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View Full Version : Did Mo shoot himself in the foot?



jloome
01-18-2010, 12:48 PM
From Ives Galarcep's blog today : ( http://www.soccerbyives.net/ )
INKEDAG- Do you think RBNY should or could have done more to deal with Dallas for Dave van den Bergh?

What happened to Trader Mo? He seemed silent this year.

IVES- Who said the Van Den Bergh to NY deal is dead? From what I have heard, it will take a small allocation to acquire Van Den Bergh, and right now I think New York’s new head coach is still trying to sort out what is on the roster and what the team’s remaining needs are. A Van Den Bergh deal could very well still happen.

As for Mo Johnston, the word I get is that he made several big offers but teams weren’t listening. Could it have been backlash for last year, when Johnston talked trades with everyone but made deals with nobody? It’s very possible.
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Opinions sought! Or is this just the nature of the MLS biz that one year you're the skunker and the next year the skunkee ?

Damien
01-18-2010, 12:52 PM
It's all hindsight anyway...

Plus you can't hold high ransoms for draft picks (and incoming US national players <McBride>) and not expect a backlash from other GM's.

TFC Tifoso
01-18-2010, 01:00 PM
if he did then he messed up......











he should've aimed higher......

Nodoubtguy
01-18-2010, 01:01 PM
I think that if any team was offered a trade they couldn't refuse....it would have happened.

Roogsy
01-18-2010, 01:46 PM
We don't have much to trade with at the moment anyways so it's probably the fact that his offers weren't very interesting.

Don Julio
01-18-2010, 01:46 PM
Exactly, people can hold grudges but if there was a deal that they felt could make their team better they would obviously take it.

Ives is a smart man, he knows that mentioning a speculative bit of non-news about TFC will drive traffic to his site.

rocker
01-18-2010, 01:47 PM
not trading can be a good thing sometimes

Parkdale
01-18-2010, 01:47 PM
I think that it's unfair that he gets the 11:35 timeslot back when there just wasn't time for his replacement to get into a groove.

wait.... what?

Oldtimer
01-18-2010, 01:50 PM
Mo did exactly what he was supposed to do, last year.

I have no sympathy for other team's sour grapes. Mo got us 3 very good draft picks. He also wasn't fooling the other GMs. He came close to dealing at least one of the picks last year.

Mo did very well for having the 24th pick this season, too.

The problem is more with expectations of Mo, not with his drafting. He's got such a reputation now. Everyone expects Mo to trade trash for gold. Sometimes you have to trade gold to get silver, and the deal isn't worth it.

Roogsy
01-18-2010, 01:55 PM
I think that it's unfair that he gets the 11:35 timeslot back when there just wasn't time for his replacement to get into a groove.

wait.... what?


We talkin'bout Mojo not Coco Mofo...

Ossington Mental Youth
01-18-2010, 02:00 PM
meh im not really worried, once again too much stock put into the draft

Detroit_TFC
01-18-2010, 02:07 PM
Mo wasn't holding too many cards this year and the allocation money is gone so not surprising he couldn't leverage anything.

Next year will be the tricky year (double expansion draft, Van trying to grab up Cdn talent).

Stouffville_RPB
01-18-2010, 02:34 PM
Agreeing with most of the sentiment here. Sometimes not making a deal is the right deal.

If Mo was putting out what he feels were legitimate offers and no one was biting or people wanted to much than it is better to not make the trade.

Don't trade for trade sake.

Chewy Unikronik
01-18-2010, 02:52 PM
Any GM that holds a grudge at the expense of making his team better is a foolio.

Damien
01-18-2010, 02:59 PM
We got a player we can use as a spare part for 6 years without counting against the cap (gen adidas)... and if we sell him to europe then free money.

ensco
01-18-2010, 03:08 PM
I'd bet Mo's style is to be like the guy who bids 50% of the asking price on every house in the neighbourhood, hoping someone will bite.

It works sometimes, but people who do that are never the first call for someone who is actually ready to deal.

Roogsy
01-18-2010, 03:25 PM
I'd bet Mo's style is to be like the guy who bids 50% of the asking price on every house in the neighbourhood, hoping someone will bite.

It works sometimes, but people who do that are never the first call for someone who is actually ready to deal.

I agree 100%.

I would say that Mo's trading style is a good strategy for those occasional deals where he makes off like a bandit. But for traditional trading between teams, I would actually say Mo (and TFC by extension) are at a disadvantage and likely miss out on opportunities.

deltox
01-18-2010, 03:36 PM
again...he would be Gen Adidas for the whole 6 yrs. he could graduate from the program after the first yr or 2. ive never heard of a player being Gen adidas for more than 3 yrs

ManUtd4ever
01-18-2010, 03:39 PM
I'm not sure what to make of this...On one hand, he has fleeced a couple of GM's with his shrewd negotiating tactics but inevitably that reputation comes back to bite you in the ass...

ua-kozak_TFC
01-18-2010, 05:21 PM
not trading can be a good thing sometimes
LOL well its been 3 years of no trading before the season starts. I think he should try something else...because i don't think it's working...

