DeRo calling labour dispute "a disgrace" doesn't think deal will be done

[mastermixer]

as per soccercentral twitter
http://twitter.com/sportsnetsoccer/status/9984762636

[TFCRegina]

It is a disgrace.

[Batman]

He's never been one to hold back his thoughts.

I have to agree with him on this one.
It doesn't seem like the league is terribly interested in working out a deal. I'm under the impression they don't think the players will hold back their services and strike. I'm not too sure about that.

[JonO]

Does anyone know what the actual sticking point is? There must be one thing that is crucial to the players that they are unwilling to compromise. I have heard rumours, but nothing concrete...

[Keegan]

Does anyone know what the actual sticking point is? There must be one thing that is crucial to the players that they are unwilling to compromise. I have heard rumours, but nothing concrete...

I think it is the player rights thing. Theres no such thing as a real free agent in this league, for instance a team must trade for Serioux's rights in order to sign him. That is complete bs

Im with the players most likely whatever it is, this league and its owners are a sham

[JonO]

To be honest, I can understand some of the messed up rules of the league (well I can't understand the rules, but I can appreciate the need for them). That being said, I cannot understand how a team can hold on to a player's rights once that player has been released...

[sully]

without thorough or insight into what's going on, on my part...my sense is that the players are being let down here..and that it's really down to the league to make the next move..

[Hitcho]

can the league not allow inter-MLS free agency? ie, the league won't lose players to abroad for nothing after having paid their wages through the contract period, but the players can sign on with another mls team once their existing contract expires? the league pays the wages regardless and the cap still applies, so the league doesn't stand to lose out. would that not be the start of a compromise?

i get that initially some players will want to go to NY or LA etc, but they can't ALL go there and no one team could afford more than a few good players on its books at one time. so in reality the team that has the most cap space at the right time is likely to get the "MLS free agents" that are going, especially with the parity rules otherwise stopping one side from running away with it. it could also work well for TFC as the Canadian players could run down their contracts and come to TFC to play at "home"! :D

[Damien]

or maybe allow more open free agency but also allow more signings from your academy system... then you're forced to develop players.

[Keystone FC]

He's never been one to hold back his thoughts.

I have to agree with him on this one.
It doesn't seem like the league is terribly interested in working out a deal. I'm under the impression they don't think the players will hold back their services and strike. I'm not too sure about that.

That pretty much is the route they have to take. It's either that of agree to what the league is offering.
I mean what other options do they have?

[denime]

Here is the article :

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=20657

[FluSH]

as per soccercentral twitter
http://twitter.com/sportsnetsoccer/status/9984762636


I think it's time we step up... If the League won't listen to their players to get this done... they better listen to their customers... I've had enough.

[Oldtimer]

I think that it is garbage MLS stating that limited free agency would hurt the single entity status of MLS.

If you look at MLS as a corporation (which it is, legally), well many companies give their employees a choice whether they want to relocate to a remote outpost. Often, though, they have to sweeten the pot for them (promotions, more $$$) to make them take the job.

[rocker]

MLS allows players to relocate to a remote outpost -- it just involves trades.

but there's no way to have free agency with single entity. Impossible.

you can have a system that allows more freedom, but not free agency in its purest sense (player chooses where he wants to go and teams can outbid each other in a transparent way).

Why? Because MLS can't bid against itself for players. Players in other leagues can pit separate entities (different clubs) against each other to push up salaries. But teams in MLS don't have the power to sign anyone, so they cannot bid against each other. In the end, it's MLS that offers the contract and not the team. And on the flipside, if MLS did say, "OK TFC, you tell us how much you want to offer the player.. if it's more than Chicago bids, you get him", then players would have no idea if the league is being truthful. They could say "OK Serioux, DC offered you 30K and LA offered you 50K. Do you want to go to LA?" Serioux can't get them to up their offers in a single entity environment.

Thus no free agency can exist in a traditional sense.

