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View Full Version : The real reason the NASL wasn't sanctioned?



Oldtimer
01-02-2010, 10:51 AM
To avoid competition with MLS?

For purposes of understanding conspiracy theories, Sunil Gulati (the President of the US Soccer Federation) was the person who originally designed MLS, including how the single-entity structure functions. Gulati is on the payroll of Robert Kraft, who owns the New England Revolution (giving him a massive conflict of interest). Don Garber sits on the board of directors of the USSF, so there is plenty of fuel for the idea that the USSF has MLS's owners' interests as #1.



“In the best interest of soccer in the United States, we decided to not sanction either league at this point," Gualti said.

Let me rephrase Gulati's statement so that it makes more sense.

"In the best interest of MLS, we decided to shut down the possibility of competition."

The logic of the USSF power move against the NASL makes sense when one realizes that all it would take to topple the slow, steady and incremental progress of MLS would be for one enthusiastic, big-pocketed owner to decide to join the NASL, and take advantage of the greater flexibility of the organization. http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2009/12/30/1717712/canales-corner-ussf-power-play-takes-out-nasl

The NASL doesn't have a salary cap or roster restrictions like MLS, so it really could become a glamour league like the old NASL, making MLS look second rate.

Wouldn't it be interesting if some rich multi-billionaire re-enacted the Cosmos' playbook and created a new "best superclub in the world?"

I_AM_CANADIAN
01-02-2010, 10:54 AM
I consider the level of journalism present on Goal.com to be about on par with that found in the National Enquirer, but that was actually a very enlightening article. I had no idea there was so many conflicts of interest in the USSF.

CoachGT
01-02-2010, 11:17 AM
I consider the level of journalism present on Goal.com to be about on par with that found in the National Enquirer, but that was actually a very enlightening article. I had no idea there was so many conflicts of interest in the USSF.

Read the book Foul! - it isn't just the USSF. Scary stuff!

rocker
01-02-2010, 11:24 AM
i don't believe the conspiracy theories. it's all too hypothetical really.

i find it easier to believe they don't want to weigh in on the debate and get their asses sued by the losing party. Or they think a league with 7 teams + 3 expansion teams is no strong enough to sanction.

Cashcleaner
01-02-2010, 12:07 PM
I think the writer of this article over-estimates the likely success of the NASL. This quote really stuck out:


The USL, with its rules and limits, was always a safe, non-threatening league that MLS never had to worry about.

Not so the NASL. Any billionaire could swoop in and laugh at the lack of a designated player rule and buy great players for his team. Even the name of the league taps into the nostalgia for top-down soccer success. Screw the "slow, steady" MLS progress. Remember the Cosmos.

I mean, does anyone really belive that sort of scenario would have happened? If anything, the NASL clubs would probably draw the same sorta crowds they had in USL-1, perhaps even less and I doubt anyone would see an NASL franchise as a great investment opportunity compared to one for MLS.

Beach_Red
01-02-2010, 12:26 PM
Wouldn't it be interesting if some rich multi-billionaire re-enacted the Cosmos' playbook and created a new "best superclub in the world?"



And if the billionaire could get his team in some meaningful competitions (European Champions League) it might even work.

But what's the point of a new "best superclub in the world," playing against the Columbus Crew or the Kansas City Wizards? What kind of TV ratings will that get?

I like that people feel there is so much interest in spending money in soccer in North America that it's worth conspiring over. And I do think that soccer is heading towards a tipping point in popularity. But how far away from that is soccer? Yes, moving too slowly will be a problem, but so will moving too quickly. How many businesses fail because they over-extend too soon?

rocker
01-02-2010, 12:29 PM
I haven't heard anything about the NASL's plans in regards to salaries and whatnot. So the Cosmos theory is stretching it, I think.

Anyhow, the last time the NASL allowed freespending, it died... and the NASL doesn't have the stadiums to compete with MLS now. I also think fans are smarter now. Yes, maybe one market could be fooled into supporting a freespending NASL team, but there won't be 10 other billionaires... and they won't have 20000 seat stadiums anytime soon... so the lesser teams would probably be shitty and fans would realize it. This is the great thing about MLS and it's slow-growth approach... it has such a strong foundation now that it can withstand competitors.

SteeltownBhoy
01-02-2010, 02:18 PM
The conflicts on the USSF board are undeniable, but I think something else is at play.
If MLS was to lockout the players in a work dispute, the players could certainly try and hook up with a USL 1 club. Now with not having any 2nd division league sanctioned thats less likely for several reasons. I guess they could try USL 2, but money wise, I don't know.

