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bgnewf
04-04-2010, 04:13 PM
http://tfcpics.com/blog.html


Why I find myself not watching as much MLS as perhaps I should

habstfc
04-04-2010, 05:10 PM
I would agree with your statement that most tfc fans aren't really fans of mls but that isn't exclusive to tfc or mls for that matter. fans in general of any sport in any league have the same attitudes toward their local team over the league they play in. do you think most leafs fans are watching a game on tsn or rsn if the leafs aren't playing? Or what about the average yankee fan, would they be watching a game between k.c. and seattle if it was on t.v.? fans of any league be it the nhl, nba, cfl, nfl mlb, epl whatever are always going to be more interested in the home team than the league itself.

Super
04-04-2010, 05:12 PM
I've tried to watch some of the other games this season, and though the quality of play is beyond terrible (especially compared to the Prem - but that's only understandable) it's still nice to get to know the other teams a little bit before we have to face them.

Waggy
04-04-2010, 05:12 PM
I started off that way, but to be honest the league is growing on me. I have a feeling as us TFC fans become more and more familiar with the league and its players (we're still learning), and as the league grows and improves, more and more of us will become actual fans of the league.

RYANTFC
04-04-2010, 05:13 PM
I would agree with your statement that most tfc fans aren't really fans of mls but that isn't exclusive to tfc or mls for that matter. fans in general of any sport in any league have the same attitudes toward their local team over the league they play in. do you think most leafs fans are watching a game on tsn or rsn if the leafs aren't playing? Or what about the average yankee fan, would they be watching a game between k.c. and seattle if it was on t.v.? fans of any league be it the nhl, nba, cfl, nfl mlb, epl whatever are always going to be more interested in the home team than the league itself.

Well I love football, If an english premier league match is on I would be watching, obviously I look forward to Liverpool though. If theres a spanish match on I would watch that also, I guess it all depends on the person, some just aren't interested.

Parkdale
04-04-2010, 05:26 PM
"Love the one you're with"

and even if the MLS isn't really 'lovable', it's not going to be changing anytime soon.

I'm certainly more interested in the rest of the league now than in years previous,
if only because I know all the other clubs much better than before.

Roogsy
04-04-2010, 05:30 PM
I know this:

The quality of play is so much better in MLS games OTHER than TFC.

On top of having one of the worst teams in MLS for the past 3 seasons, we have been playing ugly football the whole time.

At least LA is fun to watch.

jabbronies
04-04-2010, 05:35 PM
I can only watch so much shitty soccer in a week. 1-2 TFC games are enough for me.
This is the same reason I don't watch Women's hockey outside of the Olympics.

Voodooman
04-04-2010, 05:37 PM
I can only watch so much shitty soccer in a week. 1-2 TFC games are enough for me.
This is the same reason I don't watch Women's hockey outside of the Olympics.

Was laughing for a good few minutes after i read this. It is too true.

ensco
04-04-2010, 05:39 PM
I know this:

The quality of play is so much better in MLS games OTHER than TFC.

On top of having one of the worst teams in MLS for the past 3 seasons, we have been playing ugly football the whole time.


I think this is too harsh. Not saying we don't play a lot of ugly football. There are a lot of bad games in MLS.

As a whole, I'd guess that last season about 50-60% of MLS games were total snores, while about 3/4 of ours were bad.

We actually had about 8 entertaining games last year - the games away at KC, DC, Columbus, Montreal, and SJ, the home wins against NE, DC and Colorado come to mind, there may be others...

mastermixer
04-04-2010, 05:41 PM
I know this:

The quality of play is so much better in MLS games OTHER than TFC.

On top of having one of the worst teams in MLS for the past 3 seasons, we have been playing ugly football the whole time.

At least LA is fun to watch.

100% agree.
I actually do try to watch as many MLS games as I can and the level of play is much more watchable than most TFC games. I'm guessing its due to the fact that we never have really had a creative striker or even a decent coach who can help create that type of play with this team.

ManUtd4ever
04-04-2010, 05:49 PM
I watched a couple of MLS Cup finals prior to the inception of TFC and that was it. The last 3 years I've watched a few regular season matches not involving TFC with more interest than in years past but there is still a lack of MLS exposure on television in Canada...

Super
04-04-2010, 05:55 PM
To me the main problem I have with this league is the parity and the fact that players are owned by the league. It's very plastic, and there is little to no identity, or individualism, to any of the teams. I fear that I won't be able to begin respecting this league until the Mickey Mouse ears are cut right off - and we join the world community of football leagues. This will probably take a while. Till that time I'll try and learn a bit about opponents, as horrible as it is to watch teams play in this league, and then focus my attention on supporting TFC - as it's the only football available to me locally.

There's a LONG way to go before the MLS is even close to the smallest of European leagues. When the salary cap goes we'll be able to take the next step. Until then we'll stay at the bottom.

Yeoman
04-04-2010, 05:59 PM
I started off that way, but to be honest the league is growing on me. I have a feeling as us TFC fans become more and more familiar with the league and its players (we're still learning), and as the league grows and improves, more and more of us will become actual fans of the league.

indeed
that is what it is for myself
still learning teams styles/players/etc

Dirk Diggler
04-04-2010, 06:00 PM
I know this:

The quality of play is so much better in MLS games OTHER than TFC.

