How come we don't get any details of TFC scouting missions?

[anto7]

We seldom here any news about what TFC is up to regarding scouting missions . Not sure why this is but it would be nice to know what is going on regarding attempts to bring in new talent. I was reading the article below this morning and Dallas are very up front in what they are doing, they do not promise anything but they do give details of where they have been looking.
Anyone have an opinion on this?

"We've received some very, very good, interesting people. So we're in the process still of evaluating and hope that we can go through the process and have somebody on board with us in the near future," Hyndman said. "... We've got a lot of look on this, considering we don't have anybody named. At the same time, the position is really designed a lot to help me in player identification, so somebody who has been around and has got a little experience, who understands the college game, understands the level that we're looking at for MLS players, international contacts and realizing no one person is going to have all of those." Like every other coaching staff in MLS, Hyndman and his staff have spent much of the offseason looking at players. The head coach went to Ghana in late November, top assistant John Ellinger ventured to Germany and goalkeeping coach Drew Keeshan returned from a junket to England just before the end of 2009.

"There was a player that we had brought over during the year," Hyndman said of Keeshan's trip. "We went over and saw him again. We had continued to make contact. At the same time, it was a wonderful opportunity for Drew Keeshan to shadow a coach. It was a learning opportunity for him to be with some of the better clubs like an Everton and so forth to see what they're doing to bring back some ideas and make him a better coach."

The FCD coach recounted his own travels so far this offseason.

"I'm the type of person who just doesn't sit around. I went to Ghana and spent eight days there," Hyndman said. "Once I got back, two days later, I was at the College Cup. I got back and the next day, I was in LA looking at junior college players who will slip through the draft because they're junior college players who didn't have a chance to go to a four-year school. We saw some players that we liked and they're on our Discovery List. They might be a pleasant surprise. The only thing I know about the offseason is that we haven't been playing games. I haven't looked at this as an offseason."

Once FCD begins preseason practice, he expects a number of the players he and his staff have seen to be front and center for trials.

"I'm thinking maybe eight," Hyndman said. "That's a pretty good number of players that we've seen, we've identified and then we want to see them now a little bit closer. I'm very excited about some of the people we've identified and things we've done in this offseason for the future. I know I was excited last year because I thought it was an improvement in the offseason. I was on the job for four or five months and then, thought we made an improvement. I think this year, we're making another improvement coming off of a season where at the end, we were playing some of the best soccer in the league."

Steve Hunt is a contributor to MLSnet.com

[TFC FORZA RPB]

We do get info on their scouting missions, normally it is once they arrive home, we find out what they have done, where they have gone, who they were looking at. Normally it is posted on the TFC website, or through transactions, or reporters covering the stories.

Personally i feel as though we have more then enough info, and believe the last thing that we need, is a video camera on Mo, or Preki, 24/7.

Just watch the forums, their is always talk about who is availible in the draft, as well who they were looking at while scouting, who they have brought home to train, and who our fellow RPB's petition do join the club

[Parkdale]

well... scouts play their cards close to their chest.

If they find some wunderkid, but can't get him on the team, they would
be out of their minds to announce the kid so others can take a crack at him.

It's kind of like the CIA and the FBI -- you only hear about their mistakes, never their successes.
Just here we only hear about the one or two big options, and not the dozens (??) of moderate ones.

that or the TFC scouting program is just a front to get Mo and his buddies on a winter vacation.

[billyfly]

Cell phone reception in Brazil isn't that good.

[anto7]

well... scouts play their cards close to their chest.

If they find some wunderkid, but can't get him on the team, they would
be out of their minds to announce the kid so others can take a crack at him.

It's kind of like the CIA and the FBI -- you only hear about their mistakes, never their successes.
Just here we only hear about the one or two big options, and not the dozens (??) of moderate ones.

that or the TFC scouting program is just a front to get Mo and his buddies on a winter vacation.
I was not suggesting that they name players, I understand that is not a good idea. But it would be nice to know if they are scouting particular regions or countries.
Yes we all know about the combine but every team takes part in that so no surprise there. We have just got rid of 3 players so assume we will be filling their spots. Would be nice to have a general idea of what Preki and Mo's plans are for this.

[anto7]

We do get info on their scouting missions, normally it is once they arrive home, we find out what they have done, where they have gone, who they were looking at. Normally it is posted on the TFC website, or through transactions, or reporters covering the stories.

Personally i feel as though we have more then enough info, and believe the last thing that we need, is a video camera on Mo, or Preki, 24/7.

