NASL to Become MLS2?

[James17930]

Okay-- this is just total speculation on my part . . . I'm just thinking out loud.

One of the stated intentions of the USL owners is that they wanted to try and 'compete with MLS to be the 1st tier league in N.A.' Obviously, that's a ludicrous idea (and now of course will never happen anyway).

Now, I realize that there were many other reasons why the TOA teams decided to split from USL and form the NASL, and this antagonistic view of the USL owners toward MLS may or not have been one of them, but now that the split has happened, it's obvious that many of the major players in the NASL are quite MLS friendly (the two most obvious being Lenarduzzi and Saputo given that both of their clubs will be in MLS by 2012).

So you have to wonder, what happens after the Whitecaps and Impact 'promote' to MLS? Are they just going to say 'see ya NASL' after having been largely responsible for making it happen? Or do you think they may want to try and bring those other teams along with them by in effect 'making it easy for MLS' to buy the NASL and turn it into MLS2?

Do you think this has all sort of been pre-arranged in a hush-hush, back room sort of way?

Personally, if so, I'm all for it.

But I'm curious what others think.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Your thread title totally got my hopes up... :facepalm:

I really, really doubt that the MLS would buy the NASL. For one thing, a proper league structure in football really requires more than just the 8 teams that will be left when Vancouver and Montreal leave. Also, the league has never really given much indication that they're even interested in having 2 divisions. Also, more likely than not the NASL teams would have to PAY to join the MLS structure, not the other way around.

A lot of people have speculated about this, but unfortunately I doubt it's gonna happen.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i do think it will be possible for the NASL to house several reserve teams for MLS teams but it wont be necessarily officially be the MLS2, especially as Vancouver had some issues with regards to their residency and joining the MLS

[Yohan]

i do think it will be possible for the NASL to house several reserve teams for MLS teams but it wont be necessarily officially be the MLS2, especially as Vancouver had some issues with regards to their residency and joining the MLS
that'd be pretty good idea, having MLS field reserve teams in NASL

problem is, most MLS team don't have enough guys to field a reserve squad

[Ossington Mental Youth]

that'd be pretty good idea, having MLS field reserve teams in NASL

problem is, most MLS team don't have enough guys to field a reserve squad

yeah not too sure how its gonna work quite yet, maybe its not mandatory? maybe itll be for youth players in the academy to get some games in before signing them?

[Chewy Unikronik]

They could always make loan arrangements

[Cashcleaner]

I don't see the NASL lasting too long, to be honest. How can it when the two most successful clubs are packing their bags for 2010 and possibly 2011, respectively?

I have heard a bit about a proposed MLS 2nd division (with no pro/rel system, however), but to be honest, I would be surprised if if ever becomes a reality. Not really sure what to make of this whole issue with the USL. Hopefully it will get resolved soon.

[Blizzard]

I don't see the NASL lasting too long, to be honest. How can it when the two most successful clubs are packing their bags for 2010 and possibly 2011, respectively?

I have heard a bit about a proposed MLS 2nd division (with no pro/rel system, however), but to be honest, I would be surprised if if ever becomes a reality. Not really sure what to make of this whole issue with the USL. Hopefully it will get resolved soon.

I think it's misleading to label it as an MLS 2nd Division.

It would be much more appropriate to label it as an equivalent of the AHL.

My hope is that the NASL will be in fact that equivalent of the AHL and in actuality be the reserve division of MLS (not the second division) just as the AHL is the reserve division of the NHL.

[Keystone FC]

Vancouver has gone on record that when they leave the NASL for the MLS they will put a NASL club in Edmonton as a sort of 'feeder' for the Vancouver squad, and I believe Montreal was going to do the same and place the club in either Laval or Quebec City (something along those lines). If Portland joins the NASL they may do the same when they come up to the MLS and leave a 'feeder' club in its place in the NASL. In a way the NASL would be alot like the AHL, at least for those clubs.
When it's all said and done and it happens the Canadian Champ Cup will be interesting with Vancouver battling their reserves for a place in the CONCACAF. That's IF the NASL gets it's Div. II status.

[Huyton]

So is TFC going to put at team in NASL as a "reserve" team?

How easy, or difficult will it be to move players from one league to another? Hopefully as easy as it is for Major League Baseball teams to move players from one level to the majors and back again.

[Blizzard]

So is TFC going to put at team in NASL as a "reserve" team?

How easy, or difficult will it be to move players from one league to another? Hopefully as easy as it is for Major League Baseball teams to move players from one level to the majors and back again.

I guess much will depend on the new agreement with the player's association.

If they can be treated as "reserves", it can probably be treated like the old reserve division was but if I'm a player, I have difficulty with this as the old "reserves" were part of the big club and played and trained with the big club while under this scenario, it really is a situation of being sent to the minors in a different city.

I still think it would be for the best for N.A. soccer but it just might be a little tricky making it work.

[rocker]

some MLS teams have loaned out players to the USL before. not sure how that works.
but I remember the old reserve league had strict conditions on playing time. So the union negotiated that players could not play a certain combined amount of minutes in a certain time period. For example, if a guy played 60 minutes in the MLS game, he couldn't play 60 in the reserve game over a certain number of days (I think.. can't find the original doc).

So any use of the NASL as a reserve team would come up against the union rules. I know MLBPA has negotiated all kinds of rules on how many times a guy can be called up and sent down before becoming a free agent, minimum salaries when a guy is called up, 40 man roster rules, etc. I think it would be pretty tough to work something out with the union in this regard.

