Today's News,Wednesday,Mar.010

[denime]

Mornin'


No TFC NEws for now.




SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/)

[CretanBull]

No news is good news? :D :noidea:

[Shway]

nobody left:noidea:, and likewise no new signing

[Phil]

Article on TV struggles and the MLS

http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/how-major-league-soccer-is-losing-the-tv-war-in-the-united-states/8376

[Oldtimer]

In contrast to FC Dallas' decision to carry veteran cover at a comparatively significant price, Toronto FC opted to release veteran midfielder Carl Robinson over the weekend rather than retain him for a fourth season. The former Welsh international then joined long-standing admirers New York on trial this week in Fort Lauderdale.

Robinson's departure marks yet another in a rather lengthy list of salary budget busting moves by TFC. On the surface, Robinson's departure makes considerable sense. The Reds possess plenty of cover in central midfield – Julian de Guzman will occupy one spot, while Sam Cronin can slot inside to his natural defensive midfield role to fill the other vacancy – and TFC simply can't carry Robinson's substantial guaranteed salary ($300,000 base, according to the Union) in a reserve role with de Guzman and Dwayne De Rosario on the books already.

Dig a little deeper and the negative ramifications of the move hit home. Although Robinson will play elsewhere in 2010, a significant portion of his salary will count against the Reds' salary budget because teams can't just dump players with guaranteed deals without assuming a corresponding budget charge. The same principle that keeps Nick Garcia – currently in the second year of a two-year guarantee after San Jose rather impulsively granted him a new deal at $190,000 in base compensation per season after a solid 2008 campaign and then assumed a considerable portion of that salary to ship him to TFC last June – on the TFC roster will see the Reds pay a hefty price for Robinson to play for a competitor in 2010 and hope they can use the meager funds freed by his departure to sign an impact player.

The salary arrangement makes Robinson a reasonably-priced addition for New York. While Robinson probably doesn't represent a wise investment at the face value of his contract, he makes sense in the $100k-150k pay bracket given his ability, his experience and his willingness to play in central defense if asked. Considering New York's current assortment of options in both spots, Robinson could certainly make an impact if he can maintain possession consistently and show his fitness during his trial stint.
http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2010/03/10/1826197/mccarthys-musings-hartman-robinson-moves-reveal-difficult

This might explain why Garcia plays for us -- we aren't paying all of his salary.

[Section 117]

I read in today's Toronto Sun that Serioux's rights were traded to Houston for a third round pick.

So Mo trades a 1st round pick (Teal Bunbury) and allocation money for Serioux and now we send his rights to Houston for a third round pick....

Well done Mo another great move on your part

[koryo]

I read in today's Toronto Sun that Serioux's rights were traded to Houston for a third round pick.

So Mo trades a 1st round pick (Teal Bunbury) and allocation money for Serioux and now we send his rights to Houston for a third round pick....

Well done Mo another great move on your part

But 3 is a higher number than 1, so that's a good thing right?
:D

[bgnewf]

On page S20 of the Toronto Sun today, Gareth Wheeler talks to Adrian Serioux. For some reason I can't find the link on their web site. Here are a couple of excerpts and quotes from Adrian himself that I transacribed from the article:
________________________________

Adrian Serioux's absense when Toronto FC's training camp opened last month was conspicious, speculated and not fully acknowledged by the club.

Light was shed on the situation Tuesday. Serioux got a new home and shared some harsh words for his former team. Toronto has traded Serioux's rights to the Houston Dynamo for a 2011 third round draft pick. The trade has yet to be announced but will be by the end of the week.

There are indications that MLS had a hand in pushing this deal through, making the league's side look better during a crucial juncture of labour negotiations, expediting the process of finding the Player's union poster-boy a new home.

Regardless, Serioux was left waiting for the deal to be consummated, hurt by TFC's failure to disclose accurate information.

"...What bothered me most was hearing I was released. They (TFC) went about it shady, making it look like they had the upper-hand. I was out of contract..."

"...You've got to let people know what's going on with the team - if you don;t have the fans you don;t have anything..."

"...I would have loved to stay in Toronto and want to thank all the fantastic fans for their support..."

"...Everyone's not on the same page at TFC. Some people wanted me, except the one person that has more power than anyone else..."

"...The best teams in this league are guys who've been together for a while", Serioux said. "they get a sense of cameradie and feel. Until that happens here (at TFC), it's going to be a struggle..."

Despite hard feelings, Serioux would not rule out return as a Red.

"...I might be back someday. But while a certain someone's there, you probably won't see me..."

[Section 117]

Oh yeah by the way in the article Serioux touches very briefly on the disaster that is our FO

[koryo]

Thanks for posting that newf.

Now I wonder who that "certain someone" could be?

[Oldtimer]

Wheeler's article is here:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists/Wheeler/2010/03/10/13177206-qmi.html

Good for him for getting to the bottom of the story, that's good journalism.

Hopefully Tom Anselmi will read it and draw some conclusions about the problems in the corner office.

[koryo]

That's a damn good article.

[Detroit_TFC]

This info makes a lot of other things make more sense. It's going to be unpleasant to lance that boil but needs to be done.

[keem-o-sabi]

coed girls 1 (http://coedmagazine.com/2010/03/09/marisa-miller-is-looking-tit-a-licious/) and 2 (http://coedmagazine.com/2010/03/09/miss-coed-jessica-lynn-hinton/)

[drewski]

On page S20 of the Toronto Sun today, Gareth Wheeler talks to Adrian Serioux. For some reason I can't find the link on their web site. Here are a couple of excerpts and quotes from Adrian himself that I transacribed from the article:
________________________________

Adrian Serioux's absense when Toronto FC's training camp opened last month was conspicious, speculated and not fully acknowledged by the club.

Light was shed on the situation Tuesday. Serioux got a new home and shared some harsh words for his former team. Toronto has traded Serioux's rights to the Houston Dynamo for a 2011 third round draft pick. The trade has yet to be announced but will be by the end of the week.

There are indications that MLS had a hand in pushing this deal through, making the league's side look better during a crucial juncture of labour negotiations, expediting the process of finding the Player's union poster-boy a new home.

Regardless, Serioux was left waiting for the deal to be consummated, hurt by TFC's failure to disclose accurate information.

"...What bothered me most was hearing I was released. They (TFC) went about it shady, making it look like they had the upper-hand. I was out of contract..."

"...You've got to let people know what's going on with the team - if you don;t have the fans you don;t have anything..."

"...I might be back someday. But while a certain someone's there, you probably won't see me..."


so this just furthers what we were talking about yesterday with how the FO handled the whole Robbo release

[Oldtimer]

As supporters, we need to seriouxly consider calling for Mo's head later in the season when the team tanks. Banners, chants, the works.

[bgnewf]

As supporters, we need to seriouxly consider calling for Mo's head later in the season when the team tanks. Banners, chants, the works.

I am far from a "Mo Supporter" but I have decided to hold him at his word. At the end of last season he stated that if TFC does not make the playoffs this year he is gone.

If, god forbid, that happens again then we all ride him outta town on a rail.

[koryo]

As supporters, we need to seriouxly consider calling for Mo's head later in the season when the team tanks. Banners, chants, the works.

Agreed. Part of support is tough love. Our best interests are those of the team, not of the people running it nor any petty fiefdoms therein.

[Phil]

As supporters, we need to seriouxly consider calling for Mo's head later in the season when the team tanks. Banners, chants, the works.

I agree. Its something that obviously we are all watching VERY closely.

[Section 117]

The calling for Mo's head should have happened last year....

Getting our asses handed to us by Vancouver in Vancouver should have been the breaking point. But we went on win the Nutrilite Championship so it was ok. Then he dicks around the legend that is Danny Dichio with all of the specualtion and bull shit.

So in summary why wait he had three years to build a team from scratch and where did that get us??? Mo must go now no delay. The longer he is here the worse this squad is going to get IMO

[Auzzy]

Wait a sec, are we sure Serioux is upset with Mo, and not with Preki? I would have expected it to be Mo, but I don't think it's clear from the Wheeler article...?

