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Blizzard
12-04-2009, 12:48 AM
The Latest - Published Thurs Dec. 3 - 11:40pm

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/football/it-is-built-but-will-fans-come/article1388091/

In an open letter to Toronto Argonauts fans released yesterday, club president Bob Nicholson writes that the CFL team could play its home games at BMO Field as soon as next season.

Roogsy
12-04-2009, 12:51 AM
Holy crap, we're not going to get even one season before the meatheads tear up the brand new pitch.

Who was it that was saying we shouldn't worry about this???

Whoop
12-04-2009, 12:54 AM
So does the SkyDome just become a concert hall?

dclaro
12-04-2009, 12:55 AM
Can MLSE just buy BMO from the City?

Roogsy
12-04-2009, 12:57 AM
^ No...Exhibition Grounds is a political nightmare.

Whoop
12-04-2009, 12:58 AM
Even if the CFL says no to BMO, will this story ever end?

Blizzard
12-04-2009, 01:02 AM
So does the SkyDome just become a concert hall?

You've forgotten about the Blue Jays 81 home dates?


Even if the CFL says no to BMO, will this story ever end?

The CFL saying no is exactly what we need to hear. As long as the Argos shy away from spending big money, the CFL saying no to BMO should be the end of it.

Whoop
12-04-2009, 01:10 AM
You've forgotten about the Blue Jays 81 home dates?


No, but the SkyDome would be more pertinent if they were getting 55k like they were in the early 90s as opposed to the 18-20k they get now.

I never would have thought that when the Dome opened in '89 that it would be a white elephant.

I'm sure there's a developer out there that would love to buy the Dome, tear it down and build some condos.

Whoop
12-04-2009, 01:11 AM
The CFL saying no is exactly what we need to hear. As long as the Argos shy away from spending big money, the CFL saying no to BMO should be the end of it.

You would hope so.

But then the day MLSE pays to expand BMO to 30,000 seats, the Argos will be back.

Blizzard
12-04-2009, 01:21 AM
You would hope so.

But then the day MLSE pays to expand BMO to 30,000 seats, the Argos will be back.

Maybe so.

That said, it was interesting to hear PB on It's Called Football the other day discussing the construction of the Carlsberg Beer Patio / Stage referring to the fact that very heavy concrete footings were put into place there to support the infrastructure that goes with a rock and roll concert stage.

In otherwords, the lengthening of the field may be more costly than what one might think.

Ossington Mental Youth
12-04-2009, 01:38 AM
are they going to be able to do the necessary construction by then?
Doubtful
Its all talk, we should be scared and take action but theres no way theyd be in next season

Blizzard
12-04-2009, 01:50 AM
are they going to be able to do the necessary construction by then?
Doubtful
Its all talk, we should be scared and take action but theres no way theyd be in next season

They wouldn't necessarilly have to do any construction. If the CFL ok's a short field, the only thing they'd need to do is come up with larger dressing rooms.

With all the other CNE buildings surrounding the stadium, they'd probably make arrangements to get space in those.

It all comes down to the CFL's front office saying yay or nay.

prizby
12-04-2009, 02:43 AM
Cynamon and Sokolowski, who have owned the team since 2003, have said they will weigh their options this off-season, but moving to BMO Field, which is owned by the city of Toronto, would increase the likelihood that the two businessmen remain as owners. If not, B.C. Lions owner David Braley, who has lent the Argos owners money in the past, is expected to look at buying the team, possibly in concert with his sons.
The CFL constitution does not forbid one person or family from owning more than one team.




MLSE should buy the team and fold it :p

problem solved

kodiakTFC
12-04-2009, 03:54 AM
MLSE should buy the team and fold it :p

problem solved

lol how very true.

Mikey
12-04-2009, 08:17 AM
MLSE should buy the team and fold it :p

problem solved

No need to fold it, just move it out to the maritimes, seems to be a much bigger market for it there.

CoachGT
12-04-2009, 08:22 AM
MLSE should buy the team and fold it :p

problem solved

If MLSE bought the team, it probably is problem solved. Then they can play out of Skydome, Varsity or where ever they want, without screwing up BMO. It would probably solve the Toronto ownership issue for the CFL too.

Mark in Ottawa
12-04-2009, 08:42 AM
If MLSE bought the team, it probably is problem solved. Then they can play out of Skydome, Varsity or where ever they want, without screwing up BMO. It would probably solve the Toronto ownership issue for the CFL too.
Problem solved for some maybe...
Imagine us poor slobs who have to buy "ransom packs" of tickets.
Bad enough that ML$E has a hockey franchise to use as leverage against us but if they had a CFL team as well... :(

FluSH
12-04-2009, 09:16 AM
The Latest - Published Thurs Dec. 3 - 11:40pm

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/football/it-is-built-but-will-fans-come/article1388091/

In an open letter to Toronto Argonauts fans released yesterday, club president Bob Nicholson writes that the CFL team could play its home games at BMO Field as soon as next season.


