Four team V-Cup likely in 2011

[SweetOwnGoal]

Not specifically TFC or MLS related, but pretty big news in Canadian soccer with implications to TFC down the road.

The Edmonton Drillers will be announced today as the fourth fully pro club in Canada:

http://www.24thminute.com/2010/02/and-then-there-were-four.html

I've talked to CSA people before and they have been clear - when another team comes in at the D2 level or above, they go into the V-Cup draw.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

NICE!!!! Hopefully they get good support.

[Redcoe15]

NICE!!!! Hopefully they get good support.
It can't be any worse than the Edmonton Aviators from six years ago.

[Alarius]

It can't be any worse than the Edmonton Aviators from six years ago.
Edmonton... (shudder) tough crowd..

[Fort York Redcoat]

C'mon Edmonton prove all the detractors wrong!

[ManUtd4ever]

Not specifically TFC or MLS related, but pretty big news in Canadian soccer with implications to TFC down the road.

The Edmonton Drillers will be announced today as the fourth fully pro club in Canada:

http://www.24thminute.com/2010/02/and-then-there-were-four.html

I've talked to CSA people before and they have been clear - when another team comes in at the D2 level or above, they go into the V-Cup draw.

That is great news for the NCC. I hope that within a few years the tournament can be expanded to six teams if Calgary and Ottawa can be awarded MLS or USL/NASL franchises...

[Red CB Toronto]

It is a guarantee that Hamilton will have a team with Bob Young owning it. The new stadium is going up for the Pan Am games and his company MRX just signed a deal to do all the NASL websites plus he is a partner in Carolina.

I wonder how the format would work once you have say 5 + pro teams?

[Wagner]

It is a guarantee that Hamilton will have a team with Bob Young owning it. The new stadium is going up for the Pan Am games and his company MRX just signed a deal to do all the NASL websites plus he is a partner in Carolina.

I wonder how the format would work once you have say 5 + pro teams?

The hamilton stadium will be approximately 60Km from BMO.
that's insane.
and it's going to be a big stadium.
we'll totally be able to take it over.

[SweetOwnGoal]

It is a guarantee that Hamilton will have a team with Bob Young owning it. The new stadium is going up for the Pan Am games and his company MRX just signed a deal to do all the NASL websites plus he is a partner in Carolina.

I wonder how the format would work once you have say 5 + pro teams?


Five teams = Three MLS teams get bye. Two D2 teams play a single game to claim fourth spot. Play a four team group.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

It is a guarantee that Hamilton will have a team with Bob Young owning it. The new stadium is going up for the Pan Am games and his company MRX just signed a deal to do all the NASL websites plus he is a partner in Carolina.

I wonder how the format would work once you have say 5 + pro teams?

Five teams would probably necessitate one or more teams getting a bye through the first stage of the competition. A league system would be too big for this many teams.

As for six teams, I can see this contingent being divided into two groups of three, with the winning team from each group playing in the V-Cup final. Seven or more teams, your guess is as good as mine.

[Beach_Red]

It's good news. I've been thinking lately, the future for soccer in Canada is better than it is in the US. Mainly because most markets in Canada don't have to compete with baseball all summer like pretty much every American market.

Soccer can become #1 summer sport in Canada (I know, it already is for kids playing, but I mean at the pro level, too).

[NF-FC]

5 teams + CSL champ, 2 groups of 3, round robin competition. the 2 group winners play the championship.

[Red CB Toronto]

Five teams = Three MLS teams get bye. Two D2 teams play a single game to claim fourth spot. Play a four team group.

My next question is then, when do you see Joey Saputo getting to the table to finalize a deal with the MLS, Could you see a 2012 start for the Impact?

[Red CB Toronto]

5 teams + CSL champ, 2 groups of 3, round robin competition. the 2 group winners play the championship.

With the following teams:

Toronto
Montreal
Edmonton
Vancouver
Hamilton
CSL

In this scenario, who would be the third team in the west bracket, no way it could be the CSL team, with cost and all, so who from the east would get bumped out to the West?

[Macksam]

When Hamilton talks about playing in the NASL, do they mean the New Ti-Cats stadium or Sherwood Park?

[NF-FC]

With the following teams:

Toronto
Montreal
Edmonton
Vancouver
Hamilton
CSL

In this scenario, who would be the third team in the west bracket, no way it could be the CSL team, with cost and all, so who from the east would get bumped out to the West?

Random draw. The CSL has already talked about creating a travel fund for the champions to participate in the V's cup as it currently stands, meaning trips to Vancouver are already anticipated.

[TFCRegina]

As long as Edmonton isn't owned by another team participating.

The CSL champ should have been included from the beginning. It's an embarrassment that they aren't.

[Wagner]

When Hamilton talks about playing in the NASL, do they mean the New Ti-Cats stadium or Sherwood Park?

the new PanAm Games stadium down by bayfront park.

[Wagner]

what if the TFC academy wins the CSL?
rules that say your CSL team is in a different pool?
what if they make it to the final?

[NF-FC]

what if the TFC academy wins the CSL?
rules that say your CSL team is in a different pool?
what if they make it to the final?