Just watch the forums, their is always talk about who is availible in the draft, as well who they were looking at while scouting, who they have brought home to train, and who our fellow RPB's petition do join the club
I do not recall reading any details of scouting missions in the past. Most of our info is leaked or we see pictures of unknown faces at practise and then all speculate who it may be. As I said in my previous reply, I do not expect names of players, but a general idea of what their overall plans are might be nice. This is the off-season where the vast majority of activity takes place so surely they have a specific plan that is being followed that includes much more than the combine/draft

[billyfly]

? Mo's comments about going to Brazil are legend.

[Lucky Strike]

I do not recall reading any details of scouting missions in the past. Most of our info is leaked or we see pictures of unknown faces at practise and then all speculate who it may be. As I said in my previous reply, I do not expect names of players, but a general idea of what their overall plans are might be nice. This is the off-season where the vast majority of activity takes place so surely they have a specific plan that is being followed that includes much more than the combine/draft

Yeah, it'd be nice but I can live with little or no information about scouting trips. The less information you disclose about anything, the better. Even saying, "we're scouting in Africa" can be detrimental if someone else gets that idea which they hadn't considered or planned for yet.

But I suspect the REAL reason why we haven't heard anything is that Mo hasn't travelled to enough countries yet to deliver a line like: "We've been looking at a few guys, a Brazilian, a Portuguese and a Gambian, and we'll have them in in the next few days and see what they can do up close." :D

[Lucky Strike]

? Mo's comments about going to Brazil are legend.

AH! You beat me to it! :D

[trane]

I suspect that is not much to write about.

[FluSH]

I don't think they allow media in some of the finer establishements in Brazil. Certainly not cameras. =P

[Oldtimer]

Dallas is writing about their scouting probably because their fans are upset why their team hasn't brought in fresh blood (i.e. "don't be mad, we ARE looking").

TFC fans are in a different situation, we're upset about different things, and no-one has any doubt about "Trader Mo" being able to bring in fresh blood. Our problem is that a team of midfielders can't win games, particularly if the few strikers are under-performing.

[Boris]

you cant give away where you are going to everyone. If you do then another team can land a discovery claim on certain players.

Its about playing your cards right in the MLS

[mlsintoronto]

? Mo's comments about going to Brazil are legend.

Yes - it is always so well received here when Toronto FC talks about scouting missions!

We should do more. And it should involve me going to Spain. In March. Near the coast. For a week. For scouting. With my wife. Morgan Fairchild.
:D

[Parkdale]

We should do more. And it should involve me going to Spain. In March. Near the coast. For a week. For scouting. With my wife. Morgan Fairchild.
:D


I heard that trip was called off because of someone's fear of having a full body X-ray scan at the airport.

[boomcha]

? Mo's comments about going to Brazil are legend.

Any links to these? I forget what was said now.

[ginkster88]

Any links to these? I forget what was said now.

After season 1: "I'm going to Brazil."

After season 2: "I'm going to Brazil."

After season 3?

[trane]

^ I have been to Brazil.

[Section 117]

Scouting trips???? Mo thought it was just to sample the local booze....

[rocker]

it's not like Dallas wrote that article. Some journalist did. So the answer is to get a journalist covering TFC to write about scouting missions. I don't think it's up to the team to say "hey guys, here's this great talent we're looking at in Ghana... don't tell NYRB!!!"

[Section 117]

I know some of the staff went to watch the NCAA final four of soccer and then they are going to combine. Besides that I am not sure they really do any scouting

[FluSH]

After season 1: "I'm going to Brazil."

After season 2: "I'm going to Brazil."

After season 3?


I need a job as a Futbol Scout... this is the only way my wife will let me go to Brazil! :D

[Hitcho]

Yes - it is always so well received here when Toronto FC talks about scouting missions!

We should do more. And it should involve me going to Spain. In March. Near the coast. For a week. For scouting. With my wife. Morgan Fairchild.
:D

Try sending someone other than Mo and see how that's received!

Although, not you. (No offence). :D

[jloome]

Yes - it is always so well received here when Toronto FC talks about scouting missions!

We should do more. And it should involve me going to Spain. In March. Near the coast. For a week. For scouting. With my wife. Morgan Fairchild.
:D

At the Star, they used to have quarterly meetings where the senior reporters were asked to submit project ideas for investigative features. Invariably, there would always be one or two who would submit "The Troubled Carribean." It actually became an in-house joke after awhile.

