Robbo to NYRB

[RicoSuave44]

Good luck Carl. All the best in New Jersey

[Pigfynn]

WTF? source?

What did we get for him?

[ag futbol]

I just found one: http://threefourthreefc.wordpress.com/2010/03/06/rbny-get-carl-robinson-in-exchange-for-draft-picks/

Not sure about credibility

[ArmenJBX]

Troll perhaps?

[Pigfynn]

^ No, I don't think so.

[ArmenJBX]

Well then we need a source, otherwise it's just talk

[Pigfynn]

From Carl's twitter yesterday...might be a clue:

Beautiful day!!!!!!! about 22 hours ago (http://twitter.com/CarlRobinson33/status/10035686573)via web

[ArmenJBX]

looks like he's in a fight with Dichio based on some other tweets..\



@DannyDichio (http://twitter.com/DannyDichio) Do me a favour please!!!! Never repeat that stupid statement again... 11:27 AM Feb 22nd (http://twitter.com/CarlRobinson33/status/9489477017) via web in reply to DannyDichio (http://twitter.com/DannyDichio/status/9460064395)

[JDG]

looks like he's in a fight with Dichio based on some other tweets..\



@DannyDichio (http://twitter.com/DannyDichio) Do me a favour please!!!! Never repeat that stupid statement again... 11:27 AM Feb 22nd (http://twitter.com/CarlRobinson33/status/9489477017)via web in reply to DannyDichio (http://twitter.com/DannyDichio/status/9460064395)



There was nothing serious going on there. It was during the olympics, and Robbo asked Danny who he'd cheer for if Italy were up against England, and Dichio retorted that it would be the same problem as Robbo would have if Wales played England.

[RicoSuave44]

Me troll? Pal I've been here since day 1. You guys should know by now, Rico don't need no proof.

[ArmenJBX]

Sorry man, I didn't mean to offend you or anything :D

[Pigfynn]

Would be nice if you could at least share how you know...no names needed of course.

[RicoSuave44]

Ugh. Hungover and gotta go to work. In a couple months it'll be hungover and gotta go to TFC :D :D :D

[Jack]

Looks like this is happening (from a pretty solid source).

[Pigfynn]

Draft picks though? lame

[ManUtd4ever]

Looks like this is happening (from a pretty solid source).

I'm sorry to hear that...

[BeerBaron95]

Me troll? Pal I've been here since day 1. You guys should know by now, Rico don't need no proof.


Talking in the 3rd person is usually pretty strange, but typing in the 3rd person is worse. :facepalm: (lol just kidding)

as for Robinson story... deal is rumored to be Robinson to NYRB in exchange for a 2nd round pick.

will have to see.

[rocker]

if this indeed is in place then TFC should have no difficulty signing any trialists even before the CBA is signed, as this would remove another 300K off the books. I know they already removed a lot from the books (Vitti, for example) but some of that may have been paid for by long-since spent allocation -- not cap -- money. Carl's is probably 300K directly against the cap.

[Nuvinho]

I don't know if I am happy or sad about this.

1. We gain $300K in cap space
2. Less defensive midfielders competing for playing time
3. We are losing a warrior, great character guy
4. Don't like that he is going to NYRB...Its gonna be even tougher to beat them now

[ag futbol]

I don't know if I am happy or sad about this.

1. We gain $300K in cap space
2. Less defensive midfielders competing for playing time
3. We are losing a warrior, great character guy
4. Don't like that he is going to NYRB...Its gonna be even tougher to beat them now
I don't know if we can even claim #1 is true. I think we blew our allocation last year and now we have to get back under the cap.

[Nuvinho]

Ives:

SoccerByIves (http://twitter.com/SoccerByIves)

Toronto FC parted ways w/ Carl Robinson, who I hear is going on trial w/ RBNY. NY would have likely have to deal TFC something 4 his rights

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Im sad to see him go but i do think it was necessary and time, we'd better see some bloody GOOD signings soon (also im not psyched on the draft pick nonsense but whatever)

[Nuvinho]

I don't know if we can even claim #1 is true. I think we blew our allocation last year and now we have to get back under the cap.

based on last year's salaries, we have 19 players under contract with a total cap use of $2.164M (this includes Robbo's salary).

[Pigfynn]

Ives:

SoccerByIves (http://twitter.com/SoccerByIves)

Toronto FC parted ways w/ Carl Robinson, who I hear is going on trial w/ RBNY. NY would have likely have to deal TFC something 4 his rights

:facepalm:

[v00d00daddy]

Oh how I hope this is true. I also really hope that it means his salary comes off the books.

I wonder why there aren't a bunch of MLS teams lining up to pay 300k to "one of the best DM's in the entire league"?

Pffft.....now we'll see what his true value is. Let's see where Robbo ends up, how much he gets paid, and how much he plays. (oh, and how many POTY awards he wins)

:D

[reggie]

good luck robbo..
maybe we will get confirmation from tfc by weds or thurs.
wtf does the front office do anyway,its not like they have to sell tickets or anything.

[Nuvinho]

So does this mean if he doesn't stick with NYRBs, his salary is still on our books?

callitfootball (http://twitter.com/callitfootball)

As has been told to me: Carl Robinson will trial with New York - if he sticks, Toronto FC gets draft picks in exchange for his rights

[canadian_bhoy]

It's going to leave a serious hole both in out starting 11 and in the locker room.

I'm glad for Robbo that he gets to play in NJ at that new stadium instead of somewhere like KC or Columbus.

Really sucks, Robbo should have finished his career here.

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/sports/photos/2008/10/24/robinson-carl-080913xl.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2561/3803070486_f57fe1de77.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/170/376963989_8d625c567b.jpg

Cue the Green Day song.

[rocker]

good luck robbo..
maybe we will get confirmation from tfc by weds or thurs.
wtf does the front office do anyway,its not like they have to sell tickets or anything.

huh? the thing just happened seconds ago and you're demanding confirmation on a saturday at noon? Sheesh!

If you've been watching TFC TV you'll see lots of content, and even a recent video update on players from Luke Wileman.

[Nuvinho]

SoccerByIves (http://twitter.com/SoccerByIves)

Red Bulls considered Robinson deal last year. could be good addition if inexpensive + fit. Osorio questioned fitness before passing on deal

[rocker]

My dad disliked Carl Robinson's play with a passion.
I actually defended Carl in seasons one and two while my German soccer coach father complained in my ear every time... but it was hard to do in Year 3.
His complaints basically involved Robinson's passing ability and treating the ball like a hot potato when he got it.
I argued that Robinson did this to get things moving, and that his teammates weren't thinking fast enough. But sometimes it was hard to defend that position.

[Nuvinho]

johnston_tfc (http://twitter.com/johnston_tfc)

Just spoke with #sportsnetsoccer (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23sportsnetsoccer), any Robbo signing in NY will mean TFC picks up chunk of his salary.




This would suck.

[BeerBaron95]

Consider it cued..... lol

3g0RpOiHEMM

[rocker]

johnston_tfc (http://twitter.com/johnston_tfc)

Just spoke with #sportsnetsoccer (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23sportsnetsoccer), any Robbo signing in NY will mean TFC picks up chunk of his salary.




This would suck.

if it's 50K-100K then it's still not a bad thing.

[Nuvinho]

^ We will be paying half his salary.

sportsnetsoccer (http://twitter.com/sportsnetsoccer)

With Carl Robinson gone to NY, expect TFC to pay half his 300K salary and use the other half to bring in another player

[v00d00daddy]

^ We will be paying half his salary.

sportsnetsoccer (http://twitter.com/sportsnetsoccer)

With Carl Robinson gone to NY, expect TFC to pay half his 300K salary and use the other half to bring in another player


Shitty news.

[rocker]

^ We will be paying half his salary.

sportsnetsoccer (http://twitter.com/sportsnetsoccer)

With Carl Robinson gone to NY, expect TFC to pay half his 300K salary and use the other half to bring in another player

That sucks, but it doesn't really matter.... as long as the player who gets the rest of that money is appropriately valued. Robinson at 300K is overvalued in this league. So if they sign Kayizzi, for example, at 150K and the guy fits the system well and makes a real contribution, then he's worth 150K and overall the team improves.

[Keystone FC]

Good Luck Carl.

[MUFC_Niagara]

Oh how I hope this is true. I also really hope that it means his salary comes off the books.

I wonder why there aren't a bunch of MLS teams lining up to pay 300k to "one of the best DM's in the entire league"?

Pffft.....now we'll see what his true value is. Let's see where Robbo ends up, how much he gets paid, and how much he plays. (oh, and how many POTY awards he wins)

:D

Do you have to be a fucking troll all of the time? A simple, "Good luck Carl" would have done just fine. Even if you don't appreciate what he did for this team you can at least respect the effort. Let's NOT turn this into a shit on Robbo thread.

[drewski]

24thminute (http://twitter.com/24thminute)
So, folks...TFC will be PAYING for Carl Robinson to tackle O'Brien White when the Red Bulls come to Toronto this year. No comment.

[Pigfynn]

Do you have to be a fucking troll all of the time? A simple, "Good luck Carl" would have done just fine. Even if you don't appreciate what he did for this team you can at least respect the effort. Let's NOT turn this into a shit on Robbo thread.


A-fucking men!

Get a new hobby buddy

[prizby]

if Robo was traded to NYRB, i'd want a first round pick, although if NYRB took Nick Garcia as well, then i'd just ask for a 4th round pick

[Pigfynn]

if they took Garcia AND his salary I would be thrilled and ask for nothing in return

[backbeat]

if Robo was traded to NYRB, i'd want a first round pick, although if NYRB took Nick Garcia as well, then i'd just ask for a 4th round pick


geez, i'd GIVE them a 4th round pick!! :D

[SteeltownBhoy]

Robo contract must be guaranteed, no team is going to take on 300,000!! So I bet Toronto will eat half!! That and a second round draft choice from Energy Drink!!

My worst nightmare, NYRB win at BMO 1-NIL Sutton gets the clean sheet Robo scores in extra time!!

Sigh, well good luck Robo you where always a true professional.

[ManUtd4ever]

^ We will be paying half his salary.

sportsnetsoccer (http://twitter.com/sportsnetsoccer)

With Carl Robinson gone to NY, expect TFC to pay half his 300K salary and use the other half to bring in another player

I'm not sure this deal would make any sense at all if TFC is on the hook for half his salary. While I have always valued Robbo's contribution to TFC on and off the pitch, I conceed that 300K can be spent more wisely at the present time. However, I doubt 150K will be enough to replace a player of Robbo's caliber...

[Pookie]

4. Don't like that he is going to NYRB...Its gonna be even tougher to beat them now

Well, not to disrespect a guy who can kick it better than I ever could but we weren't that tough to beat with him in OUR line up, why would we be concerned about him being in theirs?

[v00d00daddy]

Do you have to be a fucking troll all of the time? A simple, "Good luck Carl" would have done just fine. Even if you don't appreciate what he did for this team you can at least respect the effort. Let's NOT turn this into a shit on Robbo thread.

How am I trolling? Whatever bud. I'm glad he's gone. I've wanted this for a long time. Sorry if it offends you.

[v00d00daddy]

A-fucking men!

Get a new hobby buddy


if they took Garcia AND his salary I would be thrilled and ask for nothing in return


Who needs a new hobby?

What the fuck does this thread have to do with Nick Garcia?

Hilarious.

[TFC FORZA RPB]

awesome!!!

