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jloome
03-14-2010, 11:41 AM
It's in news but deserves its own thread:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/jasondevos/2010/03/carl-robinson-reveals-reason-for-toronto-fc-departure.html

So basically, regardless of whether it was tactically the right decision, the club acted like spineless cowards and blamed the move on him. Plus, our new coach lied about it, publicly.

Eek. What a shit show.

koryo
03-14-2010, 11:43 AM
Posted in Today's News thread as well.

Pigfynn
03-14-2010, 11:46 AM
This is really the only part of the article that isn't DeVos' opinion of Carl and the part that really matters, his words:



"I would like to make something clear. Back in November, I was told by the club that I was not part of their plans, that I was not the type of player they wanted - that I was too old - and that they would try and ship me out. As a player, when your club tells you that, it becomes very hard to concentrate on moving forward with your club.

"I loved my time in Toronto, my family loved it, and I developed a wonderful rapport with the fans. In fact, I had my heart set on ending my career in Toronto. Unfortunately in football, things don't always work out the way you plan. Now, I am focusing all of my energy on the next phase of my career, which is in New York."

-Robbo

James17930
03-14-2010, 11:51 AM
God, I the want the season to just START ALREADY so we can stop talking about this.

And I don't mean that out of disrespect to Carl -- it's just that a few months from now this is going to be a non-story and I just wish we were at that point.

Super Cereal
03-14-2010, 11:59 AM
Christ, could this off-season be any more of a shit show?

Beach_Red
03-14-2010, 12:01 PM
"I would like to make something clear. Back in November, I was told by the club that I was not part of their plans, that I was not the type of player they wanted - that I was too old - and that they would try and ship me out."

So, what else happened at TFC in November?

Oldtimer
03-14-2010, 12:02 PM
What a "classy" way to let him go.

MO MUST GO.

ag futbol
03-14-2010, 12:08 PM
Well, I have no problem with them telling him in November that he wasn`t in the future plans. But it does make Johnston look like a complete idiot considering he just extended his contract recently before that.

The best thing to do here was to ship him out and just say the team was at a junction where Robinson wasn`t part of the future, thank him for his service, end. Obviously no statement can really be released before he`s traded because that might hurt TFC`s ability to deal.

As was said, the communication thing is what makes this team look so amateur. Just say you`ve let Serioux go and Robinson`s traded because you don`t want him to be part of the team going forward.

Parkdale
03-14-2010, 12:11 PM
sadly, this isn't really a surprise. We suspected it happened like this all along.

I think the saddest part about this whole thing isn't just the treatment of
one of our players, but the overall style of 'management' currently being used
by the people running our club. It's tragic but it seems that the very Canadian
virtues we all hold so dear (honestly, teamwork, dedication to your peers, integrity)
are no longer present in Toronto FC's management. And it's not like they sold our
their morals to put together a winner.... they've sold their soul for nothing!


it's a crying shame. Our clubs reputation is in the hands of dirty, dishonest weasels.
(sorry, that's disrespectful to the rodents.)

Our team is becoming an embarrassment, and I now truly believe that the legacy
and reputation Mo is creating for our club will hurt us for YEARS down the road.
The well has been poisoned.

Pigfynn
03-14-2010, 12:12 PM
Well, I have no problem with them telling him in November that he wasn`t in the future plans. But it does make Johnston look like a complete idiot considering he just extended his contract recently before that.

The best thing to do here was to ship him out and just say the team was at a junction where Robinson wasn`t part of the future, thank him for his service, end. Obviously no statement can really be released before he`s traded because that might hurt TFC`s ability to deal.

As was said, the communication thing is what makes this team look so amateur. Just say you`ve let Serioux go and Robinson`s traded because you don`t want him to be part of the team going forward.

You mean instead of blaming them and saying they wanted out? hahaha what a complete and total bullshit way to do things. TFC, GET YOUR FUCKING SHIT TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beach_Red
03-14-2010, 12:16 PM
sadly, this isn't really a surprise. We suspected it happened like this all along.

I think the saddest part about this whole thing isn't just the treatment of
one of our players, but the overall style of 'management' currently being used
by the people running our club. It's tragic but it seems that the very Canadian
virtues we all hold so dear (honestly, teamwork, dedication to your peers, integrity)
are no longer present in Toronto FC's management. And it's not like they sold our
their morals to put together a winner.... they've sold their soul for nothing!

it's a crying shame.

Our team is becoming an embarrassment, and I now truly believe that the legacy
and reputation Mo is creating for our club will hurt us for YEARS down the road.
The well has been poisoned.


Yes, that's exactly it. Of course, it's no surprise in this city, we're used to it.

We should start doing what the Man U fans are doing with Glazer - we need new owners, too.

Corpand
03-14-2010, 12:17 PM
As I told you guys a month ago, what they were doing to Robbo was fucking horrendous. I'm surprised this team still has players who want to play for it...

I'm just glad its finally over and we can talk about this. Robbo's situation has been going on for a whiiiile. His family is not short of being pissed too.

Pigfynn
03-14-2010, 12:20 PM
It makes you wonder if players that check these boards are sitting quietly at their keyboards saying to themselves " Yes! that's it guys keep going, push Mo out he's the problem!" but can't add their support to the cause beacuse they need the money lol

ag futbol
03-14-2010, 12:21 PM
You mean instead of blaming them and saying they wanted out? hahaha what a complete and total bullshit way to do things. TFC, GET YOUR FUCKING SHIT TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don`t worry they`ll just deny they ever said that despite some mumbling club official being quoted directly in an article on TFC TV saying the opposite.

James17930
03-14-2010, 12:23 PM
sadly, this isn't really a surprise. We suspected it happened like this all along.

I think the saddest part about this whole thing isn't just the treatment of
one of our players, but the overall style of 'management' currently being used
by the people running our club. It's tragic but it seems that the very Canadian
virtues we all hold so dear (honestly, teamwork, dedication to your peers, integrity)
are no longer present in Toronto FC's management. And it's not like they sold our
their morals to put together a winner.... they've sold their soul for nothing!


it's a crying shame. Our clubs reputation is in the hands of dirty, dishonest weasels.
(sorry, that's disrespectful to the rodents.)

Our team is becoming an embarrassment, and I now truly believe that the legacy
and reputation Mo is creating for our club will hurt us for YEARS down the road.
The well has been poisoned.

I have to respectfully disagree a little bit.

I don't think it's really as bad as all that. Plus, I believe that any bad rep. there is will leave when Mo does.

People around the league still want to come play at TFC just because of the fans and the amenities the club provides -- watch the Ty Harden interview where it's obvious how happy he was to be traded here.

Yes, how things went down with Carl are lamentable, but I really think we're all (media included) focusing way too much time and energy on it, simply because there's nothing really else to talk about right now.

Carl Robinson was not going to help us win this year -- he was either going to be there when we lost or contribute to our losing.

So once the season starts and we can either be happy about winning or dissect how badly we're losing, this whole Robbo story is basically going to fade away, because, as nice a guy as he is, he just really wasn't a part of the on-the-field plans any more.

Parkdale
03-14-2010, 12:27 PM
but as it stands, our reputation has a permanent black eye from Mo, and I'm not sure what will clear that away. Obviously it can change in time, but the longer we keep that guy on our team, the longer it will take to wash away his stench. Carl's future with the team isn't a relevant part of the argument - his position is now filled, but the handling of the whole thing is disgraceful. And it seems pretty clear in hindsight that Dichio was headed for the same fate.

Unfortunately, Mo's reputation is OUR reputation - because we've never had a team without him. (and let's be dead honest here, his reputation was beyond bad before he even came here)

ag futbol
03-14-2010, 12:31 PM
What you`re talking about there is another debate entirely. I don`t think Harden would have gone on TFC TV and said ``well i wanted to play pro-soccer and don`t really have much choice in the matter, here i am``. The question is really a formality and not an opportunity for him to give an honest opinion.

There are two major problems here: none of them have to do with Robinson`s on field performance (good or bad). It`s more like we treat our players like shit and we shuffle parts continuously without getting any better (ie we have no vision).

John Ellinger = Fernando Clavijo = Mo Johnston

Parkdale
03-14-2010, 12:35 PM
There are two major problems here: none of them have to do with Robinson`s on field performance (good or bad). It`s more like we treat our players like shit and we shuffle parts continuously without getting any better.

exactly.

and like the article originally said, there are many positives about Robbo that aren't easily conveyed in the stat sheet. He's just not that kind of player. He'll be the first person to admit he's not playing a glamorous position, and his job isn't to score goals - but none of that matters. He was a leader of men, and a person who earned fair treatment from the team, but didn't get it. It seems like no one gets fair treatment.


I wonder what numbers we need before we can 'Sam Mitchell' Mo out of town?

James17930
03-14-2010, 12:36 PM
but as it stands, our reputation has a permanent black eye from Mo, and I'm not sure what will clear that away.

Winning.

If we win, no one will care.

The question is, how likely is that to happen . . .


What you`re talking about there is another debate entirely. I don`t think Harden would have gone on TFC TV and said ``well i wanted to play pro-soccer and don`t really have much choice in the matter, here i am``


No, he wouldn't have, but he did appear to be genuinely grateful to be here (I mean, maybe that was just my interpretation -- you can go back and watch the interview and see for yourself).

If he was ambivalent he probably just would have given a stock answer.

koryo
03-14-2010, 12:37 PM
People around the league still want to come play at TFC just because of the fans and the amenities the club provides -- watch the Ty Harden interview where it's obvious how happy he was to be traded here.


We aren't the only well-supported club in the league, so I don't buy that for a minute.



Yes, how things went down with Carl are lamentable, but I really think we're all (media included) focusing way too much time and energy on it, simply because there's nothing really else to talk about right now.


The media has suggested, time and again, that it's not that Robbo is gone. It's how the organization treated him. Symptom of a larger problem.



Carl Robinson was not going to help us win this year -- he was either going to be there when we lost or contribute to our losing.


See above.



So once the season starts and we can either be happy about winning or dissect how badly we're losing, this whole Robbo story is basically going to fade away, because, as nice a guy as he is, he just really wasn't a part of the on-the-field plans any more.

You're missing the point. Once the season starts, anything we discuss will be a symptom of the cancer in the organization, which is also the cause of the Robbo/Serioux incidents, Dichio, the fact that we're on the eve of year 4 with a team that simply cannot compete.

Beach_Red
03-14-2010, 12:38 PM
but as it stands, our reputation has a permanent black eye from Mo, and I'm not sure what will clear that away. Obviously it can change in time, but the longer we keep that guy on our team, the longer it will take to wash away his stench. Carl's future with the team isn't a relevant part of the argument - his position is now filled, but the handling of the whole thing is disgraceful. And it seems pretty clear in hindsight that Dichio was headed for the same fate.

Unfortunately, Mo's reputation is OUR reputation - because we've never had a team without him. (and let's be dead honest here, his reputation was beyond bad before he even came here)

It's funny, we're having this exact same debate on some TV writer blogs I follow. Is Ivan Fecan the problem with CTV and the fact it makes crappy shows or is it higher up with the shareholders and BellGlobeMedia? CTV, like MLSE is very profitable, but its products aren't very good.

