Nick Garcia

[James17930]

Contrary to what everyone and his dog thinks about his abilities, here's still here, and look! There he is even doing interviews.

The unthinkable has happened -- they're actually going to keep him around.

Thoughts?

[Super]

Doh!

[Yeoman]

anyone have a baseball bat kicking around?

[Mikey]

Let Serioux go and keep Garcia??????????? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:

[James17930]

Let Serioux go and keep Garcia??????????? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:

Well, and that's probably why.

With Serioux gone (and though no one knows for sure, it seems it's injury related), we actually need Garcia at the moment, if only for a placeholder.

Who knows -- maybe if the trialists work out then Garcia will be gone -- guess we'll have to wait and see.

[TFC FORZA RPB]

Let Serioux go and keep Garcia??????????? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:

I think we need a Dichio sized banner of the above with the palm covering the eyes and forehead

[Kevvv]

Serioux is injured, possibly seriously (facepalm, facepalm). Let the new coach worry about Garcia - I'm sure Preki won't want to fail in this position and will play Garcia as he sees fit.

[Nuvinho]

Garcia played with Preki and MoJo in KC.....I have a feeling too that Garcia will be around at least til the summer.

[MUFC_Niagara]

This is unfortunate. He is to TFC as William Prunier was to Manchester United!

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i dont think that serioux has anything to do with garcia, if serioux is injured (especially a career ending injury) then thats that. Garcia on the other hand should not be here, i have no clue why he is and there needs to be some sort of justification (whether its on the field or else where)

[MUFC_Niagara]

Garcia played with Preki and MoJo in KC.....I have a feeling too that Garcia will be around at least til the summer.

And this is what irritates me. This isn't an old boys club for Mo to reunite with his buddies. In order to win you have to be ruthless sometimes. Getting rid of Garcia falls into this category....he's awful. Get rid of him!

[Hitcho]

And this is what irritates me. This isn't an old boys club for Mo to reunite with his buddies. In order to win you have to be ruthless sometimes. Getting rid of Garcia falls into this category....he's awful. Get rid of him!

Agreed, except there's nothing ruthless about getting rid of Garcia. Even if he's your brother, best man and lifelong best bud, you give him the flick for the good of the team and offer to buy him a pint afterwards. Or in Mo's case, offer to let him buy you a pint. :D

[jazzy]

And this is what irritates me. This isn't an old boys club for Mo to reunite with his buddies. In order to win you have to be ruthless sometimes. Getting rid of Garcia falls into this category....he's awful. Get rid of him!

+1, Dangerous road, our season will be decided on the strength of our coach's independence and balls.

[Marco2K]

If he is still on this team it could be another long season.

[Wooster_TFC]

So, going into the new season you guys want to start with Nana and Gomez as our starting centre backs, with absolutely no backup to them?

Seems imprudent to me. You keep Garcia around until you absolutely do not need him, or need to clear space to pick up someone else. If you cut him now and Nana or Gomez goes down with an injury of some sort, what then?

Just a little premature to be calling for his head. As well, Preki seems like the type of coach that would not keep someone around just for old times sake. If he believe Garcia is useless, Garcia would be gone.

[Nuvinho]

As i said before, I think Garcia will be here until we need cap room. He could even be here until the June transfer window (similiar to Sutton).

[JuliquE]

You know what?! I've hated Garcia for as long and as much as anyone else, here.. but something tells me that, with Preki at the helm, we might be alright. He's no-nonsense, and has a clear view of the system he'd like to employ.. especially where defence is concerned.

As much as I hate dude, a tiny part of me wants to see him redeem himself. Okay, he's effed up - couple really silly mistakes, which wound up costing us dearly.. but I don't think we would have expected as much, looking at his resume.

I know it's a cliché, around here.. but I think it fair to presume that most all players fell victim, last season, to the chaotic coaching of the very green Chris Cummins - bless his heart.

I know this is beginning to feel like the plot line of some mushy Disney flick, but I'm just trying to remain optimistic; nothing else we can do, I don't think.. not especially with the news of Serioux and his injury.

Tschuess.

