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111_DrummerBoy
03-11-2010, 05:04 PM
MLS players have voted overwhelmingly in favor of a strike if a collective bargaining agreement with the league is not reached in time for the season openers in two weeks, the Insider has learned.

In a written vote, more than 350 players supported a strike and only two opposed it, a source close to the situation said.

Heard this on the news on the way home.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/soccerinsider/2010/03/mls_players_prepared_to_strike.html

This can't be good. I think the players striking has a bit more weight than a lockout. If the players strike and the league folds, some/half/most of them will find work in small leagues else where. Bad news over all for NA soccer though.

Whoop
03-11-2010, 05:05 PM
And the line in the sand has been drawn...

Voodooman
03-11-2010, 05:10 PM
Cmon league, give the players the CBA. This could destroy the league if you don't

Shaughno
03-11-2010, 05:11 PM
And the line in the sand has been drawn...


Ricky... you cross that line and you're going to jail.

Good! I wanna go back to fuckin' jail, at least it's warm and there's good dope!

daner90
03-11-2010, 05:17 PM
fuck, well I guess this was bound to happen based on the news we had been hearing but it still sucks

Broadview
03-11-2010, 05:19 PM
I'm going to assume there will be a strike, then if the season starts on time it'll be a happy surprise.

lips
03-11-2010, 05:19 PM
I hope that they come to an agreement . it don't look good though. Yes this could ruin the league.

OneLoveOneEric
03-11-2010, 05:20 PM
Well, it's still all posturing at this point, but if the season doesn't start and stays shut for any meaningful amount of time, bye bye MLS.

AL-MO
03-11-2010, 05:23 PM
FUCK...

This CBA BS is a major buzzkill on a lot of things.

rocker
03-11-2010, 05:28 PM
all unions do this before a strike date... I've been involved in many of these... they do a "show of force" vote that's supposed to show management that the workers are united. It gives the bargaining team more power at the table. it also authorizes the union leadership to say on the 25th, "ok, we're striking.. bye" without having to go back to the players and ask them for permission.

TFC07
03-11-2010, 05:28 PM
Heard this on the news on the way home.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/soccerinsider/2010/03/mls_players_prepared_to_strike.html

This can't be good. I think the players striking has a bit more weight than a lockout. If the players strike and the league folds, some/half/most of them will find work in small leagues else where. Bad news over all for NA soccer though.

Well then, Toronto FC can join new north american soccer league (NASL)

Red Rat
03-11-2010, 05:33 PM
I think that this is a reality now, I hope that it doesn't last long.
At least we have Champions League and World cup to keep us entertained.

shit

Toronto Gunner
03-11-2010, 05:41 PM
I'm glad that they waited until I sent an EMT for the boston tickets before confirming... looks like I might be out $150...

Red Rat
03-11-2010, 05:43 PM
I'm glad that they waited until I sent an EMT for the boston tickets before confirming... looks like I might be out $150...
if tickets haven't been purchased yet then we should get it back.

rr

InDa_110
03-11-2010, 05:49 PM
Voting in favour of a strike is just part of the process.

Don't worry. Absolute worst case scenario is opening night and the weekend of the 27th don't happen, come the week of the 29th everyone shits their pants and there's a resolution by Easter weekend.

I really don't believe it will come to that. I'll bet you there's an 11th hour deal on Wednesday night the 24th. Look at the kick in the nuts baseball took in '94, and thats the American past time. The owners, MLS and the players all know a prolonged strike sinks the league, and thats not going to happen.

Everyone have a beer, relax, let them stare each other down, because I promise you someone will blink before the end of the month at the very latest.

Parkdale
03-11-2010, 05:51 PM
I'm going to Boston even if there's a strike.

http://www.nba.com/celtics/promotions/postgame-party-schedule.html

^ and maybe I'll go check out a Celtics game and their post game party.

hahahahahha... sigh.

Nuvinho
03-11-2010, 05:59 PM
which 2 members voted against the strike? Now that would be fun to see who.

Red CB Toronto
03-11-2010, 05:59 PM
Why can't FIFA step in and fix this bs that is the MLS, every other player in the world has freedom, why in gods name would you ever sign to play in North America with the contracts are handled, if you are a mid range player playing in the NASL is a much better deal, at least your contarct is with the team and not the league.