[Blizzard]

some MLS teams have loaned out players to the USL before. not sure how that works.
but I remember the old reserve league had strict conditions on playing time. So the union negotiated that players could not play a certain combined amount of minutes in a certain time period. For example, if a guy played 60 minutes in the MLS game, he couldn't play 60 in the reserve game over a certain number of days (I think.. can't find the original doc).

So any use of the NASL as a reserve team would come up against the union rules. I know MLBPA has negotiated all kinds of rules on how many times a guy can be called up and sent down before becoming a free agent, minimum salaries when a guy is called up, 40 man roster rules, etc. I think it would be pretty tough to work something out with the union in this regard.

The issue of minutes played wouldn't be an issue as it is unlikely that a teams minor league affiliate will play in the same market. They have to draw fans on their own which is why Vancouver is rumoured to be looking at Edmonton as their feeder club.

Yes, the issue of demotions and call ups could be an issue unless the league is officially classified as a reserve league.

[Redcoe15]

So is TFC going to put at team in NASL as a "reserve" team?

How easy, or difficult will it be to move players from one league to another? Hopefully as easy as it is for Major League Baseball teams to move players from one level to the majors and back again.
Maybe that's where Hamilton comes in, once the proposed stadium gets built. And when Montreal soon joins MLS, they can have their feeder team in Ottawa.

[Cashcleaner]

I think it's misleading to label it as an MLS 2nd Division.

It would be much more appropriate to label it as an equivalent of the AHL.

My hope is that the NASL will be in fact that equivalent of the AHL and in actuality be the reserve division of MLS (not the second division) just as the AHL is the reserve division of the NHL.

Agreed. I've always thought that if such a partnership was to occur between MLS and a lower-tier league, it would be along those exact lines (ie: MLS teams with "farm" affiliates in the lower organization).

It certainly makes sense to me, though whether or not this is how the NASL is going to end up is beyond me.

[MarkEightThree]

Maybe that's where Hamilton comes in, once the proposed stadium gets built. And when Montreal soon joins MLS, they can have their feeder team in Ottawa.

Isn't the Montreal Attack from the CSL their reserve team? Honest question here.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Isn't the Montreal Attack from the CSL their reserve team? Honest question here.

yep, i was thinking about that too but youd gotta imagine theyd still keep that but then have another team as the competition in the NASL will surely be greater (im assuming)

[Oldtimer]

Isn't the Montreal Attack from the CSL their reserve team? Honest question here.

It is. I don't see Montreal wanting a team in Ottawa. Their goal is to develop Quebec players. Remember that Hydro Quebec holds an interest in the Impact.

[TFCRegina]

It is. I don't see Montreal wanting a team in Ottawa. Their goal is to develop Quebec players. Remember that Hydro Quebec holds an interest in the Impact.

They'll put a team in Quebec City most likely.

[TOBOR !]

could you see a time where MLS only expands into cities that exist in the NASL, and in a case where a franchise did not have an NASL team they'd have to begin in the NASL before moving to MLS (sort of in the indirect manner that Van/Mtl are).

From such an arrangement I could definitley see a level of cooperation developing between the two.

[James17930]

could you see a time where MLS only expands into cities that exist in the NASL, and in a case where a franchise did not have an NASL team they'd have to begin in the NASL before moving to MLS (sort of in the indirect manner that Van/Mtl are).

From such an arrangement I could definitley see a level of cooperation developing between the two.

I've thought about something like this too -- there's 'promotion' between the two, but it's more of an 'economic promotion'. When the team gets big enough support-wise and financially, they move up, and if a team really has its support dwindle, it's gets 'relegated.'

It would be purely about the numbers and not based on results.

[keem-o-sabi]

Isn't the Montreal Attack from the CSL their reserve team? Honest question here.

Yes they are the farm team. From my conversations with people involved, I think MLS is going to work with the NASL on developing markets to eventually move up.

The NASL folks have been in discussion with the NPSL as well to work together on the other end, where we would be possibly developing new markets for them to come in as well.

If it all comes together we may actually have something that works together. It's unfortunate the USL was so combative against working together and changing, they unfortunately made their bed and set their position long ago. When USL (any level 1, 2, pdl) wanted to scrimmage a NPSL side, they were subject to a 10k fine. When I owned the team in Buffalo, everytime we scrimmaged the Rhino's we had to keep it hush-hush as the refs were paid by the USL and they couldn't let it out or face the fine. One year we beat them 2-nil at their stadium with 9 of their starters playing...so that was fun!

Anyway, as long as US Soccer and the CSA certify them as a league I think this will be good. The USL unfortunately didn't make many friends in the US over the years as they were the only game in town and let it slip from their grasp, MLS, NPSL, and now NASL would not exist if they did things smarter instead of just for their owner's pocket books.

[jloome]

I'm sure MLS will deny it all day long but I've kind of suspected they, at the least, knew what was going on behind the scenes on this one.

They're looking for something to replace the reserve league where MLS players can get serious playing time, the owners think it will lower costs, usl doesn't want the mls affiliation and has stated such repeatedly, it solves a lot of problems, gives a second-tier for direct MLS development etc. etc. etc.

I'd be stunned if we didn't see a formal arrangement sometime around the start of the first NASL season.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I'm sure MLS will deny it all day long but I've kind of suspected they, at the least, knew what was going on behind the scenes on this one.

They're looking for something to replace the reserve league where MLS players can get serious playing time, the owners think it will lower costs, usl doesn't want the mls affiliation and has stated such repeatedly, it solves a lot of problems, gives a second-tier for direct MLS development etc. etc. etc.

I'd be stunned if we didn't see a formal arrangement sometime around the start of the first NASL season.

not only do i agree with you that its likely ot happen, i think its a great idea and i look forward to seeing it help develop our players