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sulfur
12-11-2009, 04:48 PM
According to one of John Molinaro's recent tweets:

https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/6579230421


Paul Winsper parts ways with Toronto FC. story to follow.

I'm getting all verklemmt. Discuss.

billyfly
12-11-2009, 04:51 PM
Being discussed in Dec 11th news thread as well.

sulfur
12-11-2009, 04:54 PM
I hate it when things get hidden in there after the start of the day. :(

They're so easy to miss when you're doing a scan of the "what's new", especially since 90% of the contents in there seem to be general discussions most days.

JDG
12-11-2009, 04:58 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/12/11/sp-tfc-winper.html

Parkdale
12-11-2009, 05:01 PM
oh crap.

DreFuss
12-11-2009, 05:04 PM
Meh.

MartinUtd
12-11-2009, 05:15 PM
Is he going to Plymouth with Carver?

http://www.plymouth.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=180690

Gixmo
12-11-2009, 05:15 PM
That's a loss for sure..

canadian_bhoy
12-11-2009, 05:36 PM
Wow - sports director at Nike. What an amazing job opportunity for him. Congrats to Paul W and thanks for all you did with TFC. Hopefully they have parted on good terms and Paul W can help TFC find a replacement.

Blizzard
12-11-2009, 05:41 PM
That's a loss for sure..

Maybe. Let's see what happens next. If we suddenly start getting a lot of muscle injuries, then ya, Winsper will be a loss.

If all of a sudden our final 15 minutes is better (and let's be honest here, physical fatigue leads directly to mental mistakes), maybe we won't miss Windy too much.

johnmolinaro
12-11-2009, 05:41 PM
He's a classy guy. best of luck to him
john

Fishnicker
12-11-2009, 05:54 PM
Damn. He was very good. Hope the next trainer isn't a salt tablets and laps guy.

All the best to you and your family Windy.

Gixmo
12-11-2009, 06:23 PM
Maybe. Let's see what happens next. If we suddenly start getting a lot of muscle injuries, then ya, Winsper will be a loss.

If all of a sudden our final 15 minutes is better (and let's be honest here, physical fatigue leads directly to mental mistakes), maybe we won't miss Windy too much.

Fair enough, I really don't think Winsper is entirely at fault for the final 15 - Sure, the gas was out of the tank but I believe it's a 50/50 when it comes to stamina versus drive to win. We didn't really concede because we 'were' slow (Exception Nick Garcia).. It was mostly poor positional football and tactics that cost us in the long run.

Yeoman
12-11-2009, 06:29 PM
"Nike has set up a new division called SPARQ, which is their training arm. I'll be working with teams from all over the world as a training resource for coaches. … It's going to be a global resource for all different sports."

or is he really giving us an edge by making everyone else have problems with fitness with 15 remaining ;)
think of it that way

ManUtd4ever
12-11-2009, 06:31 PM
I'm sure Winsper is a classy individual and I congratulate him for his new job opportunity at Nike but to be honest, I wasn't overly impressed with TFC's overall level of fitness the past 2 seasons, specifically endurance and stamina. More often than not, as we all know, TFC faded badly down the stretch and could not match the level of intensity of their opponents which lead to countless squandered victories and draws. I realize poor strategy played a part as well but realistically, TFC was simply out of gas towards the end of most of their matches...

ag futbol
12-11-2009, 06:55 PM
Well a lot of our short-comings simply couldn't be solved by a fitness coach. The style of play we chose to play (and often the players we had on our roster to implement it) didn't lend itself to the type of league MLS is.

Sure the thing it's become known for has a lot to do with fitness and physicality, but there is a pretty heavy tactical element related to possession and energy conservation that with the exception of Cummins about 50% of the time, TFC was completely naive about. You can take a very fit player (who's trained to perfection) but if you deploy him the wrong way he's still going to fatigue before the end of the game.

Needless to say i don't think Winsper is a bad fitness coach, but he's not worth freaking out about either.

Mark in Ottawa
12-11-2009, 07:16 PM
He's a classy guy. best of luck to him
john
I wonder if Paul Winsper can recommend a good replacement?
He is obviously well respected in the industry and must have a wealth of contacts that TFC can draw upon.

I never met him but did watch some of his stuff on GolTV.

I wish him best of luck in his future endeavours.

MUFC_Niagara
12-11-2009, 07:18 PM
This is NOT good. I think out fitness will be exposed next year. As per Robbo "Our fitness was NOT the problem in giving up late goals. Everyone was in great shape. PW is a true professional."

carefree_cfc
12-11-2009, 07:44 PM
ill miss "train like a pro" lol

Detroit_TFC
12-11-2009, 07:52 PM
I don't blame him. This is more than just another physio assignment. This is big time, and shows what an valuable asset we had while we had him.

Oldtimer
12-11-2009, 08:51 PM
Remember that Paul Winsper could only train the team at 60% intensity because of the turf. I'm sure that affected their fitness, but it wasn't his fault.

I was quite impressed with what I saw of his training techniques. He really knows his stuff.

Brooker
12-11-2009, 09:05 PM
there's always a few "experts" around here lol.

zeelaw
12-11-2009, 09:13 PM
dunno what to think

DOMIN8R
12-11-2009, 09:49 PM
Big loss for our team. Windy was always positive and upbeat. Passionate about his profession. Larger than life personality.

Pure class. When I had a major footy injury over a year ago - he had heard about it and made a point of sending me an e-mail encouraging me to get better. Can't say enough good about the guy.

Good move by Nike - ahead of a World Cup year in which the US competes and as Nike rebuilds after it's downsizing earlier this year.

More evidence that he was a highly desirable commodity............

v00d00daddy
12-11-2009, 10:41 PM
Seriously guys...we're going to worry about a strength and fitness guy now?

Yes..the team needs one. In fact, they need a good one......and I'm sure that there are tons of people qualified to keep the guys fit and in shape.

I hope he does well in his new job but I'm not going to worry about how that HUGE gap will be replaced.

Priorities...and Strength and Fitness guru is not one of them.

DOMIN8R
12-11-2009, 10:46 PM
Everyone is important, from the TFC Equipment Manager to an MLSE Board of Director.

Yeah. Seriously.

Huyton
12-12-2009, 12:29 AM
Is this part of a clear out by Preki? Will he bring in his own guy?

menefreghista
12-12-2009, 01:22 AM
Remember that Paul Winsper could only train the team at 60% intensity because of the turf. I'm sure that affected their fitness, but it wasn't his fault.