[TFC07]

Have fun in New Jersey! :scarf:

[Darlofletch]

I don't really like this, especially with us paying half his salary, but the 150,000 can hopefully be spent on someone who plays a position we need, so I guess it's for the best.

good luck to him though, hopefully he and sutton will get a decent reception when ny comes to town.

[TFCtoMUFC]

I'm cool with picking up 150k next year. He would've been 300k on the bench.

[AL-MO]

I was well aware of Robbo's shortcomings, but I am still a bit sad how this all happened.

Dichio treated like crap while he is pushed out, now Robbo...

I think we all know who is responsible for it.

[rocker]

However, I doubt 150K will be enough to replace a player of Robbo's caliber...

but 150K was about Robbo's value in MLS terms. So as long as Mojo doesn't do his usual overvaluing of players, then 150K should be enough to find someone to replace Robbo.

There are many players already in MLS who are as good, if not better, than Robbo and who make 150K or less.

[Nuvinho]

^Martin Saric? Didn't Mo said something about wanting to sign him.

[v00d00daddy]

but 150K was about Robbo's value in MLS terms. So as long as Mojo doesn't do his usual overvaluing of players, then 150K should be enough to find someone to replace Robbo.

There are many players already in MLS who are as good, if not better, than Robbo and who make 150K or less.


I don't think we need to replace Robbo..that part of the field is already covered. We need to fill other holes with that money.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

I'll miss him, good time to be going to NYRB. I hate to say it, I like their jerseys.

[Yohan]

sad that Robbo is leaving, but 150k is enough to buy a MLS starter CB...

[olegunnar]

That sucks, but it doesn't really matter.... as long as the player who gets the rest of that money is appropriately valued. Robinson at 300K is overvalued in this league. So if they sign Kayizzi, for example, at 150K and the guy fits the system well and makes a real contribution, then he's worth 150K and overall the team improves.

I disagree

In real terms that 150K player will really be a $300K player because that's what they'll cost.
$150 in salary and $150k to pay to clear the roster spot.

Theres no way to spin this positively. Yet again we're at a disadvantage because of Mo's "bad" signings and mismanagement of the salary cap.

It's not Robbo's fault he had a relatively (for MLS terms) lucrative contract.

[AL-MO]

sad that Robbo is leaving, but 150k is enough to buy a MLS starter CB...

Yes. It has to be used to improve one of our weaknesses!

[ensco]

Don't want to jump to conclusions but....this isn't right unless Robbo had a say in his destination. The guy brought his family over and has laid down roots here.

I don't love Robbo's game and am OK with this from a personnel standpoint. But I don't think we've done much to make ourselves a preferred destination for internationals in our 3+ years.

Also, what happens if NYRB don't take him after the trial? Does Robbo just go home and we pay him $300K? This seems like a very real, and ugly, possibility.

[koryo]

So, let's sum this up: Robbo goes and we eat half his salary. Johnston strikes again. How can he keep is position after letting himself, and all of us, take it up the backside like this?

Robinson didn't perform at all well last season, but before that was as steady as anyone else on this team. We'll miss his character. You might not think so now, but we will.

And try to refrain from shitting on him for the moment.

[SteeltownBhoy]

Ensco makes a good point, even at 150,000 K Energy Drink still may decide to take a pass.

If it is a guaranteed contract, which I think we assume it is, TFC still on the hook for 300,000 for a player they don't want!!!

[rocker]

I disagree

In real terms that 150K player will really be a $300K player because that's what they'll cost.
$150 in salary and $150k to pay to clear the roster spot.

Theres no way to spin this positively. Yet again we're at a disadvantage because of Mo's "bad" signings and mismanagement of the salary cap.

It's not Robbo's fault he had a relatively (for MLS terms) lucrative contract.

if you get a good player with the 150K then it comes out better for the team.

Robinson was overpaid because you don't lure a guy with a family away from a solid career in another country without enticing him with a way comparable to that country.

But as we've seen time and again in MLS, teams can find players for 150K that are worth that money or more. The trick now, to lessen the impact (since as you say, TFC still pays 150K for robbo for a year) is to find a player that can contribute more than Robbo did.

I mean, shit, Kyle Beckerman made 160K last year and was superior to Robbo. If you found a player like that, you'd have more value than Robbo was making at 300K. Wilman Conde made 168K and I'd contend he was a better player than Robbo. Eddie Gaven made 173K and he was a better player than Robbo.

While I'm not confident Mo will find someone to play above his value, the 150K loss wouldn't be such a big deal if the incoming player contributed more than Robbo did.

[ilikemusic]

Is he really gone?!

:hump:

I dont care if we have to pay him. Not having Robinson on the pitch is worth the price.

[barca99]

Good Luck Robbo, although I don't think he'll be causing TFC problems in the future. A warrior on the pitch whose time had simply passed.

Cheers

[Redpunkfiddle]

As I see it, we have De Guzman and Cronin in the central midfield, with Sanyang as backup. Let Cronin be the primary DM and let De Guzman have flexibility to move up the field. Sure, we actually need to fill out our squad to be able to depend on this scheme, but Robbo just isn't value for money with these other players here.

I have no doubt that he'll be a loss in the locker room. Its a shame, but we are dancing with the team that we brung.

[Blizzard]

if you get a good player with the 150K then it comes out better for the team.

Robinson was overpaid because you don't lure a guy with a family away from a solid career in another country without enticing him with a way comparable to that country.

But as we've seen time and again in MLS, teams can find players for 150K that are worth that money or more. The trick now, to lessen the impact (since as you say, TFC still pays 150K for robbo for a year) is to find a player that can contribute more than Robbo did.

I mean, shit, Kyle Beckerman made 160K last year and was superior to Robbo. If you found a player like that, you'd have more value than Robbo was making at 300K. Wilman Conde made 168K and I'd contend he was a better player than Robbo. Eddie Gaven made 173K and he was a better player than Robbo.

While I'm not confident Mo will find someone to play above his value, the 150K loss wouldn't be such a big deal if the incoming player contributed more than Robbo did.

What it comes down to in the end is TFC could not pay Robbo 300k to sit on the bench. If Preki wanted him on his 11, Robbo would not be moved. If Preki didn't want him on his 11 and it was either move him or spend 300k on a bench player, then you have to take the next step and that is to make the best out of a less than optimal situation.

We have to take a hit of 100-150k, ok, but at least we have cap space and that is the prime consideration right now IMO. The draft pick is helpful too of course but cap space is the most important thing right now as this club is rebuilt.

[Waggy]

Question for the capologists out there. If we send NYRB $150k to cover half of Robbos salary as part of the transaction, are we sure it counts against the cap? Or is it just 150k out of MLSE's wallet?

[nascarguy]

he was getting old anyway and I think that he was going to be let go. It's good that we got something for him now

[Hitcho]

I'm very sad to see Robbo go. Was hoping to see him and Jimmy play out their final season here and join the coaching team in some capacity.

Best of luck Robbo, legend for us in our first couple of seasons. That will never be forgotten.

[Roogsy]

looks like he's in a fight with Dichio based on some other tweets..\



@DannyDichio (http://twitter.com/DannyDichio) Do me a favour please!!!! Never repeat that stupid statement again... 11:27 AM Feb 22nd (http://twitter.com/CarlRobinson33/status/9489477017)via web in reply to DannyDichio (http://twitter.com/DannyDichio/status/9460064395)


LOL! Because two grown men who are professional athletes would have a fight over twitter. :rolleyes:

They're just taking the piss out of each other dude.

[Roogsy]

Best wishes to you Carl...thank you for your time and service to Toronto.

[S_D]

Question for the capologists out there. If we send NYRB $150k to cover half of Robbos salary as part of the transaction, are we sure it counts against the cap? Or is it just 150k out of MLSE's wallet?

all salaries are paid by MLS.

So we have a cap of $X + allocation $$, New cap = $X-150K + allocation $$

The one good thing about this is if a new player is brought in allocation can be spent to bring down their salary by up to 1/2. So from my understanding,

Robbo's salary = 300K
We pay half = 150K
We bring in a player from outside the league, pay them 150K, allocation can pay off 75k of that, leaving 75K from the salary cap cash for someone else or to cover salary increases of existing players etc.

[Dirk Diggler]

I am ecstatic to see that we managed to get Robbo traded but at that price? That does not seem like a trade worth making. I highly doubt that we have anyone good lined up for that $150,000 ... not to mention that, as olegunar stated, he would actually cost $300,000 in real terms.

[Parkdale]

carl - that jersey of yours that I won in a bet... It better not be an NYRB one.

Sigh. Watch NYRB win it all this year. Sigh.

[jvanpeebles]

carl was a class act on the pitch and highly valued in the dressing room. The De Guzman signing was the writing on the wall. Cronin certainly still has a lot of upside and much cheaper than Robinson. Makes sense from that perspective. I am more concerned that we are one less player and a day closer to the beginning of the season.

[Brooker]

not to mention that, as olegunar stated, he would actually cost $300,000 in real terms.

but a much better 300k if we used it in a spot like CB, instead of our overcrowded midfield where Robbo isn't nearly as useful as he was.

that aside, i love that guy! thanks robbo. good luck @ energy drink!

[Lucky Strike]

If this is true, on an emotional front, this completely sucks, Robbo was a TFC original, a hard worker and definitely made a good impact on this club. Always gave his all and a professional. I'll miss him and wish him good luck in the future. Maybe he can still come back and have an off-field role with the club after he retires.

From a management perspective, you never like to pay money for someone to play for another team, but it seems necessary. With De Duzman signing, Cronin showing he belongs at this level and Sanyang as cover, the writing was on the wall. And at 300K, it was an eventuality that TFC would have to eat part of the salary to move him. He had two great years, no one can deny that. But by the same token, it was obvious that he struggled in year 3. So coupled with the amount of players we have at the DM position, this had to be done.

With 150K, if you shop smart, you can purchase one very good player, two good/useful players or three depth players. With Preki's help and his history of rifling through the discount bin and getting those players to highly perform, this has the makings of a very good move. In terms of talent, we lose nothing (not to say Robbo has no talent or is worthless) but we have other players that are as good or better and it leaves cap space to improve this team significantly.

It's a tough thing to face losing Robbo, but I believe the right thing at this point in time.

[Cashcleaner]

Really sorry to see Robinson go. The guy did way more than just fill a position on the field, he was an integral part of the club as a whole. Like Lucky Strike remarked, the deal with NYRB just makes sense for the club right now. Perhaps things would be different if the cap was higher or we were in a position to shift some other player around, but at the end of the day, the club has to do what's best for itself and I respect the decision.

Robinson will always be remembered as a TFC player that put the effort in for every game and wanted the club to succeed. For that, he will always get my respect.

[rocker]

If that 150K goes to a solid winger (Kayizi, Saric? I haven't seen them enough), then we're a better team than at the end of 2009, in my opinion, even if the other 150K goes straight to NYRB. Anyhow, TFC has ripped off other teams for allocation money in the past, so it all evens out financially in the end. TFC also must have got one of those "you didn't make the playoffs" allocations in the offseason.

But hopefully MoJo doesn't overpay for whoever gets that 150K. I doubt any player can really complain about the salaries they made at TFC. Very few players have been underpaid by MLS standards.

[CretanBull]

Don't mistake this as a defense for Mo Jo because I think that he's done a terrible job with contracts, but comparing what Robo made with what other players made is pointless. Robo had to be talked into moving his family from one continent to another to play for an expansion team on a plastic pitch in a league that had even less credibility 3 years ago. Additionally, we have to remind ourselves that Canada and America have different tax laws and Toronto - as much as we love it - isn't exactly the "American" dream that Europeans have. In the end, we pay what WE have to pay, not what Chicago has to pay.