Whoop
03-11-2010, 06:19 PM
FUCK...

This CBA BS is a major buzzkill on a lot of things.

You said it.

Whoop
03-11-2010, 06:20 PM
A strike of any significant length = bye, bye MLS

canadian_bhoy
03-11-2010, 06:24 PM
You think 20,000 people will show up for a season long supporters cup?

Batman
03-11-2010, 06:25 PM
which 2 members voted against the strike? Now that would be fun to see who.

Beckham? Landycakes?

Inquiring minds want to know!

MUFC_Niagara
03-11-2010, 06:28 PM
Meh, United play until May. The World Cup is June to July and then United is back in July and are likely coming to NA which means a road trip!. I'm not losing sleep over it. If the players and the league want to fuck themselves over then go right ahead.

FluSH
03-11-2010, 06:28 PM
Cmon league, give the players the CBA. This could destroy the league if you don't

The League will be done...

World Cup year... MLS should have been thinking about opportunities... instead... they will be forgotten.

MUFC_Niagara
03-11-2010, 06:29 PM
Beckham? Landycakes?

Inquiring minds want to know!

They were probably both paying the other players to vote yes so they could extend their respective loan spells.

nascarguy
03-11-2010, 06:36 PM
ok so when I come back from SC. I'll could be getting my money back and sending it to the tiger cats.

TFC Via Buffalo
03-11-2010, 06:38 PM
I'm going home from work in about 25 mins and I'm going to go run over the first group of old people I find. THIS SUCKS!!!!! I guess I'll just get my fill of Canada by looking out my window at work and coming up for Blue Jays games. :rolleyes:

Super
03-11-2010, 06:45 PM
I still can't imagine that the League would be stupid enough to kill the league over this issue.

Quite frankly, the next time I hear them talk about the "dangers of getting rid of the salary cap" I'm going to go through the roof - especially since they're playing a game right now that could tank the entire league over issues that quite frankly is a disgrace to this league. Apparently the MLS execs are not too concerned about the health and survival of the MLS.

NF-FC
03-11-2010, 06:54 PM
Crash and burn MLS, crash and burn!

Beach_Red
03-11-2010, 07:19 PM
I still can't imagine that the League would be stupid enough to kill the league over this issue.

Quite frankly, the next time I hear them talk about the "dangers of getting rid of the salary cap" I'm going to go through the roof - especially since they're playing a game right now that could tank the entire league over issues that quite frankly is a disgrace to this league. Apparently the MLS execs are not too concerned about the health and survival of the MLS.


It's good to get this done now. It seems that there were some people who invested in the league because it had fixed costs and they would never be involved in bidding wars. But new members have joined the league who see more potential, but know they have to spend more to make more.

Some investors are 'glass half-empty' types and some are 'glass half-full' types.

It might be better in the long run for MLS to fold and for the glass half-full types to start a new league with proper rules. Maybe the MLS structure the way it was, was necessary to prime the investment pump into soccer, so to speak, but it's time to move past that.

Which teams would he league lose?

MUFC_Niagara
03-11-2010, 07:20 PM
Seriously, what did we expect with this guy running the show?

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/picture.php?albumid=358&pictureid=2233

Mark in Ottawa
03-11-2010, 08:01 PM
which 2 members voted against the strike? Now that would be fun to see who.
Obviously two players who feel they couldn't get a contract elsewhere paying them as well as MLS.

Red Rat
03-11-2010, 08:16 PM
Seriously, what did we expect with this guy running the show?

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/picture.php?albumid=358&pictureid=2233

this should be a banner..

rr

TFCRegina
03-11-2010, 08:28 PM
The League will be done...

World Cup year... MLS should have been thinking about opportunities... instead... they will be forgotten.

Stupid business management. The boost from a successful world cup would have been huge. The management needs to do some serious thinking about whether they want to throw all that invested cash down the drain or if they want to take advantage of what could be US Soccer's biggest year.

billyfly
03-11-2010, 08:31 PM
Its just a delay so they can finish the North Stand and install the grass.

Super
03-11-2010, 08:49 PM
It's good to get this done now. It seems that there were some people who invested in the league because it had fixed costs and they would never be involved in bidding wars. But new members have joined the league who see more potential, but know they have to spend more to make more.

Some investors are 'glass half-empty' types and some are 'glass half-full' types.