This sounds like a bullshit excuse. Did all the other MLS teams playing on fake turf train 60%?


Seriously guys...we're going to worry about a strength and fitness guy now?

Yes..the team needs one. In fact, they need a good one......and I'm sure that there are tons of people qualified to keep the guys fit and in shape.

Agreed.

Winsper has been totally over-hyped by the TFC PR machine.

How is it that hundreds of professional sports teams never mention their fitness staff yet they seem to do okay. Yet TFC has to turn their guy into a celebrity. How fucking weird.

I find it hard to believe that this man is irreplaceable.

Kaz
12-12-2009, 08:49 AM
Is this part of a clear out by Preki? Will he bring in his own guy?
Yep I'm sure of it.

Preki called up Nike and said, look I've got this strength coach I don't want... can you offer him an insanely great job so he won't have any choice but turn down his contract renewal. ;)

scooter
12-12-2009, 08:51 AM
this is a loss and i wish paul all the best for the future
but we have lots of home grown talent capable of doing this job
paolo who works with serbian white eagles and womens national team
could easily step in and do the job

CretanBull
12-12-2009, 08:55 AM
I'm sure that Winsper is a great guy and a great trainer, but honestly in 30 odd years of following footy I've never heard so much made of a trainer in my entire life. I wish him the best. I'm not worried about being able to replace him.

ensco
12-12-2009, 08:55 AM
I actually don't know how tough it is to fill these shoes, or how big a loss it is, and I think anyone would have taken that job....

but the global point here is that the turnover at TFC of players and coaches has been breathtaking.

I'd be interested to see stats of exactly how many players suited up for all the MLS teams 2007-2009, and how many coaches each team had. I'd bet we're top of both lists by a mile.

We're an expansion team. Every year.

MisterMacphisto
12-12-2009, 08:57 AM
The majority of the team looked completely flat-footed towards the end of every game.

I also find this quote interesting from him:


"I've been working for Nike for three years, and Toronto FC have been absolutely fantastic about that. They've allowed me to travel all over the globe with Nike, even during the MLS season," Winsper explained.

Hmmm...

Alll I can say is, for whatever strength training coach we get next year, they won't be able to repeatedly use the Field Turf as an excuse.

FluSH
12-12-2009, 09:06 AM
Congratz to Paul! Best of luck...

UltraFootyKWC
12-12-2009, 09:57 AM
Congrats to Paul. That sounds like a great job. It'll be nice to have something permanent instead of a string of one or two year contracts.

I'm not suprised by this. I half expected him to go once Carver left. And once Cummins left, I knew this was just a matter of time.

He was definately a class guy, and a leader in his field, but I don't think that we'll have a problem filling his shoes.

koryo
12-12-2009, 10:00 AM
Realistically, Winsper was our trainer. I don't think this is the end of the world. I mean, there are other fitness coaches who are as good if not better.

I'm not saying that Winsper wasn't good at his job, but perhaps a little over-hyped.

Damien
12-12-2009, 10:18 AM
His position is in the budget anyway... i'm not worried. Best of luck to him.

Inklink
12-12-2009, 02:15 PM
Good luck Windy!

(Not that big of a deal though, IMO)

ilikemusic
12-12-2009, 05:07 PM
I think this might be the first team I have ever followed where the most overrated member of the club was the head trainer.

boban
12-12-2009, 06:17 PM
^^ Here here.
No loss here. Let's move on.

Brooker
12-13-2009, 07:31 PM
I'm sure that Winsper is a great guy and a great trainer, but honestly in 30 odd years of following footy I've never heard so much made of a trainer in my entire life. I wish him the best. I'm not worried about being able to replace him.


uh huh. i agree completely. not the slightest bit concerned about this.

Hitcho
12-14-2009, 10:39 AM
Crap - this is a big loss, whatever people might make of it. The final 15 goals were nothing to do with Winsper and it was an idiot, knee-jerk thread on here that started that ridiculous assumption unfortunately. We conceded late goals because we sat back and hoofed it long and didn't have the defensive nous to deal with the constant pressure that brought about.

Winsper has a sterling reputation and was hugely well liked by everyone in the club as much for his enthusiasm and ability as anything else. I think there was merit in his explanation as to the 60% limit because of the turf and frankly I wonder if other fitbness coaches would even have been able to factor that in properly.

At the end of the day, this is MLS and as long as we have a good fitness coach that should be enough, but having a world class one brings some advantage, especialyl if we ever have a season where we get a decent CCL run and make the play offs. In the curcial games at the end of that kind fo season, every physical benefit you can get from havign a world class fitness coach is vital.

Best of luck Paul, feel free to come back if Nike doesn't turn out to be everything you hoped for mate! ;)

redtfcred
12-14-2009, 11:30 AM
2 to 1 odds TFC don't even bother with that position anymore ..

guess we will see

TFC07
12-14-2009, 12:07 PM
Good god people, get a grip. He is nothing but glorified gym teacher. This isn't big loss at all. He is replaceable!

BTW, I wouldn’t be surprised if the next fitness coach does a better job than Winsper.

Yohan
12-14-2009, 12:08 PM
2 to 1 odds TFC don't even bother with that position anymore ..

guess we will see
it'd be a mistake

i wonder how much of Winsper's program TFC will keep using

Toronto_Bhoy
12-14-2009, 12:45 PM
Most disappointed guy will be Lee Godfrey…

Seriously, he will be replaced and I've got to say there was a marked improvement in this team's fitness and conditioning from Season 1 to 2…and I'm convinced Winsper was the difference.

Good luck to him and his family…Beaverton is a beautiful place (no that's not a joke…it really is!).

TFC07
12-14-2009, 12:52 PM
Most disappointed guy will be Lee Godfrey…

Seriously, he will be replaced and I've got to say there was a marked improvement in this team's fitness and conditioning from Season 1 to 2…and I'm convinced Winsper was the difference.

Good luck to him and his family…Beaverton is a beautiful place (no that's not a joke…it really is!).

Who was the team's fitness coach in the first season?

sulfur
12-14-2009, 01:08 PM
We didn't have one, other than the ~10 days pre-season that Winsper worked with the squad. Few of whom stayed with the team for the whole season.

redtfcred
12-14-2009, 02:07 PM
Who was the team's fitness coach in the first season?


