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Rudy
12-29-2009, 09:07 PM
Check out New York Red Bulls Season Ticket Prices.... and compare to TFC prices.....
http://web.mlsnet.com/t107/tickets/2010/season.jsp

Does anyone see something wrong with this pic or is it just me???? what is happening here??? they dont even have different prices for "premium" vs "regular" games....

what am I missing here???

Super
12-29-2009, 09:10 PM
Supply and demand, etc.

Rudy
12-29-2009, 09:17 PM
But why is demand so low in other mlse cities? you see, the threat here is that if MLSE doesnt pick up in other cities soon, this might have detrimental impact on TFC.... why is demand so low?

TFC FORZA RPB
12-29-2009, 09:22 PM
i don't see a problem with the red bull ticket prices, all of those prices are in USD

DVS
12-29-2009, 09:26 PM
But why is demand so low in other mlse cities? you see, the threat here is that if MLSE doesnt pick up in other cities soon, this might have detrimental impact on TFC.... why is demand so low?

NY Giants
NY Jets
NY Knicks
NY Rangers
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
NY Islanders
NY Yankees
NY Mets

and the list goes on and on with things to do in NYC. If you look at it at a country spectrum there is college sports on top of everything else and the list goes on and on.

In Canada Soccer means something within some pockets (ex. BC, Toronto and MTL) in the States it is an afterthought.


DVS to state the obvious again

Rudy
12-29-2009, 09:34 PM
i don't see a problem with the red bull ticket prices, all of those prices are in USD

Last I checked, US was near at par with CAD!

Rudy
12-29-2009, 09:37 PM
NY Giants
NY Jets
NY Knicks
NY Rangers
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
NY Islanders
NY Yankees
NY Mets

and the list goes on and on with things to do in NYC. If you look at it at a country spectrum there is college sports on top of everything else and the list goes on and on.

In Canada Soccer means something within some pockets (ex. BC, Toronto and MTL) in the States it is an afterthought.


DVS to state the obvious again

MLS in TO won't survive long with the sub-optimal demand in the States.

Oldtimer
12-29-2009, 09:45 PM
what is happening here??? they dont even have different prices for "premium" vs "regular" games....



I'm not sure where you get that. They are not selling individual games yet, just Season Tickets and Partials. How do you know whether they will sell some individual games at a premium or not?

I'm tired of endless threads complaining about TFC vs. European or other MLS tickets. This is Toronto, not "wherever you choose to compare us to," and the prices are totally in line for Toronto prices.

The Endlines for the New Jersey Red Bulls are $299 (or $315 CDN). That compares with $323 for the Endlines at BMO Field. Hardly a big difference, and totally worth it to not have to watch the Red Bulls each week out in the boonies.

canadian_bhoy
12-29-2009, 09:55 PM
Countdown to someone posting that pig trough picture...3...2...1...

rocker
12-29-2009, 09:58 PM
also, for a fair comparison one needs to compare season 1 at BMO Field to season 1 at RBA.

Cuz tickets were cheaper in season 1 at BMO than season 4.
There were massive deals before December of 2006... couldn't you get a second south end set for $100 back then??

If people love to come out to RBA, call me in season 4 and we'll see how things stand.
Right now the shite bulls' prices actually look kinda high to me, considering the way Red Bull has screwed over supporters there and killed the fanbase, and the fact they need to fill 25000 seats in New Joisey.

prizby
12-29-2009, 10:00 PM
i like the little dinky section for visitors

jazzy
12-29-2009, 10:17 PM
I'm not sure where you get that. They are not selling individual games yet, just Season Tickets and Partials. How do you know whether they will sell some individual games at a premium or not?

I'm tired of endless threads complaining about TFC vs. European or other MLS tickets. This is Toronto, not "wherever you choose to compare us to," and the prices are totally in line for Toronto prices.

The Endlines for the New Jersey Red Bulls are $299 (or $315 CDN). That compares with $323 for the Endlines at BMO Field. Hardly a big difference, and totally worth it to not have to watch the Red Bulls each week out in the boonies.