ua-kozak_TFC
01-18-2010, 05:25 PM
I'm not sure what to make of this...On one hand, he has fleeced a couple of GM's with his shrewd negotiating tactics but inevitably that reputation comes back to bite you in the ass...
fleeced a COUPLE?? PLEASE enlighten me...
Technically we could have had Mc Bride and we got Barret.. is that the steal you are talking about??
Or is it The Garcia trade from SJ for a 3rd draft pick... that everybody was raving last season as a steal of the season. I would rather have a 3rd draft pick because atleast there is potential Garcia blows in 3 dimensions and is a dead end...

wzhxvy
01-18-2010, 05:36 PM
I think the lack of progress in making the team better this offseason is what concerns me. We still have Garcia and our missing some key players in the back...pretty concenred.

ag futbol
01-18-2010, 06:17 PM
In this case, what do we have as REALISTIC trade bait?

Most likely: Frei + Cronin.
What everybody says, but won't get us much: Wynne, Robinson (etc...).

The trade avenues aren't looking very hot right now. It comes down to getting the signings right or Mo might as well book his plane ticket home.

Beach_Red
01-18-2010, 06:37 PM
Technically we could have had Mc Bride and we got Barret.. is that the steal you are talking about??




There was no way McBride was coming to Toronto. Of course that still doesn't make signing Barrett a good move.

As Oldtimer points out in the other thread, with the salary cap no team can offer much more money so other factors come into play - we saw quite a few players choose to not come to Toronto, or come here and stay for only a very short time (like Robert and Tebily).

Let's hope the grass helps and maybe Preki will help, too. But we're at the end of the road for excuses.

ManUtd4ever
01-18-2010, 06:49 PM
fleeced a COUPLE?? PLEASE enlighten me...
Technically we could have had Mc Bride and we got Barret.. is that the steal you are talking about??
Or is it The Garcia trade from SJ for a 3rd draft pick... that everybody was raving last season as a steal of the season. I would rather have a 3rd draft pick because atleast there is potential Garcia blows in 3 dimensions and is a dead end...

I never stated that he had a perfect track record, I was referring to his NEGOTIATING TACTICS which have affected his reputation amongst other general managers which is the premise of this thread. In the process, some of his moves have benefited TFC and some haven't. The acquisitions of Wynne, Ibrahim, and DeRo to name a few, are trades that have been one sided in favour of TFC IMO...

ag futbol
01-18-2010, 06:50 PM
There was no way McBride was coming to Toronto. Of course that still doesn't make signing Barrett a good move.

As Oldtimer points out in the other thread, with the salary cap no team can offer much more money so other factors come into play - we saw quite a few players choose to not come to Toronto, or come here and stay for only a very short time (like Robert and Tebily).

Let's hope the grass helps and maybe Preki will help, too. But we're at the end of the road for excuses.
I think we were end of that road a long time ago. We just had an ever expanding list excuses.

- At the point we bought it, we were the only team in the league with pro-zone
- Along with DCU we were the only team to have dedicated scout
- We actually have home support
- We’ve spent money on a DP (half the teams in the league still don’t have one)

Asides from that I never really bought into the turf or “it’s Canada” being real excuses as to why we couldn’t get players in Toronto.

ag futbol
01-18-2010, 07:01 PM
I never stated that he had a perfect track record, I was referring to his NEGOTIATING TACTICS which have reflected his reputation amongst other general managers which is the premise of this thread. In the process, some of his moves have benefited TFC and some haven't. The acquisitions of Wynne, Ibrahim, and DeRo to name a few, are trades that have been one sided in favour of TFC IMO...
But these ignore the structure of the league and the nature of the deals. There were pretty much all salary dumps. These teams aren't getting ripped off, they know exactly what they are doing. It's an incomplete analysis just to look at the trade because it doesn't show you what the other team was able to do with the cap space.

That's like saying we cut Danny Dichio just because. Clearly it was done to make room for JDG, which in the totality of the picture was a good move.

ensco
01-18-2010, 07:19 PM
That's like saying we cut Danny Dichio just because. Clearly it was done to make room for JDG, which in the totality of the picture was a good move.

I think you're in a very small minority there. If somebody needed to go to make room for JDG, it sure as hell should not have been Dichio.

ag futbol
01-18-2010, 07:34 PM
^ From a viewpoint of hurting team morale, I'd agree. The roster changes definitely take their tole, guys wonder if they could be next.

But, in terms of switching player A for player B, I'd stick to my original point.

Beach_Red
01-18-2010, 08:07 PM
^ From a viewpoint of hurting team morale, I'd agree. The roster changes definitely take their tole, guys wonder if they could be next.

But, in terms of switching player A for player B, I'd stick to my original point.


It's not necessarily bad that guys wonder if they could be next. Still, at some point Danny Dichio was going to retire. He wasn't playing much, he'd had concussions, he's got small kids - all in all his moving into the front office wasn't a bad move.