[Roogsy]

It's kind of like the CIA and the FBI -- you only hear about their mistakes, never their successes.
Just here we only hear about the one or two big options, and not the dozens (??) of moderate ones.

You mean the CIA. The FBI touts it's "successes" all the time.

[Roogsy]

As for scouting...let's just ask the fundamental question, what has Mo accomplished in all these beautiful scouting trips? How long does it take to find a genuine impact player?

1 year?
2 years?
3 years?

Has it already happened and I am simply not giving him credit? Or are people correct in being critical of Mo's scouting efforts? Which is it?

[anto7]

Perhaps I am expecting a little too much in thinking that our beloved club would share important information with it's fans or maybe other than those of us who frequent these boards nobody else really gives a shit. I guess I am too used to watching Sky Sports News every evening where you get every little detail of what is going on with every single club in England. I guess the interest is here is nowhere near that level and as such the club probably feels no need to update us on a regular basis. Is there not enough interest from the press to at least hold a press conference with the coach/GM once a month in the off-season ?

[Roogsy]

I agree with the position that it really isn't anything that should be shared publicly. I mean, we are talking about proprietary knowledge that affects a team's strategy.

But more than that, I would simply say, don't believe there is too much info back there anyways. TFC's only proven ability to scout is college players. Beyond that, they have shown no ability to find outside players that can be effective. So basically you are asking for inside info that isn't there anyways.

[Hitcho]

^ um, sanyang and gomez?

[Roogsy]

I wouldn't call them impactful. They aren't busts but they aren't unbelievable finds either. They are young and hopefully they will be starters one day, but they current aren't and there are no assurances they ever will be. Successful scouting involves more than bringing in talent that one day you hope will have an impact.

[Hitcho]

^ i'm wary of disagreeing with you, Agent, but few things I'd add. First, it's rare to have a player that can have that great an impact who isn;t already on the radar, and therefore isn't really a candidate for being "scouted" as clubs are already of him. SO to fit your model, would be a pretty rare thing. Second, even if they did find someone like that, chances of that player going to MLS not great and to TFC within MLS even less. And lastly, the really big clubs have entire worldwide scouting networks to do exactly what you said scouting required more than.

:D

[Roogsy]

Then you're basically saying players fall into two categories. Those that can have an impact only go to big teams, and we will never have a shot because they're already too big. And then it's the rest who aren't good enough to be starters in MLS! :eek:

That is quite the gap. I'd have to believe there is something in between.

As for big clubs...their scouting does everything and more because they have the capabilities to do so. They bring in young players, and veterans. They bring in kids and develop them and they bring in kids that are already developed. They tap talent that might be moving, whether on free transfers or not, they bring in big names and not-so-big names. So they do far more than what you give them credit for.

Mo has brought in 2 kids that aren't starters and that's all we can do? But because we're not a big club our scouting can't do more? I don't accept that.

[Shakes McQueen]

you cant give away where you are going to everyone. If you do then another team can land a discovery claim on certain players.

Its about playing your cards right in the MLS

This seems to be the logical answer. It isn't like it's normal for teams in this league to openly discuss their scouting missions, or who they are looking at, with their fans.

All you do is increase the chance that another team comes in and beats you to a discovery claim on a player.

I don't care if they tell us where they are looking - I just care that they actually look.

- Scott

[TFCRegina]

I wouldn't call them impactful.

I should hope not. Nobody likes the impact.

Shite jokes aside, keep in mind Gomez and Sanyang are miles ahead of what Velez was for our team.

They made an instant impact by not being Velez...

[H Bomb]

I don't care if they tell us where they are looking - I just care that they actually look.

- Scott

Tada, we have a winner.

For those of you who did not follow a club before TFC this is how it works. If there is a rumour about a player coming to your team it was started by their agent. Agents for south american/african players would not get a story over in Toronto.

That is all.

The idea of details for scouting missions? I dunno, perhaps we could hear more about their hydro bill this year.

[Roogsy]

I should hope not. Nobody likes the impact.

Shite jokes aside, keep in mind Gomez and Sanyang are miles ahead of what Velez was for our team.

They made an instant impact by not being Velez...

:lol:

Oh man that's low. Liked Marco. I thought he could have been a serviceable bench player.

[TFCRegina]

:lol:

Oh man that's low. Liked Marco. I thought he could have been a serviceable bench player.

Nice guy, not a great player. :P

I like to think he was a serviceable bench player...he serviced the team well on the bench.

[Roogsy]

:lol:

Ouch!

