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brad
04-01-2010, 10:37 AM
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2010/04/mls-adds-second-designated-player-slot-per-team-clubs-allowed-to-purchase-a-third.html

Unless Ives is tricking us by saying it's not a April fools day joke - effective immediatly, all teams are given a second designated player slot, and an option to buy a third.

flambe
04-01-2010, 10:38 AM
Good thing MLSE has more money than God then!

billyfly
04-01-2010, 10:38 AM
I hate April 1st. Is there still that rule that it stops at lunch?

werewolf
04-01-2010, 10:39 AM
Now we can finally buy Lionel Messi.

boban
04-01-2010, 10:39 AM
Its on the main MLS site, so its probably no joke.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/content/mls-expands-designated-player-rule

ginkster88
04-01-2010, 10:40 AM
" each player counting $335,000 against the salary cap."

Thanks Mo...

brad
04-01-2010, 10:40 AM
I hate April 1st. Is there still that rule that it stops at lunch?

There is - but I think this one is serious. We'll find out in 20 minutes.

billyfly
04-01-2010, 10:41 AM
Now we can finally buy Lionel Messi.

'bout time I say.

brad
04-01-2010, 10:41 AM
Good thing MLSE has more money than God then!

Now we can hear for the next three years about how we can't find the right Designated Players to bring in while other teams snap up quality players.

Lucky Strike
04-01-2010, 10:41 AM
I hate April 1st. Is there still that rule that it stops at lunch?

I heard that too but never really thought it mattered given the vast number of timezones.

Stouffville_RPB
04-01-2010, 10:41 AM
Now we can finally buy Lionel Messi.

And Ronaldo :D

Then at least we could score enough goals to counter having Nick Garcia on the pitch.

Daveisonfire
04-01-2010, 10:42 AM
Its on the main MLS site, so its probably no joke.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/content/mls-expands-designated-player-rule

Wowow

This is awesome

I wonder if we have the cap space to do anything


...


This better not be a joke

boban
04-01-2010, 10:42 AM
Well throughout the latest CBA I have been hearing that Toronto is one of only 3 profitable clubs and would welcome a much higher salary cap than what is currently in place.
With the addition of 2 more DP slots lets see how long we will have to wait to see them get filled. Better not be the 2/12 years we waited for the 1st slot to be filled.

billyfly
04-01-2010, 10:42 AM
Traditionally (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradition), in some countries, such as the UK, Australia, and South Africa the jokes only last until noon, and someone who plays a trick after noon is called an "April Fool".[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools%27_Day#cite_note-0) Elsewhere, such as in France, Ireland, Italy, South Korea, Japan, Russia, The Netherlands, Brazil, Canada, and the U.S., the jokes last all day.


Crap....

Oblio2
04-01-2010, 10:43 AM
Trade all our DP slots quick!

Yohan
04-01-2010, 10:43 AM
i'm not going to comment on this until it's proven that it's not an april fools joke lol

Nodoubtguy
04-01-2010, 10:43 AM
hmmm....this could be interesting

and this quote is very specific

Fans who dream of watching the likes of Thierry Henry, Raúl and Ronaldinho on an MLS field at the same time can wake up. That dream is a reality.

brad
04-01-2010, 10:43 AM
" each player counting $335,000 against the salary cap."

Thanks Mo...

I'd assume that they are reducing the cap hit for existing ones. That would mean $185k of cap space back.

Oblio2
04-01-2010, 10:43 AM
Traditionally (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradition), in some countries, such as the UK, Australia, and South Africa the jokes only last until noon, and someone who plays a trick after noon is called an "April Fool".[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools%27_Day#cite_note-0) Elsewhere, such as in France, Ireland, Italy, South Korea, Japan, Russia, The Netherlands, Brazil, Canada, and the U.S., the jokes last all day.


Crap....

In my house, anyone playing a joke after lunchtime is called a cunt.

:)

DangerRed
04-01-2010, 10:44 AM
If this is true, Mo's a lucky fuck. He can spend his way off the cliff on which he's standing right now.

So, who are we buying?

boban
04-01-2010, 10:44 AM
Wowow

This is awesome

I wonder if we have the cap space to do anything

That's right. We keep a $250,000 under performing forward csz the DP doesn't fit in the cap.

drewski
04-01-2010, 10:45 AM
I'd assume that they are reducing the cap hit for existing ones. That would mean $185k of cap space back.


with Mo's umm...(whats the opposite of wizardry?), do we have room for a second DP, even with that $185k back?

Auzzy
04-01-2010, 10:45 AM
Trade all our DP slots quick!

Trade might be too complicated for Mo. He might just release the slots. Or somehow we will end up paying the salary for someone else's DP. ;)

Lucky Strike
04-01-2010, 10:45 AM
i'm not going to comment on this until it's proven that it's not an april fools joke lol

Same here, it sounds plausible but that would only mean someone thought about well crafting the joke beforehand.

Lucky Strike
04-01-2010, 10:46 AM
Trade might be too complicated for Mo. He might just release the slots. Or somehow we will end up paying the salary for someone else's DP. ;)

Give him some credit. We'll at least get a 3rd round pick out of it. :rolleyes:

brad
04-01-2010, 10:46 AM
hmmm....this could be interesting

and this quote is very specific

Sort of seems that way. And having those players wanting to come is the sort of thing that would force this change.

It all sets up nicely, doesn't it. New Stadium for a poorly attended team in the largest sporting market in the US. Change the rules to allow a bunch of very recognizable superstars to play there...

boban
04-01-2010, 10:46 AM
with Mo's umm...(whats the opposite of wizardry?), do we have room for a second DP, even with that $185k back?
You get rid of a player.

reggie
04-01-2010, 10:46 AM
great....paul dickov here we go...

Nuvinho
04-01-2010, 10:46 AM
As I said in the today's news thread, I wouldn't be suprised if DeRo got the 2nd DP slot....else he is going to be one pissed off individual.

Remember last year and his complaining about salary and DP status.

mmmikey
04-01-2010, 10:47 AM
I'd assume that they are reducing the cap hit for existing ones. That would mean $185k of cap space back.

this was my thought too. could this be the reasoning behind the "our cap space isn't as bad as ppl make it out to be" comments.. im guessing we fill in more depth first, and won't see a 2nd dp this year as we are still carrying some dead salary from robbo. :(

Pookie
04-01-2010, 10:47 AM
Probably true.

Under the rules for the last 3 years, teams could actually have 2 DPs since those slots were tradeable.

This just solidifies it and gives them an option for a 3rd.

Many have speculated with the "MLS' Secret Code for Distribution of Allocation Money" that many teams have already enjoyed 2 or more DPs... ie. LA Galaxy

brad
04-01-2010, 10:47 AM
with Mo's umm...(whats the opposite of wizardry?), do we have room for a second DP, even with that $185k back?

Actually, 80k. You can use allocation money to bring it down to a 185k hit.

DangerRed
04-01-2010, 10:48 AM
Uhh, I really hope this isn't a joke, but read the last sentence of the article:

"It all seems like a mathematical and administrative nightmare at this point, but it should make a few dreams come true for fans."

I don't know, something just doesn't ring right about that.

graeme117
04-01-2010, 10:49 AM
" each player counting $335,000 against the salary cap."

Thanks Mo...

by my calculations, mo has just found 65k more to spend... 400k - 335k = 65k extra cap space

boban
04-01-2010, 10:49 AM
As I said in the today's news thread, I wouldn't be suprised if DeRo got the 2nd DP slot....else he is going to be one pissed off individual.

Remember last year and his complaining about salary and DP status.
Fuck'em.
If he is going to be a winey bitch about it trade him.

JDG
04-01-2010, 10:50 AM
Its on the main MLS site, so its probably no joke.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/content/mls-expands-designated-player-rule

I'm going to treat this as a joke.
MLS site or not, look at the source. Why is Simon Borg telling us the news, an not Don Garber?

This is a league that has witheld announcements even though everyone already knew the facts, simply because Mr Garber was not in town to make the announcement himself.

To break with this tradition on April 1st with such big news? :facepalm:

Yohan
04-01-2010, 10:50 AM
Uhh, I really hope this isn't a joke, but read the last sentence of the article:

"It all seems like a mathematical and administrative nightmare at this point, but it should make a few dreams come true for fans."

I don't know, something just doesn't ring right about that.
yeah. with the Don commenting on new DP rule on Tues, just to set up this joke?

helluva clever if so

drewski
04-01-2010, 10:52 AM
I'm going to treat this as a joke.
MLS site or not, look at the source. Why is Simon Borg telling us the news, an not Don Garber?

This is a league that has witheld announcements even though everyone already knew the facts, simply because Mr Garber was not in town to make the announcement himself.

To break with this tradition on April 1st with such big news? :facepalm:

good points. though given the talk of changes to the DP rules, this isn't outta the blue which helps its credibility

Nuvinho
04-01-2010, 10:52 AM
Based on the current players we have:

- 21 players, which includes Gerba
- 3 GAs (Frei, Ibbe, Herold)
- Gargan's salary unknown, so I put down $50K
- unknown how much SJ is paying Garcia
- unknown if the $145K for Gerba is 1/2 year or full year
- unknown amount for allocation
- with the new DP rules introduced

We have $195K in cap space.

Daveisonfire
04-01-2010, 10:53 AM
If this is a joke then...



:hulk:

ensco
04-01-2010, 10:55 AM
If this is true, DeRo is going into orbit if he isn't made a DP. You watch.