Are you kidding me...

I_AM_CANADIAN
12-04-2009, 09:19 AM
OK, so we know that MLSE can't bitch out the city because they operate BMO for them... But why aren't the CSA causing an uproar? Oh yeah, because they're useless.

ManUtd4ever
12-04-2009, 09:20 AM
In an open letter to Toronto Argonauts fans released yesterday, club president Bob Nicholson writes that the CFL team could play its home games at BMO Field as soon as next season.

Nicholson says a move to the 20,000-seat stadium is “far from certain,” but that any season-ticket holder who renews for Rogers Centre would have the option of a refund should the team change home venues.

Afra
12-04-2009, 09:26 AM
I was reading an article in the Star the other day and MLSE looked at buying the Argos last time around when they were in deep financial trouble and they said it didn't make sense for them. It was revisited when someone was at Grey Cup but Anslemi (cannot spell) said they have their hands full with hockey, basketball, and soccer. I doubt they will be stepping up as a defense of BMO field.

The best case scenario is the CFL saying no to the field size and a permanent north stand. In that scenario, there is no way the Argos would have the cash required to make it acceptable for gridiron play.

Wagner
12-04-2009, 09:41 AM
this back forth...are they, aren't they...is going to kill ticket sales and sponsorships.
Their fans don't want BMO.
They keep saying they might go.
Would you renew??

These 2 bonehead owners are going to be the death of the CFL.

ManUtd4ever
12-04-2009, 09:46 AM
The City Council vote is coming up so Nicholson had to issue some kind of formal statement to address the issue of current Argo STH who already paid for tickets at the Rogers Centre next season.

I don't think there is any more of a probability of this happening today then there was yesterday...

CoachGT
12-04-2009, 09:47 AM
I was reading an article in the Star the other day and MLSE looked at buying the Argos last time around when they were in deep financial trouble and they said it didn't make sense for them. It was revisited when someone was at Grey Cup but Anslemi (cannot spell) said they have their hands full with hockey, basketball, and soccer. I doubt they will be stepping up as a defense of BMO field.

The best case scenario is the CFL saying no to the field size and a permanent north stand. In that scenario, there is no way the Argos would have the cash required to make it acceptable for gridiron play.


My thought about MLSE buying them is that they'd cost less than the cost of the new pitch......

ManUtd4ever
12-04-2009, 09:48 AM
My thought about MLSE buying them is that they'd cost less than the cost of the new pitch......

Lol, sad but true...

Fort York Redcoat
12-04-2009, 09:52 AM
The City Council vote is coming up so Nicholson had to issue some kind of formal statement to address the issue of current Argo STH who already paid for tickets at the Rogers Centre next season.

I don't think there is any more of a probability of this happening today then there was yesterday...

They are talking about the end of the MONTH for a decision. Asshats.:mad5:

wzhxvy
12-04-2009, 09:54 AM
I think its actually important to read the article in this case...and the letter itself, including some of the following words:

1. "to see if it is even possible to play our games at BMO Field"
2. "Again, this is all speculative until the feasibility study is complete"
3. "far from certain"

What is becoming clearer however through this is how much of a circus Argo ownership is...buy season tickets and you will be eligible for a refund...

Beach_Red
12-04-2009, 10:17 AM
It all comes down to the CFL's front office saying yay or nay.




Is this something that would have to be voted on by the board of governors? Those western teams must be getting tired of Toronto screwing up their league.

That idea about moving the Argos to Moncton, where the CFL is going to play a regular season game next year - or even to Quebc City where the Vanier Cup was just played would be a great idea.

It's really too bad there are no businesmen in this country who can ever step up.

Whoop
12-04-2009, 10:22 AM
Problem is you still need Toronto to pull in that TV contract, national ad campaigns, etc.

No Toronto, no CFL.

Western teams, and their fans, say that's not true - we don't need Toronto - but that is the sad reality with the league.

That's why it's a bit of a "crisis" at the CFL level.

I mean how much growth potential is there for the Argos, for the CFL in general?

Macksam
12-04-2009, 10:30 AM
OK, so we know that MLSE can't bitch out the city because they operate BMO for them... But why aren't the CSA causing an uproar? Oh yeah, because they're useless.
They have already stated they are adamently opposed to it...

Roogsy
12-04-2009, 10:34 AM
The CSA should come out and say in no uncertain terms that if the CFL moves into the stadium, that they will look at satisfying their contract with the stadium with the women's team only (since they are contractually obliged to a certain numbers of games) and then when their contract runs out, they will no longer look at BMO Field as a viable stadium for national games. And in the meantime, they will refuse to play the men's team there.

That way, the pressure is on the city to make a choice because right now, they are given only two options: The same revenue, or maybe more revenue.