Simple, TFC academy and Trois Rivieres aren't eligible

[NF-FC]

In the next 5 years the Voyageurs cup should look like this:

Toronto
Montreal
Vancouver
Edmonton
Hamilton
Ottawa
CSL champ
PCSL champ

Home and away knockout tourney

[SweetOwnGoal]

My next question is then, when do you see Joey Saputo getting to the table to finalize a deal with the MLS, Could you see a 2012 start for the Impact?


Montreal has already been given a team. The holdup is getting provincial government to expand the stadium. Literally, the second that comes through the Impact will be announced.

[Red CB Toronto]

I would not just give it to the CSL Champion, I think a tourney, like the old Canadian Open would work best, where the BC teams ala PCSL,VMSL, PDL play a west bracket and then the Ontario teams such as CSL, PDL etc would do the same. Reserve teams and academy teams would not be allowed to take part in it.

The BC team entered the tourney in the Semi-Final.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Open_Canada_Cup (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Open_Canada_Cup)

[NF-FC]

I would not just give it to the CSL Champion, I think a tourney, like the old Canadian Open would work best, where the BC teams ala PCSL,VMSL, PDL play a west bracket and then the Ontario teams such as CSL, PDL etc would do the same. Reserve teams and academy teams would not be allowed to take part in it.

The BC team entered the tourney in the Semi-Final.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Open_Canada_Cup (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Open_Canada_Cup)

The PDL season doesn't even start by the time the V's cup ends. All of their players are in US colleges.

[TFCRegina]

Simple, TFC academy and Trois Rivieres aren't eligible

Exactly. I have no problems. IF TFC Academy wins it, it goes to the 2nd place. And if the 2nd place side is Trois Rivieres, then it goes to 3rd.

Not a difficult concept.

[Keegan]

Once we get 6+ teams I think you start looking at an FA Cup/Home and Away tie type competition. Aggregate away goals all that jazz

[ilikemusic]

Ncie to see this tournament growing. :canada:

[SilverSamurai]

WHOO!!!
Finally #4!

[boban]

Once we get 6+ teams I think you start looking at an FA Cup/Home and Away tie type competition. Aggregate away goals all that jazz
Nah ... not enough money to be made by the clubs.
Up to 8 teams you will still see group competition.
2 groups of 3 or 4 (depending on how many teams).

[boban]

In the next 5 years the Voyageurs cup should look like this:

Toronto
Montreal
Vancouver
Edmonton
Hamilton
Ottawa
CSL champ
PCSL champ
Funny how nobody mentions Moncton as a possible NASL team.
They get a new 10,000+ seat stadium this year in a region that has no other pro sports team, let alone in the summer.
Plus there is a lot of support of the game of soccer in general on the east coast.
This would be a perfect market for a 2nd division team.

[Broadview]

We're gonna need a bigger roster.

[SilverSamurai]

Funny how nobody mentions Halifax as a possible NASL team.
They get a new 10,000+ seat stadium this year in a region that has no other pro sports team, let alone in the summer.
Plus there is a lot of support of the game of soccer in general on the east coast.
This would be a perfect market for a 2nd division team.
I'm actually surprised Halifax has no real sports. I mean you'd think the CFL would expand out east.

I agree that Halifax would be a good market though. Lobster and footy. :):hump:

[jaahuuu]

I'm actually surprised Halifax has no real sports. I mean you'd think the CFL would expand out east.

I agree that Halifax would be a good market though. Lobster and footy. :):hump:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Schooners

[boban]

I'm actually surprised Halifax has no real sports. I mean you'd think the CFL would expand out east.

I agree that Halifax would be a good market though. Lobster and footy. :):hump:
Actually my mistake. It's Moncton with the stadium.
But nonetheless, east coast soccer could be supported at the 2nd division.

[kodiakTFC]

Fantastic news! More Canadian teams the better. Get your act together Hamilton, Quebec City, Moncton/Halifax, Calgary, Ottawa and Victoria(good attendance in pdl, maybe worth a shot).

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

I'm excited about this from the perspective of the V-Cup, but a little concerned about Edmonton's capacity to be a successful franchise without a viable stadium.

[James17930]

This has been brought up many times before:

CSL teams cannot compete in the NCC because they don't have the appropriate finances or CONCACAF approved venues should they get through to the Champions League.

Teams must be fully professional to be eligible -- CSL isn't.

[Redcoe15]

I'm crossing my fingers for London to be involved in that tournament some day.

[twistedchinaman]

^ London will probably get there before a lot of western cities...other than Edmonton, I just can't see any major inroads in cities like Winnipeg, Calgary, Regina and Saskatoon.

[Yeoman]

i've heard rumblings about london, won't say anything further then that though.

[Red CB Toronto]

This has been brought up many times before:

CSL teams cannot compete in the NCC because they don't have the appropriate finances or CONCACAF approved venues should they get through to the Champions League.

Teams must be fully professional to be eligible -- CSL isn't.

That is not completely true, while highly unlikely if one of the USASA teams won the US Open they would get one of the US spots in Champions League.