Krasno.pL.
04-01-2010, 10:55 AM
callitfootball (http://twitter.com/callitfootball)
It's Called Football will broadcast the live teleconference of the second DP announcement today at 1 pm

no joke? lol

JDG
04-01-2010, 10:55 AM
good points. though given the talk of changes to the DP rules, this isn't outta the blue which helps its credibility

Which is what will help make this a great joke. People will be so ready to believe this because of the preexisting chatter.

brad
04-01-2010, 10:56 AM
If this is a joke then...



:hulk:

Saying your joke isn't an April Fools day joke - that's a low blow...Aren't there rules against that?

Don Julio
04-01-2010, 10:57 AM
So De Ro will be our 2nd DP, which will actually allow us to save a bit on his cap hit while giving him a raise, then we can buy a 3rd slot and hopefully sign someone else. I don't know, maybe a striker ffs?

Chevy
04-01-2010, 10:59 AM
DeRo won't automatically become our second DP because of his salary (+400k). He will still count against the cap as he does now.

Pigfynn
04-01-2010, 10:59 AM
No way at all that this is a joke. #1 reason? It's not funny and noone would think so. You don't drag your fans through a lonnnnng off season CBA drama then piss them off more by playing stupid games.

onemanbarmyarmy
04-01-2010, 10:59 AM
If this is true, DeRo is going into orbit if he isn't made a DP. You watch.

Like I said in another thread. DeRo can't argue not getting DP money if we get the right dp. If we get RAul then he can shut his trap. If we get Atiba then he has a point.

JDG
04-01-2010, 10:59 AM
Ives is standing by the story:






SoccerByIves (http://twitter.com/SoccerByIves)

Just to clarify, Peter Nowak coming out of retirement IS an April Fool's joke. MLS going to a max of 3 Designated Players per team IS NOT. half a minute ago (http://twitter.com/SoccerByIves/status/11431367447)via UberTwitter (http://ubertwitter.com/)

Darlofletch
04-01-2010, 10:59 AM
so, if true, what do we do with this. do we go the preki way or the mo way.

preki way would be to move de ro to the 2nd dp spot, so we save a bit of money on his cap hit, as well as on jdg's cap hit, then use that money and whatever else we have to buy 4 or 5 competent but unspecacular players, and actually have a full squad.

or the mo way, bring in some big name, which uses all our cap space so we can't have a full squad again and de ro even more pissed off.

My heart says, oooh, shiny new player please, my head says proper squad, and then maybe add dp next year when we're not paying for robbo, gerba and garcia any more.

once again thanks to mo for putting us in this position.

Don Julio
04-01-2010, 11:00 AM
DeRo won't automatically become our second DP because of his salary (+400k). He will still count against the cap as he does now.

Pay him $1 more and save $65K in cap space.

Pay him even more, and maybe he'll quit whining about his salary. :D

boban
04-01-2010, 11:01 AM
So De Ro will be our 2nd DP, which will actually allow us to save a bit on his cap hit while giving him a raise, then we can buy a 3rd slot and hopefully sign someone else. I don't know, maybe a striker ffs?
What makes you think that?
If it is that he is made the 2nd DP then it would be the stupidest and most disappointing move.
Also, show us how committed MLSE is to winning (or lack thereof).

Pigfynn
04-01-2010, 11:01 AM
^^Darlo

2 good (200-245k) players. CB and striker...done

Nuvinho
04-01-2010, 11:04 AM
We also don't know how much allocation we have (don't go by the $600K GolTV said, because that's the amount they said we were saving with Guevara, Vitti, and Felinga gone). We can also use allocation to bring the DP salary down to $185K.

Fort York Redcoat
04-01-2010, 11:04 AM
Look, NY has a future after all...

Roogsy
04-01-2010, 11:04 AM
My guess is whatever happens with the CBA, DeRo's contract would be grandfathered.

Although I am not averse to DeRo as DP. What kind of production do you guys want in order to justify being a DP?

Darlofletch
04-01-2010, 11:05 AM
^^Darlo

2 good (200-245k) players. CB and striker...done

I'd settle for that.

Pigfynn
04-01-2010, 11:06 AM
What kind of production do you guys want in order to justify being a DP?




^ more than De Guzman has produced

brad
04-01-2010, 11:06 AM
Pay him $1 more and save $65K in cap space.

Pay him even more, and maybe he'll quit whining about his salary. :D

The league may not allow us to make DeRo a DP, even if we want to. They wouldn't let Dallas use the slot on Cooper.

Waggy
04-01-2010, 11:06 AM
Question for those who really understand MLS: If TFC decide we want to go absolutely insane and try and buy someone huge from a european club, is there ANY chance MLS will allow them to pay a transfer fee? Or does this only apply in real terms to footballers who are out of contract?


Edit: Also my (rudimentary) understanding of the rational behind the DP slot is that it isn't really supposed to be used for current MLSers, or even Americans too often (Donovan being the obvious exception). The idea is to bring in top foreign talent. The rest of the cap is to preserve American (and Canadian) talent.

Yohan
04-01-2010, 11:07 AM
Question for those who really understand MLS: If TFC decide we want to go absolutely insane and try and buy someone huge from a european club, is there ANY chance MLS will allow them to pay a transfer fee? Or does this only apply in real terms to footballers who are out of contract?
transfer fees come out of allocation money

boban
04-01-2010, 11:08 AM
My guess is whatever happens with the CBA, DeRo's contract would be grandfathered.

Although I am not averse to DeRo as DP. What kind of production do you guys want in order to justify being a DP?
15 goals. its also not just on field what they bring to the table. its all the other stuff.
Dero Dp would be an absolute waste.

Don Julio
04-01-2010, 11:08 AM
That's true, but if the league's ever going to do us any favours this would be the year. They want TFC in the Cup final.

If we sign 1 or 2 more DPs we can kiss DeRo goodbye.

SteeltownBhoy
04-01-2010, 11:09 AM
So De Ro will be our 2nd DP, which will actually allow us to save a bit on his cap hit while giving him a raise, then we can buy a 3rd slot and hopefully sign someone else. I don't know, maybe a striker ffs?

Exactly!! Make DeRo a DP, he already makes the Max so we save there, then because we have 2 DP we then go buy the 3rd for 250,000, no cap hit!! It's a beautiful thing!!

Nuvinho
04-01-2010, 11:09 AM
I like this news and all.....but where the F*** are our players? We need to bring in players ASAP.....DP or not!!!

onemanbarmyarmy
04-01-2010, 11:10 AM
My guess is whatever happens with the CBA, DeRo's contract would be grandfathered.

Although I am not averse to DeRo as DP. What kind of production do you guys want in order to justify being a DP?

World-Class-Striker.

Super Cereal
04-01-2010, 11:10 AM
If you say it's not an April Fool's joke, it can't be the one. That breaks the rules.

The whole idea is to catch people off guard.

Nuvinho
04-01-2010, 11:11 AM
Forget Raul.......bring in Henry!!! screw over the NYRBs. I am sure DeRo would enjoy teaming up with Henry...he'll take a pay cut ;)

ManUtd4ever
04-01-2010, 11:11 AM
One thing is certain, MLSE has no excuse if the financial resources are not allocated to utilize both the 2nd and 3rd DP options once the cap space is available in order to field the most competitive club possible...

DangerRed
04-01-2010, 11:11 AM
^ more than De Guzman has produced

You realize he's a DM, right? The decision to blow a DP slot on a DM can be questioned, but I don't see how you'd have much negative to say about probably the most creative, disciplined and proficient player on our team.

Waggy
04-01-2010, 11:11 AM
transfer fees come out of allocation money

So the biggest transfer fee in real terms an MLS team could pay, in a best case scenario, is between $1-2 mil? Why even bother with 3 DP slots if we can't pay a decent transfer fee?

Incidentally, anyone know of a solid list of footballers who'll be out of contract this summer?

boban
04-01-2010, 11:12 AM
Exactly!! Make DeRo a DP, he already makes the Max so we save there, then because we have 2 DP we then go buy the 3rd for 250,000, no cap hit!! It's a beautiful thing!!
Where do you read this??
It clearly states each DP slot is a $335,000 cap hit.

Chevy
04-01-2010, 11:12 AM
Exactly!! Make DeRo a DP, he already makes the Max so we save there, then because we have 2 DP we then go buy the 3rd for 250,000, no cap hit!! It's a beautiful thing!!

The thing is, DeRo isn't going to take one for the team and "volunteer" to be the second DP without something in return (i.e. $$$$). So we likely won't save anthing by doing this.

Waggy
04-01-2010, 11:12 AM
Forget Raul.......bring in Henry!!! screw over the NYRBs. I am sure DeRo would enjoy teaming up with Henry...he'll take a pay cut ;)

NO!!! Look where that got the Raps by stealing Turkoglu from Portland! No more bad karma! Let's get someone BETTER than Henry! haha

Rudi
04-01-2010, 11:13 AM
My guess is whatever happens with the CBA, DeRo's contract would be grandfathered.
What makes you think that? The MLS article says that even Mr. Grandfathered Contract (Landon Donovan) will be considered a DP now.

If DeRo gets a $0.01 increase, he'll have to be considered a DP.

onemanbarmyarmy
04-01-2010, 11:13 AM
He's a DP DM. Robbo or cronin would do the same job in same position. JDG was very sloppy on the weekend and Guevera had more skill and was way more of a goal threat.

Nuvinho
04-01-2010, 11:13 AM
Where do you read this??
It clearly states each DP slot is a $335,000 cap hit.

