Today's News,Friday,Apr.02

[denime]

Mornin'


MLS teams allowed three designated players (http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/article/789316--mls-teams-allowed-three-designated-players)


In second season, time for de Guzman to deliver in Toronto (http://www.mlssoccer.com/content/second-season-time-de-guzman-deliver-toronto)


TFC poised to profit from expanded DP rule (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/james-on-soccer/tfc-poised-to-profit-from-expanded-dp-rule/article1521087/)


MLS makes changes to DP rule (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/04/01/sp-mls-dp.html)


MLS increased provision for star players (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=764927&sec=mls&cc=5901)



Academy Through To Quarterfinals (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/04/academy-through-quarterfinals)






SUNSHINE_ (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/):hurray:_:willy_nilly:_:drool5:_:yum:_:hump:

[Bluenose13]

Now if this was the case, would it change people's view on Mo ?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/james-on-soccer/tfc-poised-to-profit-from-expanded-dp-rule/article1521087/

"It will be interesting to see how Toronto FC react to this ruling – as if they didn’t know it was coming. Looking at their current squad it would be reasonable to postulate that they will use the ruling for at least one more DP spot, if not two, this season. What would be the advantage of waiting longer? It's season four and the city is hosting the MLS Cup.
Come to think about it, the whole process has been up their sleeves all long. Salary cap space has been a buzz word around the place these days – no wonder.
The signing of two additional DPs? Now that would be impressive."

[cementhead]

Now if this was the case, would it change people's view on Mo ?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/james-on-soccer/tfc-poised-to-profit-from-expanded-dp-rule/article1521087/

"It will be interesting to see how Toronto FC react to this ruling – as if they didn’t know it was coming. Looking at their current squad it would be reasonable to postulate that they will use the ruling for at least one more DP spot, if not two, this season. What would be the advantage of waiting longer? It's season four and the city is hosting the MLS Cup.
Come to think about it, the whole process has been up their sleeves all long. Salary cap space has been a buzz word around the place these days – no wonder.
The signing of two additional DPs? Now that would be impressive."He look like a genius, because all he is now a dumb
jackass!:facepalm:

[ensco]

Now if this was the case, would it change people's view on Mo ?



Mo's problem is the lying, his inability to identify talent, and the signing of people to absurd contracts.

I think many people here don't want Mo to have spending power and cap space for fear of what he would do with it.

[koryo]

Now if this was the case, would it change people's view on Mo ?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/james-on-soccer/tfc-poised-to-profit-from-expanded-dp-rule/article1521087/

"It will be interesting to see how Toronto FC react to this ruling – as if they didn’t know it was coming. Looking at their current squad it would be reasonable to postulate that they will use the ruling for at least one more DP spot, if not two, this season. What would be the advantage of waiting longer? It's season four and the city is hosting the MLS Cup.
Come to think about it, the whole process has been up their sleeves all long. Salary cap space has been a buzz word around the place these days – no wonder.
The signing of two additional DPs? Now that would be impressive."

My opinion of Johnston won't change. He's still a lying bastard. He's still not done the job and it's going to take more than two DPs to fix this team.

[Technorgasm]

My opinion of Johnston won't change. He's still a lying bastard. He's still not done the job and it's going to take more than two DPs to fix this team.

I am surprised by this news.
But in no way was Mo surprised. . . .

The strike threat leading up to the begining of the season has to be recognized and remembered as the disruptive force that it was

. .. either as a legitimate block to bringing DP pl;ayers for trials in Toronto (ala Huckerbee and McBride) or as the excuse MO and possibly the other GMs around the league will use for not singing any.

We are talking MLSE here. . . keeping the profits rolling is priority one.
Toronto Maple LEafs are head and shoulders above any other team with $79.8M in profits per season in the NHL and they have no problems raising ticket prices even though they have not made th playoffs.

my question is . . . Will we spend this year BECAUSE we are hosting the Cup?

Will this be another MLSE boardroom success story that NOT echoed in results?

[deeznutz]

Sooooo....

DP1=335k on cap
DP2=?
DP3=250k on cap?

DP1+DP2=585k toward the cap not taking into value DP3 - 2.55mil cap leaves a team with 1.965mil to spend on a roster??

[DOMIN8R]

^ E|xcellent question

Since I'm feeling lazy this morning- can someone post a summary table showing DP slots, cap hits and remainder cap space?

[Carts]

Now if this was the case, would it change people's view on Mo ?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/james-on-soccer/tfc-poised-to-profit-from-expanded-dp-rule/article1521087/

"It will be interesting to see how Toronto FC react to this ruling – as if they didn’t know it was coming. Looking at their current squad it would be reasonable to postulate that they will use the ruling for at least one more DP spot, if not two, this season. What would be the advantage of waiting longer? It's season four and the city is hosting the MLS Cup.
Come to think about it, the whole process has been up their sleeves all long. Salary cap space has been a buzz word around the place these days – no wonder.
The signing of two additional DPs? Now that would be impressive."

Winning cures everything...

I'm not saying people will suddenly change their view of Mo, but if we're top of the table, then make a run to the finals - people won't be calling for his head on a daily basis...

Carts...

[James Oliphant]

Sooooo....

DP1=335k on cap
DP2=?
DP3=250k on cap?

DP1+DP2=585k toward the cap not taking into value DP3 - 2.55mil cap leaves a team with 1.965mil to spend on a roster??

No. All DPs count for a $335,000 cap hit.

The $250,000 is the amount a team has to give the league in order to buy a third DP SLOT. That third DP, when signed, still counts as much as the first and second ones. And the $250,000 gets distributed evenly (as allocation cash) to all teams which have not yet signed two DPs.

$335k is approximately 13% of the current cap. Three DPs would be about 39%....$1.005 million, leaving 1.545 million to spend on the rest of the roster.

However, teams can use allocations to buy down the cap hit on Designated Players to as low as $150,000.