In season One it was Mo johnstone ....
beer and white wine

Hitcho
12-14-2009, 03:22 PM
Good god people, get a grip. He is nothing but glorified gym teacher. This isn't big loss at all. He is replaceable!

BTW, I wouldn’t be surprised if the next fitness coach does a better job than Winsper.

That's a very blinkered view. The modern game is far more dependent on fitness and conditioning than at any time in the past and the sports science in tailoring your training to avoid or rehab injuries is way more developed now than it has ever been and is becoming a key part of fitness training.

Put simply - take two roughly equal teams, one with a superb fitness coach and one without any fitness coach and the "with coach" team will run rings around the other one. So the position is far mroe than a glorified gym teacher.

Agree that he's replaceable, everyone is, but he's also seen as a leader in his field and replacing anyone on the team with a below-par substitute is not good news. And that could mean us feeling the pinch more in busy parts of the season and in crucial end of season games. To me, that's a big loss because we'll only really notice it at key times.

As for the next coach doing a "better job" - he'll have a much easier job without the turn to contend with, that's for sure, so the overall fitness from season 3 to season 4 should improve. Question is, how much better would it have been if Winsper had stayed on without the turf to deal with?

Disaster? No. Material loss? Yes.

wzhxvy
12-14-2009, 03:40 PM
Can we get that chick from GOL TV to be the fitness coach...maybe instead of the seriously retarded interviews we can see her sweat and hopefully keep her mouth shut for more than 5 seconds...

Congrats to Paul...

Not worried about this...its a glamourized gym teacher job with a bit of nutrition sprinkled for good measure...

MUFC_Niagara
12-14-2009, 03:48 PM
Good god people, get a grip. He is nothing but glorified gym teacher. This isn't big loss at all. He is replaceable!

BTW, I wouldn’t be surprised if the next fitness coach does a better job than Winsper.

At best, this comment is laughable. What a stupid thing to say.

DOMIN8R
12-14-2009, 04:11 PM
Not worried about this...its a glamourized gym teacher job with a bit of nutrition sprinkled for good measure...

Of course. Because Nike (with revenue in excess of $18.6 billion USD in its fiscal year 2008) typically selects gym teachers to work in with their flagship division called SPARQ (International Professional Training and Development Division), as Sports Performance Director -working with teams from all over the world as a training resource for coaches and as a global resource for all different sports.

It's just that no other gym teachers were willing to take the job.:rolleyes:

wzhxvy
12-14-2009, 04:32 PM
Of course. Because Nike (with revenue in excess of $18.6 billion USD in its fiscal year 2008) typically selects gym teachers to work in with their flagship division called SPARQ (International Professional Training and Development Division), as Sports Performance Director -working with teams from all over the world as a training resource for coaches and as a global resource for all different sports.

It's just that no other gym teachers were willing to take the job.:rolleyes:

Based on that, every employee of a DOW 30 company is a genius...I am sure GE, IBM, AXP hire people of all levels...to say he was hired by NIKE does not really mean anything to me. I dont know how much he was making at TFC...but I imagine a a regular middle management job at NIKE would have been a move up for him. Now if NIKE issued a press release about his hiring, I would think otherwise :-)

Listen, I dont know the guy, but he has been hyped to death as god's gift to fitness coaches and we were the worst team in the last 15 minutes...at home and on the road...yes on grass too people. Its not all his fault but he has responsibility for team fitness and should be at least partially accountable for that.

DOMIN8R
12-14-2009, 04:36 PM
We can agree to disagree on all 4 points you make in the above post.

wzhxvy
12-14-2009, 04:40 PM
We can agree to disagree on all 4 points you make in the above post.

all good man

Hitcho
12-14-2009, 05:23 PM
Based on that, every employee of a DOW 30 company is a genius...I am sure GE, IBM, AXP hire people of all levels...to say he was hired by NIKE does not really mean anything to me. I dont know how much he was making at TFC...but I imagine a a regular middle management job at NIKE would have been a move up for him. Now if NIKE issued a press release about his hiring, I would think otherwise :-)

Listen, I dont know the guy, but he has been hyped to death as god's gift to fitness coaches and we were the worst team in the last 15 minutes...at home and on the road...yes on grass too people. Its not all his fault but he has responsibility for team fitness and should be at least partially accountable for that.

We sucked in the final 15 mins of games but we sucked because we were conceding goals, not because the team were dead on their feet. Not once did I see anyone frm TFC collapsing on the filed (except Chad when he first arrived, and Winsper actually got rid of that problem for him in large part). We conceded late goals because we sat back, hoofed the ball long and then couldn't deal with the pressure being exerted by the other side while we posed no threat up front. If anything, all that ball chasing should have tired the lads out more, but it didn't seem to. And that's with Winsper shaving down his schedules for the players by 60% because of the field turf issue.

Has he been overhyped? Yes, he probably has. That's probably because he's PL class and is about the only thing at TFC that is (apart from the new pitch being laid down). But that doesn't mean he wasn't fantastic at what he did and what he brought to the squad. Can he be replaced? Yes, but not to the same level I expect. Will that hurt us overall, to some degree? Yes, it almost certainly will. And most likely that will be late in games when we're looking to hold on, or late in the season when we're playing key (dare I say play off?) games - ie, at key times. So, to me, that's a material loss.

Fishnicker
12-14-2009, 05:28 PM
I'm hoping we don't miss Winsper - but a lot of the programs he instituted will continue.

They'll keep using his nutrition advice, his offseason training plan will continue, his restorative methods should remain, and the guys underneath him are still here. A new guy could come in and say its all crap and blow it up, but I don't think so.

I viewed Winsper as coming in to organize the back room training staff and bring it up to a professional level. I think he's leaving a solid foundation behind - and all those cool gadgets he and carver bought.

So how do we assess the new guy? I'm not a last15er so I won't be looking at goals conceded at the end of games. I'll be watching for those soft tissue type injuries and their recovery time. Of course the new guy will benefit from a lot of grass training so it might be hard to say if someone is better.