What I find interesting is the mid reds only going for $585, that doesn't compare with our high end mids. They seem to have all the seats closer in price. As pointed out great competition for the sports dollar. I would be pleasantly surprised though, if this area can be as successful and spirited as Seattle

torontocelt
12-29-2009, 11:24 PM
I'm tired of endless threads complaining about TFC vs. European or other MLS tickets. This is Toronto, not "wherever you choose to compare us to," and the prices are totally in line for Toronto prices.



I dont think I will ever understand why some people on these boards defend the prices charged by the MLSE to see TFC? Ticket prices have went up loads since year one and they continue to rise but people are still giving the MLSE their approval to go ahead and shaft us that little bit harder, it is crazy. I guess we should finally say enough is enough when we get to Leaf prices or perhaps we should ask to get shafted that a wee bit more just for fun? Paul B must love coming on here and reading about all the people who think the continuous price hikes are totally justified and also how everyone is happy with the amount they pay, the FO are bound to use this site as a testing ground to see peoples reactions. Hopefully we can all manage to keep it up and we can see the prices raise once again next year, that would be pretty sweet, well for the MLSE anyway.

canadian_bhoy
12-29-2009, 11:28 PM
I'm not a fan of the price increases, nor the jacked prices for matched like the Real Madrid friendly.

Sadly, the only thing that gets noticed is non-renewal of season tickets. Which hurts both the fan and the club.

I know TFC announced a high renewal rate, but I know of a lot of day one hardcore fans that took a pass on their seats for the upcoming season. Another season of futility at these prices and people will walk.

I hope that they will maintain this years pricing or even reduce it for the 2011 season - but of course want the club to thrive.

Toronto Ruffrider
12-30-2009, 12:57 AM
If asked, I'm sure the FO would cite the expansion of BMO, the installation of a grass pitch, and the signing of Julian de Guzman as reasons why ticket prices went up again. Of course, I don't want to start a debate regarding the sources of revenue (i.e. the transfer of Mo Edu) which may have been applied to any of the above expenses. What I would like to note is that MLSE will raise ticket prices if the justification is there. If the MLS salary cap were to be raised significantly, for example, TFC ticket prices would naturally be raised accordingly.

As for the relationship between TFC ticket prices and those of other MLS teams, a comparison is only valid if supply and demand are equal. Comparing our ticket prices with those of NY, Dallas, or any other low-drawing team makes little sense because we don't play in a stadium that is routinely more than half empty. A team that sells only 8,000 seats in an 80,000-seat stadium, or 8,000 seats in a 20,000-seater for that matter, doesn't have the luxury to overcharge for tickets. TFC is the only team that has a high demand for tickets and a lower-capacity stadium, which is enough to explain any pricing disparities between our team and any other MLS team.

TOBOR !
12-30-2009, 02:05 AM
But why is demand so low in other mlse cities? you see, the threat here is that if MLSE doesnt pick up in other cities soon, this might have detrimental impact on TFC.... why is demand so low?

LOL - you said MLSE but meant MLS... Otherwise you may as well shout at the sky, mate.

torontocelt
12-30-2009, 07:46 AM
If asked, I'm sure the FO would cite the expansion of BMO, the installation of a grass pitch, and the signing of Julian de Guzman as reasons why ticket prices went up again. Of course, I don't want to start a debate regarding the sources of revenue (i.e. the transfer of Mo Edu) which may have been applied to any of the above expenses. What I would like to note is that MLSE will raise ticket prices if the justification is there. If the MLS salary cap were to be raised significantly, for example, TFC ticket prices would naturally be raised accordingly.

As for the relationship between TFC ticket prices and those of other MLS teams, a comparison is only valid if supply and demand are equal. Comparing our ticket prices with those of NY, Dallas, or any other low-drawing team makes little sense because we don't play in a stadium that is routinely more than half empty. A team that sells only 8,000 seats in an 80,000-seat stadium, or 8,000 seats in a 20,000-seater for that matter, doesn't have the luxury to overcharge for tickets. TFC is the only team that has a high demand for tickets and a lower-capacity stadium, which is enough to explain any pricing disparities between our team and any other MLS team.