[v00d00daddy]

So everybody hates Garcia? I'm not gonna delude myself into thinking he'sthe greatest player but the hate for him here is over the top.

We need to be ruthless and cut him?

Fine...then cut the other dead wood on this team and I'm okay with cutting Garcia.

Unfortunately the other dead wood is our captain, our former Welsh Intl, and the greatest right back in the USMNT system.:rolleyes:

I agree with the previous poster. Preki has a plan to get the most out of his players. I hope it succeeds.

[Section 117]

IMO I don't think that Garcia is in Preki's plans at all

[Hitcho]

I don't think it's fair to say that everyone is "hating" Garcia. As fans it's natural to be concerned that a CB who was unreliable last season and seems worryingly past it in terms of his career is still on the books and potentially a starting player for the new season. That's worrying, so the natural course of action is to hope that the player is shipped out to remove the liability. It's got nothing to do with "hating", just wanting to remove a potential liability from the back line. I'd wish him well elsewhere, but I'd rather not see him playing for TFC this season based on the form he's shown since he joined us.

On another note, he was identified as being a "cancer" and "Mo's snitch" in the dressing room last season. I have no idea if that's true or not. If it is, then I want him gone immediately before pre-season gets properly underway and Preki's squad starts to gel and settle. I don't think we can really know if he was the bad apple (or one of them) last season to be honest - there have been conflicting reports about the dressing room atmosphere last season and no-one is clearing it up at this point.

Having said that, can't see Preki taking shit from anyone (Mo included) so you'd have to hope he can sort out any dressing room issues. The ethos seems to be work your ass off FOR THE TEAM or get the fuck out. I'm fine with that approach! If Preki can also restore some kind of form to Garcia then that would be great. But given that last seaosn Garcia seemed to be incapable of running fast, jumping, heading or positioning himself well, I don't hold out much hope for that. :D

[koryo]

Until further explanation comes forth, this is the first sign that Preki is a Mo "yes man".

Let it be the last.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

The problem with Garcia is that he's so SLOW... which isn't something that can be corrected by training harder or anything like that, unless that means not going out for dinner with Ali Gerba and running more on the treadmill.

As long as we're stuck with him though, I hope he does better this season.

[JuliquE]

I'll concede that he's always had a stench of Mo to him, and that will always be cause for one to worry with a dressing room as troubled as ours.

Much as I appreciate your ever-balanced perspective on things, Hitchio, I'm not sure that the majority would share the same sentiments (i.e. I think the theme of "hate" is very prevalent).

That said, neither is "unnatural"; we're, all of us, humans.. and you raise valid points regarding his form. At the same time, it's a little difficult to judge, when one takes into account our coaching inadequacies last season.

Again, I simply feel that Preki will know, better than anyone, about playing to the strengths of his squad.. and so, from this, I try and take some solace.

Tschuess.

[TFC Tifoso]

Contrary to what everyone and his dog thinks about his abilities, here's still here, and look! There he is even doing interviews.

The unthinkable has happened -- they're actually going to keep him around.

Thoughts?



:facepalm:

[Section 117]

Until further explanation comes forth, this is the first sign that Preki is a Mo "yes man".

Let it be the last.


No chance that Preki is Mo's "yes man" The problem is due to salary cap and a roster restictions he can not get rid of everyone in one swoop. Many of the larger contracts that Mo gave out are guaranteed and you can't just cut them.

But you will notice by the end of the pre season this team will be very well organized and some players might get benched or see a lot less playing time.

[TFCRegina]

The problem with Garcia is that he's so SLOW... which isn't something that can be corrected by training harder or anything like that, unless that means not going out for dinner with Ali Gerba...

Made my day...

[ag futbol]

Garcia is rumored to have a guaranteed contract (credit goes to DB @ the v's site). Same with one or two others (Gerba). They are dead man walking if not for their deals.

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090121&content_id=213342&vkey=news_sje&fext=.jsp

[Hitcho]

I'll concede that he's always had a stench of Mo to him, and that will always be cause for one to worry with a dressing room as troubled as ours.

Much as I appreciate your ever-balanced perspective on things, Hitchio, I'm not sure that the majority would share the same sentiments (i.e. I think the theme of "hate" is very prevalent).