[bgnewf]

Wait a sec, are we sure Serioux is upset with Mo, and not with Preki? I would have expected it to be Mo, but I don't think it's clear from the Wheeler article...?

Considering that by my count this is the third time now that Mo has screwed this guy over I would think that he is more pissed with Mo rather than Preki.

And even if it is the other way around, it is still a damning condemnation of how our club does business.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2010/03/10/1826197/mccarthys-musings-hartman-robinson-moves-reveal-difficult

This might explain why Garcia plays for us -- we aren't paying all of his salary.

that and its guaranteed
nice to hear tho

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Considering that by my count this is the third time now that Mo has screwed this guy over I would think that he is more pissed with Mo rather than Preki.

And even if it is the other way around, it is still a damning condemnation of how our club does business.

if it is preki i cant say im that sad to see us not resign him, if preki whos head coach doesnt think we need him then we have to assume that hes right, we shouldnt resign a player simply because hes from the hometown. I like serioux but we do have alot of coverage in his natural position, he cost a bit and was injured alot...

[Oldtimer]

I am far from a "Mo Supporter" but I have decided to hold him at his word. At the end of last season he stated that if TFC does not make the playoffs this year he is gone.

If, god forbid, that happens again then we all ride him outta town on a rail.

A simple chant calling for his head:

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=20753

NOTE: Members only section of board!
(http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=924182#post924182)

[Oldtimer]

if it is preki i cant say im that sad to see us not resign him, if preki whos head coach doesnt think we need him then we have to assume that hes right, we shouldnt resign a player simply because hes from the hometown. I like serioux but we do have alot of coverage in his natural position, he cost a bit and was injured alot...

It wasn't Preki, I'm quite sure of that.

[Globetrotter]

Getting our asses handed to us by Vancouver in Vancouver should have been the breaking point. But we went on win the Nutrilite Championship so it was ok.

No, it wasn't ok. When we lost to Vancouver (and remember, that happened in June), I sold off all of my seasons seats for the rest of the year. Done. The team had not changed. I wasn't stupid enough to cling to some glimmer of hope. We clearly saw how good the team was when we lost in Vancouver.

I don't expect much from them this year either. From day one we should have signs out every game asking to get rid of Mo.

[koryo]

A simple chant calling for his head:

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=20753
(http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=924182#post924182)

Viva La Revolución! :)

[Beach_Red]

It wasn't Preki, I'm quite sure of that.


But he's going along with it. He may be a good guy, but he took the job with the team when everyone knew what was going on, so he'll have to go, too. The only way there'll be any real change is wholesale. It can't just be one guy - if there are going to be banners and chants and real protest it shoudn't stop there. There's no reason to think the next guy won't just toe the company line, too.

Ha, it's like Deep throat in All the President's Men, got to keep looking higher up the chain...

[Ossington Mental Youth]

But he's going along with it. He may be a good guy, but he took the job with the team when everyone knew what was going on, so he'll have to go, too. The only way there'll be any real change is wholesale. It can't just be one guy - if there are going to be banners and chants and real protest it shoudn't stop there. There's no reason to think the next guy won't just toe the company line, too.

Ha, it's like Deep throat in All the President's Men, got to keep looking higher up the chain...

i think this is quite extreme, how do we know hes going along with it?
what diabolical scheme is he going along with?

[flambe]

I personally don't trust Mo one little bit. The handling of Danny, Carl and now Serioux has been horrendous. If we do make the play-offs this year, it will be due to some good coaching and not as a result of Mo.

Not only is he damaging the current club with shit, mis-placed and mis-timed acquisitions, but he is also damaging our future by acting like a douchebag and giving TFC a bad name among the players.

Thanks Mo, you're a true genius!

[Beach_Red]

i think this is quite extreme, how do we know hes going along with it?
what diabolical scheme is he going along with?

It's like BGNEWF said, "... it is still a damning condemnation of how our club does business." It's how the club does business. That's not going to change unless big, big changes are made.

[Oldtimer]

Just cut out the diseased organ and the side effects will go away. The next GM can decide about Preki.

[DangerRed]

Adrian says that contract talks stopped dead only when Preki arrived and Mo handed over all soccer-related responsibilities to him.

While this begs the question of what the fuck Mo still does at TFC, it seems like Adrian's issue is more with Preki than with Mo.

[Oldtimer]

Preki was hired by Mo, so it's still Mo who's responsible.

[olegunnar]

Can you imgaine?

You boss says...sorry we dont' have a job for you anymore.

You say...okay....that sucks...but I'll go find a new one.

Your boss says...sorry...you can't do that...I still hold your rights. I don't like you so I'm not going to let you look for another job. You'll be our property, but won't work for us and won't get paid.


Luckily for Serioux the league stepped in and rescued him from Mo's spite.

[Oldtimer]

While this begs the question of what the fuck Mo still does at TFC

Goes on "scouting" trips to Brazil for Christmas on the company dime. And $%^& Danny Dichio, Robbo, AND DeRo.

[Redcoe15]

I've been stewing over the decisions made by the front office lately. But, after reading Wheeler's interview with Serioux, I am officially on the "MO MUST GO!!!" bandwagon.

[Beach_Red]

Just cut out the diseased organ and the side effects will go away. The next GM can decide about Preki.


That's the kind of thinking that has won the Maple Leafs so many Cups......

;)

[JuliquE]

On the subject of Mo's possible ousting, it's worth nothing that he and Preki go way back. I know -- not the best of signs.. but if things are looking good for us, by mid-season, then I wouldn't tinker with what works (for now; he'll be on a short leash for seasons to come, as well.. even if we fare well, this year).

Safe to say that I don't like much of how he's handled things, but if Preki's managing to keep us in good standing -- instilled a winning philosophy, out on the pitch -- I'll be content with that.

This means, of course, that we don't wait and see if we make the playoffs, before "calling for Mo's head." No. We have to feel like having a post-season is a must, this year.. with or without Mo, and WE'LL be the ones to make sure it happens.

Again, if we're not considerably high in the table (I would say no less than sixth, overall; perhaps top two of our conference), then we should insist on seeing a change for that final stretch.

Tschuess

[Ossington Mental Youth]

It's like BGNEWF said, "... it is still a damning condemnation of how our club does business." It's how the club does business. That's not going to change unless big, big changes are made.

still think its insanely extreme to rid of preki at this point, especially with no replacement, who would possibly want to come here after cleaning house? most likely someone from outside the league who knows not of the issues

[mastermixer]

All this negative press between the players and FO over the last 6-8 months can't be good for team psyche and morale.

1. Carver quits
2. Dichio "Retires"
3. DeRo receiving "promises" from FO
4. Robbo let go... Only found out after Preki was prodded.
5. Serioux gone... team bashing article in the Sun

I'm still going to save the pitchforks till we see these guys play some soccer, but I got a bad feeling that's for sure.

[forza_tfc]

Guys--anyone remember at the end of last season how pissed some of the players were because there was an attitude problem by some in the locker room? I always had a suspicion it was Serioux. Isn't it possible the reason why they're getting rid of him was for this reason?

This is all speculation, but that's my hunch.

[koryo]

As OT, Shaugno and others have pointed out, "MO MUST GO!" is best used when the season is in the toilet (ie: a poor start of five games) or what have you. Not when we're down a goal in a game, or playing to a lacklustre draw.

FTR: We're not targeting Preki here. He should be given a fair shake. I think he can help turn things around but can only do so much with what he has.

[reggie]

where the fuck is MO BABCOCK anyway is he hiding in his bunker again.
MO MUST GO

[TFC Tifoso]

The calling for Mo's head should have happened last year....

Getting our asses handed to us by Vancouver in Vancouver should have been the breaking point. But we went on win the Nutrilite Championship so it was ok. Then he dicks around the legend that is Danny Dichio with all of the specualtion and bull shit.

So in summary why wait he had three years to build a team from scratch and where did that get us??? Mo must go now no delay. The longer he is here the worse this squad is going to get IMO

some of us did try last year, but were labelled as traitors, bandwagon fans, and not supportive of the team.....hopefully, more will be up for it this year, but I won't hold my breath.....