I think Garber ia a wolf in sheep's clothing, and is pulling the USSF strings. He is going to play hardball with the player's in these negoiations and will use the USL\ NASL stituation to his benefit.

Gazza_55
01-02-2010, 03:13 PM
The conflicts on the USSF board are undeniable, but I think something else is at play.
If MLS was to lockout the players in a work dispute, the players could certainly try and hook up with a USL 1 club. Now with not having any 2nd division league sanctioned thats less likely for several reasons. I guess they could try USL 2, but money wise, I don't know.

I think Garber ia a wolf in sheep's clothing, and is pulling the USSF strings. He is going to play hardball with the player's in these negoiations and will use the USL\ NASL stituation to his benefit.

If Garber had any pull with the USSF don't you think he would have done something about the quality of officials the USSF provides?

Shway
01-02-2010, 03:39 PM
KBfZI4N0yiA
Could be our future

AL-MO
01-02-2010, 03:48 PM
I am not big on conspiracy theories. So until I see the minutes of this meeting I won't weigh in on this issue.

For all we know Garber could have stated his conflict of interest on the matter and not voted at all.

james
01-02-2010, 05:50 PM
but MLS has fan bases in Major cities, you think TFC or Seattle or DC supporters would just jump ship to join NASL?? MLS already has most of the biggest cities in the US. NASL would have to start from scratch in cities that dont even have a fan base yet...or stadiums, well soccer specific ones anyways.

ensco
01-02-2010, 06:23 PM
I have always wondered if a team that didn't play in a league, but just barnstormed with stars, like the Harlem Globetrotters of old, could work. After all, hundred of thousands in Asia paid to see Beckham play for a world nonentity (the Galaxy).

ArmenJBX
01-02-2010, 07:21 PM
Even if all this shit went down, NASL's teams slowly will become MLS teams. Montreal and Vancouver are on route, and others may follow.

I can't see this being a big deal.

Redcoe15
01-02-2010, 10:48 PM
KBfZI4N0yiA
Could be our future
:eek: Don't say that! Garber and MLS couldn't be THAT stupid!

canadian_bhoy
01-02-2010, 10:57 PM
Good.

MLS was created so that the US could have a proper domestic league. For over 10 years it has succeeded despite remaining a niche sport/league.

The last thing MLS/we need is some stupid NASL pipe dream to fuck it all up.

TOBOR !
01-05-2010, 12:22 PM
from what I've read above it appears that the common belief has the central idea of the new NASL being akin to that of the old WHA back in the day.

I'd rather wager that the intent may be at first to provide a decent second tier, likely with it's own (better) TV deal, and an eye to the future of perhaps becoming part of a promotion / relegation system. With the USL set as it is now there's no way this would ever happen.

recent article, mostly the same information posted above here : http://www.carynews.com/sports/story/15350.html

Perhaps the USL and TOA/NASL can reach an agreement whereby NASL is the top USL division (since USL I only has 4 teams left) and the next step can be taken from there... [shrugs].

jabbronies
01-05-2010, 12:39 PM
I don't think the US is ready for another competing league to MLS. Look at the problems that some of the current MLS teams face with regards to getting SSS stadiums, as well as low attendance in alot of cities, including NY. The demand for more local soccer isn't there.

Another top tier league would really dilute the small US soccer fan base between the two leagues. It's not like the US is bursting with local soccer talent either.

jloome
01-05-2010, 12:52 PM
The real reason it wasn't sanctioned is likely more an issue of USSF wanting to see if a deal is worked out between the USL owners and the NASL owners before it all gets litigious.

In fact, though I doubt they expected this much resistance, my take is that MLS probably is pulling more than a few strings here. Because of the potential re-opening of anti-trust liability (you were right on that Ensco -- the lack of a competing league might cause that to reflare) having no league at all is probably the one scenario MLS doesn't want.

http://www.rednationonline.ca/NASL_No_Strange_Coincidence_jan_5_10_column.shtml

Parkdale
01-05-2010, 01:00 PM
Any billionaire could swoop in and laugh at the lack of a designated player rule and buy great players for his team. Even the name of the league taps into the nostalgia for top-down soccer success.




I mean, does anyone really belive that sort of scenario would have happened?


remember all the talk of Barca / Boca buying up Miami FC? Clearly they are in the market, and will sell to whoever wants to pony up the cash. If Miami actually became an unregulated version of Chivas (a puppuet team for a much bigger club back home) they would quickly become the strongest club in America.