That said, neither is "unnatural"; we're, all of us, humans.. and you raise valid points regarding his form. At the same time, it's a little difficult to judge, when one takes into account our coaching inadequacies last season.

Again, I simply feel that Preki will know, better than anyone, about playing to the strengths of his squad.. and so, from this, I try and take some solace.

Tschuess.

Well, I hate the IDEA of garcia being in our squad (and god forbid, the starting line up) for the upcoming season, but I can't say I hate the guy himself. he screwed up pretty badly a few times last season but I never really got the impression that he wasn't trying. if he is a bad apple in the dressing room then I'd hope to see him gone asap, same goes for anyone else in that situation though. met him once, he seemed like a decent enough guy, although how can you really tell from a brief meeting I guess.

Anyway, I agree that Preki seems like the kind of coach to play to his squad's strengths, especially in defence, and I have no doubt that he'll do whatever he can to sort the squad and team out. I'm just worried that for this season at least, his hands will be tied by things like guaranteed contracts, over-inflated salaries for players no-one wants and Mo's former mistakes coming back to haunt us.

I think at best this season will be a transitional period for the club. By this time next year I'd hope that we're all a lot more optimistic about the upcoming season though! :scarf:

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Garcia is rumored to have a guaranteed contract (credit goes to DB @ the v's site). Same with one or two others (Gerba). They are dead man walking if not for their deals.

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090121&content_id=213342&vkey=news_sje&fext=.jsp

sorta thought that was the case (i dunno if gerba would definitely be a dead man walking, he didnt get much of a go last year and it will be a do or die season for him)

[rocker]

the same things people say about Garcia are (to a degree) the same things people said about Marshall (slow, old, pylon etc.)... in a proper system with some decent teammates he's probably serviceable... as Marshall was in Seattle. But when you put him alongside kids learning on the job and you make him defend Conor Casey then you have a big problem. I remember that Colorado game..... Nana did well defending Casey but then later in the game it was always Garcia vs. Casey. I dunno if that was because they felt Nana should be watching the speedy Colorado forward or what... but the physicality of Casey and height was just too much for him.

Don't put players in bad situations.

[Hitcho]

^ there's some sense in this, but at the same time if you are a CB then you have to be able to defend. You cannot shield your defenders from playing against players to avoid putting them ina bad situation. I agree that you try and match defenders to forwards iof the need arises, but as a basic rule, you just have to be able to defend against the level of striker you encounter in MLS. if you can't, then thanks but bye bye. that's nothing against garcia, it;s true for everyone.

[mastermixer]

I posted this in the other Nick Garcia thread but I need to vent...
Damn! Why do I feel that this team is worse off than it was last year!!
Too much drama and its only day freakin 5 of training camp!
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

[jloome]

Interesting that no one else seems to be rushing to pick up Colombian players, despite the successes at Seattle last year and the upcoming signing (potentially) of Sergio Herrera by DC United.

THey're obviously financially realistic and Colombia has a long history of producing excellent players. You think there might be one other defender down there that we can afford?

[Roogsy]

the same things people say about Garcia are (to a degree) the same things people said about Marshall (slow, old, pylon etc.)... in a proper system with some decent teammates he's probably serviceable... as Marshall was in Seattle. But when you put him alongside kids learning on the job and you make him defend Conor Casey then you have a big problem. I remember that Colorado game..... Nana did well defending Casey but then later in the game it was always Garcia vs. Casey. I dunno if that was because they felt Nana should be watching the speedy Colorado forward or what... but the physicality of Casey and height was just too much for him.

Don't put players in bad situations.

Agreed 100%.

Garcia hasn't lasted in this league for no reason at all. In a different system, I think he can play better. Last year he did not fit at all. I don't know Preki's system so I can't say for certain that Garcia will not be a starter for TFC. I will have to wait and see I suppose.

[Roogsy]

Interesting that no one else seems to be rushing to pick up Colombian players, despite the successes at Seattle last year and the upcoming signing (potentially) of Sergio Herrera by DC United.