In sports and TV you'll always have more people wanting to do the job than there are jobs so players will still come to TFC the same way actors and directors will still work on Canadian shows. There will be bad GMs just like there are bad showrunners and they make easy scapegoats but it nothing ever changes where it would really make a difference.

Parkdale
03-14-2010, 12:39 PM
Winning.

If we win, no one will care.


fans wont care.

supporters will remember, but we'll be happy to win.

potential signings (and their agents) will remember. They won't be playing here if they know it's a minefield.

James17930
03-14-2010, 12:39 PM
I don't think I'm missing the point, I just don't think it's quite a the 'cancer' that everyone else is making it out to be.

Maybe just an ulcer, or something.

Painful, but treatable.

djking2
03-14-2010, 12:39 PM
Sorry but i have a hard time feeling robbo is so hard done by, making 300G for playing a game he loves. I'm disappointed too to lose one of our originals, but the writing was on the wall from the minute we hired JDG, he knew it (he said so on the Score Footy show in Auygust or somethi9ng last year), the media knew it, we knew it and so did management. I can't see how making a significant move to improve the clubs talent level is such a black mark.

Preki inherited the situation and was honest and straightforward about it. It was a cap issue and Robbo knew it and choose to prepare for it. It's business and Mo's screw up was probably just signing him for 300G in the first place.

dupont
03-14-2010, 12:40 PM
The worst part about this is they say he wasn't part of the plans but what plans are those? This team looks poor in pre-season and barely anyone new came in. Maybe I'll end up eating these words later if TFC does well this year but as it is right now it looks like they just let a bunch of players go and brought no one substantial in as part of some non-existent plan.

James17930
03-14-2010, 12:42 PM
fans wont care.

supporters will remember, but we'll be happy to win.

potential signings (and their agents) will remember. They won't be playing here if they know it's a minefield.

I'd be curious to know two things:

1. How much of this actually comes because of the league's rules and mandates, and not TFC; and

2. How does TFC's behaviour compare with that of other MLS clubs? Is it actually all that different or are we just assuming?

jloome
03-14-2010, 12:42 PM
Winning.

If we win, no one will care.

The question is, how likely is that to happen . . .



No, he wouldn't have, but he did appear to be genuinely grateful to be here (I mean, maybe that was just my interpretation -- you can go back and watch the interview and see for yourself).

If he was ambivalent he probably just would have given a stock answer.

With respect, that kind of approach to systemic issues in a team"s management -- looking at the immediate outcome of one part of an incident and delcaring it done -- is really damaging in the long run.

As Devos pointed out, Robinson was a locker room leader. Management has effectively told the players, "look, you're not only just commodities, you're going to wear it publicly when we get rid of you."

Do you not think something that damaging to morale, and yet that unnecessary, is indicative of larger problems that need addressing? So what good, exactly, would shutting up about it do?

It's a longstanding tradition at successfull football clubs -- which rely on supporters groups to remain so -- for fans to voice their displeasure when ongoing management issues are undermining the club. If people want to see this kind of "management by character assassination" continue, fine, be a sheep. Otherwise, speak up.

Parkdale
03-14-2010, 12:44 PM
Is Ivan Fecan the problem with CTV and the fact it makes crappy shows or is it higher up with the shareholders and BellGlobeMedia? CTV, like MLSE is very profitable, but its products aren't very good.


think that 15 years ago, Izzy Asper could have seen what was in store for Canwest?


Mo Johnson is the 'Joseph Hazelwood' of Toronto FC. Look it up if you don't know the reference (but I'm betting you do)

Beach_Red
03-14-2010, 12:46 PM
fans wont care.

supporters will remember, but we'll be happy to win.

potential signings (and their agents) will remember. They won't be playing here if they know it's a minefield.

Yes, but what happened will make agents like TFC more.

Blazer
03-14-2010, 12:48 PM
What a "classy" way to let him go.

MO MUST GO.


I don’t understand.

If Carl is telling the truth (and why wouldn’t he?!) about what he was told, what more do you want the organization to say to him? I think they did the admirable thing in offering him the truth instead of leading him on to believe that he was more valuable than he really is?! Or worse, making him believe that he was part of their plan?! I dunno. I think we’re overreacting because he was a fan favourite.

Maybe I’m missing something?!

Nuvinho
03-14-2010, 12:49 PM
Winning makes everyone happy.

drewski
03-14-2010, 12:49 PM
We should start doing what the Man U fans are doing with Glazer - we need new owners, too.


for once I won't blame MLSE. In the past they've micromanaged all the teams which is not the right way to run the club. But as they've done with the leafs and raps, they've done what they should and given management control and let them succeed or fail on their own.

Then there is also the money and power factor. Sad as it is, with the sport and league still growing, MLSE is one of the strongest entities out there and we need that to get things done.

James17930
03-14-2010, 12:50 PM
As Devos pointed out, Robinson was a locker room leader. Management has effectively told the players, "look, you're not only just commodities, you're going to wear it publicly when we get rid of you."

They already know they're commodities. I really don't think Robbo was surprised by any of this. And they told him back in November, so he's had five months to prepare.


Do you not think something that damaging to morale, and yet that unnecessary, is indicative of larger problems that need addressing? So what good, exactly, would shutting up about it do?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm going to suggest this aspect gets blown up a little bit too much. I mean, they're grown men, it's not like they're gonna cry because one player leaves

And with De Ro, De Guz and a coach like Preki there -- well, there are enough strong personalities and 'leaders' left to make up for Robbo.


It's a longstanding tradition at successfull football clubs -- which rely on supporters groups to remain so -- for fans to voice their displeasure when ongoing management issues are undermining the club. If people want to see this kind of "management by character assassination" continue, fine, be a sheep. Otherwise, speak up.

I know, but I'm mostly concerned with decisions that appreciably make the club worse. This one actually made it better (providing they spend that new-found money properly). So that's why I'm not that chuffed about it.

Parkdale
03-14-2010, 12:50 PM
Sorry but i have a hard time feeling robbo is so hard done by, making 300G for playing a game he loves.

it's relative.

The issue isn't how much he was paid, but how he was treated.

$300,000 is a a huge amount to you or me, but we're not professional athletes. Some Raptors are getting millions per year and some baseball players are getting tens of millions. Hell, a golfer is a billionaire! It's all relative, and what matters isn't how much he was paid, but how he was treated and how bad it looks for our club to treat players with that little respect.

we all knew he was shipping out before long. we all knew there was no room for him (at any salary) and JDG on the same squad. Still doesn;t excuse the handling of the situation at all.

Beach_Red
03-14-2010, 12:51 PM
think that 15 years ago, Izzy Asper could have seen what was in store for Canwest?


Mo Johnson is the 'Joseph Hazelwood' of Toronto FC. Look it up if you don't know the reference (but I'm betting you do)


The CanWest analogy doesn't work for mny reasons - mostly profitability.

What I'm getting at here is that there is a similarity in corporate structure at BellGlobeMedia and MLSE. CanWest was/is different (we'll see how things shake out with Shaw) because they've always had a very public face running things. You say CanWest, you think Izzy Asper. You say BellGlobeMedia or MLSE you think...

Everything you say about TFC and its reputation is true (or at least I agree with it) but it won't change with small tinkering, middle management changes.

Now, I've been warned about being too negative about MLSE, but as long as the faceless corp is running things they'll be run this way - and the biggest complaint here is the way things are done.

We'd all like to see that change.

ManUtd4ever
03-14-2010, 12:51 PM
for once I won't blame MLSE. In the past they've micromanaged all the teams which is not the right way to run the club. But as they've done with the leafs and raps, they've done what they should and given management control and let them succeed or fail on their own.

Then there is also the money and power factor. Sad as it is, with the sport and league still growing, MLSE is one of the strongest entities out there and we need that to get things done.

Exactly, this is strictly a managerial issue...

johnmolinaro
03-14-2010, 12:52 PM
I don’t understand.

If Carl is telling the truth (and why wouldn’t he?!) about what he was told, what more do you want the organization to say to him? I think they did the admirable thing in offering him the truth instead of leading him on that he was more valuable than he really is or worse, making him believe that he was part of their plan. I dunno. I think we’re overreacting because he was a fan favourite.

Maybe I’m missing something?!

Preki said that Robinson had "already made up his mind that he wasn't coming back here."

That makes it sound like Carl wanted to leave when, according to him, it was the team who told him he wasn`t in their plans.

If they didn`t want to keep him, that`s fine. If they told him back in November they were gonna try to trade him, that`s fine.

But it`s dishonest to suggest, as Preki did, that the reason why Robo is no longer with the team is because he made up his mind in the off-season that he didn`t want to play for Toronto FC anymore.

That`s the issue. That and the somewhat dis-respectful way they handled his departure.

John

James17930
03-14-2010, 12:55 PM
I'm sure what Preki meant was:

'We told him he wasn't in our plans so he made up his mind not to come back'

;)

drewski
03-14-2010, 12:57 PM
I don’t understand.

If Carl is telling the truth (and why wouldn’t he?!) about what he was told, what more do you want the organization to say to him? I think they did the admirable thing in offering him the truth instead of leading him on to believe that he was more valuable than he really is?! Or worse, making him believe that he was part of their plan?! I dunno. I think we’re overreacting because he was a fan favourite.

Maybe I’m missing something?!

you're missing the part where Preki (from Mo?) outright lied to the public when he said it was Robbo's decision to not come back

jloome
03-14-2010, 12:58 PM
Preki said that Robinson had "already made up his mind that he wasn't coming back here."

That makes it sound like Carl wanted to leave when, according to him, it was the team who told him he wasn`t in their plans.

If they didn`t want to keep him, that`s fine. If they told him back in November they were gonna try to trade him, that`s fine.

But it`s dishonest to suggest, as Preki did, that the reason why Robo is no longer with the team is because he made up his mind in the off-season that he didn`t want to play for Toronto FC anymore.

That`s the issue. That and the somewhat dis-respectful way they handled his departure.

John



What he said. I thought people understood this is the core issue, not the actual move. It's the fact they're making him wear it, wear the decision to go.

It's crap. It's low. That's why the normally "wouldn't say it if he had a mouthful" tactful guys like DeVos and Forrest are calling TFC out.

It's a sad way to handle PR. They still haven't learned nor do they appreciate why they are successful: because of knowledgeable, hardcore football supporters, not casual fans.

People understand the need to move a contract sometimes. But shitting on one our founding team members, a guy who have his heart for the club, by making it look like he wanted out is just low, corporate weasel behaviour. Very sad.

Blazer
03-14-2010, 01:00 PM
you're missing the part where Preki (from Mo?) outright lied to the public when he said it was Robbo's decision to not come back


Ahhh, ah-kay. Thanks drew.

Beach_Red
03-14-2010, 01:02 PM
People understand the need to move a contract sometimes. But shitting on one our founding team members, a guy who have his heart for the club, by making it look like he wanted out is just low, corporate weasel behaviour. Very sad.




Yes, that's it exactly.

woolly
03-14-2010, 01:07 PM
As I told you guys a month ago, what they were doing to Robbo was fucking horrendous. I'm surprised this team still has players who want to play for it...

I'm just glad its finally over and we can talk about this. Robbo's situation has been going on for a whiiiile. His family is not short of being pissed too.

Based on our preseason performance, it seems many on the team aren't interested in playing...

wzhxvy
03-14-2010, 01:09 PM
Why is anyone surprised that Preki lied ?