TOBOR !
01-05-2010, 01:54 PM
I don't think the US is ready for another competing league to MLS. Look at the problems that some of the current MLS teams face with regards to getting SSS stadiums, as well as low attendance in alot of cities, including NY. The demand for more local soccer isn't there.

Another top tier league would really dilute the small US soccer fan base between the two leagues. It's not like the US is bursting with local soccer talent either.

I'm not here to say the NASL would compete with MLS, but would fit in behind it.

Perhaps in time if it became a viable enterprise (as much as MLS) you could see a AFL/NFL type merger, or even a P/R system created.

It's not unthinkable. Small minds will work to prevent it, I'm sure, thinking only to protect their interests, but the game in North America would benefit from it as a whole.

rocker
01-05-2010, 02:18 PM
i dont think the NASL could compete in reality. the capital that would be required to do this would be massive. yeah, 10 billionaires could come along and do it, but I don't see 10 billionaires throwing away money on something like this. and the USSF is the sanctioning body. You can't have 2 first divisions, so naturally the billionaire isn't going to buy into a 2nd division on hope (hope that in 10 years maybe it'll be big).

Now, could that 2nd division build 10-15 massive stadiums (playing in NFL stadiums would just cause the problems we complain about with MLS), sign the greatest players, trump the 1st division in popularity, then get the USSF to sanction it and remove MLS's sanction? I guess in THEORY....

but anything else, and this league would probably just fall by the wayside, like the original NASL. Remember that MLS is a direct response to the problems of the NASL.

If they get a couple billionaires + some other less rich owns, they repeat the mistake of the NASL (imbalance). If they get a couple billionaires owning all the teams, they have MLS (remember MLS was started by a couple rich guys who owned most of the teams).

TOBOR !
01-05-2010, 02:23 PM
*scratches head*... when did TOA/NASL ever say they wanted to compete against MLS ? Why would they be playing in NFL stadiums ?

Beach_Red
01-05-2010, 02:50 PM
remember all the talk of Barca / Boca buying up Miami FC? Clearly they are in the market, and will sell to whoever wants to pony up the cash. If Miami actually became an unregulated version of Chivas (a puppuet team for a much bigger club back home) they would quickly become the strongest club in America.


But what's the point of being the strongest club in America? How does that investment get repaid in half-empty MLS stadiums and no TV money?

Maybe Ensco is onto something with a barnstorming team that has no home league. Otherwise, looking at the strength of an individual team doesn't mean anything if the rest of the teams it plays against aren't strong.

Maybe if Amerian fans were more interested in the Champions league here, a few "big teams" would work, but first things first, they need to be more interested in MLS.

TOBOR !
01-05-2010, 03:31 PM
remember all the talk of Barca / Boca buying up Miami FC? Clearly they are in the market, and will sell to whoever wants to pony up the cash. If Miami actually became an unregulated version of Chivas (a puppuet team for a much bigger club back home) they would quickly become the strongest club in America.

I'm inclined to think that Barcelona was more interested in growing their brand than becoming some North American Superteam.

Parkdale
01-05-2010, 03:40 PM
they grow the brand by becoming the dominant US / NA team.

If barca (just for example) bought Miami FC, and could run the team however they wanted...

let's jsut say they'd slaughter everyone else and win every trophy possible, including ones that they can't currently win. That would open a whole new world for jersey sales around the world, and it would put money into their pockets. I can't say how much money, but certainly more than the investment in buying MIami FC outright.

Beach_Red
01-05-2010, 03:54 PM
they grow the brand by becoming the dominant US / NA team.

If barca (just for example) bought Miami FC, and could run the team however they wanted...

let's jsut say they'd slaughter everyone else and win every trophy possible, including ones that they can't currently win. That would open a whole new world for jersey sales around the world, and it would put money into their pockets. I can't say how much money, but certainly more than the investment in buying MIami FC outright.

Maybe. But it's not like RSL sales will go up because they won MLS. If a Miami/Barca team won MLS every year for five years in a row and won the CONCACAF Champions league would that make them more sellable, or less?

The Galaxy sold a lot of Beckham jerseys, but they didn't win anything.

Parkdale
01-05-2010, 04:03 PM
If someone bought Miami FC, it would be a hype show.
They would sell tons of jerseys just like LA did, but with less substance.