THey're obviously financially realistic and Colombia has a long history of producing excellent players. You think there might be one other defender down there that we can afford?


Paul Beirne has told us TFC don't feel it is able to scout Latin American players and prefer to concentrate on Africa.

[ag futbol]

Paul Beirne has told us TFC don't feel it is able to scout Latin American players and prefer to concentrate on Africa.
True, but at the same time judging by the comments and reports of the activity we made in south america. We were ... relatively clueless.

Of note, Garcia was crap in SJ also before leaving. I think he's hit that downward spiral.

[v00d00daddy]

Paul Beirne has told us TFC don't feel it is able to scout Latin American players and prefer to concentrate on Africa.

Did he give a reason why they can't scout in South America?

[ag futbol]

Did he give a reason why they can't scout in South America?
There was talk of over-saturation of agents and the market being over / scouted exploited.

Re: the columbians. I think there were three blanket signings earlier this year that ended up in KC and Phily (one was named pablo escobar). None seemed to be of a starter quality however.

[TOBOR !]

Thoughts?

surely there are two other useless threads devoted to this useless player such that there's hardly a necessity to create another one... Or two as it happens.

[johnmolinaro]

Garcia is rumored to have a guaranteed contract (credit goes to DB @ the v's site). Same with one or two others (Gerba). They are dead man walking if not for their deals.

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090121&content_id=213342&vkey=news_sje&fext=.jsp

He's on a guaranteed deal this season. after that, club has option to re-sign him or let him go.

[reggie]

thx for the info john....mo blows....

[tfc007]

Nick Garcia is fucken useless,I know hes buddys with Preki but MLSE wake up and smell the coffee, get rid of him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nuvinho]

pretty hard to get rid of a guaranteed contract, especially in the MLS, and if no other team wants him.

They may have to buy him out, don't know if it still counts towards the cap tho.

[ArmenJBX]

Enough of the hate.

He is not Marco Velez. He is not Kevin Harmse. Given the proper role with some structure, Nick Garcia can be a solid center back.

Picture the scenario before. You've got a young, raw talent in Nana Attakora beside you, who, let's face it, for all his great play, still has a lot to learn. To your right you have Marvell Wynne who's further then Sam Cronin on the field 80% of the time. So, you have to take care of your position, while taking care of Wynne's position, and at the same time, you've got Nana's mistakes to cover, and Jimmy doesn't have the legs to help as much as he used to....It becomes a big mess. Even throughout all this, he still made good stops one on one, and in his lack of speed still came out on top more often then not. It's those times he made mistakes that they were costly, sure, but think about it. Why is it that four or five center backs (Garcia, Harmse, Velez, Marshall, Tebily) have played that position and still we're complaining about it? It's Marvell's inability to stay in position coupled with inadequate support.

I personally believe that with the right players around him, Nick Garcia has all the tools necessary to be a solid center back in this league. I think we can all agree that the current situation isn't best suited for a center back. Is Nick Garcia the best possible centerback possible? No, definitely not. He is still slow and short. But, put Nana Attakora on the right, pair Garcia with someone like Andrade, and get a decent left back, and I'm sure Nick Garcia will thrive, when given that proper structure and role which, let's face it, we never have had.

[spark]

Enough of the hate.

He is not Marco Velez. He is not Kevin Harmse. Given the proper role with some structure, Nick Garcia can be a solid center back.

Picture the scenario before. You've got a young, raw talent in Nana Attakora beside you, who, let's face it, for all his great play, still has a lot to learn. To your right you have Marvell Wynne who's further then Sam Cronin on the field 80% of the time. So, you have to take care of your position, while taking care of Wynne's position, and at the same time, you've got Nana's mistakes to cover, and Jimmy doesn't have the legs to help as much as he used to....It becomes a big mess. Even throughout all this, he still made good stops one on one, and in his lack of speed still came out on top more often then not. It's those times he made mistakes that they were costly, sure, but think about it. Why is it that four or five center backs (Garcia, Harmse, Velez, Marshall, Tebily) have played that position and still we're complaining about it? It's Marvell's inability to stay in position coupled with inadequate support.

