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denime
01-04-2010, 05:41 AM
Mornin'


Canadian soccer at a crossroads (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2010/01/03/12334946.html)



SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/)

akoto
01-04-2010, 08:00 AM
Morning denime.

Thanks again.

drewski
01-04-2010, 10:50 AM
extra seating approved



Paul Beirne

Thanks Exec Cmtee: RT @mayormiller (http://twitter.com/mayormiller): Executive Committee approves 1,249 new seats at BMO Field/National Soccer Stadium at sole cost of MLSE

TFC FORZA RPB
01-04-2010, 12:10 PM
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100104/koddities/us_odd_mcnugget_arrest

scooter
01-04-2010, 01:01 PM
mornin d

TorCanSoc
01-04-2010, 01:14 PM
Sorry, I'm baffled how this has TFC relevance, other than a bit of Ohio bashing.

TFC FORZA RPB
01-04-2010, 01:15 PM
Sorry, I'm baffled how this has TFC relevance, other than a bit of Ohio bashing.


LMFAO hahaha

Phil
01-04-2010, 01:22 PM
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2010/01/monday-kickoff-on-mls-labor-talks-landons-everton-arrival-and-more.html

Here is some news that we should have a large degree of concern over:



Today's first topic is the MLS labor talks, which sources tell me aren't going so well. According to two veteran members of the MLS players union, Major League Soccer is playing hardball with the union and hasn't come close to considering some of the demands being made by the players. Guaranteed contracts, allowing teams to negotiate contacts rather than the league office, and free agency are issues the players union appear ready to fight for, but are three issues MLS is apparently not ready to budge on.

What should we expect? Don't be surprised if MLS locks out its players if the union doesn't budge, and by the sound of things, it doesn't appear the union is ready to back down any time soon.

We haven't touched on the labor situation much this off-season, but will be ramping up our coverage of the issue in the coming days and weeks so stay tuned.


Quite simply, I dont think it will benefit the league at all if there is a work stoppage of any kind. I hope both sides get their shit together and solve this.

Mark in Ottawa
01-04-2010, 01:25 PM
Quite simply, I dont think it will benefit the league at all if there is a work stoppage of any kind. I hope both sides get their shit together and solve this.
Has there ever been a sports related work stoppage that benefitted the game in the long run??

I can't think of one just now....

Phil
01-04-2010, 01:33 PM
Has there ever been a sports related work stoppage that benefitted the game in the long run??

I can't think of one just now....

Agreed. I just feel that something like this has far more reprocussions league wide. I could see teams disapearing, if not a folding of the league.

In the past the work stoppage hurt, but the potential level is disruption at this point could be huge. Especially for something that could be avoided.

koryo
01-04-2010, 01:34 PM
A work stoppage would be a disaster for this League. It would take them years to recover, it they were able to recover at all.

Roogsy
01-04-2010, 01:38 PM
I am with the players on this one. The league has grown exponentially since the last CBA and the last CBA didn't have that many concessions for the players to begin with. At some point, the league has to acknowledge that the sacrifice that EVERYONE was willing to make during the initial years in the league is now yielding results and those were had been willing to making those sacrifices should see some compensation. That includes owners of course. After enduring years of losses a little profitability would be nice. But at the same time, they've grown this league on the backs of players to whom they were paying a pittance. I mean...it was and I think still is pretty shocking what they are paying professional athletes. These athletes also paid their due and now is the time they need to address some of the massive failings of this CBA.

We are talking about people's livelihoods. Of course the players are going to make a stand. At some point when you look around you and big money is being thrown around like confetti, you're going to want in on it too. With a franchise fee quadrupling in a matter of a few years, it's reasonable for players to start asking things that they should have gotten in the first place but couldn't when the league could barely survive.

If the players get locked out, I will place full blame on the league for whatever damage it will cause.

AL-MO
01-04-2010, 01:46 PM
Has there ever been a sports related work stoppage that benefitted the game in the long run??

I can't think of one just now....

