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SweetOwnGoal
12-23-2009, 12:12 PM
This is single sourced, but plausible enough to report (http://www.24thminute.com/2009/12/robbo-rumours.html)

MartinUtd
12-23-2009, 12:17 PM
I'm conflicted on this one.

On one hand we have a great holding mid in Cronin and a half decent back up in Sanyang, but on the other hand its Robbo and I always saw him playing out his career here.

I don't think he's worth shipping for a 2nd round draft pick though. If he does end up going I'd love to see him pack up and head back to the UK instead of a league rival.

torfchamilton
12-23-2009, 12:22 PM
Unfortunately when you have a salary cap, $315 000 can be very useful, or whatever the amount might be with allocation back. I personally think they can do much better with that money than having Robbo. Preki probably does not see him in his plans and feels he can put his wages to better use.

ArmenJBX
12-23-2009, 12:23 PM
PLEASE LET THIS BE TRUE.

Geoff Cameron, Jonathan Bornstein, and Wilman Conde, here we come!

canadian_bhoy
12-23-2009, 12:34 PM
Here comes Mo's lump of Christmas coal.

Is this a dumping of salary or more of Mo's "go against me and you're gone" mentality...

TFCRegina
12-23-2009, 12:35 PM
As much as I'd like to see Robbo as part of our academy setup at some point, there exists a need to dump some of our midfield weight. Note the word dead was not put in front. I still think Robbo has a role to play in the team and I think a lot of the poor performance from our players last year was due to poor coaching (Brennan excepted). Trading him for a pick would not be a bad idea at all, as long as we could trade up for TB.

Roogsy
12-23-2009, 12:36 PM
I don't know how I feel about this. Robbo did not have a great year, but his pedigree is solid and with a slew of new players on this team coming in (again) where are we going to get our consistency from?

*sigh*

CretanBull
12-23-2009, 12:36 PM
If it were to come to pass, Toronto will have shed more than $900,000 in salary in the time after Preki’s appointment. With Nick Garcia likely to come of the books as well, TFC should have more than a million to spend during the winter window.

We used allocation money to be just under a million dollars over the salary, so all of this salary that we're shedding now is just to bring us down to the cap level. Unless there are changes with the new CBA, these moves won't allow us to spend very much at all.

Yohan
12-23-2009, 12:39 PM
the idea of Robbo in Shite Bull jersey makes me want to puke

Yohan
12-23-2009, 12:40 PM
We used allocation money to be just under a million dollars over the salary, so all of this salary that we're shedding now is just to bring us down to the cap level. Unless there are changes with the new CBA, these moves won't allow us to spend very much at all.
we dont know how much allocation money we have left from end of last season, plus how much more are we getting from our shitty performance last season

torfchamilton
12-23-2009, 12:45 PM
Here comes Mo's lump of Christmas coal.

Is this a dumping of salary or more of Mo's "go against me and you're gone" mentality...
Not sure if it is a salary dumping or a "you're gone" but look at Chivas' salaries, 9 players over $100K, and only 1 over $150K and TFC has 15 over $100K and 10 over $150K. I am pretty sure that it is Preki that feels he can get more bang for his buck


CHV Bornstein Jonathan D $ 9 0,000.00 $ 90,000.00
CHV Braun Justin F $ 2 0,100.00 $ 20,100.00
CHV Chijindu Chukwudi M $ 2 0,100.00 $ 20,100.00
CHV Conway Jon GK $ 3 6,000.00 $ 42,125.00
CHV Cuesta Yamith D $ 3 6,000.00 $ 36,000.00
CHV Curtin Jim D $ 1 09,204.20 $ 109,204.20
CHV Flores Jorge F $ 3 4,000.00 $ 34,000.00
CHV Galindo Maykel F $ 8 7,725.00 $ 87,725.00
CHV Harmse Kevin D-M $ 7 9,200.00 $ 79,200.00
CHV Jazic Ante D $ 9 0,000.00 $ 98,500.00
CHV Kennedy Dan GK $ 5 0,000.00 $ 50,000.00
CHV Kljestan Sacha M $ 1 70,000.00 $ 203,000.00
CHV Lahoud Michael M $ 3 6,000.00 $ 45,375.00
CHV Lillingston Eduardo F $ 9 6,000.00 $ 96,000.00
CHV Marsch Jesse M $ 1 65,000.00 $ 174,375.00
CHV Mayen Gerson M $ 2 0,100.00 $ 20,100.00
CHV Nagamura Paulo M $ 9 8,398.13 $ 98,398.13
CHV Padilla Jesus Andres F $ 3 6,000.00 $ 36,000.00
CHV Parker Lance GK $ 2 0,100.00 $ 20,100.00
CHV Razov Ante F $ 1 40,000.00 $ 147,750.00
CHV Santos Maicon F $ 8 4,000.00 $ 84,000.00
CHV Saragosa Marcelo D-M $ 1 20,000.00 $ 124,285.71
CHV Stepanovic Bojan M $ 1 20,000.00 $ 121,750.00
CHV Suarez Claudio D $ 7 5,000.00 $ 75,000.00
CHV Talley Carey D $ 1 28,256.00 $ 128,256.00
CHV Thomas Shavar D $ 1 04,500.00 $ 108,250.00
CHV Thornton Zach GK $ 5 2,500.00 $ 55,000.00
CHV Trujillo Mariano M $ 9 0,000.00 $ 90,000.00
CHV Victorine Sasha M $ 1 25,000.00 $ 135,000.00