I think what he meant, was the $250K doesn't come out against the cap.

SteeltownBhoy
04-01-2010, 11:14 AM
My Mistake, I thought the 3rd didn't count against the cap, sorry!!

boban
04-01-2010, 11:16 AM
What makes you think that? The MLS article says that even Mr. Grandfathered Contract (Landon Donovan) will be considered a DP now.

If DeRo gets a $0.01 increase, he'll have to be considered a DP.
There are a few guys over the $335,000 mark. it doesn't mean defacto now they are DP. Donovan was a special case from the outset if I recall.

Rudi
04-01-2010, 11:17 AM
There are a few guys over the $335,000 mark. it doesn't mean defacto now they are DP. Donovan was a special case from the outset if I recall.
Right, which is what I wrote.

Carts
04-01-2010, 11:18 AM
You realize he's a DM, right? The decision to blow a DP slot on a DM can be questioned, but I don't see how you'd have much negative to say about probably the most creative, disciplined and proficient player on our team.

Using our DP slot on a Defensive Midfielder was a mistake... In this league, it just doesn't fit...

In this league, where the quality off the ball, creativity on & off the ball, and first touch is well below JDG's quality, it puts him in a very tough situation...

But it is fair to say that a DP should produce more than what JDG has brought to the squad (so far)...

That being said, I think Preki will contiue to "tinker" with JDG's role & place on the pitch, and will bring out the best in what he brings... His skill, vision, and creativity will come out (hopefully)...

We're stuck with him now, time to use him & get the most out of him...

So far (only 6 odd games or so) it has been a failure (results are results & his role is his role as DP), but Rome wasn't built in a day...

Carts...

Alonso
04-01-2010, 11:18 AM
I'd assume that they are reducing the cap hit for existing ones. That would mean $185k of cap space back.

EDIT: DP's now take a $415 cap hit, with the new rules we'd therefore clear $80,000 of cap space with DeGuzman and if we make Dero a DP another $80,000 for $160,000 total free'd cap space.

Please disregard the rest of my original post:

I remember hearing a rumor that Dero was promised DP status, I woulnt be surprised if he gets one and also freeing another $185K of cap space for a total of $370,000 of free cap space.... enough to buy a 3rd DP!

I'm really excited about the prospects for TFC now.... Not too many teams will be able to afford to keep 3 DP's, we'll be one of the few!

EDIT: After reading the rest of the post:I guess I wasn't the first to think of this

Yohan
04-01-2010, 11:18 AM
What makes you think that? The MLS article says that even Mr. Grandfathered Contract (Landon Donovan) will be considered a DP now.

If DeRo gets a $0.01 increase, he'll have to be considered a DP.
wouldn't DeRo have to be considered a DP anyways since his base salary is over 335k IIRC?

brad
04-01-2010, 11:19 AM
I like this news and all.....but where the F*** are our players? We need to bring in players ASAP.....DP or not!!!

I'm sure I'm giving Mo too much credit, but, assuming that they knew about this change before hand (Ives said that Nowak confirmed the rule, which tells me they would have), they could have things lined up but not able to move until this is complete.

There have been rumors of players coming before April 15th.

Nuvinho
04-01-2010, 11:19 AM
I only see NYRB and LA, other than us having the money to buy the 3rd DP slot.

DCU maybe, but then have other problems to worry about (relocation, etc.).

Pigfynn
04-01-2010, 11:20 AM
You realize he's a DM, right? The decision to blow a DP slot on a DM can be questioned, but I don't see how you'd have much negative to say about probably the most creative, disciplined and proficient player on our team.

This is really what I'm doing. I am completely aware of where he plays..but in this league a DM isn't worth that kind of money no matter how good he is. DPs should result directly in mega goals or mega goal prevention...nothing else IMO.

Waggy
04-01-2010, 11:20 AM
I only see NYRB and LA, other than us having the money to buy the 3rd DP slot.

DCU maybe, but then have other problems to worry about (relocation, etc.).

and Seattle

boban
04-01-2010, 11:21 AM
I remember hearing a rumor that Dero was promised DP status, I woulnt be surprised if he gets one and also freeing another $185K of cap space for a total of $370,000 of free cap space.... enough to buy a 3rd DP!

I'm really excited about the prospects for TFC now.... Not too many teams will be able to afford to keep 3 DP's, we'll be one of the few!
And, according to you, we had two of those DP on our team last year and DIDN'T make the playoffs.
Dero has a contract. Hold him to it and get 2 real DP's in here (attack minded DP's).

Yohan
04-01-2010, 11:21 AM
I only see NYRB and LA, other than us having the money to buy the 3rd DP slot.

DCU maybe, but then have other problems to worry about (relocation, etc.).
dont forget seattle

boban
04-01-2010, 11:21 AM
wouldn't DeRo have to be considered a DP anyways since his base salary is over 335k IIRC?
NOPE

Nuvinho
04-01-2010, 11:21 AM
and Seattle

correct!! sorry, I forgot about the little green men.

Philly may do this in a few years time, but not now.

Rudi
04-01-2010, 11:22 AM
I only see NYRB and LA, other than us having the money to buy the 3rd DP slot.

DCU maybe, but then have other problems to worry about (relocation, etc.).
Um, Seattle is making money hand over fist.

EDIT: Others mentioned it first ;)

boban
04-01-2010, 11:23 AM
I only see NYRB and LA, other than us having the money to buy the 3rd DP slot.

DCU maybe, but then have other problems to worry about (relocation, etc.).
Seattle has 32,000 per game with no stadium construction cost to finance. they have the money.

Yohan
04-01-2010, 11:23 AM
This is really what I'm doing. I am completely aware of where he plays..but in this league a DM isn't worth that kind of money no matter how good he is. DPs should result directly in mega goals or mega goal prevention...nothing else IMO.
Shalrie Joseph says you're wrong (though he's more of a 2 way mid than strict DM)

Alonso
04-01-2010, 11:23 AM
The thing is, DeRo isn't going to take one for the team and "volunteer" to be the second DP without something in return (i.e. $$$$). So we likely won't save anthing by doing this.


No but we don't need to save money, MLSE has trunks full of it, we need to clear cap room which this will do allowing for us to sign another dp for the cap space ($355,000) + (250,000) for the fee to the league + ($?,???,???) the contract to the player.

Waggy
04-01-2010, 11:25 AM
correct!! sorry, I forgot about the little green men.

Philly may do this in a few years time, but not now.

Agreed, same with Vancouver and potentially Montreal when they come in. This could really strengthen the overall quality of the league. Not to mention the economic strength. Even the smaller market teams would have to sell some tickets if an Henry and Raul combo is coming to town.

I'm super psyched about this. In my short time as an MLS fan and years of experience as a North American sports fan, I've never seen such potential from a league. With the right signings this summer, TFC could absolutely OWN Toronto. It wouldn't be that hard, on top of the world cup and soccer fever if we got 1 or 2 BIG names in here and were playing well, with the cup final in Toronto, TFC could potentially pass the Jays as the 2nd sport of the city. And I say that as a MASSIVE Jays and Raps and Argos fan. :scarf:

Lucky Strike
04-01-2010, 11:25 AM
I remember hearing a rumor that Dero was promised DP status, I woulnt be surprised if he gets one and also freeing another $185K of cap space for a total of $370,000 of free cap space.... enough to buy a 3rd DP!

I'm really excited about the prospects for TFC now.... Not too many teams will be able to afford to keep 3 DP's, we'll be one of the few!

EDIT: After reading the rest of the post:I guess I wasn't the first to think of this

A possible solution is perhaps to give Dero a DP slot by offering him a new contract but make the length of the deal shorter than what it would have been otherwise. For example, he's 31 so instead maybe of a new four year deal, he'd get just 2 at DP money. That way, he gets what he wants (more money) and there's an incentive to really produce. If he doesn't, he won't get DP money again.

Alonso
04-01-2010, 11:25 AM
wouldn't DeRo have to be considered a DP anyways since his base salary is over 335k IIRC?


The way I understand it no. DP's now take up $355,000 of cap space, but the highest you can pay a non DP is $450,000 or whatever it is.

boban
04-01-2010, 11:27 AM
(250,000) for the fee to the league + (($335,000 (cap space)) + $?,???,???) the contract to the player.
fixed ;)

CretanBull
04-01-2010, 11:27 AM
All the way through the CBA negotiations all we heard about was how the teams were broke and losing money...now they can suddenly have 3 players on each team making an unlimited amount of money?

The DP rule and allocation system is stupid. Make the cap $10,000,000 and get rid of all the crazy rules and sketchy accounting.

Alonso
04-01-2010, 11:30 AM
And, according to you, we had two of those DP on our team last year and DIDN'T make the playoffs.
Dero has a contract. Hold him to it and get 2 real DP's in here (attack minded DP's).

EDIT AFTER READING SOCCER BY IVES ARTICLE AND MLS NEWS RELEASE:

Yeah that would be ideal, but, I dont think we have 355 x 2 $'s worth of cap space.

Making Dero a DP would clear $80,000 plus DeGuzman who's cap hit goes down will also clear $80,000

Then we might have the cap room to sign a 3rd DP with the $160,000 cleared cap space.