A USAS team has beat a MLS team in the US Open on one occassion, 2006 when Dallas Roma beat Chivas USA.

[Shway]

^^^very true
it would make sense to expand this tournament having a playing in between the PDL teams FC London, Toronto Lynx, Thunderbay CHill, and a playing in with the CSL teams




i've heard rumblings about london, won't say anything further then that though.

makes sense they got 5k to some of there games this season,
the would have to go NASL though

[ag futbol]

I'm actually surprised Halifax has no real sports. I mean you'd think the CFL would expand out east.

I agree that Halifax would be a good market though. Lobster and footy. :):hump:
As a native Haligonian, I'd say the following:

-CFL is thrown out there often, but until somebody actually opens their wallet to pay for a stadium it isn't happening. Even if it did, the economics are relatively unproven.
- There is a basketball and major junior team in town that both draw well. They might not be highest level pro sports but they're still competition.
- Of all the cities that get mentioned for expansion, Halifax has by far the smallest corporate base and i'd be willing to bet lowest income per household. That's not going to help at the gates or when trying to grow revenue. It's mainly a university / public service town. Corporate activity is picking up but you have idiots running the city that tell corporations they either make their office towers four stories tall or build them in crack infested neighborhoods. You can imagine what that does.

People need to keep in mind that outside of the major urban centers in Canada the interest in soccer as a professional sport is mostly fringe. Cities like Halifax simply don't have the demographics or population base to support a team yet.

In the future this could be a good idea, but right now I definitely think it would fall on it's face.

[DichioTFC]

what about a CSL all-star team? get the very best from each team and create a starting XI from them.

This would enhance the visibility of the entire CSL and would make for more enjoyable games. Plus the CSL teams would probably be in favour of their best players getting national media attention and would be willing to cover their costs.

[SweetOwnGoal]

I'm actually surprised Halifax has no real sports. I mean you'd think the CFL would expand out east.

I agree that Halifax would be a good market though. Lobster and footy. :):hump:


Have you ever been to Kitchener-Waterloo? Halifax is smaller. With less wealth.

The Maritimes are a biiiiig stretch.

[/guy that lived in Fredericton for 5-years]

[Blizzard]

what about a CSL all-star team? get the very best from each team and create a starting XI from them.

This would enhance the visibility of the entire CSL and would make for more enjoyable games. Plus the CSL teams would probably be in favour of their best players getting national media attention and would be willing to cover their costs.

I hope that would never happen. The Voyageurs/Nutrilite is a club competition, not an all-star tournament.

[DigzTFC!]

I've seen you write that few times Duane. I love your blog but I think you're way too dismissive. Most guys I grew up with started playing soccer at 8 years old in Halifax. I actually was surprised that the level of competition was similar when I moved to Toronto.

As someone who grew up in Halifax it has a soccer culture, just not a supporters culture which is a big distinction as that usually occurs when there is a team. It's also hard to sell TFC to my friends at home because the level can be painfully bad during certain games and they prefer better leagues. However, most of them are excited to follow Montreal when they come into the league because of their undying hate for Onterrible.

If population size is one of the more topical issue why don’t you use the proper number? Halifax Metro is listed at 411,007. You’re looking at the Urban number at 282,924. While Halifax doesn’t get much credit as a potential expansion city, I think it is real hidden gem. There is a strong soccer participation in the city. Lets compare Halifax to Winnipeg as an expansion city….look at their player registration numbers. Winnipeg has a population of 739,000 (Metro) and 17,054 registered players in all of MB, where as Halifax is 411,007 (Metro) with 29,106 registered players in NS. Now considering Nova Scotia only has a population 939,531, nearly half of population is concentrated in Halifax. You could assume the around 15,000 or more registered players are concentrated in the city which is nearly the entire soccer registration of MB. 3% of the NS population are registered soccer players which is more than the national average for hockey 1.75%.


For any sport expansion to Halifax the issue has always been infrastructure and money. Make the in game atmosphere all about drinking and singing and it would do really well. Someday, I hope to make this happen. Any team that plays in Halifax usually gets well supported as it is starved for entertainment in between drinking.

[DichioTFC]

I hope that would never happen. The Voyageurs/Nutrilite is a club competition, not an all-star tournament.

Yeah Blizzard, you're right.

[SilverSamurai]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Schooners
Well I learned something today.

Actually my mistake. It's Moncton with the stadium.
But nonetheless, east coast soccer could be supported at the 2nd division.
I think the stadium is being built at the UdeM? If so then I saw them making it when I was there. Well preparing the area.

Fantastic news! More Canadian teams the better. Get your act together Hamilton, Quebec City, Moncton/Halifax, Calgary, Ottawa and Victoria(good attendance in pdl, maybe worth a shot).
Quebec City?
They (and Winnipeg deserve an NHL team, but we all know the "Buttman" factor...

But I could see PDL working in Quebec, Moncton or Halifax and Ottawa.