The dude was fired from his last job. Its not like he is some genius with a great track record that we hired on. Mo, who should be hanging by a thread, gave this guy a lifeline. To think that no loyalty exists between these two is crazy. Will they stab each other in the back to save their own hides, their character and history would say yes.

But no one should be surprised that the classless, short sighted, ineffective way this club has been managed will change anytime soon...very sad

Hooligan69
03-14-2010, 01:15 PM
Winning makes everyone happy.

Winning appears to be a foreign concept to TFC.

andyc
03-14-2010, 01:30 PM
Have you noticed that Nick Dasovic has appeared in a number of the interviews on Toronto FC TV since the Preki comments about Robbo?

Is Preki being kept away from the camera or is he fed up with Toronto media already??

Ontario Arab
03-14-2010, 01:32 PM
Have you noticed that Nick Dasovic has appeared in a number of the interviews on Toronto FC TV since the Preki comments about Robbo?

Is Preki being kept away from the camera or is he fed up with Toronto media already??
Im thinking there is a whole load of shit hitting the fan behind the scenes right now........

Carts
03-14-2010, 01:54 PM
Im thinking there is a whole load of shit hitting the fan behind the scenes right now........

Agreed...

Waggy
03-14-2010, 02:20 PM
To be fair to Preki, he wasn't named coach until the end of November. Carl said he was told in November that the team was going in another direction. Preki might not have known the details of what was going on, nor cared to ask for serious details on the matter. He probably just took Mo's word for it; its not like he'd have a reason not to. Like the rest of us. He could be just as angry at Mo for being used as a pawn, and unwittingly lying to a new fanbase. Plus looking like a moron.

AL-MO
03-14-2010, 02:23 PM
Im thinking there is a whole load of shit hitting the fan behind the scenes right now........

It has been since the "Danny Dichio can't travel" BS

DOMIN8R
03-14-2010, 02:37 PM
1. I am in awe that TFC management continues to think supporters are incapable of finding out when they lie to us. And worse, that there will be no fall out when they are found out. I can live with a decision being made that I don't agree with. But now I feel that I have to twice think about everyhting TFC management says.

2. I understand that supporters are of 2 minds when it comes to treating players like assets rather then people. I am of the opinion that part of the reason I support my club is that they reflect my values. I understand that some don't feel that way. When a player who has shown respect, to the club and fans, is treated in a manner that is disrespectful - I find it offensive to my personal values. This is why I am having a hard time feeling good about my club these days.

Redcoe15
03-14-2010, 02:42 PM
Preki said that Robinson had "already made up his mind that he wasn't coming back here."

That makes it sound like Carl wanted to leave when, according to him, it was the team who told him he wasn`t in their plans.

If they didn`t want to keep him, that`s fine. If they told him back in November they were gonna try to trade him, that`s fine.

But it`s dishonest to suggest, as Preki did, that the reason why Robo is no longer with the team is because he made up his mind in the off-season that he didn`t want to play for Toronto FC anymore.

That`s the issue. That and the somewhat dis-respectful way they handled his departure.

John


I agree wholeheartedly. Don't baldface lie about it being someone else's decision when, clearly, it was not.

You really need to judge what kind of a quality outfit any organization is, be it a pro soccer team or otherwise, by the way it treats it's personnel. Thanks in large part to Mo, this is an outfit that is truly the shits. The more Mo continues, the more damage he inflicts to the team's reputation.

Mo has got to go! (my first time saying it here)

S_D
03-14-2010, 03:21 PM
I'm sure what Preki meant was:

'We told him he wasn't in our plans so he made up his mind not to come back'

;)

you should go see if they have a pr position open :D

They should after this mess. Sad to see Robbo go but understandable, disgusted with how it has all gone down.

Whoop
03-14-2010, 03:46 PM
1. I am in awe that TFC management continues to think supporters are incapable of finding out when they lie to us. And worse, that there will be no fall out when they are found out. I can live with a decision being made that I don't agree with. But now I feel that I have to twice think about everyhting TFC management says.

2. I understand that supporters are of 2 minds when it comes to treating players like assets rather then people. I am of the opinion that part of the reason I support my club is that they reflect my values. I understand that some don't feel that way. When a player who has shown respect, to the club and fans, is treated in a manner that is disrespectful - I find it offensive to my personal values. This is why I am having a hard time feeling good about my club these days.

I agree.

Again, I have no issue with the move per se - even though it's not a great deal financially - but don't lie about it.

TFC has consistently been terrible on the PR side of things.

When they tell me that 2 + 2 = 5 we're going to question it.

Goes back to the Dichio situation, goes back to the "Mo is in Brazil scouting players", etc.

I know you always can't be transparent, but don't lie.

Nuvinho
03-14-2010, 03:48 PM
Question....if they told Robbo back in NOVEMBER they didn't want him......wouldn't it of been good to maybe trade him before the superdraft....instead of wait til 3 weeks before the season starts??

You are telling me that NYRB wouldn't of given up a draft pick back in November or December for Robbo, knowing they would only pay him $125K. This makes me want to slap somone.

MoJo is going on my list of "people I want to slap".

rocker
03-14-2010, 03:56 PM
Why is anyone surprised that Preki lied ?

The dude was fired from his last job. Its not like he is some genius with a great track record that we hired on.

This is completely false. Preki was not "fired" from Chivas.
And he indeed had a solid track record -- 3 straight seasons of making the playoffs, including winning coach of the year. He has a better record than many of the coaches in this league.

Just because you dislike the guy already, before he's coached one MLS game with the team, is no reason to lie about his past.

jloome
03-14-2010, 03:57 PM
To be fair to Preki, he wasn't named coach until the end of November. Carl said he was told in November that the team was going in another direction. Preki might not have known the details of what was going on, nor cared to ask for serious details on the matter. He probably just took Mo's word for it; its not like he'd have a reason not to. Like the rest of us. He could be just as angry at Mo for being used as a pawn, and unwittingly lying to a new fanbase. Plus looking like a moron.

AS with John Carver and the "you can't sit upstairs" story, which initially Carver was obviously led to believe came from the league, with Mo later admitting -- after the league made a statement -- that it came from him.

I think this club needs to pulls its colletive ego out of its ass and realize there are issues of corporate leadership here that have potentially long-term grave consequences and, profitable or not, long-term consequences cost money.

v00d00daddy
03-14-2010, 04:05 PM
Holy shit... now we're getting on Preki about the Robbo situation?

This is nuts.

Hate Mo....sure. Want him out...sure. Protest to do so...sure.

But now we're calling Preki a liar?

Who gives a shit really?

The team is better without Robbo and his salary.

Could it have been handled better? Sure. But that has nothing to do with Preki or how this team will look going forward.

Some of you guys are (WAY) more concerned about how the club treats the players than you are of how well the club plays.

Get the priorities straight. If this club was good on the field nobody would care about who was coming or going or who's feelings were hurt.

Make TFC better. That's the ultimate goal. I don't care how we get there.

Maybe some people should stop falling in love with these players. It makes the break ups so fucking dramatic for no good reason.

CretanBull
03-14-2010, 04:09 PM
AS with John Carver and the "you can't sit upstairs" story, which initially Carver was obviously led to believe came from the league, with Mo later admitting -- after the league made a statement -- that it came from him.

I think this club needs to pulls its colletive ego out of its ass and realize there are issues of corporate leadership here that have potentially long-term grave consequences and, profitable or not, long-term consequences cost money.

Mo lies with the same ease that he breathes.

Yohan
03-14-2010, 04:11 PM
Holy shit... now we're getting on Preki about the Robbo situation?

This is nuts.

Hate Mo....sure. Want him out...sure. Protest to do so...sure.

But now we're calling Preki a liar?

Who gives a shit really?

The team is better without Robbo and his salary.

Could it have been handled better? Sure. But that has nothing to do with Preki or how this team will look going forward.

Some of you guys are (WAY) more concerned about how the club treats the players than you are of how well the club plays.

Get the priorities straight. If this club was good on the field nobody would care about who was coming or going or who's feelings were hurt.

Make TFC better. That's the ultimate goal. I don't care how we get there.

Maybe some people should stop falling in love with these players. It makes the break ups so fucking dramatic for no good reason.
football is still one of those sports where respect plays a big part

would you want to work in a workplace where people gets treated like shit? Robbo was basically kicked out on the curve and spat on. you don't treat people like that and expect people around to feel good about it, esp when the person was as respected like Robbo was

i'm all for making TFC better too. but let's try to do it in a classy manner

rocker
03-14-2010, 04:13 PM
Holy shit... now we're getting on Preki about the Robbo situation?

This is nuts.

Hate Mo....sure. Want him out...sure. Protest to do so...sure.

But now we're calling Preki a liar?

Who gives a shit really?

The team is better without Robbo and his salary.

Could it have been handled better? Sure. But that has nothing to do with Preki or how this team will look going forward.

Some of you guys are (WAY) more concerned about how the club treats the players than you are of how well the club plays.

Get the priorities straight. If this club was good on the field nobody would care about who was coming or going or who's feelings were hurt.

Make TFC better. That's the ultimate goal. I don't care how we get there.

Maybe some people should stop falling in love with these players. It makes the break ups so fucking dramatic for no good reason.

normally I don't agree with you on things, but I think you're right about this. I think people blow this way out of proportion.

Preki did basically this same thing to Amado Guevara in 2007 and it didn't hurt Chivas one bit in signing players or succeeding.

Secondly, all this talk of his "leadership" ability can't mask the fact TFC had a split dressing room last year despite his leadership. But I don't give a crap about leadership if it doesn't translate into success on the field.

ensco
03-14-2010, 04:14 PM
Mo's been around too long and been through too much to care what anyone thinks.

This is only about money. Robbo wouldn't take a buyout, so Mo hangs him out to dry. He doesn't care if the fans don't like it either.

It seems incredibly shortsighted on Mo's part - it'll cause the day of reckoning to come sooner.

rocker
03-14-2010, 04:17 PM
would you want to work in a workplace where people gets treated like shit? Robbo was basically kicked out on the curve and spat on.

I don't see what's happened as "kicked out on the curb and spat on."

That would involve cutting Robinson without any more salary.

In this case, Robbo was told well in advance -- privately I might add -- that he wasn't in the team's plans. Then they let him go to NYRB for basically nothing -- helping him exit by paying $175,000 or so of his salary. And he gets to go to a nice new stadium near the biggest city in the world.

This isn't being "kicked out on the curb and spat on."

CretanBull
03-14-2010, 04:20 PM
Holy shit... now we're getting on Preki about the Robbo situation?

This is nuts.

Hate Mo....sure. Want him out...sure. Protest to do so...sure.

But now we're calling Preki a liar?

Who gives a shit really?

The team is better without Robbo and his salary.

Could it have been handled better? Sure. But that has nothing to do with Preki or how this team will look going forward.

Some of you guys are (WAY) more concerned about how the club treats the players than you are of how well the club plays.

Get the priorities straight. If this club was good on the field nobody would care about who was coming or going or who's feelings were hurt.

Make TFC better. That's the ultimate goal. I don't care how we get there.

Maybe some people should stop falling in love with these players. It makes the break ups so fucking dramatic for no good reason.