If they are given an option where more revenue may be curtailed by reduced revenue on the soccer side, they may look at this issue closer than simply "hey, how can we make more money" which a city like Toronto in it's difficult financial situation, is only looking at numbers.

Beach_Red
12-04-2009, 10:41 AM
Problem is you still need Toronto to pull in that TV contract, national ad campaigns, etc.

No Toronto, no CFL.

Western teams, and their fans, say that's not true - we don't need Toronto - but that is the sad reality with the league.

That's why it's a bit of a "crisis" at the CFL level.

I mean how much growth potential is there for the Argos, for the CFL in general?


How can we be so certain that's true? Would the TV ratings for Calgary-Edmonton games really be any different if there were no Argos? The CFL just had the most successful playoffs they've ever had in terms of TV ratings and the Argos were never mentioned once. It's possible the Argos are bad for the league.

There may not be much growth potential for the CFL, but it could likey operate at this level for a long time.

The NFL doesn't need a team in LA, the CFL doesn't need a team in Toronto.

Whoop
12-04-2009, 10:41 AM
^^
And that's the bottom line.

EDIT: In regards to Roogsy's point.

ManUtd4ever
12-04-2009, 10:41 AM
Honestly, I would be somewhat concerned if BMO Field still had fieldturf. However, public opinion aside, when you look at the aforementioned logistical hurdles in place such as the field dimensions, reduced seating capacity from an Argo standpoint, the proposed permanent North Stand, Argo ownership's financial woes, and to top it off, the notion of repairing the grass after every match???? I just don't comprehend how this absurd proposal can be viable in any way shape or form. Am I missing something?!

I_AM_CANADIAN
12-04-2009, 10:42 AM
I dunno... I don't have a lot of faith in our city council. A lot of the people who sit on it strike me as being pretty big morons.

Whoop
12-04-2009, 10:45 AM
How can we be so certain that's true? Would the TV ratings for Calgary-Edmonton games really be any different if there were no Argos? The CFL just had the most successful playoffs they've ever had in terms of TV ratings and the Argos were never mentioned once. It's possible the Argos are bad for the league.

There may not be much growth potential for the CFL, but it could likey operate at this level for a long time.

The NFL doesn't need a team in LA, the CFL doesn't need a team in Toronto.

But the NFL has teams in New York, Chicago, Boston, Atlanta, etc. I'm sure at some point LA will get their team back.

If the Argos were to fold, interesting in southern Ontario would diminish even further. I mean would TSN pick up a national contract if there were no Argos at all in the league? Would advertisers spend national dollars without a team in the largest market?

Odds are no.

That's why the CFL wants to get this resolved.

Whoop
12-04-2009, 10:46 AM
Honestly, I would be somewhat concerned if BMO Field still had fieldturf. However, public opinion aside, when you look at the aforementioned logistical hurdles in place such as the field dimensions, reduced seating capacity from an Argo standpoint, the proposed permanent North Stand, Argo ownership's financial woes, and to top it off, the notion of repairing the grass after every match???? I just don't comprehend how this absurd proposal can be viable in any way shape or form. Am I missing something?!

The Argos are still a tradition some people feel that still needs to be propped up.

Beach_Red
12-04-2009, 10:52 AM
The Argos are still a tradition some people feel that still needs to be propped up.


Yes, apparently TSN and the sponsors.

I was just hoping that the western teams in the CFL would rather have no Argos than have them playing on a smaller field. Or at least make that threat realistic.

CretanBull
12-04-2009, 11:00 AM
The CSA should come out and say in no uncertain terms that if the CFL moves into the stadium, that they will look at satisfying their contract with the stadium with the women's team only (since they are contractually obliged to a certain numbers of games) and then when their contract runs out, they will no longer look at BMO Field as a viable stadium for national games. And in the meantime, they will refuse to play the men's team there.

That way, the pressure is on the city to make a choice because right now, they are given only two options: The same revenue, or maybe more revenue.

If they are given an option where more revenue may be curtailed by reduced revenue on the soccer side, they may look at this issue closer than simply "hey, how can we make more money" which a city like Toronto in it's difficult financial situation, is only looking at numbers.


1. That would require the CSA to have balls
2. From the city's point of view, I'm sure 10 (or so?) Argo home games is worth more than 2-3 (max) CMNT games.

Whoop
12-04-2009, 11:09 AM
1. That would require the CSA to have balls
2. From the city's point of view, I'm sure 10 (or so?) Argo home games is worth more than 2-3 (max) CMNT games.

It's also about looking at the future.

Ten Argo home will always be ten Argo home games, nothing more nothing less.

There's a lot more than just 2-3 (max) CMNT games you can do. There's still women's games, U-20 games, a Women's World Cup, other tournaments/events where the facility can be used.

Not to mention, a proper venue for CIS national championship tournament, a high school tournament.