[Oldtimer]

So you want to know who TFC are scouting? Here's one:


Armenian striker Ilia Javorijan to undergo trial with Toronto FC


MLS side Toronto FC have handed a 10-day trial to Armenian striker Ilia Javorijan (http://www.imscouting.com/players/ilia-javorijan/) , starting from February 8th.
The 28-year-old target man has been plying his trade in Israel since 2004, and this season he has been a major disappointment for Maccabi Tel Aviv (http://www.imscouting.com/teams/israel/maccabi-tel-aviv/) despite scoring 4 goals in 10 league appearances.
According to reports in Israel, Maccabi Tel Aviv (http://www.imscouting.com/teams/israel/maccabi-tel-aviv/) are trying to get rid of the striker who doesn't wish to play for other sides in the country and prefers a move abroad.



http://www.imscouting.com/global-news-article/Armenian-striker-Ilia-Javorijan-to-undergo-trial-with-Toronto-FC/4805/

[Oldtimer]

Here's another one:


BINSTOCK TO TRY OUT FOR MLS

Iona College goalkeeper Nils Binstock will attempt to earn a spot on a Major League Soccer roster when he goes on trial with Toronto FC at the end of this month.

Binstock was a Second-Team All-MAAC performer the past two seasons for Iona. This past year, he led the MAAC in GAA (0.66), save percentage (.855) and shutouts (10). During his career, Binstock recorded 256 saves, 25 shutouts and had a save percentage of .749 for the Maroon & Gold.

Toronto FC is the first Canadian and non-American team in the MLS, the United States' pre-eminent professional soccer league. Founded in 2006, the team joined the league at the start of the 2007 season.http://www.icgaels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=64287&SPID=7095&DB_OEM_ID=14900&ATCLID=204865240

[mlsintoronto]

I wouldn't call them impactful. They aren't busts but they aren't unbelievable finds either. They are young and hopefully they will be starters one day, but they current aren't and there are no assurances they ever will be.

The kids were 18 and 17! Amadou has 3-4 years of development before he's equal to the age of many draft picks! Judging by his development with us so far, I'd put him on a trajectory of being a top 5 draft pick in quality...when he is 21. To read your comment we should only scout for starters? No thank you. You absolutely scout for potential. This is why we have 50 kids in our Academy system. We'll be lucky if a few of those make it to our <potential, future> Reserves. None have advanced yet.

In any other country the young guns from Gambia would be in our Academy, not on the bench for the first team, and would be available for call up to the first team when required...but thats a different discussion about NCAA vs the World.

[Parkdale]

^ haven't you lurked around here long enough to know that debates with roogsy aren't worth having?

[trane]

^ I would always prefer a kid developed by a good academy then by the NCAA, althought they have improved and Mo has been good at picking tallent from there.


I like both the Gambian players, I think within 2 years they will be great MLS players. [if they do not move on]

[mlsintoronto]

^ haven't you lurked around here long enough to know that debates with roogsy aren't worth having?

I'm not debating him so much as doing what I always do....commandeer the board to push my own agenda.

[pekduck]

I'm not debating him so much as doing what I always do....commandeer the board to push my own agenda.

gravy boat again?

[mlsintoronto]

gravy boat again?

not this time. for contentious issues I resort to colourful euphemisms so as to inject humour and to deflect the bile anger and rage that usually is directed my way.

Also, "Bile, Anger and Rage" was the name of my Ska band in 1985.

Also, I looked it up, but shouldn't the plural of euphemism be euphemisa?

[pekduck]

as long as you capitalize Euphemisms it'll be fine

like Leafs versus leaves...

wait.... where am i going with this?

[trane]

^ You were a Rudeboy? Like ;


bVcD1xAMTo8

[mlsintoronto]

^ You were a Rudeboy? Like ;



Why past tense? I AM a rudeboy, like.

[Parkdale]

was Stu in your band? I know he plays the guitbox.

[werewolf]

The kids were 18 and 17!


http://www.linux-france.org/prj/jargonf/fig/ROFLMAO.jpg


I can get you a great deal on ocean-front retirement property in Idaho, if you're interested.

[mlsintoronto]

was Stu in your band? I know he plays the guitbox.

no. and he was always 10X the musician I ever was. He could play Rush songs. Not a lot of saxophone in Rush songs.

[mlsintoronto]

http://www.linux-france.org/prj/jargonf/fig/ROFLMAO.jpg


I can get you a great deal on ocean-front retirement property in Idaho, if you're interested.

fair point. I should have been more explicit: "The held Gambian passports that suggested they were 17- and 18- years old!"