No one is disputing the move, the story is how it unfolded and how one of the most loyal and longest serving players was treated. This isn't about being in love with a player, its yet another example (in a long, long list) of our management being dishonest, misrepresenting a situation and acting disrespectfully - seemingly not even realizing that its doing so. This is condemnation of the management, not the love of a player.

All of us here share the same goal of wanting to get better, but if you think that our management can act the way that they do without it having consequences that will effect our ability to get better then you're in for a pretty big let down. The players aren't playing for giant salaries - there's limits on how much they can earn - so the details and little things become desiding factors when a player is chosing to sign for one team or another.

As for Preki being a liar...he either lied, or unknowingly repeated one of Mo's lies. Either way, its a wake up call to anyone who thought that Preki was going to come in here an do things his own way etc. (I was never one of those people).

CretanBull
03-14-2010, 04:23 PM
I don't see what's happened as "kicked out on the curb and spat on."

That would involve cutting Robinson without any more salary.

In this case, Robbo was told well in advance -- privately I might add -- that he wasn't in the team's plans. Then they let him go to NYRB for basically nothing -- helping him exit by paying $175,000 or so of his salary. And he gets to go to a nice new stadium near the biggest city in the world.

This isn't being "kicked out on the curb and spat on."


You're forgetting the part where they tell people that it was Robbo's decision to leave - that he turned his back on us - when in fact it was their decision to move on.

I can live with their decision, why can't they be honest about it?

wzhxvy
03-14-2010, 04:25 PM
This is completely false. Preki was not "fired" from Chivas.
And he indeed had a solid track record -- 3 straight seasons of making the playoffs, including winning coach of the year. He has a better record than many of the coaches in this league.

Just because you dislike the guy already, before he's coached one MLS game with the team, is no reason to lie about his past.

You are wrong. "Preki left Chivas "by mutual consent" on November 12, 2009". You think TFC went after him while he was employed genious ? When you hear that term rocket scientist, what does that usually mean ? If you want to sit here and play word games, then have at it. Chivas no longer wanted him...its very simple. Because if they did, then TFC tampered and they would be looking for some sort of compensation. So yes he was fired. If he was so brilliant, why didnt they keep him, because he was clearly under contract ?

Second of all, in this situation Preki clearly lied. If you want to defend him for whatever reason, go nuts. But so far, he is showing himself to be in the same calibre as MO in terms of spine and integrity. Whether he ends up being a good coach for us, is a different story and I am not making judgements on that yet.

Beach_Red
03-14-2010, 04:28 PM
I think this club needs to pulls its colletive ego out of its ass and realize there are issues of corporate leadership here that have potentially long-term grave consequences and, profitable or not, long-term consequences cost money.

That's a bit of an understatement, but it's a start.

One thing I will say about the corporate leadership is that they do react to what the fans demand, so be careful what you demand. This is a city that falls in love with some of its athletes and hates others and the ownership does react to that.

So, if what upsets the fans the most is that some players aren't treated well enough in their departure that's an easy fix for the organization (this is an organization that brought back guys like Wendell Clark and Doug Gilmour after their playing days were clearly over because they were fan favourites).

If what the fans want is a championship that's a lot harder. It seems like making such a big deal about the way individual players are treated plays right into this ownership's interests and keeps the voices of those demanding winning from being heard.

Not many corporations think about the long-term much, and certainly management on one or two year contracts will never think about the long term.

Yohan
03-14-2010, 04:28 PM
You're forgetting the part where they tell people that it was Robbo's decision to leave - that he turned his back on us - when in fact it was their decision to move on.

I can live with their decision, why can't they be honest about it?
basically Robbo got a knife to the back, and Mo trying to twist it some more

CretanBull
03-14-2010, 04:34 PM
Second of all, in this situation Preki clearly lied. If you want to defend him for whatever reason, go nuts. But so far, he is showing himself to be in the same calibre as MO in terms of spine and integrity. Whether he ends up being a good coach for us, is a different story and I am not making judgements on that yet.

He may have unknowingly repeated one of Mo's lies.

Having said that, some people have turned to Preki as the saviour of the club and as much as I hope that he's successfull as a coach and helps turn our team around he wasn't hired by Mo to be a threat or challenge to Mo's authority or control of the team. I hope that we'll get better results under Preki, but I don't expect anything new in terms of changing the reputation of the management - he's been brought in by them to be one of them. Preki was hired to be Mo's man in the locker room and on the side lines - that's what we should expect from him.

Beach_Red
03-14-2010, 04:41 PM
Mo's been around too long and been through too much to care what anyone thinks.

This is only about money. Robbo wouldn't take a buyout, so Mo hangs him out to dry. He doesn't care if the fans don't like it either.

It seems incredibly shortsighted on Mo's part - it'll cause the day of reckoning to come sooner.

Coaches and GMs are hired to be fired, they know it. They're disposable to their bosses. I don't want to defend Mo (well, actually it can be a little fun to watch people here get soooo bent out of shape over the guy ;)) but with a series of one year contracts, how can he not be shortsighted? So now he has what, two years, but if they don't make the playoffs he'll quit (of course, this cheap organization won't hire someone else as long as they have to pay him and MLS probably has a big say).

Offering such short-term contracts got TFC into this mess of shortsightedness. If it hadn't been this GM it would have been some other guy doing the same thing - the circumstances would have been the same. In order to keep his job he would have had to deliever incremental incrases in point totals. That's what they asked for and that's what they got.

But is it what they should have asked for?

algieb
03-14-2010, 04:46 PM
car robinson was not part off the the team we want going forward,he was tfc leader on the park , he was our hard man in midfield, 300 a year break it down 6000 a weak less heavy tax ,not going to make him a millionar not a big wage for a professional football player, whith a gate off 20 000 every home game , lets see what the management bring to replace on the fied leader,season starting like this is not a good omen

TFC Cityboy
03-14-2010, 04:52 PM
As much as we point the finger at Mo on this, much of what we are pissed off about is the communication/inconsistencies being fed to us by the club.

Be it Dichio's sudden inability to fold himself into an airline seat, Carver watching games from the stands, Robbo wanting out or Adrian's "career-threatening neck injury" we are being fed bullshit by whoever is responsible for communications at BMO Field.

I think I am correct in saying Michelle Lissel is where the buck stops for this (as Director of Media and Public Relations). No matter who it is they are incompetent at their job and an embarassment to Toronto FC.

CretanBull
03-14-2010, 04:57 PM
As much as we point the finger at Mo on this, much of what we are pissed off about is the communication/inconsistencies being fed to us by the club.

Be it Dichio's sudden inability to fold himself into an airline seat, Carver watching games from the stands, Robbo wanting out or Adrian's "career-threatening neck injury" we are being fed bullshit by whoever is responsible for communications at BMO Field.

I think I am correct in saying Michelle Lissel is where the buck stops for this (as Director of Media and Public Relations). No matter who it is they are incompetent at their job and an embarassment to Toronto FC.

I'm reasonably sure that she doesn't act independently - she's told to write up a press release on a particular event and she does it. If no one comes to her about Robbo leaving (for example) I doubt that she's going to issue a press release on her own. She certainly wouldn't be involved in shaping the story, she'd just professionalize a statement by the made by the club.

v00d00daddy
03-14-2010, 04:59 PM
You're forgetting the part where they tell people that it was Robbo's decision to leave - that he turned his back on us - when in fact it was their decision to move on.

I can live with their decision, why can't they be honest about it?

You're not even being honest with what happened. Who at TFC said that Robbo turned his back on us? You just want to make a mountain out of a mole hill.


basically Robbo got a knife to the back, and Mo trying to twist it some more

Wow...over react much?


He may have unknowingly repeated one of Mo's lies.

Having said that, some people have turned to Preki as the saviour of the club and as much as I hope that he's successfull as a coach and helps turn our team around he wasn't hired by Mo to be a threat or challenge to Mo's authority or control of the team. I hope that we'll get better results under Preki, but I don't expect anything new in terms of changing the reputation of the management - he's been brought in by them to be one of them. Preki was hired to be Mo's man in the locker room and on the side lines - that's what we should expect from him.

So you've already written off Preki? I'm usually one of the most negative guys around here but some of you people are really hilarious. How would Preki making the team better on the field have anything to do with the reputation of the management? You're already shitting on a coach who's never even coached ONE meaningful game for TFC. How much sense does that make?



Look...Robbo said in his own words that the club told him he wasn't in the plans...back in November. He's upset about that (understandably) but that's where it ends. His tenure with Toronto ended 5 months ago. He's had plenty of time to get himself settled over the off season.

So they didn't give him a proper send off. That sucks but let's move on. Fuck...Robbo's already moved on. And here we're still talking about such an inconsiquential move and blowing it up as if it actually means something with respect to the upcoming season.

Again...priorities.

Roogsy
03-14-2010, 05:25 PM
Our team is becoming an embarrassment, and I now truly believe that the legacy
and reputation Mo is creating for our club will hurt us for YEARS down the road.
The well has been poisoned.

Oh gawd I've been worried about this since the start of last year when I started wondering what the heck was going on behind the scenes.

A year later, I am more worried than ever. Mo isn't just screwing up this club THIS year, it's going to come back and bite us in the ass for years to come.

Thanks Mo. Please leave.

CretanBull
03-14-2010, 05:28 PM
You're not even being honest with what happened. Who at TFC said that Robbo turned his back on us? You just want to make a mountain out of a mole hill.


When we're told that a player who's known for his leadership and loyalty doesn't want to play for us anymore then the message sent is that he's turned his back on us. Two things have been made clear by TFC:

1. They decided last November to move forward without Carl.

2. Last week Preki said “We believe he’s already made up his mind that he’s not coming back here.”

There's a clear attempt to make their decision look like it was Carl's decision when we know that it wasn't.

As I've already said, I'm fine with the decision, I get it, I understand why it was made - but why lie about it? Why make Carl look like the villan? What would be so difficult about saying "One of the unfortunate realities of working in a salary cap system is making hard decisions and at this point we think that it's in the best interest of the club to move forward without Carl Robinson this season. We'd like to thank him for his three years of loyal service and wish him the best of luck in New York."

Instead we get "We believe he’s already made up his mind that he’s not coming back here." and "...the people who do not really want to be here, we don’t want them here."

A little later, Preki paired the comment "he had also already made up his mind and he was not coming back here" with "The decision had to be made and we now have to move forward" - again, an attempt to make their decision look like his.

Forget the fact that you don't like Robbo and that you're glad to see him go, is this how you want to see your front office/manager/coach act?



So you've already written off Preki? I'm usually one of the most negative guys around here but some of you people are really hilarious. How would Preki making the team better on the field have anything to do with the reputation of the management? You're already shitting on a coach who's never even coached ONE meaningful game for TFC. How much sense does that make?


I'm not shitting on Preki or writing him off. I wrote "I hope that he's successfull as a coach and helps turn our team around" and "I hope that we'll get better results under Preki" - hardly damning comments! I'm shocked that you can't see a relationship between the reputation of management and the coach's ability to make the team better on the field. My comments about Preki are that some people think he's the saviour of the club, that he's going to be the guy who stands up to Mo etc. I'm only pointing out that Mo isn't dumb enough to hire someone who's going to threaten or challenge him, so we shouldn't expect Preki to do those things (as many people are).

Roogsy
03-14-2010, 05:32 PM
This team is 3 seasons old and I can't believe the amount of drama this team has produced in such a short time.