[bgnewf]

Brian Burke took over as Toronto Maple Leafs GM and his first job is to explain to the fans what his approach to building the Buds will be.

Burke came to town and laid out in broad brushstrokes what his intentions were. He understood that it was important to make sure that the fan base of the Leafs at least felt that there was a plan and that there was some sort of logic/theme with the moves being made.

Mo Johnston has been the complete opposite of Brian Burke in this regard.

I am not naive enough to think that we will ever see from Mo anything like this. There have been moves made this off season in particular that scream out for this kind of context. Robbo getting let go in this particular way he has is just another in the long line of moves that make me scratch my head trying to place them into some sort of coherent picture or plan for the future of the club. I see no such plan. That is the greatest tragedy of all about this club. here we are in year four and we still have no real true idea of where this club is headed.

I wish Carl Robinson nothing but the best wherever he plays. I want to thank him for being the professional he has been for Toronto FC. You will be missed sir.

[Darlofletch]

Brian Burke took over as Toronto Maple Leafs GM and his first job is to explain to the fans what his approach to building the Buds will be.

Burke came to town and laid out in broad brushstrokes what his intentions were. He understood that it was important to make sure that the fan base of the Leafs at least felt that there was a plan and that there was some sort of logic/theme with the moves being made.

Mo Johnston has been the complete opposite of Brian Burke in this regard.

I am not naive enough to think that we will ever see from Mo anything like this. There have been moves made this off season in particular that scream out for this kind of context. Robbo getting let go in this particular way he has is just another in the long line of moves that make me scratch my head trying to place them into some sort of coherent picture or plan for the future of the club. I see no such plan. That is the greatest tragedy of all about this club. here we are in year four and we still have no real true idea of where this club is headed.

I wish Carl Robinson nothing but the best wherever he plays. I want to thank him for being the professional he has been for Toronto FC. You will be missed sir.

Mo Johnston is our John Ferguson Jr/Rob Babcock. Hopefully our next gm will be a bit more like burke/Colangelo. It's not the MLSE way to get things right quickly.

[jimiv]

...and yet Garcia is still here. :facepalm:

[johnmolinaro]

Carl is a class guy both on and off the field. There's wasn't anybody on the team that was more respected amongst the players than he was.

It's a big loss for the team, IMO.

John

[Whoop]

Good luck Carl.

You were a true professional. You will be missed.

[Shakes McQueen]

Don't want to jump to conclusions but....this isn't right unless Robbo had a say in his destination. The guy brought his family over and has laid down roots here.

I don't love Robbo's game and am OK with this from a personnel standpoint. But I don't think we've done much to make ourselves a preferred destination for internationals in our 3+ years.

Also, what happens if NYRB don't take him after the trial? Does Robbo just go home and we pay him $300K? This seems like a very real, and ugly, possibility.

I agree that this has been yet another mishandled situation by Mo Johnston.

I disagree though, that Carl bringing his family over or laying roots down in Canada should matter at all. It shouldn't. He's a professional athlete, and a well compensated one. This stuff comes with the territory, and he knew what his contract stipulated when he signed it. These aren't exchange students that we need to coddle.

But from the perspective of Robbo being one of this team's more beloved players, and a well respected one at that? This is totally shambolic management on Mo's part. Once again we've seen another well known TFC face quietly discarded, and Robbo has maintained enough class not to say anything publicly about it.

I agree his contract is a pretty lousy one, but that is ALSO on Mo's head.

Fire the Scottish git already. Fuck it pisses me off that he's seriously still our GM.

- Scott

[ag futbol]

The extremely sketchy blog that was near the start of this whole thing is reporting TFC would absorb north of 200k .


UPDATE- Toronto FC will absorb north of 200k while New York Will only absorb a bit over 100k. Exact figures are still a bit unknown but this gives everyone a good idea of the great deal that NYRB has pulled off, knowing that all it really gave up was some draft picks. All in all new Red Bull management have been making the right moves this offseason and we can’t really do anything else but applaud the efforts of the new crew in charge. Some might consider this view a bit premature, but it certainly looks pretty clear that the boat is steering in a specific direction and all signs point to it being the correct one.
http://threefourthreefc.wordpress.com/2010/03/06/rbny-get-carl-robinson-in-exchange-for-draft-picks/

[Shakes McQueen]

So if that's true, we are going to end up paying for one of TFC's most beloved players, to play for one of our most hated rivals.

Now THAT is cap/team management.

- Scott

[ag futbol]

I disagree though, that Carl bringing his family over or laying roots down in Canada should matter at all. It shouldn't. He's a professional athlete, and a well compensated one. This stuff comes with the territory, and he knew what his contract stipulated when he signed it. These aren't exchange students that we need to coddle.

This is a grey area in sports. Just because you're making good money doesn't mean you simply ignore what's happening every other second of your life. In north america they give players less control over this, in europe they have more, but it still matters.

Players definitely take note about their peers are handled by an organization and by this measure TFC and MLS are an abysmal failure.

[Dirk Diggler]

So we are now paying 2/3 of his salary? Outstanding ...

[Shakes McQueen]

This is a grey area in sports. Just because you're making good money doesn't mean you simply ignore what's happening every other second of your life. In north america they give players less control over this, in europe they have more, but it still matters.

Players definitely take note about their peers are handled by an organization and by this measure TFC and MLS are an abysmal failure.

I agree that his departure was badly mishandled. What I disagree with, is that the organization should consider stuff like whether Carl's family has set up roots in Canada, or whether they like it here, when making personnel decisions.

If I'm a GM, and I see a legit move to make my team better, I won't hesitate to make a trade. That's the business. Of course, what I won't do, is handle you the player with the same level of utter disrespect and deception that Mo does.

I will do what I can to make sure you leave on good terms with the club, and give you an opportunity to thank the fans and the city for the support. I won't shuffle you off to a bitter rival in the silence of night, and not let anyone know.

I guess that's what I meant.

- Scott

[ag futbol]

^ Yeah I agree ,you need a pragmatic approach.

I think you use it as a bargaining tool, if you can where necessary, not go around calling yourself a family organization and cover everybody with sunshine, flowers, and bullshit.

Where we've been pretty bad at handling players in the past however, we've probably lost our credibility in the area.

[Shakes McQueen]

^ Yeah I agree ,you need a pragmatic approach.

I think you use it as a bargaining tool, if you can where necessary, not go around calling yourself a family organization and cover everybody with sunshine, flowers, and bullshit.

Where we've been pretty bad at handling players in the past however, we've probably lost our credibility in the area.

If that's the case, the first step to healing that perception, is to turf the GM.

I swear man, if this season looks like another disappointment, we need to make as much noise as humanly possible about removing Mo.

- Scott

[v00d00daddy]

If that's the case, the first step to healing that perception, is to turf the GM.

I swear man, if this season looks like another disappointment, we need to make as much noise as humanly possible about removing Mo.

- Scott


Agreed about Mo.

As for how TFC is handling getting rid of popular players....what else can be done?

Do we really want to be a place where we drum up spots within the organization for every player of significance?

Dichio is a coach now.
What's going to happen with Brennan?
What about DeRo? (eventually)
Add Robbo to this mix and the TFC staff becomes some kind of mockery of a retirement home.

I think the important players need a nice send off (Robbo included) but I don't think the club needs to find a place for them when they're no longer needed.

Treating the players like family is all nice and good but first things first...I want a cohesive, talented, successful team. Once we get that we can start to worry about giving retiring players cushy "ambassador" type jobs.

If we suck again this year (by this year I mean by June/July), Mo has got to go.

[ag futbol]

If that's the case, the first step to healing that perception, is to turf the GM.

I swear man, if this season looks like another disappointment, we need to make as much noise as humanly possible about removing Mo.

- Scott
Honestly I've hated Mo Johnston for the longest time, but i'm just going to wait and see how this plays out. I still vent my bitterness here and there, but generally i just want us to be out on the field playing.

I will derive no satisfaction from us being crappy, so no point in getting upset in advance.

[Chevy]

My dad disliked Carl Robinson's play with a passion.
I actually defended Carl in seasons one and two while my German soccer coach father complained in my ear every time... but it was hard to do in Year 3.
His complaints basically involved Robinson's passing ability and treating the ball like a hot potato when he got it.
I argued that Robinson did this to get things moving, and that his teammates weren't thinking fast enough. But sometimes it was hard to defend that position.

Bring your old man down to 110, and a free beer shall be his. I too have tired of the hot potato routine.

[Shakes McQueen]

I loved Carl's ability to win balls, and I think he added some much needed steel to our defense.

That said, his passing was godawful. If he liked play CB, his skillset was better suited for it.

- Scott

[Jamaicanadian]

When I take emotion outta the equation: I think the peeps that mentioned JDG, Cronin & Sanyang hit the nail on the head!

When I leave emotion in the equation......If he's really gone Imma miss CR in the squad...seemed like a great guy who gave 110 for 90 minutes, and more!

NUFF RESPECT!

[bertal]

i'd rather wait for the 'official' word

[Whoop]

I agree about his playing ability but he seemed like a classy individual. We'll see how it plays out.

[Blazer]

Our gain is NYRB's loss.

[jloome]

It's a significant loss of a class player. At the same time, I wonder whether paying that portion of his salary if he plays for New York nevertheless allows his full salary to be free'd under the cap.

If so, this might be a pure necessity to properly strengthen the team, by allowing room to sign a couple of extra players from the trialists.

Funnily, this was actually rumoured to be a draft trade last year.

[Alonso]

Robo contract must be guaranteed, no team is going to take on 300,000!! So I bet Toronto will eat half!! That and a second round draft choice from Energy Drink!!

My worst nightmare, NYRB win at BMO 1-NIL Sutton gets the clean sheet Robo scores in extra time!!

Sigh, well good luck Robo you where always a true professional.


Are we all in agreement that garuanteed contracts should never be given out by MLSE EVER (and if so, very, VERY, infrequently) again?

How many times do they have to be burned with the Leafs and TFC for them to see this... its just not worth losing your flexibilty for long periods of time!

PULL YOUR HEADS OUT FROM YOUR ASSES MLSE! You look like a bunch of fools...

As for Carl, thanks for the memories...

[CretanBull]

^The portion of his salary that we pay will count against our cap...if it didn't it would be a HUGE loop hole that teams would exploit.

[ManUtd4ever]

If the entirety of Robbo's 300K contract is available cap space than this move can bolster the roster in other areas...

[wzhxvy]

I dont know what to feel or think about this....just hoping there is a plan behind all this and not the usual. Trying to be positive...

[Phil]

A true captain of this team even if unrecognised.

All the best to him.

[RedsYNWA]

WOW I feel a reduction in points this season...and not because of Robinson but because Mo mortgaged the farm last season. We have lost far more than we have gained...oh well at least the World cup is coming

[pepher]

I hate to seem him go... especially to another team in MLS. Good luck Carl... I guess I'll retire my Robbo jersey's. All the best,

[felipe]

This sucks

[Bars92]

I feel like the original TFC lineup is pretty much eroded away now, except for Jimmy B. When I think of this team, Robinson, Dichio, Brennan are what comes to mind. Hopefully this is all giving rise to the new, improved TFC, DeRo, DeGuzman and some striker that is yet to be proven.

[dow117]

I loved Carl's ability to win balls, and I think he added some much needed steel to our defense.