[Oldtimer]

The first calls for Mo's head were in 2007 after TFC's second game.

I didn't jump on the anti-Mo bandwagon in 2007 & 2008. It was too soon to judge. It was when it became clear that the problems with the team were being caused by Mo and his ways (lying, mistreating DD, the way in which he mistreated Serioux, the locker-room divisions) that I realized that Mo must go.

I've never disputed that Mo is a great drafter, and knows how to use MLS rules to his advantage. He's also ruthless, highly political, and a poor judge when it comes to older players or how much to give in salary. He's the biggest handicap to a successful team on the pitch. Being sly about the changes to the DP rule doesn't change any of this, especially when he freed up the space by dumping Serioux in a nasty manner while keeping he and Preki's friend Nick Garcia.

[Technorgasm]

I hope we all appreciate how big this news actually is.

- The league is taking the quality of football, and the future of the league seriously.

- We might actually be able to see some real STARS of world football

- As one of, if not THE most profitable team in the league, and a majour player in North american sport as our owners group WITH Local government backing and support we are uniquely positioned to take full advantage of these new rules. . . but will we

[Technorgasm]

PS. .

"DP" = lol

[canadian_bhoy]

Now if this was the case, would it change people's view on Mo ?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/james-on-soccer/tfc-poised-to-profit-from-expanded-dp-rule/article1521087/

"It will be interesting to see how Toronto FC react to this ruling – as if they didn’t know it was coming. Looking at their current squad it would be reasonable to postulate that they will use the ruling for at least one more DP spot, if not two, this season. What would be the advantage of waiting longer? It's season four and the city is hosting the MLS Cup.
Come to think about it, the whole process has been up their sleeves all long. Salary cap space has been a buzz word around the place these days – no wonder.
The signing of two additional DPs? Now that would be impressive."

I'll believe it when I see it.

I am hesitant to believe that TFC will sign 2 DP players this season.

Even more worrisome is that Mo is the one pulling the trigger. I hope Mo doesn't bring in some big money duds that we're stuck with long after he is sent packing.

[Redcoe15]

Now if this was the case, would it change people's view on Mo ?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/james-on-soccer/tfc-poised-to-profit-from-expanded-dp-rule/article1521087/

"It will be interesting to see how Toronto FC react to this ruling – as if they didn’t know it was coming. Looking at their current squad it would be reasonable to postulate that they will use the ruling for at least one more DP spot, if not two, this season. What would be the advantage of waiting longer? It's season four and the city is hosting the MLS Cup.
Come to think about it, the whole process has been up their sleeves all long. Salary cap space has been a buzz word around the place these days – no wonder.
The signing of two additional DPs? Now that would be impressive."
Even if it were true, that Mo could saw this coming, I've lost faith in his ability to build this club. He'd only find a way to screw it up.

[Waggy]

I would absolutely change my tune on Mo if this was his plan all along (and it was proven). Simply because clearing cap space for a pending rule change is something he can't say until the league announces it. So actually, by giving no answer as to why we were dumping Carl and Amado for basically nothing, he WAS not lying since he couldn't tell the truth. But it all depends on 1) who we sign in the DP slots and 2) how quickly it gets done. If he can address the striker and CB problem, particularly with someone fairly significant (even at just 1 of the 2), I would have no problem admitting I was wrong about Mo and apologizing. Otherwise, get the bum outta here!

[Luanda]

Yet, none of the current trialists can be considered DP material, can they?

[Whoop]

I'll believe it when I see it.

I am hesitant to believe that TFC will sign 2 DP players this season.

Even more worrisome is that Mo is the one pulling the trigger. I hope Mo doesn't bring in some big money duds that we're stuck with long after he is sent packing.

This.

[Whoop]

Besides, isn't DeRo already our second DP?

[Roogsy]

Mo's problem is the lying, his inability to identify talent, and the signing of people to absurd contracts.

I think many people here don't want Mo to have spending power and cap space for fear of what he would do with it.

Bang on.

[ManUtd4ever]

I think we have to temper our expectations for additional DP's this season simply because there is not enough cap space available at the moment for reasons we are all well aware of. Unless the roster overhaul continues TFC will not be able to exploit the designated player options until next season. It is depressing that TFC's obligation on the contracts of Garcia, Robbo, and Gerba combined are the equivalent of almost 2 DP slots in terms of cap space...:facepalm:

[greatwhitenorf]

I'm just gonna wait til the summer transfer opens up and see who we get in. It's obvious that Preki and Mo have cleared the decks to let them add as the season progresses.

I think they'll add some good new players in soon - maybe even go for a 3rd DP -and we'll be better in the second half andl make the playoffs. If bottom seeded playoff teams can win the title, or at least make the final, no reason to go diving down the well this early in the season.

And if they continue to provide us with mediocre teams to watch, I'll continue to abstain from buying merchandise, food or drink at the park.

[Cashcleaner]

I'll believe it when I see it.

I am hesitant to believe that TFC will sign 2 DP players this season.

Even more worrisome is that Mo is the one pulling the trigger. I hope Mo doesn't bring in some big money duds that we're stuck with long after he is sent packing.

I'm glad someone else is thinking with his head. How long was the DP rule in effect before we picked up de Guzman? And I don't know about the rest of you, but it certainly seemed like we had to kick and scream like a bunch of brats to get him as well.

As far as I'm concerned, aside from any cap issues, there's no good reason why Toronto shouldn't be fielding as many DPs as we can get our hands on. Again - second most profitable club in the league and all...

[deeznutz]

As far as I'm concerned, aside from any cap issues, there's no good reason why Toronto shouldn't be fielding as many DPs as we can get our hands on. Again - second most profitable club in the league and all...


If you know your going to sell out win or lose why spend on a DP? It's the same story with the leafs....Put a shit product out to the people and the stands still fill up......