With regards to the cost of the grass, what are the ticket prices of other teams in the league who play on grass? The Mo Edu money would definitely help pay for initial installation of the grass as would the RM game. Were we not told that the RM money was meant to be put towards the grass thus that is why we had high ticket prices? How many other teams in the league have a DP? For how many years have they had a DP? TFC got one in the second half of their third year, is this common? How much are ticket prices for other teams with DP's? Also what are the ticket prices of teams who have poor attendences, how much are they likely to generate in ticket sales a year? There are many factors when you compare ticket prices, way too much research for me but when it comes down to it we all know that MLSE are going to charge as much as they can while their is still interest in the team, this does not mean that we all have to come on and justify this as that is basically giving them the green light to screw you over even more.

Globetrotter
12-30-2009, 09:18 AM
Every time there's talk about prices, people become experts in economics, and every time I challenge them, they back down because they have nothing more than 1 high school economics class, or if lucky, econ 101 in some college or university that they had to take only because it was a mandatory class for their program that was completely different from economics.

The reality is: artificial price levels are set all the time. Artificial price levels are often preferred to market equilibrium where natural supply meets natural demand.

If you don't know economics, stop saying "supply = demand close thread, case closed". You're wrong.

Parkdale
12-30-2009, 09:24 AM
supply = demand close thread, case closed







:D
(All I know about Economics, is that I used to read their magazine at my barbers)

Oldtimer
12-30-2009, 09:32 AM
supply = demand close thread, case closed



So true (I have a degree in Economics BTW :D).

If anyone thinks that MLSE sets their prices based on a few comments on a message board, they are mistaken. Companies do much more careful testing of the market than that. So complaining won't accomplish anything, neither will saying the cost is in line with the Toronto market hurt anything. Like it or not, we've bitched for 2 years about ticket prices, and look how much Paul B. has taken our advice. :rolleyes: So it's time to drop the subject. MLSE will charge the maximum that they can, taking into account trying to preserve some of the atmosphere (I think they realize that's necessary for TFC, though not the Leafs) and with an eye on the long-term health of the team.

Parkdale
12-30-2009, 09:36 AM
and very few people will agree with me... but the first year's tickets were drastically undervalued.

They had no idea it would be a hotcake seller, so they priced it low.

TOBOR !
12-30-2009, 10:12 AM
the solution ? Move to New York or some other loser MLS city where the crowds are low and you'll be guaranteed a seat no matter how well your team is playing. Heck - I bet you can even get tickets to sit in KC's Cauldron if you wanted to.

With regards to complaining about the issue, look how much success Leaf fans have had.

pepher
12-30-2009, 10:15 AM
i like the little dinky section for visitors

I like the idea of putting visitors at BMO away up to second level...

redcard
12-30-2009, 10:24 AM
i like the little dinky section for visitors

and it seems as thought the 'supporters section' is not close to the field

SoccMan
12-30-2009, 10:26 AM
Same thing happens in the NHL, compare leaf tickets to many American NHL teams and you will see a big difference. There are some American NHL cities that give you parking, food and a beer with your ticket at a ticket price so low that it would not be enough to purchase one leaf ticket here in Toronto, again supply and demand.

TFCtoMUFC
12-30-2009, 10:44 AM
I find it funny that they think someone will pay 3000 to see them play.

TOBOR !
12-30-2009, 11:52 AM
In a nutshell, much of the success that TFC has had to date is in direct relation to it's affordability - and I mean that in comparison to the other major sporting ventures in the city. But, unlike the Leafs, the soccer market will not bear any price MLSE brings forth, so they have to be very careful to not charge too much too soon.

I'm sure they have armies of men and women in our communities as I type this, spying on us, taking note of which jersies we are wearing, which boards we post on, and as soon as they have the numbers they need to support putting up the ticket prices by a nickel, they'll do it... but should they do it prematurely, or excessively, they'll see their numbers drop.

rocker
12-30-2009, 12:02 PM
don't forget that TFC gets 93% of every ticket (7% of that goes to BMO Field for upkeep and to the city to pay down the loan on their share of the construction).

