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Ossington Mental Youth
11-27-2009, 12:29 AM
FUCK OFF ARGOS, theres no way we can allow for this to happen
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/football/argos-owners-want-team-to-move/article1379458/

dantdot
11-27-2009, 12:29 AM
Just about to post this. And so it begins...

Super
11-27-2009, 12:37 AM
That's the cost of not owning our own stadium. Anyone can claim the right to use it - and there's not a damn thing we can do about it.

werewolf
11-27-2009, 12:39 AM
That's the cost of not owning our own stadium. Anyone can claim the right to use it - and there's not a damn thing we can do about it.

I can't remember who to give credit to, but I always remember the example of setting up a farmers market, or a road hockey game on the 401 since its public land. :lol:

Super
11-27-2009, 12:44 AM
I can't remember who to give credit to, but I always remember the example of setting up a farmers market, or a road hockey game on the 401 since its public land. :lol:

LOL that's a good one, haha!

Toronto Ruffrider
11-27-2009, 12:55 AM
But when BMO Field was built, the multiuse community-access facility was soccer-specific, not convertible for football use, as it was originally intended. The Argo owners were furious when they learned it had been constructed with stands that do not allow the facility to accommodate a regulation-size CFL field. Retrofitting the 20,000-seat stadium to fit more seats and a bigger field has been estimated to cost about $15-million. Tough shit. The Argos' owners had a chance to be part of a new outdoor stadium, and they bailed. Any ownership group that contributes nothing should never be surprised or angry when they get nothing!

As for the dollar amount in the estimated renovation, does anyone else think that is far too low? Retrofitting BMO to accommodate CFL football is already expensive, but adding seats on top of that would cost quite a bit more.

Shakes McQueen
11-27-2009, 12:55 AM
I just can't see it happening. My guess is this is part of the annual threat the Argo's make to leave the Rogers Centre, to try and get a better deal out of them.

MLSE will oppose any attempt to move in with everything they've got - especially with a $3.3 million dollar soccer pitch being installed. Could you imagine it being torn up by CFL players every other weekend?

This just... won't happen. It can't. The concept of a CFL team playing on a professional soccer pitch is just unthinkable, literally. And MLSE have way too much political muscle for it to happen.

As soon as the turf got torn out, I really think any realistic chance of the Argos landing there faded away.

But if it starts to look possible, we need to be out in FORCE.

- Scott

TorCanSoc
11-27-2009, 01:14 AM
I just threw up a little in my mouth.

edmundo
11-27-2009, 01:25 AM
lol dont the argos kinda remind you of that hot girl that thought she was too good for you in highschool, then fast forward 10 years later and shes put on 50 pounds and is now butt ugly and is now facebooking you every other day to "catch up" and "hangout sometime" lol!

James Oliphant
11-27-2009, 01:30 AM
http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/131wank.gif

Ossington Mental Youth
11-27-2009, 01:35 AM
I just can't see it happening. My guess is this is part of the annual threat the Argo's make to leave the Rogers Centre, to try and get a better deal out of them.

MLSE will oppose any attempt to move in with everything they've got - especially with a $3.3 million dollar soccer pitch being installed. Could you imagine it being torn up by CFL players every other weekend?

This just... won't happen. It can't. The concept of a CFL team playing on a professional soccer pitch is just unthinkable, literally. And MLSE have way too much political muscle for it to happen.

As soon as the turf got torn out, I really think any realistic chance of the Argos landing there faded away.

But if it starts to look possible, we need to be out in FORCE.

- Scott

God willing youre right my friend
and a big

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/131wank.gif to those that want to move into our home

prizby
11-27-2009, 01:36 AM
realistic question


What if the Argos came in with a proposal that would piggy up an 8,000 seat expansion or something like that...would we as fans accept an Argos move (as long as TFC games had priority to the facility including any mid-season scheduled friendlies)?