It's still way to early to tell what MO is doing but FFS how many times have we heard him say......."We got our eyes on this or that" Only to come back with a tan and some key chains from where ever on gods green earth he goes to!

I am not holding my breath on anything but like CB said above make sure its a good DP because after he goes packing were stuck with it!

[DOMIN8R]

My understanding is that to secure the $$$ for our first DP, MLSE BoG had to approve the expenditure. I suspect the same would hold true for the second/third DP as well.

[deeznutz]

My understanding is that to secure the $$$ for our first DP, MLSE BoG had to approve the expenditure. I suspect the same would hold true for the second/third DP as well.


I think you are right.

[FluSH]

shit the DP change was not an April fool's joke!!!! I didn't even bothere to read all the shit yesterday b/c of it

[Carts]

My understanding is that to secure the $$$ for our first DP, MLSE BoG had to approve the expenditure. I suspect the same would hold true for the second/third DP as well.

I have no inside information or anything, but I agree 100% that is probably the case...

MLSE isn't going to give Mo and blank cheque and say "...spend what you want..." in a sport that has guys making $100,000 per week in Europe... They're smarter businessmen than that...

I know for us as fans its frustrating, but for a business like MLSE, TFC is still "new" and they're still feeling out the long term $$$ involved in the franchise...

Hopefully, Mo/Preki can identify a legit, game-changing DP that comes in at a price the MLSE BOG says "yes" to, and we get him on the field (summer transfer window is not that far off)...

Also, if the 3rd DP slot is not going to be used on a new player, with the cap hit changing, making Dero a DP, giving him a raise while lowering his cap hit would be a good move in my opinion as well...

Carts...

[ParadymeTFC]

Besides, isn't DeRo already our second DP?

This.

There is no way DeRo will be sticking around if we sign another DP and it isn't him.

By the time this so called "Plan" rolls out it will be too late in the season and the team will have to re-gel all over again.

It will just be MLSE throwing paper money on a burning house to try and put it out.

[FluSH]

My opinion of Johnston won't change. He's still a lying bastard. He's still not done the job and it's going to take more than two DPs to fix this team.

I've always said around here that he didn't get the nickname Trader Mo for sitting on his ass... in regards to pulling trades, he's done far better than his mistakes... and every GM has made mistakes.

[Bluenose13]

If you know your going to sell out win or lose why spend on a DP? It's the same story with the leafs....Put a shit product out to the people and the stands still fill up......

Deez......This is the worst argument possible. Do you really believe that the suits & bean counters at MLSE don't want the millions & millions of dollars that comes with playoff revenue?

[Bluenose13]

My understanding is that to secure the $$$ for our first DP, MLSE BoG had to approve the expenditure. I suspect the same would hold true for the second/third DP as well.I am sure it would, but who's to say that the answer won't be the same as the 1st time, absolutely yes. Every Raptor & Leaf GM has said after they left the team that they were never turned down by the BOG when it came to spending money on players.

[Beach_Red]

The first calls for Mo's head were in 2007 after TFC's second game.

I didn't jump on the anti-Mo bandwagon in 2007 & 2008. It was too soon to judge. It was when it became clear that the problems with the team were being caused by Mo and his ways (lying, mistreating DD, the way in which he mistreated Serioux, the locker-room divisions) that I realized that Mo must go.

I've never disputed that Mo is a great drafter, and knows how to use MLS rules to his advantage. He's also ruthless, highly political, and a poor judge when it comes to older players or how much to give in salary. He's the biggest handicap to a successful team on the pitch. Being sly about the changes to the DP rule doesn't change any of this, especially when he freed up the space by dumping Serioux in a nasty manner while keeping he and Preki's friend Nick Garcia.


Meh, the more I look at this team the less I think Mo is running it, he's a front. If the fans scream enough he'll be replaced by another First Wave guy who will do exactly the same things - it's the perfect set-up for them and MLSE, they just keep changing front-men and they're jobs are all safe.

The handicap to this team is way bigger than one guy.

[Carts]

Deez......This is the worst argument possible. Do you really believe that the suits & bean counters at MLSE don't want the millions & millions of dollars that comes with playoff revenue?

Very true...

This argument or "reasoning" has stuck with the Leafs ever since Harold Ballard was quoted as saying "...why would I want Gretzky? Its not like I can sell any more seats..." following Gretzky's rumored movement (which started years before the actual trade in 1988)...

The Leafs, as much as they have struggled, are not the same organization as they were back then... Winning a Stanley Cup would probably triple profits for MLSE, and in a salary cap world (in both NHL & MLS) spending is somewhat controlled so winning means pure $$$ in the pockets - something every business wants...

Carts...

[Beach_Red]

I am sure it would, but who's to say that the answer won't be the same as the 1st time, absolutely yes. Every Raptor & Leaf GM has said after they left the team that they were never turned down by the BOG when it came to spending money on players.


What?!?! Fletcher got turned down trying to sign Wayne Gretzky - he said he had a deal and the BoG turned it down. Remember, Gretzky said he went to bed thiking he was Maple Leaf and woke up the next dayand had to make a deal with St. Louis.

[CoachGT]

What?!?! Fletcher got turned down trying to sign Wayne Gretzky - he said he had a deal and the BoG turned it down. Remember, Gretzky said he went to bed thiking he was Maple Leaf and woke up the next dayand had to make a deal with St. Louis.

Flecther got turned down after the Leafs had spent money for a couple of years and still didn't make it through to the main prize. The Leafs were going into one of many "rebuilding/retrenching" phases post Ballard. Some key players wanted out by then, and as much as Fletcher himself wanted Gretzky, the key word amongst the team at the time was cost management.

I'm not sure that TFC is in the same position today. And I'm pretty sure that all MLSE execs and staff would sell their eye teeth to have a winning team today in any of their respective sports. The team that moves Toronto out of this bottom feeder funk will be kings!