On top of having one of the worst teams in MLS for the past 3 seasons, we have been playing ugly football the whole time.

At least LA is fun to watch.

Completely agreed. I started watching a bunch of non-TFC games last year and to be honest, I was more entertained watching those games than most games TFC has ever played. People who think that the quality of the league is absolute shit and unwatchable should watch some more MLS games.

Bluenose13
04-04-2010, 06:29 PM
The standard of the NYRB/Chicago game last Sat after the TFC game was excellent. The atmosphere was A1 & the teams responded with some very pleasing football to watch.

Super
04-04-2010, 06:31 PM
Completely agreed. I started watching a bunch of non-TFC games last year and to be honest, I was more entertained watching those games than most games TFC has ever played. People who think that the quality of the league is absolute shit and unwatchable should watch some more MLS games.

The problem for me though is that I'm fed the best football in the world on a weekly basis (Premier League + Champions League) so I know that my standards of what football should be like is outrageously high. I'm honestly trying to lower my expectations a lot as I watch MLS games this year - but I will say that although TFC may play some of the worst football in the league, I really don't think about that when the game is on ... only about winning, moving the ball up, and scoring goals. I tend to forget all about quality when it comes to TFC.

London
04-04-2010, 06:33 PM
I know this:

The quality of play is so much better in MLS games OTHER than TFC.

On top of having one of the worst teams in MLS for the past 3 seasons, we have been playing ugly football the whole time.

At least LA is fun to watch.


i agree, mls is better than TFC, you watch chicago vs houston, you are going to see a decent match.


i am glad we are getting out of market games now, you realy get to know your enemy when you watch them more than 2 times a year.


TFC are mudders LOL

Cashcleaner
04-04-2010, 06:35 PM
Should anyone really be surprised that a lot of MLS fans don't follow the rest of the league as much as they do the EPL, Seria A, or Bundesliga?

MLS really can't hold a candle to any of those three organization in terms of talent and skill. Personally, I don't really see a problem in just supporting Toronto and putting the rest of the league on the backburner. Hopefully over time the overall level of quality of MLS will improve, but until that day, there's not much else we can do.

marquis
04-04-2010, 06:39 PM
People who think that the quality of the league is absolute shit and unwatchable should watch some more MLS games.

+1
Judging MLS by watching TFC games, is like looking at the world through a dirty glass.

Carts
04-04-2010, 06:40 PM
Should anyone really be surprised that a lot of MLS fans don't follow the rest of the league as much as they do the EPL, Seria A, or Bundesliga?

MLS really can't hold a candle to any of those three organization in terms of talent and skill. Personally, I don't really see a problem in just supporting Toronto and putting the rest of the league on the backburner. Hopefully over time the overall level of quality of MLS will improve, but until that day, there's not much else we can do.

To be honest, in most North American Sports, most fans support & watch their team, but don't really "watch" the rest of the league...

You don't see a 49ers fan going out of their way to catch an out of market Raiders/Colts game... You don't see a Bruins fans going out of their way to watch a Predators/Flyers game...

Sure, they watch the "media made" hype games like 'Monday Night Football' but thats it...

People need to stop comparing the MLS to leagues in Europe and elsewhere and start comparing it to North American leagues - because that is the true comparison in regards to viewing etc...

Carts...

Cashcleaner
04-04-2010, 06:46 PM
To be honest, in most North American Sports, most fans support & watch their team, but don't really "watch" the rest of the league...

You don't see a 49ers fan going out of their way to catch an out of market Raiders/Colts game... You don't see a Bruins fans going out of their way to watch a Predators/Flyers game...

Sure, they watch the "media made" hype games like 'Monday Night Football' but thats it...

People need to stop comparing the MLS to leagues in Europe and elsewhere and start comparing it to North American leagues - because that is the true comparison in regards to viewing etc...

Carts...

Really? I dunno about that. I can think of three close friends off the top of my head that make an effort to follow their respective sports as a whole. And that includes watching other teams play and following the stats of individual players.

Fuck, even I'll catch NHL Western Conference match-ups towards the end of the season and that's nothing compared to the league-wide analysis my step-brother does all throughout the season.

I gotta say, that some of the best sports fans I've met are Yanks precisely because they are so knowledgeable in the sport as a whole and not just their teams.

ManUtd4ever
04-04-2010, 06:47 PM
There's a LONG way to go before the MLS is even close to the smallest of European leagues. When the salary cap goes we'll be able to take the next step. Until then we'll stay at the bottom.

It's interesting that many fans throughout Europe are advocating a salary cap to create parity in the top leagues in the world. Parity is not the issue, it is the quality of play, which as you mentioned is sub par at the moment but steadily improving. On another note, I believe MLS average attendance is in the top 10 worldwide which bodes well for the future...

London
04-04-2010, 06:54 PM
To be honest, in most North American Sports, most fans support & watch their team, but don't really "watch" the rest of the league...

You don't see a 49ers fan going out of their way to catch an out of market Raiders/Colts game... You don't see a Bruins fans going out of their way to watch a Predators/Flyers game...