Mark Abbott said the league had proposed some other system for players out of contract. It's up to the players to negotiate this, cuz there's no way in hell MLS is gonna ditch single entity just because the players want free agency.

MLS has a lot of weird rules, but they exist to try to ensure that Garber and people in the head office don't have total power to stock up certain teams. If MLS didn't have discovery rules, drafts, etc., then single entity would mean it could allocate players as Garber sees fit to any team it likes. Since the teams themselves are not individual entities in the classic sense, the rules exist to create a sort of system to approximate that while reserving ultimate power in the league. That gives the league much greater control against the players. If teams were single entity the players would suddenly have so much more power.

Nonetheless, the players are free to go to any other league in the world.

[boban]

Dero also likes to shoot his mouth off.
I'll wait til someone more reputable lets his thoughts known on the situation.

[Steve]

Yeah, from everything I've heard, the league has offered a bunch, but they feel they cannot budge on the free agency. As far as I understand, that would be for two reasons:

1) Single Entity. It is necessary (right now) and any rule changes that weaken that (in the eyes of a competition court) could potentially bring the whole house of cards down. If they give the players free agency, it's like admitting the league isn't a single entity, and is in fact multiple competing entities. Sure, it might not be the final nail in the coffin, but the league can't take the chance that a court could ruin them.

2) Cost control. You might think that limited free agency is pretty safe (letting players move teams once their contract is up) but it opens the doors to problems. The first being, which team gets to sign the player? If you say they all get to bid, once again, you're undermining the system of cost controls in place (one bidder, the MLS itself, keeps salaries lower than they would otherwise). Plus, if you open up that option, even if players are signed using the current system (discovery, etc) they would sign a short contract and get free agency within a short period of time.

That's not saying there isn't a compromise. For example, once a player's contract is up, you could have a system that forces the current team to either resign the player within X amount of time, or the player goes down the allocation list of teams (or set up a new list) if the first team doesn't want to try to sign him, it goes on, etc. Of course, the problem is, who determines how much the player gets? If a team says "yes" then can't come to terms with the player, do they now own the rights indefinitely, or do they have a specific time period? I'm afraid even that system, again, would be prone to abuse.

Perhaps the only system worth considering then is free agency only after a certain amount of time in the league. For example, if you've been in the league for 5 years and your contract expires (and your team doesn't want to resign you) you can offer your services as a free agent. This will limit the number of players that can take advantage of that system, limiting the cost, but may still weaken single entity.

Anyway, it's a damned tough question, and if the owners truly feel that single entity is keeping them afloat (which may be true) and that a court may take that away if they give up free agency, they can't bend on that issue. As I said, they sound like they've been willing to make concessions in other places, and would probably be willing to make even more (that would cost them money). The players need to find a new issue that is possible for the league to move on and ask for it, because if they are sticking to their guns on this one, they're cutting off their nose to spite their face.

[ensco]

the players are free to go to any other league in the world.

This is the key question and will determine what happens.

I believe MLS palyers are free, as a legal matter, to move to new clubs if they are locked out, but not if they strike. Of course other clubs/leagues may choose not to offer deals to MLS players, simply because they don't want to hurt MLS.

The flip side is, by not locking the players out, the league has handed a real grenade to the players - they can strike anytime they want, with devastating effect. The two obvious points at which this would be most painful for the league is (i) 2-3 weeks after the season starts, or (ii) at the time of the restart post WC2010 (the players would love it if somehow they could be locked out during the rest-of-the-world's summer transfer window)

It's a true Mexican standoff.

My guess is the league locks them out before the season starts, and takes it chances on losing players. The business impact of a walkout after the season starts would be terrible.

[mastermixer]

^^ Yeah, DeRo was bitter last year before the CBA expired. I can't imagine how he feels now. I sometimes get a feeling he thinks he's too good for this league.

[Blazer]

If a deal is not reached and scab players are awaiting, PM me for my seasons. Sec. 111, row 6.