Ossington Mental Youth
11-27-2009, 01:44 AM
For me no, i dont want them anywhere near, i bought season tickets knowing i was spitting distance from the corner, i do not want to be moved, it will take away from the environment

Canary Canuck
11-27-2009, 01:49 AM
I didn't realize there was a precedent for playing on a shortened CFL field. That's worrying

Red CB Toronto
11-27-2009, 01:53 AM
Well watch out, with Mayor Miller on his way out and the good possibility of John Tory running for top spot, the CFL would have a friend making the choices for the city.

Public owned facilities can be used by anyone willing to rent it.

Auzzy
11-27-2009, 01:57 AM
The bastards are late again, again, again....

MLSE is not only paying $3.5 million to put in top-notch grass; they're spending another $2 million for the right to put in grass (for the replacement facilities). Add the original investment by MLSE in the stadium, plus BMO's dollars (would probably not be interested in sponsoring CFL here, especially if MLSE didn't want it). And what are the Argos offering in return?

What I don't know -- is there any way the Argos can claim a "right" to play in a "publicly-owned" facility? Or at least create some political havoc? They would be promising extra revenues to Exhibition Place etc. What if we have a mayor named John Tory a year from now? (Although, I suppose he may want to do his old cable friends a favour, and not make it easy for the Argos to leave Rogers Centre?) Or some extreme douche-bag mayor & premier (not in the good sense of that word)?

To prizby -- it would totally screw up the high-quality grass surface being put in. Especially if the Argos play after a few days of rain, a couple of times in a row. Plus, how well can you put in & take out football lines, especially on real grass? Would the lines have to stay there for the length of the CFL season? F THAT!

An expansion in return is definitely not worth it. Argos can get governments & sponsors together to build a new stadium on an Ex Place parking lot, at Downsview, or wherever the F the want to. They can offer to host the World Under 20 Canadian Football Championship, maybe that will interest the goverments... ;)

Ossington Mental Youth
11-27-2009, 02:01 AM
I plan on being as vocal as necessary and I hope that we hear from MLSE about this immediately

James17930
11-27-2009, 02:15 AM
BUILD YOUR OWN FUCKING STADIUM YOU MORONS.

30,000 seats. At Downsview.

Share it with the Rugby Canada and the Rugby Canada Super League. Get that going.

Problem solved.

nascarguy
11-27-2009, 03:14 AM
I want football lines on a soccer field I stay home in hamilton and support there soccer team or move to new england..

GhostKiller
11-27-2009, 03:35 AM
Sokolowski and Cynamon probably put that bid on the Phoenix Coyotes just to kiss ass to MLSE so they can come to them on this. What little cunts

Gazza_55
11-27-2009, 06:08 AM
lol dont the argos kinda remind you of that hot girl that thought she was too good for you in highschool, then fast forward 10 years later and shes put on 50 pounds and is now butt ugly and is now facebooking you every other day to "catch up" and "hangout sometime" lol!

Priceless.

King Jeff
11-27-2009, 06:38 AM
BMO's dollars (would probably not be interested in sponsoring CFL here, especially if MLSE didn't want it).


At the risk of complete speculation, BMO would probably love it. They get their name associated with nine or ten more events a year, free. (That may change if they have to renegotiate the naming rights)

Heepster
11-27-2009, 06:57 AM
I don't understand this absurd concept that sometimes gets expressed by Naylor and others that somehow the Argos could just move into BMO Field whenever they want to.

Do the Argos own or operate the stadium? No. It's someone else's property.
How much did the Argos pay for the stadium's construction? Zero.

This would be like me and you discussing the possibility of starting a business, but I decline the opportunity and you go on to start the business with someone else. Three years later, after the business has become more successful than anyone thought it could be, I show up and say "build me an office -- I'm part of this!"
You would tell security to escort me off the property, or at best tell me what large sum of cash is required to buy into your business (if you were even open to the possibility). MLSE owes nothing to the Argos, and as even the article acknowledges, does not need another tenant, let alone one that would be tearing up the grass.

That $15 million figure is probably far too low for what it would cost to convert BMO into a CFL stadium, and the idea that they could simply move in as early as next season is nonsense. The playing surface at BMO is 115 yards long, so the 'shorter end zones' would be about 2 or 3 yards deep. There's also probably not the facilities to handle CFL teams with their much larger rosters and dressing rooms, equipment, offices, etc.