That said, his passing was godawful. If he liked play CB, his skillset was better suited for it.

- Scott

His passing appeared "godawful" but he probably made more passes than anyone on the team as he moved the ball quickly. I bet his passing % was right up there ... Also, this guy gave 110% , fierce and vocal on the pitch. He could have had another year here.... another classy move from the Toronto corporate suits !!!

[CretanBull]

^There was also an issue with chemistry...often he'd make the right pass but the reciever wasn't where he should have been - as a team our off the ball movement was terrible. Also, his job was to break up plays which meant pretty much every pass that he made was under pressure of the attacking team scrambling to regain the ball that he'd just taken from them.

Of course, its a lot harder for people to actually think about the game that they're watching and easier to just comment on what's happening without understanding the context.

[cuecas_red]

Also, what happens if NYRB don't take him after the trial? Does Robbo just go home and we pay him $300K? This seems like a very real, and ugly, possibility.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/03/06/sp-tfcrobinson.html


If Robinson, 33, signs with New York, Toronto would still be responsible for paying a portion of his salary, but would receive an undisclosed number of draft picks from the Red Bulls in exchange.They only pay if he stays with NYRB

[Oldtimer]

I like Robbo a lot, but actually it's not necessarily a bad thing to trade him.

(1) For him personally, he might actually like the chance to spend a year in New York. New York is a great place to live for a year, his family will treasure the experience. Their team is now playing on real grass in a stadium that is much better than BMO Field, and turfed their own bad management last year and now he doesn't have to deal with Mo. He still gets $300K no matter what. I could see him really liking this move.

(2) MLSE has failed in the past by hanging on to "fan favourites" for wayyy to long. So if they get rid of an aging player they should be commended, not condemned (and if Mo didn't have such a bad track record, we'd probably be willing to give him some credit).

(3) The team needed to shed some midfielders (we all knew that last year). Given that JDG can play the holding role 10x better than Robbo, and add some offensive ability as well, it makes tonnes of sense to shed a $300k contract. In fact, its so obvious that Preki should be fired if he didn't request Robbo to be moved, plain and simple.

(4) Giving up $150-$200k in allocation for a couple of draft picks is actually a fair deal. We all know that Mo (if he is still around next year) is a great drafter (even if he's a lousy GM), he can do something great with those picks.

So as much as it pains us to see Robbo go to a hated rival, it looks like a decent move in every way.

[Nuvinho]

is is draft picks or draft picks we are getting? It is probably conditional (don't know if MLS allows that, but they change the rules daily) based on # of minutes played, if NYRB make the playoffs, etc.

So with the $150K saved on Robbo and the $145K we have under the cap so far....without considering any allocation we have.....$295K to sign 5 to 6 players.

[Oldtimer]

is is draft picks or draft picks we are getting? It is probably conditional (don't know if MLS allows that, but they change the rules daily) based on # of minutes played, if NYRB make the playoffs, etc.


Yes, MLS allows conditional draft picks.



So with the $150K saved on Robbo and the $145K we have under the cap so far....without considering any allocation we have.....$295K to sign 5 to 6 players.

That's under the assumption that there is no cap space increase next year, which can't be true.

It's also absurd to not include allocation. According to GOL TV, Mo has $600k in allocation to play with. That's more than enough to sign some good players.

[Redcoe15]

They release Serioux.

They release Robbo.

And they keep Garcia around.

WTF MO? WTF???:hulk:

[Roogsy]

I feel like the original TFC lineup is pretty much eroded away now, except for Jimmy B. When I think of this team, Robinson, Dichio, Brennan are what comes to mind. Hopefully this is all giving rise to the new, improved TFC, DeRo, DeGuzman and some striker that is yet to be proven.

Yeah, pretty much the whole team is gone which is not a bad thing. The REAL problem is that the team has been turned over with no real purpose or goal in mind. It is all so thrown together, at this point it is glaringly obvious to everyone except team ownership that Mo is not a GM and we are stuck with him until they do.

[Yohan]

we all knew this day was coming, but it still doesn't make it any less pleasurable seeing

Robbo was worth 300k in season 1. now, 150k. so it made sense to try to dump his salary when we have 3 players that can play his position adequately and then some

going to miss robbo's professionalism around

[JonO]

Carl is a class guy both on and off the field. There's wasn't anybody on the team that was more respected amongst the players than he was.

It's a big loss for the team, IMO.

John
Thanks John... That's my feeling as well...

[canadian_bhoy]

Gotta say, Robbo getting moved to NJ is a serious "situation".

He's goin to Jersey biiiiitch.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2mo82sx.jpg

[London]

^^^^^Robbo "the situation's" main goal is to have his name known around jersey shore.

him and paully D are probably doing jersey sluts right now!!!

[canadian_bhoy]

^^^^^Robbo "the situation's" main goal is to have his name known around jersey shore.

him and paully D are probably doing jersey sluts right now!!!

Still going to miss Robbo.

I wonder if this vid is part of the NYRB player orientation package.

RaRcVT604_0

[Daveisonfire]

Sad news :(

[Nazzer]

I don't get it. Why release a player due to his contract if you aren't gonna sign anyone to replace him.

[TFC Cityboy]

Sad to see a class act go, especially if we are still paying the lion's share of his salary.
Sean (9) weighed in with "what the?? Robbo pulled the team together. TFC will be shit now"

Good luck, Carl, you'll be missed.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

They release Serioux.

They release Robbo.

And they keep Garcia around.

WTF MO? WTF???:hulk:

Its pretty certain Garcia is on a guaranteed contract so we cant just release him


I don't get it. Why release a player due to his contract if you aren't gonna sign anyone to replace him.

because we havent signed anyone yet doesnt mean its never going to happen. (im not making excuses for mo for the record, that dude needs to go)

[Yohan]

Its pretty certain Garcia is on a guaranteed contract so we cant just release him

By the info from the article, looks like Robbo was also on guaranteed contract too. read something about even though Robbo is released, TFC takes cap hit or something

[lips]

They release Serioux.

They release Robbo.

And they keep Garcia around.

WTF MO? WTF???:hulk:
Yes WTF :picard:

[Super]

By the info from the article, looks like Robbo was also on guaranteed contract too. read something about even though Robbo is released, TFC takes cap hit or something

Yes, that appears to be the case. So if NYRB pays him 150k, I'm guessing we have to pay the other half of his salary? Just stupid.

[DichioTFC]

i'm disappointed to see Robbo go (cant wait to give him a standing ovation when he comes back to BMO). i understand the business side of this deal and as much as i'm not a fan of mo jo, its still a good decision.

all the best to Robbo... probably would be a good idea for people to go to his website / twitter and send him a farewell message directly.

[J .]

He played well for us, but with Cronin and JDG, he didnt have a spot. He had several years of solid service for us and hopefully and money freed up will get us some wingers.

[Carts]

I'd rather have Robbo try and switch to the backline than have Garcia out there...

Release Garcia and take the cap hit with his garunteed contract. Spend the entire pre-season having Preki work with Robbo as a central defender...

He's a pro, he's well respected, he has a good football brain - he'd be an excellent leader on the backline... If the experiment doesn't work - so be it. But we already know Garcia doesn't work so why not try it...

All a moot point now that he's gone...

Carts...

[Yohan]

I'd rather have Robbo try and switch to the backline than have Garcia out there...

Release Garcia and take the cap hit with his garunteed contract. Spend the entire pre-season having Preki work with Robbo as a central defender...

He's a pro, he's well respected, he has a good football brain - he'd be an excellent leader on the backline... If the experiment doesn't work - so be it. But we already know Garcia doesn't work so why not try it...

All a moot point now that he's gone...

Carts...
this makes more sense. garcia apparently has 200k guaranteed contract. if robbo signs with shite bulls, tfc takes 200k in cap still

robbo > garcia by a mile

oh well

[Mark in Ottawa]

Thanks Carl for being the class act you always have been in Toronto.
Good luck in the future wherever you end up playing cause we all know...
you aren't done yet!

Best to you and your family.

[ensco]

this makes more sense. garcia apparently has 200k guaranteed contract. if robbo signs with shite bulls, tfc takes 200k in cap still

robbo > garcia by a mile

oh well

Robbo resisted the move to CB pretty strongly last year (although I can't find anything on the record about that, so maybe it was all just talk here).

Anyway, if it's true, it wouldn't surprise me if Preki would make an example of someone who would refuse to play out of position.

[Shakes McQueen]

People need to stop asking why we hung onto Garcia. He's on a guaranteed contract - we can't just cut him loose when we feel like it, and it's not like anyone is going to trade for him and his shitty contract.

- Scott

[ensco]

People need to stop asking why we hung onto Garcia. He's on a guaranteed contract - we can't just cut him loose when we feel like it, and it's not like anyone is going to trade for him and his shitty contract.

- Scott

Hang on, that's the same situation Robbo is in. Of course it's fair to ask, if we're going to have to pay someone $200K not to play for us, who should it be?

[JonO]

People still want Robbo, but don't want to be on the hook for his whole salary (as evidenced by the trade). I don't think you will find anyone to take on Garcia, even for half his salary.

Just poor management to be stuck in this position and poor handling of the situation altogether considering what he (Robbo) gave for the team and the fans...

[Shakes McQueen]

Hang on, that's the same situation Robbo is in. Of course it's fair to ask, if we're going to have to pay someone $200K not to play for us, who should it be?

If this trade for Robbo is true though, we are at least recouping SOME cap space.

Paying Garcia $200k not to player for us, doesn't help us - it frees up no cap space, and still leaves our roster short on players.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

People still want Robbo, but don't want to be on the hook for his whole salary (as evidenced by the trade). I don't think you will find anyone to take on Garcia, even for half his salary.

Just poor management to be stuck in this position and poor handling of the situation altogether considering what he (Robbo) gave for the team and the fans...

Exactly.

Robbo is a tradeable asset, and something the team can GET SOMETHING for, even if it's just a bit of cap relief. Garcia is an asset with no value to anyone.

- Scott

[jimiv]

Exactly.

Robbo is a tradeable asset, and something the team can GET SOMETHING for, even if it's just a bit of cap relief. Garcia is an asset with no value to anyone.

- Scott

...and Garcia is a friend of Mo and Preki...

[ensco]

^I don't understand what you guys are saying.

Financially, and in cap terms, there is zero difference between paying $200K of Robbo's contract in NY, or paying Garcia $200K to stay home.

There is NO difference in the cap relief we would get if we told Garcia to go home, instead of moving Robbo. The only difference would be the draft picks you pick up from NY, which is really just a bag of balls unless a pick is in the first round, which it won't be.

Let's also face facts - the chance that NY want Robbo isn't great, which means we're probably won't get any draft picks or $100K in cap relief, and we're probably paying Robbo $300K to sit at home.

So the question, why not just pay Garcia $200K to stay home, and keep Robbo, is a pretty interesting one. There is more to this than we know.

[brad]

Don't worry folks!

Having garbage players on large guaranteed contracts and using our own cap space to pay large parts of other teams salaries is all part of the 5 year plan. It will pay huge dividends, just trust Mo!

[olegunnar]

So the question, why not just pay Garcia $200K to stay home, and keep Robbo, is a pretty interesting one. There is more to this than we know.

The KC Wizards connection perhaps?

MoJo was there 1996-2001
Garicia was there 2000-2007
Preki was there 2002-2005

[Nuvinho]

Robbo may of wanted out, if he wasn't going to start or play much, he may of figured that its best to move on.

[v00d00daddy]

It's much simpler to explain this.