Fishnicker
12-14-2009, 05:36 PM
Hitcho - excellent post. The Barret example is exactly what a guy like Winsper can do. Remember the chicago fans complained that he couldn't last 90 the entire time he was there, which Winsper largely fixed. The pro MLS trainers in Chicago couldn't fix it for 3 years. I'm afraid we get a guy like chicago has.

v00d00daddy
12-14-2009, 05:53 PM
We sucked in the final 15 mins of games but we sucked because we were conceding goals, not because the team were dead on their feet. Not once did I see anyone frm TFC collapsing on the filed (except Chad when he first arrived, and Winsper actually got rid of that problem for him in large part). We conceded late goals because we sat back, hoofed the ball long and then couldn't deal with the pressure being exerted by the other side while we posed no threat up front. If anything, all that ball chasing should have tired the lads out more, but it didn't seem to. And that's with Winsper shaving down his schedules for the players by 60% because of the field turf issue.

Has he been overhyped? Yes, he probably has. That's probably because he's PL class and is about the only thing at TFC that is (apart from the new pitch being laid down). But that doesn't mean he wasn't fantastic at what he did and what he brought to the squad. Can he be replaced? Yes, but not to the same level I expect. Will that hurt us overall, to some degree? Yes, it almost certainly will. And most likely that will be late in games when we're looking to hold on, or late in the season when we're playing key (dare I say play off?) games - ie, at key times. So, to me, that's a material loss.

So Winsper gets a pass but the new guy won't?

Statement 1:
We lost because we gave up goals late but it wasn't Winspers fault.

Statement 2:
We will lose because we will give up late goals and it will be the new guys fault. Man I wish we still had Winsper.

Pure jokes.

Want me to say it?

This guy was hyped because he came from a league that most of the supporters adore. That immediately gave him credibility. (As mentioned above)

So....regardless of whether or not he helped the team, (which is such an difficult thing to judge anyway) some people put him on a pedestal and thought he could do no wrong.

It makes no sense.

I personally don't think a strength and fitness person can have the impact on a team that some of you suggest. I agree with Hitcho when he says it was more tactical (hoofing up field) than it was physical fitness.

However, if I agree (for arguments sake) that the fitness guy DOES have a lot of influence on the team, then I would have to say that Winsper failed.

IF a trainer can help a lot, then the amazing shape that the boys were in should have helped us more than it did.

Hitcho
12-14-2009, 11:38 PM
^ Every team in the league has a fitness coach or staff so clearly they are worth having. then the question becomes, how much extra can a good fitness coach squeeze out of a squad for you? that's very hard to judge, but i would say that the areas you will notice any incremental benefit from having an above average fitness and conditioning coach are: A) stamina at the end of games; B) stamina at the end of the season; C) recovery time between games; and D) reduction in training and performance related injuries like pulled hamstrings, muscle tears, etc.

Now, if you can get someone in that gives your team an advantage in all of the above areas over and above the other MLS fitness coaches, then you're doing well. My feeling is that Winsper gave us that - how much by is difficult to say though.

Anyways, he's gone so we move on. The new guy needs to be someone that dovetails with Preki's ideas and training systems so fingers crossed we get someone that can A) do that and B) do as well as Winsper did at the same time.

MUFC_Niagara
12-14-2009, 11:45 PM
All the people calling him a "glorified gym teacher" need to give their head a shake about sports in general. The people making these comments, it is painfully obvious that you have a never played sports at a level higher than your grade school. I played basketball at the varsity level in Canada, which isn't even high, and I can say that our athletic therapists, nutritionists, and fitness coaches made a huge difference in our overall team performance, something a gym teacher couldn't do. You are embarassing yourselves by generalizing the role to this extreme. So i'd suggest you stop making yourselves look rediculous.

menefreghista
12-15-2009, 09:27 AM
Wow, looks like a lot of TFC fans bought the propaganda on this guy.

The team marketed the shit out of Winsper to placate all those fans that have EPL envy. And it seems a lot of you have been brain washed quite nicely. Good for you.

As I've mentioned previously, how many other professional sports teams have turned their fitness trainer's into minor celebrities? TFC is the first team I can think of that talked up their trainer so much. If anything, it was another classic example of TFC feeding us their usually bullshit while the team was performing like crap. Its seems we love to hear stories like how great Winsper is because it hides us from the fact that our team has always performed like shit and Mo Johnston sucks at his job.

Winsper leaving is not the end of the world. MLSE has the money and the contacts to replace him easily.

Canada isn't a 3rd world country. We have lots of professionals in the same field as Winsper that can do an equally, if not better job.

Hitcho
12-15-2009, 12:02 PM
^ "marketed the shit out of Winsper"?! I saw a couple of TFC TV interviews with him, usually around the start of pre-season training, but how is that marketing the shit out of him? And how is it "proaganda" for TFC fans to "buy" into? Your post is baseless, unless you can back it up with something.

And if you read the thread, you'll see that no-one is claiming that it's the end of the world or that Winsper is not replaceable. So again, a baseless comment.

Everyone gets that he can and will be replaced. What you (and others) don't seem to get is that replacing him with someone who isn't as good in the role will harm the team to some extent. However you quantify it and whatever level of emphasis you place on it, replacing Winsper with someone less skilled or able will have some level of negative impact. Winsper is widely regarded as a leader in his field, so it's likely that we'll get a replacement who doesn't bring as much to the table as Winsper did. Therefore, backwards step to some extent.

No-one turned him into a minor celebrity, no chants were sung about him and no banners made. People who valued his contribution to the team are sorry to see him go. Other people seem to think that expressing this is tantamount to deifying the guy, which puzzles me.

He'll be replaced, and no doubt there are lots of candidates. The sky isn't falling. No-one is crying themselves to sleep over it. But some people are sorry to see him go and think it will be a loss to the team, including by the sounds of it a bunch of the players. So make of that what you will dude! :D

Fort York Redcoat
12-15-2009, 12:06 PM
Wow, looks like a lot of TFC fans bought the propaganda on this guy.

The team marketed the shit out of Winsper to placate all those fans that have EPL envy. And it seems a lot of you have been brain washed quite nicely. Good for you.

As I've mentioned previously, how many other professional sports teams have turned their fitness trainer's into minor celebrities? TFC is the first team I can think of that talked up their trainer so much. If anything, it was another classic example of TFC feeding us their usually bullshit while the team was performing like crap. Its seems we love to hear stories like how great Winsper is because it hides us from the fact that our team has always performed like shit and Mo Johnston sucks at his job.

Winsper leaving is not the end of the world. MLSE has the money and the contacts to replace him easily.

Canada isn't a 3rd world country. We have lots of professionals in the same field as Winsper that can do an equally, if not better job.

List or you're full of shit.

DOMIN8R
12-15-2009, 12:09 PM
Gentlemen - I suggest that you wave the white flag. It's always the same trolls stirring up the same shit.