I'm excited about this from the perspective of the V-Cup, but a little concerned about Edmonton's capacity to be a successful franchise without a viable stadium.
Did you forget about Commonwealth? ;)

As a native Haligonian, I'd say the following:

-CFL is thrown out there often, but until somebody actually opens their wallet to pay for a stadium it isn't happening. Even if it did, the economics are relatively unproven.
- There is a basketball and major junior team in town that both draw well. They might not be highest level pro sports but they're still competition.
- Of all the cities that get mentioned for expansion, Halifax has by far the smallest corporate base and i'd be willing to bet lowest income per household. That's not going to help at the gates or when trying to grow revenue. It's mainly a university / public service town. Corporate activity is picking up but you have idiots running the city that tell corporations they either make their office towers four stories tall or build them in crack infested neighborhoods. You can imagine what that does.

People need to keep in mind that outside of the major urban centers in Canada the interest in soccer as a professional sport is mostly fringe. Cities like Halifax simply don't have the demographics or population base to support a team yet.

In the future this could be a good idea, but right now I definitely think it would fall on it's face.
I meant that their is no upper league sports team w/ a presence there. It's pretty much university sporting at best.
My experience out east is limited I admit.
I do think w/ the right advertising and promotions it COULD work. I also think that the CFL could do well, but in the hands of a capable owner. They would have no other competition, as far as professional sporting goes.

Have you ever been to Kitchener-Waterloo? Halifax is smaller. With less wealth.

The Maritimes are a biiiiig stretch.

[/guy that lived in Fredericton for 5-years]
I grew up in Cambridge (sadly) and am stuck here again.
I think a pro hockey team could do well, since Balsille has deep enough pockets to make it work.
However one thing that the K-W region is sorely lacking is infrastructure, Cambridge especially. Public transportation is downright horrible. The region JUST got the GO Bus this fall. I'm not saying a subway system is needed but the planners were out to lunch here. The region is simply not being made in a sustainable manner.
But that's another topic for another day.

However, K-W being an hour away from Toronto has much more competition, Halifax doesn't.
I don't think a semi-pro footy team could survive out here.


I've seen you write that few times Duane. I love your blog but I think you're way too dismissive. Most guys I grew up with started playing soccer at 8 years old in Halifax. I actually was surprised that the level of competition was similar when I moved to Toronto.

As someone who grew up in Halifax it has a soccer culture, just not a supporters culture which is a big distinction as that usually occurs when there is a team. It's also hard to sell TFC to my friends at home because the level can be painfully bad during certain games and they prefer better leagues. However, most of them are excited to follow Montreal when they come into the league because of their undying hate for Onterrible.

If population size is one of the more topical issue why don’t you use the proper number? Halifax Metro is listed at 411,007. You’re looking at the Urban number at 282,924. While Halifax doesn’t get much credit as a potential expansion city, I think it is real hidden gem. There is a strong soccer participation in the city. Lets compare Halifax to Winnipeg as an expansion city….look at their player registration numbers. Winnipeg has a population of 739,000 (Metro) and 17,054 registered players in all of MB, where as Halifax is 411,007 (Metro) with 29,106 registered players in NS. Now considering Nova Scotia only has a population 939,531, nearly half of population is concentrated in Halifax. You could assume the around 15,000 or more registered players are concentrated in the city which is nearly the entire soccer registration of MB. 3% of the NS population are registered soccer players which is more than the national average for hockey 1.75%.


For any sport expansion to Halifax the issue has always been infrastructure and money. Make the in game atmosphere all about drinking and singing and it would do really well. Someday, I hope to make this happen. Any team that plays in Halifax usually gets well supported as it is starved for entertainment in between drinking.
I have to agree with this.
Halifax is in a good spot (not central like Moncton though) but it's 2.5-3hrs from Moncton and about 3-3.5hrs from Charlottetown.
I don't think the Maritimes could support an MLS level squad (hey I'd love to be wrong though) but something like a CSL or CFL team I think could work.

[DigzTFC!]

NASL/USL stadiums are around 5,000 seats and expandable to 10,000.

The cost of these stadiums are around $20-25 Million. That's a better model for Halifax than CFL which is 30,000+ seat stadiums that cost $60-80 Million. In fact, I would go further to say the economics of a NASL team might be the only model that would work in Halifax given the cities conservative approach to sport infrastructure.

As for the CSL - attendance revenue wouldn't be able to generate enough to cover travel costs alone.

[Steve]

As a native Haligonian, I'd say the following:

-CFL is thrown out there often, but until somebody actually opens their wallet to pay for a stadium it isn't happening. Even if it did, the economics are relatively unproven.
- There is a basketball and major junior team in town that both draw well. They might not be highest level pro sports but they're still competition.
- Of all the cities that get mentioned for expansion, Halifax has by far the smallest corporate base and i'd be willing to bet lowest income per household. That's not going to help at the gates or when trying to grow revenue. It's mainly a university / public service town. Corporate activity is picking up but you have idiots running the city that tell corporations they either make their office towers four stories tall or build them in crack infested neighborhoods. You can imagine what that does.