How many people are worried about the negative direction this team keeps maintaining? It's a sharp contrast from Seattle and even San Jose who despite having a poor starting record, haven't had nearly the same amount of drama.

This team is a disaster. The way it was put together is a disaster. It's coaching history is a disaster. The way it treats players has been a disaster. It's record is a disaster. It really makes my head shake at the lack of professionalism and class coming out of this team. I've been working in a corporate environment since I was 18 and I can honestly say I have never seen anything like this. It's embarrassing.

v00d00daddy
03-14-2010, 05:38 PM
As I've already said, I'm fine with the decision, I get it, I understand why it was made - but why lie about it? Why make Carl look like the villan?


How did any of that make Robbo look like a villain? Why does their have to be a villain in all of this? This is my point. This is why I think people are blowing this out of proportion. Robbo was here....while he was here he was paid right up near the top of the league. He was no longer needed when JDG was signed and the club told him so. So I ask again...why does their have to be a villain in this whole situation.



Forget the fact that you don't like Robbo and that you're glad to see him go, is this how you want to see your front office/manager/coach act?


Yes and No. It would have been nice to see the club wish Carl all the best. At the same time, I'm very happy that the club has cleaned house and is trying to start over. It's been needed since our horrid run in the summer of year 2 and it's been long over due. So...No I don't want the manager to treat the players like shit but Yes, I do want the manager to get rid of players that are holding the team back.

Roogsy
03-14-2010, 05:46 PM
Gawd...when are you people going to understand this isn't about shipping a player out, it's about doing it the right way?

Most people are ok with Robbo leaving, that's not the point of contention. Talk about setting up a strawman argument!

King Tut
03-14-2010, 05:52 PM
Some people are simply and intentionally avoiding giving an answer to the question "Why did the FO lie to the fans?"

Everyone who thinks we (people who are angry with the bullshit lies) are blowing this out of proportion is just going around in circles and acting like we are going crazy over the move itself and they don't want to understand that it's the manner the way shit was done (lies), that we're angry about!

To me, it's either one of three things...

1) Some people are thick.
2) They simply can't admit to being wrong and arguing an argument that doesn't even fucking exist in the first place.
3) They can't read English.

FOR THE MILLIONTH FUCKING TIME, PEOPLE ARE ANGRY AT THE WAY WE WERE LIED TO BY THE FRONT OFFICE, NOT BECAUSE OF ROBBO ACTUALLY BEING TRANSFERRED!!!!

CretanBull
03-14-2010, 05:56 PM
How did any of that make Robbo look like a villain? Why does their have to be a villain in all of this? This is my point. This is why I think people are blowing this out of proportion. Robbo was here....while he was here he was paid right up near the top of the league. He was no longer needed when JDG was signed and the club told him so. So I ask again...why does their have to be a villain in this whole situation.

You're right - there doesn't have to be a villain at all. If TFC simply said that Robbo is a luxury that they can live without out and can make better use of his cap hit then there's no villain - we're just left to deal with the reality of business in a cap based league.

However, when they say that it was Carl's decision to leave they (completely necessarily) create a villain because as fans we're suddenly being told that one of our heart and soul players doesn't want to play for us anymore. Obviously, we're going to feel betrayed by that...we're going to be left to question the honestly of a man who's spent a lot of time talking about how much he loves it here, loves the city, loves the people, loves the fans etc.

By TFC making it seem like it was Carl's idea to leave, they're making a villain out of him (especially to anyone who cared about him, and believed the things that he said).




Yes and No. It would have been nice to see the club wish Carl all the best. At the same time, I'm very happy that the club has cleaned house and is trying to start over. It's been needed since our horrid run in the summer of year 2 and it's been long over due. So...No I don't want the manager to treat the players like shit but Yes, I do want the manager to get rid of players that are holding the team back.

You've missed the point. I'm not asking if it was a good or bad move to get rid of Carl (I agree 100% that this team needs a fresh start) or even if they should or shouldn't have given him a nice send off...I'm asking you if you think that its a good thing to see our team's FO/manager/coach lie about the circumstances surrounding a player's trade?

Beach_Red
03-14-2010, 06:02 PM
Gawd...when are you people going to understand this isn't about shipping a player out, it's about doing it the right way?

Most people are ok with Robbo leaving, that's not the point of contention. Talk about setting up a strawman argument!


Okay, but you do realize this is an organization whose largest shareholder is a union that was fine with breaking other unions in the name of profit (remember Maple leaf Foods?).

No one here likes the way the players have been treated (and there are many worse cases than Robbo - I'd say Ricketts was treated worse, dropped just before his contract would have been gauranteed, but no one here said anything about that...) but no one should be surprised.

King Tut
03-14-2010, 06:04 PM
I'd say Ricketts was treated worse, dropped just before his contract would have been gauranteed, but no one here said anything about that...) but no one should be surprised.

Ricketts did fuck all over here. What did he do other than twitter and put his mind to everything except the job he was supposed to be here for? Don't even compare insult Robbo and compare him to Ricketts.

Ricketts...Pffttttttttttt! LOL :rolleyes:

Ricketts would make a great clown, AT BEST.

That guy's a disaster. I've never seen an unprofessional player with no achievements, and yet such a big ego. He's more concerned with finding dancers, hot airline ticket deals, pimping his merch, etc.

The best decision this club has ever taken was to axe Ricketts. FACT.

AL-MO
03-14-2010, 06:10 PM
Some people are simply and intentionally avoiding giving an answer to the question "Why did the FO lie to the fans?"

Everyone who thinks we (people who are angry with the bullshit lies) are blowing this out of proportion is just going around in circles and acting like we are going crazy over the move itself and they don't want to understand that it's the manner the way shit was done (lies), that we're angry about!

To me, it's either one of three things...

1) Some people are thick.
2) They simply can't admit to being wrong and arguing an argument that doesn't even fucking exist in the first place.
3) They can't read English.

FOR THE MILLIONTH FUCKING TIME, PEOPLE ARE ANGRY AT THE WAY WE WERE LIED TO BY THE FRONT OFFICE, NOT BECAUSE OF ROBBO ACTUALLY BEING TRANSFERRED!!!!

Agree 100%.

Oh and nice edit. :D

Beach_Red
03-14-2010, 06:11 PM
Ricketts did fuck all over here. What did he do other than twitter and put his mind to everything except the job he was supposed to be here for? Don't even compare insult Robbo and compare him to Ricketts.

Ricketts...Pffttttttttttt! LOL

Ricketts would make a great clown, that's about it.

So is this about "the way it was done" or who it was done to? Are there different standards for different players? Is the problem the team lied, or the team lied about Robinson?

Who gets to decide which players are to be respected and which ones can be screwed?

King Tut
03-14-2010, 06:12 PM
Agree 100%.

Oh and nice edit. :D

Thanks. I had to go for the edit, so there's no excuse for people intentionally trying to miss the point.

If people still don't see the point we're trying to make here, then all I'm left with is ":facepalm:".

I can't believe it's been 3 pages and some still cannot read. Looks like there's tons of ESLs on board.

v00d00daddy
03-14-2010, 06:14 PM
I'm asking you if you think that its a good thing to see our team's FO/manager/coach lie about the circumstances surrounding a player's trade?

No...it's never good when a club lies to the fans.

I get that and I want Mo gone for that (and so many other things).

My point is the "so many other things".

I don't really care about how Serioux or Dichio or Robinson were treated.

Why?

Because I'm more concerned about how good this team is going to be. Honestly..I think this team has the potential (and room) to be better now that the above named guys are gone. That's not to say that I won't miss them (except Robbo of course :)) but there comes a time when a team has to clean house.

That time was BADLY needed at TFC. So badly that I don't care what it takes to achieve it. Even if it means pissing off some players.

If the team is better this year as a result of treating the player like shit then it won't matter to me.

On the other hand...if this kind of stuff makes the team worse then it just solidifies further the need to get rid of Mo.

Right now we're talking about getting rid of Mo when it's not even clear if he's made the team better or not.

v00d00daddy
03-14-2010, 06:17 PM
Ricketts did fuck all over here. What did he do other than twitter and put his mind to everything except the job he was supposed to be here for? Don't even compare insult Robbo and compare him to Ricketts.

Ricketts...Pffttttttttttt! LOL :rolleyes:

Ricketts would make a great clown, AT BEST.

That guy's a disaster. I've never seen an unprofessional player with no achievements, and yet such a big ego. He's more concerned with finding dancers, hot airline ticket deals, pimping his merch, etc.

The best decision this club has ever taken was to axe Ricketts. FACT.

So it's okay to treat a player like shit if the player is no good or you don't like him?

For the record...I agree with you 100% about Ricketts.:)

King Tut
03-14-2010, 06:17 PM
So is this about "the way it was done" or who it was done to? Are there different standards for different players? Is the problem the team lied, or the team lied about Robinson?

Who gets to decide which players are to be respected and which ones can be screwed?

To answer your first question, it is about "the way it was done". How was Mr. Ricketts mistreated? The problem is about the team lying.

As for your second question, the fans play a big role and it's usually based on what the player has done, said, acted, and played while with the team. Go around at the next match and ask people, how many respect Ricketts. You might do, but there's a good majority that think the dude's a joke. Respect is earned, not a given.

King Tut
03-14-2010, 06:18 PM
So it's okay to treat a player like shit if the player is no good or you don't like him?

For the record...I agree with you 100% about Ricketts.:)

TFC didn't treat Twitter like shit. They were actually waaaaaaaaaaaay too patient with him. :facepalm:

AL-MO
03-14-2010, 06:19 PM
Thanks. I had to go for the edit, so there's no excuse for people intentionally trying to lose the point.

If people still don't see the point we're trying to make here, then all I'm left with is ":facepalm:".

I can't believe it's been 3 pages and some still cannot read. Looks like there's tons of ESLs on board.

Yeah I went to quote your original post and that popped up. I had a good laugh.

Along with you I was in NY for last season's disappointing finale and I was hoping for something new this year with Preki. But I guess its the same old story given that Mo is still in charge.

Beach_Red
03-14-2010, 06:33 PM
To answer your first question, it is about "the way it was done". How was Mr. Ricketts mistreated? The problem is about the team lying.

As for your second question, the fans play a big role and it's usually based on what the player has done, said, acted, and played while with the team. Go around at the next match and ask people, how many respect Ricketts. You might do, but there's a good majority that think the dude's a joke. Respect is earned, not a given.

For the first part, Ricketts was released just before his contract would have kicked in for the rest of the season. He claimed he didn't know that - and he may have even been lied tp by the FO. If people are going to constantly level this argument about the lies (which very well be true) they should be consistent about it. Was the team too patient with Ricketts? Maybe, maybe not, but if the discussion is about the way players are treated then that's beside the point.

For the secod part, when I started to get interested in TFC my biggest worry was that the fans would be the same as Leaf fans. Favourites being signed (and running a clique in the dressing room) and others being run out of town - remember Larry Murphy and his two Stanley Cups with Detroit? People kept saying football fans were different. Right now it's not looking like it.

If you're going to be concerned about management's treatment of the players (and I agree with you about that), but then you're going to make that treatment conditional -- how does that work?

What we want is an organization that respects every player it signs to a contract and lies to no one. Don;t tell them it's okay to treat some players shitty. If you give them an inch...