Hitcho
12-15-2009, 01:01 PM
^ QFT

By the way, trade-mark is hyphenated in Canada. You've got the American spelling in your signature, which makes it look like you just ripped off that wording from (for example) the MLS website... :D

wzhxvy
12-15-2009, 01:19 PM
I recall an ongoing segment on GOL TV with Winsper and the skinny dude...

Darlofletch
12-15-2009, 01:44 PM
^ "marketed the shit out of Winsper"?! I saw a couple of TFC TV interviews with him, usually around the start of pre-season training, but how is that marketing the shit out of him? And how is it "proaganda" for TFC fans to "buy" into? Your post is baseless, unless you can back it up with something.

And if you read the thread, you'll see that no-one is claiming that it's the end of the world or that Winsper is not replaceable. So again, a baseless comment.

Everyone gets that he can and will be replaced. What you (and others) don't seem to get is that replacing him with someone who isn't as good in the role will harm the team to some extent. However you quantify it and whatever level of emphasis you place on it, replacing Winsper with someone less skilled or able will have some level of negative impact. Winsper is widely regarded as a leader in his field, so it's likely that we'll get a replacement who doesn't bring as much to the table as Winsper did. Therefore, backwards step to some extent.

No-one turned him into a minor celebrity, no chants were sung about him and no banners made. People who valued his contribution to the team are sorry to see him go. Other people seem to think that expressing this is tantamount to deifying the guy, which puzzles me.

He'll be replaced, and no doubt there are lots of candidates. The sky isn't falling. No-one is crying themselves to sleep over it. But some people are sorry to see him go and think it will be a loss to the team, including by the sounds of it a bunch of the players. So make of that what you will dude! :D

This is the sort of thing that people including myself are puzzled by. Who says he's regarded as a leader in his field? seriously, find me a quote where anyone is saying that.

he obviously knows what he's talking about, and he held a job at newcastle for a while, so good on him for that, and he may well be better than average in MLS, but a leader in his field?

I'm sorry to see him go, but I fully agree with people who say he was over hyped. even in your "no-one's over hyping him" defence, you over hype him.

Fort York Redcoat
12-15-2009, 02:01 PM
Winspers tears cure cancer.

MUFC_Niagara
12-15-2009, 02:29 PM
This is the sort of thing that people including myself are puzzled by. Who says he's regarded as a leader in his field? seriously, find me a quote where anyone is saying that.

he obviously knows what he's talking about, and he held a job at newcastle for a while, so good on him for that, and he may well be better than average in MLS, but a leader in his field?

I'm sorry to see him go, but I fully agree with people who say he was over hyped. even in your "no-one's over hyping him" defence, you over hype him.

http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/newcastleunited/chroniclesport/tm_headline=magpies-rocked-by-winsper-quit-blow&method=full&objectid=18091987&siteid=50081-name_page.html

Magpies rocked by Winsper quit blow

And whatever may be wrong with United at the moment - and there is a lot - no-one in the game ever accuses them of not being fit.


This was clearly seen at Manchester City on Saturday when, despite playing their 22nd game of the season and after a midweek trip to Watford where they played extra time, United were still the stronger team in the last 15 minutes.


Adds Roeder: "The last 15 minutes at the City of Manchester stadium were testimony to Paul Winsper's work here, and I just wish our late burst had produced three points as a final thank you to him."



To all the people saying we gave up late goals because of fitness....Glenn Roeder, a respected coach, disagrees. I'll take his word over any of the armchair athletes on this board thanks. We lost a really good coach. End of.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2008/05/28/geordie-boy-makes-it-big-72703-20984818/

This article talks of his GLOBAL reputation. Is it fair to assume that speaking of someone's global reputation, in the context of what we are talking about, implies they are a leader in thir field? I believe it does. There's your quote.

Dirk Diggler
12-15-2009, 02:47 PM
So at one job, his team was extremely fit in the last 15 mintues of the game and in the other, his team was absolute balls. If we are crediting him for his success with one team, why are we not chalking him for the failure with another?

menefreghista
12-15-2009, 02:50 PM
So at one job, his team was extremely fit in the last 15 mintues of the game and in the other, his team was absolute balls. If we are crediting him for his success with one team, why are we not chalking him for the failure with another?

You didn't get the memo? It was the fault of the tactics for that, not Winsper.

Darlofletch
12-15-2009, 02:53 PM
http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/newcastleunited/chroniclesport/tm_headline=magpies-rocked-by-winsper-quit-blow&method=full&objectid=18091987&siteid=50081-name_page.html

Magpies rocked by Winsper quit blow

And whatever may be wrong with United at the moment - and there is a lot - no-one in the game ever accuses them of not being fit.


This was clearly seen at Manchester City on Saturday when, despite playing their 22nd game of the season and after a midweek trip to Watford where they played extra time, United were still the stronger team in the last 15 minutes.


Adds Roeder: "The last 15 minutes at the City of Manchester stadium were testimony to Paul Winsper's work here, and I just wish our late burst had produced three points as a final thank you to him."



To all the people saying we gave up late goals because of fitness....Glenn Roeder, a respected coach, disagrees. I'll take his word over any of the armchair athletes on this board thanks. We lost a really good coach. End of.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2008/05/28/geordie-boy-makes-it-big-72703-20984818/

This article talks of his GLOBAL reputation. Is it fair to assume that speaking of someone's global reputation, in the context of what we are talking about, implies they are a leader in thir field? I believe it does. There's your quote.

I'll avoid a snarky comment on the "glenn roeder, a respected coach", part of it, because as you point out, he obviously knows more than me and probably most people on this board, but I think you could go to every club in the world and they'll say good things about their coaching staff/fitness guys.

And an article in the local paper about a local boy doing well elsewhwere in the world using the phrase global reputation hardly confirms it as such(i grew up in northeastern england, no-one can say they aren't overly proud of their boys).

He's obviously a very competent guy, i'd hav been happy enough for him to stay, i just don't think he's all that special or unreplaceable in his field at this level. if he's a leader in his field, why isn't a huge club coming along to pick him up?

MUFC_Niagara
12-15-2009, 02:54 PM
So at one job, his team was extremely fit in the last 15 mintues of the game and in the other, his team was absolute balls. If we are crediting him for his success with one team, why are we not chalking him for the failure with another?