TFC Attakora-Gyan Nana D $ 3 4,000.00 $ 34,000.00
TFC Barrett Chad F $ 1 95,000.00 $ 202,500.00
TFC Brennan Jim D $ 1 85,000.00 $ 193,250.00
TFC Cronin Sam M $ 3 6,000.00 $ 84,000.00
TFC de Guzman Julian M $ 9 09,600.00 $ 956,350.00

TFC DeRosario Dwayne M $ 3 57,000.00 $ 425,750.00
TFC Dichio Daniel F $ 1 20,000.00 $ 120,000.00
TFC Edwards Brian GK $ 3 9,600.00 $ 48,350.00
TFC Fellinga Lesly D $ 3 6,000.00 $ 36,000.00
TFC Frei Stefan GK $ 6 5,000.00 $ 120,000.00
TFC Gala Gabe D-M $ 2 0,100.00 $ 20,100.00
TFC Garcia Nick D $ 1 90,000.00 $ 198,750.00
TFC Gerba Ali F $ 1 44,996.00 $ 177,433.50
TFC Gomez Emmanuel D $ 3 5,700.00 $ 41,300.00
TFC Guevara Amado M $ 3 00,000.00 $ 323,750.00
TFC Ibrahim Fuad F $ 7 5,000.00 $ 108,000.00
TFC Robinson Carl M $ 3 00,000.00 $ 315,000.00
TFC Sayang Amadou D $ 3 4,008.00 $ 40,563.55
TFC Serioux Adrian D $ 1 19,070.00 $ 131,570.00
TFC Vitti Pablo M-F $ 2 88,000.00 $ 303,000.00
TFC White O'Brian F $ 3 6,000.00 $ 113,000.00
TFC Wynne Marvell D $ 5 7,000.00 $ 159,500.00

CretanBull
12-23-2009, 12:58 PM
we dont know how much allocation money we have left from end of last season, plus how much more are we getting from our shitty performance last season

I was told by a very reliable person in the media told that we were somewhere between $800k-$900k over the cap in allocation money. Its the main reason why last season was such a massive failure. Mo did an excellent job in season 2 gathering allocation money that put is in a unique position to win in season 3, we had a massive advantage (salary wise) over the rest of the league.

In terms of new allocation money, we shouldn't expect much...we were a mid table team that failed to make the play-offs by 1 point.

Yohan
12-23-2009, 01:07 PM
I was told by a very reliable person in the media told that we were somewhere between $800k-$900k over the cap in allocation money. Its the main reason why last season was such a massive failure. Mo did an excellent job in season 2 gathering allocation money that put is in a unique position to win in season 3, we had a massive advantage (salary wise) over the rest of the league.
yes i know this... but we never did figure out just how much allocation money Mo scraped together, and how much is still left over. i don't think Mo spent all that allocation money just on salary. surely there has to be some leftover?


In terms of new allocation money, we shouldn't expect much...we were a mid table team that failed to make the play-offs by 1 point.
anyone have any clue exactly how much each team gets for allocation based upon standings?

CretanBull
12-23-2009, 01:14 PM
yes i know this... but we never did figure out just how much allocation money Mo scraped together, and how much is still left over. i don't think Mo spent all that allocation money just on salary. surely there has to be some leftover?

I think that we can assume that it was all spent, the difference between JDG's pro-rated contract and value of Dichio's pro-rated contract had to be made up somehow. Any allocation money that carries over from year to year is invested in DeRo's contract (he's making about $600k).

CoachGT
12-23-2009, 01:20 PM
I don't know how I feel about this. Robbo did not have a great year, but his pedigree is solid and with a slew of new players on this team coming in (again) where are we going to get our consistency from?

*sigh*

Personally, I wonder how much of Cronin's good year came from Robbo's influence in the room and on the training pitch. I believe there was something there, but how much I couldn't say. Robbo didn't have a great year, but I feel more confident with him available, perhaps for less than $315k, than I do without him in the lineup. His attitude and professionalism are nothing but a help to the developing players on the team.

bee dubya
12-23-2009, 01:26 PM
As much as I'd like to see Robbo as part of our academy setup at some point, there exists a need to dump some of our midfield weight. Note the word dead was not put in front. I still think Robbo has a role to play in the team and I think a lot of the poor performance from our players last year was due to poor coaching (Brennan excepted). Trading him for a pick would not be a bad idea at all, as long as we could trade up for TB.

I get the sense that Robbo would sooner coach back home. I think he'll make the move behind the bench sooner than later but I don't think it will be in MLS.

Yohan
12-23-2009, 01:33 PM
if I was a speculating man, I think Robbo will want to find out if he still has what it takes to play in MLS, or even Championship/League One. 33 is old, but not that old in MLS, esp at DM position

though he has a lot invested in Toronto with family and house here... he might just say fuck it and retire and tell mo to piss off

Oblio2
12-23-2009, 01:33 PM
I hope Robbo doesnt go but if he does, I hope the Robbo haters on here eventually realise what he did for this team and how important he is

v00d00daddy
12-23-2009, 01:36 PM
I don't think Robbo has much left to offer so if we can get something for him...better to do it now, rather than waiting until he's got no value or decides to leave at the end of his contract.

That being said, it would all depend on how much of his salary NYRB would expect TFC to pay.

FluSH
12-23-2009, 01:37 PM
Please tell me this ain't so...

Boris
12-23-2009, 01:39 PM
if I was a speculating man, I think Robbo will want to find out if he still has what it takes to play in MLS, or even Championship/League One. 33 is old, but not that old in MLS, esp at DM position

though he has a lot invested in Toronto with family and house here... he might just say fuck it and retire and tell mo to piss off

if im not mistaken his family is back home.