You can get some use out of the stadium... if it's solely football related.

You put the CFL in there... you're restricting it solely to CFL and MLS... mainly due to the stress a CFL game will put on the grass.

Roogsy
12-04-2009, 11:13 AM
1. That would require the CSA to have balls
2. From the city's point of view, I'm sure 10 (or so?) Argo home games is worth more than 2-3 (max) CMNT games.

The CSA's influence here is limited yes...and it's their own fault. But that doesn't mean they should use that limited influence to the degree they can.

So while 2-3 games is little compared to 10 Argo games...by definitiviely coming out and saying those 2-3 games are at risk, you automatically mitigate, even in a small way, the economic benefits of having Argo games at BMO Field.

And to be honest, I think the CSA should also comment (being as MLSE can't) about future international club games at BMO Field indicating that they suspect the stadium will no longer be viable for other soccer events as well, introducing the possibility of losing even more soccer games at BMO.

No more Real Madrids, no Bocas or Aston Villas.

Whoop
12-04-2009, 11:14 AM
The CSA's influence here is limited yes...and it's their own fault. But that doesn't mean they should use that limited influence to the degree they can.

So while 2-3 games is little compared to 10 Argo games...by definitiviely coming out and saying those 2-3 games are at risk, you automatically mitigate, even in a small way, the economic benefits of having Argo games at BMO Field.

And to be honest, I think the CSA should also comment (being as MLSE can't) about future international club games at BMO Field indicating that they suspect the stadium will no longer be viable for other soccer events as well, introducing the possibility of losing even more soccer games at BMO.

That's what it comes down to.

Argo games vs. future international games....

Roogsy
12-04-2009, 11:15 AM
Exactly. There aren't a lot of teams willing to shell out the money to resod the stadium like Madrid did and from what I heard, it was pretty crappy. I am sure nobody else is going to want to do that again.

Afra
12-04-2009, 11:20 AM
My thought about MLSE buying them is that they'd cost less than the cost of the new pitch......

Yeah but a new pitch would be there every game - can't say the same about the Argos this season!

The CFL wants the Argos in Toronto for the sponsorship dollars (the largest market) and potential growth. The western teams have fantastic followings already without much room to grow anymore. They would love to have the Argos popular here like they were even in the 80's.

sarsippius
12-04-2009, 11:24 AM
Anyone out there have a list of people that we can write to? I've already sent an e-mail to Joe Pantalone and the Argos themselves, and will write the city councillor for my riding this afternoon, but I was looking for something more comprehensive that I could also pass along. While I recognize that this may notbe a threat (ref: earlier comment about Council), I am concerned enough all the same, and want to at least make my voice heard.

Cashcleaner
12-04-2009, 11:26 AM
If MLSE bought the team, it probably is problem solved. Then they can play out of Skydome, Varsity or where ever they want, without screwing up BMO. It would probably solve the Toronto ownership issue for the CFL too.

That would actually be the best option for all, in my opinion. It puts MLSE in a position to monopolize almost all major pro sports in Toronto and we could all breath a collective sigh of relief in the knowledge that MLSE wouldn't be stupid enough to even consider placing the club at BMO Field.

Best scenario:

MLSE buys Argos and renovates an existing site for them to play in and perhaps share with a local university.

James17930
12-04-2009, 11:30 AM
That would actually be the best option for all, in my opinion. It puts MLSE in a position to monopolize almost all major pro sports in Toronto and we could all breath a collective sigh of relief in the knowledge that MLSE wouldn't be stupid enough to even consider placing the club at BMO Field.

Best scenario:

MLSE buys Argos and renovates an existing site for them to play in and perhaps share with a local university.

And that would be York.

But MLSE can't see money in it, so they probably won't do it.

CretanBull
12-04-2009, 11:33 AM
It's also about looking at the future.

Ten Argo home will always be ten Argo home games, nothing more nothing less.

There's a lot more than just 2-3 (max) CMNT games you can do. There's still women's games, U-20 games, a Women's World Cup, other tournaments/events where the facility can be used.

Not to mention, a proper venue for CIS national championship tournament, a high school tournament.

You can get some use out of the stadium... if it's solely football related.

You put the CFL in there... you're restricting it solely to CFL and MLS... mainly due to the stress a CFL game will put on the grass.


The CSA's influence here is limited yes...and it's their own fault. But that doesn't mean they should use that limited influence to the degree they can.

So while 2-3 games is little compared to 10 Argo games...by definitiviely coming out and saying those 2-3 games are at risk, you automatically mitigate, even in a small way, the economic benefits of having Argo games at BMO Field.

And to be honest, I think the CSA should also comment (being as MLSE can't) about future international club games at BMO Field indicating that they suspect the stadium will no longer be viable for other soccer events as well, introducing the possibility of losing even more soccer games at BMO.