[DangerRed]

Guys--anyone remember at the end of last season how pissed some of the players were because there was an attitude problem by some in the locker room? I always had a suspicion it was Serioux. Isn't it possible the reason why they're getting rid of him was for this reason?

This is all speculation, but that's my hunch.

I think you might definitely be on to something. Guevara got purged because of his inconsistent work ethic but surely he wasn't the only one who needed an attitude adjustment in our locker room.

I think the Robbo call was a salary issue and Preki seemed to suggest that Carl didn't want to be in Toronto anymore. With Adrian, it might have been an attitude thing.

Adrian also had a serious (no pun intended) neck injury that kept recurring. I love the guy and I'm not saying that this played a role, but he's hardly the invincible man at the back that he used to be.

[Phil]

some of us did try last year, but were labelled as traitors, bandwagon fans, and not supportive of the team.....hopefully, more will be up for it this year, but I won't hold my breath.....

And some of us chose to protest after the game demading change.

Lets not forget that although the approaches may be different the centiment was there.

[JuliquE]

Guys--anyone remember at the end of last season how pissed some of the players were because there was an attitude problem by some in the locker room? I always had a suspicion it was Serioux. Isn't it possible the reason why they're getting rid of him was for this reason?

This is all speculation, but that's my hunch.
Serioux is my cousin, and I can assure you: he's not that dude; very classy, as it concerns people within his circles (i.e. family and I have to imagine teammates).. and an animal against the opposition.

You should note that he was never quoted as saying anything against the rest of the guys in the side, even with this more recent interview. If anything, Preki's being against his return was due to the injury he picked up (and, perhaps, added to the rest he had accumulated throughout the prior season).

Tschuess

[Ossington Mental Youth]

For me it took some time to realize it but Mo truly must go, his sins have outweighed his penances

[bgnewf]

The other thing that really struck me about the article is Wheeler's assertion that MLS had to essentially step in and kind of force TFC's hand to deal Serioux.

Based on Wheeler's track record of being off base a few times previously I will take that assertion with a huge grain of salt. But let's assume it is true for a moment. If true, then apparently TFC was willing to essentially blackball Serioux and not allow him to sign with another club in MLS by holding onto his rights and and not trading the rights to another MLS club, freezing him out and not allowing him to make a living.

If that was the case (that this was some sort of 'fuck you" to Serioux) than I would call it the single most heinous unprofessional thing this club has ever done.

[Section 117]

some of us did try last year, but were labelled as traitors, bandwagon fans, and not supportive of the team.....hopefully, more will be up for it this year, but I won't hold my breath.....

I know the feeling but I can bet that the moment we string two or three decent results and everything will be back to normal of rthe majority of the fans

[Nuvinho]

FINALLY!!! A player has come on record and said that Mo is the problem. Hopefully others will step up.

[Oldtimer]

You can see for yourself that I defended Mo in season 2 and most of season 3. We needed to give an expansion team a chance. However, it's how players are being treated that proved the tipping point for me. it's clear Mo is the problem.

[Nuvinho]

I am Fkin' pissed now!!! This was the final piece.

You give up a 1st round pick plus cash for Serioux, then trade him away for a 3rd round pick......I can't say what I really feel on here, since i'd be bashing MoJo in a way that some may find offensive. This is pathetic, we are the freakin' laughing stock of MLS.

[Nuvinho]

You can have a grass pitch, you can have sold out gms, you have the best fans..but you are still shit, b/c you have a moron/idiot as GM

Can anyone tell I am pissed? hahahaha!!!

[Ciamps]

Sometimes I laugh at some of the comments being made on this board towards Mo Johnston. I think we all need to wake up and see exactly whats going on. Compare our team to Seattle, oh wait we cant there way more ahead than we are. There's a lot of things that I seen first hand as a supporter and person involved in youth soccer in Ontario. The first was when TFC had there first pre season training at the OSA in Vaughan and MO was on his blackberry during the whole practice and was on the field while the players were training under Bob Gansler. Now you call that being professional. We signed 4 Canadians from abroad ( Marco Reda, Chris Pozniak, Jim Brennan, and Miguel Cannizalez) who to me one Jimmy could have came into the team and started right away. But Mo expected for all of them to come in here and start for the team which as you could see they couldnt. We also brought in several players from the USA, England, New Zeland, etc. and only one player remains from the inagural season. All we were told coming from the media and only the TFC office was that these players didnt want to play here. Reason's turf, weather, far from home, didnt like coach. But not once did we here from a player that it was because of our GM. Players often dont come out and critisize the manager's why they are the ones that give them the pay cheques so there stuck in a position where they cant really say as much. Us the fans have been providing the TFC organization way to much support for a team really that hasnt done the same for us. Every day I wake up I log on to mlsnet.com to take a look at whats going on around the league and all I read is how every other team in the league is signing players with a pretty good resume. In Toronto's case we are signing players that quit the game and are making a come back. I could keep on going here and I normally dont post on the site just read but I feel bad for us the fans for being mistreated from the club who we love and respect. Hopefully we could build a core group of players and build from there.

[Parkdale]

wait.... from the Sun column...


Accordingly to Serioux, he was placed in a bad position when Johnston handed over all soccer-related decisions to Preki.

so our 'Director of Soccer' turned over all soccer related decisions to someone else?


I wish I could do that with my job! Delegate everything except my new raise!

[DichioTFC]

i just hope the next GM doesnt make short term decisions. Trading away the Teal Burnaby pick for Serioux, then trading Serioux after one year for the third pick ... these decisions were short-term and possibly by a person who was afraid for his job and felt pressured to make short-term results. A first-round pick wouldn't have been of any benefit to MoJo because the pick would have needed time to mature, time that MoJo didnt have. I'm tired of Toronto teams being devalued by a "results now" approach.

[DichioTFC]

wait.... from the Sun column...



so our 'Director of Soccer' turned over all soccer related decisions to someone else?


I wish I could do that with my job! Delegate everything except my new raise!

Is anyone surprised though? Guevara gone pretty much immediately. Serioux gone without negotiations. Robbo's gone, historical value disregarded.

Yet Garcia stays. And starts. And loses 4-0. Against NJ Energy Drink. :facepalm:

[ManUtd4ever]

I'm trying to keep everything in perspective regarding the backlash against MoJo for his repeated PR blunders as the face of our beloved organization. The recent departures of significant TFC players such as Guevara, Robbo, and Serioux could be justified as changes made out of necessity due to the various circumstances regarding each player. However, I agree that the manner in which each situation was handled is inexcusable and all the negative press could have easily been avoided if Mo had any sense of decorum whatsoever...

[Beach_Red]

wait.... from the Sun column...



so our 'Director of Soccer' turned over all soccer related decisions to someone else?


I wish I could do that with my job! Delegate everything except my new raise!

Remember in the movie thread, your comment about the director looking through the lense and what a DOP does?

Anyway, the post above mentions Seattle, and that's what we should be talking about. When Seattle got its MLS team they looked at the league, saw the top team and hired their manager. Then they paid the fine for tampering and never looked back.

That's the kind of ownership we need. Say what you want about Drew Carey, it helps to have a public face not an anonymous board of governors that hides behind an ever-changing FO.

[Batman]

As OT, Shaugno and others have pointed out, "MO MUST GO!" is best used when the season is in the toilet (ie: a poor start of five games) or what have you. Not when we're down a goal in a game, or playing to a lacklustre draw.

FTR: We're not targeting Preki here. He should be given a fair shake. I think he can help turn things around but can only do so much with what he has.

Ditto!

[mastermixer]

If you look at the Raptors from the beginning, a team who are under the same ownership umbrella, take a look at all the managerial blunders that team has gone through. After 15 years they've gone through a bunch of bad managers and coaches and still really have nothing to really be proud of. I hope that's not what we TFC fans have to look forward to in the next 15 years.

[Nuvinho]

Here is a question:

Is the current year 4 team better than the year 3 team? better than the year 2 team? better then the year 1 team?

I'd put this current team same or slightly better than the year 2 team, but how do we know since we change personnel like....you fill in the blanks.