His major sacrifice for Toronto was retiring from Wales.

JDG
12-23-2009, 01:43 PM
I don't want to see him go. Even more, I don't want to see him on an opposing side.
He's a valuable asset who suffered (I think) from the lockeroom rifts last year.
He's a solid player with more of an upside than down. He has his deficencies to be sure, but he is a real asset to this team.

SweetOwnGoal
12-23-2009, 01:47 PM
we dont know how much allocation money we have left from end of last season, plus how much more are we getting from our shitty performance last season

Using last year’s numbers, and assuming Robbo and Garcia are gone, TFC is currently sitting on a $1,607,566.55 cap hit, without any allocation factored in. The MLS cap is $2.3 million. So, even without an increase in the cap or factoring in allocation Toronto will have about $700,000 to spend.

v00d00daddy
12-23-2009, 01:47 PM
Guys....IF the rumour is true and accurate...what does it say about Robbo's value.

A second round pick and TFC have to pick up some of his salary is what is being suggested.

Now...if this is what he's worth to NYRB does it really make sense that we keep him for another year, get nothing for him, AND pay him 300k+?

All this after a horribile season.

It's a pretty easy decision for me....then again I've never liked his game.

SweetOwnGoal
12-23-2009, 01:51 PM
I was told by a very reliable person in the media told that we were somewhere between $800k-$900k over the cap in allocation money. Its the main reason why last season was such a massive failure. Mo did an excellent job in season 2 gathering allocation money that put is in a unique position to win in season 3, we had a massive advantage (salary wise) over the rest of the league.

In terms of new allocation money, we shouldn't expect much...we were a mid table team that failed to make the play-offs by 1 point.

TFC was about $300-400 over the cap in 2009. Remember that GA players don't count....

Dirk Diggler
12-23-2009, 01:56 PM
Please let this be true ... the constant roster turnover is getting a bit annoying but so far, we have not lost any players that were worth keeping anyways (well aside from Guevera but his loss was pretty much unavoidable).

TFCtoMUFC
12-23-2009, 01:59 PM
First Guevara, then Vitti, now it seems Robbo, hopefully Barrett, Gerba, Brennan and Garcia aren't far behind. Preki definitely has an idea or trick up his sleeve that seems to involve an overhaul.

ArmenJBX
12-23-2009, 02:10 PM
Toronto FC lineup 2010

----------------------------Stefan Frei-----------------------------------
---Geoff Cameron---Wilman Conde---Nana Attakora---Jonathan Bornstein---
--------------------Sam Cronin-----Julian de Guzman----------------------
-----Dwayne De Rosario----------------------------Sacha Kljestan---------
------------------Luca Toni-------------O'Brian White---------------------

CoachGT
12-23-2009, 02:11 PM
If you think back to Mo's comments at the start of all this, he suggested that four or five bodies would be moving, but that he'd be trying to keep the rest together. We've seen three, so there may not be many more, unless Preki does a complete housecleaning. And that would go against what Mo has already said (and presumably pitched to the MLSE board).

twistedchinaman
12-23-2009, 02:13 PM
Please let this be true ... the constant roster turnover is getting a bit annoying but so far, we have not lost any players that were worth keeping anyways (well aside from Guevera but his loss was pretty much unavoidable).


This is time to unload the dead weight, and let's hope the surgery is total, final and complete. Robbo has been an anchor (and I don't mean the "base" of the team -- I mean a baby grand piano tied to the team's back. Sorry Robbo darling...it's true), but what can he offer the Red Craps? (And not experience...)

Oldtimer
12-23-2009, 02:17 PM
Would prefer to see Robbo stay. Even the thought of him playing for New Jersey makes me ill. He still has a lot to offer.

About salaries: Chivas' low, low salaries don't only reflect what may be Preki's preferences, but also those of the club. They tend to play the Mexican team's reserves in the MLS side, or pick up Mexican-American players for Chivas USA. These players are not league-breakers, and don't earn much.

Oldtimer
12-23-2009, 02:20 PM
About allocations: Traditionally, teams missing the playoffs get an allocation. That would add a couple of thousand to the pile, regardless of whatever new roster moves are made. Last year, the league gave a general allocation to all of the teams, as well (effectively raising the cap).

Stryker
12-23-2009, 02:22 PM
This is time to unload the dead weight, and let's hope the surgery is total, final and complete. Robbo has been an anchor, but what can he offer the Red Craps? (And not experience...)

I love Robinson the person but hate him as a player at this point. Age is catching up with him and we saw fewer and fewer of his hard sliding tackles that made him great in his first 2 seasons and got more and more turnovers instead.
Preki is a posession coach and that means Robbo's out.
Look for Jimmy to retire next.
Good moves for the team IMO.

Yeoman
12-23-2009, 02:51 PM
all i care about that post is how it said that garcia might be as well
he was junk all season

jloome
12-23-2009, 02:59 PM
This is single sourced, but plausible enough to report (http://www.24thminute.com/2009/12/robbo-rumours.html)

This is not sourced at all. A source is a named individual, not a rumour you've heard from a single person.

If this is from an anonymous source, the ethical thing would be to indicate why that person is reliable, i.e. a source with one of the clubs, a source with the league etc., so that people have some reason to suspect it might actually happen.

Parkdale
12-23-2009, 03:00 PM
This is not sourced at all. A source is a named individual, not a rumour you've heard from a single person.

If this is from an anonymous source, the ethical thing would be to indicate why that person is reliable, i.e. a source with one of the clubs, a source with the league etc., so that people have some reason to suspect it might actually happen.


journo battle! -- Round one!

