to grow grass in a winter season with minimal sunlight and no ventilation.
I'm not saying things won't work, just merely supporting esco's argument that things are hardly fait de complete - as some here seem to think. The thing still has to take and stand up to the pounding. Let's hope it does.

canadian_bhoy
04-12-2010, 05:06 PM
Anyone taking bets on how long it will be before our beautiful new turf is burned by a flare?

boban
04-12-2010, 05:07 PM
^^ Hopefully not even one game.

ensco
04-12-2010, 05:22 PM
Let's assume the BMO groundsman is the most incompetent moron on planet earth. His chances of maintaining a pristine pitch in a summer season with max sunlight, no roof, and max ventilation are still better than the best expert in the world trying to grow grass in a winter season with minimal sunlight and no ventilation.

There are lots of terrible fields in open stadiums.

Remember what Saputo looked like when the new grass debuted in that Canada-Honduras game?

rocker
04-12-2010, 05:51 PM
Saputo could have used a nice 3.5million system underneath.

It's interesting though that Saputo laid it down in I believe the fall (sept or oct). Then they it got covered in snow. Then the next spring they had awful rain but had to start playing immediately and it was pockmarked. NYRB laid their grass in the fall too and had problems when spring arrived. It seems that's not a good plan. It's almost like you should drop it down earlier or wait until spring.

I wonder if Saputo will fork out the millions for the system BMO has when he gets into MLS.

Canary Canuck
04-12-2010, 07:35 PM
There are lots of terrible fields in open stadiums.

Remember what Saputo looked like when the new grass debuted in that Canada-Honduras game?

Name me a terrible field in an open stadium that plays a summer season and has 5 million worth of technology underneath it. Don't be fooled. Saputo Stadium's pitch was done on the cheap. They just just laid sod on regular top soil like you'd do in your front yard. They didn't even have a sand soil base or anything. They had a wet summer and lost control of the soil moisture levels which left the roots shallow. The vacuum drainage system at BMO prevents this from happening.

nfitz
04-12-2010, 07:50 PM
Forecast is for showers on Thursday. State-of-the-art drainage or not, this sod has been laid down in the last weeks, so they are no guarantees. Maybe it's a good thing Robbo and Wynne are gone, seeing as they were the only TFC players to slide tackle with any regularity. Robbo might have been shredding up the pitch 5 minutes in. Hopefully she holds.Cloudy with 30% chance of showers. That means odds are it wil be dry. And if it does rain, not a substantial amount. A complete non-issue with the current forecast.

Since when does a chance of showers = rain? I don't think there's a day in England when there isn't a chance of showers ...

ensco
04-12-2010, 07:53 PM
^Do you two guys (nfitz and Canary) work for the team? Just wondering.

TOBOR !
04-12-2010, 08:20 PM
....please let the grass take.

Close to the lake, the water table is high. I am old enough to remember what the grass field at CNE Stadium at Argo games in the early 1970s looked like. It was mostly a quagmire. They switched to one of the earliest, most god awful forms of astroturf because of it.

BMO sits essentially at the same spot. And yes, I'm sure the people MLSE have working on this know that history, and know what they are doing.

But we need some luck too. They have never been able to grow grass at Wembley or the Amsterdam Arena.

Please, please, pretty please, let the grass take.

Water table ? The water table ain't gonna get within 100 yards of this pitch. This is just sod sitting atop a laboratory.

Shakes McQueen
04-12-2010, 08:28 PM
I'm really not concerned about the pitch at all.

Like TOBOR said - this isn't just grass, laid on the ground. This is grass, growing in a giant concrete, weather-controlled petri dish. This is miles superior to Saputo's setup, and miles superior to the old CNE stadium.

If the pitch manages to go to hell, it will be an epic fuck-up. I trust that MLSE wouldn't spend all of the money to do this, and then put some dipshit in charge of upkeep.

- Scott

nfitz
04-12-2010, 09:38 PM
Hey, if it's 19 degrees in April, and it showers a bit. I'll still be happy!

onemanbarmyarmy
04-12-2010, 09:50 PM
http://www.nemahaweb.com/earlyumc/genericphotos/power-of-prayer.jpg

Amen Brother!




No it's not necessary.



It's fun!

Oh, it's just fun. (tries to sew sacrificed chickens back together)

onemanbarmyarmy
04-12-2010, 09:53 PM
I'm really not concerned about the pitch at all.

