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ua-kozak_TFC
01-16-2010, 11:10 PM
Philly seem to be doing their homework and not procrastinating. Very impressive squad they are arming down there. We haven;t made a move yet as per usual. Although I think preki itself will improove the squad; i think he knows what he is doing something that our last 3 coaches didn't... That said, i think there are a number of position to are screaming for improvement. Most notably our defence and our lateral midfielders. camp starting soon i hope by then those positions are taken care of so leaves enough time to gel the team.

My questions are the following.
1)Do you think that philly is doing a better job at arming a squad than us in year 1 (thus far)?
2)Do you think Philly will repeat what seattle has done last year?
3)Will it affect your present idea of TFCs success/failure in the last 3 years if they do?

JDG
01-16-2010, 11:17 PM
Philly as the distinct benefit of the growing respect for the league. I'm not about to say that we were the catalyst, but there has been a rapid growth in the three years since TFC joined MLS. This makes it easier to lure back successful Americans playing abroad.
Philly also is not hamstrung by being required to choose Canadian talent.
Philly has the benefit of having TFC's track record, and Seattle's to learn from.
With that, I'm not the least bit suprised with how good they look so soon.

Mo likes to keep things quiet, and doesn't seem to care how that affects our mood in the off season - nor should he.
The silence does not mean nothing will happen.

Roogsy
01-16-2010, 11:20 PM
The answer from me has been consistent. Each team that comes into the league and shows us up shows that yes, we have been far too patient with Mo. If Philly comes in and makes the playoffs in their first year, I'd say it seals the case against Mo that TFC has severely underperformed.

ag futbol
01-17-2010, 12:31 AM
1) Definitely. We were a very bad side in year one, in multiple ways. There was so much crap I don’t even know where to start.
2) I don’t think so. I’m not sold on building through the draft, the work on the backline looks promising but nothing is set in stone yet. At this point Seattle had a DP, a top South American prospect, and complementary stud defender. It’s going to be very hard for any team to top what they did in year one.
3) No I don’t think so. I think we all could have put year one in the past if things went a little more smoothly in 2-3. I’m going to compare TFC to established teams in the league at this point, the “we’re new” excuse is history.

The meat of the roster still has to be filled. With what they have now, Union is a bottom half team.

jazzy
01-17-2010, 12:47 AM
Philly seem to be doing their homework and not procrastinating. Very impressive squad they are arming down there. We haven;t made a move yet as per usual. Although I think preki itself will improove the squad; i think he knows what he is doing something that our last 3 coaches didn't... That said, i think there are a number of position to are screaming for improvement. Most notably our defence and our lateral midfielders. camp starting soon i hope by then those positions are taken care of so leaves enough time to gel the team.

My questions are the following.
1)Do you think that philly is doing a better job at arming a squad than us in year 1 (thus far)?
2)Do you think Philly will repeat what seattle has done last year?
3)Will it affect your present idea of TFCs success/failure in the last 3 years if they do?

1.Yes
2.Yes
3.Yes

Look out for this team in 2 to 3 years......oh and guess who are the horndogs who play their 1rst home game against a brand new team, looking to pull out all the stops with nothing to lose...but we WILL be under quite a bit of pressure, I believe....Smells like last year with Seattle

Dirk Diggler
01-17-2010, 01:16 AM
The answer from me has been consistent. Each team that comes into the league and shows us up shows that yes, we have been far too patient with Mo. If Philly comes in and makes the playoffs in their first year, I'd say it seals the case against Mo that TFC has severely underperformed.

To be honest, if Philly makes the playoffs but TFC makes it as well, I'd be willing to forget about the past 3 years and just be happy for the future. However, if Philly makes it and we don't, I would be absolutly livid. First the Sounders and then the Union ... that would be the ultimate slap in the face. The only thing left then would be for San Jose to make the playoffs before us.

Shakes McQueen
01-17-2010, 01:28 AM
I agree with JDG that Seattle and Philly have both benefitted immensely from being able to learn from the experiences of the other expansion teams in recent years.

- Scott

Keystone FC
01-17-2010, 05:15 AM
I don't think we can compare Philly with Seattle but we will have to wait to see how they compare to TFC.
Seattle was already established through the USL system and had a long history. They had a stadium in place and a solid fanbase before coming into MLS. Players and coaches (for the most part) were already in place so only the drafted players had to be brought up to speed.
Philly is brand new and even though they have the a passionate supporters group they still have to market the club to the rest of the city.
Also, they have brand new everything team wise and a young squad (so far) that will take some time to get to know each others moves and thoughts on the pitch. I think Philly will be alot like TFC in it's 2nd season given the reasons a few before me have stated but I don't see them being another Seattle...or Chicago for that matter.

Mikey
01-17-2010, 08:45 AM
I have no faith in Mo whatsoever. Once Vancouver and Montreal join MLS and consistently start outperforming TFC from day one, I think we might finally get rid of him. Until then, I think we're stuck with him.