CretanBull
03-14-2010, 06:37 PM
No...it's never good when a club lies to the fans.

I get that and I want Mo gone for that (and so many other things).

My point is the "so many other things".

I don't really care about how Serioux or Dichio or Robinson were treated.

Why?

Because I'm more concerned about how good this team is going to be. Honestly..I think this team has the potential (and room) to be better now that the above named guys are gone. That's not to say that I won't miss them (except Robbo of course :)) but there comes a time when a team has to clean house.

That time was BADLY needed at TFC. So badly that I don't care what it takes to achieve it. Even if it means pissing off some players.

If the team is better this year as a result of treating the player like shit then it won't matter to me.

On the other hand...if this kind of stuff makes the team worse then it just solidifies further the need to get rid of Mo.

Right now we're talking about getting rid of Mo when it's not even clear if he's made the team better or not.


What you're not seeing is the relationship between treating respected players like shit and being able to improve your team. Players talk. Players follow what and how things happen in this league. It's a small community. Teams develope reputations, which effect (positively or negatively) their ability to attract players to thier club.

Early on our reputation was "top rate facilities, first class organization" now it's "management that can't be trusted, liars"...that reputation was earned not only from treating players like shit, but LYING about it and that's the point that you keep missing. I understand that Dichio had to retire in order for us to sign JDG, but why lie about it? I can accept Serioux being traded, but why lie about it? I can live with a Robbo-free TFC, but why lie about it? All of those moves might make us a better team - and I hope that they do - but why lie about it?

There's no reason to treat a player like shit. If moves have to be made to make the team better then I am 100% for it - even if its a difficult decision. What I'm not in favour of is all the unnessary lying. Need to force Dichio into retirement to improve the team? Do it, but don't lie about it. Need to deal Serioux because you don't rate him? Do it, but don't lie about it. Can Robinson's cap hit be used more effectively? Bye-bye Carl, but don't lie about it.

You want to focus on everying but the lying, but no one here is debating the pros and cons of any of the moves, we're just fed up with all the lying.

Waggy
03-14-2010, 06:57 PM
What you're not seeing is the relationship between treating respected players like shit and being able to improve your team. Players talk. Players follow what and how things happen in this league. It's a small community. Teams develope reputations, which effect (positively or negatively) their ability to attract players to thier club.

Early on our reputation was "top rate facilities, first class organization" now it's "management that can't be trusted, liars"...that reputation was earned not only from treating players like shit, but LYING about it and that's the point that you keep missing. I understand that Dichio had to retire in order for us to sign JDG, but why lie about it? I can accept Serioux being traded, but why lie about it? I can live with a Robbo-free TFC, but why lie about it? All of those moves might make us a better team - and I hope that they do - but why lie about it?

There's no reason to treat a player like shit. If moves have to be made to make the team better then I am 100% for it - even if its a difficult decision. What I'm not in favour of is all the unnessary lying. Need to force Dichio into retirement to improve the team? Do it, but don't lie about it. Need to deal Serioux because you don't rate him? Do it, but don't lie about it. Can Robinson's cap hit be used more effectively? Bye-bye Carl, but don't lie about it.

You want to focus on everying but the lying, but no one here is debating the pros and cons of any of the moves, we're just fed up with all the lying.

I have nothing to add, I just wanted this to get posted again. Theres no golf clap emoticon, but just use your imagination for it. Incredibly well said

DOMIN8R
03-14-2010, 07:00 PM
^^^ & +1

v00d00daddy
03-14-2010, 07:05 PM
What you're not seeing is the relationship between treating respected players like shit and being able to improve your team. Players talk. Players follow what and how things happen in this league. It's a small community. Teams develope reputations, which effect (positively or negatively) their ability to attract players to thier club.

Early on our reputation was "top rate facilities, first class organization" now it's "management that can't be trusted, liars"...that reputation was earned not only from treating players like shit, but LYING about it and that's the point that you keep missing. I understand that Dichio had to retire in order for us to sign JDG, but why lie about it? I can accept Serioux being traded, but why lie about it? I can live with a Robbo-free TFC, but why lie about it? All of those moves might make us a better team - and I hope that they do - but why lie about it?

There's no reason to treat a player like shit. If moves have to be made to make the team better then I am 100% for it - even if its a difficult decision. What I'm not in favour of is all the unnessary lying. Need to force Dichio into retirement to improve the team? Do it, but don't lie about it. Need to deal Serioux because you don't rate him? Do it, but don't lie about it. Can Robinson's cap hit be used more effectively? Bye-bye Carl, but don't lie about it.

You want to focus on everying but the lying, but no one here is debating the pros and cons of any of the moves, we're just fed up with all the lying.

Fair enough. I have glossed over the fact that there seems to have been a lot of lies coming out of TFC...which is really shitty.

I agree with you that we should not be lied to...about Dichio, Serioux or Robbo.

My sticking point is the notion that Robbo was treated like shit. I just don't see it. He was never lied to. We were lied to about him. There's a difference. He was told, straight up, that he was no longer needed. 5 months ago. So where/when was he treated like shit. His relatonship with TFC ended a long time ago and he's move on. So again...where was he treated like shit?

Back to the lying...I totally agree with you and if it turns out that this club is toxic because of Mo (which it's looking like) AND we don't get any results...then I'll be right next to you at the march to get rid of Mo. Until then...I'm in wait and see mode. At least for one game :D

King Tut
03-14-2010, 07:15 PM
Yeah I went to quote your original post and that popped up. I had a good laugh.

Along with you I was in NY for last season's disappointing finale and I was hoping for something new this year with Preki. But I guess its the same old story given that Mo is still in charge.

Yeah probably. Mo's record with NYRB is complete shit too and the reaction from the NYRB fans said it all. They were all relieved to have dumped "the burden" on us. They sold us their shit and MLSE gladly ate it!

King Tut
03-14-2010, 07:28 PM
For the first part, Ricketts was released just before his contract would have kicked in for the rest of the season. He claimed he didn't know that - and he may have even been lied tp by the FO. If people are going to constantly level this argument about the lies (which very well be true) they should be consistent about it. Was the team too patient with Ricketts? Maybe, maybe not, but if the discussion is about the way players are treated then that's beside the point.

For the secod part, when I started to get interested in TFC my biggest worry was that the fans would be the same as Leaf fans. Favourites being signed (and running a clique in the dressing room) and others being run out of town - remember Larry Murphy and his two Stanley Cups with Detroit? People kept saying football fans were different. Right now it's not looking like it.

If you're going to be concerned about management's treatment of the players (and I agree with you about that), but then you're going to make that treatment conditional -- how does that work?

What we want is an organization that respects every player it signs to a contract and lies to no one. Don;t tell them it's okay to treat some players shitty. If you give them an inch...

Twitter can claim he was lied to, but he also claims he didn't spit out shit on his twitter account and his record with other teams doesn't say much either. He doesn't seem to leave behind much positive feedback with any team he goes to. It's always the same shit. He's not focused, he's too concerned with the propaganda, he's lazy, etc, etc. I've heard it from different fans of different teams Twitter has played for. Surely he's the problem and not the clubs that release him. Everyone always brings up his unprofessional attitude and how his mind is on everything except the football. Judging by his character and what I've seen from his time here on and off the pitch, I'm not quiet sure I believe a word that comes out of his mouth. Hence, he doesn't have my respect and good riddance now that he's gone.

On the other hand, Robbo has been nothing short of a true professional, mentor and leader.

Listen, ideally management should treat the departure of players respectfully and professionally. However, the way a player acts/performs/speaks and other factors also determine whether that player deserves the respect of the fans or not. Why should I have my pants up in a knot over some guy like Twitter? If he hasn't shown efforts, commitment, focus or anything while with the team, why would I fight for his "respect"?

The reason people are upset with the treatment of Dichio, Serioux, and Robbo is because these people are worthy of it. If Twitter was worthy of any kind of respect as a player, he would have had tons of people sticking up for him too. But the reality is, Twitter did fuck all. Just because I am willing to voice my opinion over the treatment of people who deserve it, doesn't mean I must be concerned with the way Twitter was axed. As I said, he didn't show much heart and so I don't really care how he feels the club treated him when he was leaving.

In conclusion, when a player is has a bad history with previous clubs (and his play doesn't match up), it becomes harder to sympathize with him or even believe him. When a player is a loyal servant, leader and a fighter for the crest he wears, a lot more people sympathize and support his cause.

That's my final $0.02.

mdc 77
03-14-2010, 07:31 PM
What to say? I'm a bit pissed, almost embarrassed, but that's a tough thing to say about the club I've supported before they even had a name. The club I want to love but just wish was so much more.

There has been a build up of events over the short history of this club that really lack basic respect for supporters and players both past and present. I don't know who is to blame, sure Mo but there is more to the management of this club then just him.

I wish I could be proud of my club, sadly I admit I'm not. I want to use words like class, ethics and respect to describe TFC, I can't. I will still support this club, no doubt but not the way I truly want to.

AL-MO
03-14-2010, 07:48 PM
Fair enough. I have glossed over the fact that there seems to have been a lot of lies coming out of TFC...which is really shitty.

I agree with you that we should not be lied to...about Dichio, Serioux or Robbo.

My sticking point is the notion that Robbo was treated like shit. I just don't see it. He was never lied to. We were lied to about him. There's a difference. He was told, straight up, that he was no longer needed. 5 months ago. So where/when was he treated like shit. His relatonship with TFC ended a long time ago and he's move on. So again...where was he treated like shit?

Back to the lying...I totally agree with you and if it turns out that this club is toxic because of Mo (which it's looking like) AND we don't get any results...then I'll be right next to you at the march to get rid of Mo. Until then...I'm in wait and see mode. At least for one game :D

Really? Even though he attended training, and traveled with the team up until last week?

If he wasn't with the team he would have been sitting at home in Wales. Not hung out to dry for a few months, not knowing where his future would be, but knowing it wasn't with TFC.

Oldtimer
03-14-2010, 07:52 PM
These problems are Mo's fault.

It's pretty hard to trust him, given the record.

Mo must go, plain and simple. The sooner the better.

S_D
03-14-2010, 07:58 PM
And we thought the Galaxy was a circus last year!

Great going Mo. Best thing you can do is hit the road.

v00d00daddy
03-14-2010, 07:58 PM
Really? Even though he attended training, and traveled with the team up until last week?

If he wasn't with the team he would have been sitting at home in Wales. Not hung out to dry for a few months, not knowing where his future would be, but knowing it wasn't with TFC.


Yeah but he said himself that he was told back in November that he wasn't in TFC's future plans. He knew that they were looking to move him. Hardly hung out to dry.

In any event...this is the last thing I'm going to say about the Robbo situation.

It's done. I don't care anymore and I'm looking forward to seeing what this team will look like this season.

Dirk Diggler
03-14-2010, 07:58 PM
These problems are Mo's fault.

It's pretty hard to trust him, given the record.

Mo must go, plain and simple. The sooner the better.

What? You are not a true supporter ... In Mo We Trust :scarf::flare::drum:

Redpunkfiddle
03-14-2010, 08:11 PM
My sticking point is the notion that Robbo was treated like shit. I just don't see it. He was never lied to. We were lied to about him. There's a difference. He was told, straight up, that he was no longer needed. 5 months ago. So where/when was he treated like shit. His relatonship with TFC ended a long time ago and he's move on. So again...where was he treated like shit?