If you keep Robbo, waive Garcia (still having his salary count against the cap), and then make Robbo a CB you're essentially paying 500k against the cap to have Robbo playing CB-a position he doesn't want to play.

All because Robbo is a good guy and a leader of some kind?

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense.

The only way you can get rid of Garcia IS if Robbo moves and you get some cap relief.

Robbo getting traded and NYRB picking up half the tab is one of the only things that can facilitate getting rid of Garcia and still being able to build.

I thought this thread was about Robbo? Again...we're talking about Garcia.

[Shakes McQueen]

There is NO difference in the cap relief we would get if we told Garcia to go home, instead of moving Robbo.

Yes there is. If we are paying $200k of a $300k cap hit for Robbo to play in New York, then we are saving $100k under the cap.

If we are paying $200k of a $200k cap hit for Garcia to sit at home, we are saving nothing.

- Scott

[Brooker]

If we are paying $200k of a $200k cap hit for Garcia to sit at home

That's where he's at his best. Garcia has been playing out of position all this time.

[ag futbol]

Let's calm down on the chronically playing players out of position. It was a rabid disease (partially caused by an unbalanced roster) which does not help us in the long run.

If we are disciplined about playing guys IN THEIR NATURAL POSITION, the end result will be better team football. This is not a fantasy league.

Small adjustments like Moving Chad Barrett to the Wing or moving Jimmy B up and down the left side are ok. But enough Sam Cronin on the Wing, Marvell Wynn as a striker, Dero in 12 different spots ... let's keep it mostly clean.

If the square peg doesn't fit in the round hole, trade for a round peg FFS.

[ensco]

Yes there is. If we are paying $200k of a $300k cap hit for Robbo to play in New York, then we are saving $100k under the cap.

If we are paying $200k of a $200k cap hit for Garcia to sit at home, we are saving nothing.

- Scott

Ouch! I think I'm wrong and you is right.

My point only stands if NY don't complete the trade. Then the impact of cutting either player would be the same. So the right thing is to wait and see what happens.

[Shakes McQueen]

Ouch! I think I'm wrong and you is right.

My point only stands if NY don't complete the trade. Then the impact of cutting either player would be the same. So the right thing is to wait and see what happens.

Yes, this is all still dependent on New York actually taking him, which apparently hasn't happened yet.

Of course, what would be really nice is if the team would tell us what the fuck is going on.

- Scott

[Oldtimer]

If the square peg doesn't fit in the round hole, trade for a round peg FFS.

Good point.

[TFCRegina]

I'm disappointed Robbo had to go.

But there is a latin saying that sums it up best.

Res Dura...Harsh Necessity.

The guy had to go, he wasn't going to fit in the system and was eating up necessary resources. Sorry to see Robbo go, but it was needed.

[Redpunkfiddle]

Let's calm down on the chronically playing players out of position. It was a rabid disease (partially caused by an unbalanced roster) which does not help us in the long run.

If we are disciplined about playing guys IN THEIR NATURAL POSITION, the end result will be better team football. This is not a fantasy league.

Small adjustments like Moving Chad Barrett to the Wing or moving Jimmy B up and down the left side are ok. But enough Sam Cronin on the Wing, Marvell Wynn as a striker, Dero in 12 different spots ... let's keep it mostly clean.

If the square peg doesn't fit in the round hole, trade for a round peg FFS.

Thank you, sir. Last year we drafted the surest bet to step into the starting team with our top pick (Cronin) even though we had other needs. I don't fault playing him on the outside last year but with a year of planning we need to get real with playing guys in their best slots.

[105BallHats]

100% Class.

Thank-you and good luck Carl.


In that position he didn't have a starting spot and 150 is less than 300K, simple, smart move.

Wait a week and now that we have 150 of room we might be able sign someone new, that's what we all want right?

[Oblio2]

Trading Robbo sucks.
The Robbo haters will see how much we miss him AFTER he's gone and we will miss him.

Classy guy. Will be missed.

[Hitcho]

Exactly.

Robbo is a tradeable asset, and something the team can GET SOMETHING for, even if it's just a bit of cap relief. Garcia is an asset with no value to anyone.

- Scott

Isn't that the definition of a liability? :D

[TFCRegina]

Isn't that the definition of a liability? :D

No, a liability costs you money. In which case our definition of Garcia was wrong anyway.

The club pays him...to score goals on their own club...denying them playoffs, costing them even more money.

[bones]

Wow, a whole lot of Tweets and "sources say" and nothing official. I'll wait for the official release...and if so, then I'll be sad.

Bones...

[Shaughno]

Riddle me this... but if we 'trade' Robbo to RBNY, would his salary not get transferred to RBNY? Then we would pay an allocation of $150k-200k to RBNY to cover part/most of his salary.

Is that not how it would work? I fail to see how Carl will still be a cap hit to us, while playing for another team. It's not like it's a loan of any sort.

Man... people jump to such conclusions around here.

From what I see, we should be getting $300k in cap space, but losing $150-200k in allocations.

[koryo]

Riddle me this... but if we 'trade' Robbo to RBNY, would his salary not get transferred to RBNY? Then we would pay an allocation of $150k-200k to RBNY to cover part/most of his salary.

Is that not how it would work? I fail to see how Carl will still be a cap hit to us, while playing for another team. It's not like it's a loan of any sort.

Man... people jump to such conclusions around here.

From what I see, we should be getting $300k in cap space, but losing $150-200k in allocations.

You'd think so, but it may be TFC who are offering up to pay a portion of his salary in order to offload him. It's not like that hasn't happened before.

New York Post this morning, take it for what it's worth:
Red Bulls trade for Carl Robinson (http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/soccerblog/red_bulls_trade_for_carl_robinson_GCIokSFs6lkjKi05 nu6o8M)

[Shaughno]

I dunno, nothing I've read suggests a cap hit on our end...

[koryo]

I dunno, nothing I've read suggests a cap hit on our end...

From the article:
"Yes, the guy pricy at $300,000 last season, but it's unclear how much of his salary Red Bull will on the hook for."

That statement implies that we're paying a portion of his salary. But you're right, we can't be sure until hard facts are revealed.

[menefreghista]

....

[Shaughno]

The way its worded is irrelevant.

The bottom line is that we are taking what amounts to $450k of our cap space and only using $150k of it, while one of our opponents gets to have one of our players.

The allocation we are giving NYRB could have been used on players, as well as the $300k owed Robinson.

Actually, it's more relevant than any of the other details. Why? Well, think about it.

One way, we lose Robbo (300k cap hit) and allocations (150-200k) and gain 300k in cap space.

The other way, we lose Robbo and a part of his salary, only freeing up 100-150k in cap space.

IMO, that's the most important and crucial piece of information of the whole deal.

[TFCRegina]

Actually, it's more relevant than any of the other details. Why? Well, think about it.

One way, we lose Robbo (300k cap hit) and allocations (150-200k) and gain 300k in cap space.

The other way, we lose Robbo and a part of his salary, only freeing up 100-150k in cap space.

IMO, that's the most important and crucial piece of information of the whole deal.

And we get draft picks.

[Shaughno]

Right, but as I said, not really that important in terms of important pieces of information. Whether it's a 1st round, 2nd round, bunch of 2nd rounders, etc. Doesn't match up to how important the difference in cap hit can be.

You can go from signing one-two players, to being able to sign a handful of players.

[Steve]

Actually, it's more relevant than any of the other details. Why? Well, think about it.

One way, we lose Robbo (300k cap hit) and allocations (150-200k) and gain 300k in cap space.

The other way, we lose Robbo and a part of his salary, only freeing up 100-150k in cap space.

IMO, that's the most important and crucial piece of information of the whole deal.

I think it is the second way. I understand what you're saying, and in most leagues you would be correct (we would trade the player and some allocation and he would be off our books). Unfortunately (for us in this case) MLS is operated as a single entity. That means that Robbo isn't technically on either of our books, he is actually on the MLS payroll itself. That means that it is much easier to say "ok, we will pay him 150k out of our budget, and you pay him 150k out of yours" since they are, in effect, the same source anyway.

As to this move, it was the right decision, but a poor situation to be in. If anyone thought more guaranteed contracts was a good thing, look at this situation. We are essentially stuck paying money from our cap for a player to play for another team, and we're stuck with Garcia on our team, taking up cap space, for nothing. Sure, you can think that is Mo's fault (and it is) but I still wish there was more flexibility.

So, now we're stuck in a bad year. We have contracts we don't want, and no way to get rid of them. Either we are going to suffer this year and build for next year, or Mo is going to make some more moves that have a 50/50 shot of either turning out really well, or ensuring we enter into leafs territory (always mortgaging the future for the current year with no real hope of doing anything this year). Either way seems pretty crappy to me. The only thing I can hope for is for Preki to get an our defense to overachieve, for White and Barrett to have standout years, and for our midfield to live up to their strength (while adding some serviceable wingers). If that doesn't happen (and I doubt it will) we are screwed.

Luckily Preki has a history of working with little on defense and making something out of it. To me, that means dropping players like Wynne and Brennan (or at least converting Brennan to a winger in his final year) and building a defense of players with no huge upside, but with the ability to work together as a team (and who are interchangeable).

[Oldtimer]

If you look at how Chivas was run, you'd have to say our problems are smaller by comparison.

If anyone can turn crap into something useful in this salary-capped league, it's Preki. That's what gives me some hope.

[Oblio2]

But our team hasn't gotten any better. We are (potentially) losing Robbo. We lost Guevera....We lack a striker, we lack width and we lack a CD, because Garcia is terrible. This is worse than the end of last season, where we didn't do anything and missed the playoffs.
if we are worse, how can this season be better? Preki?
I have faith in the coach but he's not Jesus and lets be honest, our team needs a miracle......

[Phil]

Well, if we boil it down a bit...

Robbo being gone frees cap space for another signing, its tough but that is what appears to be happening. We have JDG and Cronin able to play that position, so we have something there.

Guevera being gone, big loss but again we were very crowded in the midfield and he was only going to ba a half season guy with WC.

Lack of a striker, yup and lacking in width, yup. Hopefully this will be addressed.

For CB, we did get Ty Harden.

For me, there are a lot of unknowns and it does look shaky. I cant see this club being too competitive as the season goes on, they simply dont have the depth necessary to compete in both the MLS and Canadian Championship.

[Phil]

RT @LukeWileman: Preki confirms Robinson released and talks about reasons why. Interview will be online this afternoon on @torontofc TV.

[Nuvinho]

From what I heard, Robbo wanted out from last year. (maybe after JDG came).

[Section 117]

I heard it is more to do with Mo than with the signing JDG

[ensco]

I heard it is more to do with Mo than with the signing JDG

Related to Dichiogate perhaps?

[Roogsy]

I heard it is more to do with Mo than with the signing JDG


The moment I heard he was leaving, I knew part of it was Mo. I was certain of it. Mo is creating a really negative environment in the locker room. Even if he ships out his biggest critics in there, those that are left can't possibly trust him...or maybe even each other for that matter.

[Nuvinho]

I heard it is more to do with Mo than with the signing JDG

ah okay. didn't want to ask the person why he wanted out. My first thought was because of JDG coming in, then because of JC and CC leaving....but Mo is starting to rub all these players the wrong way. Reminds me of a Leaf Owner who did the same ;)

[Super]

So let me get this straight: Robbo was doing perfectly fine as our DM - and yet we decided to not only replace him with a DP (tying up 400k + our DP spot) and trading him away (having to still pay $200k of his salary bill this season).