Of that 93%, something like 20% or more (I forget) goes to MLS to pay for the salaries and league expenses.

So the direct "take home" by TFC is far less than the face value. Red Bull would not be giving 7% to somebody else, and IF they fill 25000 seats they probably pull in as much revenue as TFC does with higher prices at BMO.

Carts
12-30-2009, 12:09 PM
TFC could have the cheapeat prices in the league, and someone would still find a way to come on here, rip MLSE, and say we're being ripped off...

Like Parkdale my care in this bitchfest is done...

I'm going to go and be a happy person, in this festive season...

Carts...

Toronto Ruffrider
12-30-2009, 12:20 PM
With regards to the cost of the grass, what are the ticket prices of other teams in the league who play on grass? The Mo Edu money would definitely help pay for initial installation of the grass as would the RM game. Were we not told that the RM money was meant to be put towards the grass thus that is why we had high ticket prices? How many other teams in the league have a DP? For how many years have they had a DP? TFC got one in the second half of their third year, is this common? How much are ticket prices for other teams with DP's? Also what are the ticket prices of teams who have poor attendences, how much are they likely to generate in ticket sales a year? There are many factors when you compare ticket prices, way too much research for me but when it comes down to it we all know that MLSE are going to charge as much as they can while their is still interest in the team, this does not mean that we all have to come on and justify this as that is basically giving them the green light to screw you over even more.

You missed the point of my post, and I don't want to re-open a debate regarding how much of the club's revenue went toward the above expenses. The point of my post was that, right or wrong, MLSE will use big-ticket expenses as an excuse to raise ticket prices. We're talking about an organisation that routinely hiked Leafs ticket prices because of the weak Canadian dollar. Did MLSE later drop the price of Leafs tickets when the dollar returned to parity? I think we both know the answer to that.

As for TFC, while it's true that expenses such as natural grass and a DP are not unique to our team, they are new expenses nonetheless. I don't like having to pay extra for what other teams get anyway, but I can see MLSE easily justifying a ticket-price increase based on such expenses. At the end of the day, as long as season ticket renewals are up around 95%, the FO can use any excuse imaginable to gouge us.

Parkdale
12-30-2009, 12:24 PM
Like Parkdale my care in this bitchfest is done...


http://www.patchplace.com/Id_rather_be_sailing_24180x.jpg

GhostKiller
12-30-2009, 03:16 PM
You guys are all morons. The reason why we pay what we do is because MLSE is a alien owned opperation. Not like Mexican alien, like planet Q alien. And they need to steadly raise the ticket price as a social exparement to see how much we will accept before publicaly chopping off Richard Peddies head. Because on planet Q the real sport is puching people to thier limits of sanity until someone gets beheaded. Duh!

Section 117
12-30-2009, 03:31 PM
I for one really don't care how much people pay to watch soccer in the US, Europe or even Tim Buck Two. It is what it is you don't like the price don't go.

I don't understand how every so often people bitch about the prices. I don't see anyone putting a gun to their heads and saying buy these tickets or else. If price is an issue go watch the CPSL or even better why didn't they go watch the Lynx before that was affordable....

Oh yeah I know why it wasn't the cool thing to do... grow up already

Sorry for the rant this topic drives me nuts

Section 117
12-30-2009, 03:35 PM
You missed the point of my post, and I don't want to re-open a debate regarding how much of the club's revenue went toward the above expenses. The point of my post was that, right or wrong, MLSE will use big-ticket expenses as an excuse to raise ticket prices. We're talking about an organisation that routinely hiked Leafs ticket prices because of the weak Canadian dollar. Did MLSE later drop the price of Leafs tickets when the dollar returned to parity? I think we both know the answer to that.

As for TFC, while it's true that expenses such as natural grass and a DP are not unique to our team, they are new expenses nonetheless. I don't like having to pay extra for what other teams get anyway, but I can see MLSE easily justifying a ticket-price increase based on such expenses. At the end of the day, as long as season ticket renewals are up around 95%, the FO can use any excuse imaginable to gouge us.