Carts...

funny you chose both of my teams.


i have watched cleveland vs arizona , jets vs rams , thrashers vs lightning, etc


how can you call yourself a fan if you dont know who you are playing.

Bars92
04-04-2010, 07:03 PM
Well I love football, If an english premier league match is on I would be watching, obviously I look forward to Liverpool though. If theres a spanish match on I would watch that also, I guess it all depends on the person, some just aren't interested.

I've always wondered how MLS would compare with the Irish Carling Premiership? Just because those are really the only two leagues I've ever seen live.(Other than about a century of existence, that is..)

RYANTFC
04-04-2010, 07:29 PM
I've always wondered how MLS would compare with the Irish Carling Premiership? Just because those are really the only two leagues I've ever seen live.(Other than about a century of existence, that is..)

The quality wouldn't be much much better in the MLS but they do get bigger crowds in the MLS, but look at the size of the country compared to the size of ours lol.

Macksam
04-04-2010, 08:03 PM
To me the main problem I have with this league is the parity and the fact that players are owned by the league. It's very plastic, and there is little to no identity, or individualism, to any of the teams. I fear that I won't be able to begin respecting this league until the Mickey Mouse ears are cut right off - and we join the world community of football leagues. This will probably take a while. Till that time I'll try and learn a bit about opponents, as horrible as it is to watch teams play in this league, and then focus my attention on supporting TFC - as it's the only football available to me locally.

There's a LONG way to go before the MLS is even close to the smallest of European leagues. When the salary cap goes we'll be able to take the next step. Until then we'll stay at the bottom.
The salary cap isn't a problem. In North America, every team needs to competitive. Otherwise, fans of teams who have no chance of winning the championship aren't going to go to their games anymore.

I've tried to watch some of the other games this season, and though the quality of play is beyond terrible (especially compared to the Prem - but that's only understandable) it's still nice to get to know the other teams a little bit before we have to face them.
The Prem on average, besides when the big four are playing, is not that great to watch. Most of the teams do the same thing, which is have the defenders play a long pass up to the forwards who pass it back to the mid field. When you watch that for 90s minutes, it takes its toll on you. Serie A games have more skill and technical ability on average.

Beach_Red
04-04-2010, 08:17 PM
To be honest, in most North American Sports, most fans support & watch their team, but don't really "watch" the rest of the league...

You don't see a 49ers fan going out of their way to catch an out of market Raiders/Colts game... You don't see a Bruins fans going out of their way to watch a Predators/Flyers game...

Sure, they watch the "media made" hype games like 'Monday Night Football' but thats it...

People need to stop comparing the MLS to leagues in Europe and elsewhere and start comparing it to North American leagues - because that is the true comparison in regards to viewing etc...

Carts...


I don't know about the other sports, but the success of the NFL Network shows that there's plenty of out of market interest in football beyond just MNF and the Super Bowl.

And the huge success of college sports in the US shows plenty of out market interest.

What there isn't much interest in are 'second-tier' leagues and that's what MLS is up against. What are the TV ratings for AHL games or AAA baseball or D-League basketball?

There's a huge market in North America for the best in the world but not much of a market for second or third or 43rd best.

flatpicker
04-04-2010, 08:40 PM
I agree with those of you who think TFC is a bad example of good MLS action.

I have often been surprised how much more entertaining MLS is when Toronto isn't playing.

We are getting shafted!

jazzy
04-04-2010, 08:42 PM
I started off that way, but to be honest the league is growing on me. I have a feeling as us TFC fans become more and more familiar with the league and its players (we're still learning), and as the league grows and improves, more and more of us will become actual fans of the league.

Have to agree, witness Donovan's superb kick to Buttle and the follow thru header to goal vs Chivas......love goltv's hd and doubleheader idea of MLS games...

Super
04-04-2010, 08:54 PM
The salary cap isn't a problem. In North America, every team needs to competitive. Otherwise, fans of teams who have no chance of winning the championship aren't going to go to their games anymore.

The Prem on average, besides when the big four are playing, is not that great to watch. Most of the teams do the same thing, which is have the defenders play a long pass up to the forwards who pass it back to the mid field. When you watch that for 90s minutes, it takes its toll on you. Serie A games have more skill and technical ability on average.

I've been over this with a few people on this board many times before, and I guess it comes down to personal preference. Growing up in Europe, and moving here in my mid-20's, it's just really difficult for me to buy into a salary capped league-system. I understand that people who grow up here in Canada (or the US) are more accepting of a salary cap, and so be it - to each their own. However, it's not now, nor will it ever be a system that I can respect or enjoy. Sort of like the NHL - it's impossible for me to understand how Nashville or Phoenix can beat true hockey cities, like Montreal and Toronto. It just makes no sense to me at all. It's the same in the MLS. Toronto is by far the biggest soccer market in North America, and yet we're shit. We can't even invest our earnings back into the team. It's just very Franchise and Disney to me - you know, every McDonalds must be the same, regardless of location. Same applies to the MLS. Decisions are made by the head office - who tell us what we should be like. Maybe we should have cheerleaders after all?