And aren't these the same cheapskate Argo owners who were the only CFL team not carrying a third quarterback because they didn't want to spend the 2000 dollars a game that it would cost? The same Argo owners who had another CFL owner surreptitiously pay half of the two million dollars it cost to buy the team, then continue to cover their losses? The same Argo owners who turned down the chance to have their own stadium for only $20 million with government paying the rest? I don't know how much money these guys have, but their actions would seem to show they don't have enough to build their own stadium or rebuild BMO Field to accommodate the CFL.

Wagner
11-27-2009, 07:01 AM
It's all smoke and mirrors.

The Argos were trying to sell....no one wanted them.
So the owners are not pretending to be happy with them again...
they don't have the 15 million the article quotes as the cost to adjust the stadium.
And the real grass wouldn't survive.

I wouldn't get too worked up over this. It's just a show to get investors back, or for the Roger's centre to give them an even better deal on rent.

Hustle
11-27-2009, 07:01 AM
What is stopping MLSE from coming out and publicly disagreeing with this?

This CANNOT happen.

Wagner
11-27-2009, 07:08 AM
TFC Front Office, here's a freebie.

Having the Argonauts play on BMO would put too much stress on the Turfgrass, thus requiring the use of strong Herbicides and Fertilizers.
And being close to the lake, and the all the extra paper work that the Ministry of the Environment and BMO's IPM agent would have to do, to allow the Argo's play on a 100 yard field with 7 yard endzones.
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/source/regs/english/2009/elaws_src_regs_r09063_e.htm

And the two broke owners are going to cough up $15 to $20 million to convert the stadium. ;)

reggie
11-27-2009, 07:08 AM
they touch our field in any way,im done has a season ticket holder

Mikey
11-27-2009, 07:09 AM
Didn't the Argos take a poll from their SSH last season about moving to BMO? I thought it was reported a resounding "fuck NO" to freezing their asses off outside.

Interesting business model though, move in a venue approx 1/3 the size of the existing one in an attempt to artificially create ticket demand and report a "sell out".

Shakes McQueen
11-27-2009, 07:20 AM
At the end of the day, MLSE currently have a lot of money invested in BMO Field as it stands today with the new playing surface. The city will give them a lot of say on the issue of another team moving in.

The Argos will not play in our house. There are just too many impediments for me to see it happening.

- Scott

denime
11-27-2009, 07:49 AM
Morons just missed the opportunity to use PAN-AM Games to get a nice stadium build partially with public money.
They can use a future PAN-AM stadium in Burlington 10-12 K is more than enough for Argos.

ensco
11-27-2009, 08:04 AM
This statement caught my eye:

The Argo owners were furious when they learned it had been constructed with stands that do not allow the facility to accommodate a regulation-size CFL field.

Naylor's been had. This is laughable. He should maybe make a couple of phone calls next time he writes something about this.

When the new stadium was being looked at, the Argos were in partnership with MLSE and the CSA. But the Argos broke off to do a separate deal with York (which never happened). So they left the table, they did it unilaterally, they deceived their partners about it at the time, and MLSE were furious, and it was personal. A key individual at MLSE, who had been close to one of the Argo principals for decades, has not spoken to him since. That's why BMO is soccer-only.

It's a City decision, whether to try to accomodate the Argos, but MLSE are their partner on this, MLSE are the manager at BMO, MLSE are pouring millions into BMO, and MLSE will get the priority dates. I am sure that MLSE received significant usage conditions as part of putting in grass, they wouldn't want to see it torn up by another tenant.

So MLSE may have real influence on whether this happens. And as far as MLSE are concerned, hell will freeze over before the Argos come into BMO

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 08:09 AM
Anybody know if York ever built themselves that new stadium they were intending to share withthe Argos before Rogers basically let them squat in Skydome rent free?

Try building there.

Razor
11-27-2009, 08:11 AM
The Argos can go fuck off and build their own stadium.