People need to keep in mind that outside of the major urban centers in Canada the interest in soccer as a professional sport is mostly fringe. Cities like Halifax simply don't have the demographics or population base to support a team yet.

In the future this could be a good idea, but right now I definitely think it would fall on it's face.

Yep, I agree with you. I lived in Halifax for 5 years, and spent a lot of time in Moncton (which was also mentioned).

For Moncton, let's put it this way, how would you like a major sport in Sarnia? Or Norfolk? That would be the size of Moncton. Coming from southern Ontario the size of that city is tiny. Sure, it sounds big because it's the biggest city in NB, but it really isn't. With a population of less than 70k, there is no way it can support a sports team in a relatively unpopular sport (out there) with any kind of attendance. Essentially, forget about Moncton.

And for Halifax, I agree with the above poster. Again, Halifax sounds promising coming from upper Canada since it's the largest city in the east coast by far (with an urban population of just under 300k). The problem is, it's not that big by our standards (we have about 7 cities larger than it in Ontario). Not only that, but as mentioned, the mean income is fairly low, the corporate presence is virtually non-existent, and the sporting landscape is tenuous at best. The big team out there is the Mooseheads (of the Quebec Junior Hockey League). Now, you might think that would make it prime for soccer, but it doesn't. People there really don't care about soccer (I was there for a few world cups, they barely registered on the city radar). It's essentially Hockey or bust, and even there they can only support a Junior hockey team, and not that well. Personally, I would love to see more sport out east, I just don't see it as viable. It isn't a part of the culture, nor a realistic addition to the economy.

[Steve]

I have to agree with this.
Halifax is in a good spot (not central like Moncton though) but it's 2.5-3hrs from Moncton and about 3-3.5hrs from Charlottetown.
I don't think the Maritimes could support an MLS level squad (hey I'd love to be wrong though) but something like a CSL or CFL team I think could work.

Haha, sorry, but it's fairly obvious you haven't spent much time out east (which isn't a bad thing, I haven't spent much time in many places in Canada).

To respond to that point, geography out east is a funny thing. Halifax is considered much more "Central" than Moncton. Moncton is a small town that no one visits. West of Moncton is... nothing. Seriously, drive west from Moncton, you're likely to tear your eyes out before reaching anything interesting (you just keep looking for signs for Riviere-du-loup, which is also in the middle of nowhere). Halifax is "the center" of the east because it's the only place that has a "big" city feel to it. All of the hospitals/etc for the east coast are in Halifax. So if you wanted an east coast team, the only viable place is Halifax (though as I said above, even that is iffy). You will get people from Moncton to go to Halifax to see a team, you would not get people from Halifax to go to Moncton.

Essentially, choosing Moncton as the center of the east coast is like choosing Sudbury as the center of Ontario. Geographically it might make sense, but it doesn't in any way that matters.

[DigzTFC!]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Hockey_League#Attendance
CHL Attendance

Top CHL teams by average attendance, 2007–08 regular season. Teams with an average attendance over 6,000 shown.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Hockey_League#cite_note-1)
1.Quebec Remparts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_Remparts)(QMJHL)10,980.92.Calgary Hitmen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calgary_Hitmen)(WHL)9,071.63.London Knights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Knights)(OHL)9,012.94.Vancouver Giants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_Giants)(WHL)8,717.35.Ottawa 67's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa_67%27s)(OHL)8,103.36.Halifax Mooseheads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_Mooseheads)(QMJHL)7,588.77.Spokane Chiefs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spokane_Chiefs)(WHL)6,557.18.Everett Silvertips (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everett_Silvertips)(WHL)6,424.59.Kelowna Rockets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelowna_Rockets)(WHL)6,118.210.Kitchener Rangers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchener_Rangers)(OHL)6,038.2

I agree with your sentiments on some things, but please look things up before you start painting a picture. The Mooseheads are well supported and have been one of the top attended CHL franchises for years. Watch a Brampton Battalion game....it's basically empty. Halifax has a long history of supporting amateur sporting events and second teir franchises.

People watch soccer in their houses. From the sounds of it you probably went to school there so you wouldn't have seen that. You probably assumed that there would be some ethnic contingent that pour into the streets in celebration like Toronto. Well, to be frank, when immigrants come to Halifax they become part of the Halifax culture and are assimilated to certain extent. There isn't a ethnic divide its just Halifax for better for for worse.

Whatever the case, I can give statistics all day but other people have their own perspectives on what Halifax is.

[TFCRegina]

As a former resident of Halifax, I don't think a top division team could survive in the area. I think a NASL team might be able to make a go of it, and I think the culture down east is the perfect culture for soccer. The corporate culture is small, but doesn't have to compete with any other professional clubs. I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to say a team would survive there with no problems, barring a CFL expansion (and if they get whiff of soccer expansion, they might just decide to find a partner for those Schooners).

Halifax is the centre of the Maritimes universe. Moncton is a joke.

[Beach_Red]

As a former resident of Halifax, I don't think a top division team could survive in the area. I think a NASL team might be able to make a go of it, and I think the culture down east is the perfect culture for soccer. The corporate culture is small, but doesn't have to compete with any other professional clubs. I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to say a team would survive there with no problems, barring a CFL expansion (and if they get whiff of soccer expansion, they might just decide to find a partner for those Schooners).