With regards to your comparison of Serie A vs Premier League, that again is a personal preference. However, numbers will say that the Prem mops the floor with the Serie A. To me there is nothing more boring than Italian football - league or national team (sorry to offend its followers). I'd much sooner watch Fulham slug it out with Wigan than watch any Italian game - even it's for the title.

Pookie
04-04-2010, 09:12 PM
So, when the Leafs draw 1.5M viewers for the early game on CBC and then the late game draws 800k on the same night... do we conclude:

- Leaf fans are not NHL fans?
- Leaf fans can't stay up that late?

Main reason that I don't watch MLS is that is generally isn't available. That may change this year but even still, if there is a game shown it is usually only on GolTV or HDNet. Not exactly popular channels

I did catch the game between Chivas and LA but went to bed at the end of 45... I'm one of those Leaf fans that can't stay up late ;)

Macksam
04-04-2010, 09:12 PM
With regards to your comparison of Serie A vs Premier League, that again is a personal preference. However, numbers will say that the Prem mops the floor with the Serie A. To me there is nothing more boring than Italian football - league or national team (sorry to offend its followers). I'd much sooner watch Fulham slug it out with Wigan than watch any Italian game - even it's for the title.
Most people that think the Serie A is boring have no idea what they're talking about and just say it for the sake of saying it. Saying Italian soccer is boring is like saying the Brazilians don't know how to defend. It's an age old sterotype that isn't true at all today. I watched Lazio and Milan last week and it easily trumps Fulham and Wigan any day of the week. Atleast the average Serie A team can string more than three passes together before resorting to long ball attempts.

torontocelt
04-04-2010, 09:14 PM
I can only watch so much shitty soccer in a week. 1-2 TFC games are enough for me.
This is the same reason I don't watch Women's hockey outside of the Olympics.

Agreed. I simply do not have enough time in a week to watch other crap teams play football. I am a TFC fan but sometimes the quality of play is mind numbing, it would be even worse if I had no interest in both teams I was watching. It does get to me though that I am so unaware of my opponents, I wish I did know the teams and their players but I am not willing to put myself and my time through the necessary torture to learn. Between watching Celtic, TFC live and the odd La Liga, Premiership and Champions league match, I really have no time for another MLS match.

Super
04-04-2010, 09:26 PM
Most people that think the Serie A is boring have no idea what they're talking about and just say it for the sake of saying it. Saying Italian soccer is boring is like saying the Brazilians don't know how to defend. It's an age old sterotype that isn't true at all today. I watched Lazio and Milan last week and it easily trumps Fulham and Wigan any day of the week. Atleast the average Serie A team can string more than three passes together before resorting to long ball.

Fair enough. To each their own. I don't watch a lot of Italian football anymore - although I used to, many moons ago. I just got tired of the empty stadiums, slow paced football, endless stops in the game and players bouncing all over the place in agony when touched. However, I would suspect that you don't watch a lot of Prem either. Prem teams do not resort to long ball only - that's an age old stereotype as well, like you said about Italian football being boring. However, having said that, long ball is PART of a great game of football. Passing too of course. And they do all of that - and better than any other league in the world IMHO. And just for the record, Fulham, worse than your average Italian team according to you, thumped Juventus just the other week - and German champions, Wolfsburg, last week. Pretty good for a team that can't string passes together.

One thing we can agree on is the fact that the Prem is by far the most popular league in the world, period, end of story. Their stadiums are sold out, and people watch all over the world. Numbers don't lie.

Macksam
04-04-2010, 09:31 PM
Fair enough. To each their own. I don't watch a lot of Italian football anymore - although I used to, many moons ago. I just got tired of the empty stadiums, slow paced football, endless stops in the game and players bouncing all over the place in agony when touched. However, I would suspect that you don't watch a lot of Prem either. Prem teams do not resort to long ball only - that's an age old stereotype as well, like you said about Italian football being boring. However, having said that, long ball is PART of a great game of football. Passing too of course. And they do all of that - and better than any other league in the world IMHO. And just for the record, Fulham, worse than your average Italian team according to you, thumped Juventus just the other week - and German champions, Wolfsburg, last week. Pretty good for a team that can't string passes together.

One thing we can agree on is the fact that the Prem is by far the most popular league in the world, period, end of story. Their stadiums are sold out, and people watch all over the world. Numbers don't lie.
I do watch the prem here and there. When it's a big match up, I'll watch it from kick off to the final whistle. When it's the teams nobody cares about like Wigan or Sunderland, I'll view it for about five or ten minutes before switching it off after finishing my breakfast. I said the average premiership team resorts to long ball way too often. I don't consider the big four an average premiership team.

As for the Serie A, it isn't slow paced. It's just as fast as the prem, except with more skill. Again, I'm talking about the average team.

Beach_Red
04-04-2010, 09:32 PM
I've been over this with a few people on this board many times before, and I guess it comes down to personal preference. Growing up in Europe, and moving here in my mid-20's, it's just really difficult for me to buy into a salary capped league-system. I understand that people who grow up here in Canada (or the US) are more accepting of a salary cap, and so be it - to each their own. However, it's not now, nor will it ever be a system that I can respect or enjoy. Sort of like the NHL - it's impossible for me to understand how Nashville or Phoenix can beat true hockey cities, like Montreal and Toronto. It just makes no sense to me at all. It's the same in the MLS. Toronto is by far the biggest soccer market in North America, and yet we're shit. We can't even invest our earnings back into the team. It's just very Franchise and Disney to me - you know, every McDonalds must be the same, regardless of location. Same applies to the MLS. Decisions are made by the head office - who tell us what we should be like. Maybe we should have cheerleaders after all?




