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View Full Version : Why not scout the CSL?



Damien
01-25-2010, 06:16 PM
http://www.dkbsoccer.ca/images/CanadianSoccerLeague-LOGO_.jpg

Is the league that crap?
Are there no borderline MLS quality players in the CSL?
Or maybe even a utility player we could use?

ExiledRed
01-25-2010, 06:18 PM
I'm sure we do scout the CSL.

It would be silly not to considering our academy plays in it.

UltraSuperMegaMo
01-25-2010, 06:18 PM
I have no doubt the team is aware of the quality in the CSL. Several CSL players have trained with the team, played reserve games (in the old reserve league), and even appeared in a friendly.

Damien
01-25-2010, 06:18 PM
^ yes, but how many players have come from other CSL teams?

UltraSuperMegaMo
01-25-2010, 06:19 PM
^ yes, but how many players have come from other CSL teams?

Every CSL player who played in the old reserve league for TFC was from another team.

trane
01-25-2010, 06:21 PM
I am suprised that more CSl players do not make it onto MLS rosters. Many seems to be fundamentaly more sound that the average MLS player. However, athleticism may be another issue.

T_Mizz
01-25-2010, 06:46 PM
While we're on the subject... when are we going to sign our first academy player? Houston, LA and some others have already signed one and I believe the two year wait should be completed for those who have been with the academy since the beginning.

ag futbol
01-25-2010, 06:49 PM
While we're on the subject... when are we going to sign our first academy player? Houston, LA and some others have already signed one and I believe the two year wait should be completed for those who have been with the academy since the beginning.
Yeah this is the bigger issue in my mind. But on the other hand, from what I've seen of who's there now ... I don't think there is anybody who's ready. If they don't start producing soon it's time to ask questions.

TFC is aware of the CSL as far as i know. Maybe slightly under-used but it's still early.

UltraSuperMegaMo
01-25-2010, 06:57 PM
Mo has consistently said they're taking two academy players to camp with an eye to signing them. The MLS has some newish rule where teams can sign an academy player and carry them as an extra development player but they can only play in non-league matches.

VPjr
01-26-2010, 04:56 PM
I am quite comfortable stating that there are a handful of players in CSL that could occupy the 20th-24th roster spot at TFC and likely other teams in the league. Maybe one or two might be able to crack an 18 man lineup. If it really hard to gauge how good some of these players might be at the MLS (or USL) level until you put them in a fully professional environment. I think some players who look good in CSL would look even better in MLS because they would thrive as a full time pro and there are others who would sag under the pressure and daily grind of being a full time pro.

I would hope that TFC would do some local scouting in CSL but I doubt they really pay the league much attention. They should...the CSA saw fit to invite a handful of talented young (U21) Canadians who featured in CSL last year to the U23 camp in Florida recently so the CSA is looking at the CSL....no reason why TFC can't look there to fill their Canadian quota and give opportunities to some talented local boys.

From TFC's own Academy team in CSL, I would hazard a guess that maybe only 1 player, possibly two, have a shot at winning the 23rd or 24th roster spot. I would suggest that it only makes sense to do that for those players if they are given the oppprtunity to still play CSL league matches to keep sharp. Sitting on the bench is not a good thing for a young player. They need games and the quality in the CSL is not bad....the good games are very good tests.

James Oliphant
01-26-2010, 05:21 PM
I think the better question is...why does Damien have a swastika-poppy in his avatar?

On topic though, I don't know nearly enough about the CSL to have a valid opinion in this thread.

Oldtimer
01-26-2010, 07:03 PM
I think the better question is...why does Damien have a swastika-poppy in his avatar?

On topic though, I don't know nearly enough about the CSL to have a valid opinion in this thread.

I think that's supposed to be a soccer ball.

TFCRegina
01-26-2010, 07:20 PM
I think the better question is...why does Damien have a swastika-poppy in his avatar?

On topic though, I don't know nearly enough about the CSL to have a valid opinion in this thread.

Swastikas go the other direction actually.

Damien
01-27-2010, 12:10 AM
all HAIL me!!

lol, its a soccer ball in a poppy ya buncha yahoo's!

James Oliphant
01-27-2010, 03:56 AM
Swastikas go the other direction actually.

http://www.showstudio.com/2008/09/01/swastika.png

Damien: You've gotta admit...there's a resemblance. ;)

ExiledRed
01-27-2010, 04:04 AM
http://www.showstudio.com/2008/09/01/swastika.png

Damien: You've gotta admit...there's a resemblance. ;)

I just googled 'swastika poppy' and this thread came up as first result.

I thought they were some nefarious symbol of respect for the nazis who died in ww2, and Damien had unwittingly adopted one for his avatar.

but no.

James Oliphant
01-27-2010, 04:13 AM
I'm huge on Google.