I personally believe that with the right players around him, Nick Garcia has all the tools necessary to be a solid center back in this league. I think we can all agree that the current situation isn't best suited for a center back. Is Nick Garcia the best possible centerback possible? No, definitely not. He is still slow and short. But, put Nana Attakora on the right, pair Garcia with someone like Andrade, and get a decent left back, and I'm sure Nick Garcia will thrive, when given that proper structure and role which, let's face it, we never have had.

You make it sound like Garcia is 25. He is at the end of his career and we have seen what he has to offer. TFC don't need a guy who will give the most based on who or what he is surrounded by - they need a CB who delivers the goods regardless of who he is paired with. As many have said, Nana is best suited at CB so keep him there and find the player to guide and show him the ropes so he keeps developing at that position.

If Garcia was deemed expendable when he was paired with Jimmy Conrad then I'm not sure why the situation would be any different here pairing him with a solid CB.

[hodgkiss]

wow!

i think nick garcia haas to be one of the worst players to ever suit up for tfc.

marshall, velez and harmse were actually better than garcia!

i actually never understood why we got rid of marshall. he was getting older yes but i thought he still had a few years. and frankly, i didn't think he played that badly.

even with preki's coaching... what will happen is that he will ride the bench once they see his play. he talks a big game but he's nowhere near the skill level that a professional should be.

his positioning sucks, he can't mark a player well at all, he's slow, he doesn't like to get involved in play, he makes very painful decisions and he looks awkward. there is absolutley nothing about him that makes him a player that any coach would want to start.

put it this way, if preki decides to start him in the first game, i will have lost all respect for preki that i now have.

[Yeoman]

he cost us the game against chicago last year because of terrible passing, he was tired at the end, and was constantly beat on the challenges.

[jazzy]

Paul Beirne has told us TFC don't feel it is able to scout Latin American players and prefer to concentrate on Africa.

Where they are noteably, not defensive minded to a fault, it's fun football but all hell can break loose. We don't even have a offensive minded attack or talent to to envision all out speed footaball a la African's game, interesting choice of scouting, we will get maybe a few exciting players but will they help the team? or will they just be used as carrots to sell for profit?

[wzhxvy]

Nick Garcia is worse than Marco Velez and Kevin Harmse. Never have I seen opposition target a specific back against us as much as this "has been". Not only do opposition target him, but they hate him because he is a loud mouth (few MLS players called him out last year for talking too much to compensate for his declining abilities...when people start saying that on the record...you know its a wide spread opinion).

And now we find out that he is on a guaranteed contract. Hey Mo, why dont you treat him like you did Dichio and have him play 90 minutes for the academy or something...but oh no...this tool gets to wear the badge. Disgraceful.

[Chevy]

Enough of the hate.

He is not Marco Velez. He is not Kevin Harmse. Given the proper role with some structure, Nick Garcia can be a solid center back.

=I personally believe that with the right players around him, Nick Garcia has all the tools necessary to be a solid center back in this league. I think we can all agree that the current situation isn't best suited for a center back. Is Nick Garcia the best possible centerback possible? No, definitely not. He is still slow and short. But, put Nana Attakora on the right, pair Garcia with someone like Andrade, and get a decent left back, and I'm sure Nick Garcia will thrive, when given that proper structure and role which, let's face it, we never have had.

I agree that there is enough hate going around for Garcia, but your suggestion that the club build itself around Garcia is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a very long time.

[Roogsy]

He didn't say build the club around him, he said with the right players around him, those are two different things.

One infers Garcia is a central focus. The other infers he is just part of a collective team.

[ArmenJBX]

He didn't say build the club around him, he said with the right players around him, those are two different things.

One infers Garcia is a central focus. The other infers he is just part of a collective team.

Exactly, and this is just what Preki did with Chivas, he made a solid collective unit without, let's just say, the quality he would want. He made do. When players play within a role, and they're given a one-bit job, they perform better, especially knowing that there are others who have their back.