Fitness isn't tactics. You're either fit or not. It's either, or. If he had a premiership football team fit anf is being credited as so. That, coupled with the players endorsement of him that team was in fact fit, strongly leads me to believe that it was a lack of concentration. The only reason people are saying we aren't fit is because we gave up late goals.....that's pretty weak.

Roogsy
12-15-2009, 03:05 PM
Fitness isn't tactics. You're either fit or not. It's either, or. If he had a premiership football team fit anf is being credited as so. That, coupled with the players endorsement of him that team was in fact fit, strongly leads me to believe that it was a lack of concentration. The only reason people are saying we aren't fit is because we gave up late goals.....that's pretty weak.

I agree with Tim.

Dirk Diggler
12-15-2009, 03:07 PM
Fitness isn't tactics. You're either fit or not. It's either, or. If he had a premiership football team fit anf is being credited as so. That, coupled with the players endorsement of him that team was in fact fit, strongly leads me to believe that it was a lack of concentration. The only reason people are saying we aren't fit is because we gave up late goals.....that's pretty weak.

There are more ways to measure the overall level of fitness than just the numbers of games missed due to injuries. I think conceding goals late in the game is a tremendous barometer for measuring fitness level. Even in games where we dominated possession, we would seem out of gas for the last 10-15 minutes of the game. I don't know how change of tactics can prevent pure and simple failure to mark your man.

And as darlofletch stated, you'd be hard pressed to find any coach badmouth a former member of his coaching squad right after he's left the organization, nor do I expect them to. Same goes for the players. Can you imagine the backlash if Brennan went out there and said that Winsper was the reason for the late game collapses? People would tell him to stop the bitching and pick up his game rather than shifting the blame onto others. Fact of the matter is that he was WAY over hyped for a position that is largely irrelevant as long as a team hires an average fitness team. I guess people would have been fine with him being a minor celebrity but all this "Best in the World" business is a little hard to swallow when the results are in stark contrast to such hyperbolic claims.

CoachGT
12-15-2009, 03:23 PM
I firmly believe that the late goals were more a symptom of lost focus and concentration than on fitness. A single measure of Winsper's effectiveness is Barrett - when he first arrived he couldn't play more thn 60-70 minutes without cramping up. This past season (while some may argue about ability) he was able to play complete games.

Winsper was brought in to help reduce the frequency of injury on the turf and improve overall fitness. I believe he accomplished both tasks - Ronnie O'Brien like injuries seemed to be significantly reduced after he wove his magic. With the coming of grass, one aspect of his mandate has been made less important (not redundant, though).

To me, the easy answer to the question of late goals is lack of fitness. But sometimes, the easy answer doesn't work. And I think this is one of those times.

This is a man who will be missed. Godspeed in your new role!

jabbronies
12-15-2009, 03:27 PM
He's worked with Nike, Newcastle and Toronto FC. if you guys think that any old trainer can do that, then you don't know what you're talking about. He obviously has some skill with what he does to have those 3 companies under his belt.

Loosing him is a blow to the team. Alot of these guys have been training under him for the past year. they've worked themseleves into his training system and now that he's gone they'll have to start fresh with a new trainer and a new system.

For guys like Barrett who's fitness was shit to begin with, this won't be good for them.

Is it the end of TFC? No it's not. but it is a blow to the team to loose one of it's critical backroom members.

Anyone who has played any sport at a level higher than rec should know this. And most people who understand the training that goes hand in hand with sports should know this.

Dirk Diggler
12-15-2009, 03:40 PM
He's worked with Nike, Newcastle and Toronto FC. if you guys think that any old trainer can do that, then you don't know what you're talking about. He obviously has some skill with what he does to have those 3 companies under his belt.



Nike and Newcastle are big organizations, yes, but come on man ... Toronto FC?

Also, I don't know what role he will be carrying out with Nike but that seems like a move out of his profession as I don't think he will be with any professional football teams. If we are citing his employers as a measure of skill, chronologically he has moved from Newcastle to Toronto FC to Nike ... that does not seem like progress to me.

But I digress. I think its irrelevant to cite his employers or his supposed superiority in skills. My only point is that I really do not believe that he is the best in the world, nor would it be possible to label anyone as such. We have big clubs like Toronto Maple Leafs, Raptors and Blue Jays within the city with massive budget and massive expenditures on support staff yet I have never heard anything about their fitness coaches. I don't think they've been hiring stiffs all the while either.

brad
12-15-2009, 03:50 PM
To me, the easy answer to the question of late goals is lack of fitness. But sometimes, the easy answer doesn't work. And I think this is one of those times.

Agreed. Also, fitness can only take a team so far.

Even at the top levels of football, teams often concede late goals when playing better teams. The better teams retain possession, make the ball do the work, make the opposition teams chase the ball, which makes the opposition work harder. The weaker team puts up with wave after wave of attack. They can't give their defenders enough time to take a breather, they tire quicker, and usually they end up conceding. This is common knowledge to anyone that has been watching the game for more than 3 years. You won't hear the fitness coach blamed when a team spends the last 30 minutes chasing the ball. And you can't just "get teams fitter" in order to stop this.

Back to TFC - how do our games end? We struggle to retain possession. We chase the ball, we sustain wave after wave of attack, we can't get the ball and retain possession to give our team a breather, and then we concede late goals.

Notice a similarity?

jabbronies
12-15-2009, 03:57 PM
If you are into training, trainers are actually a big deal (relatively speaking). And if you are into trainers, it matters to you that paul winsper left TFC or that Valter Di Salvo moved from United to Madrid or that the guy who trained under Dan Inosanto is now training at your studio.

These are all guys who have elite experience within their discipline. They are "stars" in their own right.

You may not think Toronto FC are a big organization, but they are. they are big enough for you to spend your time (and alot of it) on a TFC supporters website. They are big enough that not any old joe who has worked only at Fitness Connection as a trainer will probably not be considered for the TFC Fitness trainer job. I'm sure the next guy who comes in will have at minimum - MLS experience.






Nike and Newcastle are big organizations, yes, but come on man ... Toronto FC?

Also, I don't know what role he will be carrying out with Nike but that seems like a move out of his profession as I don't think he will be with any professional football teams. If we are citing his employers as a measure of skill, chronologically he has moved from Newcastle to Toronto FC to Nike ... that does not seem like progress to me.