ManUtd4ever
12-23-2009, 04:10 PM
If there is any validity to this speculation, it is bittersweet. I love Robbo because he has served as the greatest field general in TFC history. Unfortunately, he is also in the twilight of his career and unless he would be willing to return at a reduced salary, which is unlikely, 315K can definitely be spent more wisely to shore up the backline or to sign a bonafide striker...

ensco
12-23-2009, 04:10 PM
The surprising thing would be if Robbo returns.

Cronin and Serioux are much cheaper, you can play JDG in that spot.....

We desperately need cap space for wingers and the backline, something like this pretty much has to happen.

I doubt Robbo would stay for a big pay cut. He'd just leave.

Section 117
12-23-2009, 04:16 PM
Keep Robo get rid of Jimmy and Garcia and we save just as much salary. Plus then Dero would be the captain.

Robo is class act on and off the field. We would be losing one of TFC's finest players if he leaves.

canadian_bhoy
12-23-2009, 04:39 PM
I find it funny that Robbo was tweeting about the mistreatment of Dichio during that whole saga - and now Mo wants to punt him off for a bag of hockey pucks.

Is this really about money? Or is it more likely that Mo is once again getting rid of a dissenting voice towards his five year plan?

remember when the whole Dichio thing started and people just thought he was hurt/old - but it actually turned out to be a whole lot more than that?

This has the same stench.

Whoop
12-23-2009, 05:14 PM
What if Robbo doesn't want to report?

Would he just retire?

Then what Mo?

But in reality, Robbo is making too much money for this team.

Hitcho
12-23-2009, 05:27 PM
I find it funny that Robbo was tweeting about the mistreatment of Dichio during that whole saga - and now Mo wants to punt him off for a bag of hockey pucks.

Is this really about money? Or is it more likely that Mo is once again getting rid of a dissenting voice towards his five year plan?

remember when the whole Dichio thing started and people just thought he was hurt/old - but it actually turned out to be a whole lot more than that?

This has the same stench.

I'm worried you might be right Mike, only Mo being the savvy fucker that he is will have learned a lesson and will blame this one on Preki not wanting Robbo in his first team plans, so Mo "had to ship him, because, looook, I dinnae get invovled in the dressing room or wi' the team choices".

I think we should keep Robbo for sure. He's the key to getting the best out of JDG for me. Someone posted that Cronin is a great DCM. I can't really remember seeing him play there much (if at all) last season. Sanyang is way too raw. And we do NOT want JDG as a holding mid in this league, that would be a complete waste of his salary.

I'd ship Garcia in a heart beat and Amado and Vitti were kind of inevitable in the circumstances, but we don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water here. Robbo should stay for his final season, as should Jimmy B. If we can get them both on lower salaries then great, they might take that. But Robbo is class and a lot of last season's loss of form is down to poor coaching, lack of tactical nous from the staff and apparent dressing room disharmony in my book.

Robbo would be huge for us this season if he got his early TFC form back and had JDG in front of him. In seasons 1 and 2 Robbo won the ball with minimal fuss and played simple, short passes forward to get us going again. You hardly noticed him he did it so well. Last season, he suddenly started bombing forward and trying Hollywood passes and long shots. And he looked like shit. Only reason I can think of is he was given crap coaching and instructions (Wynne has said at the pub crawls that he qas just told to run forward a lot last season - so what was Robbo told?!). Robbo's a seasoned international and not likely to suddenly forget how to play his game. If he is allowed to play his natural game again, he'd be great for us.

ensco
12-23-2009, 06:11 PM
Old Striker says Preki is Michael Corleone.

"I know it was you Robbo. You broke my heart. You broke my heart!"

TFCtoMUFC
12-23-2009, 06:16 PM
Robbo is essentially worth nothing to us when he is a substitute at best. He is expensive and was awesome when we used him but his time here is up. Cronin and Sanyang make way less, are younger and better. Robbo, Garcia, Brennan, Barrett. Those 4 guys clear tons of room if we can get rid of them. Preki has something up his sleeve, and I think it comes in the way of an offensive mid or winger. Paging Sacha Kljestan, Mr Sacha Kljestan.

MUFC_Niagara
12-23-2009, 06:38 PM
This is time to unload the dead weight, and let's hope the surgery is total, final and complete. Robbo has been an anchor (and I don't mean the "base" of the team -- I mean a baby grand piano tied to the team's back. Sorry Robbo darling...it's true), but what can he offer the Red Craps? (And not experience...)

How can you say he can't offer experience? This hatred of Robbo and what he has done for our team is comical. You wonder if these people are part of the "get drunk and party all game" contingent.

Shakes McQueen
12-23-2009, 07:18 PM
This is not sourced at all. A source is a named individual, not a rumour you've heard from a single person.

If this is from an anonymous source, the ethical thing would be to indicate why that person is reliable, i.e. a source with one of the clubs, a source with the league etc., so that people have some reason to suspect it might actually happen.

Haha, this is the first thing I noticed. And I've never heard of "plausibility" being used as a metric for whether it's responsible to report something.

- Scott

kelzag
12-23-2009, 07:50 PM
I'm worried you might be right Mike, only Mo being the savvy fucker that he is will have learned a lesson and will blame this one on Preki not wanting Robbo in his first team plans, so Mo "had to ship him, because, looook, I dinnae get invovled in the dressing room or wi' the team choices".

I think we should keep Robbo for sure. He's the key to getting the best out of JDG for me. Someone posted that Cronin is a great DCM. I can't really remember seeing him play there much (if at all) last season. Sanyang is way too raw. And we do NOT want JDG as a holding mid in this league, that would be a complete waste of his salary.