Nuvinho
04-01-2010, 11:30 AM
based on the old rules (correct me if I am wrong with the salary amounts that counted):

Old rules: 1st DP (415K), 2nd DP ($375K) salary cap $2.32M = 34% of your cap

New rules: 1st DP ($335K), 2nd DP ($335K), 3rd DP ($335K) salary cap $2.55M = 39.4% of your cap

number crunchers at MLSE will be looking at the opportunity costs ;)

Waggy
04-01-2010, 11:31 AM
All the way through the CBA negotiations all we heard about was how the teams were broke and losing money...now they can suddenly have 3 players on each team making an unlimited amount of money?

The DP rule and allocation system is stupid. Make the cap $10,000,000 and get rid of all the crazy rules and sketchy accounting.

Until more than 1/4 of the league is making ANY kind of money (forget even breaking even), thats just unrealistic. It'd kill the league. These changes allow successful teams to spend within some reason, without absolutely killing the less successful teams. It seems fair to me. Esp since the fee for the 3rd DP goes to a pool for the teams without one. I wish there was a similar system in the MLB

Nuvinho
04-01-2010, 11:32 AM
GOLTVLee (http://twitter.com/GOLTVLee)

Funny! RT @footiecanada (http://twitter.com/footiecanada) TFC could make DeRo a DP 357,000 v. 335 DP hit & get an extra $22,000 under the cap then Lombardo can be resigned!

boban
04-01-2010, 11:34 AM
Yeah that would be ideal, but, I dont think we have 355 x 2 $'s worth of cap space.

Making Dero a DP would clear $185 plus DeGuzman who's cap hit goes down will also clear $185.

Then we could have the cap room to sign a 3rd DP with the $370 cleared cap space.
But your calculations work on the assumption you keep what we have already. I say get rid of it and sign a $50,000 bench warmer for terminating a Barrett in exchange for a DP.

NF-FC
04-01-2010, 11:35 AM
MLS to players union: "Sorry, we are broke. No free agency."
MLS to aging superstars: "Here is your truck full of money, and if you will just sign here on the dotted line, we can get you complementary blow job underway."

CretanBull
04-01-2010, 11:38 AM
Until more than 1/4 of the league is making ANY kind of money (forget even breaking even), thats just unrealistic. It'd kill the league. These changes allow successful teams to spend within some reason, without absolutely killing the less successful teams. It seems fair to me. Esp since the fee for the 3rd DP goes to a pool for the teams without one. I wish there was a similar system in the MLB

If the cap was $10m, teams wouldn't have to spend up to the cap...just like teams now don't have to bring in a DP (or two, or three).

Even if $10m is too high...maybe something like $7m (which would roughly be the existing $3m cap, plus $1.3m for each DP). Revenuing sharing etc. could still be a big part of things.

A $3m cap with 3 players making unlimited amounts of money seems a lot more unbalancing than a higher cap would be.

MartinUtd
04-01-2010, 11:38 AM
As I said in the today's news thread, I wouldn't be suprised if DeRo got the 2nd DP slot....else he is going to be one pissed off individual.

Remember last year and his complaining about salary and DP status.

That's interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't DeRo on league max which is actually more than $335k? If that's the case then we could give him the salary bump he deserves and claw back some space under the cap.

flatpicker
04-01-2010, 11:39 AM
I'm having a hard time figuring out how a team could afford 3 DP's and still buy any half-decent players to fill out the roster.

They really should have made one of the DP's not count against the cap.
I'm disappointed by this news.

Whoop
04-01-2010, 11:40 AM
Is it just me but there is a great way to create even more tension in a locker room.

If you're going to increase the DP slots, you might as well increase the salary cap substantially.

So now you'll have a group of guys making 100x more than some guys on the team. Not even in other major sports is the discrepancy so large.

rocker
04-01-2010, 11:40 AM
MLS to players union: "Sorry, we are broke. No free agency."

I don't remember MLS tying the money issue with free agency.
It was the single entity issue that they tied to free agency.
Secondly, the players even said the negotiations were "not about the money."

Nuvinho
04-01-2010, 11:40 AM
I'm having a hard time figuring out how a team could afford 3 DP's and still buy any half-decent players to fill out the roster.

They really should have made one of the DP's not count against the cap.
I'm disappointed by this news.

They could get Ruiz-ed, as per LA when they had Becks, Landy, and the Fish

MartinUtd
04-01-2010, 11:41 AM
Oops.. looks like the numbers game has been discussed at length already.

Waggy
04-01-2010, 11:41 AM
MLS to players union: "Sorry, we are broke. No free agency."
MLS to aging superstars: "Here is your truck full of money, and if you will just sign here on the dotted line, we can get you complementary blow job underway."

I think the point was the league as a whole is not financially sound. However within that single entity are individual entities (three to be precise) that ARE sound. This is a move to reward those successful ones without crippling the rest of the league. It's also a nod to the fans, and will improve the quality of play. I don't see how this is bad or inconsistent in any way. This is MLS saying: We realize Toronto, Seattle and LA are not the same as Columbus, Kansas City, San Jose etc. and we want to do right by Toronto in a way that also is right by Dallas. What's wrong with a bit of self awareness?

T_Mizz
04-01-2010, 11:41 AM
MLS to players union: "Sorry, we are broke. No free agency."
MLS to aging superstars: "Here is your truck full of money, and if you will just sign here on the dotted line, we can get you complementary blow job underway."
I think more business tranactions need to be accompanied by complimentary BJs

Waggy
04-01-2010, 11:43 AM
If the cap was $10m, teams wouldn't have to spend up to the cap...just like teams now don't have to bring in a DP (or two, or three).

Even if $10m is too high...maybe something like $7m (which would roughly be the existing $3m cap, plus $1.3m for each DP). Revenuing sharing etc. could still be a big part of things.

A $3m cap with 3 players making unlimited amounts of money seems a lot more unbalancing than a higher cap would be.

Right, but you'd have teams like Dallas who can only pay 2 million going against teams like Toronto that could pay 10. In baseball the Yankees only pay twice as much in salary as the Jays, imagine if they paid 5 times more? The difference in quality between the haves and have nots would be staggering. Dallas would have an 'average' player making 150-250 000 dollars, while the TFC average player would be 700 to 800 thousand. That's neither fair, nor entertaining. If that happened, I actually would feel bad when TFC beat the poorer teams

drexel10
04-01-2010, 11:46 AM
Right, but you'd have teams like Dallas who can only pay 2 million going against teams like Toronto that could pay 10. In baseball the Yankees only pay twice as much in salary as the Jays, imagine if they paid 5 times more? The difference in quality between the haves and have nots would be staggering


Not really, Dalls is allowed to sell out their stadium and make money and maybe they require a Mexican DP to do that???

ManUtd4ever
04-01-2010, 11:46 AM
In a league that is hamstrung to acquire talent due to salary cap restrictions the DP slots must be utilized effectively to provide the desired impact. In my mind, anything other than world class strikers and attacking midfielders is a waste of resources. Competent players can be signed for less than 250K to provide a defensive presence, Nick Garcia not withstanding...

rocker
04-01-2010, 11:47 AM
i still think the cap hit is probably too much. Some teams were scared off at 415... and probably will still be at 335K... and I can't see a team that was scared off at 415 signing two DPs for a 670K cap hit. The thing about paying down with allocation certainly changes the situation... but allocation can only be used once. So you could do it Year 1 of a DP's deal but probably wouldn't have enough in Year 2.

ManUtd4ever
04-01-2010, 11:50 AM
I think the point was the league as a whole is not financially sound. However within that single entity are individual entities (three to be precise) that ARE sound. This is a move to reward those successful ones without crippling the rest of the league. It's also a nod to the fans, and will improve the quality of play. I don't see how this is bad or inconsistent in any way. This is MLS saying: We realize Toronto, Seattle and LA are not the same as Columbus, Kansas City, San Jose etc. and we want to do right by Toronto in a way that also is right by Dallas. What's wrong with a bit of self awareness?

Absolutely!

Waggy
04-01-2010, 11:51 AM
Not really, Dalls is allowed to sell out their stadium and make money and maybe they require a Mexican DP to do that???

And how are they going to sell out their stadium if they are consistently getting waxed by players who are on average significantly better but not big names who can draw attendance? Parity needs to be preserved for this league to survive. With teh DP they're saying "Ok, fine, maybe this isn't parity since one team will have 1 or 2 players SIGNIFICANTLY better than everyone else. But, the rest of the players will be equal, and at least the big names will draw attendance which will allow the other teams to also invest in 1 or 2 players significantly better".

Just raising the cap to 10 million wouldn't bring in big players, it'd mean the current 'great' players in MLS (non DP), guys like Dero, would become average or even below average players on rich teams while the poor teams would have someone like that as their best player. It's not fair, nor equal. 1 or 2 great players... I mean upsets can happen. Guys can have a bad day. Toronto can beat LA even though they have Becks and Donovan making crazy money. But if TFC played a Mexican team with a 10 mil salary, we'd get smoked every single time. Each and every player is better than ours.

Super
04-01-2010, 11:56 AM
All the way through the CBA negotiations all we heard about was how the teams were broke and losing money...now they can suddenly have 3 players on each team making an unlimited amount of money?

The DP rule and allocation system is stupid. Make the cap $10,000,000 and get rid of all the crazy rules and sketchy accounting.

Yes, it's beyond stupid. Don't get me wrong, I am happy with the news as it is going to be an improvement to the league, but it makes little sense to have a rule that allows clubs to spend an unlimited amount of money on 3 players, and yet they're stuck with a cap for the rest of the team. So you might see clubs spend 10 million bucks on 3 players, and then 1.5 million on the rest of the team (which will be shit players because you're out of cash). How Mickey Mouse is that?