But I digress. I think its irrelevant to cite his employers or his supposed superiority in skills. My only point is that I really do not believe that he is the best in the world, nor would it be possible to label anyone as such. We have big clubs like Toronto Maple Leafs, Raptors and Blue Jays within the city with massive budget and massive expenditures on support staff yet I have never heard anything about their fitness coaches. I don't think they've been hiring stiffs all the while either.

Hitcho
12-15-2009, 05:04 PM
This thread is going in circles!

I repeat my earlier posts, and will only add:

- on the Nike thing, try reading what his position actually involves and then see if you think it's progress or not. It is, and he's working across a range of sports now not just football. Nike will be entrusting some elite people to him. I'm willing to bet that the list of people they were prepared to consider for the job was very short. Winsper got it. To me, that speaks volumes about his reputation, recognition and ability on a worldwide scale. The best ever? No. Clearly very fucking good and way better than some joe schmoe who has done a fitness course at college? Definitely. You decide which of those two you'd want in charge of the fitness and conditioning of a team you support. I'd take Winsper every time.

- on his reputation - see above.

jloome
12-15-2009, 05:26 PM
This is the sort of thing that people including myself are puzzled by. Who says he's regarded as a leader in his field? seriously, find me a quote where anyone is saying that.

he obviously knows what he's talking about, and he held a job at newcastle for a while, so good on him for that, and he may well be better than average in MLS, but a leader in his field?

I'm sorry to see him go, but I fully agree with people who say he was over hyped. even in your "no-one's over hyping him" defence, you over hype him.

He was also Beckham's personal trainer for awhile. That generally buys you some credit in an occupation.

Whoop
12-15-2009, 05:32 PM
Wow....

I know the importance of a good fitness staff as I've seen it with my own eyes at a high level.

But by the same token, you guys are grossly overstating the importance of this one guy.

I mean wow....

DOMIN8R
12-15-2009, 05:36 PM
Beckham will carry on working with his personal trainer Paul Winsper during his summer holidays, but the fitness guru will not be going with him to Los Angeles


http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/latest/2007/06/11/becks-snubs-real-s-late-bid-115875-19277285/

Hitcho
12-15-2009, 05:38 PM
Wow....

I know the importance of a good fitness staff as I've seen it with my own eyes at a high level.

But by the same token, you guys are grossly overstating the importance of this one guy.

I mean wow....

:facepalm:

Oh for the love of God, please close the thread. Or, just copy and paste the last three pages a whole bunch of times because that;s where ti seems to be heading! :D

Whoop
12-15-2009, 05:42 PM
It's not like he is the cat's meow when it comes to trainers.

I guess North America is devoid of good trainers.

Again, yes it is EXTREMELY important. But you guys are going way overboard on how good he was.

For that this thread gets....

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/4368/947454-nice_thread_psyche_super.png

DOMIN8R
12-15-2009, 05:43 PM
Winspers tears cure cancer.

FACT!:p

Whoop
12-15-2009, 05:56 PM
And the Leafs used to pump up their head athletic therapist...

Remember Chris Broadhurst?

Yeah, neither do a lot of people.

Fishnicker
12-15-2009, 06:12 PM
The only way we're really going to know how fit the players were under winsper is to look at the fitness testing results. I know Winsper did many throughout the year in addition to pre and post season.

Did Barret's beep test increase since Chicago? How do Jimmy B's numbers look over his TFC career? How will the post-Winsper numbers compare?

Trying to calibrate aerobic fitness from players performance in games is impossible. Even pro-zone can't do that.

One crucial thing not mentioned is Winsper's experience with individual players. He felt that training gets better the more you know and work with the players. The new guy may not realise, for example, that Dero fries his CNS if he does more than 3 full intensity workouts in a month,when normally you would do 4. Dero probably doesn't know that and that's the kind of information that could be lost.

Sonny Cheeba
12-15-2009, 06:13 PM
Wow....

I know the importance of a good fitness staff as I've seen it with my own eyes at a high level.

But by the same token, you guys are grossly overstating the importance of this one guy.

I mean wow....

he was practically voltron dude....

i wish him luck, but it's no sweat that he's gone.

jabbronies
12-15-2009, 07:54 PM
And the Leafs used to pump up their head athletic therapist...

Remember Chris Broadhurst?

Yeah, neither do a lot of people.

hahahah the funny thing is, I do remember him.

Chris Broadhurst begins his third season as the Coyotes Head Athletic Therapist. Broadhurst joined the Coyotes prior to the 2005-06 campaign after working 16 seasons (1989-2005) as the Toronto Maple Leafs Head Athletic Therapist. Broadhurst joined the Maple Leafs in 1989-1990 after earning healthcare experience in the clinical sector and minor league baseball.
The 42-year-old Broadhurst received his start in Athletic Therapy in 1986 with the Championship Toronto Blue Jays’ Class A minor league affiliate in St. Catharines, Ontario.
He was honored to serve as Athletic Therapist at the 1998 and 2002 NHL All-Star Games and with the Canadian Men’s Hockey Team at the 1998 Winter Olympic Games in Nagano, Japan. Broadhurst also represented Canada at the 1997 and 2006 World Championships, winning gold medals at each tournament. He was also an Athletic Therapist for the Canadian squad that won the 1991 Canada Cup.
A certified member of the Canadian Athletic Therapist Association, he is also a Director of the Clinic for Sportsmedicine in Toronto which specializes in the treatment and care of athletes of all levels.
The Oakville, Ontario native received an undergraduate degree in sports injury management from Sheridan College. His many Post-Graduate Therapy Courses have allowed him to continue developing as a leader within the field.
Chris and his wife Kelly have five children: Austin, Michaela, Delaney, Payton and Quinn.

Whoop
12-15-2009, 11:12 PM
Who are the following people?

Lorenzo Buenaventura, Rui Filipe Da Cunha Faria, Mike Clegg, Glen Driscoll?

If you don't know... you've proved my point.

Shakes McQueen
12-16-2009, 12:25 AM
Still can't believe the resident experts here blame a trainer who was responsible for a Premier League side for a decade, for our club's inability to play solid football in the last 15 minutes.

There's a reason he's so well regarded, and pursued for lucrative performance positions by companies like Nike.

Our fitness was suspect because we spent most games chasing the ball for 60+ minutes. Period.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
12-16-2009, 12:31 AM
And for the people ragging on what a "celebrity" he was here - he wasn't. He was well known to people who slavishly follow this club, aka SUPPORTERS.

I hoghly doubt anyone not familiar with the TFC newsbeat in this city knows or cares about Paul Winsper.