Simple- lying to the supporters about why Robbo left is treating him like shit.

jazzy
03-14-2010, 08:16 PM
sadly, this isn't really a surprise. We suspected it happened like this all along.

I think the saddest part about this whole thing isn't just the treatment of
one of our players, but the overall style of 'management' currently being used
by the people running our club. It's tragic but it seems that the very Canadian
virtues we all hold so dear (honestly, teamwork, dedication to your peers, integrity)
are no longer present in Toronto FC's management. And it's not like they sold our
their morals to put together a winner.... they've sold their soul for nothing!


it's a crying shame. Our clubs reputation is in the hands of dirty, dishonest weasels.
(sorry, that's disrespectful to the rodents.)

Our team is becoming an embarrassment, and I now truly believe that the legacy
and reputation Mo is creating for our club will hurt us for YEARS down the road.
The well has been poisoned.

Very well said.....Who in their right mind would want to play here, esp since are weather is not california like, and although we know the city is a wonderful city turning back noone, but only after living here do you know that. Our management is so out of control and full of themselves, you're right, now I fear for our reputation and future. This is very important to athletes, esp when they have their choice of other teams. Class, Mo you've lost it and can't buy it.

Nuvinho
03-14-2010, 08:19 PM
In Mo We Dis-trust

jazzy
03-14-2010, 08:21 PM
I have to respectfully disagree a little bit.

I don't think it's really as bad as all that. Plus, I believe that any bad rep. there is will leave when Mo does.

People around the league still want to come play at TFC just because of the fans and the amenities the club provides -- watch the Ty Harden interview where it's obvious how happy he was to be traded here.

Yes, how things went down with Carl are lamentable, but I really think we're all (media included) focusing way too much time and energy on it, simply because there's nothing really else to talk about right now.

Carl Robinson was not going to help us win this year -- he was either going to be there when we lost or contribute to our losing.

So once the season starts and we can either be happy about winning or dissect how badly we're losing, this whole Robbo story is basically going to fade away, because, as nice a guy as he is, he just really wasn't a part of the on-the-field plans any more.

You are totally missing the point. Of course he had to go and he knew it, but is it so difficult to treat employees like men, for example as Brian Burke, Brian Colangelo...do continually under even more scrutiny...

ua-kozak_TFC
03-14-2010, 08:28 PM
I don;t have a problem with RObbo being pushed out, because we have cronin and Deguz there to replace him. So That is the name of the game...
The biggest problem i have more on the managerial side, which goes to show how badly we are being managed. we had the biggest cap space last season.. yet we did f-all with tons of overprized underperforming players leaving no space for a good bench to step in times of injuries...

we are pretty much paying NY to take robbo.. getting a 4th or 3rd pick which everybody knows will not be a factor... Nicely done Mo. How did it go again.. we all hail the Mighty MO...??:facepalm::facepalm:

Beach_Red
03-14-2010, 08:45 PM
You are totally missing the point. Of course he had to go and he knew it, but is it so difficult to treat employees like men, for example as Brian Burke, Brian Colangelo...do continually under even more scrutiny...

But look how much those teams had to go through before those guys were brought in. Remember the whole Dryden-Quinn-Fletcher mess and how many GMs turned down the job? And didn't the NBA have to arrange for Colangelo?

Now, for sure the TFC job looks better today than it did the first year when they offered a one year contract, so there will be more candidates interested than there were then, but it really looks like it's going to take more than just a change in GM.

jazzy
03-14-2010, 09:01 PM
[quote=CretanBull;930009]What you're not seeing is the relationship between treating respected players like shit and being able to improve your team. Players talk. Players follow what and how things happen in this league. It's a small community. Teams develope reputations, which effect (positively or negatively) their ability to attract players to thier club.

Early on our reputation was "top rate facilities, first class organization" now it's "management that can't be trusted, liars"..

+1, It's so obvious, We have NO real history to speak of, so whatever happens since day 1 is our our NEW and fragile history. therefore what is happening now is VERY important. Will this end up defining TFC. We will need many positive things to happen to overcome this presently defining negative history.

billyfly
03-14-2010, 09:10 PM
The worst part about this is they say he wasn't part of the plans but what plans are those? This team looks poor in pre-season and barely anyone new came in. Maybe I'll end up eating these words later if TFC does well this year but as it is right now it looks like they just let a bunch of players go and brought no one substantial in as part of some non-existent plan.

Don't worry about eating your words. You won't have too I fear.

Hitcho
03-14-2010, 10:35 PM
I'd happily contribute to a MO MUST GO giant banner as much as I did for the Dichio thank you banner. Or would it be better to just have a couple of hundred smaller MO MUST GO banners?

I think it's about time we started making the point in the stands. Whatever time he's got left with MLSE can be cut short if we make a big enough noise about it. It's not like he can point to a good sequence of results or a well balanced, carefully crafted squad, is it?

I started this post as a joke, but I would absolutely cough up at least as much as I did for the Dichio banner to a MO MUST GO campaign. Anyone else feel the same way? Time to cut out the poison before it festers even more deeply.

ag futbol
03-14-2010, 10:59 PM
What you're not seeing is the relationship between treating respected players like shit and being able to improve your team. Players talk. Players follow what and how things happen in this league. It's a small community. Teams develope reputations, which effect (positively or negatively) their ability to attract players to thier club.

Thank you. Now if we were actually getting somewhere by being ruthless I might put a stamp on it and send it back. But clearly, even with Mo sinking to low levels he still can't get it together.

andyc
03-14-2010, 11:14 PM
You guys can't miss this...

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=20842

or on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qww7bRbuf8E

Absolute classic KD...

AL-MO
03-14-2010, 11:16 PM
So Mo's boys Brennan and Garcia are still around, and Dichio and Robbo are now gone.

Hmmmmmm.

billyfly
03-14-2010, 11:40 PM
Every time I read the title of this thread I think Humpty Dumpty was pushed man, he was pushed. I can't remember where that is from though.

EDIT: http://humptydumptywaspushed.ca/?cat=1

greatwhitenorf
03-14-2010, 11:49 PM
Surely Preki and Mo aren't entirely to blame for this PR fiasco. They're soccer ops guys, not marketing or PR or community relations guys.

Shouldn't all information regarding Robinson's situation be handled by a skillful, accomplished director of communications for the club? Someone who would form strategy and implement delivery on information about a player's status. Someone who fully understands how the media work and how information needs to be properly treated to avoid embarrasments like this.

Does TFC or MLSE have such a person?

billyfly
03-14-2010, 11:53 PM
I really do think that this year is the year that people will stop showing up. I know most tkts are paid for but I suspect that game day there will be a lot of red visible at BMO (and not b/c its being worn by fans)

CretanBull
03-15-2010, 05:14 AM
Surely Preki and Mo aren't entirely to blame for this PR fiasco. They're soccer ops guys, not marketing or PR or community relations guys.

Shouldn't all information regarding Robinson's situation be handled by a skillful, accomplished director of communications for the club? Someone who would form strategy and implement delivery on information about a player's status. Someone who fully understands how the media work and how information needs to be properly treated to avoid embarrasments like this.

Does TFC or MLSE have such a person?

A PR person or director of communications can only work with what they're given to work with. It appears as if a reporter asked Preki (and Preki was willing to speak) before the club had a chance to make an official statement. Apparently NYRB asked them not to say anything until the deal was finalized on their end. Maybe its a lesson learned for Preki and next time he's asked a question he should defer to the FO and just say "I'm not commenting on that now, the team will issue a press release at the appropriate time."

ensco
03-15-2010, 06:50 AM
If you're tallying up Mo fabrications in the last year, it's more than Dichio, Serioux and Robbo, don't forget the whole "the league doesn't want the coach in the press box" thing with Carver.

Stouffville_RPB
03-15-2010, 07:09 AM
^ and Cummins wife's work permit getting messed up.

CretanBull
03-15-2010, 07:13 AM
If we were to list off all of Mo's lies we'd end up with a thread that would rival the RCT's 841 pages.

bgnewf
03-15-2010, 08:34 AM
Sorry but i have a hard time feeling robbo is so hard done by, making 300G for playing a game he loves. I'm disappointed too to lose one of our originals, but the writing was on the wall from the minute we hired JDG, he knew it (he said so on the Score Footy show in Auygust or somethi9ng last year), the media knew it, we knew it and so did management. I can't see how making a significant move to improve the clubs talent level is such a black mark.

Preki inherited the situation and was honest and straightforward about it. It was a cap issue and Robbo knew it and choose to prepare for it. It's business and Mo's screw up was probably just signing him for 300G in the first place.


The on field stuff is not the only issue. The way Robinson was treated, plus how the club botched the announcement are just as important for the future of the club.

Professional players talk to one another. Professional players can read. Reputation means a lot.

So with Mo passing all "football related" issues to Preki is his only role to be the designated asshole for the club? It certainly appears that way to me. I can't think of a single player leaving our club that has been given a professional send off. I am not talking about testimonial games for every player, but at least a press release thanking them for their service is not too much to ask is it?? I also can't think of a single former TFC player that has ever gone out of their way to praise the management of our club after they have left.

I have the sinking feeling that our name is mud in this league when it comes to a lot of the players. Amenities and fan support can only go so far.

bgnewf
03-15-2010, 08:43 AM
Surely Preki and Mo aren't entirely to blame for this PR fiasco. They're soccer ops guys, not marketing or PR or community relations guys.

Shouldn't all information regarding Robinson's situation be handled by a skillful, accomplished director of communications for the club? Someone who would form strategy and implement delivery on information about a player's status. Someone who fully understands how the media work and how information needs to be properly treated to avoid embarrasments like this.

Does TFC or MLSE have such a person?

I have been quite critical of Michelle and the PR department of TFC in the past. But with due respect to her she is not going to be proactively putting information out there without Mo telling her to do so. For all we know she knows better and she is running down the halls at BMO screaming that she is not being allowed to do her work.

The most direct way for a PR person to get to the unemployment line is to put out information without the permission of the boss.

She does not set policy, she only carries it out.

Toronto_Bhoy
03-15-2010, 08:51 AM
Mo…a liar???

Surely not…

bgnewf
03-15-2010, 08:56 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qww7bRbuf8E&feature=player_embedded

And the NEE has decided how they feel. Pretty damned funny if you ask me.

olegunnar
03-15-2010, 09:16 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qww7bRbuf8E&feature=player_embedded

And the NEE has decided how they feel. Pretty damned funny if you ask me.

King Dave is his own supporter's group. An army of one.

Didn't you see the MLSE e-booklet put together for the MLS cup bid?

There are 5 supporters groups.

NEE, TRN, RPB, your group and King Dave.

Roogsy
03-15-2010, 09:18 AM
I have been quite critical of Michelle and the PR department of TFC in the past. But with due respect to her she is not going to be proactively putting information out there without Mo telling her to do so. For all we know she knows better and she is running down the halls at BMO screaming that she is not being allowed to do her work.

The most direct way for a PR person to get to the unemployment line is to put out information without the permission of the boss.

She does not set policy, she only carries it out.

I'd have to agree with this. We do give Michelle a lot of grief (many times rightly so) but much of it (if not most of it) has to do with directions she is getting from those where the news originates...what's the old saying? Don't shoot the messenger?