Voodooman
01-27-2010, 06:29 AM
There are many quality players in the CSL, that have no interest of playing for Toronto Fc. The Academy in the CSL, are one of the worst teams in that league, and their was no bright spots on that team from what I saw.

sulfur
01-27-2010, 06:53 AM
As an aside, one CSL player even played in the infamous "everyone's injured or off on international duty" game...

denime
01-27-2010, 06:56 AM
There are many quality players in the CSL, that have no interest of playing for Toronto Fc. The Academy in the CSL, are one of the worst teams in that league, and their was no bright spots on that team from what I saw.


Kids playing in adult league and making a playoffs in their 2nd year "are one of the worst teams in that league". :facepalm:


"and their was no bright spots on that team from what I saw"

How about,
Stop :drinking:before game and you will see that there are some talented KIDS in Academy.


http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/[IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/othr0o.png

london_tfc_fan
01-27-2010, 11:11 AM
I played one yr at London City with a guy named Paul Munster who now plays in Scotland, two guys that went to Sweden, a dude playing in the A-League and Tyler Hemming. What is wrong with the CSL is having so many nationalized teams whose players would rather look at playing overseas vs the MLS. The CSL have many teams who are very good at moving the ball around quite like the USL but there is something missing, maybe its the lack of a true professional environment but im not sure!

Damien
01-27-2010, 11:14 AM
I just googled 'swastika poppy' and this thread came up as first result.

I thought they were some nefarious symbol of respect for the nazis who died in ww2, and Damien had unwittingly adopted one for his avatar.

but no.

Anyone up for a roadtrip to Swastika, Ontario?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1H-ny1S9pRs/ST7E8wvedSI/AAAAAAAAAIM/ql6fORcfbY4/s400/swastika-town_s.jpg

Fort York Redcoat
01-27-2010, 11:38 AM
^ Know a guy from there. Looks like hell on a birth certificate.

Keegan
01-27-2010, 02:13 PM
Of course the CSL has many talented players who will become professional... TFC just needs to find them before overseas or rival teams do.

I wouldn't be surprised to see TFC sign that Matheson and or Lao or even the Canadian u17 goalkeeper. All three played for Canada U17s I believe, I think only Lao really saw a lot of action though and impressed.

deschamp86
01-27-2010, 02:53 PM
Not a great indicator for who we should expect to come up through the ranks, but here are the TFC Academy players that featured for the U17 Canadian team:

MF - Jonathan Lao (594 minutes)
MF - Brennan McNicoll (266 minutes)
FW - Justin Maheu (180 minutes, 1 goal)
GK - Garrett Cyprus (180 minutes)
FW - Allando Matheson (37 minutes)

Jamaicanadian
01-27-2010, 03:09 PM
Allando is a beast...He may go the school route (maybe UCONN) following in the footsteps of one of his idols...OBW!

Shway
01-27-2010, 04:52 PM
TFC academy is a joke, there is so much talent
maybe with preki, who knows we might see some signees

but we already lost the U-17 player of the year to the whitecaps

TFC07
01-27-2010, 05:23 PM
TFC academy is a joke, there is so much talent
maybe with preki, who knows we might see some signees

but we already lost the U-17 player of the year to the whitecaps

True, but TFC academy is still young. Give it sometime!

I don't mind losing our best player to a better academy (Whitecaps academy is the best in Canada...hands down!)

UltraSuperMegaMo
01-27-2010, 06:10 PM
True, but TFC academy is still young. Give it sometime!

I don't mind losing our best player to a better academy (Whitecaps academy is the best in Canada...hands down!)

TFC academy will always lose players as long as it's a purely amateur setup, there's simply no way to stop the players leaving for professional setups like the Whitecaps. The other downside of the system is, in that the academy is setup as a amateur team, no transfer fees for the players we lose.

That said, I think there's two or three players TFC should be looking at, Matheson, Morgan, and Roberts.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-27-2010, 06:32 PM
im sure our set up will change along with the MLS CBA etc this year (that or we will see the White Caps ish change)

UltraSuperMegaMo
01-27-2010, 06:38 PM
Things I've heard and read indicate the Whitecaps will basically have their own rules. What TFC needs, I know this has been beaten to death on this board and others, is a professional (in since that they're paid) reserve / U23 team playing in either the CSL or PDL.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-27-2010, 07:55 PM
i cant see that lasting long (having their own rules thing), especially with how competitive clubs will be in Canada

ag futbol
01-27-2010, 09:56 PM
^ Well in many ways we are in a unique situation. We don't have a high quality scouting-development program for kids 14-19 like the USSF has in Florida. Our footprint in the lower leagues is limited and will be getting smaller once Montreal and Vancouver leave. There's limited opportunities for Canadians to advance through the game and because of the geographic spread of the population other such challenges. I think we can all agree that it's pretty drastic for someone to go from amateur to the roster or even CSL to the roster.