The NFL had a work stoppage many years ago. Given how the league is organized now, I would say it benefited from it. (although some future uncertainty looms)

But MLS is a different kettle of fish. A work stoppage would be terrible for this league. I think it would be very sad as I believe there has been some progress the last few years.

Bill Archer actually had a good blog a while back explaining why the Owners won't back down and have no reason to.

AL-MO
01-04-2010, 01:48 PM
Could the players look for spots on other teams in other leagues? Or would their MLS contract prevent them from that?

ManUtd4ever
01-04-2010, 01:52 PM
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2010/01/monday-kickoff-on-mls-labor-talks-landons-everton-arrival-and-more.html

Here is some news that we should have a large degree of concern over:



Quite simply, I dont think it will benefit the league at all if there is a work stoppage of any kind. I hope both sides get their shit together and solve this.

The article doesn't sound too promising. I am somewhat baffled that the MLS owners would take such a hard line stance given the reasonable demands of the players union. While I previously stated on a personal note that I would try to support TFC in the event of a lockout, I have no doubt that an extended work stoppage would cause irreparable damage to the long term viability of the league...

Blizzard
01-04-2010, 02:06 PM
The article doesn't sound too promising. I am somewhat baffled that the MLS owners would take such a hard line stance given the reasonable demands of the players union. While I previously stated on a personal note that I would try to support TFC in the event of a lockout, I have no doubt that an extended work stoppage would cause irreparable damage to the long term viability of the league...

I can understand the logic of the league retaining the contract negotiation position as they are paying the salaries unlike in any other soccer league in the world I can think of.

It is probably the position MLS is taking on all of the outstanding demands.

That said, if I'm a player, a guaranteed contract should be expected. That should be a no-brainer. MLS won't want to do that as it will cost money. I want to call them "cheap bastards" but until the league is making a profit (let's not talk about SUM right now), I understand their position but it doesn't make it right.

Redcoe15
01-04-2010, 03:54 PM
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2010/01/monday-kickoff-on-mls-labor-talks-landons-everton-arrival-and-more.html

Here is some news that we should have a large degree of concern over:



Quite simply, I dont think it will benefit the league at all if there is a work stoppage of any kind. I hope both sides get their shit together and solve this.
:hulk:

rocker
01-04-2010, 04:00 PM
there's still something like 28 days til the old contract ends. I don't think leagues usually settle with players a month before the deadline. they'll talk tough now... but the key moment begins a few days before. then they'll really negotiate.

ensco
01-04-2010, 04:08 PM
There's a third possibility. Player's lawsuit under US antitrust law. This would probably freeze everything in place (no strike, no lockout) while it moves through the courts.

I don't care what MLS says, their position is not that solid on legal grounds. Only baseball has an antitrust exemption in the US. MLS has many unusual, untested monopolistic practices that may not stand up well in court.

Carts
01-04-2010, 04:09 PM
Has there ever been a sports related work stoppage that benefitted the game in the long run??

I can't think of one just now....

Actually, the long term financial health of the National Hockey League is probably one example of a league actually benefitting from a lockout (in long term)...

The NHL needed to implement several financial systems to stop the growing debt crisis with several teams, and the league themselves. The salary cap was needed, the union said quote "it will never happen". They were locked out and the cap is now in place...

Funny enough, the NHL cap is one of the smallest things the league did to limit losses in revenue etc - it just gets the most press b/c it directly affects players and fans... Doing stories about excutive taxes in arena signage isn't good TV (but I actually had to do one for SportsCentre lol)...

Don't be suprised if you see another labour stoppage in the NHL when the current CBA expires - the league has other items they feel they must implement to succeed...

The lockout did have some casualities. Many people don't know that NHL is currently "helping" several clubs operate. The league is a "financial contributor" with the club. Basically they are funding the teams when they fall short on any kind of expenses to avoid teams from falling into more serious debt, loans called, bankruptcy etc etc - as that often causes major sponsors and local sponsors to either pull out, or try and renegotiate sponsor deals. Anyway.....