[drewski]

As OT, Shaugno and others have pointed out, "MO MUST GO!" is best used when the season is in the toilet (ie: a poor start of five games) or what have you. Not when we're down a goal in a game, or playing to a lacklustre draw.

FTR: We're not targeting Preki here. He should be given a fair shake. I think he can help turn things around but can only do so much with what he has.

I'm down with that

[reggie]

its all about bandaide solutions with mo,covering his ass for all the mistakes he his making.
if we start 0-3 it may get ugly..

[Parkdale]

That's the kind of ownership we need. Say what you want about Drew Carey, it helps to have a public face not an anonymous board of governors that hides behind an ever-changing FO.


I've never had anything bad to say about him (except for that time he came to BMO and taunted supporters from the safety of his private box).

you know that old commercial for the 'Hair Club for Men' where the guy says "I like the product so much that I bouth the company". Well thats' the kind of company Seattle has set up - one that any fan would be proud to own part of... Oh... and they DO!!

the biggest upset for me is that our team's reputation is getting hurt because of Mo's style. When players trash talk their hometown team (Like Serioux has been forced to do, thanks MO) then we know something is broken beyond repair.

[Whoop]

I don't blame Preki here at all.

It sounds like Mo was just passing the buck.

I imagined it went something like this.

"Mo, what about that contract we were talking about?"
"Sorry Adrian, Preki handles all football related matters now. You'll have to talk to him."

So the next day Serioux calls up Preki.
"Hi, Preki, this is Adrian Serioux. Mo told me to call you in regards to a contract extension, now that you're handling all football related matters."
"Wait a minute what contract extension?"
"Well during the summer Mo and I were talking contract and he said we'd take care of it during the off season. So when I spoke with him yesterday he said to talk to you."
"Um... yeah... Adrian, I was going to recommend to Mo to let you go... ummm... I'm trying to work out something for you but I'm not getting much of a response from the other teams."
"What the fuck?"

I think Mo is throwing Preki under the bus.

If the team is shit this year, he'll say "Not my fault, Preki is responsible for all the football related issues."
If the team does well, Mo will say that he built the team and that he deserves another contract extension.

I think Preki can get some results with his coaching ability, just wondering who will get the credit.

[rocker]

from the Soccer Insider:

*As first seen on the Insider's Twitter feed, the Chicago Fire and trialist Collins John have been unable to reach agreement on a contract, and the 24-year-old Liberian-Dutch forward is planning to return to Europe to seek other opportunities.

-----
So ya, it's good to bring in quality trialists but if you can't sign them because they are of a high quality, it's a waste of time.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Very nice-looking SSG today, I must say...

[spark]

some of us did try last year, but were labelled as traitors, bandwagon fans, and not supportive of the team.....hopefully, more will be up for it this year, but I won't hold my breath.....

hahaha yeah rno posted this (http://www.rednationonline.ca/if_the_reds_lose_we_can_win_aug_26_09_column.shtml ) last year and thank god I use an alias b/c I thought our houses would have been burnt down. ps nevermind the last para haha

The post from CIAMPS echoes alot of things heard over the last two years in terms of "professional" behaviour. I don't know what winning or waiting until the end of the year will do to change that, like all of a sudden they'll value their commited players more? Winning will just give more arrogance that they can do whatever they want and remain unaccountable to the fans who are making them rich.

Just remember, there is a difference between supporting the club and the owners.

[Beach_Red]

the biggest upset for me is that our team's reputation is getting hurt because of Mo's style. When players trash talk their hometown team (Like Serioux has been forced to do, thanks MO) then we know something is broken beyond repair.


What reputation?

Look at Mastermixer's comment about the Raptors. And look at the mess that is the Leafs (I know, I know, the Leafs and Raptors both have their saviours now...)

There's a reputation problem here but it started long before TFC came into existence and TFC is just following the company line.

[Parkdale]

What reputation?


probably something like this:

low performing team in great city. Fans are great but getting pissed off.
owners have bottomless pockets but put a weasel in drivers seat.
has potential to be a good club, but not until the weasel is gone

[Beach_Red]

probably something like this:

low performing team in great city. Fans are great but getting pissed off.
owners have bottomless pockets but put a weasel in drivers seat.
has potential to be a good club, but not until the weasel is gone


Has potential to be good. That's the story of Toronto teams, they all have potential. We're still waiting. Why are all MLSE teams, "low performing?"

Who's actually in the driver's seat?

[Whoop]

What reputation?

Look at Mastermixer's comment about the Raptors. And look at the mess that is the Leafs (I know, I know, the Leafs and Raptors both have their saviours now...)

There's a reputation problem here but it started long before TFC came into existence and TFC is just following the company line.

I agree with this post.

[spark]

low performing team in great city. Fans are great but getting pissed off. owners have bottomless pockets but put a weasel in drivers seat. has potential to be a good club, but not until the weasel is gone

Add in reputation is widely known around the league, in football and is adversely effecting the club's ability to sign players or operate at the level it should be.

[mastermixer]

Yup... definately gotta look at the bigger picture. Mo is just the face of the "Suits"... and boy does that Anselmi guy look good in a suit. I wonder how good the Suits above him look?

[drewski]

sportsnetsoccer (http://twitter.com/sportsnetsoccer)
Nick Garcia says today there will definitely be an MLS strike if a deal is not done before the start of the season

[Parkdale]

Yup... definately gotta look at the bigger picture. Mo is just the face of the "Suits"... and boy does that Anselmi guy look good in a suit. I wonder how good the Suits above him look?

suits understand one big thing ... more wins = more money!

getting concacaf games = more money
getting playoff games = more money
winning the mls cup = you ask for more money from the sponsors

[Parkdale]

sportsnetsoccer (http://twitter.com/sportsnetsoccer)
Nick Garcia says today there will definitely be an MLS strike if a deal is not done before the start of the season


what's that expression.....

shoot the messenger?

[Phil]

sportsnetsoccer (http://twitter.com/sportsnetsoccer)
Nick Garcia says today there will definitely be an MLS strike if a deal is not done before the start of the season

soooo, its a good news day today.

/sarcasm

[JonO]

Any new at all about the mediator they brought in?

[TFC Tifoso]

And some of us chose to protest after the game demading change.

Lets not forget that although the approaches may be different the centiment was there.

fair enough.....if things go sour again this year, perhaps a different approach can be taken.


I know the feeling but I can bet that the moment we string two or three decent results and everything will be back to normal of rthe majority of the fans

I fear this too.....it seems like after the jokes by our FO this offseason some people have woken up....I wonder if they will stay awake or go back to sleep.....

[johnmolinaro]

Spoke to Mo and Anselmi at practice today about Carl. story to follow.

Garcia also said players will strike if no deal in place at start of the season.

John
http://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro

[mastermixer]

suits understand one big thing ... more wins = more money!

getting concacaf games = more money
getting playoff games = more money
winning the mls cup = you ask for more money from the sponsors

Yes in theory they should understand this... but can you say they apply this to the NHL (Leafs) and the NBA (Raptors) teams?

[bgnewf]

Just a general observation here about the general tone about Mo on these boards. Today's events feel to me like a real tipping point for a lot of hardcore supporters. There has always been a significant percentage of TFC fans who want Mo to leave. Today it feels to me like that number has grown significantly.

[Nuvinho]

Just a general observation here about the general tone about Mo on these boards. Today's events feel to me like a real tipping point for a lot of hardcore supporters. There has always been a significant percentage of TFC fans who want Mo to leave. Today it feels to me like that number has grown significantly.

Today was my tipping point.

[mastermixer]

^^And to top everything off, the league is on the verge of striking and possibly losing any momentum it has gained in the last few years. I just invested $2600 dollars in season seats, I just hope I get something to cheer about in return.

[Beach_Red]

suits understand one big thing ... more wins = more money!

getting concacaf games = more money
getting playoff games = more money
winning the mls cup = you ask for more money from the sponsors

No, the biggest thing suits understand is how to keep their jobs. The company is profitable, it's making enough money. Sure, a little more would be great, but no one in corporate would ever stake their job on winning the Cup. That kind of mentality just doesn't work for faceless corps.

You know how some people buy a McDonalds franchise and some people open their own restaurant and put their own names on it. They have a different way of thinking and they can't easily change places wth each other.