Preki says it all the time, "we've got to get the guys playing for each other", well, if you have a solid backline, Nick Garcia can play a functioning role in it. This is a fundamental part of any team. Look at any team in the premier league that isn't the big four. They don't all have hotshot centerbacks like JT or Rio, but some of them have solid backlines of hardworking players who know their job. This is crucial for defenders; Know your job.

Hopefully we can get some younger, higher quality players. That would probably be best for TFC. But, I'm just saying, it's not fair judging players when we haven't seen the new system. Hell, who knows, this time next year, Nick Garcia may be the best defender on our team, and we would be laughing at how we doubted him. Do I think he is right for us right now? Hell no. But do I think that, perhaps, under Preki, he can be a better player for us, along with the rest of the backline? I sure as shit hope so.

[andyc]

At $200k for a defender, that's quite a big salary to position players around him as support... He's not going to get any better so this isn't an investment.

Let's face it, Mo was screwed over by San Jose because he was desperate to get Gerba's rights. Looks like Trader Mo lost on both sides of the deal...

[ag futbol]

Where they are noteably, not defensive minded to a fault, it's fun football but all hell can break loose. We don't even have a offensive minded attack or talent to to envision all out speed footaball a la African's game, interesting choice of scouting, we will get maybe a few exciting players but will they help the team? or will they just be used as carrots to sell for profit?
I’d say that’s generally unfounded. Despite their own teams playing “attack minded soccer” (which isn’t actually true depending on where you’re scouting) there are more than a fair number of players from the continent in MLS right now who are standouts at their position.

I'm not saying it's shooting fish in a barrel (nowhere is), but you can scout for just about whatever you want.

[swan]

had a dream last night that he was off the team...

[rocker]

At $200k for a defender, that's quite a big salary to position players around him as support... He's not going to get any better so this isn't an investment.

Let's face it, Mo was screwed over by San Jose because he was desperate to get Gerba's rights. Looks like Trader Mo lost on both sides of the deal...

But I think your point fails to recognize coaching.

Forget Garcia for a second... but Gerba was misused in an even worse way than Garcia was. The coaching staff had no clue about what to do with Gerba. He's not a guy you kick long balls to and watch him run like a gazelle onto. That's dumb strategy. He's a guy who will battle in the box, fight, and score goals with a powerful shot. But expecting Gerba to chase balls is like expecting Dichio to chase balls (doesn't happen). Similarly, the coaching staff seems to assume Garcia could defend tall, strong players like Conor Casey but obviously he couldn't. So why not place Nana or Gomez on those tall players?

This is coaching to me.

I don't think coaches can afford, in this league, where players are flawed, to hang players out to dry with bad systems. In MLS the GM can't go out and get whatever the coach wants to solve all problems. Instead the coach must work with what he has and minimize exposure to weaknesses.

I think (as others have said above) that a team isn't a collection of parts. It's a machine where all the parts work together. If we keep looking at it as a collection of individuals, we'll always criticize players. No player will look good enough, so there will be an endless stream of new players in the team. But if our coach can put players in positions to succeed, players will look less problematic.

Finally we have that coach. I'm not interested in the talents or problems with any one player anymore. I want to see a team. I hope Preki can do that.

[Chevy]

He didn't say build the club around him, he said with the right players around him, those are two different things.

One infers Garcia is a central focus. The other infers he is just part of a collective team.

Very true.

That said, the simplest solution is to remove an underperforming player (and also one with no upside-its not like he's 19 and needs to learn) and replace him with a better one, rather than placing the "right" players around him so he doesn't look so bad.

Hell, I could play on the back line for the Azzurri and we would still get a few clean sheets, but it doesn't mean that I should.

[ManUtd4ever]

I'm sure that Garcia has played well enough in the MLS throughout his career to justify his longevity but his present day value has declined substantially which is exactly why a bottom feeder like San Jose dumped him last season. I'm fairly certain that Garcia wouldn't make an opening day roster for any other MLS club this season yet here we are debating his worth to TFC. The simple fact of the matter is that he's lost a step and he wasn't exactly fleet a foot to begin with. I can recall at least 3 games last season that he stood out for all the wrong reasons and that in of itself could have been the difference between TFC making the playoffs and being on the outside looking in. It is a sad testament to our current depth that he is still on the roster and I can only hope that trialists like Said and Andrade play to their potential in training camp so that at the very least, Garcia will start the season as a reserve...