[rocker]

That's not saying there isn't a compromise. For example, once a player's contract is up, you could have a system that forces the current team to either resign the player within X amount of time, or the player goes down the allocation list of teams (or set up a new list) if the first team doesn't want to try to sign him, it goes on, etc. Of course, the problem is, who determines how much the player gets? If a team says "yes" then can't come to terms with the player, do they now own the rights indefinitely, or do they have a specific time period? I'm afraid even that system, again, would be prone to abuse..

Yeah I was thinking the same thing this morning.

They could come up with a system whereby a player coming off a contract with MLS would not have his rights owned forever by the old team. So the old team would have maybe a month to sign the player to a new deal at whatever terms. Once that month is over, the old team can no longer sign the player (so he can't "use" the team as leverage against another team). But then the player would become available to be a discovery claim (already a league rule) by any other team in the league, with no compensation to the old team (the old team had the right to sign him or not).

Of course this is not "free agency" in an absolute sense. But it would allow guys like Hartman and Van Den Burgh to get out of limbo and transfer some power to the player but not absolute power. It wouldn't mean any bidding wars either (cuz the discovery claim would give one new team that power to sign him). Players could send out feelers to other teams and get an idea of who might want them.

But ya know, some players have free agency of a sort anyways. McBride, Huckerby, and Gerba all went to the teams they wanted to go to even though they were originally claimed by other teams. Players can be traded to teams they want to go to as well. That's freedom of a sort (not "free" for the team that wants the player, though.. but it's not like McBride had to pay TFC to go to Chicago.

[ensco]

If a deal is not reached and scab players are awaiting, PM me for my seasons. Sec. 111, row 6.

I'll bet you $10 you won't see scabs. You can't play scabs when you are a minor league. The message to your fans is too gruesome.

[Beach_Red]

Why? Because MLS can't bid against itself for players. Players in other leagues can pit separate entities (different clubs) against each other to push up salaries. But teams in MLS don't have the power to sign anyone, so they cannot bid against each other.


And we've cetrainly seen TFC used as a negotiating ploy by players many times. This is the man reason the league is a single-entity, the main reason they want a firm salary cap - no group of owners in the world can trust one another, and for good reason.

Free agency wouldn't be such an issue if the salary cap was raised enough.

[Blazer]

I'll bet you $10 you won't see scabs. You can't play scabs when you are a minor league. The message to your fans is too gruesome.

So you’re guess is a lockout?

[Parkdale]

It's a true Mexican standoff.


I was in a Canadian standoff this morning.

I'm holding one door waiting for the guy to come out, while he's holding the inner door waiting for me to come in. We're both holding the doors and apologizing to each other and saying 'After you'. 'No, after you!'

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Free agency wouldn't be such an issue if the salary cap was raised enough.

its a non issue with a salary cap, no team is willing to pay dave ven den bergh 300k for the season, i highly doubt there will be a bidding war for his services in which people will use the majority of their salaries to pay him. I definitely wanna hear the leagues excuse for this logic, it couldbe im missing something...

[DavydMT]

Dero also likes to shoot his mouth off.
I'll wait til someone more reputable lets his thoughts known on the situation.

We have grass now, maybe he should talk more.

[Roogsy]

LOL!

I'd dare anyone to try, just try to hold back DeRo from giving his thoughts.

The man carries his heart and emotions on his sleeve. I love it.

[Boris]

LOL!

I'd dare anyone to try, just try to hold back DeRo from giving his thoughts.

The man carries his heart and emotions on his sleeve. I love it.

yup....

[Roogsy]

Dero also likes to shoot his mouth off.
I'll wait til someone more reputable lets his thoughts known on the situation.

How is DeRo not reputable?

Is having opinions and giving them somehow making him less reputable? I'd say quite the opposite. He is upfront and honest. Maybe you don't like those qualities. Some of us do. Like it was mentioned before...we got grass because of guys like DeRo.

And what makes him even more "reputable" in this situation is that he is a long-time player in this league, with more awards than most, and has proven himself. If ANYONE has a right to speak on this, if not him, who?