So, sum total, $600k+ plus our DP slot used on the DM position. Wow. Just WOW!

[Beach_Red]

The moment I heard he was leaving, I knew part of it was Mo. I was certain of it. Mo is creating a really negative environment in the locker room. Even if he ships out his biggest critics in there, those that are left can't possibly trust him...or maybe even each other for that matter.


How come none of these guys ever complain about Mo when they're signing the contracts he offers them for twice as much money as anyone else in the world would pay them?

You guys make these players sound like such children in the schoolyard.

Last week someone commented on the interview with Dichio and how happy he is in his new job. What percentage of athletes make a smooth move from player to whatever their new job is?

[Parkdale]

I heard it is more to do with Mo than with the signing JDG


I heard it is more to do with Mo than with the signing JDG

I heard it is more to do with Mo than with the signing JDG

I heard it is more to do with Mo than with the signing JDG

I heard it is more to do with Mo than with the signing JDG

I heard it is more to do with Mo than with the signing JDG

I heard it is more to do with Mo than with the signing JDG

I heard it is more to do with Mo than with the signing JDG

I heard it is more to do with Mo than with the signing JDG




how many more times should I repeat it?

our biggest problem is right at the top

[Parkdale]

How come none of these guys ever complain about Mo when they're signing the contracts he offers them for twice as much money as anyone else in the world would pay them?

simple - mo lies. It's got to be that way.

how else would Dero sign a contract for less money than he wanted unless he had some kind of promise that more money would come? And did that money show up? Nope, because he wouldn't be talking about it if the other side of the deal was held up.

[koryo]

how many more times should I repeat it?

our biggest problem is right at the top

I'd prefer it if Johnston left town. Sharpish.

[Parkdale]

I'd prefer it if Johnston left town. Sharpish.

Imagine if we set up elections like Seattle did?
you can't vote out the owners, but you can vote out a failing manager.

[MG42]

don't know if it's posted yet but here's Preki's brief Robo talk...

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/

"he's already made up his mind he's not coming back here"

"his mind wasn't here"

-Preki

[koryo]

Imagine if we set up elections like Seattle did?
you can't vote out the owners, but you can vote out a failing manager.

No sense wishing that the sky could be green.

MLSE must understand that Johnston isn't doing a good enough job to match their ambitions. This isn't an attack on the man, it's an attack on his performance. He can only be judged by results which, to date, have been pathetic.

He simply isn't up to it. End of.

So, moving into year four we can only summarize the Five Year Plan (from his perspective) as follows (and yes, I'm being a broken record):

Years 1-3: be shit
Year 4: be less shit and hopefully save my job
Year 5: new Five Year Plan

[Pigfynn]

don't know if it's posted yet but here's Preki's brief Robo talk...

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/

"he's already made up his mind he's not coming back here"

"his mind wasn't here"

-Preki

He also said "we don't want him here" at one point I believe in reference to Carl not wanting to be here anymore

[Phil]

I saw this over at usector and it made me think of this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Gnomes_plan.png

[MG42]

^get that to the banner team :lol:

[koryo]

I saw this over at usector and it made me think of this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Gnomes_plan.png

Classic! They've hit the nail on the head :D

[Shaughno]

:rofl:

http://ready-up.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/gnomes.jpg

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

So let me get this straight: Robbo was doing perfectly fine as our DM - and yet we decided to not only replace him with a DP (tying up 400k + our DP spot) and trading him away (having to still pay $200k of his salary bill this season).

So, sum total, $600k+ plus our DP slot used on the DM position. Wow. Just WOW!

sound math, alex.
wow is right.

[koryo]

^^ I'm never going to be able to think of Johnston without thinking of the Underpants Gnomes now. Thank you!!

:rofl:

[deltox]

Preki quote " he already made up his mind that he was not coming back here"

[Section 117]

Beach Red - what are the players suppose to say???

They are not going to talk shit about their GM when they are still with the squad. Mo is a very smooth talker - I would compare him to a snake charmer with respect to the MLSE board. The players know the truth but are pretty much ham strung because if they open their mouths and then get cut. Their rights are owned by TFC for 5 years and then good luck trying to latch on with another club in the MLS.

We have had too many instances where Mo is the problem. I wish we could get rid of him and even if we did he has screwed up the stucture and salaries of this team that IMO it will take a year or two just to get backon track

Just my 2 cents

[Shaughno]

Amen 117, amen.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

yeah i really dont think anyone can dismiss who poorly Mo has done with this team. regardless of how TFC does itll be interesting to see if hes still around in the next few years and what it takes to dislodge him

[koryo]

itll be interesting to see if hes still around in the next few years and what it takes to dislodge him

If you want to remove a cancer, you don't use a butter knife.

[Section 117]

I think it a full scale riot would probably be the only thing that would take MLSE to can MO.

As long the profits keep rolling in IMO Mo will still be around

[Beach_Red]

simple - mo lies. It's got to be that way.

how else would Dero sign a contract for less money than he wanted unless he had some kind of promise that more money would come? And did that money show up? Nope, because he wouldn't be talking about it if the other side of the deal was held up.


Every producer I've ever worked for made promises he couldn't keep, it's why I have an agent and what they get paid for. I don't blame the producers, I don't even listen to them, my agent gets everything in the contract and I don't worry about what's not in it. That's why I know I won't be back for the second season of The Bridge if there is one even though the producer "promised." ;)

Some players talked to TFC and decided not to sign here - that's what they're supposed to do. Every player has an agent, every agent is familiar with the team and who runs it. So once you sign the contract, all I'm asking is that you be a professional about it.

[ensco]

Why isn't Robbo talking? This is actually pretty weird.

Mo must have gagged him the way he gagged Carver on the way out the door.

[canadian_bhoy]

Why isn't Robbo talking? This is actually pretty weird.

Mo must have gagged him the way he gagged Carver on the way out the door.

I'm pretty sure that as part of the release/trade, Robbo would have signed some sort of non disclosure agreement with MLSE. Besides, what does he have to gain by talking about this? I'm sure he's relieved to be moving on and focussing on football and family.

[Phil]

I'm pretty sure that as part of the release/trade, Robbo would have signed some sort of non disclosure agreement with MLSE. Besides, what does he have to gain by talking about this? I'm sure he's relieved to be moving on and focussing on football and family.

Remember that Carver had the same thing and they had to pull that sportsnet interview?

[Carts]

So let me get this straight: Robbo was doing perfectly fine as our DM - and yet we decided to not only replace him with a DP (tying up 400k + our DP spot) and trading him away (having to still pay $200k of his salary bill this season).

So, sum total, $600k+ plus our DP slot used on the DM position. Wow. Just WOW!

Yup...

Great signing that was...

2-more years left (if he sticks) and we can look for a proper DP for this league...

Carts...

[canadian_bhoy]

Remember that Carver had the same thing and they had to pull that sportsnet interview?

I knew Carver had signed an NDA, I didn't know about a Sportsnet interview. That would be a really interesting interview to get a hold of.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Oh cmon guys, its been 6 games of last season and youre already writing off De guzman?

[Phil]

I knew Carver had signed an NDA, I didn't know about a Sportsnet interview. That would be a really interesting interview to get a hold of.

It was up for an hour....then gone.

[canadian_bhoy]

It was up for an hour....then gone.

Any interesting comments?

[CretanBull]

Every producer I've ever worked for made promises he couldn't keep, it's why I have an agent and what they get paid for. I don't blame the producers, I don't even listen to them, my agent gets everything in the contract and I don't worry about what's not in it. That's why I know I won't be back for the second season of The Bridge if there is one even though the producer "promised." ;)

Some players talked to TFC and decided not to sign here - that's what they're supposed to do. Every player has an agent, every agent is familiar with the team and who runs it. So once you sign the contract, all I'm asking is that you be a professional about it.

What people are missing is that the lies didn't take place during the contract negociations - when DeRo signed his contract he knew what he was getting and got what he was promised in his contract.

The lies took place before contract negociations. Mo convinced DeRo that if he asked Houston for a trade to Toronto that we'd give him DP money. He was always going to come here at some point in his career, but he came much earlier than expected because of the promise of more money. It was the promise of DP money that put the deal in motion. It wasn't until DeRo requested a trade - effectively burning his bridge with Houston and their fans - and he sat down to work out his contract that he found out the reason why he left Houston - the promise of DP money - wasn't going to be delivered. He got screwed. He couldn't undo the deal the Houston and TFC had agreed upon and was forced to work out the best possible deal that could get, even though he wasn't going to get what he was promised. The raise that he ended up getting did little more than off-set the differences in taxes between Texas/America and Ontario/Canada and other financial losses (like selling a home in a depressed American market).

There's nothing an agent or DeRo or a lawyer or anyone else in charge of due diligence could have done to prevent what happened.

[Carts]

It was up for an hour....then gone.

Too bad none of us got it saved and uploaded it to youtube...

Carts...

[Phil]

Any interesting comments?

To be honest there was nothing earth shattering or anything we didnt already guess or find out later.

It just highlights the idea that players and coaches probably wont even try to say anything on their way out.

[Beach_Red]

What people are missing is that the lies didn't take place during the contract negociations - when DeRo signed his contract he knew what he was getting and got what he was promised in his contract.

The lies took place before contract negociations. Mo convinced DeRo that if he asked Houston for a trade to Toronto that we'd give him DP money. He was always going to come here at some point in his career, but he came much earlier than expected because of the promise of more money. It was the promise of DP money that put the deal in motion. It wasn't until DeRo requested a trade - effectively burning his bridge with Houston and their fans - and he sat down to work out his contract that he found out the reason why he left Houston - the promise of DP money - wasn't going to be delivered. He got screwed. He couldn't undo the deal the Houston and TFC had agreed upon and was forced to work out the best possible deal that could get, even though he wasn't going to get what he was promised. The raise that he ended up getting did little more than off-set the differences in taxes between Texas/America and Ontario/Canada and other financial losses (like selling a home in a depressed American market).

There's nothing an agent or DeRo or a lawyer or anyone else in charge of due diligence could have done to prevent what happened.



You sound like you were in the room. Do you believe that the GM of TFC didn't have to pass any DP contract past the Board of Directors? This is what I mean by producers making promises they can't keep. Any good agent would disregard anything that was said before contract negaotations and never allow a client to do anything that depended on something that was said before negotiations. That's an amateur, rookie mistake. That's what you fire an agent for.

Look every agent knew that TFC had never issued a DP contract and no other team was offering one up for DeRo, a career MLSer who wasn't going anywhere else. What agent would seriously think they could get a DP contract under those circumstances? And from MLSE? What negotiating position would an agent have?

Yes, I know MLS is a bush league, but come on, promises? I'd hate to see how these guys would do negotiating with an NFL GM.......

[Rudi]

Oh cmon guys, its been 6 games of last season and youre already writing off De guzman?
Five games, actually.

[Rudi]

Mo convinced DeRo that if he asked Houston for a trade to Toronto that we'd give him DP money.
Tampering?

I don't argue that Mo is a problem, but I find this hard to believe (again).

[Shakes McQueen]

JDG entered what was a apparently a thoroughly dysfunctional locker room, after having not played in months (not being in mid-season form), only played five games, and people are writing him off already?

Give me a break.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

You sound like you were in the room. Do you believe that the GM of TFC didn't have to pass any DP contract past the Board of Directors? This is what I mean by producers making promises they can't keep. Any good agent would disregard anything that was said before contract negaotations and never allow a client to do anything that depended on something that was said before negotiations. That's an amateur, rookie mistake. That's what you fire an agent for.