Just imagine if Barca (for example) bought the miami brand and sent
a few stars over for the winter months. Let's just say... Xavi and Puyol.
Right there, you are selling jerseys by the boat load, mostly just because
Miami is a marketable American city (not like Salt Lake) and people would
buy into the hype. Now Imagine if Barca sent Messi and henry to play there
for 3 games a season -- think of ticket sales? There's a fortune to be made,
and none of it would come from 'good sportsmanship'. It would be hype.

rocker
01-05-2010, 04:23 PM
yep, and it wouldn't challenge MLS at all. Big teams come over and play friendlies in the summer every year. So it wouldn't be that different. MLS still chugs along due to its strong foundation.

On another point regarding the NASL as challenger -- right now none of the NASL teams are in MLS markets or even MLS states. If NASL is to challenge, they would have to move teams directly into MLS states and cities, cuz MLS is already in most of the big cities in the US.

I think the NASL could serve as a good testing ground for soccer support. But I don't see it ever coming close to challenging MLS unless it deliberately moves, and boldly moves, to do so. And even then it risks failure against an entrenched foe.

Blizzard
01-05-2010, 04:50 PM
There's no way the NASL is out to challenge MLS. They're 2nd Division and they know it. Why would the Whitecaps have been one of the clubs leading the way to the NASL knowing that they are moving to MLS IF NASL was out to challenge their new league?

It makes no sense at all.

NASL, if sanctioned, will be nothing more than a more professionally run USL 1 ... and that is just fine ... despite their grandiose and borrowed name.

Beach_Red
01-05-2010, 05:28 PM
If someone bought Miami FC, it would be a hype show.
They would sell tons of jerseys just like LA did, but with less substance.

Just imagine if Barca (for example) bought the miami brand and sent
a few stars over for the winter months. Let's just say... Xavi and Puyol.
Right there, you are selling jerseys by the boat load, mostly just because
Miami is a marketable American city (not like Salt Lake) and people would
buy into the hype. Now Imagine if Barca sent Messi and henry to play there
for 3 games a season -- think of ticket sales? There's a fortune to be made,
and none of it would come from 'good sportsmanship'. It would be hype.

Maybe. Though I hope we never find out for sure.

These novelties tend to wear off quickly if the players aren't committed to the city. It becomes like a Bills in Toronto or the NFL games played in London. It doesn't take long for everyone to see them as the cash-grab, jersey sales they are. I hope ;).

Still, someday MLS is going to have to be more integrated with the top teams in the world. Someday there may be a "World Champions League" instead of the regional ones we have now. If American cities had teams playing meaningful games against the top teams in the world I think they would draw very big crowds and get huge TV ratings.

TOBOR !
01-05-2010, 08:46 PM
they grow the brand by becoming the dominant US / NA team.

If barca (just for example) bought Miami FC, and could run the team however they wanted...

let's jsut say they'd slaughter everyone else and win every trophy possible, including ones that they can't currently win. That would open a whole new world for jersey sales around the world, and it would put money into their pockets. I can't say how much money, but certainly more than the investment in buying MIami FC outright.

Not directly. They build the brand by forging partnerships. This is what all those Asian tours are all about. Furthermore, dominating in the MLS would be a lot harder than you're illustrating simply based on league rules and restrictions.

TOBOR !
01-05-2010, 08:49 PM
Still, someday MLS is going to have to be more integrated with the top teams in the world. Someday there may be a "World Champions League" instead of the regional ones we have now. If American cities had teams playing meaningful games against the top teams in the world I think they would draw very big crowds and get huge TV ratings.

As attractive as that might be i could never imagine it happening. I think the WCC is as extreme as it will ever get.

NF-FC
01-05-2010, 09:49 PM
Still, someday MLS is going to have to be more integrated with the top teams in the world. Someday there may be a "World Champions League" instead of the regional ones we have now. If American cities had teams playing meaningful games against the top teams in the world I think they would draw very big crowds and get huge TV ratings.

NFL Stadiums would not be big enough

Beach_Red
01-05-2010, 10:58 PM
As attractive as that might be i could never imagine it happening. I think the WCC is as extreme as it will ever get.

If there's money to be made, I can imagine it.

SvenFlu
01-07-2010, 02:57 PM
Well that was a stupid theory. Clearly the USSF just wanted them to come to a compromise and they did:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/soccerinsider/

Oldtimer
01-07-2010, 03:03 PM
Well that was a stupid theory. Clearly the USSF just wanted them to come to a compromise and they did:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/soccerinsider/

You mean conspiracy theorists aren't correct?

Aha, they'll say, wait and see if the USSF actually sanctions the deal.