Here is an idea don't pay for it and then you wouldn't have to complain about it. By the way the grass was paid for by sale of Edu.

deltox
12-30-2009, 03:54 PM
everyone has their limits of how much they would pay to see something.

everyone wants to pay less.

lots of people people jumped on the boat in yr 1....cause the prices were very low.

if the prices were correct at the beginning it might not have been as popular.

once it gets to that limit, i wont renew. but until then ill just try to enjoy it.

Toronto Ruffrider
12-30-2009, 04:25 PM
Here is an idea don't pay for it and then you wouldn't have to complain about it. By the way the grass was paid for by sale of Edu.

That's pretty much exactly what I was hinting at in my post.:rolleyes:

Globetrotter
12-30-2009, 04:36 PM
I for one really don't care how much people pay to watch soccer in the US, Europe or even Tim Buck Two. It is what it is you don't like the price don't go.

Timbuktu. Fail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbuktu

TOBOR !
12-30-2009, 05:20 PM
^ pwned

CretanBull
12-30-2009, 05:25 PM
http://www.patchplace.com/Id_rather_be_sailing_24180x.jpg


& listening to yacht-rock....

LnNUSfbINUo

Pookie
12-30-2009, 06:37 PM
Every time there's talk about prices, people become experts in economics, and every time I challenge them, they back down because they have nothing more than 1 high school economics class, or if lucky, econ 101 in some college or university that they had to take only because it was a mandatory class for their program that was completely different from economics.

The reality is: artificial price levels are set all the time. Artificial price levels are often preferred to market equilibrium where natural supply meets natural demand.

If you don't know economics, stop saying "supply = demand close thread, case closed". You're wrong.

What's the saying... put 10 economists in a room and you'll get 11 different opinions?

Pookie
12-30-2009, 06:43 PM
everyone has their limits of how much they would pay to see something.

everyone wants to pay less.

lots of people people jumped on the boat in yr 1....cause the prices were very low.

if the prices were correct at the beginning it might not have been as popular.

once it gets to that limit, i wont renew. but until then ill just try to enjoy it.

While everyone has a limit, is your limit a dollar value or something else?

Here's the question of the day. What if you still pay the same price but end up seeing half the games?

Let's say you pay $1,000 now and that gets you 16 games.

Over time, the price of your same seat(s) doubles to $2,000.

You can either choose not to go or pay $1,000 and split your seats with a friend. You'll still be paying $1,000 but will only get 8 games.

That's the math MLSE is working. That comes right from the pages of the MLSE/TML textbook. On average, "a Leaf season ticket holder only gets to 6-8 games. They end up splitting them with friends." (unnamed MLSE employee, 2009).

James Oliphant
12-30-2009, 06:53 PM
Tim Buck Two.


Which is right next door to Cat Man Dew.

Shakes McQueen
12-30-2009, 07:05 PM
MLSE charge what the market will bear. If you want to lower ticket prices, find a way to get thousands of people to stay away from games for a prolonged period of time.

I get that people feel gouged when they are forced to pay double or triple the money for ostensibly the same product other people in other MLS markets get... but the "market" doesn't operate on principles of fairness, in that sense.

A Lakers ticket is far more expensive than a Memphis Grizzlies ticket. A Cowboys ticket is far more espensive than a Jacksonville Jaguars ticket. A TFC ticket costs more than a Red Bull ticket.

Supply and demand.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
12-30-2009, 07:09 PM
once it gets to that limit, i wont renew. but until then ill just try to enjoy it.

Exactly. And once MLSE sees that price ceiling being hit with a large contingent of ticket-holders, they will suddenly stop increasing prices - or do what the Ottawa Senators did recently, and slash them.

- Scott

Globetrotter
12-31-2009, 11:24 AM
Supply and demand.


Not going to keep harping on it, but it's not as simple as that. I don't need to have an explanation from anyone here, but if everything in the stadium was left to S&D, section 111-112 would not be ~$25 per ticket. There's an artificial price level set there, just as there is in many other areas. It's easy just to say "this goes up and that goes down", must be S&D, but there's whole lot of factors involved, and I'm not going to get into it on a forum again. :) Happy New Years. :scarf:

uncle p
12-31-2009, 03:00 PM
Which is right next door to Cat Man Dew.