[jloome]

Enough of the hate.

He is not Marco Velez. He is not Kevin Harmse. Given the proper role with some structure, Nick Garcia can be a solid center back.

Picture the scenario before. You've got a young, raw talent in Nana Attakora beside you, who, let's face it, for all his great play, still has a lot to learn. To your right you have Marvell Wynne who's further then Sam Cronin on the field 80% of the time. So, you have to take care of your position, while taking care of Wynne's position, and at the same time, you've got Nana's mistakes to cover, and Jimmy doesn't have the legs to help as much as he used to....It becomes a big mess. Even throughout all this, he still made good stops one on one, and in his lack of speed still came out on top more often then not. It's those times he made mistakes that they were costly, sure, but think about it. Why is it that four or five center backs (Garcia, Harmse, Velez, Marshall, Tebily) have played that position and still we're complaining about it? It's Marvell's inability to stay in position coupled with inadequate support.

I personally believe that with the right players around him, Nick Garcia has all the tools necessary to be a solid center back in this league. I think we can all agree that the current situation isn't best suited for a center back. Is Nick Garcia the best possible centerback possible? No, definitely not. He is still slow and short. But, put Nana Attakora on the right, pair Garcia with someone like Andrade, and get a decent left back, and I'm sure Nick Garcia will thrive, when given that proper structure and role which, let's face it, we never have had.

Total nonsense. He was, without a doubt, the worst centre half in the league for the second half of last season. Nana made him look like an inept child, and I highly doubt has much to learn from him , aside from being vocal.

AS for why four or five centre halfs have played and we're still complaining? You need two good ones to marshall the middle. We've continually had one, at best. Right now, we have one, Nana Attakora. We have a kid in Emmanual Gomez who needs fire and composure, but has the physical talents and intelligence on the pitch to become a starter within a year or two.

If Nick Garcia sees the pitch for anything other than a severe emergency, it will be too soon. (And frankly, given how he played in his one appearance for us, I'dtake 39 year old Rick Titus over Garcia in an emergency).

And by the way Jimmy, with respect to Marco Velez, he was twice the centre-half for us that Nick Garcia has been, and he also wasn't good enough.

[Hitcho]

I agree with Jezza.

But to satisfy your request Jimmy Bald, let's leave any hatred 100% aside (and see my post above on this too). Now let's consider, in isolation, the fact that Garcia is painfully slow and utterly unable to keep up with most MLS attackers - not just the fast ones, but any of them. And we'll add to that the fact that he is not very tall and cannot jump very well, which makes him poor in the air. And finally, we'll throw in his terrible positional play for much of last season. He can tackle, and shout, but that's about it. Clearly his presence didn't bring any stability or confidence to the abckline last season, so why should we expect it to change this season? New coach, yes. But can Preki really make up for all of the above flaws? I'm guessing no.

So, from a neutral point of view, it would be better for TFC to off-load Garcia as soon as possible and replace him with someone else. I'd even take Gomez over Garcia this season. My only worry there would be throwing Gomez in too early and potentially damaging his confidence and development, but if he deals well with the pressure (and he seems to have the confience to do so based on what we saw of him last season) then he stands to be a much better player for us than Garcia would be.

Oh, and Garcia will be another year older which doesn't exactly suggest he's going to be improving on the physical deficiences he suffered from last season.

[rocker]

Very true.

That said, the simplest solution is to remove an underperforming player (and also one with no upside-its not like he's 19 and needs to learn) and replace him with a better one,

well, that's easier said than done in MLS. I can probably go through most MLS teams and find a defender who isn't that good. But you surround him with better players and his flaws are not exposed.

Again, I return to Tyrone Marshall. I have a long memory and can remember a good portion of this board saying he was total shit, over the hill, a pylon etc. Not everyone said that of course. But in Seattle he's alongside Hurtado and others and he looks decent.

This isn't europe where you can just go out and buy better players at every position.. the cap is a problem.

