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View Full Version : Going to be seeing more of these stories as 1/31 approaches...



ensco
01-21-2010, 02:16 PM
MONTCLAIR, N.J. -- Red Bulls captain and striker Juan Pablo Angel says there is nothing to those rumors enamating out of Argentina that he is interested in playing for his old club, River Plate, or vice versa...

http://www.bigapplesoccer.com/teams/redbulls2.php?article_id=22223

Dozens of players will have options away from MLS if there is a lockout. Some (most? all?) won't be able to return once they go.

The players have a better hand than most people think.

Beach_Red
01-21-2010, 03:00 PM
^ Sure, these players have options.

The question is, how important does the league think these particular players are (especially the internationals) to the success of the league. How easily could they be replaced?

rocker
01-21-2010, 03:44 PM
can players play in other leagues without their international transfer certificate going to the new team?

cuz we've seen with players moving into or out of TFC to foreign leagues, it's always contingent on MLS signing the ITC. Now, naturally if Marvell Wynne decided to play in Argentina or somewhere, he couldn't, because he's still contractually obligated to MLS and MLS holds his rights even globally. So really players can't move around unless they're free agents.

ensco
01-21-2010, 04:57 PM
^It's the difference between a strike and a lockout. MLS needs the players to go out on strike for your scenario to happen (although on bs people are saying there are apparently players who have contracts saying their certificates can't be transferred in the event of a lockout, which in and of itself may be subject to legal challenge).

To be fair, it wouldn't be more than 2-4 guys per team getting new jobs. Most teams in other leagues (I guess excepting Scandinavia and USL/NASL) have their rosters set midseason.

I've never understood the lockout stuff. Why would the owners do that? They want the status quo. But the players may well strike. If they do, they'll almost certainly test the league's antitrust exemption (something which 8 players tried on their own 10 years ago, but which the union itself has never done).

Beach_Red
01-21-2010, 05:25 PM
^ It's going to the Supreme Court for the NFL:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/11/nfl-antitrust-supreme-court_n_418175.html

The arguments are interesting, how can sports teams be seperate businesses when they need one other? It may different for soccer where the tems could arguethey can play in Champions League gmes and so on.

One thing's for sure, the lawyers won't be going on strike or getting locked out - they'll just be getting richer.

rocker
01-21-2010, 05:42 PM
^ It's going to the Supreme Court for the NFL:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/11/nfl-antitrust-supreme-court_n_418175.html

The arguments are interesting, how can sports teams be seperate businesses when they need one other? It may different for soccer where the tems could arguethey can play in Champions League gmes and so on.

One thing's for sure, the lawyers won't be going on strike or getting locked out - they'll just be getting richer.

interesting case.

MLS is slightly different than the others though, since they are indeed a single entity. TFC doesn't "own" a team, they sorta license the franchise. The MLS players fought years ago to get the court to recognize MLS as a cartel but the court ruled that single entity meant MLS was not a collection of individual teams. The other leagues (except the legally exempt MLB) are not structured similarly. This means they have to negotiate with the players to a much higher degree, or else the players will sue using anti-trust laws.

This is why people who suggest MLS should disband single entity miss the point.... It's there for a very good reason -- not to reduce the power of the individual team but to reduce the power of the players.

Beach_Red
01-21-2010, 06:19 PM
^ Yes, that's true.

It looks like the court may be looking at the question of what exactly is a single-entity? When almost everything is set by the league - from the rules of the game to roster size to draft order to stadium specs to ownership structure (the NFL insists on individual owners, no boards of directors like MLSE) to... well, as this case is looking at, who gets to make the hats, then it IS a single-entity whether it calls itself one or not.

At least MLS has the honesty to admit it.

jabbronies
01-21-2010, 06:26 PM
We could see older guys like Angel leaving for sure. They want to play as much as possible before thier playing years run out.

Could we see more young skilled players leaving for smaller Euro clubs as well?

ensco
01-21-2010, 08:30 PM
This "MLS is a single entity" shtick is a complete fraud and a court will invalidate it someday.

Even with the "sharing" of expenses and revenues in MLS, the end result is that the franchise holder makes or loses money mostly based on the performance of its players and marketing efforts, and on the revenues that the franchise generates.

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck....

Tax shelters are being unwound by US courts every day for the same reason.

OneLoveOneEric
01-21-2010, 08:47 PM
Wait til you see how MLSE dicks us if there's a lockout too. They kept my Leafs money for an entire year and credited my account for the following year when the season was cancelled, rather than giving me a refund.

MUFC_Niagara
01-21-2010, 08:49 PM
Wait til you see how MLSE dicks us if there's a lockout too. They kept my Leafs money for an entire year and credited my account for the following year when the season was cancelled, rather than giving me a refund.

OLOE....you pay/paid to see the leafs? Bwahahahaha! j/k...lol.

ag futbol
01-21-2010, 08:55 PM
The paradox to needing your competition to have a business is not unique to sports. There are plenty of other examples of it and none of them are given the benefit of collectively limiting the salaries of their employees. Nor could they ever effectively prevent someone from signing in another workplace because a different company holds their rights. If that ever went to court it would be thrown out so quickly it would make our heads spin.

MLS always wants to tell you they are keeping things in cheque so this league won’t become the NASL. Sure there’s an element of that which is true, but this is basically akin to a guy earning a regular wage eating kraft dinner every night and living under a bridge in fear of blowing his budget.

There is a huge middle ground here that needs to be explored if the quality of play is ever going to take a reasonable step forward. We have no idea what the players are actually asking for at the table, but from what’s coming out in the media, the vast majority of it seems very reasonable. Not once has anybody mentioned the overall level of the salary cap being an issue, which is incredible considering how terribly low it is.

Beach_Red
01-21-2010, 09:15 PM
^ Yes, you're right. That middle ground needs to be explored. And it is incredible that the overall salary cap isn't mentioned as an issue, but raising it would seem inevitable if the lower and mid-level player salaries went up - there'd be no point in raising those unless the top-paid players salaries at least remained the same.

MLS will claim that players are free to sign with another workplace - any other soccer league in the world - even other leagues in North America.

What other businesses need their competition the way sports teams do?

And we should never count on American courts to be consistent or even rule by common sense. Baseball was given complete exemption to anti-trust laws (and used that to keep teams from signing black players -- American citizens -- for years). You can never really know which way a court is going to rule. Anything can happen.