The salary cap rule is in place to prevent clubs from spending beyond their means, and yet now we'll see massive spending by clubs - but just on a few players. Makes no sense. Get rid of the cap instead so we can have 5-10 million spent on 24 players, instead of on 3.

Steve
04-01-2010, 11:57 AM
So right now, how much does DeRo count against the cap? According to the salaries, he was at 357k base, and 425 guaranteed last year. Does the 425 count, or the 357? If it's the 425, the best thing (for the fans) would be to offer DeRo a DP salary (something in the 600k range) but give him a 1 year DP contract with the understanding he will drop down below DP status next year. That would allow us to save some money under the cap, and hopefully give DeRo a little bonus. After that, MLSE pays for a third DP and brings in a proven worldclass striker. That becomes our team, we rely on Preki to make something almost functional out of our backline, Frei to save us when they collapse, JDG to prevent too much from going through the middle and link the defense to the offense, DeRo to provide the attacking midfield presence, and our new DP striker to pull out some goals when needed. Also, we may need to come to terms with Gerba and buy him out of his contract to get the cap space necessary.

Steve
04-01-2010, 12:00 PM
Yes, it's beyond stupid. Don't get me wrong, I am happy with the news as it is going to be an improvement to the league, but it makes little sense to have a rule that allows clubs to spend an unlimited amount of money on 3 players, and yet they're stuck with a cap for the rest of the team. So you might see clubs spend 10 million bucks on 3 players, and then 1.5 million on the rest of the team (which will be shit players because you're out of cash). How Mickey Mouse is that?

The salary cap rule is in place to prevent clubs from spending beyond their means, and yet now we'll see massive spending by clubs - but just on a few players. Makes no sense. Get rid of the cap instead so we can have 5-10 million spent on 24 players, instead of on 3.

Not quite true. The cap does not prevent clubs from spending beyond their means because clubs don't spend anything on their rosters. The entire amount is paid for by MLS (which collects revenue from all of the clubs). That's the way revenue sharing and single entity work. If they did nothing but up the cap to 10 million, ever club would spend it, because the costs are spread out, so there is no point in not spending to the cap. What you're talking about would require moving the costs to the teams, which would require destroying single entity, which is something the owners are very much not willing to do.

mastermixer
04-01-2010, 12:06 PM
I have a feeling that with the rules MLS puts on stuff like this, we won't be able to get much out of a 2nd and 3rd DP. And even if we could, do you think Mo is capable of finding talented players? He can barely find untalented ones.

Auzzy
04-01-2010, 12:15 PM
Good thing MLSE's fans have more money than God then!

FYP!

Just a reminder where the money for 2nd or 3rd DPs will come from... (EDIT: although I realize it's not a zero sum game. A few better players, better results, more excitement, more playoff games, better TV deals etc. would all help to pull in more cash, w/o necessarily fleecing current SSH's. And the latter will probably happen anyway.)

I'm not sure if TFC will make quick moves under the new cap rule. First of all, they probably don't have a whole bunch of cap space to play with. Also, I think Preki is not in favour of having a small number of star players, and doesn't like rash decisions. I think a summer signing is more likely: as mentioned some European clubs with money problems may be getting rid of decent players w/o demanding lots of transfer cash. That would mean only half the DP cap hit for TFC for this season. Next year most of the bad contracts will be off TFC's books.

Of course, there's a slight chance that Mo knew this was coming, and already has someone up his sleeve, or at least is ready to make some kind of arrangement with DeRo.

BTW, from reading through this whole thread, it seems that a few people haven't read through the full article from MLS. Things are explained fairly well there (although some details are still unclear to me): http://www.mlssoccer.com/content/mls-expands-designated-player-rule (http://www.mlssoccer.com/content/mls-expands-designated-player-rule)

Is it just me, or is this board very slow now? Seems folks are quite excited about this announcment...

JDG
04-01-2010, 12:19 PM
Listening to the press confrence now.

http://www.24thminute.com/

brad
04-01-2010, 12:21 PM
I'm having a hard time figuring out how a team could afford 3 DP's and still buy any half-decent players to fill out the roster.


Easier than you may think.

-Acquire 555k in allocation money (far from impossible to do).
-Pay down the cap hit for each DP from 335k to 150k (this is allowable - in the presser)
-total cap hit for 3 DP's is 450k. That leaves you with a little over 3 million for the rest of your squad. More than enough to build a solid MLS side.

Now imagine a solid, hard working MLS side augmented by 3 designated players in attack...

brad
04-01-2010, 12:24 PM
Is it just me, or is this board very slow now? Seems folks are quite excited about this announcment...

Considering that this is a huge change to the structure of the league, are you surprised at the interest?

This could seriously shift the balance in this league.

barticusz
04-01-2010, 12:24 PM
Although this isn't a perfect system it does allow teams to acquire more talented players. Should the NYRB acquire a player like Henry, or any team for that matter acquire a player with great skill it will only help the league. Having talented players will only attract further talented players.

If things work out and a few teams sign DP's then I'm sure Garber and the MLS will make another rule change to the salary cap.

First it was the DP rule, now it's to have two DP's with a potential for paying for a third. If this works, more rule changes will come. As small of a stepping stone as this is, at least the league is progressing.

Cas87
04-01-2010, 12:26 PM
I don't know if this has been talked about but maybe this is something MO can do:

The Article on the MLS website says the DP rule can be used to sign existing MLS players.
Therefore, sign DeRo to DP money (since he openly said that was one of the problems with JDG coming in last year) and then thats our second
With that DeRo's salary goes from full count on the cap to only counting 335,000 which from what has been thrown around on the boards would open up approximately 80,000 on the cap for us to use along with what is already left.
And finally, with that space under the cap we can sign a CB, and trade Garcia for a draft pick then use that money for a striker

Auzzy
04-01-2010, 12:31 PM
Considering that this is a huge change to the structure of the league, are you surprised at the interest?

This could seriously shift the balance in this league.

Yeah, makes sense. However, there's only 197 active on the forum right now, but it still seems quite slow. The maximum ever was 466.

brad
04-01-2010, 12:34 PM
Although this isn't a perfect system it does allow teams to acquire more talented players. Should the NYRB acquire a player like Henry, or any team for that matter acquire a player with great skill it will only help the league. Having talented players will only attract further talented players.

More interestingly, one DP can only do so much in an MLS caliber team.

Three all of a sudden become a different story. You still need a solid team around them, but imagine the scenario in the release - Henry, Raul and Ronaldinho are able to set up passing triangles, give and go's.

This still smells like a rule change to allow New York to load up their roster (probably with the three players mentioned). MLS are currently missing out big time on the New York market.

JDG
04-01-2010, 12:36 PM
The presser is now done, and the last question clarified one thing when the answer was given.

The hit to the salary cap is $335k, but this is not a hard figure as the $415K hit was under the old rules.
In this new scheme, a team can use allocation money against the cap hit to reduce it to as low as $115K? - that last number may be off, but the point is that allocation money can be used to soften the blow.

JDG
04-01-2010, 12:39 PM
Four four two has already posted their story: http://fourfourtwo.com/news/restoftheworld/51213/default.aspx

drewski
04-01-2010, 12:42 PM
who's up for kidnapping Rooney and brainwashing him so he comes here to be one of our DP's?

ilikemusic
04-01-2010, 12:44 PM
MLSE is going to break the bank for this season!

Sign Wayne Rooney and Rio Ferdinand for one season so we can win the MLS Cup at home! That would be HUGE!

On the real though, this is great for TFC. We should be allowed to flex our financial muscle. We pay big money, we should be able to buy big players.

flatpicker
04-01-2010, 12:46 PM
^ And I don't even see that as total joke.

With the MLS Cup in Toronto this year, MLSE needs to buy BIG this year.
Bring in a marquee striker who can pot some goals for us!

ilikemusic
04-01-2010, 12:52 PM
^ And I don't even see that as total joke.

With the MLS Cup in Toronto this year, MLSE needs to buy BIG this year.
Bring in a marquee striker who can pot some goals for us!

I liked that Robbie Keane rumor (which wasnt even really a rumor). Any Premiership striker would score at will in this league.

We know Robbie's got the summer off! :o

Oldtimer
04-01-2010, 12:54 PM
I cannot believe that Mo didn't know this was coming... the clubs would have been discussing this since at least the last Governors meeting (I think that was in November). I'd be surprised if TFC wasn't one of the clubs pressing for changes to the rule.

Mo is not a great GM, but he knows how to use MLS rules to his advantage, so he's been making roster moves ahead of the announcement to be ready to pounce.

GOL TV (owned by MLSE) said that TFC has $600k in allocation money. Paying down the cap hit would almost certainly allow TFC to acquire 3 DPs.

Almost certainly DeRo will get DP status, as they can now give it to existing MLS players. It will cost MLSE pocket change, and his cap hit will be reduced. It will also help make him happy after being disappointed in not having DP status given to him in the past.

Now with a two-way midfielder as DP (JDG) and an attacking midfielder as DP (DeRo), the addition of a DP striker would give this team considerable firepower.

barticusz
04-01-2010, 12:58 PM
I sure hope a few teams take advantage of this and bring in some quality guys. I'm stoked for the season now. If TFC can bring in a striker as a DP that would be fantastic. However, that still leaves our back end with Garcia.

Luanda
04-01-2010, 01:05 PM
I cannot believe that Mo didn't know this was coming... the clubs would have been discussing this since at least the last Governors meeting (I think that was in November). I'd be surprised if TFC wasn't one of the clubs pressing for changes to the rule.