[ManUtd4ever]

I am sure it would, but who's to say that the answer won't be the same as the 1st time, absolutely yes. Every Raptor & Leaf GM has said after they left the team that they were never turned down by the BOG when it came to spending money on players.


Very true...

This argument or "reasoning" has stuck with the Leafs ever since Harold Ballard was quoted as saying "...why would I want Gretzky? Its not like I can sell any more seats..." following Gretzky's rumored movement (which started years before the actual trade in 1988)...

The Leafs, as much as they have struggled, are not the same organization as they were back then... Winning a Stanley Cup would probably triple profits for MLSE, and in a salary cap world (in both NHL & MLS) spending is somewhat controlled so winning means pure $$$ in the pockets - something every business wants...

Carts...

Agreed. I've mentioned it before as well. Why does MLSE have a bad rap as far as expenditures on player personnel? The Leafs and Raps both have a payroll that maximizes the allotment of resources under the salary cap. Likewise, MLSE has already demonstrated a willingness to invest in TFC both on and off the pitch. The only concern we should have is whether the financial resources that are made available to TFC management are spent wisely...

[ManUtd4ever]

What?!?! Fletcher got turned down trying to sign Wayne Gretzky - he said he had a deal and the BoG turned it down. Remember, Gretzky said he went to bed thiking he was Maple Leaf and woke up the next dayand had to make a deal with St. Louis.

True, but that was a different regime wherein Steve Stavro was the majority shareholder and the ultimate authority. If I recall correctly, it was primarily Stavro's decision to turn down Fletch...

[ag futbol]

Mo's problem is the lying, his inability to identify talent, and the signing of people to absurd contracts.

I think many people here don't want Mo to have spending power and cap space for fear of what he would do with it.
That's the boat i'm in.

Mo Johnston just signed Robinson and Gerba last fall FFS. Those were dumb moves regardless of the changes made to the cap recently.

[menefreghista]

People who think the Leafs don't need to start winning to still be a box office success haven't been paying attention. The Leafs have started to find it harder to sell tickets. They had a number of corporate boxes unsold this season and tickets are always available for most games on ticketmaster. Not making the playoffs for 5 straight seasons is actually starting to have an affect. The Leafs froze ticket prices for next year for a reason.

The same thing goes for TFC. The team is at a cross-roads in terms of its support. They really do need to start winning now to keep the fan base paying attention. They can only live off the newness for so long. Go to ticketmaster's website right now and you can still get tickets for the TFC home opener. That would have been unheard of in seasons 1-3. Its going to be interesting to see how fast Preki can turn this team around.

[Cashcleaner]

Deez......This is the worst argument possible. Do you really believe that the suits & bean counters at MLSE don't want the millions & millions of dollars that comes with playoff revenue?

You've been drinking the kool-aid it seems, Bluenose. That whole argument is a falacy.

Nothing is guaranteed in sports and the highest spending club isn't always the best on the field. It is still a risk to spend the cash on the players that might help get you to playoffs, and if you don't reach that goal, it can be argued that all the new talent was a waste of money. Yes, TFC could stand to reap in some good coin for making the playoffs, but to acquire the players that can get us there requires a significant up-front investment that is not guaranteed to pay-off in the long run.

And yes, I really wish people would stop with that argument because it's fundamentally flawed. It's never about how much the club has to spend, but rather how much of a risk do they want to take.

[tfc2008]

Count Thierry Henry among MLS believers
td.yspwidearticlebody { font-size: 13.5px; }By Martin Rogers (http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/expertsarchive;_ylt=Ak9KCsKGdxIizq0Wubq2RladXYp4?a uthor=Martin+Rogers), Yahoo! Sports
October 18, 2007
http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/cn/headshots/martin_rogers_08.jpg (http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/expertsarchive;_ylt=AuOMq7Ugwrcgzp8aII4WYx.dXYp4?a uthor=Martin+Rogers)http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/p/yse_lo_70x24_2.gif (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/sports/yhoo/sow/article/SIG=11daaeced;_ylt=AtZXQm6TqbzH10VjLwa3MHmdXYp4/*http%3A//sports.yahoo.com/top/expertscorner)Critics of Major League Soccer can deride the standard of play all they want, but they will not prevent the arrival of more international superstars over the next few years.
While he probably won't turn up in MLS for at least three years, French striker Thierry Henry has given the league a huge lift by revealing he plans to end his career in New York.
Henry's comments in the New York Times reflect the increased interest in MLS around the worldwide soccer community. They're a barometer of how more leading players are considering following David Beckham across the Atlantic.
Henry, 30, is under contract at Barcelona until 2011 and feelings can obviously change. But read his words and make up your own mind.
"I always say that one day I can play over there," Henry said. "I would love to. It's still early.
ADVERTISEMENT
"Don't get me wrong, I just love the U.S. I don't know why. I love the way you live. I love American sports. For me, it's a dream to go to training and then see a game of football, basketball, whatever game. For me, New York is the best city in the world."
The pedigree of Henry is beyond question or reproach. In seven years with Arsenal, he became one of the most influential players in English Premiership history, finishing as the runner-up for the 2003 and 2004 FIFA World Player of the Year awards. He is still regarded as one of the world's best strikers, and in Europe, he is an icon few can claim to parallel.
When I compiled a list of international stars Major League Soccer should look to sign, plenty of readers questioned the decision to include Henry at No. 6. The common complaint: "Why would a worldwide superstar such as Henry want to come and play in North America?"
But those who love to bash MLS overlook a key factor – lifestyle. Sure, the standard of play is not yet close to the levels of the leading European leagues, but the fact remains that plenty of people want to come here.
For the thousands of Europeans who flock to New York City on vacation each year, it feels like the center of the universe. For a man like Henry, who cannot escape the spotlight wherever he treads in his own continent, the anonymity he is afforded when he visits the Big Apple is refreshing and enticing.
And take note MLS bashers: Players, coaches and people in the international soccer world no longer look upon the American game with tilted-nose scorn. There is a general level of fascination with how much progress soccer can make here. There's an acceptance that serious growth is inevitable.
Now, I fully expect another stream of emails criticizing MLS with claims that Henry will only come to the U.S. for a final payday, or that he'll be looking for an easier ride in a lower-level league in the twilight of his career. Such statements are insulting to one of the finest players on the planet.
The man is a competitor and that personality trait is a constant theme running through his life. It will still be in place when he makes his likely move to New York. Martin Rogers is a staff writer for Yahoo! Sports

[ag futbol]

You've been drinking the kool-aid it seems, Bluenose. That whole argument is a falacy.

Actually, while spending does not guarantee success, statistically it's highly correlated with it.

So that chances of winning, without spending money goes down drastically. It's a necessary ingredient.

[rocker]

spending more money than your opponents is probably the strongest correlation.

[CretanBull]

Now if this was the case, would it change people's view on Mo ?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/james-on-soccer/tfc-poised-to-profit-from-expanded-dp-rule/article1521087/

"It will be interesting to see how Toronto FC react to this ruling – as if they didn’t know it was coming. Looking at their current squad it would be reasonable to postulate that they will use the ruling for at least one more DP spot, if not two, this season. What would be the advantage of waiting longer? It's season four and the city is hosting the MLS Cup.
Come to think about it, the whole process has been up their sleeves all long. Salary cap space has been a buzz word around the place these days – no wonder.
The signing of two additional DPs? Now that would be impressive."


I have no problem believing that MO knew 'something' was going to happen that would give him some flexibility, but I doubt that he knew exactly what rule changes were going to happen and made a plan based on that. I think the extent of his plan was "things are going to change that will benefit our situation, I'll keep that in mind and deal with that then". One would assume that even if the owners agreed that they'd have to make some changes that those changes would be debated and details would have to be worked out and agreed upon...it would be impossible to know what the ultimate out come of that process would be, so its hard to give Mo credit for having a plan that worked with the new rules.

More to the point, other clubs who had better cap management are now in an even better situation. We needed these rules to save our ass...other teams will see these rules as a bonus to their existing plans.

[menefreghista]

Meh, the more I look at this team the less I think Mo is running it, he's a front. If the fans scream enough he'll be replaced by another First Wave guy who will do exactly the same things - it's the perfect set-up for them and MLSE, they just keep changing front-men and they're jobs are all safe.

The handicap to this team is way bigger than one guy.

The one thing that scares me is that this team is set up for the classic MLSE game where the team management gets the blame and guys like Anselmi and Peddie always escape unharmed.

If the team fails this year Mo gets turfed. The next guy comes in and has to give Preki more time. But if the team does bad, Preki can be the new GM's fallguy. And the cycle continues endlessly.

[Bluenose13]

You've been drinking the kool-aid it seems, Bluenose. That whole argument is a falacy.

Nothing is guaranteed in sports and the highest spending club isn't always the best on the field. It is still a risk to spend the cash on the players that might help get you to playoffs, and if you don't reach that goal, it can be argued that all the new talent was a waste of money. Yes, TFC could stand to reap in some good coin for making the playoffs, but to acquire the players that can get us there requires a significant up-front investment that is not guaranteed to pay-off in the long run.

And yes, I really wish people would stop with that argument because it's fundamentally flawed. It's never about how much the club has to spend, but rather how much of a risk do they want to take.Yeah, OK........Tell that to the Yankee's & Red Sox. Fact is the Leafs & Raptors spend to the cap every year. You can call MLSE a lot of things & you would be probably right, but they have never been cheap when it comes to spending on players.

Trying to make the argument that spending money doesn't equal results is absolutely crazy. Does it 100% guarantee it, no not always but just look at all the Major sports champions & then look at their payroll it's no coincedence.

Manchester United, Chelsea, Barcelona, Real Madrid, NYY, Red Sox the list is endless spend the money & 9 out of 10 times you will put a winner on the field.

The Florida marlins & Tampa rays of the world will always have those one off amazing seasons but they will fall back with the rest of the non spenders quickly.

[ag futbol]

More to the point, other clubs who had better cap management are now in an even better situation. We needed these rules to save our ass...other teams will see these rules as a bonus to their existing plans.
Bingo.

What we've been doing lately, is the un-doing of things we did a mere 6 months ago. How is that prudent planning?

Has Mo Johnston really positioned himself to be in a better situation than other MLS teams? Definitely not.

[deeznutz]

As a "SHARE HOLDER" in a company it is in the best intrest of the holders than the people on the side lines.....Why pay X amount when we COULD make the post season when we can just pay Y amount and make a steady profit each and every year and sell out no matter what......You think the teachers pension which is union is going to dump loads of cash into a market that is not as solid or known or even as big as the top 4 leauges in North America?....At the end of the day its all about money plain and simple.....I would like for you to have someone tell you that part of your pension money is going toward a risk that is not 100% good on and we will see the tune you sing at the end of the day....

"Its all about the money"

[CoachGT]

You've been drinking the kool-aid it seems, Bluenose. That whole argument is a falacy.

Nothing is guaranteed in sports and the highest spending club isn't always the best on the field. It is still a risk to spend the cash on the players that might help get you to playoffs, and if you don't reach that goal, it can be argued that all the new talent was a waste of money. Yes, TFC could stand to reap in some good coin for making the playoffs, but to acquire the players that can get us there requires a significant up-front investment that is not guaranteed to pay-off in the long run.

And yes, I really wish people would stop with that argument because it's fundamentally flawed. It's never about how much the club has to spend, but rather how much of a risk do they want to take.


You really need to read the book Soccernomics by Simon Kuper. His analysis shows that the argument about spending money is not necessarily flawed in the vast majority of the sporting world, it is just very improbable that teams can get to the top without doing so. Relatively few teams in any sport get to the top without spending. The cap world in a couple of sports makes life more difficult, especially with a cap like the one im MLS, but not impossible. Over time (and there really hasn't been enough for MLS yet) it will probably bear the same result in MLS.

Spending wisely is another story altogether.

[flatpicker]

I am skeptical that MLSE will be willing to pay the extra dollars.
But, I think it's also worth noting that "extra dollars" in TFC language is not the same as "extra dollars" in Maple Leaf or Raptor language.

Perhaps what TFC considers "extra dollars" is not that big a deal to MLSE and the Teacher's Pension Fund.

[Bluenose13]

As a "SHARE HOLDER" in a company it is in the best intrest of the holders than the people on the side lines.....Why pay X amount when we COULD make the post season when we can just pay Y amount and make a steady profit each and every year and sell out no matter what......You think the teachers pension which is union is going to dump loads of cash into a market that is not as solid or known or even as big as the top 4 leauges in North America?....At the end of the day its all about money plain and simple.....I would like for you to have someone tell you that part of your pension money is going toward a risk that is not 100% good on and we will see the tune you sing at the end of the day....

"Its all about the money"I don't disagree that it's all about money, it always is. You have to spend money to make money at times & nobody understands that better than MLSE. Brian Burke & Bryan Colangelo are 2 of the top paid executives in either sport, both teams spend to the cap. If your theory is be cheap & still cash in then why spend to the cap & why spend millions on the top men to run the teams?

Simple answer try to win and make millions more on playoff tickets & TV revenue. How much more merchandise do you sell when your team is a champion vs a loser every year?

[Waggy]

This.

There is no way DeRo will be sticking around if we sign another DP and it isn't him.

By the time this so called "Plan" rolls out it will be too late in the season and the team will have to re-gel all over again.

It will just be MLSE throwing paper money on a burning house to try and put it out.

If that's his attitude then so long, don't let the door hit you on the way out. He's already very well paid, among the top 5-10% in the league. If he has a problem with TFC bringing in someone who is either clearly better or just as good but younger (or preferably both), and them making more than him, then his head is so far up his ass I don't know how he'd wake up in the morning. Give the man more credit then that.

And count me among those who feel MLSE will spend what it takes this year. They know we are losing patience, they know their luck could run out any time. This isn't the Leafs after all, they aren't guaranteed sell outs and merchandise sales and tv ratings no matter the success of the team, they NEED to succeed. Also as previously mentioned, MLSE does spend money. Traditionally as far to the cap as possible. And rumor has it they've already aproved Colangelo to pay luxury tax next season and go over the cap. MLSE may not always be the most competent, but they do invest in their teams.

[ag futbol]

As a "SHARE HOLDER" in a company it is in the best intrest of the holders than the people on the side lines.....Why pay X amount when we COULD make the post season when we can just pay Y amount and make a steady profit each and every year and sell out no matter what......You think the teachers pension which is union is going to dump loads of cash into a market that is not as solid or known or even as big as the top 4 leauges in North America?....At the end of the day its all about money plain and simple.....I would like for you to have someone tell you that part of your pension money is going toward a risk that is not 100% good on and we will see the tune you sing at the end of the day....

"Its all about the money"
Overly simplistic, and you're discounting the fact these people are investors, not historians. An investment that you purchase as close to a sure thing, has a pretty low risk/reward ratio. With something like TFC, it has a potentially high risk /reward ratio. they'll backup whether it's a worthwhile investment with research.

TFC is worth maybe 100M (at most, if I was over the top with how much it was worth). Teachers manages 106 billion dollars. TFC is less than a rounding error to them, they are more than able to take on the risk of growing this thing if they think it's worth while.

Who's to say they haven't invested so far? Their one downfall has been they haven't put success on the field. But Mo Johnston at the time we signed him was still close to a top paid executive in this league. We've invested in the right things, the wrong people are just running the show.

[icecoldbeer]

KC Wizards Michael Harrington get's punked on April Fools

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[MG42]

^haha that's great!

[denime]

This.

There is no way DeRo will be sticking around if we sign another DP and it isn't him.

By the time this so called "Plan" rolls out it will be too late in the season and the team will have to re-gel all over again.

It will just be MLSE throwing paper money on a burning house to try and put it out.

De Ro is not our 2nd Dp and he will never be one.
De Ro doesn't give a fuck about DP status,We can sign 5 DP's as long he making same $$$ as them who cares if you are DP or not.
As his current status De Ro is actually making more then what DP counts against the CAP.

TFC can sign a DP for 370 K, and DeRo is making more $$ than 2nd DP,do you think he would care about DP?

There is a difference between being a DP and being a highest paid player in the club.(what DeRo probably was promised before he signed the contract,with Liar MO)

[TFCUNITED]

KC Wizards Michael Harrington get's punked on April Fools

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NuhtHxoStSM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NuhtHxoStSM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

"Speech.....Speech." :D

[Northern Soul]

De Ro is not our 2nd Dp and he will never be one.
De Ro doesn't give a fuck about DP status,We can sign 5 DP's as long he making same $$$ as them who cares if you are DP or not.
As his current status De Ro is actually making more then what DP counts against the CAP.

TFC can sign a DP for 370 K, and DeRo is making more $$ than 2nd DP,do you think he would care about DP?

There is a difference between being a DP and being a highest paid player in the club.(what DeRo probably was promised before he signed the contract,with Liar MO)

How would DeRo be making more money than the 2nd DP? The DP can be signed for any amount of money, it is only the $335k that counts against the cap.

[Cashcleaner]

Yeah, OK........Tell that to the Yankee's & Red Sox. Fact is the Leafs & Raptors spend to the cap every year. You can call MLSE a lot of things & you would be probably right, but they have never been cheap when it comes to spending on players.

Trying to make the argument that spending money doesn't equal results is absolutely crazy. Does it 100% guarantee it, no not always but just look at all the Major sports champions & then look at their payroll it's no coincidence.

Manchester United, Chelsea, Barcelona, Real Madrid, NYY, Red Sox the list is endless spend the money & 9 out of 10 times you will put a winner on the field.

The Florida marlins & Tampa rays of the world will always have those one off amazing seasons but they will fall back with the rest of the non spenders quickly.

I know what you're getting at, but spending to the cap isn't really the argument as the DP rule throws a bit of a monkey wrench into things given how it's utilized.

The gist of what I mean is that the potential return from the revenues for playing in the post-season still may not entirely justify the acquisition of players who can help get a team there from a club's point-of-view. The equation is more complex than spend $X on players to earn $X in playoffs. You see, if it were a case that a typical high-end player's salary was only $100,000 and the club got considerably more than that for a single post-season match (let's say $1,000,000), then the cost spent on that players to bring the club into the playoffs is a good trade off. However, the cost of players is quite higher - especially DP-quality ones, so while you can argue that your chances of making the playoffs are greater, the risk vs. return equation is skewed because of the high cost involved.

[FluSH]

Deez......This is the worst argument possible. Do you really believe that the suits & bean counters at MLSE don't want the millions & millions of dollars that comes with playoff revenue?

+1 lets not even talk about Jersey sales... in fact if Deez' mentality about MLSE was true... why in the world would we get JDG? He is the least marketable DP out there in the league... in fact I cant recall the last time he was interviewed after a game or practice... JDG is like the DP that nobody knows...

[denime]

How would DeRo be making more money than the 2nd DP? The DP can be signed for any amount of money, it is only the $335k that counts against the cap.

If you sign a player for $350 he is a DP,that's how. ;)

[Beach_Red]

Deez......This is the worst argument possible. Do you really believe that the suits & bean counters at MLSE don't want the millions & millions of dollars that comes with playoff revenue?

So how come none of the suits or bean counters have been held acountable for all that lost playoff revenue? How come there are no consequences on the Board of Directors or senior executives for failing to make that money?

If it really was a high priority, people much higher up would have been replaced years ago.

The company is profitable enough to satisfy the shareholders who want to take as few risks as possible. You have to think like a pension fund, not some high tech billionaire gambler to keep your suit.

[Bluenose13]

So how come none of the suits or bean counters have been held acountable for all that lost playoff revenue? How come there are no consequences on the Board of Directors or senior executives for failing to make that money?

If it really was a high priority, people much higher up would have been replaced years ago.

The company is profitable enough to satisfy the shareholders who want to take as few risks as possible. You have to think like a pension fund, not some high tech billionaire gambler to keep your suit.Pat Quinn, Rob Babcock, John ferguson Jr.....These people have all been fired recently for poor performance of the teams that they were in charge of.

[deeznutz]

+1 lets not even talk about Jersey sales... in fact if Deez' mentality about MLSE was true... why in the world would we get JDG? He is the least marketable DP out there in the league... in fact I cant recall the last time he was interviewed after a game or practice... JDG is like the DP that nobody knows...


If history has taught YOU anything about ml$e is what? Please share with me? I would really like to know what they have done to the city OTHER than the Raptors taking first in their divison....JDG is cheap....Point proven on DP that nobody knows...Cheap DP....Here we go in our fourth year lets see what we do.......

[Beach_Red]

Pat Quinn, Rob Babcock, John ferguson Jr.....These people have all been fired recently for poor performance of the teams that they were in charge of.


So no one any higher up than that? Not one person on the Board of Directors has to answer for the fact that, "millions and millions of dollars" in revenue are lost by not making the playoffs and they just get to replace guys lower down than themselves and keep on doing what they were doing?

Seriously, how big a priority can the playoffs be when this is acceptable business practise?

[deeznutz]

Even Kevin O'leary would tell you...."Bottom line is investors dont like risks" A union does not like risks....I am in a Union and I dont want risks to my pension investment.

[TFCRegina]

Pat Quinn, Rob Babcock, John ferguson Jr.....These people have all been fired recently for poor performance of the teams that they were in charge of.

And how many of them were executives in MLSE? Zero. They're managers/coaches.

[Bluenose13]

So no one any higher up than that? Not one person on the Board of Directors has to answer for the fact that, "millions and millions of dollars" in revenue are lost by not making the playoffs and they just get to replace guys lower down than themselves and keep on doing what they were doing?

Seriously, how big a priority can the playoffs be when this is acceptable business practise?They replace the people responsible for putting the product on the field/court. They have also replaced them with some of the highest paid executives in either sport. Should Richard Peddie have been fired for hiring Babcock & Ferguson, probably but seldom in any sports organization does someone in Peddie's spot get fired. Not sure what sense the argument that a governor would or even could get fired/replaced for the product on the field. Afterall they have given all the resources available to the so called experts to run their teams.

There is absolutey no argument that some of the decisions that MLSE has made with the running of there sports franchises have been terrible. The argument here is they are cheap & that they don't care about winning, both arguments are rediculous.

[TFCRegina]

Actually, while spending does not guarantee success, statistically it's highly correlated with it.

So that chances of winning, without spending money goes down drastically. It's a necessary ingredient.

Well, it's a moderate to strong correlation. It's not a 0.8 by any means, it's closer to 0.6. I ran the numbers on the NHL over a 20 year period for an economics class a couple years ago. Typically the teams that made the most also spent the most and typically they did the best in regular season.

One delightful thing to note about that whole thing is Winnipeg was the worst earner in the NHL, and Quebec City was in the bottom 10. In fact, Phoenix, even though it remains the worst club in terms of finances, after adjusting for inflation, is still a richer team than Winnipeg ever was. I say this because I find it so stupid when people say they shouldn't have left Winnipeg...