Look every agent knew that TFC had never issued a DP contract and no other team was offering one up for DeRo, a career MLSer who wasn't going anywhere else. What agent would seriously think they could get a DP contract under those circumstances? And from MLSE? What negotiating position would an agent have?

Yes, I know MLS is a bush league, but come on, promises? I'd hate to see how these guys would do negotiating with an NFL GM.......

This is a point I repeatedly tried to make in the other thread a month or two ago, about DeRo not liking his contract.

Promising DeRo anything while he was under contract to another team, is tampering. Plain and simple. Secondly, any agent that lets a player move based on promises, is the worst agent in the world. It didn't happen.

- Scott

[Super]

Oh cmon guys, its been 6 games of last season and youre already writing off De guzman?

I think De Guzman is a wonderful player, but I just think he fits better in a team with players of equal strength around him. A defensive midfielder is NOT going to change the result of a game. He helps clean up right behind the midfield, sure, but that didn't stop New York from kicking our ass 4-0 in the last training match. So defensively he really doesn't produce much of anything for us. Offensively? Nope - nothing.

So that begs the question: how massive of an improvement is De Guzman in the role of DM over Robinson? And how will this effect our performance as a team in terms of results? And is it worth our DP slot + 600k under the cap (400k to DeGuzman, and 200k to Robinson that we're stuck with if he signs with NYRB).

So far I feel that De Guzman has shown that he is not the fix for our team. Angel? Blanco? Donovan? McBride? Ljungberg? Any of these players would've done wonders for our club - absolutely without a shadow of a doubt. So to me this is just another piece of evidence that a DP slot should be used on an offensive player - period.

Now, having said the above, I know and accept the fact that De Guzman is here to stay. So that's reality. I want De Guzman to be made to feel welcome by all - and we should want him to be happy here as well. We have to make the best of the situation after all. But at the end of the day our troubles are the same as the first 3 seasons: poor defense and attack. We can't rely on DeRo to do all the work AGAIN.

[CretanBull]

Tampering?

I don't argue that Mo is a problem, but I find this hard to believe (again).

Rightly or wrongly, DeRo has been connected to TFC since the day Toronto was awarded a franchise. Its not like we targetted a random player and held back room negociations and underminded a team's relationship with one of it's players. That underminding process has been happening from day 1 in a very open a public way. DeRo has always said that he'd like to play for TFC "at some point" and TFC have always said that they'd love to have him. When DeRo went to Houston requesting a trade to Toronto they weren't surprised (and according to some reports in Houston, weren't disappointed either). Tampering is only an issue if the team is trying to protect that asset, in this case I think Houston accepted the inevitability that DeRo would end up in Toronto...because everyone had been saying it for 3 years.

[Across_The_Pond]

The Welsh flag at BMO wouldn't be raised this season then behind the goal! I'll have to bring my own Welsh RPB one instead then....

Thanks Robbo. Best of Luck.

Welsh Branch of the RPB's

[Chevy]

I find it hard to believe that DeRo was promised "DP Money".

That could mean $500k, $5 million or anything in between. If he was promised a speciifc dollar figure and didn't get it I'm sure his agent would have screamed bloody murder.

Say what you want about MLSE and Mo but I can't see them screwing over the new face of the franchise for a few hundred grand.

[Beach_Red]

Rightly or wrongly, DeRo has been connected to TFC since the day Toronto was awarded a franchise. Its not like we targetted a random player and held back room negociations and underminded a team's relationship with one of it's players. That underminding process has been happening from day 1 in a very open a public way. DeRo has always said that he'd like to play for TFC "at some point" and TFC have always said that they'd love to have him. When DeRo went to Houston requesting a trade to Toronto they weren't surprised (and according to some reports in Houston, weren't disappointed either). Tampering is only an issue if the team is trying to protect that asset, in this case I think Houston accepted the inevitability that DeRo would end up in Toronto...because everyone had been saying it for 3 years.

But does that seem at all like the way professionals should do business to you? "Because everyone had been saying it for 3 years?"

It's funny, no one here likes our GM (I just like to be contrary ;), I really have no feelings one way or the other - if it wasn't him it would be someone else on the exact same level) so it might make some players feel they can negotiate in public because they'll always be the good guy. They can complain about "broken promises" all they want and still be supported.

It realy does look like a dysfunctional team, but plenty of dysfunctional baseball teams have won the World Series (really, practically every one) and plenty of giant assholes have coached teams to Super Bowl victories, so you never know.

But no one in this is looking very professional, frankly.

[CretanBull]

You sound like you were in the room.

I've heard essentially the same thing from a wide variety sources - respected journalists, people connected to players, people connected to DeRo, people who work for TFC, people who have spoken to DeRo, people in the media who were told things 'off the record', someone who was in the room before, after and during the Sun TV interview that first (officially) broke the story of a contract issue etc. I'm 100% about one of two things - either things happened the way that I've said or there's an orchestrated campaign by unconnected people to convince people that things happened that way. Incidentally, I know that I'm not the only person here who has been told this.



Do you believe that the GM of TFC didn't have to pass any DP contract past the Board of Directors? This is what I mean by producers making promises they can't keep.


It was public knowledge that MLSE had authorized Mo to sign a DP. It's also clear that Mo has full controll over the TFC side of things - again its public knowledge that he's the only 'soccer guy' on the MLSE books. If the BOD would have to approve a deal, I'm sure any sort of reasonable DP contract ($1-$2 million?) would be rubber stamped if it was for the guy Mo wanted. All of this is beside the point though, because when it came time to negociate DP status was suddenly off the table.



Any good agent would disregard anything that was said before contract negaotations and never allow a client to do anything that depended on something that was said before negotiations. That's an amateur, rookie mistake. That's what you fire an agent for.


But things said before contract negociations were all they had to go on. If DeRo didn't make his move (request a trade) then they couldn't even get to the contract level talks - and thats what this is all about. If DeRo didn't think that coming to Toronto would get him more money then he would have stayed in Houston for a few more years. Mo had to convince DeRo to come when he did, and that convincing involved promising more money.

Keep in mind that DeRo (rightly or wrongly) felt that he was being under-paid in Houston. Are you saying that when DeRo had an opportunity to potentially double or triple his salary that his agent should have assumed that Mo couldn't deliever and stepped in and prevented the move? A contract at this point wouldn't be legal, they had to stay put or accept Mo at his word. No amount of due diligence would change that.



Look every agent knew that TFC had never issued a DP contract and no other team was offering one up for DeRo, a career MLSer who wasn't going anywhere else. What agent would seriously think they could get a DP contract under those circumstances? And from MLSE? What negotiating position would an agent have?


Its not unreasonable to think that an expansion Toronto based team would place a higher value on a player from Toronto who also happened to be one of the top 5 players in the league. And again, by all accounts, they were acting on what they were being told by TFC. They believed that they were worth that so when someone came around and agreed that they were worth that why wouldn't they pursue it?

[ensco]

^Many sports teams are dysfunctional, sure, but it's the pattern in the way that TFC are dysfunctional that is meaningful.

Watching Preki mumble about Robbo, man was that depressing, it was like a repeat of the Cummins interviews about Dichio last September.

[CretanBull]

I find it hard to believe that DeRo was promised "DP Money".

That could mean $500k, $5 million or anything in between. If he was promised a speciifc dollar figure and didn't get it I'm sure his agent would have screamed bloody murder.

Say what you want about MLSE and Mo but I can't see them screwing over the new face of the franchise for a few hundred grand.

I haven't heard anyone say a number that DeRo was promised, but a term as simple as "DP money" (if no amount was promised) would mean - at a bare minimum $100k more a year, and it's not like a team would use its DP slot to sign a player for something like $450k (using the DP slot for the sake of $50k). Realistically, if no money was mentioned (and I don't know if it was or wasn't) and only the term "DP money" was used, DeRo would have been looking at doubling his salary.

[CretanBull]

But does that seem at all like the way professionals should do business to you? "Because everyone had been saying it for 3 years?"

It's funny, no one here likes our GM (I just like to be contrary ;), I really have no feelings one way or the other - if it wasn't him it would be someone else on the exact same level) so it might make some players feel they can negotiate in public because they'll always be the good guy. They can complain about "broken promises" all they want and still be supported.

It realy does look like a dysfunctional team, but plenty of dysfunctional baseball teams have won the World Series (really, practically every one) and plenty of giant assholes have coached teams to Super Bowl victories, so you never know.

But no one in this is looking very professional, frankly.


To MLSE, I doubt they even see it as dysfunction. They invested very little money and made a ton. They attribute part of that success to Mo, so he's their man. There was a contract dispute? They don't care...in the end, they got the player that they wanted and are paying him less than they (probably) would have been willing to pay him. Another win for Mo.

[v00d00daddy]

So to sum up:

1-Robbo is traded to NYRB for not much and we're still on the hook for some of his salary. According to Preki, Robbo didn't want to be here anymore.

2-It's all Mo's fault

3-Garcia sucks

4-JDG is a waste of DP spot and not worth the money spent on him.


Wow.....some people love Robbo way too much. It's bordering on insanity.

Robbo is gone. He was a nice guy and a good leader but we have MUCH better players at his position.

I don't really like Mo (in fact I rather dislike him as a GM) but it what it is. He's brought in a coach who can hopefully make some sense out of this team.

On that note...watch the Preki interview. I would argue that Preki had no interest in finding a spot for Robbo on this team. If dumping Robbo is good enough for Preki, it's good enough for me.

For those of you who keep saying things like...."you'll see how much we miss Robbo once he's gone"....I say this:

"you're gonna laugh that he ever played that position for us at that salary once JDG gets into full swing".

It's a joke to even consider having Robbo at holding mid at 300k instead of JDG at holding mid at 415k.

There are lots of problems with TFC (lack of cohesive back line and a bonafide scorer). Losing Robbo is not an issue as far as on field performance goes. In fact...it will help.

Good luck in whatever else you do Robbo.

[Blizzard]

So to sum up:

1-Robbo is traded to NYRB for not much and we're still on the hook for some of his salary. According to Preki, Robbo didn't want to be here anymore.

2-It's all Mo's fault

3-Garcia sucks

4-JDG is a waste of DP spot and not worth the money spent on him.


Wow.....some people love Robbo way too much. It's bordering on insanity.

Robbo is gone. He was a nice guy and a good leader but we have MUCH better players at his position.

I don't really like Mo (in fact I rather dislike him as a GM) but it what it is. He's brought in a coach who can hopefully make some sense out of this team.

On that note...watch the Preki interview. I would argue that Preki had no interest in finding a spot for Robbo on this team. If dumping Robbo is good enough for Preki, it's good enough for me.

For those of you who keep saying things like...."you'll see how much we miss Robbo once he's gone"....I say this:

"you're gonna laugh that he ever played that position for us at that salary once JDG gets into full swing".

It's a joke to even consider having Robbo at holding mid at 300k instead of JDG at holding mid at 415k.

There are lots of problems with TFC (lack of cohesive back line and a bonafide scorer). Losing Robbo is not an issue as far as on field performance goes. In fact...it will help.

Good luck in whatever else you do Robbo.

Well said. That said, I still hope to see JDG in a more advanced role or at least having the freedom to move up field with Cronin sliding in behind him when necessary.

[v00d00daddy]

Well said. That said, I still hope to see JDG in a more advanced role or at least having the freedom to move up field with Cronin sliding in behind him when necessary.