[Belfast_Boy]

DeRo is da man! who would be more reputable?

we picked him as player of the year and I'm sure it was partly because he speaks his mind.

[drewski]

I agree DeRo is reputable, but he's also obviously quite biased

[S_D]

I find it funny that the league cries poor yet when the forbes report came out stating how bad off they were, the owners all stated it wasn't true because they had other revenue streams that weren't counted.

[jloome]

Disreputable and dishonest aren't always synonymous.

A guy can be honest and outspoken but just wrong a lot. He's still honest, but would you stake your reputation on what he's saying? I think that's what Boban's referring to.

[Boondaddy]

sportsnetsoccer (http://twitter.com/sportsnetsoccer)

Nick Garcia says both sides have agreed to a mediator in last ditch attempt to get a deal done between MLS and the players

what would we do without Nick Garcia....

[Redcoe15]

sportsnetsoccer (http://twitter.com/sportsnetsoccer)

Nick Garcia says both sides have agreed to a mediator in last ditch attempt to get a deal done between MLS and the players

what would we do without Nick Garcia....
Win more games? :D

[Zeke_Jones]

SO lets say there is a lockout and the first 5 games are cancelled, does anybody here think MLSE will give us season ticket holders the money back for those games?

And who thinks they will still raise the prices after next season if we fail to reach the playoffs again??

[werewolf]

http://www.englishfootballpost.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/drogba_soar_loser_swearing.jpg

[jaahuuu]

SO lets say there is a lockout and the first 5 games are cancelled, does anybody here think MLSE will give us season ticket holders the money back for those games?
It would probably be a credit towards next year's season tickets.


And who thinks they will still raise the prices after next season if we fail to reach the playoffs again??
Even if they cancel the whole season, tickets will be more expensive next year.

[Roogsy]

http://www.englishfootballpost.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/drogba_soar_loser_swearing.jpg


:lol:

[Roogsy]

Disreputable and dishonest aren't always synonymous.

A guy can be honest and outspoken but just wrong a lot. He's still honest, but would you stake your reputation on what he's saying? I think that's what Boban's referring to.

Who stakes their reputation on what anyone else says? I wouldn't stake my reputation on things you say Jeremy but I wouldn't questions whether you are reputable or not.

Yes, DeRo is outspoken. That's all that has been proven. Has he been proven to be "wrong a lot"? When did this happen?

Until it does, I think questioning whether someone is reputable is irresponsible.

[Belfast_Boy]

Drogba not reputable.
DeRo reputable.

[Shakes McQueen]

I always appreciate a guy who will speak his mind when it's appropriate. That said, DeRo is a biased source to get any real perspective from. He has a clear horse in this race, as do the rest of the players.

Likewise, I'd take anything the league has to say with a grain of salt.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

I always appreciate a guy who will speak his mind when it's appropriate. That said, DeRo is a biased source to get any real perspective from. He has a clear horse in this race, as do the rest of the players.

Likewise, I'd take anything the league has to say with a grain of salt.

- Scott

This I can agree with.

But's a long way from being biased to non-reputable.

[Shakes McQueen]

This I can agree with.

But's a long way from being biased to non-reputable.

I agree. I don't really know how DeRo's honour or reputation enters into the discussion.

One more thing Roogsy... "but's"? :D

- Scott

[Roogsy]

LOL! Maybe I have my mind on other things.

http://cdn.buzznet.com/media-cdn/jj1/headlines/2009/01/david-beckham-butt-squeeze.jpg

[Dbl_D]

I think it is the player rights thing. Theres no such thing as a real free agent in this league, for instance a team must trade for Serioux's rights in order to sign him. That is complete bs

Im with the players most likely whatever it is, this league and its owners are a sham

I'll start by this is a disgrace that this isn't resolved... And Dero can talk his mind all he wants as long as he doesn't go off the Maradona deep end... :D

I think this could be to control things in the MLS and avoid what happened to us with Vince "you Suck" Carter and Alonzo Mourning... man we got totally rooked on that deal and paid Mourning (at a reported $10 million dollars) to go win a championship with Miami (we basically we still have Rasho, Sunny, Amir, Banks all to some fine wheeling and Dealing by Colangelo... but the NBA can handle this type of crap...