That being said, I personally think that a long term labour stoppage in the MLS could basically kill the league... In short, their roots aren't deep enough to get through it...

Carts...

Hitcho
01-04-2010, 04:30 PM
This has got last minute panic talks written all over it right now. We'll just have to hope that something gets resolved that benefits all of the stakeholders (league, owners, players and fans).

I honestly cannot imagine some teams surviving a strike. TFC would probably be fine, as we'd all gripe and moan and then go back to BMO Field the following season frothing at the mouth with anticipation. The deamnd is even there for any season ticket drop outs to be picked up without MLSE noticing any kind of hit. Franchises like Seattle would also probably survive. But would Dallas, Columbus etc be able to withstand a significant hit on attendance that a strike might cause? And if the league loses some recognised names in major US cities, will the commercial revenue take a killer hit?

From the ashes would probably arise a more streamlined league with fewer entrants but more stable franchises built in the TFC, Seattle mould (and I'd include Mtl and Van in that list too). Still, I'd rather see this get settled now and have everyone move on sensibly.

A much bigger worry is the impact this could have on the collective USA subconscious when it comes to soccer. Right now it is seen as a growth market and a sport that might just make it big in Namerica in the long run. But another failed league that folds a la NASL would do serious and irreparable damage to the image of the sport as a whole in the US. The game would never recover from it and would always be seen as a joke sport waiting to fold again. And that, really, is the biggest driver for everyone invovled with MLS, at any level.

jloome
01-04-2010, 05:51 PM
There's a third possibility. Player's lawsuit under US antitrust law. This would probably freeze everything in place (no strike, no lockout) while it moves through the courts.

I don't care what MLS says, their position is not that solid on legal grounds. Only baseball has an antitrust exemption in the US. MLS has many unusual, untested monopolistic practices that may not stand up well in court.

This has already happened. They've already won an extensive anti-trust case in the courts, several years ago.

The only no-win on this one is the fanbase. People who think this will ruin MLS are kidding themselves: it only has hardcore fans, so the loss of "walkup" fans for a few months - particularly to teams already losing money on paper - isn't going to be particularly damaging.

That's one of the benefits of the emergence of soccer "culture", from the owners perspective. If you're following MLS every day, you're probably already a die-hard footie fan, so you're not going to completely abandon your home team just because of a labour dispute for a few months. Baseball, on the other hand, has always relied on the "it's a nice thing to do on Sunday" walkup crowd; it's a "pastime". For teams like the Expos, with the same overhead as clubs drawing tens of thousands more, it was death. For FC Dallas, it just means a few months of not having to pay player salaries.

Similarly, the players have little to lose because...they have little to lose.

I can see this dragging on well through the year and us having a shortened season at best.

ensco
01-04-2010, 07:17 PM
^jloome, that trial was in 2000 and was filed by 8 players acting alone, not the union. A district judge threw out the case because he ruled that the league's "single entity" system wasn't "restraint of trade" because that statute narrowly requires that "two or more parties" must conspire for there to be restraint of trade.

I'm no lawyer, but I've had business experience with the US Labor Relations Board. I think the league got pretty lucky on that 2000 suit, and a more comprehensive lawsuit, if refiled by the union (and not players on their own), and combined with a filing at the USNLRB, could have other outcomes.

Roogsy
01-04-2010, 07:28 PM
Let's not forget that the World Cup is a prime moment for the league to demonstrate it's product. If it's in the middle of a strike or lock-out and there is no product to offer up for fans, there won't be another opportunity for another 4 years. A work stoppage would be the dumbest thing for either side to allow to happen.

If there is a deal to be made, make it before the season starts for the sake of everyone involved in the sport.

TFCRegina
01-04-2010, 07:33 PM
There's also the fact that there are more opportunities to the players in MLS. If the league fails, there are a million third and fourth rate divisions in the world where they can go to ply their trade.

Roogsy
01-04-2010, 08:01 PM
Or any other 40k job for in shape dudes in their 20s.

I mean, if we were talking about players losing 500k or 1mill...maybe I'd see them panic.