No more Real Madrids, no Bocas or Aston Villas.


I'm playing devil's advocate here because I want everyone to take the CFL threat seriously....having said that...

The CFL to BMO wouldn't automatically limit the stadium to just MLS and CFL, there would still be times when both teams are on the road, or before/after either or both of the leagues start/finish. It would be limiting, but I think the sure-thing of Argo home games year after year would appeal to the city more than a bunch of maybes.

Also, the volume of things doesn't really matter to the city as much as total attendence does. I'm willing to bet that 2 Argos games would cover the losses of all of the women's national team games, CIS games, highschool and other tournaments combined. 2-3 more Argos games covers the (potential) loss of the CMNT. Objectively, the city would still be ahead by 4-5 sold out events.

Also, the city doesn't care if the stadium is sold out to $150 per seat Real Madrid games or $30 Argos games because they don't generate money from the gate. Their money comes from parking, concession liciences etc. that money comes from the number of bodies in the stadium, the most number of times per year.

We need to keep the Argos out of BMO and to do that we need to take the threat very, very seriously. WE need to involve the CSA, we need to organize ourselves, we need to make our voices heard.

Whoop
12-04-2009, 11:34 AM
If MLSE can't see money in it, then that should be a sign.

Not to be an ass, but say what you will about MLSE, they know how to make money and, save the Marlies, know where to make money.

TFCRegina
12-04-2009, 11:38 AM
It would be an unmitigated disaster for the Argos to move to a smaller field. I'm a strong CFL and real Football supporter.

You move the Argos into a smaller field, you go down a dangerous path. The CFL will no longer be Canadian. It will be an American style game. I've emailed Cohon, and the executive. I'll probably get a reply after this thing has been resolved, which is no good. We need to be putting more pressure on teams outside the Toronto area. Which leads me to believe I should be emailing the Regina city councillers (our team is owned by the community) as well as the board of directors. For those of you in other CFL cities, it may be worthwhile complaining to your own local teams directors.

CretanBull
12-04-2009, 11:39 AM
Again, devil's advocate....

What if the CFL is willing to prop up the Argos in a stadium that loses money but generates excitment for the league as a whole and as a result attracts money (new money, Toronto money) to the league? What if the Argos losing $2 million a year generates $10 million a year for the league?

Cashcleaner
12-04-2009, 11:42 AM
And that would be York.

But MLSE can't see money in it, so they probably won't do it.

What about Ryerson? Where do the Rams play? I don't think they have a football team, but I know they play soccer.

Whoop
12-04-2009, 11:42 AM
Again, devil's advocate....

What if the CFL is willing to prop up the Argos in a stadium that loses money but generates excitment for the league as a whole and as a result attracts money (new money, Toronto money) to the league? What if the Argos losing $2 million a year generates $10 million a year for the league?

That's a big danger. Especially with the revenue sharing program that Argo owners are proposing.

But TFCRegina is right... pressure should be put on teams from out west. I mean it's the CFL. Big fields, big balls is what they're all about.

Whoop
12-04-2009, 11:45 AM
York or U of T would be the best options, but Varsity is no longer option.

So that leaves York. Lots of land up there.

But the Argos closed that door.

Macksam
12-04-2009, 11:48 AM
But the NFL has teams in New York, Chicago, Boston, Atlanta, etc. I'm sure at some point LA will get their team back.

If the Argos were to fold, interesting in southern Ontario would diminish even further. I mean would TSN pick up a national contract if there were no Argos at all in the league? Would advertisers spend national dollars without a team in the largest market?

Odds are no.

That's why the CFL wants to get this resolved.
Your argument has one crucial flaw. That is, where the ratings come from. I doubt a lot of it comes from people in Toronto. If the ratings are still high, which they would be with or without Toronto, a national TV contract by TSN or some other station will still be there.

Also, the CFL is still a gate driven league for the most part. People thinking the CFL will fold without Toronto are just pretentious.

Macksam
12-04-2009, 11:50 AM
What about Ryerson? Where do the Rams play? I don't think they have a football team, but I know they play soccer.
We don't have a football team, and I have no idea where the soccer team plays. All I know is that it's nowhere near the campus since we are located in Yonge and Dundas, the heart of the city. There's no space there to put anything.

CretanBull
12-04-2009, 11:50 AM
My biggest worry about the Argos to BMO story is that outside of BMO there aren't any realistic options for the Argos to leave the Rogers Centre. The Argos can't afford to build their own stadium, and there's no way the city/province will spend tax payer money on another new stadium. It really looks like its the Rogers Centre or BMO for them, and if they've really soured on the RC, a comprimise at BMO might look attractive to the Argos and the CFL....

Whoop
12-04-2009, 11:52 AM
Your argument has one crucial flaw. That is, where the ratings come from. I doubt a lot of it comes from people in Toronto. If the ratings are still high, which they would be with or without Toronto, a national TV contract by TSN or some other station will still be there.