That's what I'd like to see too but I remember seeing JDG in an interview where he stated that he's most comfortable in that holding mid role. At any rate, I think he and Cronin in the middle of the field should work out well.

[ag futbol]

Watching Preki at Chivas, he had both central mids destroy (Nagamura and one other which skips my mind) they'd quickly turn to counter attack and get forward. So basically both guys can play box-to-box.

Not a bad idea if Cronin and JDG are on the field together. Not exactly sold on Saric yet as the Am successor to Guevara. Maybe a little more pre-season burn will bring out the best.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Five games, actually.

HAHA i stand corrected :D

[Beach_Red]

To MLSE, I doubt they even see it as dysfunction. They invested very little money and made a ton. They attribute part of that success to Mo, so he's their man. There was a contract dispute? They don't care...in the end, they got the player that they wanted and are paying him less than they (probably) would have been willing to pay him. Another win for Mo.


Now you're onto something. This is why I dislike corporate ownership - the corporate mentality isn't really suited to sports teams because the buck never stops, it just keeps spinning. Everyone's just trying to please their boss and there are the stated goals - winning the championship! And then there are the goals that will actually get people contract extensions and raises.

So, whoever was GM of TFC would have done exactly the same thing with DeRo - got him at the lowest contract possible. That's the way the corporate mentality works, that's why keying on the individual is pointless.

On the other hand, if TFC was owned by an individual, say Robert Kraft, they'd playing in the Rogers Centre on a shitty carpet but they'd have a manager everyone loves - and they still wouldn't win anything...

[felipe]

Just to get back to DeRo...Houston had a better replacement for him, they were quite happy to see him go...Stuart Holden did a great job is his role - and had been groomed to take that position for several years.

'Tampering' seems far-fetched. If Houston had wanted to keep DeRo around, they would have...but they didn't, they had a younger, better, american, replacement.

[MUFC_Niagara]

I heard it is more to do with Mo than with the signing JDG

And as Parkdale highlighted....you are correct sir....and gues what lads, Robbo won't be the last one who wants out. Confirmed.

Mo. Out. Now.

[ensco]

Just to get back to DeRo...Houston had a better replacement for him, they were quite happy to see him go...Stuart Holden did a great job is his role - and had been groomed to take that position for several years.

'Tampering' seems far-fetched. If Houston had wanted to keep DeRo around, they would have...but they didn't, they had a younger, better, american, replacement.

Holden had one year left on his contract, and was already making noises about leaving. If they were banking on him, it wasn't much of a strategy, in terms of replacing a perennial allstar.

My own farfetched conspiracy theory? I don't know exactly how but I think DeRo coming here was part of the resolution of the McBride thing. MLS wants/wanted local stars in the right local market, for obvious reasons. The league quietly promised MLSE that, if they rolled over on McBride, the league would get DeRo for them in due course. Houston went along with this and in turn got something from the league in some other way. Plus I'd bet the Dynamo were getting weary of DeRo, he is a bit of a prima donna, let's face it.

[Brooker]

so much speculation and so many assumptions in this thread my head is spinning.

this was about Robbo wasn't it? lol. Good luck to him. I wish him well. He'll be missed off the field, but not much on the field.

[koryo]

So to sum up:

1-Robbo is traded to NYRB for not much and we're still on the hook for some of his salary. According to Preki, Robbo didn't want to be here anymore.

2-It's all Mo's fault

3-Garcia sucks

4-JDG is a waste of DP spot and not worth the money spent on him.


Wow.....some people love Robbo way too much. It's bordering on insanity.

Robbo is gone. He was a nice guy and a good leader but we have MUCH better players at his position.

I don't really like Mo (in fact I rather dislike him as a GM) but it what it is. He's brought in a coach who can hopefully make some sense out of this team.

On that note...watch the Preki interview. I would argue that Preki had no interest in finding a spot for Robbo on this team. If dumping Robbo is good enough for Preki, it's good enough for me.

For those of you who keep saying things like...."you'll see how much we miss Robbo once he's gone"....I say this:

"you're gonna laugh that he ever played that position for us at that salary once JDG gets into full swing".

It's a joke to even consider having Robbo at holding mid at 300k instead of JDG at holding mid at 415k.

There are lots of problems with TFC (lack of cohesive back line and a bonafide scorer). Losing Robbo is not an issue as far as on field performance goes. In fact...it will help.

Good luck in whatever else you do Robbo.

For me, the issue isn't so much that Robbo's leaving. Part of it is the way in which he was unceremoniously cast off. The rest is that we'll end up eating a significant portion of his salary in a wage structure that doesn't leave much breathing room. What's worse is we're still carrying plenty of dead weight.

1. We should never have signed Gerba and Garcia, who must be the most expensive make-weight in the league. Johnston's doing.

2. Dichio: treat like shit. Robbo: treat like shit. Johnston's doing.

3. If Robinson lost a step last year then Brennan lost three. He's not cheap either so what's he still doing here and can you tell me why he still wears the captain's armband? Johnston's doing.

4. JDG: could be a great signing, yes. But on his money, DM is not an option for him. He needs to step up, showing some fucking minerals and drive the attack on this team.

5. As for missing his character: are you seriously suggesting that a team that has conceded nine in its last two games against New York has character?

Yes, we have more skilled players than Robbo now. It's not that he's gone, it's another example of casting off a loyal servant to the club like rubbish. It's the latest in a number of serious blunders smeared with Johnston's fingerprints.

[Steve]

Holden had one year left on his contract, and was already making noises about leaving. If they were banking on him, it wasn't much of a strategy, in terms of replacing a perennial allstar.

My own farfetched conspiracy theory? I don't know exactly how but I think DeRo coming here was part of the resolution of the McBride thing. MLS wants/wanted local stars in the right local market, for obvious reasons. The league quietly promised MLSE that, if they rolled over on McBride, the league would get DeRo for them in due course. Houston went along with this and in turn got something from the league in some other way. Plus I'd bet the Dynamo were getting weary of DeRo, he is a bit of a prima donna, let's face it.

Haha, you can say that again. I seem to waiver back and forth between loving him, and being really annoyed with him. I mean, off the field, since coming here, has he said much that was positive? He's complained about the team, about the surface, and about his contract. I just don't get the feeling that he's playing for the badge. Sure, he probably enjoys playing for some family friends, but whenever he opens his mouth I get the impression of a good player plying his trade on a team that pays him (though not enough) more than a player that would die for his home town team.

Of course, on the field he was our top scorer, and almost single-handedly pulled off the miracle in Montreal, but then again, some games he would disappear. I just don't know, he certainly isn't what I thought we were getting when we traded for him, but maybe I just want everyone to have the heart of Dichio.

[Shaughno]

Watching Preki at Chivas, he had both central mids destroy (Nagamura and one other which skips my mind) they'd quickly turn to counter attack and get forward. So basically both guys can play box-to-box.

Not a bad idea if Cronin and JDG are on the field together. Not exactly sold on Saric yet as the Am successor to Guevara. Maybe a little more pre-season burn will bring out the best.


That's personally how I would do it. Have them playing side by side, after a full and proper preseason, they should have some chemistry. Let them just eat the center of every team and then they can swing forward and back as needed.

[Section 117]

One last thing about Robbo for me. For all of his short commings on the pitch he was the rue leader in the dressing room next to Danny. You can ask any younger player he took time explaining to them what a true proffesional is and showed them the nuances of being a quality DM. This is where he will be missed the most IMO,

On the topic of JDG it is not his fault that Mo gave him the money that he did. JDG is a DM and in a salaried capped league I think that TFC shouldn't have spent the money on him. I guess it it what it is. Hopefully JDG will step up and light it up if not it is going to be a long long season

[Beach_Red]

For me, the issue isn't so much that Robbo's leaving. Part of it is the way in which he was unceremoniously cast off.



Okay, I'll admit, I've only been following soccer since TFC came into existence, but even in that short time there's been way too much emphasis on ceremony for me. This guy didn't retire, he went to work for another company.

[koryo]

Okay, I'll admit, I've only been following soccer since TFC came into existence, but even in that short time there's been way too much emphasis on ceremony for me. This guy didn't retire, he went to work for another company.

Okay, a simple "thank you" would have sufficed. How does asking for a bit more than treating a good player like shit when he leaves amount to ceremony?

[Shaughno]

One last thing about Robbo for me. For all of his short commings on the pitch he was the rue leader in the dressing room next to Danny. You can ask any younger player he took time explaining to them what a true proffesional is and showed them the nuances of being a quality DM. This is where he will be missed the most IMO,

On the topic of JDG it is not his fault that Mo gave him the money that he did. JDG is a DM and in a salaried capped league I think that TFC shouldn't have spent the money on him. I guess it it what it is. Hopefully JDG will step up and light it up if not it is going to be a long long season

Agreed. From all accounts Carl and Danny were the leaders on and off the pitch, now both are gone. Time for a new era I guess?...

Also agreed. I would like to see JDG in a more advanced role, taking on more of the playmaking role that Guevara used to help fill. Problem is with Carl gone now, I'm not sure he'll be used as far forward as many of us are hoping.

[canadian_bhoy]

Okay, I'll admit, I've only been following soccer since TFC came into existence, but even in that short time there's been way too much emphasis on ceremony for me. This guy didn't retire, he went to work for another company.

I'm not sure it's so much a desire for a proper send off thank you, it's just that it seems (seems = for sure) that Robbo was dicked around. For a player that did a lot for this club to be told he didn't have a place in the team anymore and to be thrown out the door like a dog is pretty sad.

It would have been nice if he was simply traded and then hear the usual "we're sorry to see him go, he was a great asset, but the fit wasn't there anymore, we wish him the best".

[Steve]

Agreed. From all accounts Carl and Danny were the leaders on and off the pitch, now both are gone. Time for a new era I guess?...

Also agreed. I would like to see JDG in a more advanced role, taking on more of the playmaking role that Guevara used to help fill. Problem is with Carl gone now, I'm not sure he'll be used as far forward as many of us are hoping.

I don't think we can really play JDG in an attacking role and get our monies worth. The best we can hope for is a box-to-box type of player. I mean, aside from a few games with Canada, JDG has his high level experience as a holding mid. He has scored very few goals in that time. There is no way he can take over from Guevara and even live up to what Guevara was doing, let alone be worth the DP money. To use him effectively, we will need him to stop attacks, and start our own (though not necessarily have the final ball). Other than that, we are paying someone a million dollars to play our of position. I don't know whether he was a good use of the DP spot, but if we're paying him that, we're paying him to be the best at what he does, not to be pretty good at something else.

[fetajr]

i'm liking Preki already. I was never a Robbo fan and I'm glad he's moving on.

[CretanBull]

Agreed. From all accounts Carl and Danny were the leaders on and off the pitch, now both are gone. Time for a new era I guess?...

Also agreed. I would like to see JDG in a more advanced role, taking on more of the playmaking role that Guevara used to help fill. Problem is with Carl gone now, I'm not sure he'll be used as far forward as many of us are hoping.

Which would be an absolute disaster.

I like Cronin and have faith in him, but we're putting a lot of pressure on a young kid playing a holding role in front of shit defense. There's a good chance that any mistake he makes or any missed play in the middle of the pitch is going to lead to a quality scoring chance.

We've lost Guevara, Serioux and Robo and replaced them with Harding, Peterson and some question mark trialists. At the very least, we've lost a ton of experience and leadership. It seems to me that we're gambling our season on young, inexperienced guys like Cronin, Nana and White having career years...and if they don't, there doesn't seem to be a plan B.