Its f n brutal if a player sits on his ass and plays 80% like VC his final year with us knowing he can get a bunch of cake somewhere else... and the team getting nothing... this would be a big problem in the MLS right now...

There is a problem with the pay structure but i think its because of weak markets like Columbus... (my prediction if the CBA doesn't go through, the weak markets are gone and were back to a 10 team super league...)

with :scarf: included

[Whoop]

While DeRo is "reputable" call me a cynic in that he's speaking out because he figures he has more to gain than anyone else. I mean he's been bitching about his salary since his Houston days. If a new deal is signed in favour of the players, I'm sure he's thinking that he's looking at getting a raise, when really if the players are striking it should be for those guys who make the league minimum.

I think that's where the discussion whether or not DeRo is "reputable".

And to give credit to DeRo for TFC getting grass is a slap in the face to all the other players who have criticized the turf - in public - before DeRo was even on TFC and to all those people working behind the scenes to get grass before DeRo bitched about it.

I'm sure his comments were the catalyst in all this. I didn't realize DeRo is god. :rolleyes:

[Roogsy]

Why would you be a cynic? Every player has their own interest at heart. They aren't in this for other players, they want to improve their own standing. That's not unreasonable, it's life. Name me one player who you honestly believe would feel differently?

As for players critiquing the turf...that is quite the short memory you have Whoop. If you remember...NO player wanted to comment on the turf for fear of pissing off the powers that be. It was torture getting a player to comment on how bad the turf was. Only in the last year did players really start coming out about it when the turf was so obviously bad that it was the elephant in the room. And that was long after DeRo had complained about it. I don't recall if he was the first to do so, but he was definitely one of the first.

And yeah, there are many other people behind the scenes that should be credited with getting the turf "turfed". I don't think anyone believes otherwise when referring to DeRo's comments about the turf. But it was a major factor, as was the loss of players as well as losing revenue in Real Madrid-like events.

To make it sound like we believe DeRo alone got it done for us is a remarkable twisting of people's words and opinions.

[Whoop]

Of course every player has their best interests at heart that's why it's nothing more than DeRo looking after himself... not some brothers-in-arms, solidarity speech.

Didn't Ronnie O'Brien criticize the turf? Didn't all those players who did not sign with TFC critique the fact that TFC was playing on turf?

And there has been mention in the past that DeRo speaking up was the impetus to getting grass. If you go through the thread, someone insinuates that DeRo speaking up got us grass.

As Surly once said, "Surly only looks after one guy - Surly!"

When someone bitches and moans too much... people start tuning you out.

[ag futbol]

I think this could be to control things in the MLS and avoid what happened to us with Vince "you Suck" Carter and Alonzo Mourning... man we got totally rooked on that deal and paid Mourning (at a reported $10 million dollars) to go win a championship with Miami (we basically we still have Rasho, Sunny, Amir, Banks all to some fine wheeling and Dealing by Colangelo... but the NBA can handle this type of crap...

Its f n brutal if a player sits on his ass and plays 80% like VC his final year with us knowing he can get a bunch of cake somewhere else... and the team getting nothing... this would be a big problem in the MLS right now...
d
Um we are about a million light years away from that currently.

And not to play devils advocate here... But if Rob Babcock and Richard Peddie weren't complete idiots those situations would have been avoided or damage would have at least been minimized. Most teams are smart enough to sever ties with a guy or at least sit him out when they see he's a distraction to the team. Dumb-cock allowed Carter to play himself (and his trade value) right into oblivion then traded for guys who he should have completely known were un-interested in coming to Toronto.