Also, the CFL is still a gate driven league for the most part.

I'm sure a lot of Argos fans watch the CFL game of the week. The team dies... that support diminshes... fewer people watch.

It might not be instantaneous but in 5 to 10 years... pfft... gone.

The CFL is still recovering from their blackout policy from the 80s early 90s.

Whoop
12-04-2009, 11:55 AM
Also, the CFL is still a gate driven league for the most part. People thinking the CFL will fold without Toronto are just pretentious.

It's about the bigger picture.

TSN married with the CFL for the content.

If TSN feels that the CFL is a losing proposition in the future and dump it... where does the CFL go? The Score?

In the meantime, TSN will bid on something else. Maybe they take on TFC games and/or some other venture.

The CFL might not fold.... but will be diminished nationally to the point where only those out west and in pockets of Quebec will follow it.

Besides, CIS is probably bigger in Quebec than the CFL.

Cashcleaner
12-04-2009, 11:56 AM
We don't have a football team, and I have no idea where the soccer team plays. All I know is that it's nowhere near the campus since we are located in Yonge and Dundas, the heart of the city. There's no space there to put anything.

Checked on Wikipedia. It's Lamport. Probably not a workable location for the Argonauts.

Whoop
12-04-2009, 11:58 AM
They can always move the Argos to Aldershot.

TFCRegina
12-04-2009, 12:08 PM
http://www.saskriders.com/page/board_of_directors

Comment box at the bottom has somebody who approves it, which means somebody has to read it, even if they're not approved. Leave your complaints. If any team will be against the Argos move, it's the Riders, which is all about the Canadian game.

Pookie
12-04-2009, 12:11 PM
I think you have to look at this as a big dance.

The issue is that one of the owners, Dumb or Dumber (can't tell which) wants to sell the team.

He has said that if he can't get into BMO, he will sell. He is creating his own out.

The move to BMO is not economically feasible. There are 8,000 fewer tickets to be sold. There are field repairs and investments that they would have to make. There are operating losses that they would have to cover ($250k per year). There are potential lawsuits they will have to cover if the field repairs result in cancelled events and/or player injuries.

The move to BMO is not really practically feasible in that they are asking the league to fundamentally alter the way their game is played.

I'm not worried about this. It will play itself out. They won't move, the owner will have an out. The team will be sold.... and there will be much rejoicing.

Huyton
12-04-2009, 12:20 PM
If a monster truck event can be held in Rio Tinto Stadium, what would be the problem with putting down an artificial surface for the Argos every two weeks?

Yes, I know they want to play on real grass. However, since it's MLSE who is putting in the grass, does Tom Anselmi et al they have any say on who can play on it, and how often?

It would strike me as odd if there wasn't something like that in the deal between the CNE, the City and MLSE.

As for me, I don't want the Argos there, but as a member of the Gold List, if the arrival of the Argos meant a stadium expansion and I could finally get full seasons tickets in the hallowed South Stand, then maybe I'd have to hold my nose.

CretanBull
12-04-2009, 12:23 PM
^Stadium expansion wouldn't create more seats in the South end...

Huyton
12-04-2009, 12:27 PM
I'm hoping that the scalpers will go elsewhere.

A forlorn hope, perhaps, but I'm an optimist.

CretanBull
12-04-2009, 12:28 PM
^VERY optimisitc :D

I think a bigger stadium would put even more of a premium on the seats closest to the pitch....

Huyton
12-04-2009, 12:38 PM
Does anyone know how much scalpers charge for a pair of tickets in the South Stand? Maybe what I should do is offer to take a pair from a scalper for the entire season for $500 a seat (or whatever it works out to). Guarantees him a nice profit, I get to every game, in the same seats, and he doesn't have to stand outside.

sarsippius
12-04-2009, 12:39 PM
Anyone had any thought on what the pending CBA results might have as far as impact on the move goes? If there is no season next year, City Hall may have their hand forced by MLS.

Fort York Redcoat
12-04-2009, 12:44 PM
Does anyone know how much scalpers charge for a pair of tickets in the South Stand? Maybe what I should do is offer to take a pair from a scalper for the entire season for $500 a seat (or whatever it works out to). Guarantees him a nice profit, I get to every game, in the same seats, and he doesn't have to stand outside.

Oh dude. Say you don't mean it. Quickly.:hide:

Fort York Redcoat
12-04-2009, 12:46 PM
Anyone had any thought on what the pending CBA results might have as far as impact on the move goes? If there is no season next year, City Hall may have their hand forced by MLS.

Decision to be made by the end of the month. The CBA can take a lot longer than that.

jloome
12-04-2009, 01:11 PM
I think you have to look at this as a big dance.

The issue is that one of the owners, Dumb or Dumber (can't tell which) wants to sell the team.