Mo is not a great GM, but he knows how to use MLS rules to his advantage, so he's been making roster moves ahead of the announcement to be ready to pounce.

If this is true, it puts things (MO bashing) in an altogether different context.

JuliquE
04-01-2010, 01:05 PM
As has been mentioned in past, I just don't see Raul -- legendary RM striker -- teaming up with two prominent former Barça players.. which leads me to think that, among the three, we'll see one here (if not, two).

billyfly
04-01-2010, 01:08 PM
MLSE is going to break the bank for this season!

Sign Wayne Rooney and Rio Ferdinand for one season so we can win the MLS Cup at home! That would be HUGE!

On the real though, this is great for TFC. We should be allowed to flex our financial muscle. We pay big money, we should be able to buy big players.


Exactly. Public schools but let the rich kids wear Ralph Lauren polo shirts.

MartinUtd
04-01-2010, 01:08 PM
If Ronaldinho goes anywhere it'll be to LA. That's my hunch anyway. Either way its exciting news.

swan
04-01-2010, 01:10 PM
So the biggest transfer fee in real terms an MLS team could pay, in a best case scenario, is between $1-2 mil? Why even bother with 3 DP slots if we can't pay a decent transfer fee?

Incidentally, anyone know of a solid list of footballers who'll be out of contract this summer?

Gallas...:D

Super
04-01-2010, 01:17 PM
Not quite true. The cap does not prevent clubs from spending beyond their means because clubs don't spend anything on their rosters. The entire amount is paid for by MLS (which collects revenue from all of the clubs). That's the way revenue sharing and single entity work. If they did nothing but up the cap to 10 million, ever club would spend it, because the costs are spread out, so there is no point in not spending to the cap. What you're talking about would require moving the costs to the teams, which would require destroying single entity, which is something the owners are very much not willing to do.

But the cap does not prevent a club from spending beyond their means on a DP. Blanco is a great example as he earned around 2.5 million - the same as the entire Chicago Fire roster. Now, from what I hear, Chicago is not profitable, so in reality they spent beyond their means. What's to stop them from spending another 5 on another DP? They don't have the money, but there is no rule in place to prevent them from spending well above what they earn - not on the entire squad, but on a SINGLE player. They'll have to borrow money, do some creative accounting, or bring in sponsors to pay the salary for the DP, but regardless of method it would be no different than if they spent 7.5 million on their entire squad. End result is still that they spend beyond their means!

CretanBull
04-01-2010, 01:17 PM
As has been mentioned in past, I just don't see Raul -- legendary RM striker -- teaming up with two prominent former Barça players.. which leads me to think that, among the three, we'll see one here (if not, two).

That's fine, Raul is welcome here :D

Nodoubtguy
04-01-2010, 01:20 PM
As has been mentioned in past, I just don't see Raul -- legendary RM striker -- teaming up with two prominent former Barça players.. which leads me to think that, among the three, we'll see one here (if not, two).

lol....I don't think that will stop them from a career move. How many players have from from Barca to Real or vice-versa?? and has Raul not play with players from Barca on the Spain squad??

Daveisonfire
04-01-2010, 01:23 PM
That's fine, Raul is welcome here :D

32 year old striker, probably lost a step...no thanks!! ;) :p

billyfly
04-01-2010, 01:24 PM
^He won;t come b/c of our FieldTurf.

Mikey
04-01-2010, 01:25 PM
So do you think we could see a change in the MLS where Designated Players are no longer mostly brought in as an attempt to attract "designated fans" from the players previous glory days, but as actual cup winners?

Nodoubtguy
04-01-2010, 01:25 PM
That's fine, Raul is welcome here :D

http://blog.internetnews.com/apatrizio/do-not-want-dog.jpg

Viruk42
04-01-2010, 01:27 PM
based on the old rules (correct me if I am wrong with the salary amounts that counted):

Old rules: 1st DP (415K), 2nd DP ($375K) salary cap $2.32M = 34% of your cap

New rules: 1st DP ($335K), 2nd DP ($335K), 3rd DP ($335K) salary cap $2.55M = 39.4% of your cap


While the above may be true, the new rules are saying 39.4% of the cap for 3 players. If you add the average league salary (which I seem to remember was a bit above 100k) to the old rules, 2 DPs + 1 average player would be around 39% as well.


Obviously 3 players taking up almost 40% of your cap, while the other 20something take up 60% isn't a great system...but if those 3 are good enough, and fit enough, to play every game, the team is not going to have as many issues as one might think.

Beach_Red
04-01-2010, 01:28 PM
I cannot believe that Mo didn't know this was coming... the clubs would have been discussing this since at least the last Governors meeting (I think that was in November). I'd be surprised if TFC wasn't one of the clubs pressing for changes to the rule.

Mo is not a great GM, but he knows how to use MLS rules to his advantage, so he's been making roster moves ahead of the announcement to be ready to pounce.

GOL TV (owned by MLSE) said that TFC has $600k in allocation money. Paying down the cap hit would almost certainly allow TFC to acquire 3 DPs.

Almost certainly DeRo will get DP status, as they can now give it to existing MLS players. It will cost MLSE pocket change, and his cap hit will be reduced. It will also help make him happy after being disappointed in not having DP status given to him in the past.

Now with a two-way midfielder as DP (JDG) and an attacking midfielder as DP (DeRo), the addition of a DP striker would give this team considerable firepower.


Do you think they'll give Mo the approval to go out and spend more money (even "pocket change") when he clearly doesn't have the fans' support? It seemed like one of the main things they wanted from their first DP signing was a long-term contract, not a one-year, rent-a-player deal. Will they really allow him to sign another DP to a long-term deal now?

Most likely if the team makes the playoffs he'll get the go-ahead and if it doesn't, they'll give it to the next guy they hire for the job - though they'll probably want to see him in the position for a year or more, like they did Mo before they allowed him to sign a DP.

CretanBull
04-01-2010, 01:28 PM
http://blog.internetnews.com/apatrizio/do-not-want-dog.jpg


I'm a Barca fan too...but c'mon, Raul in a TFC jersey? It's never gonna happen, but my God would it be great to see!

Nodoubtguy
04-01-2010, 01:31 PM
I'm a Barca fan too...but c'mon, Raul in a TFC jersey? It's never gonna happen, but my God would it be great to see!

If it was really anyone else from that team, I think I could deal with it. But Raul?? oh god, I think I would be physically sick. I hate him....HATE!!! He is Real

ag futbol
04-01-2010, 01:39 PM
Well, parity is officially dead. Or it will be at some point in the near future. If teams like Columbus can't justify keeping an MVP at a DP salary, good luck down the road competing with teams like LA and New York.

Let's hope we get Mo Johnston our of here soon so these spots can actually be filled by someone useful.

brad
04-01-2010, 01:42 PM
As has been mentioned in past, I just don't see Raul -- legendary RM striker -- teaming up with two prominent former Barça players.. which leads me to think that, among the three, we'll see one here (if not, two).

He teamed up with prominent former Barca player Figo without issue.

drewski
04-01-2010, 01:49 PM
He teamed up with prominent former Barca player Figo without issue.


and in general these days, there's so much player movement, these guys know its a business when it comes to moving between teams. I doubt anybody really cares who played where before. Like somebody else pointed out, these guys play together on national teams too so I doubt there is any serious hate based solely on club teams

JuliquE
04-01-2010, 01:53 PM
lol....I don't think that will stop them from a career move. How many players have from from Barca to Real or vice-versa?? and has Raul not play with players from Barca on the Spain squad??
Fair point, especially with it being outside of LaLiga.

I suppose the fact he holds all their records weighed heavily on my comment, but you're probably right (especially the part where you lol'd, jackass). :dita:

Still.. Raul -- GRRRR!!~

CretanBull
04-01-2010, 02:18 PM
If it was really anyone else from that team, I think I could deal with it. But Raul?? oh god, I think I would be physically sick. I hate him....HATE!!! He is Real

I understand...I'm a Barca fan, but they aren't the team that I take to heart. If TFC signed a Man U player I'd be pissed.

Oldtimer
04-01-2010, 02:25 PM
I understand...I'm a Barca fan, but they aren't the team that I take to heart. If TFC signed a Man U player I'd be pissed.

You gotta be kidding. I'd take anyone from any major club's "B" squad, let alone "A" squad, provided they were a striker.

CretanBull
04-01-2010, 02:38 PM
Old hate dies hard :o

I could get behind anyone in a TFC uniform (I guess), but when the Alan Smith rumours were flying around a couple of years ago...that's something that I couldn't handle.

Darlofletch
04-01-2010, 02:41 PM
Old hate dies hard :o.

No monkey hangers!

CretanBull
04-01-2010, 02:45 PM
No monkey hangers!

Don't worry, if you're from Hartlepool you never leave. You're not allowed out :D

kitchener-TFC
04-01-2010, 03:06 PM
Get'r done MLSE! We're hosting the cup this year, sign a striker. Please!

bgnewf
04-01-2010, 03:08 PM
Well, parity is officially dead. Or it will be at some point in the near future. If teams like Columbus can't justify keeping an MVP at a DP salary, good luck down the road competing with teams like LA and New York.

Let's hope we get Mo Johnston our of here soon so these spots can actually be filled by someone useful.

With due respect I could not disagree more.