A faceless corp attracts and understands a particular type. The next one won't be any better than this one.

MLSE remind me so much of the Toronto film and TV business. Sure, there are a lot of great crews but there aren't any producers....

[Pigfynn]

If they start the season badly...like lose in Columbus and play badly for the MANY TFC supporters headed to New England...I'm afraid of the backlash.

I for one am most concerned about the image problem that seems to have developed around our club. TFC is so loved by it's fans and the real disaster would be if it's reputation was severely damaged by one of the temporary people involved with the club.

It's important to remember that as supporters, we are here for the long haul and the players, coaches and GMs are merely our club's current reflection. Right now things look very, very ugly.

If they don't win (and things don't look promising) there's a shitstorm coming.

[Parkdale]

Yes in theory they should understand this... but can you say they apply this to the NHL (Leafs) and the NBA (Raptors) teams?

just the Leafs are a freak of nature and the raps are only supported by forcing raps tickets on all leafs season ticket holders.

[Darlofletch]

Just a general observation here about the general tone about Mo on these boards. Today's events feel to me like a real tipping point for a lot of hardcore supporters. There has always been a significant percentage of TFC fans who want Mo to leave. Today it feels to me like that number has grown significantly.

Yeah, I've always been on the fence with Mo, thought we could probably do better, but he's not that bad. I went to the gate4 protest after the LA game, but thought it was maybe a bit of an angry overreaction on my behalf, that while I never really liked him, he wasn't all that bad and I've liked some of the moves he's made, so maybe give him a c grade.

Put all those seperate moves together though, and they have turned into an unholy mess, it's clear he's never really had a plan, and when you add up all the crap that's come out over the last year or so, carver, Cummins, De Ro, Dichio, Robbo, now Serioux, probably others I'm forgetting or we just don't know about, and it's not just that he's not really helping us, he seems to be actively hurting us, so I'm definitely past my tipping point.

back in 2006, i was talking with a friend of a friend who, though not directly involved in tfc, is an ex pro and very involved in football in ontario. this was before Mo got the job, but he knew that Mo had been interviewed, he was suggesting there's no way they'd give him the job, it would be a terrible decision, seems like he was right.

[BuSaPuNk]

Today was my tipping point.

Me too. :flare:

I'm so sick and tired of the spew coming from the FO. MoJo has to either resign or be fired. None of which will happen. ML$E is too worried about the bottom line and not enough about the on field or ice or hardwood product to do anything.

There has to be a real cause for concern in the FO of TFC and ML$E offices as well. Raps underperforming, Leafs well there the Leafs, and now TFC. Alot of money is running away from them with poor performing and sideshow actions.

I'd give MoJo 5 games into the season. Either were 3-1-1 or 4-1-0 or 5-0-0 and he stays for the remainder. Any worse sack his ass and hand the reigns over to Preki.

[Globetrotter]

When Seattle got its MLS team they looked at the league, saw the top team and hired their manager. Then they paid the fine for tampering and never looked back.

That's the kind of ownership we need.

Complete disregard for the rules and system. That's not the type of ownership any team or organisation needs.

It's cheaper to pollute the air and pay finds for not meeting certain government requirements or international agreements than it is to conform to the rules and pay to proper/cleaner waste disposal. You support destroying your environment because it's better to break the rules and pay a fine?

Nobody should follow that example in any walk of life.

[A Stick]

Today was my tipping point.

OK Folks,

I don't post here very often, but I am fucking pissed. We need take action in the very near future and not after an 0-3 start because that will be too late. We need to stage a protest at one of the pre-season games and bring to light all the shit that is going on with this team. It's obvious that media are afraid of being too critical because they don't want their credentials terminated. However if we bring to light what the hell is going on to the media in the form of a protest, they can't not be blamed by the FO and MLSE. We are creating the shit storm and not them.
What has transpired with the departure of coaches and players in the past year is totally unacceptable and unprofessional! :flare:
Again, let's look at what has happened to the Raptors and the Leafs over the past 10 years! Both teams have been laughing stocks in each leauge. Fellow RPBers please let me know your thoughts on this urgent matter.

TIA;

A Stick

[Beach_Red]

Complete disregard for the rules and system. That's not the type of ownership any team or organisation needs.

It's cheaper to pollute the air and pay finds for not meeting certain government requirements or international agreements than it is to conform to the rules and pay to proper/cleaner waste disposal. You support destroying your environment because it's better to break the rules and pay a fine?

Nobody should follow that example in any walk of life.


But it's sports - sports are all about pushing the limits of the rules. Do you take the penalty or let the play go on? Sometimes taking the penalty is the right choice. That' what sports are all about.

Of course it's not an example for real life. It's why I like sports, they aren't real life. We're not talking about dumping toxic waste in the lake, we're talking about sports.

So, yes, sometimes you disregard the rules and pay the fine in sports. Everyone here would rather have Seattle's ownership and management than what we have.

[spark]

Complete disregard for the rules and system. That's not the type of ownership any team or organisation needs.

It's cheaper to pollute the air and pay finds for not meeting certain government requirements or international agreements than it is to conform to the rules and pay to proper/cleaner waste disposal. You support destroying your environment because it's better to break the rules and pay a fine?

Nobody should follow that example in any walk of life.

Pretty sure nabbing Sigi didn't result in half the forests in the NW being chopped down and two coal power plants being built.

I'm kinda laughing how the guy thinks we need to bend the rules to sign a great coach and your labeling him a destroyer of the environment because of it!

[drewski]

Just a general observation here about the general tone about Mo on these boards. Today's events feel to me like a real tipping point for a lot of hardcore supporters. There has always been a significant percentage of TFC fans who want Mo to leave. Today it feels to me like that number has grown significantly.


the Robbo news had tentatively walking down the slope, the Serioux news got me into a sprint

[Beach_Red]

just the Leafs are a freak of nature and the raps are only supported by forcing raps tickets on all leafs season ticket holders.


No, they aren't a freak of nature. In fact they are perfectly living up to their corporate destiny - just like most teams owned by faceless corps.

[sarsippius]

Hey folks - bit off topic - (haven't read the whole thread) anyone have any CBA updates? Did the Federal Mediator help things at all?

[SteeltownBhoy]

So what does Mo do?? Has there been a Mo sighting,a Mo statement?? Is Mo in TO?? Is Mo really Bill Archer, sent here as part of a Columbus Terrorist Cell to spread destruction ahead of our season opener!!

The real Mo has been buried alive at IBROX!!!
God help us all!!

[Brooker]

So what does Mo do?? Has there been a Mo sighting,a Mo statement?? Is Mo in TO?? Is Mo really Bill Archer, sent here as part of a Columbus Terrorist Cell to spread destruction ahead of our season opener!!

The real Mo has been buried alive at IBROX!!!
God help us all!!

finally. somebody actually talking some sense.

[drewski]

If they start the season badly...like lose in Columbus and play badly for the MANY TFC supporters headed to New England...I'm afraid of the backlash.

I for one am most concerned about the image problem that seems to have developed around our club. TFC is so loved by it's fans and the real disaster would be if it's reputation was severely damaged by one of the temporary people involved with the club.

It's important to remember that as supporters, we are here for the long haul and the players, coaches and GMs are merely our club's current reflection. Right now things look very, very ugly.

If they don't win (and things don't look promising) there's a shitstorm coming.

in one way, it reminds me of the situation in Manchester. Love United, Hate Glazer

[drewski]

Preki: Promise or problem?

http://www.24thminute.com/2010/03/preki-promise-or-problem.html

[bgnewf]

Preki: Promise or problem?

http://www.24thminute.com/2010/03/preki-promise-or-problem.html

Duane may be right here, but I would say that perhaps the premise of the piece may be off. He is making the assumption that Serioux is pissed at Preki and that the insinuation he makes about him not coming back until "somone" leaves is referring to our new coach.

Adrian does not name anyone specifically, and there is a lot of anecdotal evidence, especially based on their history together that it is Mo that he is pissed at.

[Parkdale]

Complete disregard for the rules and system. That's not the type of ownership any team or organisation needs.