I'd ship Garcia in a heart beat and Amado and Vitti were kind of inevitable in the circumstances, but we don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water here. Robbo should stay for his final season, as should Jimmy B. If we can get them both on lower salaries then great, they might take that. But Robbo is class and a lot of last season's loss of form is down to poor coaching, lack of tactical nous from the staff and apparent dressing room disharmony in my book.

Robbo would be huge for us this season if he got his early TFC form back and had JDG in front of him. In seasons 1 and 2 Robbo won the ball with minimal fuss and played simple, short passes forward to get us going again. You hardly noticed him he did it so well. Last season, he suddenly started bombing forward and trying Hollywood passes and long shots. And he looked like shit. Only reason I can think of is he was given crap coaching and instructions (Wynne has said at the pub crawls that he qas just told to run forward a lot last season - so what was Robbo told?!). Robbo's a seasoned international and not likely to suddenly forget how to play his game. If he is allowed to play his natural game again, he'd be great for us.

Hitcho....thank you for being a voice of reason in an often-time irrational place.

Robbo wants to stay in Toronto. He loves it here and so does his family. He has pride and passion wearing the TFC badge and unquestionable integrity.

Sadly, that same integrity comes across as dissent to narcissistic autocrats and now we have these rumours of his impending trade.

How quickly TFC (and some fans for that matter) forget what he's done for the club, but then again, these are the same individuals who were looking for a fast, quiet exit from Dichio as well.

I personally think a Robbo- JDG combo in the mid would be a winning formula, but what do I know......:rolleyes:

v00d00daddy
12-23-2009, 08:00 PM
How can you say he can't offer experience? This hatred of Robbo and what he has done for our team is comical. You wonder if these people are part of the "get drunk and party all game" contingent.

Almost as comical as the love for Robbo.......almost.

v00d00daddy
12-23-2009, 08:02 PM
How quickly TFC (and some fans for that matter) forget what he's done for the club, but then again


ok...so i must have forgotten...

tell me what he's done for the club.

spell it out for me.

jazzy
12-23-2009, 08:15 PM
We used allocation money to be just under a million dollars over the salary, so all of this salary that we're shedding now is just to bring us down to the cap level. Unless there are changes with the new CBA, these moves won't allow us to spend very much at all.
So true! I don,t see great changes, just a team that tries to play a tight defensive game with role players, thats why I unfortunately for me, anyways, Barrett stays and any other lesser talents with big effort and all heart talent (sic), as long as they do as they are told......god help us

MUFC_Niagara
12-23-2009, 08:25 PM
Hitcho....thank you for being a voice of reason in an often-time irrational place.

Robbo wants to stay in Toronto. He loves it here and so does his family. He has pride and passion wearing the TFC badge and unquestionable integrity.

Sadly, that same integrity comes across as dissent to narcissistic autocrats and now we have these rumours of his impending trade.

How quickly TFC (and some fans for that matter) forget what he's done for the club, but then again, these are the same individuals who were looking for a fast, quiet exit from Dichio as well.

I personally think a Robbo- JDG combo in the mid would be a winning formula, but what do I know......:rolleyes:

Brains and beauty!

Shakes McQueen
12-23-2009, 08:25 PM
So true! I don,t see great changes, just a team that tries to play a tight defensive game with role players, thats why I unfortunately for me, anyways, Barrett stays and any other lesser talents with big effort and all heart talent (sic), as long as they do as they are told......god help us

A little dramatic?

The off-season is long from over, he hasn't added a single player yet, and I'm at a loss for how you see a "team that tries to play a tight defensive game with role players" when we haven't played a single game yet, and the only confirmed move he has made is not picking up Guevara again (a guy whose position is likely going to be played by JDG).

Never mind the fact that Robbo is a "role player" on this team - he's no flashy talent.

I don't agree with people who say Robbo has done nothing for this team. But I also don't get the people who canonize Robbo like he was the best defender on this team. He's a CDM who plays decent defense, and who can't pass or link up play to save his life. I think he has a use with this club, but not at $300k per season, and not as a regular starter.

I think a certain contingent of folks seriously over-romanticize a few players on this team - Brennan and Robbo being two of them.

- Scott

James17930
12-23-2009, 09:33 PM
I don't know if he'd even go to New York or anywhere else.

I think he'd just retire.

Oldtimer
12-23-2009, 09:36 PM
I think a certain contingent of folks seriously over-romanticize a few players on this team - Brennan and Robbo being two of them.

- Scott
Aren't we being a little fickle?

In 2007, people on this board called Jimmy B. "Iron Man" and noted how he kept on soldiering on no matter what. In 2007, people loved Robbo, and many pointed out his subtle passing.

Now, 2 years on, we have poor coaching from a substitute coach, and for one solitary season these players don't play well (actually, except for DeRo and Frei, none of our players played all that well). All of a sudden, these two players are "bums?"

Now lets think about things here. Poor coaching can make a Messi look like crap. Just look at the disaster that is the French national team if you want a perfect example. Great, talented players, and an idiot coach who makes them almost miss the WC, where they squeeze in because of poor refereeing.

So why not let Preki decide if these players can fit into his system? If they can, and TFC performs well, all of a sudden these players will be "key parts of the squad." If they don't fit in, it's not necessarily because they aren't any good. Look how well Cunningham has played since he left John Carver's team.

ag futbol
12-23-2009, 09:55 PM
^ Yes, the name of the game has changed. As TFC has evolved and other players now have better parts around them, its started to shine a pretty unflattering light on some people’s abilities. At the same time, the teams we play know a lot more about the players on our roster so the weak links get exposed more often.

Sometime between year 1 and year 3, Jim Brennan seriously lost a step. Add to that, he’s never been very defensively responsible. He commits stupid fouls (and cards), is often caught far out of position, and his flank is a practical super-highway of crosses flying into the box because JB can’t close the space.

I have serious doubts that Preki will somehow instil in Jim Brennan the defensive ability he’s never had or the speed he’s lost. As for Robinson, the writing is on the wall, he’s Guevara part II, too expensive relative to what he’s providing the team in a position where we have lots of cheap depth. Add in the severe limitations to his passing ability and age, you have a good candidate to be moved.

Shakes McQueen
12-23-2009, 10:01 PM
Aren't we being a little fickle?

In 2007, people on this board called Jimmy B. "Iron Man" and noted how he kept on soldiering on no matter what. In 2007, people loved Robbo, and many pointed out his subtle passing.

Now, 2 years on, we have poor coaching from a substitute coach, and for one solitary season these players don't play well (actually, except for DeRo and Frei, none of our players played all that well). All of a sudden, these two players are "bums?"

Now lets think about things here. Poor coaching can make a Messi look like crap. Just look at the disaster that is the French national team if you want a perfect example. Great, talented players, and an idiot coach who makes them almost miss the WC, where they squeeze in because of poor refereeing.

So why not let Preki decide if these players can fit into his system? If they can, and TFC performs well, all of a sudden these players will be "key parts of the squad." If they don't fit in, it's not necessarily because they aren't any good. Look how well Cunningham has played since he left John Carver's team.

I'm not sure who you're talking about, but it isn't me. I'm also not sure why you quoted "bums", because I never called either of them that.

I said when it comes to Robbo, people have a tendency to either grossly over-value his talent and contribution to this team, or proclaim that he's a shitty waste of space who has done nothing for this team.

I like both Robbo and Jimmy - and I thought Jimmy was an "iron man", in the sense that he played through several injuries. That doesn't change the fact that myself and others think his game regressed last season, and he should be relegated to the bench.

I think Robbo is a great guy, and I think he provides some invaluable leadership. I also explicitly stated that I think he has great defensive skills. What I said, is that the guy can't link up play, and he should therefore have a minimized role if we are to get better as a team.

I'm not being fickle in the slightest. If anything, I'm being nuanced, because I recognize up-front that Robbo has good qualities as a player, and bad ones.

- Scott

Pookie
12-23-2009, 10:03 PM
I find it funny that we pull another stinker of a season and rumours of dressing room discontent abound. Some players are let go and some are quick to dismiss it all as "salary dumping"?

I liked some of Robinson's passion on the pitch but he was also in the line up for many of our late game defeats through the past couple of seasons. Evidently his "heart" didn't translate into either leadership or results.

I mean no disrespect by this... good luck wherever you end up.

TFCtoMUFC
12-23-2009, 10:05 PM
I find it funny that we pull another stinker of a season and rumours of dressing room discontent abound. Some players are let go and some are quick to dismiss it all as "salary dumping"?

I liked some of Robinson's passion on the pitch but he was also in the line up for many of our late game defeats through the past couple of seasons. Evidently his "heart" didn't translate into either leadership or results.

I mean no disrespect by this... good luck wherever you end up.

I think the dressing room stuff stems from CC and DeGuz. Someone has a case of the should-be's.

Shakes McQueen
12-23-2009, 10:14 PM
You're blaming the locker room issues on a guy who was only with us for like five games?

- Scott

Oldtimer
12-24-2009, 09:33 AM
The issue is that people are calling for Robbo's and Jimmy's heads based on last season. Give Preki a chance to coach these guys, and you may see something quite different.

Super
12-24-2009, 09:42 AM
In Preki I trust. He'll know who is worth keeping.

Pookie
12-24-2009, 09:42 AM
You're blaming the locker room issues on a guy who was only with us for like five games?

- Scott

I would put every late game collapse and half assed effort under the term "locker room" issues. This culture didn't begin with a 5-0 loss in NY.

Robinson was certainly a part of those throughout 2008.

TFCtoMUFC
12-24-2009, 10:09 AM
You're blaming the locker room issues on a guy who was only with us for like five games?

- Scott

Not solely but if the problems are guys not getting along I can totally see it stemming from a guy that acts like he should be in Europe and a coach that can't deal with anybody.

CoachGT
12-24-2009, 10:34 AM
Locker room issues aside (which I'm not sure that the main antagonists are the key people mentioned in this thread), Robbo has been the guy who has taken control of the locker room prior to this year. Or at least, so said many of the players, the same ones who said, in year 1 and year 2, that there was a great chemistry on this team, something that apparently soured in year 3. But that isn't something that is known outside of the locker room, only by the players themselves and the staff working in and around the room.

Robbo has played fairly consistently up to this past season. His onfield contributions, as a holding (defensive) mid, his subtle (and not so subtle) passing and his leadership on the pitch. I still believe he played a mentoring role with the Gambians and Cronin (again, something I'll never know for sure and have no proof of).

He has made indications of his future in a coaching role, somewhere. He has shown his support and love of TFC in many ways,including the decision to stay here last year with what has been reported as a salary cut. He retired from his national team to stay with TFC (perhaps not the only reason, but at least part of it). He's in the 'winding down' portion of his career.