It might be better in the long run for MLS to fold and for the glass half-full types to start a new league with proper rules. Maybe the MLS structure the way it was, was necessary to prime the investment pump into soccer, so to speak, but it's time to move past that.

Which teams would he league lose?

Well, it's certainly a very real possibility that the league will fold and we will join a new one. If we do, I hope it will be run like any other league in the world, and that we'll have big, medium and small clubs. That's what I grew up, and that's the type of football competition I'm the most comfortable with in the end. The MLS as it is right now is just a little too plastic and franchise'y for me to truly get into - beyond simply supporting TFC. I'd like to see a league where the results were less random (thanks to all the parity) - would be more fun to watch the other games if that were indeed the case.

Gixmo
03-11-2010, 09:14 PM
this should be a banner..

rr

Duly noted!

A strike, while understood, is the potentially fatal blow for the league.

Let's strike over Columbus, be ready for Boston.. Do not fudge the home opener up, I had to bend some serious favors to get Thursday off....

James17930
03-11-2010, 09:26 PM
Finally.

Now something will actually get done.

111_DrummerBoy
03-11-2010, 09:30 PM
Does anyone know the reason why the league wants to maintain so much control? The real reason. They keep saying they want to ensure the league survives and not make the same mistakes as the original NASL. Which is a good idea, this league is still young. There is a lot of comparison of MLS to leagues around the world. But soccer in North America isn't the same like the rest of the world. It needs a lot more nurturing than we realize. Most of us on this board, and even other MLS supporters were already footy fans. For MLS (or any soccer league for that matter) to survive, they need to develop new support for the game. There is probably a lot of business here we don't understand.

As a fan, all I really care about is the season is a go.

ensco
03-11-2010, 09:44 PM
This is a positive development. The players are not pursuing a path designed to inflict maximum damage.

The league said they wouldn't lock the players out. While this had benefit of firming up their legal position vis-a-vis any future challenge to the "single entity", it really strengthened the player's position in the short run, because it gave the players the ability to strike at a time of their choosing.

The players can walk out two weeks into the season, or after the WC break, ie at a point where they could really hurt the league. By going out before the season starts, they minimize the damage to the brand.

Beach_Red
03-11-2010, 09:45 PM
Well, it's certainly a very real possibility that the league will fold and we will join a new one. If we do, I hope it will be run like any other league in the world, and that we'll have big, medium and small clubs. That's what I grew up, and that's the type of football competition I'm the most comfortable with in the end. The MLS as it is right now is just a little too plastic and franchise'y for me to truly get into - beyond simply supporting TFC. I'd like to see a league where the results were less random (thanks to all the parity) - would be more fun to watch the other games if that were indeed the case.

Yes, that's exactly the problem. The league is set up like a franchise business, like Mcdonalds or something, where every franchise is supposed to be the same.

That set-up can work for cheap fast-food where knowing what you're going to get at every franchise in the world is a big factor in choosing to eat there (because it certainly isn't the quality of the food ;)), I hope that it can't be replicated in something like a sports team. It would mean every city is exactly the same. I suppose we're heading towards that kind of homoginized, plastic world but it would be better if something held out against it.

Heart of Stone
03-11-2010, 09:45 PM
The Reds say: To each according to their need; from each according to their ability.

Belfast_Boy
03-11-2010, 10:04 PM
I think any disruption in the season will harm football. whether it's a strike or a lock out it doesn't matter. this will damage TFC and this league. there's no room for errors here, soccer doesn't have the roots hockey does. just ask the Blizzard and NASL.

and it's a World Cup year...... i can see newbies not getting it but FFS this is a golden opportunity.

Redcoe15
03-11-2010, 10:15 PM
:willy_nilly:

CretanBull
03-11-2010, 10:17 PM
The league needs to maintain some kind of responsible financial structure, but the players aren't making outrageous demands. The NASL boogy-man is a joke...no one is suggesting that the MLS teams should go after the modern day versions of Beckenbauer, Cruyff etc. and stack them all on one team. They're asking for a very modest raise to the salary cap, a raise to the minimum salary, the right to sign with a new team if you get let go by your current team, and guaranteed contracts for vetran players. If the players get everything that they're asking for, this is still going to be a bush league! If there are teams that can't afford what the players are asking for, then its time to move some franchises because if they can't afford what's being asked for now they're NEVER going to be able to afford the future.

onemanbarmyarmy
03-11-2010, 10:20 PM
I still can't imagine that the League would be stupid enough to kill the league over this issue.