VkhQZNHcxmE

[thisisinternetclash]

Regardless of the actual content of his arguments, I find DeRo's manner of discussing any contentious point with the media so grating, to the point where I actively avoid listening to him speak so as to be able to still support him as a player. The guys needs some elocution lessons or something.

[Roogsy]

Of course every player has their best interests at heart that's why it's nothing more than DeRo looking after himself... not some brothers-in-arms, solidarity speech.

And who claimed it was a solidarity speech?


Didn't Ronnie O'Brien criticize the turf? Didn't all those players who did not sign with TFC critique the fact that TFC was playing on turf? Some did and some didn't but I can't remember one that did it while they were here until DeRo. Ronnie didn't criticize it until after he left. Let's find a list of players that criticized the pitch WHILE they were players because those are the ones that the team will pay attention to.


And there has been mention in the past that DeRo speaking up was the impetus to getting grass. If you go through the thread, someone insinuates that DeRo speaking up got us grass.Nobody insinuates that DeRo alone got us grass. But there is some credit going to DeRo, that is all that is found here. If someone claims more, I'd like to see it for myself.


As Surly once said, "Surly only looks after one guy - Surly!"

When someone bitches and moans too much... people start tuning you out.You'd like to think so...but in practice, not really. Especially when you're a two-time MVP and the team's top scorer. Like a different expression goes, put your money where your mouth is. With DeRo, he's done exactly that and therefore earned the right to speak his mind.

[v00d00daddy]

You'd like to think so...but in practice, not really. Especially when you're a two-time MVP and the team's top scorer. Like a different expression goes, put your money where your mouth is. With DeRo, he's done exactly that and therefore earned the right to speak his mind.


Absolutely. But people also have the right to disagree with him and voice that opinion.

What is with the view that nobody can do any harm as long as they wear the TFC jersey with pride. I don't get it.

For example....while we're talking about turf.....where was all the outrage when our Captain Canada was peddling the fieldturf that DeRo has since admonished and helped to get rid of.

Remember this thread?

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=4665

We hold these players on a pedestal too much. So much so that when some people voice their displeasure about what one of them says (ie DeRo and some of this thread) we have to stand up for the players as if they're our buddies.

[Roogsy]

I have no problems criticizing players. But in my opinion, it should be with good reason. I can't stand double-standards.

A player not producing on the pitch? Paste'em.

But a player who voices his opinion should be quiet (like many demand of him)? Why? You just defended people here voicing opinions...why exactly should he? Shouldn't both be able to do so?

For the record, nobody here has denied anyone the right to disagree and voice that opinion. Where does that come from?

[TFCRegina]

sportsnetsoccer (http://twitter.com/sportsnetsoccer)

Nick Garcia says both sides have agreed to a mediator in last ditch attempt to get a deal done between MLS and the players

what would we do without Nick Garcia....

Please don't ask those types of questions...you'll take us deep down the rabbit hole.

[jloome]

Who stakes their reputation on what anyone else says? I wouldn't stake my reputation on things you say Jeremy but I wouldn't questions whether you are reputable or not.

Yes, DeRo is outspoken. That's all that has been proven. Has he been proven to be "wrong a lot"? When did this happen?

Until it does, I think questioning whether someone is reputable is irresponsible.

That's what direputable means, Roogsy -- that something someone says will bring them or others into disrepute. That's what a reputation is.

So yeah, obviously you can be disreputable accidentally.

Regardless, I didn't. I just interpreted someone else's take on it.

My take was that the league should go to mediation, as I wrote on Red Nation last week. The league announced today it's going to mediation.

So, you coulda staked your rep on that one. But normally, I wouldn't recommend it ;)

[Whoop]

But a player who voices his opinion should be quiet (like many demand of him)? Why? You just defended people here voicing opinions...why exactly should he? Shouldn't both be able to do so?


Not suggesting that.

But when the majority of the topics on which he is giving his opinion on, lately, is money, or lack thereof, well I say "cry me a river."

Now if it was Gabe Gala, Nana Attakora or Sam Cronin talking about the lack of money, I'd have more sympathy.