The fans don't want the salary cap, the investors want the cap. Joe Roth in Seattle said exactly that in the days before the CBA was signed, he would not have invested in a team unless the league had a salary cap.

So the fans put up with the salary cap in order to have a league.

I agree with you, the team should be able to reinvest the profits as much as it wants. And in every other way besides player salaries they can - they just don't. Well, some do and some don't.

If there was a way to ensure that only the profits from the team were spent on the team and not to have owners spend money from other sources, it would help a lot. But the owners can't trust one another to run their sports teams the way they do their other businesses.

james
04-04-2010, 09:32 PM
Most people that think the Serie A is boring have no idea what they're talking about and just say it for the sake of saying it. Saying Italian soccer is boring is like saying the Brazilians don't know how to defend. It's an age old sterotype that isn't true at all today. I watched Lazio and Milan last week and it easily trumps Fulham and Wigan any day of the week. Atleast the average Serie A team can string more than three passes together before resorting to long ball attempts.

i like to watch several different leagues from England to Germany, France, to Argentina but the one league i just cant watch is italy seria A. I just cant get into that league.

Macksam
04-04-2010, 09:36 PM
i like to watch several different leagues from England to Germany, France, to Argentina but the one league i just cant watch is italy seria A. I just cant get into that league.
Negative stigma does exist.

torontocelt
04-04-2010, 09:43 PM
i like to watch several different leagues from England to Germany, France, to Argentina but the one league i just cant watch is italy seria A. I just cant get into that league.

One of my favourite ever football shows in the uk was Football Italia, it was an hour long round up of the league with James Richardson. It was taken off the air years ago but it was class, nowadays a great round up show is La Liga 360 although the commentators can get on my nerves a bit. Football Italia showed you all the goals and featured all of the great players of Seria, it is a shame it is no longer around. I wish you could get match of the day here also.

mmmikey
04-04-2010, 10:04 PM
having goltv showing more mls games is making it easier to become more of a general follower of the league. if these were shown on a widely available sports network, i would wager there would be more general interest. hell, even fans who only follow tfc seem to be hesitant at signing up for goltv.

match center does allow access to a collection of games beyond whats available on tv, but i would much rather watch a game on my big screen then try to rig up my laptop (if it wasn't for stupid silverlight i could still use my ps3). such an offering also won't appeal to a more casual or less technically inclined part of the fan base.

if access to viewing the league as a whole continues to improve, i think you will find general interest in it increase along with it.

mmmikey
04-04-2010, 10:17 PM
Most people that think the Serie A is boring have no idea what they're talking about and just say it for the sake of saying it. Saying Italian soccer is boring is like saying the Brazilians don't know how to defend. It's an age old sterotype that isn't true at all today. I watched Lazio and Milan last week and it easily trumps Fulham and Wigan any day of the week. Atleast the average Serie A team can string more than three passes together before resorting to long ball attempts.

i agree that serie a games judged purely on their football can be very good. in the last couple of years the gap between the top and middle tier of italian teams has closed considerably and this has improved the entertainment. this gap has closed partly because of the financial struggles of many of the top teams.

BUT there are many problems that face serie a in my opinion:

-teams parking the bus against the top sides makes for what looks like "slow football" considering we usually get the top sides games, there is a lot of this in past years, although the top sides are getting a lot more teams taking the game to them.
-poor production of telecast games. audio is poor, video is dull and lifeless. the video is bad even for a non-hd feed.
-lack of quality commentary. often times you get a single person who does a monologue. regurgitates rumors, etc constantly with no one to question his comments. horrible! there is a reason u need COLOR commentary
-stadiums are poor.. infrastructure is bad and compound that with the average italian fan beginning to avoid the ultras at the stadiums and u can get some pretty lifeless games. im not sure if they just don't wire up the stadium to pick up the ambient noise as much, but its usually pretty boring. big games at the san siro stand out because of the contrast. edit: THIS is what i think is the best about watching the premiership on tv.. there is a pulse to every game, as the action goes on u can hear the beat quicken and ebb... its great for engaging the fans attention.

there is some truth to the style of play criticism as well, but i believe that will continue to decrease. teams have learned that trying to put 10 men behind the ball just allows a team like milan to slowly break them down, meanwhile many squads have had success or at least made a game of it by attempting to take the game to milan and attack them (and their aging backline).. what u get is a multi goal thriller of a game with much attacking. really can be fun!

p.s. comments about diving and rolling around are bullshit. the premiership is just as bad about this now a days. there is no difference.. its a blight on the entire game, not any league in particular.

Carts
04-04-2010, 10:24 PM
So, when the Leafs draw 1.5M viewers for the early game on CBC and then the late game draws 800k on the same night... do we conclude:

- Leaf fans are not NHL fans?
- Leaf fans can't stay up that late?