But you can fall backwards and find employment that will pay you more than what MLS pays the lower-end players, and really they are the ones that are looking for some improvement from the CBA.

forza_tfc
01-04-2010, 08:53 PM
Am I the only one who didn't know about this?

From Ives:
"...That's disappointing news for Zenga, who has been trying to return to MLS for some time now. He also put himself up for the Toronto FC job when John Carver left the club last summer, but TFC passed on him."

Nice to see people want to be with TFC.

ag futbol
01-04-2010, 11:58 PM
Or any other 40k job for in shape dudes in their 20s.

I mean, if we were talking about players losing 500k or 1mill...maybe I'd see them panic.

But you can fall backwards and find employment that will pay you more than what MLS pays the lower-end players, and really they are the ones that are looking for some improvement from the CBA.
Yes Jay Heaps "retired" to a position recently at Morgan Stanley. He's probably not too hungry to have his MLS contract back.

ag futbol
01-05-2010, 12:04 AM
Am I the only one who didn't know about this?

From Ives:
"...That's disappointing news for Zenga, who has been trying to return to MLS for some time now. He also put himself up for the Toronto FC job when John Carver left the club last summer, but TFC passed on him."

Nice to see people want to be with TFC.
No ill will to TFC for not hiring him (I think we did quite well) but I'd say most teams who filled their HC spot this off season will do much worse than Zenga, speaks to their level of ambition IMO.

I could quite honestly see Saputo hiring the guy if he decides Dos Santos isn't the one to bring the team to MLS eventually. But that's way down the road.

Cashcleaner
01-05-2010, 12:08 AM
I am with the players on this one. The league has grown exponentially since the last CBA and the last CBA didn't have that many concessions for the players to begin with. At some point, the league has to acknowledge that the sacrifice that EVERYONE was willing to make during the initial years in the league is now yielding results and those were had been willing to making those sacrifices should see some compensation. That includes owners of course. After enduring years of losses a little profitability would be nice. But at the same time, they've grown this league on the backs of players to whom they were paying a pittance. I mean...it was and I think still is pretty shocking what they are paying professional athletes. These athletes also paid their due and now is the time they need to address some of the massive failings of this CBA.

We are talking about people's livelihoods. Of course the players are going to make a stand. At some point when you look around you and big money is being thrown around like confetti, you're going to want in on it too. With a franchise fee quadrupling in a matter of a few years, it's reasonable for players to start asking things that they should have gotten in the first place but couldn't when the league could barely survive.

If the players get locked out, I will place full blame on the league for whatever damage it will cause.

Couldn't agree more with you on this one. The league has grown it's popularity by leaps and bounds over the past few years and are making some good coin from merch, tickets, tv deals, franchise fees etc. So many people have been putting in the effort to grow the sport and I do agree the owners are just as entitled as anyone else to compensation for getting this league up to the level it's at as a sports organization, but in all honesty the players have been bearing some of the worst of things. I mean, we have a situation where league DPs are making an obscene amount of money compared to the medial players on most teams. And I'm not talking about the rookies and bench warmers - I mean the starters. The guys who have been carrying this league on their backs for years deserve a break, financially speaking, and I certainly hope they don't back down in the talks regarding salary.

Yozzarian
01-05-2010, 12:30 AM
Anyone else get the feeling that the league is bit of a ponzi scheme? It seems -- with a few exceptions (Toronto, LA, Seattle, etc.) -- everyone is losing money, yet there are people willing to pay $40MM just to sign up. That pays off the other teams and keps them afloat. The league does not have that much more room to grow before you have to stop looking at new teams to bring a buckets of cash to the party.
A collaspe blamed on the players would allow many "good" folks to wash their hands of the league before the pyramid comes tumbling down.
Not that I think all the MLS owners are like that, or even the majority, but it tickles the back of one's mind.
My thought is that the players are treated badly in this league. The common reply is "then move to a better paying league" but visa requirements -- particularly at the lower end of the international payscale are not a simple matter.

my 2c anyway...