It's cheaper to pollute the air and pay finds for not meeting certain government requirements or international agreements than it is to conform to the rules and pay to proper/cleaner waste disposal. You support destroying your environment because it's better to break the rules and pay a fine?

Nobody should follow that example in any walk of life.

:smilielol5:

it's sports!!

teams / owners / players bend and break rules all the time!!
and now big rules like steroids, but little rules like poaching coaches.
It's part of the game!

[Oldtimer]

No, the biggest thing suits understand is how to keep their jobs. The company is profitable, it's making enough money. Sure, a little more would be great, but no one in corporate would ever stake their job on winning the Cup. That kind of mentality just doesn't work for faceless corps.



Faceless corps, like

Real Salt Lake (owned by SCP Worldwide), 2009 champs
Houston Dynamo (owned by AEG), 2007 & 2006 champs
Columbus Crew (owned by Hunt group), 2008 champs
LA Galaxy (owned by AEG), 2005 champs.

Your were saying? :rolleyes:

The problem is Mo, not MLSE per se. MLSE's problem is that they know nothing about soccer, so Mo is unaccountable.

[Beach_Red]

Faceless corps, like

Real Salt Lake (owned by SCP Worldwide), 2009 champs
Houston Dynamo (owned by AEG), 2007 & 2006 champs
Columbus Crew (owned by Hunt group), 2008 champs
LA Galaxy (owned by AEG), 2005 champs.

Your were saying? :rolleyes:

The problem is Mo, not MLSE per se. MLSE's problem is that they know nothing about soccer, so Mo is unaccountable.


Oh sorry, I meant in real sports leagues, not single-entity leagues....

If you're right, who will the next guy be accountable to? Why will it be different? Sure, maybe they'll get lucky and hire someone really, really good. Though how someone really good will get past the MLSE screening process is a question, but it could happen, I guess. I'd feel better if whoever hired Mo wasn't hiring the next guy, too. I'd just like to see the buck stop much higher up where it would make a bigger difference.

[Oldtimer]

Duane may be right here, but I would say that perhaps the premise of the piece may be off. He is making the assumption that Serioux is pissed at Preki and that the insinuation he makes about him not coming back until "somone" leaves is referring to our new coach.

Adrian does not name anyone specifically, and there is a lot of anecdotal evidence, especially based on their history together that it is Mo that he is pissed at.

Even if Preki is the unnamed person, Mo hired Preki so Mo is ultimately responsible for having 4 bad coaches in 4 years. Time to clean the house (of Mo).

[Oldtimer]

Oh sorry, I meant in real sports leagues, not single-entity leagues....



No, you were talking about MLS, so don't try to change your tune.

Listen, everyone is upset right now, but we don't need to have other agendas in play here.

[bgnewf]

Faceless corps, like

Real Salt Lake (owned by SCP Worldwide), 2009 champs
Houston Dynamo (owned by AEG), 2007 & 2006 champs
Columbus Crew (owned by Hunt group), 2008 champs
LA Galaxy (owned by AEG), 2005 champs.

Your were saying? :rolleyes:

The problem is Mo, not MLSE per se. MLSE's problem is that they know nothing about soccer, so Mo is unaccountable.


I think you are onto something, but there is another way to look at this issue as well. The Raptors and for that matter the Marlies, have more in common with the Maple Leafs than TFC does with any of the other sports properties MLSE owns.

Soccer fans are for want of a better word more "militant" in their approach. They are much more willing to take action when they become upset with their club than fans of say basketball or hockey are.

Think of it this way... If the Toronto Maple Leafs were a footy franchise playing in a North American footy league and they were entering their 43rd season without silverware (with nothing on the horizon), I think there would be fans losing their minds. Boycotts, protests, letter writing campaigns, walkouts and mass non renewal of season tickets would be the order of the day. However we see none of that to any great extent.

The point I am trying to make is that if the suits that run MLSE at the boardroom level do not wake up soon and clue into the angst that a large swath of the fanbase for TFC is currently feeling right now, then there will be some much more serious fires for them to put out very soon.

Yes TFC plays in North America, but their fanbase is not the conventional North American sports fan.

[canadian_bhoy]

Thanks for posting that newf.

Now I wonder who that "certain someone" could be?

He's probably talking about my account rep.

I mean...who else could it be?

Who else could have rubbed 99.9% of players that have left our club the wrong way?

Oh wait....what about that Asif character. He did write the blog on the TFC website. It must be him.

[rocker]

Think of it this way... If the Toronto Maple Leafs were a footy franchise playing in a North American footy league and they were entering their 43rd season without silverware (with nothing on the horizon), .

I dunno about this argument tho -- cuz most European soccer teams have never won silverware. Leagues in Europe tend to be dominated by a small group of money-spending teams.

But in Europe there's this strange feeling of happiness when you avoid relegation. I think that placates fans of Euro football, who feel the team has succeeded because it avoided relegation. By Euro accounts, TFC's finish near mid table last season would be seen as a decent result.

Since when do fans of teams who improve every year and finish mid table in year 3 get militant?

[mastermixer]

Ok... now I'm starting to get worried...
We can all hope that everything is OK in TFC land and we're all just "speculating" about possible FO or even player issues but we didnt just pull all this aggrevation out of thin air, there has been enough evidence the past few months to show that something doesnt smell right.
The only thing that might cure all this negativity is winning, but if are at 500 or below after a few games this season the team as we see it now is in BIG trouble.

[scooter]

Thanks for posting that newf.

Now I wonder who that "certain someone" could be?

kitman ?:hump:

[Beach_Red]

No, you were talking about MLS, so don't try to change your tune.

Listen, everyone is upset right now, but we don't need to have other agendas in play here.


Ha ha, yeah okay, point taken.

But if you're going to say, "Mo hired Preki so Mo's responsible," it's not another agenda to ask why it stops there. Why not whoever hired Mo? Why not whoever hired that guy?

[Beach_Red]

Think of it this way... If the Toronto Maple Leafs were a footy franchise playing in a North American footy league and they were entering their 43rd season without silverware (with nothing on the horizon), I think there would be fans losing their minds. Boycotts, protests, letter writing campaigns, walkouts and mass non renewal of season tickets would be the order of the day. However we see none of that to any great extent.




You know, one of the big differences is there are 30 teams in the NHL and only one trophy a year that matters. To compare, you'd have to require that the European team win the Champions League.

So, if the Leafs and the Senators were in some "Ontario Division" with a bunch of smaller teams they'd win a trophy every couple of years, too, but no one would get very excited bout it.

[Oldtimer]

Ha ha, yeah okay, point taken.

But if you're going to say, "Mo hired Preki so Mo's responsible," it's not another agenda to ask why it stops there. Why not whoever hired Mo? Why not whoever hired that guy?

[moderator mode]

You've made your point, now let it stop right there, please.

[/moderator mode]

[Shway]

They Dont Care About Players
They Dont Care About Fans
Toronto Football Club, Is In The Wrong Hands!

[boban]

Faceless corps, like

Real Salt Lake (owned by SCP Worldwide), 2009 champs
Houston Dynamo (owned by AEG), 2007 & 2006 champs
Columbus Crew (owned by Hunt group), 2008 champs
LA Galaxy (owned by AEG), 2005 champs.

Your were saying? :rolleyes:

The problem is Mo, not MLSE per se. MLSE's problem is that they know nothing about soccer, so Mo is unaccountable.
You just proved his point.
AEG is not faceless. Philip Anschutz is the owner.
Hunt is owned by Lamar kids after his death. You know who to talk to.
Who do you talk to at MLSE?!
Who is MLSE? I mean a person, or at max 2 people? Nobody the fuck knows.

And you end by contradicting yourslef. MLSE is not the problem but they know nothing of the sport. Well, that's the problem!!

[ag futbol]

Based on Wheeler's track record of being off base a few times previously I will take that assertion with a huge grain of salt. But let's assume it is true for a moment. If true, then apparently TFC was willing to essentially blackball Serioux and not allow him to sign with another club in MLS by holding onto his rights and and not trading the rights to another MLS club, freezing him out and not allowing him to make a living.

I tend to believe it.