Like TOBOR said - this isn't just grass, laid on the ground. This is grass, growing in a giant concrete, weather-controlled petri dish. This is miles superior to Saputo's setup, and miles superior to the old CNE stadium.

If the pitch manages to go to hell, it will be an epic fuck-up. I trust that MLSE wouldn't spend all of the money to do this, and then put some dipshit in charge of upkeep.

- Scott

Yeah thank god these guys aren't prone to those things.

Shakes McQueen
04-13-2010, 01:03 AM
Yeah thank god these guys aren't prone to those things.

Clever joke, but it discards the context of those two sentences. If you believe MLSE are just a single-minded profit machine, then it logically follows that they would want to protect their investment, and not spend several million dollars on a grass pitch, then put Carl Spackler in charge of maintenance.

http://www.treehugger.com/caddyshack.jpg

- Scott

TFCRegina
04-13-2010, 01:38 AM
Yeah thank god these guys aren't prone to those things.

Shakes said it well.

MLSE is run by a pension fund. They maximize profit. One way of doing that is by minimizing cost. They're not going to install a grass pitch over and over and over. They're gonna do it right the first time.

Putting in a grass pitch is a lot different than building a winning football club.

boban
04-13-2010, 09:47 AM
Shakes said it well.

MLSE is run by a pension fund. They maximize profit. One way of doing that is by minimizing cost. They're not going to install a grass pitch over and over and over. They're gonna do it right the first time.

Putting in a grass pitch is a lot different than building a winning football club.
And what you an him fail to realize is that whoever they put in, no matter how experienced, is less experienced at maintaining a pitch than the people maintaining Wembley, or what ever big football ground in Europe where they have problems with the pitch.

And your "They're gonna do it right the first time" line makes me chuckle.
Why did they hire Babcock or JFJ then if they do things right the first time? ;)

Beach_Red
04-13-2010, 09:52 AM
And what you an him fail to realize is that whoever they put in, no matter how experienced, is less experienced at maintaining a pitch than the people maintaining Wembley, or what ever big football ground in Europe where they have problems with the pitch.

And your "They're gonna do it right the first time" line makes me chuckle.
Why did they hire Babcock or JFJ then if they do things right the first time? ;)

Remember when they said ACC wasn't suitable for hockey, then they bought the Raptors and suddenly it was fine?

menefreghista
04-13-2010, 09:58 AM
Remember when they said ACC wasn't suitable for hockey, then they bought the Raptors and suddenly it was fine?

The funny thing is that the ACC is known for having shit ice.

boban
04-13-2010, 09:59 AM
Remember when they said ACC wasn't suitable for hockey, then they bought the Raptors and suddenly it was fine?
Yup, I remember that clearly.
Now people on here seem to think it is primarily a hockey arena all of a sudden because of that. :facepalm:

Shakes McQueen
04-13-2010, 12:41 PM
And what you an him fail to realize is that whoever they put in, no matter how experienced, is less experienced at maintaining a pitch than the people maintaining Wembley, or what ever big football ground in Europe where they have problems with the pitch.

And your "They're gonna do it right the first time" line makes me chuckle.
Why did they hire Babcock or JFJ then if they do things right the first time? ;)

And what you fail to realize, is that the problem with the surface at Wembley has nothing to do with the maintenance of the grass. It has to do with misuse, and overuse, as someone here has already previously explained.

- Scott

grizzle
04-13-2010, 12:50 PM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/PhJD/grass.jpg

Post of the day / month / year

onemanbarmyarmy
04-13-2010, 04:19 PM
Shakes said it well.

MLSE is run by a pension fund. They maximize profit. One way of doing that is by minimizing cost. They're not going to install a grass pitch over and over and over. They're gonna do it right the first time.

Putting in a grass pitch is a lot different than building a winning football club.

You think growing grass is easier than winning football championships. pfft as if!

Krasno.pL.
04-13-2010, 04:20 PM
Have we even heard of any Groundskeeper being hired? or anything about the upkeep?

boban
04-13-2010, 04:44 PM
And what you fail to realize, is that the problem with the surface at Wembley has nothing to do with the maintenance of the grass. It has to do with misuse, and overuse, as someone here has already previously explained.
1 NFL game a year does not overuse make.
There are other grounds that have problems also, in NA also.
Maintaining a grass pitch is not a science, it's an art.