More to this point, in the Leafs broadcast over 1-million of those 1.5-million viewers are in Ontario... of the 800k for the late game, 200k (at most) are from Ontario...

I know people have disagreed with my previous post about the viewing habits of North American fans, but it being my business for over 13-years, the numbers say that the majority of NA sports fans watch their own "market"...

Hardcore fans and single individuals or groups will always find exceptions, but the multi-billion (yes billion not million) dollar business of advertising in NA have determined this...

Perfect example is the NFL - they're MADE on regional broadcasting. Show fans their team, and then hype a single weekly national broadcast to make a regular season game seem more important than just a regular season game (Monday Night Football)...

Carts...

Super
04-04-2010, 11:05 PM
As for the Serie A, it isn't slow paced. It's just as fast as the prem, except with more skill. Again, I'm talking about the average team.

Well, I most definitely do not agree, but then it's all down to personal preference. I do however see that the Italian game is struggling with poor attendance and international TV-viewership. There must be a reason for that. Again, I can't pretend to know what the Italian game is like today because I just don't watch it - and haven't for a good 10 years at least.


The fans don't want the salary cap, the investors want the cap. Joe Roth in Seattle said exactly that in the days before the CBA was signed, he would not have invested in a team unless the league had a salary cap.

That is true. I understand that owners want to protect their investment, but now that we're allowed 3 DP's, basically parity is kinda, sorta on its way out. It's just not done in a proper way. Teams will have super stars playing next to cheap players - because most of the cash will go towards Jens Lehmann, Thierry Henry and Angel (in the case of New York - perhaps as early as this summer). That's just not a proper way to build a league. But I'm sure the league will see this and then make changes - otherwise the more expensive American players will be forced to go overseas to get their 300k salary.


p.s. comments about diving and rolling around are bullshit. the premiership is just as bad about this now a days. there is no difference.. its a blight on the entire game, not any league in particular.

Well, I don't know if it's worse in the Premier League simply because I don't follow Italian football anymore, but I certainly seem to remember it being worse - and even more accepted - in Italy. Personally I've always hated it, and I like to think that the English fans don't enjoy it either. Maybe it's just more tolerated in other countries. Reminds me of the Honduras game in Montreal against Canada - and how the Honduran players were flopping about all over the place. I hate that - really, really hate that. Anti-football is what that is. And to me, that is what Italian football used to be. Glad to know it's changed! Shame no one is watching it now, though. They'll have to go on a promotional tour, not just in Italy, but internationally.

I do think you're spot on though about the TV production value of the Italian games. It's just not up to par with the Prem production - no matter who is playing. Having said that, I do think that the ESPN production value is freakin' awesome too. Once we get this league up and running, and slice the salary cap, the production value will help us to break onto the world-stage.

Pookie
04-04-2010, 11:15 PM
Perfect example is the NFL - they're MADE on regional broadcasting. Show fans their team, and then hype a single weekly national broadcast to make a regular season game seem more important than just a regular season game (Monday Night Football)...



Completely agree with your post.

Since it is your forte (can't make that little french accent thingy), curious as to what you think TFC can do to boost their own regional numbers?

Is it moving their games to a network like Sportsnet or TSN? The networks would then have a vested interest in "hyping" the game they will ultimately televise within their "Connected" or "Sportscentre" package.

I notice that when one of the networks is covering something like MMA or UFC, it usually ends up as one of the top 5 stories of the day. Seems to me like their highlight shows also serve as one big infomercial to promote their upcoming broadcasts.

Am I way off the mark?

Macksam
04-04-2010, 11:25 PM
i agree that serie a games judged purely on their football can be very good. in the last couple of years the gap between the top and middle tier of italian teams has closed considerably and this has improved the entertainment. this gap has closed partly because of the financial struggles of many of the top teams.

BUT there are many problems that face serie a in my opinion:

-teams parking the bus against the top sides makes for what looks like "slow football" considering we usually get the top sides games, there is a lot of this in past years, although the top sides are getting a lot more teams taking the game to them.
-poor production of telecast games. audio is poor, video is dull and lifeless. the video is bad even for a non-hd feed.
-lack of quality commentary. often times you get a single person who does a monologue. regurgitates rumors, etc constantly with no one to question his comments. horrible! there is a reason u need COLOR commentary
-stadiums are poor.. infrastructure is bad and compound that with the average italian fan beginning to avoid the ultras at the stadiums and u can get some pretty lifeless games. im not sure if they just don't wire up the stadium to pick up the ambient noise as much, but its usually pretty boring. big games at the san siro stand out because of the contrast. edit: THIS is what i think is the best about watching the premiership on tv.. there is a pulse to every game, as the action goes on u can hear the beat quicken and ebb... its great for engaging the fans attention.

Teams parking the bus against bigger opposition is a bigger problem in England and Spain. Like you have mentioned, a lot of the teams are starting to take it to the bigger teams.

I agree with production values, mainly sound and commentary. The feed isn't that bad though.

As for stadiums, a lot of the teams are trying to get new stadiums built, like Juventus so this problem should be rectified soon. Hopefully, for their sake, they'll win one of the next EURO bids to move this along.