A high quality residency program (like the whitecaps have) would allow more Canadians to be come MLS quality players. Having home grown content is an objective of the league and i think it's reasonable for us to be able to put in some stop-gaps considering the Americans get to rely on big-brother for talent.

I'd say we could ask the CSA to run an academy but i don't think it would have a chance of being filled with anything but the children of the politically connected and ass kissers.

Macksam
01-27-2010, 10:01 PM
Things I've heard and read indicate the Whitecaps will basically have their own rules. What TFC needs, I know this has been beaten to death on this board and others, is a professional (in since that they're paid) reserve / U23 team playing in either the CSL or PDL.
Whitecaps are pushing for all the clubs in MLS to do what they are doing. I'm pretty sure any team will be able to adopt whatever format they are going to bring into the league.

UltraSuperMegaMo
01-27-2010, 10:07 PM
Whitecaps are pushing for all the clubs in MLS to do what they are doing. I'm pretty sure any team will be able to adopt whatever format they are going to bring into the league.

Not according to recent interviews, they'll be only too happy to be an exception to the MLS academy rules.

Macksam
01-27-2010, 10:16 PM
We'll see.

rocker
01-28-2010, 10:22 AM
I doubt there are many CSL players worthy of MLS. Yeah, they look decent because they are playing against players of their own quality. Of course they look decent in that environment.

One of the things ya gotta remember is that the different between greatness and being decent is often not quality but consistency. My brother was a great young soccer player in the late-70s, early 80s in Ontario. He could do brilliant things at times against any competition. But what killed any chance of a pro career was consistency. He couldn't keep it up regularly. We've seen that with TFC players who are gone now: Adam Braz seems to satisfy the Impact because he can be consistent at that level of quality. But in MLS he couldn't. so he's gone.

I hear this all the time about USL players. People say "wow, that guy on Vancouver or Rochester or Montreal looks good.. why don't we sign players from the USL?" But then those guys come to MLS and they look weak. Why? Because in the USL they played against guys of the same quality. People disparage MLS and praise the USL sometimes but there's a gap there between the leagues.

I thought a guy like Antonio Ribeiro looked solid for Montreal but weak for San Jose. I thought Sebiastian LeToux was great in the USL but a borderline MLSer (Seattle let him go to Philly). Marco Velez was a starter for PR but borderline MLSer. If these guys, who have played at higher levels than the CSL, can't cut it, I doubt there's much value is scouting the CSL --- unless you want more cheap, borderline, "project" players. But I think scouting should be dedicated to finding gems, because the borderline players can be found without scouting beyond wikipedia.

And since we have a team in the CSL, I'm sure coaches Jason Bent and Stuart Neely are more than enough to identify any intriguing gems that come up against the CSL TFC team. As well, CSL players who care can easily contact TFC for a tryout. It's not like players have to sit there quietly and wait to be seen. Get an agent and get noticed. That's how it works everywhere.

Macksam
01-28-2010, 10:55 AM
I doubt there are many CSL players worthy of MLS. Yeah, they look decent because they are playing against players of their own quality. Of course they look decent in that environment.

One of the things ya gotta remember is that the different between greatness and being decent is often not quality but consistency. My brother was a great young soccer player in the late-70s, early 80s in Ontario. He could do brilliant things at times against any competition. But what killed any chance of a pro career was consistency. He couldn't keep it up regularly. We've seen that with TFC players who are gone now: Adam Braz seems to satisfy the Impact because he can be consistent at that level of quality. But in MLS he couldn't. so he's gone.

I hear this all the time about USL players. People say "wow, that guy on Vancouver or Rochester or Montreal looks good.. why don't we sign players from the USL?" But then those guys come to MLS and they look weak. Why? Because in the USL they played against guys of the same quality. People disparage MLS and praise the USL sometimes but there's a gap there between the leagues.

I thought a guy like Antonio Ribeiro looked solid for Montreal but weak for San Jose. I thought Sebiastian LeToux was great in the USL but a borderline MLSer (Seattle let him go to Philly). Marco Velez was a starter for PR but borderline MLSer. If these guys, who have played at higher levels than the CSL, can't cut it, I doubt there's much value is scouting the CSL --- unless you want more cheap, borderline, "project" players. But I think scouting should be dedicated to finding gems, because the borderline players can be found without scouting beyond wikipedia.

And since we have a team in the CSL, I'm sure coaches Jason Bent and Stuart Neely are more than enough to identify any intriguing gems that come up against the CSL TFC team. As well, CSL players who care can easily contact TFC for a tryout. It's not like players have to sit there quietly and wait to be seen. Get an agent and get noticed. That's how it works everywhere.
Ribeiro isn't weak at all for San Jose.