That's not to say I'm on the owners side. But either way it's like a moot point as they're bringing in a mediator to hopefully resolve this issue.

[Roogsy]

What does it matter who talks about it as long as it gets done? DeRo isn't looking for your sympathy. But do you really think the owners will care if Nana is quoted in the paper with a similar opinion? Not as much as DeRo that's for sure.

Fan sympathy won't get this thing done. When the big players in the league make a stand, that is when things will happen. Do you not remember who resolved the US Soccer dispute in 2005?

[kodiakTFC]

If MLS went on strike could TFC hypothetically offer the players some money and play in NASL? I'm imagining no but it would be a pretty good plan B.

[James17930]

Excellent that they've called in a mediator.

I was thinking about this the other day, wondering if they could take it to arbitration.

I know mediation is not arbitration, but I guess it's a start.

And somehow I don't think the league would want arbitration because they'd probably lose big time.

[nascarguy]

What does it matter who talks about it as long as it gets done? DeRo isn't looking for your sympathy. But do you really think the owners will care if Nana is quoted in the paper with a similar opinion? Not as much as DeRo that's for sure.

Fan sympathy won't get this thing done. When the big players in the league make a stand, that is when things will happen. Do you not remember who resolved the US Soccer dispute in 2005?
nope and did not care about soccer on this side of the pond then.

[v00d00daddy]

I have no problems criticizing players. But in my opinion, it should be with good reason. I can't stand double-standards.

A player not producing on the pitch? Paste'em.

But a player who voices his opinion should be quiet (like many demand of him)? Why? You just defended people here voicing opinions...why exactly should he? Shouldn't both be able to do so?

For the record, nobody here has denied anyone the right to disagree and voice that opinion. Where does that come from?


I agree with your stance on this isssue. I also agree that it's going to take the big players in the league to let the owners know that the issue is not going to go away.

I just don't want to hear DeRo anymore. The more he talks, the more I get the impression that it's all about him. It's the way he says things. Couple that with the way he plays the game (not exactly a go with the flow, team first guy) and I get the impression that he's a bit of a whiner.

I never meant to suggest that you (or anybody else) said that people shouldn't voice their opinions. My apologies if that's how it came off.

[Roogsy]

I just don't want to hear DeRo anymore. The more he talks, the more I get the impression that it's all about him. It's the way he says things. Couple that with the way he plays the game (not exactly a go with the flow, team first guy) and I get the impression that he's a bit of a whiner.

It seems to be a growing consensus...if I were part of DeRo's circle I would probably advise him to ease off on the money talk.

[Whoop]

It seems to be a growing consensus...if I were part of DeRo's circle I would probably advise him to ease off on the money talk.

That's all I'm saying Roogsy.

Or at least what I'm trying to get at. LOL

The players are looking for sympathy from the fans that's why in his quotes, he stresses "fans". But really the owners don't care about the players - big or small - because if they did they would get it resolved.

Either way... less talk, more action is what I say.

[nascarguy]

I agree with your stance on this isssue. I also agree that it's going to take the big players in the league to let the owners know that the issue is not going to go away.

I just don't want to hear DeRo anymore. The more he talks, the more I get the impression that it's all about him. It's the way he says things. Couple that with the way he plays the game (not exactly a go with the flow, team first guy) and I get the impression that he's a bit of a whiner.

I never meant to suggest that you (or anybody else) said that people shouldn't voice their opinions. My apologies if that's how it came off.
your right on the money dero is bitching is getting really old there is no room on your team for cry baby's

[Keystone FC]

If MLS went on strike could TFC hypothetically offer the players some money and play in NASL? I'm imagining no but it would be a pretty good plan B.

At the beginning of talks ground rules were laid out that if their was a lockout or strike that the players couldn't go play for the lower division clubs in USL/NASL. But if there is a lockout or strike I am wondering how many players would honor this agreement in hopes of catching on with maybe Vancover or Portland who will be in MLS in 2011.