Waggy
03-15-2010, 09:18 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qww7bRbuf8E&feature=player_embedded

And the NEE has decided how they feel. Pretty damned funny if you ask me.

Thats where amazing happened

Beach_Red
03-15-2010, 09:46 AM
So Mo's boys Brennan and Garcia are still around, and Dichio and Robbo are now gone.

Hmmmmmm.

Dichio's still here.

DangerRed
03-15-2010, 10:03 AM
Mo lied - no shock. But Preki lied - that's terrible. If you're a player, is your morale feeling hot right now?

But if we win, no one will care about this, right? Well, we will not, in all likelihood, be winning anything the way the team has performed. This isn't helping.

My question is this: if you're a problem to the team -- you lack skill, are too old, or are a locker-room cancer, you get tossed. Why doesn't the same apply to Mo?

Section 117
03-15-2010, 10:04 AM
^^^ Cause Mo is in charge that is why ^^^

Shaughno
03-15-2010, 10:07 AM
Preki lied? Are you positive? Or did he just spew what he was told, without knowing the prior situation.

drewski
03-15-2010, 10:21 AM
Preki lied? Are you positive? Or did he just spew what he was told, without knowing the prior situation.

either way it doesn't make Preki look good. Either he lied or he's so out of the loop he doesn't know any better.

bgnewf
03-15-2010, 10:51 AM
Preki lied? Are you positive? Or did he just spew what he was told, without knowing the prior situation.


Deception or ignorance are neither qualities you want in a manager.

Shaughno
03-15-2010, 10:55 AM
either way it doesn't make Preki look good. Either he lied or he's so out of the loop he doesn't know any better.


Deception or ignorance are neither qualities you want in a manager.


I don't disagree, but we know how Mo works...

Do you really expect Preki to dig into the club's past and find out who's had problems with each other, with Mo, etc.?

I'm not saying he didn't know better, but there's just as good of a chance that Preki was put in the same position as our former managers... where he was basically a sock puppet of a spokesman.

Beach_Red
03-15-2010, 11:09 AM
I don't disagree, but we know how Mo works...

Do you really expect Preki to dig into the club's past and find out who's had problems with each other, with Mo, etc.?

I'm not saying he didn't know better, but there's just as good of a chance that Preki was put in the same position as our former managers... where he was basically a sock puppet of a spokesman.


Well, let's hope so because if the team doesn't make the playoffs the job will be Preki's....

JonO
03-15-2010, 11:19 AM
Deception or ignorance are neither qualities you want in a manager.
I hate getting into these arguments, but it could be neither deception nor ignorance. Could be the truth that by the time Preki was in the picture, Robbo wanted out...

Yohan
03-15-2010, 11:38 AM
Yeah but he said himself that he was told back in November that he wasn't in TFC's future plans. He knew that they were looking to move him. Hardly hung out to dry.

exactly what could have Robbo done?

if my understanding of convoluted MLS rules serves me correctly, even if Robbo negotiated a mutual termination of contract deal, TFC would still take a cap hit.

so otherwise, Mo wouldn't let Robbo go, unless Mo could trade or sell Robbo to somebody, in order to remove Robbo's salary from the cap.

kinda shitty when your future is in the hands of Mo (boy, am I turning into quite a Mo hater)

Shaughno
03-15-2010, 11:59 AM
I hate getting into these arguments, but it could be neither deception nor ignorance. Could be the truth that by the time Preki was in the picture, Robbo wanted out...


Which is what, IMO, seems the most logical situation of the lot. Especially given that Robbo was 'outed' from the team in November.

Oblio2
03-15-2010, 12:00 PM
Howevere you fall on the debate of Robbo stays or should go...he deserved to be treated better and players talk. Mo is killing us....

Chevy
03-15-2010, 12:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qww7bRbuf8E&feature=player_embedded

And the NEE has decided how they feel. Pretty damned funny if you ask me.

that dude is LOUD.

Redpunkfiddle
03-15-2010, 12:06 PM
that dude is LOUD.

Clearly he speaks from the diaphram.

bgnewf
03-15-2010, 12:15 PM
Sounds to me that the one and only "sin" Robinson ever committed as a TFC player was signing his contract. And he did not twist the arms of the team to offer it.

Shaughno
03-15-2010, 12:18 PM
Sounds to me that the one and only "sin" Robinson ever committed as a TFC player was signing his contract. And he did not twist the arms of the team to offer it.


No fault on Robbo's part. They offered him a lucrative contract to lure him over here in the first place.

They asked him to renew his contract at a slightly lower salary (-30k base), and he did.

dow117
03-15-2010, 12:33 PM
MLSE is typical corporate Toronto, I lost my job after 28 years. Its not the job loss that is the worst part ( though that is a problem ) ; its the way it was handled. Don't absolve Preki or Mo ; they had some choices on how this could have been handled but Corporations have a way of making us into "yes" men. In fact, they give you a script " Nothing personal - its just business " - Bullshit ..Carl was treated disrespectfully !

AL-MO
03-15-2010, 01:30 PM
Dichio's still here.

LOL

Last time I checked he wasn't playing. But I could be wrong.

BuSaPuNk
03-15-2010, 01:39 PM
The on field stuff is not the only issue. The way Robinson was treated, plus how the club botched the announcement are just as important for the future of the club.

Professional players talk to one another. Professional players can read. Reputation means a lot.

So with Mo passing all "football related" issues to Preki is his only role to be the designated asshole for the club? It certainly appears that way to me. I can't think of a single player leaving our club that has been given a professional send off. I am not talking about testimonial games for every player, but at least a press release thanking them for their service is not too much to ask is it?? I also can't think of a single former TFC player that has ever gone out of their way to praise the management of our club after they have left.

I have the sinking feeling that our name is mud in this league when it comes to a lot of the players. Amenities and fan support can only go so far.


Seriously. All Mo needs to do is call up his fellow MLSE cohort Burke. He knows how to handle that. He's thanked everyone that has been on the team thats been traded. Even players that were gone before he got here.

That is class.

Boondaddy
03-15-2010, 02:31 PM
^exactly. Still cannot believe this treatment....or lack thereof.

Northern Soul
03-15-2010, 03:27 PM
I've supported Mo in the past (not because I didn't know he was a slimy bastard, but because I didn't care). Now, he's done nothing to improve the team, and it appears that his business ways are putting players off. We can't have that. Mo's gotta go.

P-NUTZ
03-19-2010, 10:35 AM
I don't like how he's treating the fans. Things are real hush hush over there and it appears he's scrambling to "clean up" his messes. I think Preki can make something work this year. Other than Garcia, i think our defence is going to be much better. Bigger, faster, younger and stronger. Hope allesandro signs. Scoring is still going to be tuff, but all things said this WILL be a harder working and more physical team. better D for sure. Mo will make another big move in signing someone as this is his last year to sort this out. I wonder who. and what collateral damage might still come along the way.....

P-NUTZ
03-19-2010, 10:38 AM
I want a tuffer, harder working team. A team others don't look forward to playing against (but not because of red cards). If this happens and we get more wins and the playoffs I dont care how they go about it.

Davenport
03-19-2010, 10:46 AM
Johnston's a useless, classless tool.
He's the one that needs to get shipped out.

bgnewf
03-19-2010, 10:47 AM
Winning ugly is still winning, I agree. And based on what I have seen so far winning ugly will be how a Preki team is set up.

However instituting and implementing a philosophy for a club to play are two seperate things. Players are not going to necessarily buy into what management is trying to implement on the pitch and on the training ground if they do not respect the way the club treats its players.

Beach_Red
03-19-2010, 11:04 AM
Winning ugly is still winning, I agree. And based on what I have seen so far winning ugly will be how a Preki team is set up.

However instituting and implementing a philosophy for a club to play are two seperate things. Players are not going to necessarily buy into what management is trying to implement on the pitch and on the training ground if they do not respect the way the club treats its players.


Sure, but the players can't run the team, either. Last year this team had a divided dressing room and in the biggest game of the year (the last one) they didn't bother to show up.

Sure, management is a problem, coaching is a problem, the PR department is a problem (on this forum everything about the team is a problem) so it needed to be blown up. It could have been blown up a little more "respectfully," but big changes needed to be made and Preki is making them.

Oldtimer
03-19-2010, 11:46 AM
Winning ugly is still winning, I agree. And based on what I have seen so far winning ugly will be how a Preki team is set up.



Based on some of the players that Mo has saddled Preki with, I'd say that losing ugly is what we're going to see a lot of this year.

Pachuco
03-19-2010, 12:29 PM
Sure, but the players can't run the team, either. Last year this team had a divided dressing room and in the biggest game of the year (the last one) they didn't bother to show up.

Sure, management is a problem, coaching is a problem, the PR department is a problem (on this forum everything about the team is a problem) so it needed to be blown up. It could have been blown up a little more "respectfully," but big changes needed to be made and Preki is making them.

If by blown up you mean fire everyone and don't hire anyone to replace them then that's not what this team needed. When Burke blew up the Leafs, he still got players in return plus he could rely on Marlies players as well.

You can't blow up an MLS team without replacing the players because there is no farm team to depend on.

Pookie
03-19-2010, 01:08 PM
Johnston's a useless, classless tool.
He's the one that needs to get shipped out.

All depends on how you want to spin this.

Privately, Mo gave the player an extended contract (guaranteed?) and 4 months notice (prior to a transfer window). I would think that is more than fair in any employment circumstance. Robinson was never in the dark as to where he stood with the team.

I really don't care what he said publicly to us. There is probably truth on both sides.

I imagine when told about his reduced role, Robinson likely replied that he wanted to pursue his career elsewhere and asked to be moved.

Is Mo lying if he says Robinson wanted out? There is some truth to that. Of course it isn't the full picture but no manager in any sport is completely up front with the public on all aspects of team business. Not one.

The only thing that matters is the conversation between player and manager. Apparently, that was done with honesty and handled with respect to Robinson as a new home was found and we are apparently paying some of the salary vs releasing him.

jazzy
03-19-2010, 07:30 PM
Based on some of the players that Mo has saddled Preki with, I'd say that losing ugly is what we're going to see a lot of this year.

+1, one has the feeling that the invisible unspoken slow boil of ALL our previous coach's has to do with MO's inability to deliver the goods, when they were promised otherwise, and because they were friends?(sic), they had to much class to say it in public, generally

Dbl_D
03-20-2010, 12:49 PM
all i will say is we better win our home opener against Philly or Moe's head should roll... or at least he should burn in effigy...

druid
03-20-2010, 03:43 PM
I feel bad for Robinson but he was always going to be a casualty of the JDG deal.

TFC let him know early and they didn't leave him in any doubt as to what was going on. That's professional and that is a kind of respect. After the fact all the noise coming from the club pointed to no blame issues: cap, Robbo wanted a change, etc. Again, that's professional. TFC isn't saying that Robbo is shite compared to JDG so we're dumping him.

From Robbo's point of view, he wanted to end his career here and that didn't happen. He's hurt, which shows his depth of feeling for the club and city but that's not really TFC's fault. And while I'm sad that Robbo is gone, we've got enough real Mo issues without making stuff up.

I would like us to give Robbo a proper goodbye but I hope the support focus good energy on Robbo rather than bad energy at the club. We should save that for another day.