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View Full Version : I am willing to take another poor season-BUT



trane
04-11-2010, 10:17 AM
only if they start from scratch, get rid of the FO, all of it, and start from scratch. That is what we need, the organization as it is at present is bound to fail. Lets build it again, lets build it properly. As I said before enough talk we need to see change. The present FO will not deliver change.

nfitz
04-11-2010, 10:23 AM
How can this be blamed on the FO?

Preki has clearly been given power to remove the players that he doesn't want, no matter who hired them. There's no indication that he hasn't been given all the $ he needs.

Not that I'm blaming Preki either ... surely it's too early in the season to start worrying too much.

trane
04-11-2010, 10:26 AM
^ This is season four, and like every other season, our club has hit the pitch unprepared. This has been a habitual problem with this club.

nfitz
04-11-2010, 10:32 AM
And if they don't manage to make a proper season of it, then it's quite clear that there will be changes.

But surely changing the captain of the boat 2 games into the season is too late to save this year. Let's see where we are at mid-season before we start trying to scuttle our own ship.

FOGES
04-11-2010, 10:32 AM
^^^dont you mean "the fOURth season"

S_D
04-11-2010, 10:36 AM
The problem is who do you put into the FO? Replace Mo with Preki? For sure Preki did a much better job with managing the team and cap with Chivas than Mo has done here, but given how far he was able to take Chivas is he qualified enough?

One thing we have learned from MLSE, is that they don't make changes when they need to be made. It is unfortuate that they don't have the expertise at the COO and CEO level to make wise decisions on the personel front. They are great at making money, but they have made some dreadful decisions in the past (JFJ Babcock).

It was only until they realized that they had an absolute mess on their hands did they finally move, and even then, they needed the NBA (referring Colangelo) to step in and help, and Peddie needed to set up a search committee (Gord Kirk) to help out with the Leafs.

Who is qualified to find the man for TFC?

trane
04-11-2010, 10:37 AM
^ NO I mean this is seasons four, or four shit seasons. I meant what I wrote. HAd I meant this is the fourth season of TFC football shit, I would have written that FOGES.

trane
04-11-2010, 10:38 AM
The problem is who do you put into the FO? Replace Mo with Preki? For sure Preki did a much better job with managing the team and cap with Chivas than Mo has done here, but given how far he was able to take Chivas is he qualified enough?

One thing we have learned from MLSE, is that they don't make changes when they need to be made. It is unfortuate that they don't have the expertise at the COO and CEO level to make wise decisions on the personel front. They are great at making money, but they have made some dreadful decisions in the past (JFJ Babcock).

It was only until they realized that they had an absolute mess on their hands did they finally move, and even then, they needed the NBA (referring Colangelo) to step in and help, and Peddie needed to set up a search committee (Gord Kirk) to help out with the Leafs.

Who is qualified to find the man for TFC?

I agree that is a big part of the problem.

Beach_Red
04-11-2010, 10:41 AM
How can this be blamed on the FO?

Preki has clearly been given power to remove the players that he doesn't want, no matter who hired them. There's no indication that he hasn't been given all the $ he needs.

Not that I'm blaming Preki either ... surely it's too early in the season to start worrying too much.

Sure, he was given the power to remove players. And now that the CBA has been settled he's been given the power to hire some, but did he have the power to sign any before that?

He has the salary cap to work with, but there are other ways to spend money to find players and we have no idea if the team has been given any for that.

trane
04-11-2010, 10:43 AM
The whole thing has just felt like a charade, as batman said, for a while now, I am tiered of it. We need some fresh minds. I am tiered of the same old, same old, had we played decent footy for three years, and slowly improved, even if we did not make the playoffs I would have been happy, but this just looks like the same movie, over and over.

nfitz
04-11-2010, 10:45 AM
He has the salary cap to work with, but there are other ways to spend money to find players and we have no idea if the team has been given any for that.The biggest expense in that is salary. It's clear there is no lack of salary in that area - whether it's being expended wisely or not. I can't see any indication that MLSE has been cheap here ... if anything the various expenditures we've seen evidence of suggest the obvious; most owners would have looked for the City to have paid a portion of significant upgrades on a stadium that the City owns (and profits from).

Beach_Red
04-11-2010, 10:45 AM
The problem is who do you put into the FO? Replace Mo with Preki? For sure Preki did a much better job with managing the team and cap with Chivas than Mo has done here, but given how far he was able to take Chivas is he qualified enough?