Halifax is the centre of the Maritimes universe. Moncton is a joke.

You must be English. Now, I've had my problems with Moncton since I went to Harrison Trimble High School there, but with the re-emergence of Acadian culture, Moncton's not so bad. But the best parts of it are the French parts. Moncton is becoming a Little Montreal.

It's kind of interesting that the CFL game is going to be in Moncton and Toronto is the home team and they'll be playing Edmonton. It's too bad Montreal isn't in that game.

The French half of New Brunswick identifies a lot more with Quebec, so if there was a Quebec city team and a Montreal team, Moncton would probably draw okay. The junior teams in the Q do okay.

New Brunswick is probably more divided along English-French lines than Quebec because there is so little cross-over. UNB and Universite de Moncton don't seem to know each other exists.

So, maybe someday there'll be a decent lower level Canadian league with teams in Moncton AND Halifax.

[polak9pete]

Hamilton Croatia was approved the newest member of the CSL for 2010..i guess thats a start for possible future Hamilton teams .

http://www.thespec.com/Sports/article/719173

[LittleOzzy]

This is great news as long as the team from Edmonton will not be connected with Vancouver as it's rumoured to be.

Edmonton should be a stand alone team in my opinion and I hope it ends up that way.

[NF-FC]

This is great news as long as the team from Edmonton will not be connected with Vancouver as it's rumoured to be.

Edmonton should be a stand alone team in my opinion and I hope it ends up that way.

Then you'll be happy because it is.

On a side note, if Victoria joins the USL2 west division for 2011, are they automatically eligible?

[e-karam]

Random draw. The CSL has already talked about creating a travel fund for the champions to participate in the V's cup as it currently stands, meaning trips to Vancouver are already anticipated.

I hope it would be random. It wouldn't be the greatest if we played the same teams every year.

[boban]

Hamilton Croatia was approved the newest member of the CSL for 2010..i guess thats a start for possible future Hamilton teams .

http://www.thespec.com/Sports/article/719173
How so?

[SilverSamurai]

Haha, sorry, but it's fairly obvious you haven't spent much time out east (which isn't a bad thing, I haven't spent much time in many places in Canada).

To respond to that point, geography out east is a funny thing. Halifax is considered much more "Central" than Moncton. Moncton is a small town that no one visits. West of Moncton is... nothing. Seriously, drive west from Moncton, you're likely to tear your eyes out before reaching anything interesting (you just keep looking for signs for Riviere-du-loup, which is also in the middle of nowhere). Halifax is "the center" of the east because it's the only place that has a "big" city feel to it. All of the hospitals/etc for the east coast are in Halifax. So if you wanted an east coast team, the only viable place is Halifax (though as I said above, even that is iffy). You will get people from Moncton to go to Halifax to see a team, you would not get people from Halifax to go to Moncton.

Essentially, choosing Moncton as the center of the east coast is like choosing Sudbury as the center of Ontario. Geographically it might make sense, but it doesn't in any way that matters.
Oh I know Moncton isn't the most "happening" place. I was only there a month (felt longer at times. lol) and spent 2 days in Halifax. I'm not saying I'm an expert or anything.

I was saying Moncton solely based on geographical location. I do think out of the 2, Halifax is a MUCH better place.
Maybe CSL or PDL, but nothing top flight like MLS.

Halifax is the "hub" out east, but I know in the past Moncton was because of the railway.
Oh Shiac... you confuse me... ;)

[T_Mizz]

I really don't think having a CSL team or PDL team is possible just because of the fact that they'd be put there to lose with no possibility of goiung forward in the case that they do pull off the miracle upsets needed to take the tournament. PDL is out because it's only a summer league so they wouldn't be able to play the CCL games anyway. Same thing kind of goes for the CSL but there's also the added problem of money, in that they don't have any. How are they going to fly to puerto rico or even host a home game in their tiny stadiums.

[DigzTFC!]

You build a stadium specific for an NASL team.

That's how that works.

There are business out there you know....Keith's Brewery, Oland's Brewery, Clearwater, Bank of Nova Scotia, RIM, Hedge Funds....there are industries. Its almost embarrassing to listen to some of this. For God's sake, even Ontario is a have not Province right now. Wait until after the Pan Games. Halifax stepped away from the Commonwealth Games, smartly, and Ontario is headed into the eye of the storm.

[ag futbol]

You build a stadium specific for an NASL team.

That's how that works.

There are business out there you know....Keith's Brewery, Oland's Brewery, Clearwater, Bank of Nova Scotia, RIM, Hedge Funds....there are industries. Its almost embarrassing to listen to some of this. For God's sake, even Ontario is a have not Province right now. Wait until after the Pan Games. Halifax stepped away from the Commonwealth Games, smartly, and Ontario is headed into the eye of the storm.
As someone who pretty much typifies the emigration that takes place all the that place I have to confront you with the following:

Percent of nation GDP / GDP per person
Nova Scotia GDP - 2% - 36,500
Ontario - 40.28% - 45,400
Quebec – 20% - 38,980
BC - 12.45% - 45,150
RIM – satellite office

Scotiabank – HQ in Toronto, no real additional presence in the province outside of what is justified by the population base.