THIS CANNOT HAPPEN

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 08:13 AM
realistic question


What if the Argos came in with a proposal that would piggy up an 8,000 seat expansion or something like that...would we as fans accept an Argos move (as long as TFC games had priority to the facility including any mid-season scheduled friendlies)?

I don't give a shit if St Cinamon wants to replace every stand with Lazy-Boys recliners and give us a roof and golden goalposts.

He can piss right off.

Heepster
11-27-2009, 08:17 AM
And BTW, the attendance announced at Argo games is ridiculously fictional. During Argo games for the last year or two the Rogers Centre upper (500) level is closed and completely empty. For there to be the crowds of 25 to 30 thousand they claim, the seats in the 100 and 200 levels of the stadium would need to be almost entirely filled, and a generous estimate would be they were about one third occupied for most games. I suppose there could be several thousand tickets given away, or sold and not used, but I think there could have been under 10,000 actually present at many of the games. Maybe they could look into extending the field at Lamport Stadium into the parking lot?

Blazer
11-27-2009, 08:23 AM
Considering that the two seasons overlap, allowing the Argos to play at BMO (and presumably) leave behind their faded chalk markings, MLS and CFL have to recognize that it only makes their respective leagues look bush. The footy fans in this city waited patiently for the pristine soccer pitch of our dreams and certainly don’t want it marred by 50, 40, 30, 20, etc. outlines.

Conversely, the CFL doesn’t need another stadium with lines all over the place if they want greater credibility to their product.

It’s a win-win for BMO, but a lose-lose for fans alike.

Lucky Strike
11-27-2009, 08:27 AM
It's a City decision, whether to try to accomodate the Argos, but MLSE are their partner on this, MLSE are the manager at BMO, MLSE are pouring millions into BMO, and MLSE will get the priority dates. I am sure that MLSE received significant usage conditions as part of putting in grass, they wouldn't want to see it torn up by another tenant.

So MLSE may have real influence on whether this happens. And as far as MLSE are concerned, hell will freeze over before the Argos come into BMO

That's my view as well and why I'm not overly concerned at this juncture. The city owns the stadium which is why the Argos think they're allowed to have these dreams of moving in and while there was turf, the possibility was open, not a done deal by any chance but open.

With the installation of a grass pitch with all the trimmings and technology (draining, under-soil heating, etc...), that possibility is out the window. MLSE has just invested too much money (at BMO and elsewhere) to not be given a say on what happens. That, and as many others have pointed out, pointyball players would ruin the grass and that's why MLSE is going to say no - to protect their investment.

sully
11-27-2009, 08:31 AM
Those two owners of the Argos are obviously Gobshites...it's a pity as the Argos fans clearly deserve better...the only solution is for the Argos to have their own stadium.

Parkdale
11-27-2009, 08:31 AM
like it's been stated already.... it's the annual 'argos - rogers contract bluffing'.

The last time the Argos talked about moving into BMO field it all came down to one fact It was just a negotiating ploy for the Argos to get more % of concession sales. They must know that moving to BMO is a bad call for their team too, asfter all, the vast majority of their ticket holders told them so.

redcard
11-27-2009, 08:45 AM
realistic question


What if the Argos came in with a proposal that would piggy up an 8,000 seat expansion or something like that...would we as fans accept an Argos move (as long as TFC games had priority to the facility including any mid-season scheduled friendlies)?

i dont think expanding the stadium is worth the price of a torn up of grass pitch...i am sure thats how everyone would see it.

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 08:45 AM
Those two owners of the Argos are obviously Gobshites...it's a pity as the Argos fans clearly deserve better...the only solution is for the Argos to have their own stadium.

There's where I disagree. They're exploring what's best for their team and have done more for the team than many owners in the past. They made some bad decisions in staying at the dome and clearly have some people in charge of the team that aren't taking them in the right direction but as owners go they are good for the CFL. The Skydome is not.

And yes the Argos deserve better in the standings and the stands.