One thing we have learned from MLSE, is that they don't make changes when they need to be made. It is unfortuate that they don't have the expertise at the COO and CEO level to make wise decisions on the personel front. They are great at making money, but they have made some dreadful decisions in the past (JFJ Babcock).

It was only until they realized that they had an absolute mess on their hands did they finally move, and even then, they needed the NBA (referring Colangelo) to step in and help, and Peddie needed to set up a search committee (Gord Kirk) to help out with the Leafs.

Who is qualified to find the man for TFC?


How incredible is that? The owners of the most profitable hockey team in the world needed to hire a search committee to find a GM and then picked the most recent Cup winner out of a contract.

Wow. Just wow. When you put it like that it's really.... just wow.

I wonder how much Gord Kirk charged them for that.

S_D
04-11-2010, 10:47 AM
How can this be blamed on the FO?

Preki has clearly been given power to remove the players that he doesn't want, no matter who hired them. There's no indication that he hasn't been given all the $ he needs.

Not that I'm blaming Preki either ... surely it's too early in the season to start worrying too much.

Sure there is. Mo blew this season's cap with bad contracts from last season and now the team's hands are somewhat tied. We won't know what Preki will be able to do until next season when we get all those contracts/partial payment of contracts off of the books.

trane
04-11-2010, 10:48 AM
^ Gord Kirk bills at at least 750 per hour, at least, you can only imagine, what the bill would have been at, a 100 hours?

S_D
04-11-2010, 10:49 AM
How incredible is that? The owners of the most profitable hockey team in the world needed to hire a search committee to find a GM and then picked the most recent Cup winner out of a contract.

Wow. Just wow. When you put it like that it's really.... just wow.

I wonder how much Gord Kirk charged them for that.

He wasn't even out of contract LOL. He still had a year to go and negotiated an out when he refused to negotiate a contract extension.

It was the hockey world's worst kept secret. Everyone knew he was going to go to Toronto, it was just never said so they could avoid tampering charges.

Beach_Red
04-11-2010, 10:52 AM
Sure there is. Mo blew this season's cap with bad contracts from last season and now the team's hands are somewhat tied. We won't know what Preki will be able to do until next season when we get all those contracts/partial payment of contracts off of the books.


With the same agent handling the management and the players it's to be expected the contracts will be big - they get a percentage afer all.

But there are more ways to spend money to find players and to build a team that we don't know if TFC have been spending or not.

S_D
04-11-2010, 11:01 AM
But there are more ways to spend money to find players and to build a team that we don't know if TFC have been spending or not.

Yeah First Wave scouting and sending Mo to Brazil and the Caribbean to look at ass on the beach :D

nfitz
04-11-2010, 11:07 AM
Sure there is. Mo blew this season's cap with bad contracts from last season and now the team's hands are somewhat tied. We won't know what Preki will be able to do until next season when we get all those contracts/partial payment of contracts off of the books.We've heard these theory from a few supporters; but nothing official to confirm this. As far as I can tell, the only salary still on the books that is of concern is Garcia. And that would appear to be because Preki seems to put more import to hard work than actual results; I'll bet that he'll soon be swayed though.

profit89
04-11-2010, 11:20 AM
Preki has to move with the times. Relying on hard working guys, gimme a break.

That's not good enough. He's into hard working American players like Gargan, Labrocca, Garcia or whatever. Come on Preki, they stink. The league has passed these guys.

S_D
04-11-2010, 11:20 AM
We've heard these theory from a few supporters; but nothing official to confirm this. As far as I can tell, the only salary still on the books that is of concern is Garcia. And that would appear to be because Preki seems to put more import to hard work than actual results; I'll bet that he'll soon be swayed though.

We are paying for Robbo to play in NY, Barrett @ 200, Gerba's buyout, some of Brennans contract counts against the cap, and of course Garcia.

Add to that we have Dero making league max and JDG as DP.

When you add all that together, we are in the same situation as LAG (if not worse) were with 3 DP's, except that LAG actually had all 3 DP's playing for them LOL.

nfitz
04-11-2010, 11:24 AM
We are paying for Robbo to play in NY, Barrett @ 200, Gerba's buyout, some of Brennans contract counts against the cap, and of course Garcia.And these count against the cap? I've seen speculation by a lot of "supporters" but I've seen no evidence of this. If there is evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it. I'm sure there has been some money tossed away - but if it's not against the cap, then I really don't think it's an issue.

S_D
04-11-2010, 11:56 AM
And these count against the cap? I've seen speculation by a lot of "supporters" but I've seen no evidence of this. If there is evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it. I'm sure there has been some money tossed away - but if it's not against the cap, then I really don't think it's an issue.