He has said that if he can't get into BMO, he will sell. He is creating his own out.

The move to BMO is not economically feasible. There are 8,000 fewer tickets to be sold. There are field repairs and investments that they would have to make. There are operating losses that they would have to cover ($250k per year). There are potential lawsuits they will have to cover if the field repairs result in cancelled events and/or player injuries.

The move to BMO is not really practically feasible in that they are asking the league to fundamentally alter the way their game is played.

I'm not worried about this. It will play itself out. They won't move, the owner will have an out. The team will be sold.... and there will be much rejoicing.

Bingo. Much ado about goofy.

Dirk Diggler
12-04-2009, 01:23 PM
Bingo. Much ado about goofy.

That is my view as well. I found the whole thing quite fishy when the news about the Argos not being on the market AND looking to play at BMO Field came out on the same day. We all know those two clowns are having a heck of a time trying to sell the team in this economy because the team has proven to be nothing but a constant source of money drain. As has been stated before, over the past couple of decades, the team has been propped up exclusively by the constant sale of the franchise, which brought in a new set of owners willing to take financial risks initially for possible future gains, which is something that has evaded all of them. I imagine that every rich man worth his salt has learned the lesson by now and is not willing to touch the franchise with a 10 foot pole.

Beach_Red
12-04-2009, 01:39 PM
Still, they can't help but be inspired bythe success of the Als when they moved from The Big O to Molson Stadium.

What it should tell them is that 25,000 seat at a downtown CFL stadium would sell out.

Not 20,000 seats at a soccer stadium.

Hitcho
12-04-2009, 01:58 PM
Here's a cheery thought, although there's drama in the tale so only read on if your constitution can take it:

CFL decides that they need a TO team and bend to the dumb fuck owners of the Argos. The Argos move into BMO Field and promptly ruin it. TFC suffers big time and fans leave in droves, heartbroken by the ruined playing surface and the disgusting grid lines.

MLSE, aware that it's just had it's newest golden egg shat on by an elephant, takes decisive action. It ponies up some big wonga and buys the Skydome from Rogers, who are looking to sell it to reduce the operating costs and raise working captial for their media operations. MLSE promptly kick out the Jays, flatten the dome and immediately start work on a brand new soccer stadium that makes the pink cows' one look a bit cheap and crappy. They go in with the CSA on a deal that guarantees all CMNT games will be played at this amazing new 30,000 seat venue with incredible location and transport links and it will beocme the home of soccer in Canada.

TFC fans, delirious with the new home that MLSE is building, flood back in droves and the place sells 22,000 season tickets. One entire end of the stadium is given over to SGs to prevent scalper infestation. The atmosphere, housed in by the stylish roof, is electric for the home opener and the waiting list booms back up into 5 figures within months. And Bitchy watches it all from her customised perch, high above, which was built just for her.

The End

Boris
12-04-2009, 02:02 PM
Decision to be made by the end of the month. The CBA can take a lot longer than that.

CBA is up jan 31st...thats another story

Fort York Redcoat
12-04-2009, 02:24 PM
CBA is up jan 31st...thats another story

Kay not a LOT longer but still, this Argo decision will be made before the CBA influences the move.

Jack
12-04-2009, 02:29 PM
Here's a cheery thought, although there's drama in the tale so only read on if your constitution can take it:

CFL decides that they need a TO team and bend to the dumb fuck owners of the Argos. The Argos move into BMO Field and promptly ruin it. TFC suffers big time and fans leave in droves, heartbroken by the ruined playing surface and the disgusting grid lines.

MLSE, aware that it's just had it's newest golden egg shat on by an elephant, takes decisive action. It ponies up some big wonga and buys the Skydome from Rogers, who are looking to sell it to reduce the operating costs and raise working captial for their media operations. MLSE promptly kick out the Jays, flatten the dome and immediately start work on a brand new soccer stadium that makes the pink cows' one look a bit cheap and crappy. They go in with the CSA on a deal that guarantees all CMNT games will be played at this amazing new 30,000 seat venue with incredible location and transport links and it will beocme the home of soccer in Canada.

TFC fans, delirious with the new home that MLSE is building, flood back in droves and the place sells 22,000 season tickets. One entire end of the stadium is given over to SGs to prevent scalper infestation. The atmosphere, housed in by the stylish roof, is electric for the home opener and the waiting list booms back up into 5 figures within months. And Bitchy watches it all from her customised perch, high above, which was built just for her.

The End

Puff puff give, man!

You're fuckin' up the rotation!

Whoop
12-04-2009, 02:30 PM
And the Blue Jays in all of this?

Roogsy
12-04-2009, 02:31 PM
The Jays don't give a shit.

bones
12-04-2009, 02:42 PM
Here's a solution, instead of getting MLSE to buy the team, get Rogers to buy them.