Now, if Garcia gets that support and a proper system and he still blows chunks, the dump him. hahaha.

[Voodooman]

Ill give someone 20 dollars to run on the field, and injure him.

[Hitcho]

Ill give someone 20 dollars to run on the field, and injure him.

Would it not make more sense to have someone injure him as he arrives at the stadium prior to kick off? That way, we don't have to waste a substitution during the game and/or risk him making a fuck up between kick off and "injury time". Just saying, is all... :D:D:D

[Voodooman]

Would it not make more sense to have someone injure him as he arrives at the stadium prior to kick off? That way, we don't have to waste a substitution during the game and/or risk him making a fuck up between kick off and "injury time". Just saying, is all... :D:D:D

Thats very true....man doesn't he realize, that we don't like him?

[ArmenJBX]

I still feel like he's got something left to give, but maybe it's just me. I would much rather we get rid of him and get someone better, don't get me wrong. It's just that I think that he didn't do as horrible as some make him out to be. Over the full 90 minutes, he made mistakes, but he also stopped a lot of plays too. Maybe I just noticed it, but he wasn't horrible during the game itself. It was the breakaways/counter attacks where he showed his weakness. To be fair, he does have a lot of shortcomings, and he isn't the best of centerbacks.

I also think he's the scapegoat for the season last year. He's taking a lot of flack for our failure last year to make playoffs. A lot of overexaggerated comments have been made about him, when in reality, he was just a poor player.

I think, however, we can all agree, that the back of Garcia is something we all want to see on the way out of the Toronto FC Revolving Door (tm)

[Hitcho]

You may have a point Jimmy Bald, although I still don;t think his deficiencies can be overcome enough to make it worthwhile keeping him. if he does stay, then I hope he proves me wrong.

However, I'm also concerned at the amount of unofficial finger-pointing that went on suggesting that garcia was a "mole" and a "cancer" in the dressing room and on the training pitch last season. This may be unfounded, but it would be just as big of a concern to me as his poor performances if true.

Overall, I'd rather just see him gone. Now if we can just trick someone into trading for him...

[jloome]

Now if we can just trick someone into trading for him...

Hitcho, you kill me with these outlandish propositions.

Seriously, I think you'd have an easier time with the aforementioned pre-game hit squad.

[Hitcho]

Hitcho, you kill me with these outlandish propositions.

Seriously, I think you'd have an easier time with the aforementioned pre-game hit squad.

Ha ha! Don't be hasty Jezza. I'm sure Mo has some dirt pre-dug up on as many people as possible (this may explain how he got a contract extension with MLSE), so for "trick" read "bribe", "blackmail", "coerce", "swindle", "scam" or "threaten" as you please... :D:D:D

Oh, and the hit squad thing would be dead easy to pull off. Garcia arrives through gate four before the matches (or the players' gate sometimes I guess) and all you need is a pair of crutches and someone pretending to be a bit hapless with them. Or an SUV that can drive over concrete pylons. Simple.

I jest, I jest. I don't wish Garcia any ill at all, I just don't think he's good enough to be on the TFC squad based on last season, so I'd like to see him traded or released or paid off or whatever the various (legal, fair, reasonable and viable) options are.

[TOBOR !]

Oh man... This thread is a classic. Garcia isn't Velez or Harmse - FFS, he isn't even Braz or Reda, and no amount of coaching is going to make him a better player... And the notion of building a system to best suit his style is mental... After all, what would that be ? A 5-3-2 using a defensive MF ?

[DichioTFC]

we kinda need garcia at least for the beginning of the season. he didnt play well under Cummins, and honestly, his blame could probably be shared of poor tactical management

[Blizzard]

we kinda need garcia at least for the beginning of the season. he didnt play well under Cummins, and honestly, his blame could probably be shared of poor tactical management

I agree with you. Garcia, in the right system, can be ok. He may never be as good as he was in his prime but he can be a contributor if the side is being handled properly.

We have to hope this is so. He's making relatively good money with us and we need him to play well.

[Auzzy]

I know there's something we need more than for Garcia to stay or to go: we need the new season to start, so we can talk about real news, real performance, real old or new players, etc.....