And well...Quebec City...Colorado was a huge success and it was a smart move.

[TFCRegina]

They replace the people responsible for putting the product on the field/court. They have also replaced them with some of the highest paid executives in either sport. Should Richard Peddie have been fired for hiring Babcock & Ferguson, probably but seldom in any sports organization does someone in Peddie's spot get fired. Not sure what sense the argument that a governor would or even could get fired/replaced for the product on the field. Afterall they have given all the resources available to the so called experts to run their teams.

There is absolutey no argument that some of the decisions that MLSE has made with the running of there sports franchises have been terrible. The argument here is they are cheap & that they don't care about winning, both arguments are rediculous.

Prove it. How is it ridiculous? MLSE has had numerous opportunities to bring in qualified people for running sports teams. Have we seen any poaching? No. Have we seen any attempt to bring in people who actually know about the sport to oversee the GMs/Coaches? No.

Firing some middle management guys does not prove they care about winning. For the cheap part, I'll accept that, but only because Toronto sports teams tend to be very poorly managed and spend at the league caps if they can. The Leafs are a prime example of money pissed away on useless players and TFC is doing its best to follow in those footsteps.

[Bluenose13]

Prove it. How is it ridiculous? MLSE has had numerous opportunities to bring in qualified people for running sports teams. Have we seen any poaching? No. Have we seen any attempt to bring in people who actually know about the sport to oversee the GMs/Coaches? No. . Brian Burke & Brian Colangelo have been hired as the Presidents of their teams.


Firing some middle management guys does not prove they care about winning. For the cheap part, I'll accept that, but only because Toronto sports teams tend to be very poorly managed and spend at the league caps if they can. The Leafs are a prime example of money pissed away on useless players and TFC is doing its best to follow in those footsteps.No argument here.

[Beach_Red]

There is absolutey no argument that some of the decisions that MLSE has made with the running of there sports franchises have been terrible. The argument here is they are cheap & that they don't care about winning, both arguments are rediculous.

No, they're not ridiculous arguments. They're a monopoly busines,they're the only game in town so they're safe.

Look, maybe it's because I work in the film/TV business, but when a studio make a string of flops they don't fire the producers of the shows or the VP who gave the greenlight, they fire the CEO - happens all the time.

MLSE d not care ENOUGH about winning, or they'd make huge shake-ups in th corporate offices like any other company would if their top priorities weren't being met.

MLSE is just like the film company Alliance was ten years ago - they made a lot of money distributing foreign films in Canada (mostly US 'independent' movies) but none of their own movies made any money. Still, they never held their executives accountable for that. In fact, they just got out of film production entirely and concentrated on cable TV chnnels and distributing films made by others. And if the ports teams weren't a profitable, no-risk monopoly, even without making the playoffs, I'm sure MLSE would get out of the sports business and just build condos.

No company would keep top executives who've made so many "poor decisions," as you say, at their core business and pass it off on lower level employees. MLSE's core buiness is not winning championships, no one high enough up has their job depend on it so it won't happen.

Sure, they'd love to win a Stanley Cup or an NBA Championship or even an MLS cup - just not enough to makeit happen.

[ensco]

So no one any higher up than that? Not one person on the Board of Directors has to answer for the fact that, "millions and millions of dollars" in revenue are lost by not making the playoffs and they just get to replace guys lower down than themselves and keep on doing what they were doing?



This book's for you, Beach Red

http://www.amazon.com/Money-Nothing-Corporate-American-Trillions/dp/1416559930/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270237141&sr=8-1

[Lucky Strike]

A little something I came across:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/content/kimura-ready-fight-starting-spot



Kimura has faced many challenges in his soccer career—not least coming to the U.S. with no English speaking skills to land a soccer scholarship—but is adjusting to this one. He said he enjoyed playing with Wynne in the Chivas game and was reassured by the former Toronto star’s pace and positional sense.


Bhahahaha! He's a day late for April Fool's!

[TFCRegina]

A little something I came across:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/content/kimura-ready-fight-starting-spot



Bhahahaha! He's a day late for April Fool's!

Notice how bad Chivas USA is doing without Preki...two losses, at two games which could be considered home.

[ag futbol]

Well, it's a moderate to strong correlation. It's not a 0.8 by any means, it's closer to 0.6.

That's a very strong statistical correlation. It's explaining over half the outcome of the dependent variable.

But then again, I don't know the details of your study. This is probably the wrong place for us to be discussing statistics, but there's more to the story than simply the correlation number.

While i respect your study, I'd have to say that the research in this area is already robust, and they've pretty much pegged it down to what was stated already: spending doesn't guarantee success, but without it your drastically decreasing your chances of being successful. This is basically what the outcome of you're study is saying. If spending was 100% predictive, correlation would be 1.0, where it's point 0.6 it's telling you it's the largest factor but not the only factor. So if you're the NY Knicks are you hire a complete moron to run your team, it's still possible to lose. But if your resources are deployed properly, you'll be hard to stop.

[TFCRegina]

That's a very strong statistical correlation. It's explaining over half the outcome of the dependent variable.

But then again, it all depends how you've set up your study. Because nearly half the predictive value of the dependent is unexplained, it will be tremendously unstable in projecting outcomes.

20 years of the NHL play is a lot of data, it would pick up multiple things. From the post lockout cap environment, pre-lockout spending, pre-big spending days by NHL clubs. Those are really three separate eras, putting them all together makes it sloppy. You also need to determine how you're gong to define: spending, results, etc... It's a simple problem but the rigidities of real application are difficult.

While i respect your study, I'd have to say that the research in this area is already robust, and they've pretty much pegged it down to what was stated already: spending doesn't guarantee success, but without it your drastically decreasing your chances of being successful.

It was done in pre-cap era actually and my own work on it confirmed that it makes a big difference. It's not the be all, end all, but it certainly is a huge portion of it.