I thought it was near Bum Fuck Nowhere!!!

rocker
12-31-2009, 03:17 PM
MLSE charge what the market will bear. If you want to lower ticket prices, find a way to get thousands of people to stay away from games for a prolonged period of time.

I get that people feel gouged when they are forced to pay double or triple the money for ostensibly the same product other people in other MLS markets get... but the "market" doesn't operate on principles of fairness, in that sense.

A Lakers ticket is far more expensive than a Memphis Grizzlies ticket. A Cowboys ticket is far more espensive than a Jacksonville Jaguars ticket. A TFC ticket costs more than a Red Bull ticket.

Supply and demand.

- Scott

yup... and nobody forces people to buy season's tickets.

i'm a huge raps fan but I don't go to many games. certainly I don't buy season's, cuz it's too much for me. but i attend a few games here and there (for a fraction of the cost of the cheapest raps season's) and I watch the other games on TV.

So if someone doesn't have the money for season's, there are cheaper options.

Buying season's tickets is essentially purchasing a monopoly on your seat for every single game... naturally that comes at a higher total price.

Purchasing a monopoly on a seat is quite a extreme purchase, when you think about it.

james
01-01-2010, 10:55 PM
NY Giants
NY Jets
NY Knicks
NY Rangers
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
NY Islanders
NY Yankees
NY Mets

and the list goes on and on with things to do in NYC. If you look at it at a country spectrum there is college sports on top of everything else and the list goes on and on.

In Canada Soccer means something within some pockets (ex. BC, Toronto and MTL) in the States it is an afterthought.


DVS to state the obvious again


ya but NY's population is like 5 times higher then many cities in the US that also have 4 or 5 pro sport teams and they support them all.

NY 8.3 million
NY metro area 19.1 Million

with a population that big they should have no problem supporting 1 Soccer team even with other sports in the city. Exspecially with New Yorks Multi cultural population.

james
01-01-2010, 11:01 PM
the one thing that pisses me off is how TFC have "premium games". How was New York a premium this year, you pay extra to see the worst team in MLS!!!!

London
01-02-2010, 07:12 AM
^^ MLS finalist= premium game

james
01-02-2010, 10:42 PM
^^ MLS finalist= premium game

ya but New York was lucky to even be finalists the year before. In MLS every team is so close, and just making a few changes in the off season can make a team go from top of the league to the bottom. There is no premium team in MLS. Not like in Europe where there is often the "Big 4" "Big 3" or "big 2 clubs" in ever league. There is no big teams here.

jvanpeebles
01-03-2010, 08:50 PM
I think the real concern for me is not that they won't have fans in the seats but the type of fan that will come to the games. I go to games now and have seen nothing like what I see at the tfc games from the fans. It is trully amazing. My father in law became a fan the second I took him to his first game based on what was going on in the fan zone alone. You don't see this anywhere else in Canada with any sport teams
The leafs still fill the seats but they are filled with corporate america not the die hard fan because they cannot trully afford games. All to often games are sold out but many seats are empty. If tfc continues down the avenues they are by forcing fans to purchase marlie tickets or raising the tickets prices to high they may still sell tickets but the heart and soul of the team will die off.
That is my real concern.

james
01-04-2010, 06:09 PM
I think the real concern for me is not that they won't have fans in the seats but the type of fan that will come to the games. I go to games now and have seen nothing like what I see at the tfc games from the fans. It is trully amazing. My father in law became a fan the second I took him to his first game based on what was going on in the fan zone alone. You don't see this anywhere else in Canada with any sport teams
The leafs still fill the seats but they are filled with corporate america not the die hard fan because they cannot trully afford games. All to often games are sold out but many seats are empty. If tfc continues down the avenues they are by forcing fans to purchase marlie tickets or raising the tickets prices to high they may still sell tickets but the heart and soul of the team will die off.
That is my real concern.

ya i worry that as well. Basicly price out the die hards.