If parity was truly going the way of the dinosaur in this league then two things would have not been part of the announcement today:

1) Not a cent of DP salary counts against the cap. Signing two DP's is going to be an extremely risky exercise when it comes to depth and cap management. Visions of Thierry Henry playing with Adam Braz come to mind.

2) If you sign a third DP you do not have to pay a luxury tax to teams not using DP's that they get as allocation dollars to strengthen their rosters.

Why in the hell should a Kansas City get a benefit from a Seattle if the Sounders for example want to being in another DP or two? How in the hell is that fair to Seattle and most importantly Seattle fans who pack their ground???

rocker
04-01-2010, 03:16 PM
How in the hell is that fair to Seattle and most importantly Seattle fans who pack their ground???

Seems fair to me... they get more DPs, but they have to pay a little for the privilege. It`s like real life and having to pay taxes for stuff you don`t use but other people use.

Plus, it`s really not that much of a price to pay for a third DP. They are rich enough to afford $250,000.

Beach_Red
04-01-2010, 03:19 PM
With due respect I could not disagree more.

If parity was truly going the way of the dinosaur in this league then two things would have not been part of the announcement today:

1) Not a cent of DP salary counts against the cap. Signing two DP's is going to be an extremely risky exercise when it comes to depth and cap management. Visions of Thierry Henry playing with Adam Braz come to mind.

2) If you sign a third DP you do not have to pay a luxury tax to teams not using DP's that they get as allocation dollars to strengthen their rosters.

Why in the hell should a Kansas City get a benefit from a Seattle if the Sounders for example want to being in another DP or two? How in the hell is that fair to Seattle and most importantly Seattle fans who pack their ground???


It's going to create a bigger gap between teams - or really, increase the gap that already exists.

As you say, an Henri playing with a team of Braz-like guys is a possibility, but what will really happen is that filling out the roster will become even more important than before. So the teams that invest more in infrastructure and coaching and scouting and in all the parts of the team not covered by the cap will do much better.

New York will rely on the other teams owned by the same company for deeper scouting reports than a team like TFC will ever get to see and do much better filling out the roster.

Parity isn't completely gone, of course, but the gap will increase and guess which side of the divide we'll be on.

ArmenJBX
04-01-2010, 03:21 PM
I'm hoping that TFC signs one striker and one center back

If we could have one of Alessandro Del Piero/Ronaldo/Raul/Van Nistelrooy, and Puyol/Nesta/Lucio/Demichelis that would be awesome.

gtaguy
04-01-2010, 03:26 PM
Seems fair to me... they get more DPs, but they have to pay a little for the privilege. It`s like real life and having to pay taxes for stuff you don`t use but other people use.

Plus, it`s really not that much of a price to pay for a third DP. They are rich enough to afford $250,000.

In the end if we get a 2nd and maybe even a 3rd DP guess where some of the money is coming from .. HIGHER SEASON TICKET PRICES EVERY YEAR FROM NOW ON.

CretanBull
04-01-2010, 04:03 PM
^ DeRo automatically becomes our 2nd DP...so if we sign anyone, it will be our 3rd.

flatpicker
04-01-2010, 04:04 PM
^ And it needs to be a kick ass striker!

ag futbol
04-01-2010, 04:48 PM
In the end if we get a 2nd and maybe even a 3rd DP guess where some of the money is coming from .. HIGHER SEASON TICKET PRICES EVERY YEAR FROM NOW ON.
And the difference between that and the past three years is....

TERSIGNI
04-01-2010, 05:07 PM
Do i get this right; DeGuzman takes 415-thousand of our cap. Is it now reduced to the new level and what if players are already making more than the new cap amount, are they considered designated players?

gtaguy
04-01-2010, 05:13 PM
And the difference between that and the past three years is....

A bigger increase in seasons tix thats all.. I guess as consolation we would atleast know what the price hikes are for

boban
04-01-2010, 08:02 PM
^ DeRo automatically becomes our 2nd DP...so if we sign anyone, it will be our 3rd.
Where do you get this from?

mmmikey
04-01-2010, 08:24 PM
I have yet to see it stated that the max salary for non dp players has changed. Only the cap hit of a dp.. If we assume de ro will be dp so he doesn't throw a fit fine.. But I don't believe he becomes an auto DP

profit89
04-01-2010, 09:11 PM
Why in the hell should a Kansas City get a benefit from a Seattle if the Sounders for example want to being in another DP or two? How in the hell is that fair to Seattle and most importantly Seattle fans who pack their ground???

^This!

Auzzy
04-01-2010, 09:39 PM
DeRo does not automatically become anything. There are many players in MLS who are between the new DP cap hit of $335k, and the max non-DP salary of $400+. If they stay below the max for non-DP, nothing will change for those players. The non-DP salary max has not changed (it may have gone up a few %, but I'm not sure).

Only if they want to sign a new (much higher) contract for DeRo, could he potentially become a 2nd DP. A similar questions was asked in the MLS news conference which was streamed via 24thminute.com today. If an MLS player's contract has expired, and he is re-signed at a salary SIGNIFICANTLY higher than $400k, then he could become a DP for the club. Changing an existing player to a DP w/o significantly increasing his salary (i.e., just to lower his cap hit), is not the point of the DP rule, would have to be reviewed, and (in my impression) may not be approved. MLS wants to use the DP slots to sign new players, or retain players (that could earn much more elsewhere), rather than re-classifying existing players w/o changing their salary much. And if they are only a little over the non-DP max, then a team would usually use allocation money to bring the salary down to the max -- that was specifically mentioned by the MLS representative.

For DeRo it's a special case because he's already on a guaranteed contract. His existing contract would have to be cancelled, and a new, much higher contract signed, to possibly make him the 2nd DP. That would also have to be approved by the league -- no idea if they would like that.

Alonso
04-02-2010, 12:11 AM
Do i get this right; DeGuzman takes 415-thousand of our cap. Is it now reduced to the new level and what if players are already making more than the new cap amount, are they considered designated players?


...No.

Alonso
04-02-2010, 12:13 AM
Where do you get this from?

He doesn't

CretanBull
04-02-2010, 12:25 AM
Where do you get this from?

I didn't mean that he becomes our 2nd DP as per the rules, only that its something that the team must do to get us some cap space. There's no way to sign a 2nd DP now (no cap space) but making DeRo our 2nd DP we'll gain enough space (using allocation money as well) to sign a 3rd DP.

boban
04-02-2010, 09:42 AM
I didn't mean that he becomes our 2nd DP as per the rules, only that its something that the team must do to get us some cap space. There's no way to sign a 2nd DP now (no cap space) but making DeRo our 2nd DP we'll gain enough space (using allocation money as well) to sign a 3rd DP.
yes there is.
You get rid of other players.

dantdot
04-02-2010, 04:12 PM
http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2010/04/02/13449461.html


TFC director of soccer Mo Johnston said the new provision “doesn’t change anything” for his club, and added that though it will eventually add star power to the league, he doesn’t expect other teams to be too active until the summer because, “budgets are tight.”
“DeRo’s under guaranteed contract ($425,750 last season), (this) doesn’t change much,” Johnston said. “He was happy signing his contract.”

billyfly
04-02-2010, 04:19 PM
"other teams to be too active until the summer because, “budgets are tight.” What about a specific team located in Southern Ontario off the lake, Mo?

dantdot
04-02-2010, 04:22 PM
"Even if Johnston did change his mind, without major salary slicing, TFC would not be able to add another DP this season alongside Julian de Guzman, since it is unable to take on the $335,000 cap hit."

There you go.

billyfly
04-02-2010, 04:28 PM
So we be screwed.

Super
04-02-2010, 05:30 PM
Mo fucked us over by spending too much last year. Our squad is the smallest in the league, and we have no more money to spend - and this without a real, competent striker. Seriously? Why is Mo still at the head of this club?

Batman
04-02-2010, 06:20 PM
http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2010/04/02/13449461.html

Wow. Mo sure knows how to take the wind out of our sails, doesn't he. :picard:

BTW, if we buy out Gerba, are we off the hook for his part of the cap?

wzhxvy
04-02-2010, 06:36 PM
What can one say that has not been said...I just get angry when that man speaks.

dantdot
04-02-2010, 06:37 PM
Who knows, maybe Frei is sold this year which could help pay down the DP hit with allocation but yeah, using all that allocation money last year leaves us basically screwed, nice job Mo.

profit89
04-02-2010, 06:49 PM
DeRo does not automatically become anything. There are many players in MLS who are between the new DP cap hit of $335k, and the max non-DP salary of $400+. If they stay below the max for non-DP, nothing will change for those players. The non-DP salary max has not changed (it may have gone up a few %, but I'm not sure).

Correct!

CretanBull
04-02-2010, 06:51 PM
yes there is.
You get rid of other players.

Our roster is too small to do that...we can drop an expensive-ish player to add two cheaper guys for the sake of depth, but we're clearly not in position to drop one - add one.

SteeltownBhoy
04-03-2010, 06:48 AM
So we obviously we have no MO money and no allocation.

On the bright side we are now trialing CSL players to help fill out the squad!

We need to send Judas back to Scotland.

Mikey
04-03-2010, 07:26 AM
Money or not, previous experience indicates that the additional DP carrot will be held back until renewal time in September when the rumours will be used to try to sway people coming to their senses into accepting another 15% price hike. The fear that if you don't renew, the team might bring in a decent DP and start winning games. The twist of course is that until a major drop in renewals comes along, there is no pressure to do anything involving a 2nd DP.