Im expecting Philli to come into the league guns blazing, not with some shitty "5 year plan"

Cashcleaner
01-17-2010, 09:08 AM
I have no faith in Mo whatsoever. Once Vancouver and Montreal join MLS and consistently start outperforming TFC from day one, I think we might finally get rid of him. Until then, I think we're stuck with him.

I'm expecting Phillie to come into the league guns blazing, not with some shitty "5 year plan"

As optimistic as I'm trying to be, I believe this is a very likely scenario.

ua-kozak_TFC
01-17-2010, 10:03 AM
As optimistic as I'm trying to be, I believe this is a very likely scenario.
I agree... Lets hold out and see what happens. BUt it all points in that direction because we have had nothing up until now that makes think other wise.

I think what we need to realize that slightly improving as a team each year counts little if the league improves too. Plus there is now more and more team and next year will be even worse. A lot of teams are stepping up bringing very good international players and DPs, plus is just a numbers game with philly now we have an extra team we have to beat to get to play offs.. which from what isee will not be a push over. Plus i wouldn;t be surprised if they sign a DP before the season starts...

SoccMan
01-17-2010, 10:15 AM
We need positions filled soon, and we all know where we are lacking on the field,however, it's almost training camp and surprise surprise these positions are still to be filled, every year we seem to be in the same position at this same time of year where key positions are still empty of capable players going into training camp. On paper right now we have a worse team than the one that ended the season. Don't you think that it would be to a teams advantage to go into training camp with most of your team there, rather than playing regular season games with positions still to be filled. We go through the same scenario every season about this time of year and where does it get us? I think that this season might not be much different than the previous three, the only difference I think will be at season ticket renewal time in the Fall where if this team has another crappy season they might aswell rename BMO Field Crew Stadium in 2011, because that's what the stands will look like on game days, empty like Crew Stadium!

Pookie
01-17-2010, 10:40 AM
My questions are the following.
1)Do you think that philly is doing a better job at arming a squad than us in year 1 (thus far)?

Not sure I understand the question. Better than we did in year 1 or better than we are doing in this offseason?

If you are comparing year 1's, hard to judge really when we don't know the outcome of Philly's first season. Everything can look pretty on paper, see Maple Leafs, Toronto
.

For reasons JDG highlighted, building a team might be easier now given the growing hype around the league as a viable option.

If you are comparing their offseason in year 1 vs our current one... I would presume they would be more active as they are building a new team whereas we have contracts. Shedding some of those and adding a new coach are still important moves.

Beach_Red
01-17-2010, 10:46 AM
I think what we need to realize that slightly improving as a team each year counts little if the league improves too...


Yes, this is true. It's disappointing, but not surprising.

Look, MLSE pretty much had this team dropped in their laps. The attitude was probably, "Let's squeeze as much money out of this as we can before yet another soccer league folds in North America." (and, sadly, if there's a strike or a lockout they could very well be right).

But Philly and Seattle ownerships really wanted a soccer team, they pursued them and spent huge amounts of money to get into this league, so of course they have a different approach.

We're lucky we got the team when we did because there isn't a single ownership group in this city that would step up with $30-40 million for a team.

Nuvinho
01-17-2010, 11:48 AM
Both Seattle and Philly also have a bigger pool of talent to pick from. I am sure if the roster restrictions in the 1st year had something to do with who we picked, drafted, etc.

Redcoe15
01-17-2010, 01:23 PM
Philadelphia seems to be looking to copy Seattle's success from last year. Whether they succeed this year is anybody's guess.

But, I'll tell you this. If Philly makes the playoffs this year and TFC doesn't,
THERE WILL BE HELL TO PAY!!! :mad5:

rocker
01-17-2010, 03:30 PM
How come nobody ever talks about San Jose?

Of the three expansion teams since 2007 (TFC>SJ>SEA) Seattle has been the best, then TFC, then San Jose.

San Jose actually got worse in their second year (TFC got better from year 1 to 2).

Philly hasn't played a game yet.

ua-kozak_TFC
01-18-2010, 09:31 AM
How come nobody ever talks about San Jose?

Of the three expansion teams since 2007 (TFC>SJ>SEA) Seattle has been the best, then TFC, then San Jose.

San Jose actually got worse in their second year (TFC got better from year 1 to 2).

Philly hasn't played a game yet.
the difference is FANS!!!! SanJose is still a shaky franchize i am not really sure why they came back there anyways... The kind of fans you want( long term and somewhat soccer knowledgable) you can;t attract by just buying a beckham... those fans willl be with you from day 1 ( like us and seatle..) So i think Sanjose have bigger problems and a big investment is not very justified i don;t think. plus their first year i think they finished on top of us didn;t they??
ON the other hand we... mave been making millions of dollars and fattenning mlse's pockets since day one the least we could ask for is some effort to make a good team BEFORE the season starts... and NOT during the season when SHIT HITS the fan...

spark
01-18-2010, 12:08 PM
My questions are the following.
1)Do you think that philly is doing a better job at arming a squad than us in year 1 (thus far)?
2)Do you think Philly will repeat what seattle has done last year?
3)Will it affect your present idea of TFCs success/failure in the last 3 years if they do?