Well, I don't know if it's worse in the Premier League simply because I don't follow Italian football anymore, but I certainly seem to remember it being worse - and even more accepted - in Italy. Personally I've always hated it, and I like to think that the English fans don't enjoy it either. Maybe it's just more tolerated in other countries. Reminds me of the Honduras game in Montreal against Canada - and how the Honduran players were flopping about all over the place. I hate that - really, really hate that. Anti-football is what that is. And to me, that is what Italian football used to be. Glad to know it's changed! Shame no one is watching it now, though. They'll have to go on a promotional tour, not just in Italy, but internationally.

No, people are still watching it.

Stryker
04-04-2010, 11:34 PM
I enjoy watching the Sounders play. The atmosphere is great for their home games and on a good day they can put together a nice string of passes.

james
04-05-2010, 01:07 AM
i agree that serie a games judged purely on their football can be very good. in the last couple of years the gap between the top and middle tier of italian teams has closed considerably and this has improved the entertainment. this gap has closed partly because of the financial struggles of many of the top teams.

BUT there are many problems that face serie a in my opinion:

-teams parking the bus against the top sides makes for what looks like "slow football" considering we usually get the top sides games, there is a lot of this in past years, although the top sides are getting a lot more teams taking the game to them.
-poor production of telecast games. audio is poor, video is dull and lifeless. the video is bad even for a non-hd feed.
-lack of quality commentary. often times you get a single person who does a monologue. regurgitates rumors, etc constantly with no one to question his comments. horrible! there is a reason u need COLOR commentary
-stadiums are poor.. infrastructure is bad and compound that with the average italian fan beginning to avoid the ultras at the stadiums and u can get some pretty lifeless games. im not sure if they just don't wire up the stadium to pick up the ambient noise as much, but its usually pretty boring. big games at the san siro stand out because of the contrast. edit: THIS is what i think is the best about watching the premiership on tv.. there is a pulse to every game, as the action goes on u can hear the beat quicken and ebb... its great for engaging the fans attention.

there is some truth to the style of play criticism as well, but i believe that will continue to decrease. teams have learned that trying to put 10 men behind the ball just allows a team like milan to slowly break them down, meanwhile many squads have had success or at least made a game of it by attempting to take the game to milan and attack them (and their aging backline).. what u get is a multi goal thriller of a game with much attacking. really can be fun!

p.s. comments about diving and rolling around are bullshit. the premiership is just as bad about this now a days. there is no difference.. its a blight on the entire game, not any league in particular.

1 Big reason i got turned off of Seria A was the whole match fixing that goes on. I know it happens in other leagues to but its often smaller leagues that you dont get on TV, or at least we know of. Then when they catch the teams for match fixinng in Seria A they are just slapped on the wrist. It seemed like nothing was really done to prevent teams from match fixing in the future, and i would not be suprised at all if its still going on in Seria A.

A 2nd big reason i just dont get into Italian Seria A is because the commentators are borring like you said. And i know Italy Ultras have great displays and good atmosphere but you dont see it or here it on TV. Also some stadiums the crowd is so far back from the field you cant see the crowd niether so on TV it seems like almost no one is in the stadium, it doesnt make you get to excited about the game when watching like that. Seria A arent the only league where the atmosphere is lacking on TV tho. There is many games on GOLTV that you can barely here the crowd even tho the atmosphere in the stadium is probably better then most English prem stadiums.

Keystone FC
04-05-2010, 02:46 AM
I really didn't follow MLS either until TFC came along. For me the MLS was Mickey Mouse from the start (i.e. Kits, Nicknames, Mascots, Volleyball like soccerball). If I watched MLS, back in the day, it was for the Championship.
I wasn't a real follower of EPL either. In fact I was more interested in J League and Serie A (Fiorentina) than anything.
Now, I have lost almost all interest in Serie A but still keep tabs on my J League clubs (Kitakyushu, Fukuoka in J2) and I find I watch more MLS games than before to see who our competition is (everyone), which players are coming along, and to see clubs I HATE lose.
I guess the real reason I didn't watch MLS in the past was the refs were (and still are) terrible.
When you have a poorly refed game then it usually becomes a poor game altogether.
In the past 2 weeks I have seen calls made that boggled the mind and seen stuff let go that would have been called even in Serie A.
It is my opinon that MLS will NEVER be a top league as long as we have refs that allow players to act as thugs on the pitch, and with TWO (2) more clubs coming in next season the quality of players will continue to be low. Has MLS gotten stronger since the first ever match...Yes...but only in the financial areas. MLS needs to have better quality refs in order to have a better quality league

Oldtimer
04-05-2010, 07:15 AM
I followed MLS before TFC was even announced.

DC United was my favourite team, and the Barra Brava were a good model of a supporters' group. I was considering taking a trip down to DC to see DC United play, when TFC was announced, and I never looked back.

koryo
04-05-2010, 07:53 AM
I still don't follow MLS as a league, probably never will.

On the whole, it's a poor league in my opinion.

Beach_Red
04-05-2010, 09:59 AM
More to this point, in the Leafs broadcast over 1-million of those 1.5-million viewers are in Ontario... of the 800k for the late game, 200k (at most) are from Ontario...

I know people have disagreed with my previous post about the viewing habits of North American fans, but it being my business for over 13-years, the numbers say that the majority of NA sports fans watch their own "market"...