[Carts]

no. and he was always 10X the musician I ever was. He could play Rush songs. Not a lot of saxophone in Rush songs.

Screw cowbell, the world needs more saxophone...!!!

Carts... :D

[werewolf]

fair point. I should have been more explicit: "The held Gambian passports that suggested they were 17- and 18- years old!"

That's more like it. :lol:

[Parkdale]

http://komplettie.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/heroes-of-the-keytar-jpg.jpeg

[trane]

Why past tense? I AM a rudeboy, like.


I can trully appreciate that.

[ag futbol]

The kids were 18 and 17! Amadou has 3-4 years of development before he's equal to the age of many draft picks! Judging by his development with us so far, I'd put him on a trajectory of being a top 5 draft pick in quality...when he is 21. To read your comment we should only scout for starters? No thank you. You absolutely scout for potential. This is why we have 50 kids in our Academy system. We'll be lucky if a few of those make it to our <potential, future> Reserves. None have advanced yet.

In any other country the young guns from Gambia would be in our Academy, not on the bench for the first team, and would be available for call up to the first team when required...but thats a different discussion about NCAA vs the World.
There’s a certain element of this I agree with, but the flip side is I’m concerned about the success of our youth program. It’s absolutely true that at best you are going to convert a very low % of your youth prospects.

I worry that TFCA isn’t getting the best players into the program (or keeping them once they are there) and therefor isn’t converting any players. I strongly believe there is enough talent within the area to make a running start at a program where at least a player or two every other year should be able to make the back end of a MLS squad. Quite honestly from what I’ve seen of that team, I do not blame TFC staff for not bringing anybody up. But we should be asking ourselves why there’s been no fruit for our efforts so far?

Maybe the terrible MLS rules are keeping the academy development process in check or something else is missing the mark.

[king dave]

Why bother scouting players?
TFC/MLSE already has our money and pretty much the same team as last year and maybe a few additions.
You know.
The shitty punters other MLS teams want to get rid of.
I'm trying to look forward to better things from TFC but I do smell another less than mediocre team this coming season.
Moe scouts pole dancers not footy players:o
KD.

[AL-MO]

Why bother scouting players?
TFC/MLSE already has our money and pretty much the same team as last year and maybe a few additions.
You know.
The shitty punters other MLS teams want to get rid of.
I'm trying to look forward to better things from TFC but I do smell another less than mediocre team this coming season.
Moe scouts pole dancers not footy players:o
KD.

Holy shit, we haven't even got to the MLS draft yet. I'll hold my judgement on this team until closer to the season.

[Hitcho]

The kids were 18 and 17! Amadou has 3-4 years of development before he's equal to the age of many draft picks! Judging by his development with us so far, I'd put him on a trajectory of being a top 5 draft pick in quality...when he is 21. To read your comment we should only scout for starters? No thank you. You absolutely scout for potential. This is why we have 50 kids in our Academy system. We'll be lucky if a few of those make it to our <potential, future> Reserves. None have advanced yet.

In any other country the young guns from Gambia would be in our Academy, not on the bench for the first team, and would be available for call up to the first team when required...but thats a different discussion about NCAA vs the World.

Amen brother.

And Roogs, I still think it would be hard for TFC to scout for undiscovered first team players. We need to do an on MLS level what Arsenal have done in the PL. Spend years snapping up hot young prospects and then wait for some of them to come good. Clearly we're not going to get any Cesc's, but we might find ourselves with another De Ro if we stick it through. Players who turn out to be great for MLS but wouldn't really cut it in a big league. In the meantime, a whole bunch of them will just fade away and flop. That's how it goes while you're waiting for your next unpolished gem to start shining.

PB - I take back my previous comment. Keep MoJo here doing... whatever it is he does... and you go scouting instead. You can even post fake updates on here to A) keep the mob happy and B) mis-direct the Shite Bulls to some turd player. :D:D:D

[trane]

Why bother scouting players?
TFC/MLSE already has our money and pretty much the same team as last year and maybe a few additions.
You know.
The shitty punters other MLS teams want to get rid of.
I'm trying to look forward to better things from TFC but I do smell another less than mediocre team this coming season.
Moe scouts pole dancers not footy players:o
KD.

I did not want to say it, and I am waiting to officialy say it ONLY after the contract talks are over, but that feeling is starting to creep in with me as well. My hope mostly lies with Preki getting more out of what we got.