Forget for a second about TFC/Serioux etc...

We basically have a front office group of businessmen who are pulling strings for an entire league.

Stuff like Luis Gil for pennies on the dollar simply doesn't happen unless the league is twisting arms.

Brutal side effect of single entity, people who know NOTHING about the game have a big say in the process.

[Oldtimer]

You just proved his point.
AEG is not faceless. Philip Anschutz is the owner.
Hunt is owned by Lamar kids after his death. You know who to talk to.
Who do you talk to at MLSE?!
Who is MLSE? I mean a person, or at max 2 people? Nobody the fuck knows.

And you end by contradicting yourslef. MLSE is not the problem but they know nothing of the sport. Well, that's the problem!!

I thought someone would mention this. Anschutz is not involved in the day-to-day running of the team. It's corporate types once typified by Alexi Lalas. The Hunt family are mere investors at this point. So there is no contradiction.

[polak9pete]

http://www.p4.no/story.aspx?id=344055

trialist Peter Ijeh signed for swedish club Syrianska

[Nuvinho]

JohnMolinaro (http://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)

Been told by a source that Argentine midfielder Martin Saric is close to signing with Toronto FC

[oxygenatedbrain]

I was going to say, surely that is Saric in the background at training today? Same look, same number, talking to Percovic en espagnol?

[Nuvinho]

DeGuzman said that they definately need more players in, Mo are you listening!!!

[OHARARULES]

Toronto FC union representative Nick Garcia believes that MLS players will strike if a new collective bargaining agreement is not negotiated before the season opens in two weeks time.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/03/10/mls_player_negotiations/

[Ossington Mental Youth]

yeah i caught that too

[sidvan]

[/URL]

No hard feelings on Robinson: Toronto FC

Club kept quiet about trade at New York's request



Read more: [URL="http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/03/10/sp-robinson-johnston.html#ixzz0hoINqQ34"]http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/03/10/sp-robinson-johnston.html#ixzz0hoINqQ34 (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/03/10/sp-robinson-johnston.html)

[bgnewf]

No hard feelings on Robinson: Toronto FC

Club kept quiet about trade at New York's request



Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/03/10/sp-robinson-johnston.html#ixzz0hoINqQ34 (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/03/10/sp-robinson-johnston.html#ixzz0hoINqQ34)


Too little too late. They did not have to speak about any trade details on Monday but they could have said the "kind" words they are saying today two days ago.

This smacks of damage control to me.

Stay classy Mo.

And continue to stay incompetent Michelle Lissell.

[Oldtimer]

Too little too late. They did not have to speak about any trade details on Monday but they could have said the "kind" words they are saying today two days ago.

This smacks of damage control to me.



from the article:


A vocal segment of Toronto fans grew angry after learning that Robinson, one of the team's most popular players, was no longer with TFC and felt the club handled his departure poorly.

Damage-control for sure.

What segment could they mean? :p

[TFC07]

They Dont Care About Players
They Dont Care About Fans
Toronto Football Club, Is In The Wrong Hands!

True, but to be fair, it just middle management (Mo) that is the problem. MLSE should not get the blame. They have done a lot of great things besides hiring Mo and jacking up ticket prices (but then again, it's understandable why they did that)

[rocker]

from the article:



Damage-control for sure.

What segment could they mean? :p



John Molinaro forget to mention the segment of fans that felt it was a needed move and that Carl Robinson didn't have a good season last year and wasn't worth 300K. ;) ;) ;)

[Section 117]

John Molinaro forget to mention the segment of fans that felt it was a needed move and that Carl Robinson didn't have a good season last year and wasn't worth 300K. ;) ;) ;)

That isn't the point at all. It was the way it was handle. Yes the majority do believe for the money being spent on him was excessive but to show a lack of respect to him and to us is what the problem is....

[boban]

True, but to be fair, it just middle management (Mo) that is the problem. MLSE should not get the blame. They have done a lot of great things besides hiring Mo and jacking up ticket prices (but then again, it's understandable why they did that)
Is this sarcasm? Or your true feelings?

[boban]

I thought someone would mention this. Anschutz is not involved in the day-to-day running of the team. It's corporate types once typified by Alexi Lalas. The Hunt family are mere investors at this point. So there is no contradiction.
The contradiction was in your statement that MLSE was not the problem, yet you outline where they are the problem.

As for the rest, the buck still stops at those people, regardless of who they hire.
MLSE hires presidents for each sport team. But you don't know ultimately who is in charge. You have Peddie spewing his shit, then Tannenbhaum does interviews, all the while the majority shareholder says squat. But then how could they when 3 different people rep them at the board. Its a recipe for disaster.

[TFC07]

Is this sarcasm? Or your true feelings?

My true feeling is to fire Mo. MLSE isn't doing a too bad of job what some people here make it out to be. They did get grass, expanding the stadium, spend DP money. What else do you except from them? Only legitimate beef (besides hiring Mo) is the ticket prices (but if you got such a huge demand and people willing to spend a lot of money...it's hard not to jack the prices).

[boban]

My true feeling is to fire Mo. MLSE isn't doing a too bad of job what some people here make it out to be. They did get grass, expanding the stadium, spend DP money. What else do you except from them? Only legitimate beef (besides hiring Mo) is the ticket prices (but if you got such a huge demand and people willing to spend a lot of money...it's hard not to jack the prices).
i don't know, I don't quite see it that way.
Yes they got the grass, but it was something people on many fronts were demanding. Kudos though for calling their contacts to make it happen.
However, overall MLSE, from a sporting perspective is a complete and utter joke. You have to include all sport properties when talking about them. Its sad how they let a historical franchise sink so low, fumble with the basketball team over the years, and having one of the richest soccer team in the league .. well I am speechless. Thing is, in all entities we continually see repetition of mediocrity. They always fumble around and can't seem to get things right from the start on the given field of play.
It will be a great day in the city's history when MLSE ceases to exist.

[TFC07]

i don't know, I don't quite see it that way.
Yes they got the grass, but it was something people on many fronts were demanding. Kudos though for calling their contacts to make it happen.
However, overall MLSE, from a sporting perspective is a complete and utter joke. You have to include all sport properties when talking about them. Its sad how they let a historical franchise sink so low, fumble with the basketball team over the years, and having one of the richest soccer team in the league .. well I am speechless. Thing is, in all entities we continually see repetition of mediocrity. They always fumble around and can't seem to get things right from the start on the given field of play.
It will be a great day in the city's history when MLSE ceases to exist.

Fair enough.

[Beach_Red]

It will be a great day in the city's history when MLSE ceases to exist.




Well, you know I agree with this. A few things really showed me what we're dealing with and maybe the main one was stadiums. They have the country's "premiere" hockey team playing out of a building they said themselves was unsuitable for hockey until they bought the Raptors. They have a soccer team because of work done by others.

But we have to work with what we have. No one else in this city wll step forward to get into the sports business.

So, we can look at their past history and try and figure out if there's anything fans can do. And I think there is, I think they respond to fans' pressure as best they can figure it out. They did get grass. But they also got Doug Gilmour and Wendel Clark back on the team after their careers were essesntially over. Those weren't GM moves, they were to appease the fans. It's a lot easier to hire a favourite player or replace a GM than it is to win a championship. But that's all we ask for so it's all we get.

[boban]

But we have to work with what we have. No one else in this city wll step forward to get into the sports business.
That's not true. The problem is all the sports are all in one basket - MLSE. And their structure is designed to keep it a boys club among themselves.



But they also got Doug Gilmour and Wendel Clark back on the team after their careers were essesntially over. Those weren't GM moves, they were to appease the fans. It's a lot easier to hire a favourite player or replace a GM than it is to win a championship. But that's all we ask for so it's all we get.
People ask for those players because of the frustration of not winning. You ask for something small when you see the boys running the ship are incapable of getting the big prize.

[flatpicker]

Boy, am I ever nervous about this year.
I don't know if they there will be a season,
And even if there is, my expectations for Toronto are not very high.
I sure hope there is some good news over the next two weeks.