Hardcore fans and single individuals or groups will always find exceptions, but the multi-billion (yes billion not million) dollar business of advertising in NA have determined this...

Perfect example is the NFL - they're MADE on regional broadcasting. Show fans their team, and then hype a single weekly national broadcast to make a regular season game seem more important than just a regular season game (Monday Night Football)...

Carts...

Yes, it's true, North American pro sports fans follow a local team and an "event" game, but the whole entertainment industry is now driven by "events." Giant opening weekends for movies, season finales for TV shows, all that wrestling and UFC event stuff.

Is it really any different in other parts of the world? Won't the Champions League final be the highest rated TV game of the year?

Whether it's good or bad doesn't even matter, it's what we have to deal with here and if MLS is going to survive it's what it's going to have to do - build local support and some kind of "event" games - a league needs both.

Fort York Redcoat
04-05-2010, 10:00 AM
Thinking about it, I guess overexpansion is so common in North America since so many share the attitude that they wouldn't watch the league if it wasn't for a team being right in their city. If I could only watch it on tele what league would I follow? Not a difficult decision when quality's considered.

ilikemusic
04-05-2010, 10:56 AM
I know this:

The quality of play is so much better in MLS games OTHER than TFC.

On top of having one of the worst teams in MLS for the past 3 seasons, we have been playing ugly football the whole time.

At least LA is fun to watch.

Agreed.

TFC has been a shameful representation of MLS since day one.

gtaguy
04-05-2010, 11:20 AM
Been a fan of the Mls even before TFC . My favorite team was the Miami Fusion 1998.
Back in the day it was difficult to keep up with the league becuase of the limited tv coverage even on the Monster C band satellites. Gotta say that the Sounders put on a good show and i do follow them with interest. Now that the tv coverage is much more prominent i do try to catch other league games more often.
I guess my whole reason for wanting to watch the MLS was becuase the league started bringing players from the old country so that automatically attracted my attention.

Anyone that compares MLS to any other league is just doing themselves and this league a disservice. Being a fan of the MLS for such a long time i can at-test that the quality of play has improved alot.

trane
04-05-2010, 12:10 PM
Love footy. Love TFC (it is a love hate relationship). HATE MLS. The only thing that I like about the league is that TFC plays in it, and to be honest the CONCAF CL is more important to me. Winning the MLS cup is a goal, BUT not because the trophy means something, but just because we bested a bunch of americna teams that I despise. I do not hate rival teams in Serie A as much as I hate other MLS teams. WHY? because I respect Milan's rival in Italy in Europe, they have history, tradiion, and play footy properly, ( Not so much Juve this year) I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR ANY MLS TEAM ( I may have more for some of the newere franchinses, but we will see how that goes).

Whoop
04-05-2010, 12:19 PM
TFC, unfortunately, is a terrible representation of MLS.

MLS, while not great, is better than what TFC portrays.

trane
04-05-2010, 12:21 PM
^ Agreed. I just do not like American footy nor American footy fans. I have like some of the players that have played for us, but in general I do not like American footy players. It is not rational it is emotional.

daner90
04-05-2010, 12:29 PM
I would watch more often but between watching all the other sports on tv, being addicted to video games and trying to have a marriage, it can get tough to find any extra time...

OneLoveOneEric
04-05-2010, 12:42 PM
There is far too much quality football on tv for me to be interested in MLS games. Especially in a world cup year.
TFC are the equivalent of a passion project for me. MLS is not.

Boschmeister
04-05-2010, 01:21 PM
Most of my buddies who are big into following entire leagues (MLB, NBA, NFL), and not just the team they are a fan off, are usually big into pools, stats, and gambling. Not to say they are not knowledgeable but they could really care less about the game itself.

Standup105
04-05-2010, 01:56 PM
So far this season, the quality of play has been pretty good overall in the MLS. I've watched the New York-Chicago, Houston - Dallas, Galaxy-Chivas, Houston-RSL games so far this season and they've all been pretty entertaining, with some quality soccer played by all teams; the problem with the MLS in my eyes is that every team can string together some nice passes but inevitably either makes a really bad pass or shanks the final shot wide (or shoot with the skill and power of a 10 year old) and so the quality of play ends up looking amateurish. With the exception of LA Galaxy, Seattle and Houston (who I would all say play very entertaining and enjoyable soccer) most of the teams just don't have the quality in the final 1/3 of the field to make the games truly entertaining.

Roogsy
04-05-2010, 02:00 PM
My biggest problem is finishing. Especially in the final third. I think that is where this league shows it's biggest weaknesses.

When it comes to athleticism...I think MLS has bigger, stronger and faster footballers than probably 99% of the football world.

But nobody can put a 30 yard screamer into the net like Ronaldo, have a wingback cross the ball on the dime like Dani Alves or finish like Rooney in the box when it counts. And that is what separates MLS from the big leagues.

Until we see true skill and finishing in this league, we will continue to have this discussion.

ginkster88
04-05-2010, 02:05 PM
I like watching Seattle when they play at home. That's really the only other MLS action I've ever watched. Dallas vs. KC? Houston vs. NE? Who really cares?