Hedgefunds – yes I saw all those articles in the paper too and I wondered what the buz was. Then I looked closer, it wasn’t hedge fund “management” (where the money is made), it’s hedge fund admin and custody. So basically deposit takers that earn 1/10th of what the real money makes. Sorry to burst your bubble but it’s about one level above the call-centre phase they got into about 10 years back.

Keith's Brewery, Oland's Brewery, Clearwater = three companies, none of an amazing size or quality. Definitely not enough to base making a team on.

I love Halifax but it is as backwards as they come when it comes to corporate development (which is part of the reason I left! Because if there were jobs I gladly would have stayed). A community like London or Kitchener-Waterloo has a much larger base.

I am hopeful for the future as progress seems to be coming a lot faster lately, but you simply can't compare what's there now to even the 2nd class opportunities out there.

[DigzTFC!]

You're absolutely right that corporate Canada's hub isn't Halifax.

There also aren't entry level jobs, which is why I'm here. An MBA with no experience means nothing.

However, we need to roll back this idea that in order for a stadium to be built in Halifax it has to be 30,000+ for CFL. For the NASL, it would be 5,000+. The build costs for those are enormously different. To be honest, an NASL stadium is probably the only thing you could get built with a P3.

It can be done and it will be done. :drinking:

By the way, am I to assume that because you've presented NS's GDP as a small percentage of Canada's overall GDP that Halifax cannot sustain a team as oppossed to any other city within the other provinces listed? It is a bit of a leap in logic.

[Bars92]

What is this the Halifax thread? Nice place to visit sure. Bring on the Hamilton team!

[ag futbol]

By the way, am I to assume that because you've presented NS's GDP as a small percentage of Canada's overall GDP that Halifax cannot sustain a team as oppossed to any other city within the other provinces listed? It is a bit of a leap in logic.
No, but as a broad measure of corporate activity I think it speaks for itself. Clearly the point was used within a context, not to suggest we dole out teams to Thunder Bay and Drummondville.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

What is this the Halifax thread? Nice place to visit sure. Bring on the Hamilton team!

Well said. Edmonton will be the fourth V-Cup team, after all.

[Steve]

As someone who pretty much typifies the emigration that takes place all the that place I have to confront you with the following:

Percent of nation GDP / GDP per person
Nova Scotia GDP - 2% - 36,500
Ontario - 40.28% - 45,400
Quebec – 20% - 38,980
BC - 12.45% - 45,150
RIM – satellite office

Scotiabank – HQ in Toronto, no real additional presence in the province outside of what is justified by the population base.

Hedgefunds – yes I saw all those articles in the paper too and I wondered what the buz was. Then I looked closer, it wasn’t hedge fund “management” (where the money is made), it’s hedge fund admin and custody. So basically deposit takers that earn 1/10th of what the real money makes. Sorry to burst your bubble but it’s about one level above the call-centre phase they got into about 10 years back.

Keith's Brewery, Oland's Brewery, Clearwater = three companies, none of an amazing size or quality. Definitely not enough to base making a team on.

I love Halifax but it is as backwards as they come when it comes to corporate development (which is part of the reason I left! Because if there were jobs I gladly would have stayed). A community like London or Kitchener-Waterloo has a much larger base.

I am hopeful for the future as progress seems to be coming a lot faster lately, but you simply can't compare what's there now to even the 2nd class opportunities out there.

Sadly, you're correct. I'm from Ontario but went to school in Halifax. I loved the city and wanted to stay and work after school, but I found that completely impossible. The best thing I could get with a university degree was a call centre. So, I came back here and relatively quickly landed a good job. Believe me when I say I wish it was some other way, I loved Halifax, but that's the reality of it right now.

[ag futbol]

/threadjack


So back to those drillers.

I'm really impressed with the coaches they've hired. If i heard a Eredivisie coach and a former dutch U-20 coach were heading up an MLS side i'd be impressed. Judging by the below article they also seem willing to bring in foreign expertise to develop local talent (CSA please take note!).

Sounds like a great step for the game in Canada. Hopefully someone like Ottawa follows.


http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2010/02/11/fc-edmonton-soccer-is-the-newest-nasl-team-and-do-they-have-plans/

[TFCRegina]

/threadjack


So back to those drillers.

I'm really impressed with the coaches they've hired. If i heard a Eredivisie coach and a former dutch U-20 coach were heading up an MLS side i'd be impressed. Judging by the below article they also seem willing to bring in foreign expertise to develop local talent (CSA please take note!).

Sounds like a great step for the game in Canada. Hopefully someone like Ottawa follows.


http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2010/02/11/fc-edmonton-soccer-is-the-newest-nasl-team-and-do-they-have-plans/

They won't be called the drillers, the owner said FC Edmonton was actually regarded as "fresh" and "clean sounding" and a good name overall.