For sure.

MLS pays the salaries in the case of Barrett and Garcia. Counts against TFC cap.

Part of the trade in sending Robbo to NY was us paying for part of his salary (comes from our cap)

In the case of Gerba and Bennan, players contract run from Jan-Dec, so 3 months salary was paid to these guys.

Gerba gets bought out, nothing mentioned on how much but the contract is with MLS, Not MLSE and has to be accounted for. It is of course possible that he was bought out for $1.00 and MLSE paid him on the side LOL. But I am sure there is a rule somewhere that doesn't let you do that.

In Brennan's case he retired and move upstairs, so it is just the first 3 months that would count, as he is being paid by MLSE now. I saw it in one of the articles that him retiring freed up 70K to the cap.

boban
04-11-2010, 02:36 PM
only if they start from scratch, get rid of the FO, all of it, and start from scratch. That is what we need, the organization as it is at present is bound to fail. Lets build it again, lets build it properly. As I said before enough talk we need to see change. The present FO will not deliver change.
There is no other FO other than MLSE.
Changing Mo accomplishes very little.
The FO is MLSE, hence the word Front .. MLSE is driving the bus.

Bombonera
04-11-2010, 03:21 PM
I would not describe what MLSE is doing as "driving" anything other than profit, and that might hit a wall as well soon... Anyone buying those white jersey's at $100+, or is considering it, please give your head a shake.

We have given them our $'s. We should not have to wait until season 5. Moreover, of the 3+ seasons, truly only the first was fun. THat was a while ago, but I thik I remeber MO doing a much better job coaching than whatever it is he has been doing since.

nfitz
04-11-2010, 03:46 PM
For sure.

MLS pays the salaries in the case of Barrett and Garcia. Counts against TFC cap.

Part of the trade in sending Robbo to NY was us paying for part of his salary (comes from our cap)

In the case of Gerba and Bennan, players contract run from Jan-Dec, so 3 months salary was paid to these guys.

Gerba gets bought out, nothing mentioned on how much but the contract is with MLS, Not MLSE and has to be accounted for. It is of course possible that he was bought out for $1.00 and MLSE paid him on the side LOL. But I am sure there is a rule somewhere that doesn't let you do that.

In Brennan's case he retired and move upstairs, so it is just the first 3 months that would count, as he is being paid by MLSE now. I saw it in one of the articles that him retiring freed up 70K to the cap.You say for sure that they are all impacting the cap. But I see nothing in what you wrote, that says either Brennan or Gerba are still impacting our cap.

It's idle speculation. Let's get some facts if this is such an issue.

Juanito
04-11-2010, 06:38 PM
Trane, I feel your pain. It's bad enough that we have an average team at best, but when they fall apart and get humiliated... it makes me want to cry. When the fourth goal went in, I change the channel ... I ended up watching the last 30 minutes of the Return of the Jedi ... at least I was entertained for a bit.

I'm so glad I don't travel because if I had to shell out time and money to watch THAT, I'd kill someone!!

S_D
04-11-2010, 07:08 PM
You say for sure that they are all impacting the cap. But I see nothing in what you wrote, that says either Brennan or Gerba are still impacting our cap.

It's idle speculation. Let's get some facts if this is such an issue.

There is nothing about idle speculation. It is facts. Jan, Feb, Mar they were paid by MLS, so 1/4 of their contracts were paid out. It has to be counted against the cap. MLS send out the cheques, not MLSE.

In Brennan's case he has retired now, he doesn't continue to collect payments from MLS, so whatever they have paid him to the retirement date counts. The balance of his contract doesn't (reported as 70k-ish freed up).

And as for Gerba, Mo explained how the cap works the other day. The salary cap isn't just a salary cap, it is a player expense cap. Buying out players is an expense. The only thing that is speculation is how much did Gerba accept as a buyout, and if TFC could backdoor the payment to reduce the impact of it.

nfitz
04-11-2010, 07:33 PM
That's all past history though. Who cares what was paid in March; they didn't even have to achieve the cap amount until mid-March.

What's the situation now?

Mikey
04-12-2010, 08:01 AM
Your thread title says it all, "willing to take another poor(shit) season", that's all the FO needs to hear, nothings going to change.

Have we receieved our Season renewal notice for next year yet....there's 2 bajillion new suckers waiting inline if you dont pay up y'know.....:rolleyes:


(the emperor has no clothes)

trane
04-12-2010, 03:27 PM
^ The point is that we need to change course now. No more short term fixes for a couple of results. I want this team to be a long tern winner.