Oh Crap! Stop renewing your tickets....You're holding back the club!! :rolleyes:

jazzy
04-03-2010, 07:37 AM
Money or not, previous experience indicates that the additional DP carrot will be held back until renewal time in September when the rumours will be used to try to sway people coming to their senses into accepting another 15% price hike. The fear that if you don't renew, the team might bring in a decent DP and start winning games. The twist of course is that until a major drop in renewals comes along, there is no pressure to do anything involving a 2nd DP.

Oh Crap! Stop renewing your tickets....You're holding back the club!! :rolleyes:

this is toronto remember, going on 43 years with mediocrity from the leafs, and those fairy tales....

DichioTFC
04-05-2010, 09:56 PM
For those thinking / hoping DeRo becomes a DP, he was never made a DP in his prime with Houston. Why would he now that he's aging and nearing his twilight? This isn't a regular workplace where you make more money for longer tenures.

The amount that DeRo is making is just fine and it should be good for the next 3-4 years. Asking for more doesn't do favours to either side (DeRo becomes our Vince Carter, a saviour who will probably fail to live up to our even higher expectations of him / team; MLSE has too much money invested in a depreciating asset)

Blowing Bubbles
04-05-2010, 10:02 PM
Who knows, maybe Frei is sold this year which could help pay down the DP hit with allocation but yeah, using all that allocation money last year leaves us basically screwed, nice job Mo.

He MUST be sold now.

With the ability to use allocation money to buy down a DP cap hit to $150,000 I would argue that allocation money is even more powerful than cap space.

Certainly Frei has way more value to the team as a way of generating $500,000 in allocation money than in playing goal. He can be replaced for a fraction of the allocation money with the rest going to buy down cap hits for DP's.

A real forward thinking GM would be one that sets up a framework of how to continuously churn out allocation $.

Whoop
04-05-2010, 10:51 PM
What would you get for Frei, other than a first round pick?

And who wants to buy him?

KezmanCCCC
04-05-2010, 11:00 PM
Ian Hume scored 2 goals today for barnsley... maybe we should sign him....

Ossington Mental Youth
04-05-2010, 11:29 PM
For those thinking / hoping DeRo becomes a DP, he was never made a DP in his prime with Houston. Why would he now that he's aging and nearing his twilight? This isn't a regular workplace where you make more money for longer tenures.

The amount that DeRo is making is just fine and it should be good for the next 3-4 years. Asking for more doesn't do favours to either side (DeRo becomes our Vince Carter, a saviour who will probably fail to live up to our even higher expectations of him / team; MLSE has too much money invested in a depreciating asset)

at this point itd be about freeing up cap space to purchase more players or another (hopefully impact dp), but not making DeRo a DP we are swallowing a 115k which could be used otherwise, especially now

Ossington Mental Youth
04-06-2010, 08:29 AM
alot of salaries have been paid off by allocations, the majority of which have expired, so i hate to say it, it is as bad as we think, it was relieved quite a bit by Gerba leaving. Side note i really dont see Mo signing us a 1.5 million dollar striker anytime soon, god id love to be wrong.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-06-2010, 08:49 AM
good point on the midseason bit, still dont think we have that much, i suspect we are somewhere in the 400k-500k range when things are all said and done judging by what few numbers we have seen

backbeat
04-06-2010, 09:20 AM
also if Frei goes this summer Mo would use that money to reduce the hit on his DP freeing up cap space

mastermixer
04-06-2010, 09:40 AM
I could be wrong, but didn't they use the allocation money for grass last year??

Pachuco
04-06-2010, 09:43 AM
alot of salaries have been paid off by allocations, the majority of which have expired, so i hate to say it, it is as bad as we think, it was relieved quite a bit by Gerba leaving. Side note i really dont see Mo signing us a 1.5 million dollar striker anytime soon, god id love to be wrong.

You can't say alot of salaries have been paid off by allocation because you can only pay up to 50% of a player's salary using allocation money. That tells you right there that we are atleast freeing up 50% of each released player's salary. Havind said that, we have no idea how much allocation has been used for players that are still on the squad, meaning there is no way you could take an educated estimate at home much space Mo has to play with.

rocker
04-06-2010, 09:46 AM
I could be wrong, but didn't they use the allocation money for grass last year??

no... from the Edu transfer, they got lots of $$$. MLS took a portion of that (20%? I forget the # exactly) and designated it for salary allocation purposes for use by TFC. Then they got a cut. Then the rest went into a reserve that TFC could use for team improvement projects. That amount was used apparently for grass.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-06-2010, 10:04 AM
You can't say alot of salaries have been paid off by allocation because you can only pay up to 50% of a player's salary using allocation money. That tells you right there that we are atleast freeing up 50% of each released player's salary. Havind said that, we have no idea how much allocation has been used for players that are still on the squad, meaning there is no way you could take an educated estimate at home much space Mo has to play with.

Im not going to bother this because a) youre right to a certain extent and b) im not that invested into this argument, i will however mention a few things

youre correct in saying its all vague and its been suggested by several good sources (if im not mistaken) that a major allocation is in between 1-300k.

we can also look here http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=4655 for some estimations, we also know that theres an expiry date on those. We know Mo has over paid players in the past for a fact and we know that hes used allocations to do so, it doesnt seem so unusual that we'd be screwed now because of this.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-06-2010, 10:08 AM
also im still failing to understand why signing DeRo as a DP would be a bad idea at this point, we definitely can afford to pay him more, it frees up cash and as i said all signs suggest that we dont have the money to sign 2 more DPs (1 maybe but not two)

Pachuco
04-06-2010, 10:35 AM
Am I one of the only ones that thinks Dero actually deserves DP money? I mean, if you take a look at the DPs around the league, there aren't many that I would take over Dero. In fact, there isn't a single one. I think it's time the league promoted someone who is actually worth the money.

profit89
04-06-2010, 10:45 AM
I think making Dero a DP would be a short term decision. The immediate benefit is opening up $90K in salary cap space by my calculation (Dero's salary of $425 minus $335 cap hit for DP). That is helpful but not a huge amount. However the cost is tying up a DP slot for the remainder of Dero's contract which is 3 years. If we use Dero for the 2nd spot we then have to pay $250K to access the third. I believe it is in the club's interest to use both these spaces for high impact players, even if we have to wait until next year to sign the second. Think of it this way, if you sign a $1 million player as a DP, you are getting a $665K in excess player value over the cap hit for free. If you use Dero you get a $425K player or $90 in excess player value. I think it makes competitive sense to use these spots on higher value players. Dero is a great player, not arguing that, but he's already under contract. TFC is one of two profitable clubs in MLS and in good position to take advantage of this rule change.

Totally agree.

Lucky Strike
04-06-2010, 11:07 AM
I think making Dero a DP would be a short term decision. The immediate benefit is opening up $90K in salary cap space by my calculation (Dero's salary of $425 minus $335 cap hit for DP). That is helpful but not a huge amount. However the cost is tying up a DP slot for the remainder of Dero's contract which is 3 years. If we use Dero for the 2nd spot we then have to pay $250K to access the third. I believe it is in the club's interest to use both these spaces for high impact players, even if we have to wait until next year to sign the second. Think of it this way, if you sign a $1 million player as a DP, you are getting a $665K in excess player value over the cap hit for free. If you use Dero you get a $425K player or $90 in excess player value. I think it makes competitive sense to use these spots on higher value players. Dero is a great player, not arguing that, but he's already under contract. TFC is one of two profitable clubs in MLS and in good position to take advantage of this rule change.

Well said. Making DeRo a DP should be considered Plan B by the team. If they can't find anyone for the 2nd DP slot, use it on DeRo to lessen his cap hit and use the extra 90K to sign a serviceable player in an area that is identified as needing improvement.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-06-2010, 01:35 PM
Am I one of the only ones that thinks Dero actually deserves DP money? I mean, if you take a look at the DPs around the league, there aren't many that I would take over Dero. In fact, there isn't a single one. I think it's time the league promoted someone who is actually worth the money.

nah im with you as well, i dont see any down sides to signing him as a dp, especially with the tight financial squeeze

onemanbarmyarmy
04-06-2010, 05:59 PM
Well said. Making DeRo a DP should be considered Plan B by the team. If they can't find anyone for the 2nd DP slot, use it on DeRo to lessen his cap hit and use the extra 90K to sign a serviceable player in an area that is identified as needing improvement.

Yes plan "B" or maybe "G".

Dirk Diggler
04-06-2010, 06:10 PM
Am I one of the only ones that thinks Dero actually deserves DP money? I mean, if you take a look at the DPs around the league, there aren't many that I would take over Dero. In fact, there isn't a single one. I think it's time the league promoted someone who is actually worth the money.

Are you serious? No arguing that Dero is a top player but there are also a lot of players in the league who are better than Dero, yet are not getting DP money at the moment. I think what Dero is getting at the money is fair market value for him. The only reason this is being discussed is that we have someone like Julian DeGuzman making so much more than him while being the DP when it is debatable as to which one of them is more valuable.

Pachuco
04-06-2010, 10:00 PM
Yeap, entirely serious in case you were wondering. You think there are ALOT of players better then Dero in the league. I think there are only a few. But I don't care what other teams do or don't do with their DPs. I'm just talking about Dero. Put it this way, would you lose Dero over not giving him DP status? fuck that. How many DPs in this league have turned out to be better then Dero? A couple. How many DPs have turned out to be busts? more then a couple.

profit89
04-07-2010, 11:35 AM
With all due respect to DeRo, I would save the DP for a high impact player.