I would say yes (To the first two). There have been some posts about "Toronto setting the template/bar". I think Toronto supporters set the bar, but not the organization. MLSE don't have a winning mentality. They get Mo on the cheap and use him for double-duties in the first season. What does Seattle do? They get the best coach in the league, if not in N. America. Philly has made some nice moves and we will see that the players they have brought in will be with the team for the forseeable future. TFC? We have 2 players from season 1? That is not good planning or evidence of any plan in place IMO. Everything here still seems very trial and error.

gtaguy
01-18-2010, 12:23 PM
Philly seem to be doing their homework and not procrastinating. Very impressive squad they are arming down there. We haven;t made a move yet as per usual. Although I think preki itself will improove the squad; i think he knows what he is doing something that our last 3 coaches didn't... That said, i think there are a number of position to are screaming for improvement. Most notably our defence and our lateral midfielders. camp starting soon i hope by then those positions are taken care of so leaves enough time to gel the team.

My questions are the following.
1)Do you think that philly is doing a better job at arming a squad than us in year 1 (thus far)?
2)Do you think Philly will repeat what seattle has done last year?
3)Will it affect your present idea of TFCs success/failure in the last 3 years if they do?



1st question yes they seem to be .. But you gotta expect this .To imitate is to flatter so yup they are doing this right. Main core of the team to be determined still

2nd question .. I think Philadelphia has a good chance to match Seattle. Philies front office seem to be doing anything possible to make that happen..

3rd question. Not reaching the playoffs will be an embarrassment to this club :picard:. Also If the head to head games we play against philedelphia are won by them I consider this a failure of huge proportions.. :picard:

jloome
01-18-2010, 12:32 PM
I would say yes (To the first two). There have been some posts about "Toronto setting the template/bar". I think Toronto supporters set the bar, but not the organization. MLSE don't have a winning mentality. They get Mo on the cheap and use him for double-duties in the first season. What does Seattle do? They get the best coach in the league, if not in N. America. Philly has made some nice moves and we will see that the players they have brought in will be with the team for the forseeable future. TFC? We have 2 players from season 1? That is not good planning or evidence of any plan in place IMO. Everything here still seems very trial and error.

As loathe as I ever am to state it, MLSE's first responsibility are to its owners and shareholders, and they're making out like bandits.

AS far as the club, while they may be conservative, I see no evidence of stupidity. If we miss the playoffs for again, Mo's toast.

Not that I'd worry about him. His reputation for grabbing young talent will make him a very marketable commodity if it comes to that.

Oldtimer
01-18-2010, 01:55 PM
How come nobody ever talks about San Jose?

Of the three expansion teams since 2007 (TFC>SJ>SEA) Seattle has been the best, then TFC, then San Jose.

San Jose actually got worse in their second year (TFC got better from year 1 to 2).

Philly hasn't played a game yet.

QFT.

San Jose in their second year was one of the worst MLS squads of all time.

Roogsy
01-18-2010, 01:57 PM
QFT.

San Jose in their second year was one of the worst MLS squads of all time.


And that is what we should be aspiring to? I don't think anyone forgets about San Jose, but they aren't even in the same league as we are with the support and money.

There is no way TFC should be on the same level as San Jose and if we are, we are doing something wrong.

Dirk Diggler
01-18-2010, 04:06 PM
Instead of saying "why not mention San Jose?", the question should be why mention them? That is like an NFL fan saying "Our team sucks but you guys are forgetting to mention the Lions".

ManUtd4ever
01-18-2010, 04:13 PM
Due to the fanbase and revenue TFC has generated since their inception, I definitely feel that we should aspire to reach greater heights than San Jose. I also feel that comparisons to Seattle are somewhat unfair given the stability of that franchise prior to joining MLS. I think the best gauge will be Philadelphia and I'm betting that the Union will be more competitive next season than TFC was in 2007. That being said, TFC has improved gradually over 3 years and if that pattern continues the Reds should be making an appearance in the post season in 2010....

Roogsy
01-18-2010, 04:14 PM
Instead of saying "why not mention San Jose?", the question should be why mention them? That is like an NFL fan saying "Our team sucks but you guys are forgetting to mention the Lions".


QFT...

Oldtimer
01-18-2010, 04:40 PM
And that is what we should be aspiring to? I don't think anyone forgets about San Jose, but they aren't even in the same league as we are with the support and money.

There is no way TFC should be on the same level as San Jose and if we are, we are doing something wrong.

In a parity league, everyone is at the same level.

Roogsy
01-18-2010, 04:43 PM
Only in some respects OT. Parity means the league has mechanisms in place to mitigate certain factors that would create an advantage, such as population size, ownership money etc.

Parity doesn't mean every team is at the exact same level as the other in all respects.

Oldtimer
01-18-2010, 06:28 PM
Only in some respects OT. Parity means the league has mechanisms in place to mitigate certain factors that would create an advantage, such as population size, ownership money etc.

Parity doesn't mean every team is at the exact same level as the other in all respects.

Yes, agreed, but in the most important aspect (according to "Soccernomics") which is player salaries, A KC is the same as a Toronto.