Quite frankly, the next time I hear them talk about the "dangers of getting rid of the salary cap" I'm going to go through the roof - especially since they're playing a game right now that could tank the entire league over issues that quite frankly is a disgrace to this league. Apparently the MLS execs are not too concerned about the health and survival of the MLS.
Yeah, they fu*k'd it.

s2cazz
03-11-2010, 10:41 PM
We need to relax. There will be a season. If they do strike it won't last long. It will just delay the season. Besides some of these guys are paid less than the migrant farm workers in this country. I gotta say I'm behind them. And I support them all the way.

s2cazz
03-11-2010, 10:44 PM
The league needs to maintain some kind of responsible financial structure, but the players aren't making outrageous demands. The NASL boogy-man is a joke...no one is suggesting that the MLS teams should go after the modern day versions of Beckenbauer, Cruyff etc. and stack them all on one team. They're asking for a very modest raise to the salary cap, a raise to the minimum salary, the right to sign with a new team if you get let go by your current team, and guaranteed contracts for vetran players. If the players get everything that they're asking for, this is still going to be a bush league! If there are teams that can't afford what the players are asking for, then its time to move some franchises because if they can't afford what's being asked for now they're NEVER going to be able to afford the future.

Well said! Someone get Garber on the line and let this man talk to him.

Inklink
03-11-2010, 10:53 PM
League starts building some momentum and popularity. Sounds like the perfect time to **** yourself!

barca99
03-11-2010, 11:07 PM
The league needs to maintain some kind of responsible financial structure, but the players aren't making outrageous demands. The NASL boogy-man is a joke...no one is suggesting that the MLS teams should go after the modern day versions of Beckenbauer, Cruyff etc. and stack them all on one team. They're asking for a very modest raise to the salary cap, a raise to the minimum salary, the right to sign with a new team if you get let go by your current team, and guaranteed contracts for vetran players. If the players get everything that they're asking for, this is still going to be a bush league! If there are teams that can't afford what the players are asking for, then its time to move some franchises because if they can't afford what's being asked for now they're NEVER going to be able to afford the future.

To me this is a huge issue. Some of the entry level contracts are a joke. Remember that bit about the NYRB players living in squalor last year... gimme a break, this deal needs to get done, the league is better than this.

Heart of Stone
03-11-2010, 11:08 PM
Will they picket in front of BMO? Picket-line violence... a possibility?

Could there be scabs?

barca99
03-11-2010, 11:09 PM
Also, I'm surprised there's no Quebec team getting screwed over by this... Remember when the Expos were in 1st place... strike. Remember when the Nordiques were becoming a contender... move and THEN win the cup! Funny for me, but not for them!

Juanito
03-11-2010, 11:46 PM
The players have to do what they have to do. People's livelihood are at stake. I can't believe that they would allow a CBA to expire in a World Cup year. That's just poor timing.

Whoop
03-12-2010, 12:02 AM
From Ives...

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2010/03/mls-and-players-union-address-latest-strike-talk.html



As you would expect, Major League Soccer responded to recent comments from players about the state of MLS labor negotiations, as well as a report of a vote in favor of a strike. And as you would expect, the players union responded to that response.
Here is MLS president Mark Abbott, speaking to SBI:

"The meetings this week were productive and we have scheduled a number of additional meetings.
"The players comments do not accurately reflect the proposals that we have made to address the players concerns or the productive nature of the discussions beteween MLS and the union."

Here is the response from Players Union chief Bob Foose via a written release:

“Recent comments from players simply reflect the fact that the players are unified and, per the results of our strike vote, will not begin the new season if a new agreement with the league is not reached. This is not a change in position by the Union and should not be read to reflect in any way upon what has, or has not, occurred this week in the meetings with the mediator and the league.”

koryo
03-12-2010, 08:46 AM
The players are fully in the right to strike it if comes down to it. I would rather see MLS die and a breakaway league established that runs on principles of competition instead of the lowest common denominator.

When it gets down it, the players are only asking for a decent living wage for its young, a bit of security for its old and the right to work for all.

Oldtimer
03-12-2010, 08:57 AM
If the league dies, don't fool yourself. TFC will die with it, just like the well-supported Blizzard died after the NASL folded. Bobo McClown will crow over the death of soccer. Investors will shun ever investing in this sport for another generation. It will be the end of a dream.

No, we can't have the MLS die and expect to see top flight footie in this nation.

What would be better would be a reform of how MLS does things.

Don't forget, the Bundesliga started out with nearly as many roster/salary restrictions as MLS has. That system lasted for years, but eventually got repealed. Now they only have individual team caps restricting salaries to a percentage of a team's revenue to prevent over-spending and debt. Change can happen, it happened in Germany, it can happen in North America.

Beach_Red
03-12-2010, 09:52 AM
If the league dies, don't fool yourself. TFC will die with it, just like the well-supported Blizzard died after the NASL folded. Bobo McClown will crow over the death of soccer. Investors will shun ever investing in this sport for another generation. It will be the end of a dream.

No, we can't have the MLS die and expect to see top flight footie in this nation.

What would be better would be a reform of how MLS does things.

Don't forget, the Bundesliga started out with nearly as many roster/salary restrictions as MLS has. That system lasted for years, but eventually got repealed. Now they only have individual team caps restricting salaries to a percentage of a team's revenue to prevent over-spending and debt. Change can happen, it happened in Germany, it can happen in North America.


Yes, you're probably right. But it is a little different this time because some investors managed to get soccer stadiums built and there does seem to be a market for soccer in some cities and where there are buyers there are sellers.

The players aren't even asking for the end of the salary cap, they really have reasonable demands that some investors/owners should recognize as being reasonable.

I_AM_CANADIAN
03-12-2010, 10:27 AM
Cmon league, give the players the CBA.
Agreed.

ag futbol
03-12-2010, 01:56 PM
The league needs to maintain some kind of responsible financial structure, but the players aren't making outrageous demands. The NASL boogy-man is a joke...no one is suggesting that the MLS teams should go after the modern day versions of Beckenbauer, Cruyff etc. and stack them all on one team. They're asking for a very modest raise to the salary cap, a raise to the minimum salary, the right to sign with a new team if you get let go by your current team, and guaranteed contracts for vetran players. If the players get everything that they're asking for, this is still going to be a bush league! If there are teams that can't afford what the players are asking for, then its time to move some franchises because if they can't afford what's being asked for now they're NEVER going to be able to afford the future.
Thank you +1. Funny how people forget how the weak franchises in NASL helped sink the ship. Should we really tie our fortunes to the weakest links.

As you said, some teams in this league (short of a miracle) are never going to get there. The business model as it stands right now does not work, it`s a formula for the weak to lose a small amount of money over time, but it gives them no incentive to improve.

Beach_Red
03-12-2010, 03:48 PM
Thank you +1. Funny how people forget how the weak franchises in NASL helped sink the ship. Should we really tie our fortunes to the weakest links.

As you said, some teams in this league (short of a miracle) are never going to get there. The business model as it stands right now does not work, it`s a formula for the weak to lose a small amount of money over time, but it gives them no incentive to improve.


The NHL has been propping up weak franchises since it first expanded in '67 because the TV networks claimed they needed a "national footprint" for a deal. I wonder how big a factor a TV deal is for some of these MLS decisions.

Boondaddy
03-12-2010, 04:20 PM
the strike announcement is a necessary evil really....the league won't do anything about it otherwise. From what I understand, it's normal procedure.

This is a good thing....maybe now the league will really get serious and work this shit out in time....at least an agreement in principle.

S_D
03-12-2010, 04:36 PM
I think the limited free agency is an absoute load of rubbish. They have a hard cap. NFL and NHL can have full free agency and still manage to fit the players they need under the cap. Yeah sure some teams make bad contracts, but that is part of the competition. Which GM is the smartest at building a team.

What the MLS is saying is we don't trust the GM's in the league to make sensible contracts so we are going to limit what the players can do, to make sure that the GM's can't mess up too badly.

prizby
03-12-2010, 05:13 PM
what i don't get is how the bosman ruling does not apply to the MLS

yes i understand it is a European ruling for the European union countries, but

lets say I am a GM plant worker and I get laid off. There is nothing stopping me from starting to work for Honda...does the MLS have legal grounds? (they did fight this before didn't they and won?)

this is dumb

rocker
03-12-2010, 05:45 PM
I think the limited free agency is an absoute load of rubbish. They have a hard cap. NFL and NHL can have full free agency and still manage to fit the players they need under the cap. Yeah sure some teams make bad contracts, but that is part of the competition. Which GM is the smartest at building a team.

What the MLS is saying is we don't trust the GM's in the league to make sensible contracts so we are going to limit what the players can do, to make sure that the GM's can't mess up too badly.

Absolute free agency just can't happen in single entity -- the players don't have independent teams to use to create a bidding war. MLS always issues the contracts so they could never trust MLS to allow the franchises to "bid" on players. Even if MLS came up with some bidding system, the actual amount of $$$ teams have left to spend would be unknown to the players. As well, a player "offered" 50K by Chicago and 40K by NYRB wouldn't know if the 50K was really the highest teams were capable of offering. MLS could just fudge the bids....... so no absolute free agency can exist.

If the players are arguing MLS should cease to be single entity, then they are foolish and will never win. Usually in negotiations you go for incremental gains. Changing the league from single entity to an old fashioned independent team system would not be negotiable in the second contract ever between the two sides. I'm not even sure I agree that it would ever be negotiable, because MLS owns the trademarks of the teams, I believe. The breakup of this would be something very difficult and would be something only the owners could decide -- not the players who don't own the teams.


When it gets down it, the players are only asking for a decent living wage for its young, a bit of security for its old and the right to work for all.

What are the positions of the players union on salaries? I have no seen any details yet. For all we know, the players may not be asking for anything new on salaries (MLS may have capitulated on the salary floor). I'm frustrated that this "we won't negotiate in the public" rule means no info is released for fans to make a decision on who to side with. For example, if the players were saying "we want the floor set at 100K" then I'd think they're probably crazy. But even Taylor Twellman said this negotiation has not been about money but rights.

rocker
03-12-2010, 06:05 PM
I just found a blog entry from Buzz at 3rd degree that provides some details I'm looking for... also makes an interesting case about MLS and its strike position:

http://www.3rddegree.net/2010/03/12/120-fahrenheit-why-i-think-a-strike-by-mls-players-wont-be-effective/comment-page-1/#comment-27517

Alixir
03-12-2010, 06:24 PM
Unions can piss off. I have worked for unionized companies and they are quick to take your dues but when you need them in your corner they are never there. Unions have no place in sports in my opinion. These Athletes make enough as it is, but they have to use thier unions to strong arm more cash. Unions are a tool of greed.

Cashcleaner
03-12-2010, 06:27 PM
^ Tools of greed, indeed. Completely unlike the lovable upstanding owners who operate their clubs out of the goodness of their hearts and the love of the sport in it's purest form.

Alixir
03-12-2010, 06:29 PM
^ Tools of greed, indeed. Completely unlike the lovable upstanding owners who operate their clubs out of the goodness of their hearts and the love of the sport in it's purest form.Not saying the owners are any better....but ticket sales do go up when player salaries go up.

Cashcleaner
03-12-2010, 06:42 PM
^ And ticket sales go up when they stay level as well.

Look, I know what you're getting at and I agree that as a whole, professional athletes are generally well-compensated and looked-after by their various unions and trade associations. In the case of MLS, however, things are much different. Look at the league minimum salary - it's what? 33,000 35,000? That's peanuts! And if I recall correctly, developmental players only get 13,000 in compensation - though I'll admit their status is more complicated than other players. But it's not even that. There are legitimate security concerns stemming from the fact that teams can't charter flights to and from games. The grievances between the players and league isn't as straightforward as simple compensation.

Personally, if I'm to take sides in this issue, I'd take the position of the players over that of the owners.

Alixir
03-12-2010, 06:49 PM
either way a strike could be devastating to an already fragile league.

Cashcleaner
03-12-2010, 06:59 PM
^ For sure. Yeah, we're all basically fucked if there's no season.

And think about what could happen with Vancouver and Portland? The clubs and their communities have committed a lot of money for their MLS franchises. They must be collectively shitting themselves now.

Alixir
03-12-2010, 07:01 PM
shit I forgot all about that.

troy1982
03-12-2010, 07:19 PM
what i don't get is how the bosman ruling does not apply to the MLS

yes i understand it is a European ruling for the European union countries, but

lets say I am a GM plant worker and I get laid off. There is nothing stopping me from starting to work for Honda...does the MLS have legal grounds? (they did fight this before didn't they and won?)

this is dumb

MLS is a single entity (there is only 1 "club"), and the players work for MLS not the individual clubs. that's why you can't have free agency. MLS spent a lot of money in legal fees and won in court to defend it's single entity status and any hint of the league not being single entity may bring the league into an anti-trust case that could destroy the business model that has been so successful and has drawn in many investors and sponsors. MLSE wouldn't have invested in MLS without single entity for example.

This is why MLS will not give on free agency, it's not the money that's the issue as the owners have offered offered the players 60 million more already.

gtaguy
03-12-2010, 08:06 PM
with all due respect this is my viewpoint in the matter so I don't want to get blasted for my opinion.

I am fully backing the players on the current CBA. I think that the league and entity has more to lose then the players.

1. I am a fan and will be back when this is all over. No doubt about it.
2. I am saving money in this years seasons tickets. There a ton of footy to be played in the next 6 months.. world cup, champions league, Uefa,copa libertadores, south american championships. etc etc.
3. Maybe this is a good way of getting this league the respect it deserves and if that pisses off alot of soccer moms and dad then so be it. All major leagues that strike make a comeback. It will take some time but if you love the sport you make the effort to support it.
3a . Once and for all we will see which cities really want to support a club in thier backyards and what better way of measuring if the city and ppl support its soccer and the brand. post strike>>> if you build it they will come!.. sorry had to steal that from baseball .
4 Mls does not want to set a precedence where alot of the major N.A sports leagues have established the same control. Their up to thier knees in poop if they don't come to some arrangement with the players union.
5. There is more for the league to lose then the players at the moment. Incoming expansion clubs would most likely sue for all the money spent on building thier squads. development, Strategic partnerships with local businesses, etc etc.
6. A big fat sore in the Mls entity becuase thier chances of seeking support or financial backing from other leagues or soccer entities would go down the drain.
6a . Foreign players will think twice in signing with the MlS becuase of thier control and restrictions.
7. Alot of attencion being drawn to the way N.A manages thier soccer league and how the rules are so different to the rest of the soccer world.

I don't want to see a strike yet in some small way i feel motivated to back the players becuase no one in a profession wants to be controlled by the big brother..

Cas87
03-12-2010, 08:06 PM
Catch me up if this has already been talked about, and if it has here is my two cents on it

This is what i think should be the cornerstones of the new MLS CBA:
1. Free Agency within the League and for Transfers into the league
2. Mutual Transfers out between the league and the individual team (basically keep what they have now)
3. HIGHER CAP -- improve the leage so the when a USL team does beat an MLS team in a competative match it'll be like the lower ranked NCAA football teams beating Ohio State or Michigan or USC or something similar
4. Two Designated player spots per team ... the reasoning for this is not to just bring big name to the league but to have team at least take a chance with one of the spots (because I think the reason why some teams haven't used the DP spot yet is because they think anyone other than a "Beckham"-esque player is a gamble they can afford)
5. League wide player endorsements (have the names of all the teams work together to spread the MLS product and the local teams)

that is all

devioustrevor
03-12-2010, 08:12 PM
I got my tax refund this week, I was going to book my train tickets and hotel room for Montreal next week. Glad I didn't jump the gun on that.

gtaguy
03-12-2010, 08:37 PM
^ For sure. Yeah, we're all basically fucked if there's no season.

And think about what could happen with Vancouver and Portland? The clubs and their communities have committed a lot of money for their MLS franchises. They must be collectively shitting themselves now.


CashCleaner not necessarily so.. I think if this crap is drawn out too long you might just see the NASL grow up to be the big league entity. I don't believe clubs are bound by any contract to have to stay in the MLS...
Someone correct me if im wrong.

Hooligan69
03-12-2010, 09:14 PM
Strike? Meh. It's a World Cup year.

troy1982
03-12-2010, 09:33 PM
CashCleaner not necessarily so.. I think if this crap is drawn out too long you might just see the NASL grow up to be the big league entity. I don't believe clubs are bound by any contract to have to stay in the MLS...
Someone correct me if im wrong.

Well MLS owns 50% of TFC and the other 50% is by MLSE
Also MLSE owns 6% of MLS.

for all intent and purpose TFC is MLS and MLS is TFC it's one entity.

S_D
03-12-2010, 09:58 PM
not sure about the 6% part but I believe MLS owns 51%

rocker
03-12-2010, 10:15 PM
and doesn't MLS own the trademark of Toronto FC? I know they own some teams trademarks.

S_D
03-12-2010, 10:18 PM
here is a question:

Lets use Serioux as an example.

Just to use extremes, he is out of contract, TFC holds his rights and won't trade him unless someone coughs up a 1st round draft pick. Nobody will pay what TFC wants as they all think he is at most worth a second or third rounder, so he can't work. He is in limbo, and not getting paid by anyone? Surely there is a law against preventing someone from working??

Now lets say finally TFC relents and trades his rights, but it is 1/2 way through the season. Serioux signs a contract for 100K/year but the club that picks him up only has to pay 1/2 a years of his salary. I am sure any agent worth his salt would try and get the league to pay the other 1/2 of his salary, but would they have to?

I had an idea about how to push the process to make the team that owns the rights want to move the player as fast as possible. If they want to hold up his rights, they are responsible for paying the player based on his previous year's contract out of their own pockets (MLS still pays the salary, MLS fines the team = to the pay), and to make it sting a bit more, it counts against the team's cap so they get a double whammy.

Not sure if it would be legal or work within the MLS framework, but damn if you have a team that needs all the cap space it can get (and most do), I am sure you would be willing to move that player a little faster.

ag futbol
03-12-2010, 10:35 PM
Meh, the closer you look at the details the less single entity holds up. How does MLS explain the coaching changes within the league if they are a single employer?

But regardless of the legal arguments behind this we can all agree that from a practical pov it's complete balls. The day this system falls apart will be a good one.

ag futbol
03-12-2010, 10:46 PM
Well MLS owns 50% of TFC and the other 50% is by MLSE
Also MLSE owns 6% of MLS.

for all intent and purpose TFC is MLS and MLS is TFC it's one entity.
But say TFC (its financial backers and the people within the organization) decide to walk away and form a new club. Sure they lose the TFC name, but for all intensive purposes they can still compete on any other level.

At a certain point i don't really care about MLS. Say we were to move to NASL with Vancouver, Montreal, and a few other teams. I understand getting those other guys to move is a big *if* but if the restrictions were kept more reasonable it could be worth it.

At a certain point it's got to be tempting. You get a real academy, real development pyramid, you get 100% of transfer dollars, you get more freedom over personnel decisions.

WHITEY
03-12-2010, 11:36 PM
I hope there is a strike to be honest. Fuck at least I won't have to worry about trying to sell or give away tickets during the World Cup.

BC101
03-12-2010, 11:38 PM
I hope there is a strike to be honest. Fuck at least I won't have to worry about trying to sell or give away tickets during the World Cup.
or missing the CL Final.

Sid
03-13-2010, 02:32 PM
i dont know but i think we should make a banner and show up on homeopener at gate 1 with the banner saying something about CBA plus strike if the homeopener is a no game going. Stay out there chanting something cause it's alittle fucked up about this

Pigfynn
03-13-2010, 04:18 PM
But say TFC (its financial backers and the people within the organization) decide to walk away and form a new club. Sure they lose the TFC name, but for all intensive purposes they can still compete on any other level.

At a certain point i don't really care about MLS. Say we were to move to NASL with Vancouver, Montreal, and a few other teams. I understand getting those other guys to move is a big *if* but if the restrictions were kept more reasonable it could be worth it.

At a certain point it's got to be tempting. You get a real academy, real development pyramid, you get 100% of transfer dollars, you get more freedom over personnel decisions.

And if you managed to get Seattle, New York and teams like DC to follow you it would be a better league.

troy1982
03-13-2010, 11:38 PM
And if you managed to get Seattle, New York and teams like DC to follow you it would be a better league.

DC is the biggest money loser in the league. They would have folded already without single entity.

T.O TILL I DIE
03-14-2010, 02:48 PM
I hope there is a strike to be honest. Fuck at least I won't have to worry about trying to sell or give away tickets during the World Cup.

your a good fan of toronto...