[Waggy]

If you'll permit me to it, a bit of theorizing. I don't buy this, mostly because I don't think Mo is smart enough to pull this off, but it IS possible, or at least plausible:


There are indications MLS had a hand in pushing the deal through, making the league's side look better during a crucial juncture of labour negotiations, expediting the process of finding the Players Union's poster-boy a new home.

Regardless, Serioux was left waiting for a deal to be consummated, hurt by TFC's failure to disclose accurate information.

It's implied that MLS wanted this issue to go away quickly and quietly to avoid giving the Players Union fodder and positive PR during the negotiations. However it seems TFC/MLSE resisted giving in to Garbers requests/demands/whatever for quite some time, before eventually giving in. But they didn't even just 'give in', they went and sent out a leak to Wheeler. Why would TFC do that? Well look what The Seattles/Torontos of the MLS would gain if the players can get the owners to give on some issues. Successful (off the pitch) teams would be able to take the money they make and re-invest it into the club, which would cause profits to SKYROCKET.

It would be going back to the old Leafs method of paying to be competitive and reaping in TV and merchandise money. Remember; the Leafs did make the conference finals twice under MLSE, and made the playoffs every year... until the spending was capped. They know how to do business in sports only by outspending competition, using their competitive advantage. After all, is TFC more profitable with 2.5 million expenditures on salary and whatever income there currently is; or with a 25 million expenditure on salary, constant playoff money coming in, national TV deals, sponsorship revenues going crazy and a larger stadium to accomodate all the fans willing to pay out the nose to see the Liverpool/Man U/AC Milan/pick your club of the MLS. People in Toronto will always support a winner. Not to mention the Jersey sales if they actually dropped 10-15 mil on a player ever.



That said, I've been a backer of Mo for the past few years, mostly due to the belief this club did need consistency to grow properly. It seems however that the club has grown as far as it can with Mo at the helm. If Preki is evaluating players anyways, then there is no need for Mo. Let Preki take the extra title for a bit and see if they can find someone to come here in the long term if that doesn't work out. Since MLS won't have an open market any time soon, the only way a club can use a financial competitive advantage is on everything BUT players. That means paying for as good a GM/Coach as is possible.



*And as an aside, the original plans for the ACC were for a basketball only venue, and the Raptors weren't going to allow the Leafs to alter much of the design if they did want to become tenants. It was going to be the Raptors building. That was actually a driving factor in the Leafs buying the Raptors; so they could get the rights to the stadium without having to deal with the government on anything (the land was already done, construction may have even started on the foundation). MLSE then altered the plans from a basketball only venue to a hockey venue that can accommodate basketball.

[ginkster88]

Your question was which would be more profitable. I think the answer is clearly to keep things as they are, spending minimum dollars for large returns (some of the largest in the league). Being able to spend $25 million does not, as you suggest, automatically ensure playoff money, national TV deals (which they already have), sponsorship revenue and a larger stadium... it only ensures that you will have to make at least $25 million to break even.

[boban]

*And as an aside, the original plans for the ACC were for a basketball only venue, and the Raptors weren't going to allow the Leafs to alter much of the design if they did want to become tenants. It was going to be the Raptors building. That was actually a driving factor in the Leafs buying the Raptors; so they could get the rights to the stadium without having to deal with the government on anything (the land was already done, construction may have even started on the foundation). MLSE then altered the plans from a basketball only venue to a hockey venue that can accommodate basketball.
The work was well under way when MLSE bought the Raptors and the ACC.
It is first and foremost a basketball arena that accommodates hockey. There was only so much MLSE could have done at that point. yes they put in the gondala and had a seat colour scheme simliar to MLG and other things. However they were mostly cosmetic. The bowl was set. It's a basketball arena.

[Waggy]

Ginkster; look at the Leafs. They were far more profitable when they were spending more. The added home dates, the ticket hikes you can justify (unlike the current ticket hikes you cant justify), the ad revenue. Sports is a business, you spend money you make money. If spending in Soccer didn't increase profitability, why does every succesful non MLS team spend money on players? You think Liverpools attendance would drastically drop off if they were 10th to 12th in the table instead of 5th or 6th? They're fighting for the extra games and the money/jersey sales they bring. Not to compare TFC to Liverpool or Champions/Europa League to MLS playoffs, but in terms of a scale model I mean. You think TFC is popular now, what do you think would happen if they challenged for titles annually? Even the Toronto Rock could sell out when they were winning. Besides the real money comes from ads and merch. Ad revenue comes from notoriety. Besides, the more successful the club, the less they need to spend on their own publicity, which would save funds. Plus a more successful club would easily require a larger stadium, or another 5-6000 paying customers per game for a one time cost of what, 6 million dollars? I know they have a kit sponsor now, and a stadium sponsor, and I know they sell the boards during the game. I remember hearing a figure of 10 mil profit last year? What happens if someones paying 5 mil a year for TFC to sport their logo on the players chests. 20 million isn't a high break even point for a strong pro sports franchise

Boban: The ACC isn't a basketball arena by sitelines, look at any of the actual basketball only venues around (there aren't many any more). The bowl would be constructed differently. Besides, the true value was in being the primary tenant. That's what makes it a hockey arena. You think the Raptors get first dibs on dates they want for home games? They would have if MLSE hadn't bought them and the stadium.

[denime]

Interesting how Today's news thread started with "no TFC news today" and here we are 5 pages in and still going.

Good job guys!:hurray:

[boban]

Boban: The ACC isn't a basketball arena by sitelines, look at any of the actual basketball only venues around (there aren't many any more). The bowl would be constructed differently. Besides, the true value was in being the primary tenant. That's what makes it a hockey arena. You think the Raptors get first dibs on dates they want for home games? They would have if MLSE hadn't bought them and the stadium.
The ACC, while under Slaight was made to ACCOMMODATE hockey in a basketball arena. There were no changes to the bowl to make hockey primary. From the outset it was basketball FIRST hockey second!! And remained so under MLSE with its design. MLSE changes for the Leafs were more cosmetic in the ACC (as mentioned previously).
MLSE could buy the SkyDome and put a hockey rink in there, that wouldn't make it a hockey arena primarily.
Anyway, MLSE continued with ACC because it was too far along in construction to make drastic changes or build their own arena somewhere else.

[MFG1]

Dudes! the writings on the wall I say we get these shirts to celebrate MO's fantastic work over the last three years. The price screams buy me.

http://6dollarshirts.com/t-shirts/Brick-Wall-Bustin-Thirst-Quenchin-p-11137.html

[ag futbol]

Can we embroil ``year 4 of the five year plan`` on the front?

[ag futbol]

Don`t ask me how .. but DC United is being Santos 2-0 54 min in ... at Santos.

http://twitter.com/dcunited

[ua-kozak_TFC]

I read in today's Toronto Sun that Serioux's rights were traded to Houston for a third round pick.

So Mo trades a 1st round pick (Teal Bunbury) and allocation money for Serioux and now we send his rights to Houston for a third round pick....

Well done Mo another great move on your part
I actually was JUST thinking that... i wondered how much we had to give up for serioux in the first place.

If someone see all this as good moves... This just goes to show you what mo has been doing the last 3 years... which is nothing. Because he knows NOTHING. He would just shut the fans up with a deal once in a while which would give him few month of "gel" time... What a disgrace. All this RObbo, Serious, garcia... just goes to show you how good Mo's managing is...

Anybody who still believes in him, I got some news to break for you Santa won;t be coming this fall...

[ua-kozak_TFC]

Adrian says that contract talks stopped dead only when Preki arrived and Mo handed over all soccer-related responsibilities to him.

While this begs the question of what the fuck Mo still does at TFC, it seems like Adrian's issue is more with Preki than with Mo.
I think what he meant by that is that when the new coach arrived there was no more talks but that doesn;t mean that Preki didn;t want him. From this it seems that Mo is the one who wanted end it... "Everyone's not on the same page (at TFC). Some people wanted me, except the one person that has more power than anyone else."

[Boondaddy]

Sutton to Shite Bulls....

http://redbullsreader.wordpress.com/2010/03/11/red-bulls-ink-gk-greg-sutton/

GOOD LUCK TO HIM!!

[Boondaddy]

^oops, wrong day :facepalm: