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SweetOwnGoal
12-17-2009, 11:56 AM
Press release just came... (http://www.24thminute.com/2009/12/vitti-fellinga-also-cut.html)

Marco2K
12-17-2009, 11:57 AM
I guess this is good news. Vitti In. Somebody good In..lol

Kevvv
12-17-2009, 11:58 AM
Is this about his hair?

Lucky Strike
12-17-2009, 11:59 AM
Sky is blue: press release just came... :D

Seriously though, not a surprising move and long overdue.

Stryker
12-17-2009, 11:59 AM
Between Vitti and Guevara that's over $600,000 in salary. Then there's the salary cap raise that's coming. We should be getting some damn good players soon.

TFC_Junky
12-17-2009, 12:00 PM
where is the press release?

CoachGT
12-17-2009, 12:01 PM
Not a surprising move, but he is a talented player. Just not in the way that TFC really needs.

Best of luck to him going forward.

CretanBull
12-17-2009, 12:02 PM
Between Vitti and Guevara that's over $600,000 in salary. Then there's the salary cap raise that's coming. We should be getting some damn good players soon.

We were so far over the cap with allocation money that dropping these salaries probably doesn't give us much cap space....

TFC USA
12-17-2009, 12:03 PM
This can make room for Kevin Kyle, right? :D

Bye Vitti. You sucked titties here.

Keyman
12-17-2009, 12:03 PM
Between Vitti and Guevara that's over $600,000 in salary. Then there's the salary cap raise that's coming. We should be getting some damn good players soon.

We should, but probably won't. Quantity doesn't equal quality. One would have thought $300,000 would have got us a fantastic player, but then Pablo Vitti showed up.

Nodoubtguy
12-17-2009, 12:03 PM
I'm sadden by this.....I really think Vitti was just not used properly.

I guess our latin flair is gone now.....

Stryker
12-17-2009, 12:03 PM
We were so far over the cap with allocation money that dropping these salaries probably doesn't give us much cap space....
Doh! You're absolutely right I forgot about that.

Nodoubtguy
12-17-2009, 12:04 PM
Fellinga is gone too.....

Brooker
12-17-2009, 12:04 PM
oh pablo, we hardly knew ya.

good luck.


Fellinga is gone too.....

WHO?! :P

Parkdale
12-17-2009, 12:04 PM
Is this about his hair?


http://paxarcana.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/gong_show.jpg



speaking of getting cut after getting your hair cut..... LOMBARDO!

Stryker
12-17-2009, 12:06 PM
Fellinga is gone too.....
Really? Damn they're really cleaning house.

pekduck
12-17-2009, 12:07 PM
so DeRo will get a raise?

TFC_Junky
12-17-2009, 12:07 PM
wow, it's been a busy day... So Guevara is gone, Vitti's gone and Fellinga is gone now too. Gees, who will we have left, JDG and Frei?!

SweetOwnGoal
12-17-2009, 12:07 PM
where is the press release?

In my inbox. I'm sure it will be on the home page soon.



TORONTO FC ROSTER UPDATE

Toronto FC announced Thursday that the club has decided to not pick up the options on the following players for the 2010 MLS season; forward Pablo Vitti, midfielder Lesly Fellinga, and midfielder Amado Guevara. December 31 marks the end of their contracts with Toronto FC.
“After sitting with Preki, and the rest of the coaching staff, we have decided this is the direction the club would like to go,” said director of soccer Mo Johnston. “This leaves all players free to negotiate new deals with other clubs outside of MLS. We wish them all the best of luck in the future.”
Toronto FC technical staff will travel to the MLS Combine in Fort Lauderdale, Florida on January 8, before taking part in the MLS SuperDraft to be held in Philadelphia on January 14.
The team kicks off the 2010 MLS regular season on Saturday, March 27 against the Columbus Crew in Ohio.

Guajiro
12-17-2009, 12:07 PM
Press release just came...

Was it this press release?

http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3941809

Toronto FC announced Thursday that the club has decided to not pick up the options on the following players for the 2010 MLS season; forward Pablo Vitti, midfielder Lesly Fellinga, and midfielder Amado Guevara. December 31 marks the end of their contracts with Toronto FC. "After sitting with Preki, and the rest of the coaching staff, we have decided this is the direction the club would like to go," said director of soccer Mo Johnston. "This leaves all players free to negotiate new deals with other clubs outside of MLS. We wish them all the best of luck in the future."
Toronto FC technical staff will travel to the MLS Combine in Fort Lauderdale, Florida on January 8, before taking part in the MLS SuperDraft to be held in Philadelphia on January 14.
The team kicks off the 2010 MLS regular season on Saturday, March 27 against the Columbus Crew in Ohio.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------


So much hope, so little achieved.

TFC_Junky
12-17-2009, 12:09 PM
In my inbox. I'm sure it will be on the home page soon.

Thanks!

Stryker
12-17-2009, 12:10 PM
All three players are positions Van der Bergh can play. Coincidence?

Lucky Strike
12-17-2009, 12:12 PM
Fellinga is gone too.....

Really? That's unfortunate and somewhat surprising, I think he could have made a contribution here and looked at least promising. We didn't really get to see enough of him, IMHO.

CoachGT
12-17-2009, 12:13 PM
All three players are positions Van der Bergh can play. Coincidence?

Most likely

jloome
12-17-2009, 12:15 PM
Yeah, coincidence. He's a good player, but slowed by injuries and near the end of his career. Plus, he has a home in Dallas. I wouldn't be surprised if he retires, but if he stays on, it'll probably be closer to home.

All three of these guys have taken the knock for work ethic in their career already, Preki's a work ethic coach. He's not going to give you merit points for dribbling ability.

Lucky Strike
12-17-2009, 12:18 PM
Yeah, coincidence. He's a good player, but slowed by injuries and near the end of his career. Plus, he has a home in Dallas. I wouldn't be surprised if he retires, but if he stays on, it'll probably be closer to home.

All three of these guys have taken the knock for work ethic in their career already, Preki's a work ethic coach. He's not going to give you merit points for dribbling ability.

Not to try and put you on the spot, but when and under what circumstances? Guevara, I'm aware of, but Fellinga and Vitti? How did that come about?

Detroit_TFC
12-17-2009, 12:20 PM
Not sad about this, not even a little.

CretanBull
12-17-2009, 12:22 PM
Vitti has been called into question more than once...I can't recall anything being said about Fellinga (ultimately he's a bit player and Preki will want to fill out the roster with his own bit players)

MartinUtd
12-17-2009, 12:23 PM
Fellinga is gone too.....

Not a big loss, I never really understood the enthusiasm about the guy.

Shaughno
12-17-2009, 12:24 PM
I would have liked to see what Preki can do with Vitti and Fellinga, but whatever. Not upset in losing both of them, Vitti cost too much and it's too bad we couldn't get him at about half what he was making. Fellinga is so cheap, I see no reason to get rid of him... unless the club knows something we don't, which is quite likely LOL

tfcleeds
12-17-2009, 12:26 PM
Fare thee well, Lesley, we hardly knew ye...

Cashcleaner
12-17-2009, 12:29 PM
Vitti was nowhere near the level of skill and drive that so many believed he was. Don't get me wrong, he's an okay player and will likely he'll improve as long as he gets the minutes to do so, but he really wasn't worth the price and that's probably the best reason I can think of to let him go.

The big question: What about Garcia, now?

Carts
12-17-2009, 12:30 PM
Vitti never reached the value for his large contract... I'm glad the $$$ is now open to sign newcomers...

Lesley, I could hardly form an opinion...

Preki has MLS experience, and a lot of players respect him - so until he proves me otherwise, I'll respect his decisions...

Carts...

jloome
12-17-2009, 12:31 PM
Not to try and put you on the spot, but when and under what circumstances? Guevara, I'm aware of, but Fellinga and Vitti? How did that come about?

Fellinga stated himself in a RedNation Online interview that he was having a hard time getting match fit, and that the less technical, more physical aspect of MLS was really hard.Add that to the fact that a Eredivisie prospect can't get into a game with Haiti and that's my guess.

Vitti, I I might harsh on. But the guy only moves laterally most of the time. He exhibits great skill but no dynamism, no winning character. That usually goes hand in hand with a lousy work ethic.

Maybe "poor" work ethic is unfair, maybe a better term would be "insufficient."

DOMIN8R
12-17-2009, 12:34 PM
Once again, he was a player with tons of skill but no composure. He exhibited poor decision making under pressure.

Stryker
12-17-2009, 12:36 PM
Well this all would certainly open the door for a Bornstein trade. :D




















Wishful thinking.

BuSaPuNk
12-17-2009, 12:36 PM
Still good moves and not surprising. Vitti really couldn't show much while he was here. And with that size of contract it was better to move him on and Guevarra to open up some room.

Hopefully with a jump in the Cap number and the extra cash lying around now we can use that to lure in a great striker and a winger.

Nuvinho
12-17-2009, 12:38 PM
Hopefully with Preki in charge we'll have a full squad finally. The past 2 years, we have always had 21 to 22 players on the roster.

Gixmo
12-17-2009, 12:42 PM
If I wear Nick Garcia, I'd be visiting Metro for a fresh pair of huggies!

Sad to see Lesly, I think he had potential.. Pablo, unfortunatly, didn't deliver... His performance on the pitch was like having a really hot girlfriend, who didn't put out.. and no one likes blue balls..

Detroit_TFC
12-17-2009, 12:43 PM
I guess the question of whether Preki would be given latitude to change the squad is answered now.

TFC Cityboy
12-17-2009, 12:45 PM
Good riddance to Vitti- he's like Robinho at City - lots of flair and bloody lazy.

TFC OZZ
12-17-2009, 12:45 PM
Great moves. Vitti never deserved the money or playing time he got. Far too many people got excited about his "latin flair"; which was ultimately useless on our team. As for Fellinga, who cares? He'll be replaced by another no-name player of Preki's choice.

My issue:

WE STILL HAVE GARCIA?! let me repeat that. WE STILL HAVE NICK "THE BIGGEST LIABILITY IN THE LEAGUE" GARCIA. We need this guy OFF the team ASAP.

Jesus christ.

TFC Cityboy
12-17-2009, 12:48 PM
Great moves. Vitti never deserved the money or playing time he got. Far too many people got excited about his "latin flair"; which was ultimately useless on our team. As for Fellinga, who cares? He'll be replaced by another no-name player of Preki's choice.

My issue:

WE STILL HAVE GARCIA?! let me repeat that. WE STILL HAVE NICK "THE BIGGEST LIABILITY IN THE LEAGUE" GARCIA. We need this guy OFF the team ASAP.

Jesus christ.
agree...but Mo has to save the good news for a Xmas pressie

Stryker
12-17-2009, 12:50 PM
Well we know that Jimmy starting another year as LB simply won't cut it.
There's also been talk from Jimmy himself about returning as a sub.
The only players I can see us persueing from withinin the league are Bornstein (Chivas connection) and Hainault (canadian/trading history with Dynamo).
If not ethier of those players than a new LB will likely come from outside the MLS.

Beach_Red
12-17-2009, 12:53 PM
Hopefully with Preki in charge we'll have a full squad finally. The past 2 years, we have always had 21 to 22 players on the roster.


Would be nice to start the season with a full squad, too.

This looks good. People here were really worried at the end of the season that things would drag for the whole off-season, but right now it looks like the team is getting things done.

TorCanSoc
12-17-2009, 12:54 PM
From Captain to sub, harsh. DeRo new captain? Ouch.

Yagbod
12-17-2009, 12:54 PM
I will never forget when Vitti thought he scored his first TFC goal and got carded for whipping off his jersey. Hilarious.

Darlofletch
12-17-2009, 12:55 PM
Vitti wasn't terrible, there was a few games in a row he put in good performances, and i thought he might be able to fill a role in midfield, but that area's too crowded and he made too much money, so not sad to see him go. fellinga? meh, don't really know enough to care either way.

Yohan
12-17-2009, 12:55 PM
All three players are positions Van der Bergh can play. Coincidence?
huh? IIRC VDB is strictly LW. when did he play CM/AM?


Well this all would certainly open the door for a Bornstein trade. :D

Wishful thinking.

yeah really. Bornstein really upped his defensive game last season, so much that Preki trusted him to play CB in a few matches. a fullback who is defensively reliable? a first for TFC!

stugautz
12-17-2009, 12:56 PM
Nice to see they're cutting people. You know what I'd like more? Some signings in time for the beginning of training camp. It seems as if all our great additions always come mid-season.

Parkdale
12-17-2009, 12:56 PM
Fellinga is so cheap, I see no reason to get rid of him... unless the club knows something we don't, which is quite likely LOL


exactly. Hopefully there's a lot of things they know that we dont.

Yohan
12-17-2009, 12:57 PM
Nice to see they're cutting people. You know what I'd like more? Some signings in time for the beginning of training camp. It seems as if all our great additions always come mid-season.
damn you european transfer window! lol

Stryker
12-17-2009, 12:58 PM
[quote=Yohan;829249]huh? IIRC VDB is strictly LW. when did he play CM/AM?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_van_den_bergh

pekduck
12-17-2009, 12:58 PM
exactly. Hopefully there's a lot of things they know that we dont.

like... cutting you off from their payroll :cool:

:D

i can't wait to leave MSP today....

Stugatzo
12-17-2009, 12:58 PM
No surprises on Vitti (not good) and Amado (not compatible) but Amado circa 2008 will be a loss...2009, maybe not as much.
Vitti, not at all!

Oblio2
12-17-2009, 12:59 PM
Good. Vitti was terrible and not worth the money. What a waste

prizby
12-17-2009, 01:01 PM
Conor Casey, 1st year in MLS = 2 goals
Pablo Vitti, 1st year in MLS = 2 goals

Conor Casey, 3rd year in MLS = 16 goals
Pablo Vitti, 3rd year in MLS = ???

FluSH
12-17-2009, 01:02 PM
I called this yesterday.... broke the news right here =P

billyfly
12-17-2009, 01:02 PM
With all this TFC news recently how is the RPB board suppose to be wacky and crazy during the off-season??

Parkdale
12-17-2009, 01:03 PM
With all this TFC news recently how is the RPB board suppose to be wacky and crazy during the off-season??



How about we dedicate the Supporters Gate to Guevara?

Call it the GuevaraGate, and when it becomes a wacky and zany controversy, we call it GuevaraGateGate (or GGG for short)

Stryker
12-17-2009, 01:04 PM
I have this nagging feeling that Vitti will get picked up by the Sounders and do well for them.

billyfly
12-17-2009, 01:05 PM
How about we dedicate the Supporters Gate to Guevara?

Call it the GuevaraGate, and when it becomes a wacky and zany controversy, we call it GuevaraGateGate (or GGG for short)

Triple G. I like it.

We could also re-make the hoodies to have a Guevara patch.

Yohan
12-17-2009, 01:06 PM
I have this nagging feeling that Vitti will get picked up by the Sounders and do well for them.
dunno how loans work though. do teams pick up player rights on loans? does that mean any other MLS teams would have to trade for rights to Vitti?

and I thought TFC had a deal with Independiente to permanently sign Vitti

Dirk Diggler
12-17-2009, 01:09 PM
Fellinga I don't care about. No biggie with him being cut.

I would have liked to see Vitti get another chance though. Maybe half a season to see if he gains a goal scoring touch. We all know that he was quite skilled. I guess at the end of the day it came down to his salary which was certainly way to much for a player who did not produce at all despite the fact that he was tremendously skilled.

CretanBull
12-17-2009, 01:13 PM
When TFC declined their options, that gave them permission to sign with teams outside of the MLS...Vitti can't sign with the Sounders unless we trade him to them.

Parkdale
12-17-2009, 01:16 PM
When TFC declined their options, that gave them permission to sign with teams outside of the MLS...Vitti can't sign with the Sounders unless we trade him to them.

yeah... but watch some fluke happen that sends him to Philly where he averages 2 goals a game.

:(

Auzzy
12-17-2009, 01:22 PM
I have this nagging feeling that Vitti will get picked up by the Sounders and do well for them.

If your read the press release closely, these three players only seem to be free to negotiate new contracts outside of MLS. I think that is one of the crazy rules of MLS. TFC says they don't want to re-sign these guys, but they still keep their rights wrt. MLS, w/o paying a dime!!!??? I suppose the league will argue, that's because the contracts theoretically are with the league, and the league isn't renewing the contract (although it's mostly a team decision of course, and the league just signs off in most cases).

In this case, it's good for us, because I could see Vitti possibly being put to good use by another MLS team, adding to our frustration with such things (Cunny etc etc etc). But I could see it's one of the things that the players union would want to change in the new CBA. It limits the options & value of these players, as everyone knows that MLS isn't an option for them any more. For a foreign player who has settled in a North Amerian city, it's also hugely disruptive to be forced to leave the continent to continue working. Plus this really limits the attractiveness of MLS to foreign players.

Does anyone know how long these MLS rights are bound to a club? Forever, or is there a limit?

Stryker
12-17-2009, 01:27 PM
If your read the press release closely, these three players only seem to be free to negotiate new contracts outside of MLS...

I understand the rule fully.
How much does it cost to buy the rights to a player who is completely useless to you? A third round draft... fifty thousand in allocation... peanuts.

v00d00daddy
12-17-2009, 01:29 PM
Very mixed emotions on this for me.

I'm very happy to see that it appears that Preki is building HIS team. That's what we need more than anything.

I'm a bit upset that Vitti was a casualty. I hoped that he would be back at a reduced salary.

Oh well.

I'm interested to see what our team looks like this year.

I really hope we don't turn into a run, run, run team.

Who do we have left with any kind of touch on the ball?

JDG, DeRo and................................maybe Cronin.

Brick feet club: Brennan, Robbo, Barrett, Garcia, Ibrahim, Sanyang, Serioux, Wynne.

I really hope Mo brings in some guys with skill on the ball....otherwise this will be another long year of watching unattractive football.

Auzzy
12-17-2009, 01:32 PM
I understand the rule fully.
How much does it cost to buy the rights to a player who is completely useless to you? A third round draft... fifty thousand in allocation... peanuts.

Oh, you're right, I'm sure there's a market price for those things. So it's probably not that hopeless for a guy who wants to stay in MLS, and is good enough to be wanted by another club.

Still seems nuts though that a team can maintain the rights to a player that they are no longer paying a penny, especially if the decision to not renew a player was primarily the team's. (Different perhaps if a player decides to leave MLS on his own, like McBride, and then comes back later.)

bgnewf
12-17-2009, 01:32 PM
Good moves all, including Amado. Guevara would have been an expensive injured part time luxury for 2010. Sad to see him go but I think it is smart not to re-up him.

Fellinga gets an incomplete. And Vitti ranks up there with Mo's greatest busts. Glad to finally see the back of him leaving town. Each of his two goals cost us $100k in cap room. Absolutely appalling for a Carlos Tevez Wannabe who's only talents were as follows:

- Tying his pony tail in a neat fashion
- Looking like Klinger from M*A*S*H*
- Being able to do a little step-over once in a while without falling on his face

Good riddance to over-rated garbage!

Some are speculating that Robinson should be the next to go. I could not disagree more. Carl Robinson I think still has a place here. And the place in my eyes is as a centre half. Finding a good centre half that is affordable is an extremely difficult proposition. And frankly Mo has yet to deliver on this promise from day one. We have yet to have a decent MLS quality centre half and we will continue to struggle without one.

Using Robbo as a centre half kills a number of birds with one stone. It allows Robbo to potentially extend his career @ a club that he has been a loyal servant of from day one. Win Win. It also frees up room for Cronin to slot into the holing role and gives more room for other players like DeRo and JDG to do their own thing as attacking options.

If Mo can't find the centre half he has been looking for now for four years I think this move makes the most sense.

Oblio2
12-17-2009, 01:36 PM
Good moves all, including Amado. Guevara would have been an expensive injured part time luxury for 2010. Sad to see him go but I think it is smart not to re-up him.

Fellinga gets an incomplete. And Vitti ranks up there with Mo's greatest busts. Glad to finally see the back of him leaving town. Each of his two goals cost us $100k in cap room. Absolutely appalling for a Carlos Tevez Wannabe who's only talents were as follows:

- Tying his pony tail in a neat fashion
- Looking like Klinger from M*A*S*H*
- Being able to do a litle step-over without faling on his face

Good riddance to over-rated garbage!

Some are speculating that Robinson should be the next to go. I could not disagree more. Carl Robinson I think still has a place here. And the place in my eyes is as a centre half. Finding a good centre half that is affordable is an extremely difficult proposition. And frankly Mo has yet to deliver on this promise from day one. We have yet to have a decent MLS quality centre half and we will continue to struggle without one.

Using Robbo as a centre half kills a number of birds with one stone. It allows Robbo to potentially extend his career @ a club that he has been a loyal servant of from day one. Win Win. It also frees up room for Cronin to slot into the holing role and gives more room for other players like DeRo and JDG to do their own thing as attacking options.

If Mo can't find the centre half he has been looking for now for four years I think this move makes the most sense.


Couldn't agree more, on all points

Stryker
12-17-2009, 01:39 PM
The idea of a 5' 10" CB frightens me. Particularily one who can no longer pass without turning the ball over.

CretanBull
12-17-2009, 01:44 PM
I agree, but I'd still like to see Robbo playing the DM role. He had an off year, but he's too good/too smart to not be usefull playing the role that he's most comfortable in. Robbo in the DM frees up JDG to move forward....alot of people want Cronin to take the DM spot, but I see him more of a box to box player - why stiffle a young player's offensive potential so early in his career?

jabbronies
12-17-2009, 01:53 PM
Couldn't agree more, on all points

I'll second that...

Yohan
12-17-2009, 01:55 PM
Some are speculating that Robinson should be the next to go. I could not disagree more. Carl Robinson I think still has a place here. And the place in my eyes is as a centre half. Finding a good centre half that is affordable is an extremely difficult proposition. And frankly Mo has yet to deliver on this promise from day one. We have yet to have a decent MLS quality centre half and we will continue to struggle without one.

Using Robbo as a centre half kills a number of birds with one stone. It allows Robbo to potentially extend his career @ a club that he has been a loyal servant of from day one. Win Win. It also frees up room for Cronin to slot into the holing role and gives more room for other players like DeRo and JDG to do their own thing as attacking options.

If Mo can't find the centre half he has been looking for now for four years I think this move makes the most sense.
Mo did find a good CB... Tebily... but I digress

I think Robbo would only be a temp solution, and Mo will have to find another CB eventually. 300k a year for temp solution aging CB... hmm....

Robbo can still play DM, if he corrects his one major flaw in his game, which is passing. I don't think he's lost passing skillls forever, but just needs to rediscover his touch. Robbo is still one of the best DMs in MLS, if he has his passing back.

5'10" defenders can work, but that is if his supporting cast make up the lack of height. Robbo is a communicator and leader in defence...

v00d00daddy
12-17-2009, 01:57 PM
Good riddance to over-rated garbage!

Some are speculating that Robinson should be the next to go. I could not disagree more. Carl Robinson I think still has a place here. And the place in my eyes is as a centre half. Finding a good centre half that is affordable is an extremely difficult proposition. And frankly Mo has yet to deliver on this promise from day one. We have yet to have a decent MLS quality centre half and we will continue to struggle without one.

Using Robbo as a centre half kills a number of birds with one stone. It allows Robbo to potentially extend his career @ a club that he has been a loyal servant of from day one. Win Win. It also frees up room for Cronin to slot into the holing role and gives more room for other players like DeRo and JDG to do their own thing as attacking options.

If Mo can't find the centre half he has been looking for now for four years I think this move makes the most sense.

Really...this kind of stuff is what makes me the most upset about this team.

How can you call Vitti over rated garbage and then wax poetically about the "loyal" (who gives a shit) Carl Robinson.

Robbo has been one of our highest paid players since day one. His loyalty has been rewarded with lots of dough.

So help me...If Robbo ends up being an everyday CB I will lose my mind.

We cut our losses with guys like Vitti and Guevara...and I understand the moves. It cleans up space for new players.

Now you wanna keep a guy that:

a) makes WAY too much
b) has lost what little game he had
c) plays a position where we have a bunch of replacements ready

And the solution is to make him play the most important position at the back when he's never done it with any consistency for his whole career?

I would think that Preki has more sense than that.

We need a CB real bad and Robbo is not the answer.

If he's not the next on the cut list I will be very upset.

Yohan
12-17-2009, 01:58 PM
I agree, but I'd still like to see Robbo playing the DM role. He had an off year, but he's too good/too smart to not be usefull playing the role that he's most comfortable in. Robbo in the DM frees up JDG to move forward....alot of people want Cronin to take the DM spot, but I see him more of a box to box player - why stiffle a young player's offensive potential so early in his career?
I think until White or or Gerba or whoever steps up as striker, DeRo will keep playing more or less as second striker

so, JDG as AM? hmm... saw signs of his passing skills last season, but is it that wise to push him out of his best comfort zone, even if he played more attacking for CMNT?

either Mo gets another proven striker, or another AM is more likely solution IMO

v00d00daddy
12-17-2009, 02:02 PM
Robbo can still play DM, if he corrects his one major flaw in his game, which is passing. I don't think he's lost passing skillls forever, but just needs to rediscover his touch. Robbo is still one of the best DMs in MLS, if he has his passing back.

5'10" defenders can work, but that is if his supporting cast make up the lack of height. Robbo is a communicator and leader in defence...


I don't get this. Did you really see good passing from Robbo in season 1 or 2?

I didn't. He's had the same shitty vision, brick feet since day one.

His redeeming value is his tenacity and his heart.

THAT'S IT.

When was Robbo ever a good passer?

Never as a TFC player.

The only thing I hate more than his game is the love that he gets from the supporters. It makes no sense to me.

TFC07
12-17-2009, 02:04 PM
Really...this kind of stuff is what makes me the most upset about this team.

How can you call Vitti over rated garbage and then wax poetically about the "loyal" (who gives a shit) Carl Robinson.

Robbo has been one of our highest paid players since day one. His loyalty has been rewarded with lots of dough.

So help me...If Robbo ends up being an everyday CB I will lose my mind.

We cut our losses with guys like Vitti and Guevara...and I understand the moves. It cleans up space for new players.

Now you wanna keep a guy that:

a) makes WAY too much
b) has lost what little game he had
c) plays a position where we have a bunch of replacements ready

And the solution is to make him play the most important position at the back when he's never done it with any consistency for his whole career?

I would think that Preki has more sense than that.

We need a CB real bad and Robbo is not the answer.

If he's not the next on the cut list I will be very upset.

Well said.

If Robbo doesn't get cut or at least take a major paycut then I will be piss as well. Robbo isn't worth $300K+!

Hopefully Preki got balls to demand that.

EDIT: If Robbo truly loved this club and was loyal to it, then he would have took a paycut already so that TFC can use the money to get quality players.

Yohan
12-17-2009, 02:11 PM
Well said.

If Robbo doesn't get cut or at least take a major paycut then I will be piss as well. Robbo isn't worth $300K+!

Hopefully Preki got balls to demand that.

EDIT: If Robbo truly loved this club and was loyal to it, then he would have took a paycut already so that TFC can use the money to get quality players.
didn't Robbo take a paycut from 350k to 300k just last season?

Robbo had ok passing. not great, but ok. but since we're not expecting Robbo to be a Pirlo, just ability to make an ok first pass is good enough.
it's only last season that his passing truly went to shit

TFC07
12-17-2009, 02:14 PM
didn't Robbo take a paycut from 350k to 300k just last season?

Robbo had ok passing. not great, but ok. but since we're not expecting Robbo to be a Pirlo, just ability to make an ok first pass is good enough.
it's only last season that his passing truly went to shit

Oh wow...I am sure that made a huge difference in salary cap. :rolleyes:

Robbo should be getting at most $150K. He isn't close to DP money type of player. He isn't DeRo and isn't worth close to DeRo.

Yeoman
12-17-2009, 02:16 PM
but we still hold garcias contract right
RIGHT?!?

CretanBull
12-17-2009, 02:21 PM
I think until White or or Gerba or whoever steps up as striker, DeRo will keep playing more or less as second striker

so, JDG as AM? hmm... saw signs of his passing skills last season, but is it that wise to push him out of his best comfort zone, even if he played more attacking for CMNT?

either Mo gets another proven striker, or another AM is more likely solution IMO

I only meant that having Robbo at DM would allow JDG to move forward from that role and into a more central role. Things are likely to change 10 time between now and when the season starts, but I'd guess that the plan is to have De Ro playing the attacking role from the RW with JDG and Cronin playing box-to-box in the center of the pitch, Robbo playing in front of the backline and and new player brought in to play the LW. We'd basically have a 5 man midfield that would act as a traditional 5 man midfield in defense but would shift to a 4 man midfield when attacking as De Ro essentially becomes a striker.

CretanBull
12-17-2009, 02:22 PM
Oh wow...I am sure that made a huge difference in salary cap. :rolleyes:

Robbo should be getting at most $150K. He isn't close to DP money type of player. He isn't DeRo and isn't worth close to DeRo.

DeRo makes more than twice as much as Robbo.

JonO
12-17-2009, 02:26 PM
Well this all would certainly open the door for a Bornstein trade. :D
Wishful thinking.
Me too :D

Yohan
12-17-2009, 02:34 PM
Oh wow...I am sure that made a huge difference in salary cap. :rolleyes:

Robbo should be getting at most $150K. He isn't close to DP money type of player. He isn't DeRo and isn't worth close to DeRo.
you must understand the context of how the player got such a huge history

Robbo was signed in first year. TFC was a nobody club then. you'd have to throw tons of money to attract any half decent quality to this no name league called MLS

his contract IIRC was due to end at the end of this season. however, Robbo was one of the best and more consistent players in season 1 and 2, and his contract was more or less justified at that time. (even though I slagged him a lot)

it's only last season that Robbo dropped in form a lot, and emergence of other DMs that made Robbo's value drop, and if I was to sign Robbo today, i'd offer no more than 150k too

but he already agreed to take a partial pay cut and extend his contract (i believe this coming season is end of this contract), and Robbo has been a good servant to the club. we bitch about whenever someone thinks Dichio is getting the shaft, regardless of truth, but why arbitrarily cut Robbo's pay when he's been just as as good servant to the club as Dichio?

MLS is a ruthless league in terms of releasing players and whatnot, but unless Robbo voluntarily agrees, (and he's got a family to feed), we're stuck with his contract.

Mastroeni, Ben Olsen, Ricardo Clark, Shalrie Joseph, are some of the other best DMs in the league, and they make anywhere from 225 to 450k. though most teams make do with paying around 100k for DM. (Seattle has a huge bargain with Alonso and 70k salary)

Yohan
12-17-2009, 02:36 PM
but we still hold garcias contract right
RIGHT?!?
i'm going to guess Garcia is sitting on a guaranteed contract too... hard to trade or even release him

SoccMan
12-17-2009, 02:36 PM
I love it how some people come out here and write about Vitti being garbage and bringing up the salary he made,however, what about the garbage that is Robinson then? Here is a guy who could not put one pass together and look at his salary. Therefore, if your going to call Vitti garbage because of his ability and his salary then you better include your beloved Robinson who is just as bad and makes the same kind of money! He must be the next to go it's as simple as that.

Oblio2
12-17-2009, 02:38 PM
I love it how some people come out here and write about Vitti being garbage and bringing up the salary he made,however, what about the garbage that is Robinson then? Here is a guy who could not put one pass together and look at his salary. Therefore, if your going to call Vitti garbage because of his ability and his salary then you better include your beloved Robinson who is just as bad and makes the same kind of money! He must be the next to go it's as simple as that.

No.
Vitti is paid to score goals. he's crap.
Robbo was paid to command the midfield. He did.
He is a Defensive Mid.
Compare apples to apples

TFCRegina
12-17-2009, 02:46 PM
Good, he was terrible.

SoccMan
12-17-2009, 02:49 PM
Robbo commanded what midfield, he has been crap for the past two seasons, had a decent first season and that was it. Let's see how he does under Preki and if he stays how long he lasts as a starter if his play does not improve from the past two seasons, Preki is Preki his two buddies from England( Carver and the other guy) have gone and are now just a memory, this is Preki's team now.

Oblio2
12-17-2009, 02:49 PM
Robbo commanded what midfield, he has been crap for the past two seasons, had a decent first season and that was it. Let's see how he does under Preki and if he stays how long he lasts as a starter if his play does not improve from the past two seasons, Preki is Preki his two buddies from England have gone and are now just a memory, this is Preki's team now.

I think you are wrong.
It's an opinion

Shakes McQueen
12-17-2009, 02:53 PM
Conor Casey, 1st year in MLS = 2 goals
Pablo Vitti, 1st year in MLS = 2 goals

Conor Casey, 3rd year in MLS = 16 goals
Pablo Vitti, 3rd year in MLS = ???

You've ignored all of the two goal scorers who don't go on to have career seasons a year later.

- Scott

JonO
12-17-2009, 02:54 PM
Preki is Preki his two buddies from England( Carver and the other guy) have gone and are now just a memory, this is Preki's team now.
Yeah - and Preki just cut Vitti, not Robbo, so what does that tell you?

Robbo had a shit season last year, which was too bad. But in his first two years he was widely held as one of the top DM's in the league. Don't agree - fair enough, but that doesn't make you right, either. I think Mo and Preki are betting he can get back to form this year.

Shaughno
12-17-2009, 02:54 PM
No.
Vitti is paid to score goals. he's crap.
Robbo was paid to command the midfield. He did.
He is a Defensive Mid.
Compare apples to apples


Actually that's flawed. Vitti wasn't brought on as a striker, therefore not brought on to score goals. He is supposed to bring an attacking flair to the team. A number 10 of sorts. There was a stretch of about 3 games in a row, where he did that quite successfully, but then for some reason resorted back to his familiar, boring game that didn't utilize his talents.

While I agree Vitti wasn't worth his contract, neither is Robbo at this point, especially after this past season.

SoccMan
12-17-2009, 02:55 PM
Major changes need to be made on this team, and changes are being made, two more that need to go our Robbo and Brennan and of course Garcia.

JonO
12-17-2009, 02:56 PM
You've ignored all of the two goal scorers who don't go on to have career seasons a year later.

- Scott
Yeah. And to be honest with you, I'm rarely fazed by players who move on and perform well. Often they perform well because of the move or the new environment. There is never any guarantee that they would have performed as well had they stayed.

So if Vitti moves on and does well, good for him. Based on his performance last year, that isn't going to happen here....

Shaughno
12-17-2009, 02:56 PM
Yeah - and Preki just cut Vitti, not Robbo, so what does that tell you?

Robbo had a shit season last year, which was too bad. But in his first two years he was widely held as one of the top DM's in the league. Don't agree - fair enough, but that doesn't make you right, either. I think Mo and Preki are betting he can get back to form this year.


My problem isn't if Robbo can get back to form, but at what cost? We have Cronin, JDG, and Sanyang who have all done as good, or better job than Robbo.

I can't find a reason to keep Robbo on at DM with his current salary, personally. Bring him into the defense, then we can start talking. At DM, he's wasted $$ IMO.

JonO
12-17-2009, 03:02 PM
^^^ Last year I would agree, but if Robbo gets back to the way he played in the second season, I would say only JDG is better. That being said, given our depth at that position, it will be interesting to see how/where Preki plays people.

CretanBull
12-17-2009, 03:09 PM
Actually that's flawed. Vitti wasn't brought on as a striker, therefore not brought on to score goals. He is supposed to bring an attacking flair to the team. A number 10 of sorts. There was a stretch of about 3 games in a row, where he did that quite successfully, but then for some reason resorted back to his familiar, boring game that didn't utilize his talents.


Vitti was signed as a striker and was sold to us as a solution to our goal scoring problems. The interviews with Mo, the newspaper articles all refer to him as a striker and most mention how his arrival would mean less playing time for Dichio because there's only so much playing time for Barrett, Vitti, Dichio etc.

Yohan
12-17-2009, 03:10 PM
now i'm really curious to know what direction Mo and Preki are going to do

Lucky Strike
12-17-2009, 03:16 PM
you must understand the context of how the player got such a huge history

Robbo was signed in first year. TFC was a nobody club then. you'd have to throw tons of money to attract any half decent quality to this no name league called MLS

his contract IIRC was due to end at the end of this season. however, Robbo was one of the best and more consistent players in season 1 and 2, and his contract was more or less justified at that time. (even though I slagged him a lot)

it's only last season that Robbo dropped in form a lot, and emergence of other DMs that made Robbo's value drop, and if I was to sign Robbo today, i'd offer no more than 150k too

but he already agreed to take a partial pay cut and extend his contract (i believe this coming season is end of this contract), and Robbo has been a good servant to the club. we bitch about whenever someone thinks Dichio is getting the shaft, regardless of truth, but why arbitrarily cut Robbo's pay when he's been just as as good servant to the club as Dichio?

MLS is a ruthless league in terms of releasing players and whatnot, but unless Robbo voluntarily agrees, (and he's got a family to feed), we're stuck with his contract.

Could not have said it better myself.

GhostKiller
12-17-2009, 03:20 PM
I'm upset that Vitti is gone. I'll admit he was a bust his first and only year here, but I always thought that with a real coach, and real grass, and real direction, he would flourish in this league.

Bad move I say.

grizzle
12-17-2009, 03:27 PM
I for one will be sad to see him go.

Lucky Strike
12-17-2009, 03:31 PM
I'm upset that Vitti is gone. I'll admit he was a bust his first and only year here, but I always thought that with a real coach, and real grass, and real direction, he would flourish in this league.

Bad move I say.

That's part of the problem, IMHO. A truly good player will thrive no matter the circumstances. Vitti could shake but never bake - we need someone with real yeast to rise up and perform with the club (sick of this bread analogy yet?).

Detroit_TFC
12-17-2009, 03:38 PM
With rosters as small as they are in MLS, AND no reserve league, do we have the luxury of allowing a player like Vitti 2 or 3 years to see what they got? It's sucks that we can't have real player development - we need players who can make an immediate positive impact.

Roogsy
12-17-2009, 03:50 PM
I like the fact that Preki isn't wasting any time. I liked the skill level of Vitti but the evidence was too much to ignore, there was something wrong there.

trane
12-17-2009, 03:52 PM
I would have liked to see what Preki can do with Vitti and Fellinga, but whatever. Not upset in losing both of them, Vitti cost too much and it's too bad we couldn't get him at about half what he was making. Fellinga is so cheap, I see no reason to get rid of him... unless the club knows something we don't, which is quite likely LOL


But Shags, you have to admit that the kid showed so much promise, at least in what we got to see? I am very suprised by this. Vitti I thought had more potential but I understand that cut, but Fellinga, I am suprised, very surprised.

HOGAN
12-17-2009, 04:08 PM
From what I've heard...Preki is all about defense...so if the team can manage to score one goal, then they'll make the playoffs next season.

Vitti was luggage...Guevara overstayed his welcome.

Adios brothers.

mastermixer
12-17-2009, 04:32 PM
I like the fact that Preki isn't wasting any time. I liked the skill level of Vitti but the evidence was too much to ignore, there was something wrong there.

Preki hasn't seen these guys train yet, so the questions is: Is it Preki's decision to let these players go or is it Mo giving these guys the heave-ho.

TFCRegina
12-17-2009, 04:41 PM
Preki probably asked for some room to make some acquisitions and Mo is cutting dead wood.

Yohan
12-17-2009, 04:46 PM
Preki hasn't seen these guys train yet, so the questions is: Is it Preki's decision to let these players go or is it Mo giving these guys the heave-ho.
it's not like preki haven't seen these guys play, or didn't see their game tapes...
or talk to Daso and Dichio...

jazzy
12-17-2009, 04:57 PM
Vitti was signed as a striker and was sold to us as a solution to our goal scoring problems. The interviews with Mo, the newspaper articles all refer to him as a striker and most mention how his arrival would mean less playing time for Dichio because there's only so much playing time for Barrett, Vitti, Dichio etc.

Notice how BARRETT got it all...........and again this year, I fear the worst

jazzy
12-17-2009, 05:07 PM
But Shags, you have to admit that the kid showed so much promise, at least in what we got to see? I am very suprised by this. Vitti I thought had more potential but I understand that cut, but Fellinga, I am suprised, very surprised.

I saw some fine cross' from Fellinga...By the way are we doomed in this league, where strength and less attractive straight ahead running after long kicked passes, becomes more dominant than creativity and 'touch' control ball? Hence the set up of our team

Always There
12-17-2009, 05:09 PM
It's hard to judge certain players that have played for us in then past, because we've seemingly never had good coaching. I think sometimes good talent can be wasted by poor coaching.

Vitti had tough luck last year running into John Carver and Chris Cummins and that whole situation. I trust Preki, and don't have a problem with Vitti being cut because he didn't really do a lot last year, but he was not put in a good position to succeed.

Best of luck to him and Fellinga, who I thought had promise in his brief appearances.

New coach, new vission. I liked Preki's press conference and have faith in him. It's hard to speculate on work ethic, but with Preki I trust only the best effort will do.

The Carl Robinson hate is no good.

TFC OZZ
12-17-2009, 05:33 PM
I find it disturbing that there is so much talk about Carl Robinson not deserving a spot in the squad next year; while talk about Nick Garcia's future is harder to come by. Maybe everyone just knows Garcia's shit, and Robbo's the only one worth arguing about. I really hope that's the case.

Personally, I'm a big fan of deploying defensive midfielders; a position that many people seem to either take for granted or not fully understand the importance of. Robinson had a poor season last year, but with his retirement looming and a long absence from duty, I would expect a strong rebound year; maybe his last. In the case of Nick Garcia -the worst player to ever wear a TFC jersey in my opinion (and yes that includes Lombardo, Regan, titus etc. wearing TFC red)- I will reiterate my previous statement and say please god get him off this team. That is all.

Yohan
12-17-2009, 05:37 PM
oh c'mon dude. Tim Regan and Rick Titus were temp players for one game only

could have picked better candidates like Cunty, Ruiz, Reda and Braz...

v00d00daddy
12-17-2009, 06:57 PM
I find it disturbing that there is so much talk about Carl Robinson not deserving a spot in the squad next year; while talk about Nick Garcia's future is harder to come by. Maybe everyone just knows Garcia's shit, and Robbo's the only one worth arguing about. I really hope that's the case.

Personally, I'm a big fan of deploying defensive midfielders; a position that many people seem to either take for granted or not fully understand the importance of. Robinson had a poor season last year, but with his retirement looming and a long absence from duty, I would expect a strong rebound year; maybe his last. In the case of Nick Garcia -the worst player to ever wear a TFC jersey in my opinion (and yes that includes Lombardo, Regan, titus etc. wearing TFC red)- I will reiterate my previous statement and say please god get him off this team. That is all.

I totally disagree here. The pure defensive midfielder is as archaic an idea as the sweeper. It has nothing to do with taking it for granted. It's more a case of expecting more out of a position.

In today's day and age it is no longer enough to have a midfielder who sits in front of the back line and win balls. That position has become one where that player has to also be able to distribute balls and get involved moving forward. He has to be an option for his teammates when they have the ball.

Watch Robbo play. The guy barely ever gets near the half line and when he is there he has ZERO interest in getting the ball. He doesn't want to be involved.

That's a wasted spot out there in my opinion. He's playing the role of a defender without all the responsibility of a defender. He has a really cushy job at TFC and I think it needs to end.

Enter: Sam Cronin. Ta Da....problem solved.

If we can shed 300k+ with Guevara then we can surely shed Robbo and his WAY overpriced tag.

TFCRegina
12-17-2009, 06:59 PM
I totally disagree here. The pure defensive midfielder is as archaic an idea as the sweeper. It has nothing to do with taking it for granted. It's more a case of expecting more out of a position.

In today's day and age it is no longer enough to have a midfielder who sits in front of the back line and win balls. That position has become one where that player has to also be able to distribute balls and get involved moving forward. He has to be an option for his teammates when they have the ball.

Watch Robbo play. The guy barely ever gets near the half line and when he is there he has ZERO interest in getting the ball. He doesn't want to be involved.

That's a wasted spot out there in my opinion. He's playing the role of a defender without all the responsibility of a defender. He has a really cushy job at TFC and I think it needs to end.

Enter: Sam Cronin. Ta Da....problem solved.

If we can shed 300k+ with Guevara then we can surely shed Robbo and his WAY overpriced tag.

It's surely a wasted position when the current MLS champions deployed a Defensive Midfielder all year! :picard:

arsenal
12-17-2009, 07:08 PM
Would have liked to see Vitti back at a reduced contract but hard to argue with this without knowing what we would have had to pay Independiente.

Yohan
12-17-2009, 07:18 PM
I totally disagree here. The pure defensive midfielder is as archaic an idea as the sweeper. It has nothing to do with taking it for granted. It's more a case of expecting more out of a position.

In today's day and age it is no longer enough to have a midfielder who sits in front of the back line and win balls. That position has become one where that player has to also be able to distribute balls and get involved moving forward. He has to be an option for his teammates when they have the ball.

Watch Robbo play. The guy barely ever gets near the half line and when he is there he has ZERO interest in getting the ball. He doesn't want to be involved.

That's a wasted spot out there in my opinion. He's playing the role of a defender without all the responsibility of a defender. He has a really cushy job at TFC and I think it needs to end.

Enter: Sam Cronin. Ta Da....problem solved.

If we can shed 300k+ with Guevara then we can surely shed Robbo and his WAY overpriced tag.
there aren't many DMs in MLS who can do the things you're asking for. only guy that comes to my mind is that dirty hippie Kyle Beckerman. most DMs in MLS don't go forward often

play isn't developed in MLS that you don't see DMs like you'd see in top leagues of the world in MLS.

actually, JDG can play the DM role that you're asking lol

ArmenJBX
12-17-2009, 07:21 PM
So, in other news, we are now under the limit needed to actually compete in the MLS. We have only 17 outfield players, when 18 is required. So, with that, let the transfer rumours begin.

I call it from right now, first new player signed is Will Johnson.

jloome
12-17-2009, 07:47 PM
It's surely a wasted position when the current MLS champions deployed a Defensive Midfielder all year! :picard:

Yeah, ball winners, who needs 'em.

voodood, I agree with a lot of what you say, but that's asinine. For one, defensive midfielders were always expected to distribute. What you're describing used to be called an "anchor man", and yes, they're generally not used much.

But Robinson isn't an anchor man. Never has been. In fact for most of his career, he was a two-way midfielder who was stronger defensively than going forward, that's all.

For another, his passing is underrated on this board. Badly. For a third, he was one of our most consistent players for two straight years, and his bad year happened to come in a season when our midfield changed its composition every eight minutes.

He's coming towards the end of his career. Maybe he just lost a step this past year, but won't rapidly decline, as some older players do. Cutting a guy who has made his level of contribution when he can still possibly do so would be a crappy decision.

And no, he can't be moved to centre back. One, his strength is lateral movement and closing space, not individual man marking. Two, he's like 5'10 or some shit. Do We really want two short, vertically challenged centre backs (relatively speaking)? Nana makes up for it in tenacity and skill. I'm not sure a converted DM who's aging (Adrian Serioux, anyone?) is such a good idea.

Is he now overpaid relative to his likely future role? Sure. Let's hope he'll take a pay cut. If it's the difference between whether he stays and goes, that's his decision, because the club won't be able to afford to keep a guy who's not starting at that salary level.

Fushida
12-17-2009, 07:48 PM
I totally disagree here. The pure defensive midfielder is as archaic an idea as the sweeper. It has nothing to do with taking it for granted. It's more a case of expecting more out of a position.

In today's day and age it is no longer enough to have a midfielder who sits in front of the back line and win balls. That position has become one where that player has to also be able to distribute balls and get involved moving forward. He has to be an option for his teammates when they have the ball.

Watch Robbo play. The guy barely ever gets near the half line and when he is there he has ZERO interest in getting the ball. He doesn't want to be involved.

That's a wasted spot out there in my opinion. He's playing the role of a defender without all the responsibility of a defender. He has a really cushy job at TFC and I think it needs to end.

Enter: Sam Cronin. Ta Da....problem solved.

If we can shed 300k+ with Guevara then we can surely shed Robbo and his WAY overpriced tag.

I agree totally with this. Robbo is a good ball winner, but at too high a cost and too limited a role. Both Shalrie Joseph and Beckerman are great ball winners and can definitely link up with attackers... Beckerman also does a damn good job of holding the ball and going forward (both of which are things Robbo rarely does/cannot do effectively). DeGuzman can definitely play the role you're talking about... while a lot of people seem to think so, I don't think he has the vision that Guevara had in the attacking third based on the few games he played last year... but who knows, with a whole training camp under his belt he might have a bit more chemistry with the guys.

Though I think Cronin is a bit soft for a ball winner from what I've seen last year. I'm a big fan of his but he seems more cut out as a box to box guy (like MoEdu).

Ossington Mental Youth
12-17-2009, 08:34 PM
Really? That's unfortunate and somewhat surprising, I think he could have made a contribution here and looked at least promising. We didn't really get to see enough of him, IMHO.

yep me too, theyd better have a replacement for that position on the way

TFC HSV
12-17-2009, 09:16 PM
vitti gone is the best news i've heard all day

v00d00daddy
12-17-2009, 09:40 PM
Guys,

I never said that I expect Robbo to score goals. I just want him to be an option when, lets say, a guy on one wing wants to switch the play. He plays the ball to the middle of the park where there should be several options. Unfortunately there is one less option because Robbo is hanging out just outside our 18 (exageration I know).

Jloome.....Robbo is the epitomy of an anchor. His play did not slow down last year. He is the same player he was on day one with this club. It's just taken people three years to see it. He will not get better. His passing is not under appreciated. It's horrid. We all know it.

He's not tasked to make complicated plays. He's not giving through balls. He's asked to take a ball, trap it quickly and move it along in some kind of beneficial way. He does none of these things well.

The guy was promoted to football god from day one, for no good reason other than where he played and that he sounds nice when he speaks. Now people are having a hard time admitting that they were wrong.

Let's try being as critical with him as we are with other under achievers.

Sure, Pablo Vitti did not look good last year, but at least there is potential for improvement there.

Robbo looked bad and will only look worse with each passing year. I just hope its not with TFC.

James17930
12-17-2009, 09:45 PM
I'm surprised they cut Fellinga. We are so weak on the left side and he seemed to have promise.

Maybe Mo will make a move for Van den Bergh.

Yohan
12-17-2009, 09:48 PM
Guys,

I never said that I expect Robbo to score goals. I just want him to be an option when, lets say, a guy on one wing wants to switch the play. He plays the ball to the middle of the park where there should be several options. Unfortunately there is one less option because Robbo is hanging out just outside our 18 (exageration I know).

Jloome.....Robbo is the epitomy of an anchor. His play did not slow down last year. He is the same player he was on day one with this club. It's just taken people three years to see it. He will not get better. His passing is not under appreciated. It's horrid. We all know it.

He's not tasked to make complicated plays. He's not giving through balls. He's asked to take a ball, trap it quickly and move it along in some kind of beneficial way. He does none of these things well.

The guy was promoted to football god from day one, for no good reason other than where he played and that he sounds nice when he speaks. Now people are having a hard time admitting that they were wrong.

Let's try being as critical with him as we are with other under achievers.

Sure, Pablo Vitti did not look good last year, but at least there is potential for improvement there.

Robbo looked bad and will only look worse with each passing year. I just hope its not with TFC.
hrm. i wonder how much of robbo's 'anchor' play was him realizing that the defenders are realy wonky, and he needed to stay back most of the time to cover up for the back 4's inadequacies.

There were couple of games in season 1 & 2 that Robbo was everywhere, including being an option making late runs just outside the box.

you really hate everything about the English game, do you?

RealG-TFC
12-17-2009, 09:52 PM
I have a strong feeling Preki is going to fail. :facepalm:

kitchener-TFC
12-17-2009, 10:14 PM
I was looking forward to seeing Vitti and Fellinga next season, but whatever.

Pachuco
12-17-2009, 10:21 PM
fuck am I glad Felinga is gone. Vitti on the other hand, I would've taken him for a reduced salary. Maybe he wasn't ready to take a pay cut. Oh well, overall they can both be replaced.

Guevara on the other hand, sad to see him go. Thanks for the memories, thaks for some of those world class goals you scored. most of all, thanks for proving everyone wrong that you would be a cancer in the locker room.

Auzzy
12-17-2009, 10:29 PM
I have a strong feeling Preki is going to fail. :facepalm:

Agreed, time to fire his ass. I mean, he's been here at least a month, and how many games have we one with him, how many goals have we scored? Enough FFS, time to move on.




:rolleyes:

Cashcleaner
12-18-2009, 12:54 AM
Very mixed emotions on this for me.

I'm very happy to see that it appears that Preki is building HIS team. That's what we need more than anything.

I'm a bit upset that Vitti was a casualty. I hoped that he would be back at a reduced salary.

Oh well.


I hear you on that. I think Garcia will be the real test of that, though. As far as the rumours go, Garcia was hand-picked by Mo as his man in the locker-room. If Preki really does have the authority to build the team to his specs, dropping Garcia would probably be the best way to prove that.

twistedchinaman
12-18-2009, 01:00 AM
Great goals, terribly incosistent, too frustrating.

Hasta la vista...not!

El Lobo will be missed -- Vitti...not so much if at all. No tears from me, darling.

TFCRegina
12-18-2009, 01:03 AM
I hear you on that. I think Garcia will be the real test of that, though. As far as the rumours go, Garcia was hand-picked by Mo as his man in the locker-room. If Preki really does have the authority to build the team to his specs, dropping Garcia would probably be the best way to prove that.

Maybe, maybe not. Preki is like Mo in many ways, except that Preki seems to be a skilled tactician...

They're both junk collectors, they pick up other people's castoffs and see treasure.

Maybe, just maybe, (and this is a big maybe) they can make Garcia work within his system.

I'm all for sacking him, but who knows what our mysterious new Manager thinks?

s2cazz
12-18-2009, 01:14 AM
Not a surprising move, but he is a talented player. Just not in the way that TFC really needs.

Best of luck to him going forward.
I think he was very talented... there were a many moments when you could really see it. I think he was holding back personaly and it's too bad, he could have really tore shit up IMO

No room for that shit on our squad.

Brooker
12-18-2009, 05:41 AM
How much does Garcia make next year, anyway?

Yohan
12-18-2009, 08:05 AM
How much does Garcia make next year, anyway?
If no change from his current contract, 200k

Always There
12-18-2009, 09:06 AM
I agree that Carl Robinson is under rated as a passer. I find he is great at getting the ball forward to the best option. He doesn't play a lot of long balls, but likes the control game. I always wanted us to play more of a control game last year, but we seemed to have no system at all.

I also think Robinson is one of our toughest players. Him and Jimmy B are always the first to get in someones face to defend a teammate.

Once again, I'm willing to give everyone a clean slate now that we have Preki. I know he's not ultra experienced as a coach, but I believe he will have a system and stick to it. It should be interesting to see what he does with our crowded midfield.

Oldtimer
12-18-2009, 09:19 AM
If Preki is willing to give Garcia a chance, I am too.

By all accounts, Preki is a master at getting players to play a role. Garcia might do well given proper direction.
We all know how well Adam Braz did at Montreal despite being one of TFC's "less skilled" players in 2007 when John Limniatiis taught him to play a role and do it well. We may see the same with Nick Garcia under Preki (Garcia, who despite his poor ability to read the game is more skilled than Braz).

jabbronies
12-18-2009, 09:21 AM
I like the fact that Preki isn't wasting any time. I liked the skill level of Vitti but the evidence was too much to ignore, there was something wrong there.

Vitti has skill, there is no questioning that. He can run around 2-3 guy with the ball still on his foot.

And that is also his problem.

He takes the ball, runs around 2-3 guys and instead of passing the ball off to an open teammate, he tries and runs around another 2-3 guys and looses the ball. He doesn't have the right "team" mentality IMO.

bertal
12-18-2009, 09:27 AM
Press release just came... (http://www.24thminute.com/2009/12/vitti-fellinga-also-cut.html)


well, all i can say is...
BRILLIANT!

boban
12-18-2009, 09:27 AM
Some serious replacements better be coming because I don't know what any sense of a possession game we will have now. Sad to see Vitti go.

brad
12-18-2009, 09:50 AM
I agree that Carl Robinson is under rated as a passer. I find he is great at getting the ball forward to the best option. He doesn't play a lot of long balls, but likes the control game. I always wanted us to play more of a control game last year, but we seemed to have no system at all.

Half of passing is having someone to pass to. Considering that most competitive U15 teams exhibit better off the ball movement than TFC does, it's not entirely fair to lay the blame at Robbo's feet.

Yohan
12-18-2009, 10:29 AM
Half of passing is having someone to pass to. Considering that most competitive U15 teams exhibit better off the ball movement than TFC does, it's not entirely fair to lay the blame at Robbo's feet.
this is so true.

one of the reasons why long ball gets attempted

I_AM_CANADIAN
12-18-2009, 10:40 AM
there aren't many DMs in MLS who can do the things you're asking for. only guy that comes to my mind is that dirty hippie Kyle Beckerman. most DMs in MLS don't go forward often

play isn't developed in MLS that you don't see DMs like you'd see in top leagues of the world in MLS.

actually, JDG can play the DM role that you're asking lol
Shalrie Joseph can do that and more.

And I'm sure all the Barrett fanboys will be happy about this...

Yohan
12-18-2009, 10:46 AM
Shalrie Joseph can do that and more.

it really depends. Joseph has proven that he has the stuff for offence, but only a lot this season because due to injuries, Joseph played in more advanced role and put in some goals.

Joseph normally don't play up front much, except in set piece situations where his 6 feet 3 frame can cause havoc. In open plays, he seems more ease at playing just outside the box, but this may be partially due to Steve Ralston getting pretty old and dont have pace, and not wanting to get caught on a counterattack. Certainly don't expect Joseph to spray passes everywhere

But yeah, he is the best DM in the league

a_billi
12-18-2009, 04:32 PM
Vitti was playing out of position most of the season. He was never utilized properly by our coaches. I would of liked half another season with him at least at a much reduced rate. And we keep shitty Chad Barret over Vitty wow. I hope Vitti goes to another MLS team that has a real coach and uses him properly and watch this tear shit up when we have sherk version 2.0 who can t even score with a drunk madonna. I hate to say it but if this was another player from the British Isles some people not most would have wanted him for another seas including Mo and some fans no offense or anything.

Beach_Red
12-18-2009, 05:15 PM
Vitti was playing out of position most of the season. He was never utilized properly by our coaches. I would of liked half another season with him at least at a much reduced rate. And we keep shitty Chad Barret over Vitty wow. I hope Vitti goes to another MLS team that has a real coach and uses him properly and watch this tear shit up when we have sherk version 2.0 who can t even score with a drunk madonna. I hate to say it but if this was another player from the British Isles some people not most would have wanted him for another seas including Mo and some fans no offense or anything.


The MLS roster rules and salary cap are hard to get used to. Would Barrett have a job if it wasn't for the domestic requirement? Would Vitti still be here if the team could carry a couple more players and a higher salary cap?

CretanBull
12-18-2009, 05:26 PM
Vitti was playing out of position most of the season. He was never utilized properly by our coaches. I would of liked half another season with him at least at a much reduced rate. And we keep shitty Chad Barret over Vitty wow. I hope Vitti goes to another MLS team that has a real coach and uses him properly and watch this tear shit up when we have sherk version 2.0 who can t even score with a drunk madonna. I hate to say it but if this was another player from the British Isles some people not most would have wanted him for another seas including Mo and some fans no offense or anything.

He just didn't fit in here. He was brought in as a striker and it very quickly became obvious that he wasn't going to score goals. He was given time playing off the striker but couldn't match what Guevare or De Ro did in that spot. He was put outwide and couldn't do anything there. Vitti will always be the guy who would do a dazzling series of moves with the ball, then cough it up.

Yohan
12-18-2009, 05:40 PM
He just didn't fit in here. He was brought in as a striker and it very quickly became obvious that he wasn't going to score goals. He was given time playing off the striker but couldn't match what Guevare or De Ro did in that spot. He was put outwide and couldn't do anything there. Vitti will always be the guy who would do a dazzling series of moves with the ball, then cough it up.
it seems to take most Argies tends to take a while, from half season to full season to adapt to physical play of MLS. guys like Claudio Lopez, Javier Morales, Shitlicker all took a while to get used to MLS. on other hand, Christian Gomez and Pablo Ricchetti made impact sooner

if Vitti went to a club that can use an AM, like DC or NE, because both Ralston and Gomez are getting pretty darn old, it could get interesting.
Chicago needs to fill in hole that Blanco leaving made. Seattle could use an AM to link up with Ljungberg on right.

CretanBull
12-18-2009, 05:58 PM
He could be successfull on another team, but he was given his chance here and it was clear he wasn't going to take starts away from Guevara or De Ro so we have no use for him. I'm not confident enough in his finishing for him to play a true AM role, but he could be the transition CM who picks up the ball deep and moves it forward.

Yohan
12-18-2009, 06:04 PM
He could be successfull on another team, but he was given his chance here and it was clear he wasn't going to take starts away from Guevara or De Ro so we have no use for him. I'm not confident enough in his finishing for him to play a true AM role, but he could be the transition CM who picks up the ball deep and moves it forward.
if he's going to be a CM, he's going to need to bulk up and step up hi defensive game big time

CretanBull
12-18-2009, 06:11 PM
Which kinda comes full circle and leads me to my opinion of him - he's a good player, who doesn't really play any particular role very well.

v00d00daddy
12-18-2009, 06:34 PM
He could be successfull on another team, but he was given his chance here and it was clear he wasn't going to take starts away from Guevara or De Ro so we have no use for him. I'm not confident enough in his finishing for him to play a true AM role, but he could be the transition CM who picks up the ball deep and moves it forward.

Agreed. But now Guevara is gone. It wouldn't have killed TFC to see if Vitti could play that role.

Who knows. Maybe Preki doesn't like his game.

One thing is for sure. If our midfield isn't bolstered in the off season we will be in for a long, boring, and most importantly, unsuccesful season of soccer.

I also agree with other previous posters. Vitti wasn't the greatest fit with this team AND I can't believe that we would choose Barrett over Vitti.

Vitti wasn't a good fit because this team is not built to play any kind of attractive football. TFC have been built in the mold of the 80's British style squad, and with the removal of guys like Vitti and Guevara it's only going to get worse. The mere fact that Barrett got more playing time and praise from this team and it's supporters is proof that we (in general) as supporters prefer guys that run and work hard but lack any kind of brains or skill (see: Barrett, Wynne, Brennan, Robbo) over guys who play with flair and vision.

I wonder if this is what Preki wants or what Mo wants. Only time will tell.

v00d00daddy
12-18-2009, 06:35 PM
Which kinda comes full circle and leads me to my opinion of him - he's a good player, who doesn't really play any particular role very well.

So why do we keep players around that are NOT good players and also don't paly any particular role very well.

ie: Barrett and Wynne.

CretanBull
12-18-2009, 06:45 PM
Agreed. But now Guevara is gone. It wouldn't have killed TFC to see if Vitti could play that role.


I think the idea is to put JDG in that spot.



I also agree with other previous posters. Vitti wasn't the greatest fit with this team AND I can't believe that we would choose Barrett over Vitti.


That's a false position, it's not as if we had to chose between getting rid of Vitti or Barrett and chose to keep Barrett. Vitti is gone because we were able to get rid of him (his contract was up), Barrett doesn't fit into the equation at all.



Vitti wasn't a good fit because this team is not built to play any kind of attractive football. TFC have been built in the mold of the 80's British style squad,


Not true at all, TFC weren't built in the mold of the 80's British style, they were built with no mold at all - and that was our problem. Cummins took the fall, but there isn't a coach in the world that could have made something out of team made up mostly of CMs.

CretanBull
12-18-2009, 06:54 PM
So why do we keep players around that are NOT good players and also don't paly any particular role very well.

ie: Barrett and Wynne.

I think Wynne is terrible and should be dealt ASAP. He doesn't have the brains to be a fullback or the skillset to be a winger, he's a sprinter and nothng more.

I'm willing to give Barrett (and all of our strikers for that matter) the benefit of the doubt because they just went through a full season of absolutely terrible service. Our team of CMs forced us to play everything down the middle - we had no width (Cummins got blamed for that, but what else could he do? we didn't have the players to do anything else). That made us the easiest team in the league to defend against - opposing backlines and midfielders cheated to the middle when defending knowing that we couldn't go wide. Its hard to be creative when the defenders know exactly what you're going to do, because play after play you literally only have one option - down the middle.

Barrett missed his share of oportunities, but lets see what he can do when the defenders don't know where the ball is coming from, lets see what he can do on a team that has some width and forces defenders to leave spaces, etc.

TFC OZZ
12-18-2009, 06:58 PM
it seems to take most Argies tends to take a while, from half season to full season to adapt to physical play of MLS. guys like Claudio Lopez, Javier Morales, Shitlicker all took a while to get used to MLS. on other hand, Christian Gomez and Pablo Ricchetti made impact sooner

if Vitti went to a club that can use an AM, like DC or NE, because both Ralston and Gomez are getting pretty darn old, it could get interesting.
Chicago needs to fill in hole that Blanco leaving made. Seattle could use an AM to link up with Ljungberg on right.

I'm assuming your referring to GBS.

:D

That sir, was funny.

ag futbol
12-19-2009, 11:12 AM
I think Wynne is terrible and should be dealt ASAP. He doesn't have the brains to be a fullback or the skillset to be a winger, he's a sprinter and nothng more.

I'm glad everyone has come around to this fact. Early on, people were always talking about the ability of him to improve those areas of his game, but he hasn't at all. Unfortunately for Marvell, i think he also had the misfortune of being under the wrong set of people in his first three years here.

It can not be understanded how much of a liability Brennan and Wynne are to the backline. I think every team in MLS knew Jimmy didn't close down the space fast enough which lead to a ton of crosses always coming in on that flank.

We definately should have rang the register when teams were calling for him in 08.

Beach_Red
12-19-2009, 12:21 PM
That's a false position, it's not as if we had to chose between getting rid of Vitti or Barrett and chose to keep Barrett. Vitti is gone because we were able to get rid of him (his contract was up), Barrett doesn't fit into the equation at all.




It's not really so false, given the domestic requirements of MLS - Barrett and Wynne are Americans so their value is inlfated in this league. Vitti, as an international, has a larger pool of potential players to compete with and be compared to.

Yohan
12-19-2009, 12:24 PM
It's not really so false, given the domestic requirements of MLS - Barrett and Wynne are Americans so their value is inlfated in this league. Vitti, as an international, has a larger pool of potential players to compete with and be compared to.
i'm going to bet that Barrett is on a guaranteed contract right now

Inklink
12-19-2009, 01:59 PM
Vitti ... meh.

Felinga: I liked what I saw, honestly. Surprised he was cut.

Guevara: we have a deep midfield. But I kinda' wanted a TFC player to be in the WC ;) .

ArmenJBX
12-19-2009, 02:10 PM
Vitti ... meh.

Felinga: I liked what I saw, honestly. Surprised he was cut.

Guevara: we have a deep midfield. But I kinda' wanted a TFC player to be in the WC ;) .

Maybe Marvell or Cronin make it...who knows :D

Beach_Red
12-19-2009, 04:19 PM
i'm going to bet that Barrett is on a guaranteed contract right now


With Yura Movsisyan leaving RSL for the Danish league a guy like Barrett started to make more sense. He is right about at that "MLS sweet spot" where he won't be going to any other league.

v00d00daddy
12-19-2009, 04:23 PM
With Yura Movsisyan leaving RSL for the Danish league a guy like Barrett started to make more sense. He is right about at that "MLS sweet spot" where he won't be going to any other league.

He won't be going to any other league because no other league will take him.

His hard work and passion mask his lack of touch and finish.

JonO
12-19-2009, 04:38 PM
He won't be going to any other league because no other league will take him.

His hard work and passion mask his lack of touch and finish.
His touch isn't that bad. He's inconsistent. His finish speaks for itself unfortunately.

TFC07
12-19-2009, 04:38 PM
How long do we have to keep Barrett? Seriously, give up your ego Mo, and just admit it was a mistake to sign Barrett for 4 years. Either trade Barrett or buy his contract out. We need talent/skilled players who can handle the pressure playing in Toronto. Players like Barrett will probably do better in smaller market teams where there isn't a huge pressure to perform. I am sick of seeing better players (and in some cases, cheaper players) than Barrett and Robbo getting cut while those two bums are still on the team. :picard:

Beach_Red
12-19-2009, 06:49 PM
He won't be going to any other league because no other league will take him.

His hard work and passion mask his lack of touch and finish.

Yes, exactly that was my point. And because he's American it makes him an ideal MLS player. If the salary cap goes up or domestic requiements drop then he'd likely be dropped too, but under these conditions....

jazzy
12-19-2009, 09:03 PM
Agreed. But now Guevara is gone. It wouldn't have killed TFC to see if Vitti could play that role.

Who knows. Maybe Preki doesn't like his game.

One thing is for sure. If our midfield isn't bolstered in the off season we will be in for a long, boring, and most importantly, unsuccesful season of soccer.

I also agree with other previous posters. Vitti wasn't the greatest fit with this team AND I can't believe that we would choose Barrett over Vitti.

Vitti wasn't a good fit because this team is not built to play any kind of attractive football. TFC have been built in the mold of the 80's British style squad, and with the removal of guys like Vitti and Guevara it's only going to get worse. The mere fact that Barrett got more playing time and praise from this team and it's supporters is proof that we (in general) as supporters prefer guys that run and work hard but lack any kind of brains or skill (see: Barrett, Wynne, Brennan, Robbo) over guys who play with flair and vision.

I wonder if this is what Preki wants or what Mo wants. Only time will tell.

Have to agree, are we going to be, a team that is only defensive and boring? I can take this if we have a game of ball control, but who has the skill for this. Hardly saw this last year. And passing? Ha