[Keegan]

Edmonton Drillers FC would be an AWESOME name

Really euro and north american sounding at the same time.

Bolton Wanderers FC
Blackburn Rovers FC

Sorta like that

[Keystone FC]

/threadjack


So back to those drillers.

I'm really impressed with the coaches they've hired. If i heard a Eredivisie coach and a former dutch U-20 coach were heading up an MLS side i'd be impressed. Judging by the below article they also seem willing to bring in foreign expertise to develop local talent (CSA please take note!).

Sounds like a great step for the game in Canada. Hopefully someone like Ottawa follows.


http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2010/02/11/fc-edmonton-soccer-is-the-newest-nasl-team-and-do-they-have-plans/

Here is the thing I got from the article...well one of the things anyway. Mel says that FCE will not be affiliated with the Whitecaps unlike the rumors saying otherwise. So, if FCE is not going to be the replacement club for the VanCaps when they make the jump to MLS, and the Caps still plan on placing a club in the NASL as it's developmental or feeder club, then there is a possibility of a 5th club in the V-Cup next season.

[Keegan]

Here is the thing I got from the article...well one of the things anyway. Mel says that FCE will not be affiliated with the Whitecaps unlike the rumors saying otherwise. So, if FCE is not going to be the replacement club for the VanCaps when they make the jump to MLS, and the Caps still plan on placing a club in the NASL as it's developmental or feeder club, then there is a possibility of a 5th club in the V-Cup next season.

No I don't think so... they won't be affiliated but Im pretty sure Edmonton is taking Vancouvers spot in the league. They just wanna keep the numbers the same doing this

[Keystone FC]

No I don't think so... they won't be affiliated but Im pretty sure Edmonton is taking Vancouvers spot in the league. They just wanna keep the numbers the same doing this

I recall the Caps saying that they wanted to 'put' a franchise in the Caps absense as to be a 'feeder' club that they could control. Now if FCE is seperate from the Caps and the Caps still want to have a 'feeder' club of some kind then that tells me that there would be another Canadian club to be added to the NASL next season and 5th club in the V-Cup.
Unless lack of sleep has made me delusional (which it very well be).

I'm just going off the rumors that went around after the Caps made their statement and then the 'Edmonton Drillers' were announced as the replacement club that Vancouver was going to place in the league only to come to find that FC Edmonton has no affliation with the Caps.

Maybe I'm just getting my hopes up.:(

[NF-FC]

I don't think you will see "Feeder" clubs in the NASL

[trane]

I like it the more Canadian teams the better for footy in this country.

[ag futbol]

I recall the Caps saying that they wanted to 'put' a franchise in the Caps absense as to be a 'feeder' club that they could control. Now if FCE is seperate from the Caps and the Caps still want to have a 'feeder' club of some kind then that tells me that there would be another Canadian club to be added to the NASL next season and 5th club in the V-Cup.
Unless lack of sleep has made me delusional (which it very well be).

I'm just going off the rumors that went around after the Caps made their statement and then the 'Edmonton Drillers' were announced as the replacement club that Vancouver was going to place in the league only to come to find that FC Edmonton has no affliation with the Caps.

Maybe I'm just getting my hopes up.:(
I believe what you're saying is accurate because the article states they had brief discussions with Vancouver about a couple of things but otherwise they are totally separate.

Unless I've missed something like you have, they made it sound like they are a totally different franchise. Unrelated to the current Whitecaps team or their USL rights.

[TFCRegina]

They're definitely a separate club.

They've talked to the Whitecaps, but I'm sure MLSE and Saputo have done the same in the past and will probably do so in the future.

Talking is not indicative of affiliation. Talking means they're acquainted and aware of each other.

[Keystone FC]

I don't think you will see "Feeder" clubs in the NASL
I'm sure you're right and I do think there may be something in MLS rules about doing just that, but it could be just part of their developmental system. The Caps have clubs in PCSL (both men's and women's) and have their Unders in various leagues around Vancouver and BC. The Caps replacement club could be just another step in developing talent. Kind of like TFC Academy in CSL and I would love for TFC to have develop clubs in the USL's PDL and even USL 2.

[NF-FC]

Kind of like TFC Academy in CSL and I would love for TFC to have develop clubs in the USL's PDL and even USL 2.

There really wouldn't be much of a point in TFC creating a PDL or USL-2 team. PDL is a step down from CSL and USL-2 is only a marginal step up.

[Keystone FC]

There really wouldn't be much of a point in TFC creating a PDL or USL-2 team. PDL is a step down from CSL and USL-2 is only a marginal step up.
As USL 2 stands right now I think a TFC club would fit nicely (Geographicly) with clubs in Pittsburgh and Harrisburg and a marginal step is a step and who knows what will happen after this season in the NASL/USL saga.
I also came across this and really don't know what to make of it:
http://www.canadasoccer.com/news/viewArtical.asp?Press_ID=3974
Could this be a step for the CSL to ACTUALLY start to become a national soccer league? Will this allow CSL clubs next season to be apart of the NCC?