But look, even Dichio didn't come to North America to come to Toronto, he was on his way to Chicago, remember. The turf, the ownership (clearly Seattle's ownership is far more dedicated to soccer), not the USA (maybe that's a better way to put it than saying Toronto or Canada - it's been a factor for the Jays and Raptors and it was always a big factor for the Expos, so it can be overplayed, maybe, but it can't be denied) all play a part.

We got a DP with what, six games left in the season last year? That's not really, "a long time ago," is it? Certainly at the time the complaint was that it took far too long to happen. We can't really have it both ways.

But we can finally put to rest all the talk about expansion and development and whatever else - the time is now.

CretanBull
01-18-2010, 08:40 PM
Let me know when he shoots himself in the head :D

I kid, obviously, but couldn't resist!

FluSH
01-18-2010, 08:48 PM
From Ives Galarcep's blog today : ( http://www.soccerbyives.net/ )
INKEDAG- Do you think RBNY should or could have done more to deal with Dallas for Dave van den Bergh?

What happened to Trader Mo? He seemed silent this year.

IVES- Who said the Van Den Bergh to NY deal is dead? From what I have heard, it will take a small allocation to acquire Van Den Bergh, and right now I think New York’s new head coach is still trying to sort out what is on the roster and what the team’s remaining needs are. A Van Den Bergh deal could very well still happen.

As for Mo Johnston, the word I get is that he made several big offers but teams weren’t listening. Could it have been backlash for last year, when Johnston talked trades with everyone but made deals with nobody? It’s very possible.
----------

Opinions sought! Or is this just the nature of the MLS biz that one year you're the skunker and the next year the skunkee ?


I may not have faith with Mo in certain aspects of running this team, however I do have Faith in Trader Mo.

He didn't get that nickname for just sitting pretty... some amazing stunt will be pulled out of somewhere... I know so.

ExiledRed
01-18-2010, 08:48 PM
I think you're in a very small minority there. If somebody needed to go to make room for JDG, it sure as hell should not have been Dichio.

No, and every time I see Barrett on the pitch, I think of this truth.

ManUtd4ever
01-18-2010, 09:23 PM
But these ignore the structure of the league and the nature of the deals. There were pretty much all salary dumps. These teams aren't getting ripped off, they know exactly what they are doing. It's an incomplete analysis just to look at the trade because it doesn't show you what the other team was able to do with the cap space.

That's like saying we cut Danny Dichio just because. Clearly it was done to make room for JDG, which in the totality of the picture was a good move.

I understand your point but the bottom line in analyzing the major beneficiary of a transaction is usually the team that acquired the best talent even if the other team's willingness to depart with that talent is based on economic factors...

ag futbol
01-18-2010, 11:14 PM
But look, even Dichio didn't come to North America to come to Toronto, he was on his way to Chicago, remember. The turf, the ownership (clearly Seattle's ownership is far more dedicated to soccer), not the USA (maybe that's a better way to put it than saying Toronto or Canada - it's been a factor for the Jays and Raptors and it was always a big factor for the Expos, so it can be overplayed, maybe, but it can't be denied) all play a part.

I will concede these things do sometimes pose problems, but not ones that shouldn't be overcome with a bit of work. There have been very competitive teams in MLS with turf fields and cities far less desirable than Toronto to live. The issue i have is that each one of these was presented as "oh, well i can't move forward without this". I think if any other market besides ours would have been fed that pile of crap Johnston would be shipped out of town and probably working as the third assistant for East Stirlingshire by now.


I understand your point but the bottom line in analyzing the major beneficiary of a transaction is usually the team that acquired the best talent even if the other team's willingness to depart with that talent is based on economic factors...
We'd have to agree to disgree on this. Look no further than the transfer market. Or the Garcia trade.

Beach_Red
01-19-2010, 08:30 AM
The issue i have is that each one of these was presented as "oh, well i can't move forward without this". I think if any other market besides ours would have been fed that pile of crap Johnston would be shipped out of town and probably working as the third assistant for East Stirlingshire by now.




Yes, I suppose we have here the perfect ownership for this market. Not many other markets would put up with almost all their major sports teams owned by the same ineffective company.

Still, a few of the things that were problems like the turf have been eliminated.

Mark in Ottawa
01-19-2010, 09:23 AM
I may not have faith with Mo in certain aspects of running this team, however I do have Faith in Trader Mo.

He didn't get that nickname for just sitting pretty... some amazing stunt will be pulled out of somewhere... I know so.
I tend to agree. I just can't believe that the team on paper today will be the final roster come season opener.

Hey Flush... I like your signature block but you better talk to Gobi and get a Red Eye Patch for your Pirate Skull :D
(I always did like that T-shirt design she came up with).

FluSH
01-19-2010, 01:54 PM
I tend to agree. I just can't believe that the team on paper today will be the final roster come season opener.

Hey Flush... I like your signature block but you better talk to Gobi and get a Red Eye Patch for your Pirate Skull :D
(I always did like that T-shirt design she came up with).

Thanks man

Yeah I have zero skills at design... so I quickly made this signature.... I'm planning on getting a couple of Pirate Flags for the New England Roadtrip... We are going to loot and pillage the city!!!! :D