I'd love to see Robbo remain with TFC in a modified role. I think his contributions and his experience remain valuable. And I'd like to see him keep the Toroto area as home - he's a great ambassador to bring players from elsewhere here. I think this team would be worse off without him, but understand that a decision may already be made.

Pookie
12-24-2009, 11:00 AM
Coach - I respect what you are saying but with Brennan also taking on a similar role (playing out his last season), you have to look at the combined cap hit of close to $500k for both of those guys to be on the roster.

That's 20% of a $2.5M cap in two players who will play reduced roles.

That doesn't make much sense not to mention that Robinson takes up an international player slot. We only have a set number of those.

Derko
12-24-2009, 11:03 AM
Robbo is essentially worth nothing to us when he is a substitute at best. He is expensive and was awesome when we used him but his time here is up. Cronin and Sanyang make way less, are younger and better. Robbo, Garcia, Brennan, Barrett. Those 4 guys clear tons of room if we can get rid of them. Preki has something up his sleeve, and I think it comes in the way of an offensive mid or winger. Paging Sacha Kljestan, Mr Sacha Kljestan.


Kljestan won't play in Toronto, Garcia can go, Brennan can be a bench player, Barrett a bench player, Robbo to play behind JDG, and you get the most out of JDG by doing that. Break-up plays and a short pass up to JDG and then attack. Seems simple doesn't it, 2009 season was a cock-up from the coaching, not players. imo

Happy Christmas

CoachGT
12-24-2009, 11:09 AM
Coach - I respect what you are saying but with Brennan also taking on a similar role (playing out his last season), you have to look at the combined cap hit of close to $500k for both of those guys to be on the roster.

That's 20% of a $2.5M cap in two players who will play reduced roles.

That doesn't make much sense not to mention that Robinson takes up an international player slot. We only have a set number of those.

Didn't say that he has to stay at the same salary. Robbo's salary is far too high for the role that he may end up with in the coming year. I get that. But I'm not sure Brennan bring exactly the same skills. I'd also expect Brennan to take a salary reduction for a changed role.

Brennan still has value as a sub, whether in the back (on the outside) or on the wing. I don't see Jimmy ever playing the role of centre back or centre (holding) mid. Robbo plays in the middle, whether midfield or at the back line (where he has looked solid in a handful of games). I can see value in him as a sub or in helping keep JDG in a more attacking role.

And I'm expecting the cap to change for the better next year (hoping the new CBA works out). If so, then hopefully the hit to the cap isn't quite as significant. And with more Canadian talent in the mix, and a few more international spots than many other teams have (even if only temporary) I think we're okay there, too.

Hitcho
12-24-2009, 11:59 AM
Robbo was suddenly trying to play a game that isn;t natural to him - getting forward, long passes, shots from outside the box. No shit he looked like crap. That's down to tow things - poor coaching and bad instructions.

Let him sit in front of the back four, win the ball without fuss and make simple, short passes sideways and forwards to get the team going forward and he'll suddenly like the best DCM in the league again, which frankly I still think he is - IF he's allowed to play his DCM game.

And to boot, that would give JDG free licence to get forward and run the game for us offensively. Otherwise, what are we paying him DP money for?

TFCtoMUFC
12-24-2009, 12:01 PM
Kljestan won't play in Toronto, Garcia can go, Brennan can be a bench player, Barrett a bench player, Robbo to play behind JDG, and you get the most out of JDG by doing that. Break-up plays and a short pass up to JDG and then attack. Seems simple doesn't it, 2009 season was a cock-up from the coaching, not players. imo

Happy Christmas

Barrett, Brennan are too expensive for bench players. Getting rid of Fellinga was so stupid, he was a good cheap player that could come off the bench.

ManUtd4ever
12-24-2009, 12:09 PM
One thing is certain...I hope that Preki won't utilize JDG as a replacement in a defensive role or Robbo's departure will be counter productive. The only way this will benefit the club is if either Serioux or Cronin take Robbo's place and his 315K salary is allocated towards an offensive player player that can compliment JDG as an attacking midfielder...

CretanBull
12-24-2009, 12:16 PM
Barrett, Brennan are too expensive for bench players. Getting rid of Fellinga was so stupid, he was a good cheap player that could come off the bench.

Fellinga had ZERO fitness and by most accounts had no hustle in practice and didn't show any desire to get in shape.

CretanBull
12-24-2009, 12:18 PM
Robbo to play behind JDG, and you get the most out of JDG by doing that.

It's beyond me how people don't seem to understand this. People are down on Robbo for what he's not, but they overlook what he is and how he makes his teammates better.

v00d00daddy
12-24-2009, 12:57 PM
What is beyond me is why anyone would want a guy on the field that is so one dimensional.

To me it's a wasted spot on the field to have a guy doing nothing but trying to win balls.

Why is this acceptable?

Look at every other position and then look at all of the responsiblities that come along with that position.

Now look at the "defensive midfielder".

Some of you guys are talking as if all Robbo has to do is win balls and make a 4 foot pass to someone else to deal with it.

That is a huge waste. Basically you're saying that Robbo has to do half the job of what a defender does (because he doesn't really have to man mark) and none of the job of any of the other midfielders (because he doesn't have to make any kind of difficult decision with the ball). He's an extra defender without all the added responsiblity of an actual defender and an extra midfielder without ANY of the responsiblities of any other midfielder.

Fine..if that's what he's going to do then he should be paid accordingly. By that I mean he should make about as much as Gabe Gala (if not less).

On top of this some would suggest that he can be a mentor to other players. Pffffff...another joke. Why would any player listen to a guy who has such a limited skill set? What is he going to teach Sam Cronin?