- Scott

Whoop
12-16-2009, 12:33 AM
Not ragging on his "celebrity" but I can't believe people are acting like the sky is falling because he is leaving.

At the end of the day he doesn't put the ball in the net, or prevent the ball from going into the net and doesn't devise the tactics to be played.

Which goes back to my point where people are overstating his worth.

Shakes McQueen
12-16-2009, 12:45 AM
Not ragging on his "celebrity" but I can't believe people are acting like the sky is falling because he is leaving.

At the end of the day he doesn't put the ball in the net, or prevent the ball from going into the net and doesn't devise the tactics to be played.

Which goes back to my point where people are overstating his worth.

I don't think it's overstating to say that he was a very important part of our management fold, and finding someone who does the job equally well will be no easy task.

I don't think his departure makes or breaks our season.

- Scott

Whoop
12-16-2009, 12:49 AM
I think it's easier to find an athletic trainer, even a very good one, than it is to find a good coach or players.

As you stated, "I don't think his departure makes or breaks our season."

BINGO....

That was my point!

So why is everyone getting so worked up about it!?!?

Super
12-16-2009, 02:07 AM
Not sure why people would get worked up over Paul Winsper leaving us, but I did find the guy to be quite a nice guy. Having said that, I'm not sure he was right for us - and I say that because I was never all that impressed by the form of our players. Not blaming Paul, but maybe a new guy for the job would be the right move forward.

CretanBull
12-16-2009, 06:05 AM
There's not another supporter's group message board in the world that would have a 4 page thread about the departure of a fitness coach....and I have a feeling we're not done yet.

ag futbol
12-16-2009, 09:52 AM
I think it's easier to find an athletic trainer, even a very good one, than it is to find a good coach or players.

As you stated, "I don't think his departure makes or breaks our season."

BINGO....

That was my point!

So why is everyone getting so worked up about it!?!?
**ding ding ding** winner!

This thread is filled with backwards logic of "well we can't really blame him for our season" but "it's going to show next year when he leaves".

If the 24th minute is to be believed, he was in for a reduced role this year, which is not suprising (and nothing really to do with PW's ability but more like the correct role of a trainer). TFC probably spent way too much time on fitness last year and not enough on tactics. Players can only train so long, i think that time needs to be better spent than it was previously.

What we are **maybe** losing with PW, is more than made up for with a tactically sound coach. In summary this loss is a collective yawn IMO.

Fort York Redcoat
12-16-2009, 10:10 AM
There's not another supporter's group message board in the world that would have a 4 page thread about the departure of a fitness coach....and I have a feeling we're not done yet.


Paul Winsper knows Elvis is alive and where he is.

Winsper>MacGyver

Hitcho
12-16-2009, 01:43 PM
I think it's easier to find an athletic trainer, even a very good one, than it is to find a good coach or players.

As you stated, "I don't think his departure makes or breaks our season."

BINGO....

That was my point!

So why is everyone getting so worked up about it!?!?

If you read the thread, I don't think anyone is getting worked up about Winsper leaving. Some people have expressed that he will be a loss and missed by the club. Then they've been accused of glorifying him and giving him celebrity status and claiming the sky is falling because Winsper has gone. There are countless posts on here now saying "look, this is a loss, but I agree that it's not a disaster" but all they seem to get met with is more posts about "you're glorifying the guy".

That's why we are at four pages, because the whole thing just keeps going in circles. I'm now going in circles about explaining this and saying it's why we're going in circles.

The thread can be distilled down into about four posts:

1. He's gone.
2. Bummer - that's a blow.
3. Not really, he's replaceable.
4. Agreed, just hope we can get someone that isn't a backwards appointment.

Although, Forts' Elvis and MacGyver quips are quite funny... :D:D:D

MUFC_Niagara
12-16-2009, 08:01 PM
Still can't believe the resident experts here blame a trainer who was responsible for a Premier League side for a decade, for our club's inability to play solid football in the last 15 minutes.

There's a reason he's so well regarded, and pursued for lucrative performance positions by companies like Nike.

Our fitness was suspect because we spent most games chasing the ball for 60+ minutes. Period.

- Scott

Exactly. But as you say, the resident experts are well, experts. That's why their input on this matter is taking place on a message board and not with the club.

Anyway, this is is my last input. Winsper was an excellent conditioning coach and will be missed. The people who have generalized the role of conditioning coach have very clearly never played sports at a relatively important level. My coaches wouldn't have been happy if I came into training camp grossly out of shape and I was playing for free! I am pretty sure that a pro sports team like TFC, PAYING their players, would want one of the best possible people, and his staff, to make individualized off season and in season training regimes, personalized diet schedules, and specific skill set drills for their players.

A glorified gym teacher? Before I went home each summer, I spent 2 hours with our staff JUST to go over my individual off season plan, diet chart, and drills for individual areas, i.e. quickness, plymoterics, etc. that needed to be improved. I was also in constant contact with them throughout the summer emailing times, increases in weights, vertical increases, calorie intakes v calorie outputs, body fat index etc. I would love to see a PE teacher put that program together for 15 individuals, track results, and tweak programs.....and that was a university basketball team!

Now, try doing that for a professional football club with a roster double the size, twice the importance, and three times the pressure! The way Brennan trains is different from the way Marvell Wynne trains. Eg., i'm an ectomorph and have a body type that is difficult for keeping weight on. Each pound consists of 3500 calories. So, in order for me to put on 1 pound per week, I needed to intake 500 more calories per day than I used all the while eating right and making sure I wasn't putting on fat but muscle. At the same time, the weight increase could not effect my quickness, vertical, etc. Could a gym teacher take all of that into consideration and develop 2 programs.....off season/ in season? I doubt it.

Winsper will be consulting trainers from all different kinds of sports. He'll be taking into account the above factors AS WELL as how to develop athletes for every sport. Footballers train different from basketball players who train different than baseball players, who train different than hockey players. For Nike to give him the role of consulting trainers from every sport, who are training athletes in different ways, with different goals, is massive.

I am not saying Winsper was gods gift to fitness, but the people who called him a glorified gym teacher really pissed me off.

greatwhitenorf
12-16-2009, 08:35 PM
Hopefully MLSE used all their massive media and security know how to make sure they have videos of this year's bunch training and recordings of what Winsper was telling them.

Just get next year's group to do the same thing.

On second thought, looking at all them late fades, maybe not.