1) they'd never move out of the Roge....Skydome...(just can't do it)
2) TV coverage would shift to include Rogers Sportsnet
3) We'd finally stop talking about this every year at the same time (see Boy who cries wolf)

Bones...

Whoop
12-04-2009, 02:43 PM
The Jays don't give a shit.

LOL

I meant in that vision concocted by Hitcho.

rocker
12-04-2009, 03:32 PM
Also, the city doesn't care if the stadium is sold out to $150 per seat Real Madrid games or $30 Argos games because they don't generate money from the gate. Their money comes from parking, concession liciences etc. that money comes from the number of bodies in the stadium, the most number of times per year.

Reading the original agreement, unless things have changed, the city does indeed get money from the gate -- 7%.
Now, this is allocated to an entity on page 14 entitled "stadium".
Naturally, stadium is technically the city, since it was city that fronted the 10 mil. So for every $150 RM ticket, they get $10.50, for every $30 Argos ticket, they get $2.1.

Blizzard
12-04-2009, 03:48 PM
What about Ryerson? Where do the Rams play? I don't think they have a football team, but I know they play soccer.

Lamport I believe.

Macksam
12-04-2009, 04:10 PM
Here's a cheery thought, although there's drama in the tale so only read on if your constitution can take it:

CFL decides that they need a TO team and bend to the dumb fuck owners of the Argos. The Argos move into BMO Field and promptly ruin it. TFC suffers big time and fans leave in droves, heartbroken by the ruined playing surface and the disgusting grid lines.

MLSE, aware that it's just had it's newest golden egg shat on by an elephant, takes decisive action. It ponies up some big wonga and buys the Skydome from Rogers, who are looking to sell it to reduce the operating costs and raise working captial for their media operations. MLSE promptly kick out the Jays, flatten the dome and immediately start work on a brand new soccer stadium that makes the pink cows' one look a bit cheap and crappy. They go in with the CSA on a deal that guarantees all CMNT games will be played at this amazing new 30,000 seat venue with incredible location and transport links and it will beocme the home of soccer in Canada.

TFC fans, delirious with the new home that MLSE is building, flood back in droves and the place sells 22,000 season tickets. One entire end of the stadium is given over to SGs to prevent scalper infestation. The atmosphere, housed in by the stylish roof, is electric for the home opener and the waiting list booms back up into 5 figures within months. And Bitchy watches it all from her customised perch, high above, which was built just for her.

The End
I have always had the same though, except instead of demolishing the RC, they just tear apart the inside to make it soccer specific.

Huyton
12-04-2009, 04:12 PM
Oh dude. Say you don't mean it. Quickly.:hide:

Okay...I didn't mean it. I'm just desperate to get seasons tickets.

It was a momentary lapse of reason. Forgive me.:picard:I'm so ashamed.

It won't happen again until Preki and Assistant Manager Danny Dichio look on as TFC beats Chelsea to win the World Club Championship.

Hitcho
12-04-2009, 05:06 PM
Puff puff give, man!

You're fuckin' up the rotation!

Eh? I don't understand this. Have you been on the Jack, Jack? :drinking:

Hitcho
12-04-2009, 05:07 PM
And the Blue Jays in all of this?

This is a footie based fairytale. The Jays have to write their own fairytale ending (although I think they already did that when Joe Carter was on the payroll). :D

Jack
12-04-2009, 05:09 PM
Eh? I don't understand this. Have you been on the Jack, Jack? :drinking:

qNUjClJked8

Hitcho
12-04-2009, 05:12 PM
^ haha, yeah ok, it was a tad fanciful I agree... :D

ag futbol
12-04-2009, 05:55 PM
Reading the original agreement, unless things have changed, the city does indeed get money from the gate -- 7%.
Now, this is allocated to an entity on page 14 entitled "stadium".
Naturally, stadium is technically the city, since it was city that fronted the 10 mil. So for every $150 RM ticket, they get $10.50, for every $30 Argos ticket, they get $2.1.
Great point. So when you consider the Argos risk the city losing friendlies and reduced TFC revue (at higher prices) the economics of this whole deal don't make any sense. Soccer is holding it's own here.. which is really the bottom line as to why it deserves a dedicated stadium (with limited use by low impact events like the lacross team).

The more this goes on, the less organized they look, the less i feel like this has any chance of going anywhere. Not before 2011 becomes 2010, there is talk of one of the owners selling, the field dimensions are way out of whack and the CFL has to study the idea before they even go to city hall.

Pookie
12-04-2009, 06:17 PM
^ I agree completely on the risk scenario BUT it is only a risk if those events get booked.

The economic argument is solid but with holes in the calendar the risk scenario is a risk (no pun intended) because a couple of Friendlies could be moved around a CFL schedule.

This is where MLSE and the CSA need to come together and book the stadium now to force the Argos out.