Get rid of him and consider yourself lucky to get anything in return.

BTW...I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me all the great things that he's done for the club. (other than being a super duper nice guy at all of the off field pub events)

What has he done to make this club successful?

cue the: "If you don't know then there's no helping you response".

v00d00daddy
12-24-2009, 01:02 PM
It's beyond me how people don't seem to understand this. People are down on Robbo for what he's not, but they overlook what he is and how he makes his teammates better.

What is this?

Robbo was a part of 99% of TFC's last minute collapses. He's been a part of every shitty streak TFC have been a part of. Who has he made better?

Give an example. What have I overlooked. What is he? What does he do that is so bloody important?

HOW IN THE HELL DID HE WIN PLAYER OF THE YEAR TWO YEARS IN A ROW?

That's what the crux of this argument is for me. A bunch of people on this board have elevated him to great heights and are now being shown how wrong they were and they just can't admit it.

Derko
12-24-2009, 01:03 PM
Barrett, Brennan are too expensive for bench players. Getting rid of Fellinga was so stupid, he was a good cheap player that could come off the bench.

What little we saw of Fellinga, I quite liked, agreed!!!

Yohan
12-24-2009, 01:19 PM
In Preki I trust. He'll know who is worth keeping.
Let's give Preki a chance to see what he's going to do with the team.

Though at the rate that people want to get rid of players, we're just repeating same turnover rate in the locker room, again.

What is this?

Robbo was a part of 99% of TFC's last minute collapses. He's been a part of every shitty streak TFC have been a part of. Who has he made better?

Give an example. What have I overlooked. What is he? What does he do that is so bloody important?

HOW IN THE HELL DID HE WIN PLAYER OF THE YEAR TWO YEARS IN A ROW?

That's what the crux of this argument is for me. A bunch of people on this board have elevated him to great heights and are now being shown how wrong they were and they just can't admit it.
Honestly, I know you have a lot of good points and interesting thoughts, but your absolute hatred of anything remotely English style football and a bit warped sense of realities of MLS makes it hard for me to take your posts seriously

jloome
12-24-2009, 01:29 PM
Seconded. A good defensive midfielder has to cover the full width of the field in front of the defense so that he can cut off passing lanes and break down the other team's build-up movement. That's a tough role, an underappreciated role and one that is quite evidently misunderstood here.

Arguably, it's not a $300K role ever in MLS. But given that 90% of the league makes less than that, you can argue that in any circumstance for a role player.

Personally, I think Robbo ends out platooning with Sam Cronin next year. On days when we need a setback defense, Preki will use Robbo. On days when we need alternating box-to-box mids, he'll use Cronin. JDG plays either way.

It'll likely be more of the latter than the former, but is the extra salary worth it to have a utility playing Robbo also available to coach Cronin and Sanyang? Of course.

We have to look at the bigger picture.

Pookie
12-24-2009, 01:34 PM
It'll likely be more of the latter than the former, but is the extra salary worth it to have a utility playing Robbo also available to coach Cronin and Sanyang? Of course.

We have to look at the bigger picture.

Ok but if that is the big picture, is Robinson the best "coach" for Cronin and Sanyang?

Would he fit with Preki's style? Does he buy into the system?

It's a $300k cap hit and use of an international slot question.

jloome
12-24-2009, 01:39 PM
Ok but if that is the big picture, is Robinson the best "coach" for Cronin and Sanyang?

Would he fit with Preki's style? Does he buy into the system?

It's a $300k cap hit and use of an international slot question.

One which, unfortunately, we can't answer. As close as I can get, whilst being charitable to a player I respect and admire, is that he's in a probable rotation position.

AS a mentor, he must have enormous amounts to pass on, and I remember Cronin speaking early in the season about how much he was learning from him.

Is that worth, say, $160K on the cap and a slot? I dunno. Depends what else Preki wants to do. If he thinks we can be a two-way team all season, maybe Robinson is too expensive. But he'll have a hard time showcasing Sanyang for transfer if he doesn't have a role for him, and he plays the same role as Robbo (but bigger, faster, scarier.)

I don't think we'll have Sanyang past next season anyway, but that's another issue.

v00d00daddy
12-24-2009, 02:05 PM
Let's give Preki a chance to see what he's going to do with the team.

Though at the rate that people want to get rid of players, we're just repeating same turnover rate in the locker room, again.

Honestly, I know you have a lot of good points and interesting thoughts, but your absolute hatred of anything remotely English style football and a bit warped sense of realities of MLS makes it hard for me to take your posts seriously

fair enough. My hate is not for English football. It's for old English football. I hate the archaic kick and run game.....just like I hate the old Italian cattenaccio game. I hate un attractive soccer and that's what Robbo provides.

Also...I'm going to England in feb to watch 3-4 games so I can't hate it all that much. Lol

I just get really frustrated with all the love for a player whose game I've disliked since day one.

I'll chill out...promise...maybe

lol

bertal
12-24-2009, 10:22 PM
the idea of Robbo in Shite Bull jersey makes me want to puke

agreed, absolutely disgusting

Yohan
12-25-2009, 08:26 PM
fair enough. My hate is not for English football. It's for old English football. I hate the archaic kick and run game.....just like I hate the old Italian cattenaccio game. I hate un attractive soccer and that's what Robbo provides.

Also...I'm going to England in feb to watch 3-4 games so I can't hate it all that much. Lol

I just get really frustrated with all the love for a player whose game I've disliked since day one.

I'll chill out...promise...maybe

lol
i'd rather see a game like arsenal or barca style possession based game but...

if it's stupid, but it works, then it's not stupid.