Wagner
11-27-2009, 08:52 AM
The Argos play chicken with new stadium developers and lose every time...
they could have had that York/CSA stadium...they could have got into bed with the Pan-Am people...They are fully aware of these things, and then plead that they were not aware or not involved.

The Argos don't generate enough revenue to justify their own stadium, the owners are cashstrapped so they can't pay for one, no one wanted to buy the team...they are just grasping at straws and throwing ideas and statements out there.

TFC&SpursGuy
11-27-2009, 08:53 AM
This shouldn't happen, but just in case, we may need to lobby city councillors just like what was done for grass.

The argument to city officials is easy - adding grass provided the prospect of increasing the value of your asset. Allowing the CFL to tear up the grass, especially when international friendlies and playoff games deep into November are on the line, will ruin that prospect.

I still remember Enlgand losing to Croatia on a Wembley pitch ruined by an NFL game in 2007. Disaster.

zorsofstesab
11-27-2009, 08:54 AM
Not sure what others will do but my 1st call this morning is to my account Rep so he fully understands that as much as I love my TFC, travel to away games and have missed only 3 home games since inception (believe me I tried in vein to not miss the games) I will NOT renew my season tickets if the Argos come on board. We waited far too long for grass. We were the laughing stock with the plastic surface and now I want exclusive rights to watch my beloved TFC as the soul tenant.

This is not a threat but a reality. I cannot fathom how much damage the Argos will cause to the grass. Even the thought of seeing faded football lines will drive me crazy!!

koryo
11-27-2009, 08:55 AM
It's quite sad really that the Argos have been reduced to these sorts of tactics.

I could care less if the Boatmen sink. Another nail in the coffin of yesterday's game.

ensco
11-27-2009, 08:56 AM
There's where I disagree. They're exploring what's best for their team and have done more for the team than many owners in the past. They made some bad decisions in staying at the dome and clearly have some people in charge of the team that aren't taking them in the right direction but as owners go they are good for the CFL. The Skydome is not.

And yes the Argos deserve better in the standings and the stands.

They have not been good owners. They have been ultra cheapskate owners.

David Cynamon and Howard Sokolowski, between them, have more money than God. Cynamon made hundreds of millions in a private-label bleach company, Sokolowski owns one of the biggest homebuilders in the 905 donut.

They bought the Argos for $2 million (or less, it may have all been borrowed from Braley if I recall correctly) and have been scrounging around the stadium issue ever since like winos sniffing beer caps. All they had to do was toss some pocket change into the MLSE/CSA deal, and they'd be at BMO, but they thought they could get a stadium for free at York. That's why they're where they are.

The Argo owners are entitled to pursue their self interest, absolutely. But Joe Argo fan knows that it's not like they actually care about the Argos. The Argo owners are caretaker owners looking for a flip on the back of a publicly-funded stadium deal.

I am often critical of MLSE but, when it comes to facilities, they have spent a lot of money in this City, and are far more entitled to taxpayer breaks (like the subsidized cost of BMO) than the Argo owners are.

Parkdale
11-27-2009, 08:57 AM
I could care less if the Boatmen sink.

I see what you did there. Nice one!

Parkdale
11-27-2009, 08:58 AM
also, let's not forget that the argos have a long history of flirting with local venues, and then pulling back. They even were in talks with the city to redevelop Lamport stadium about 8 years ago, and the place just sat and rotted until after TFC came around.

JonO
11-27-2009, 09:02 AM
BUILD YOUR OWN FUCKING STADIUM YOU MORONS.

30,000 seats. At Downsview.

Share it with the Rugby Canada and the Rugby Canada Super League. Get that going.

Problem solved.
Amen to this - I'd go watch rugby there...

Wagner
11-27-2009, 09:03 AM
also, let's not forget that the argos have a long history of flirting with local venues, and then pulling back. They even were in talks with the city to redevelop Lamport stadium about 8 years ago, and the place just sat and rotted until after TFC came around.

Lamport would actually be good for them.
perhaps have real tailgating in the parking lot.
on the TTC line.
Right in the heart of old/real toronto (even though it's becoming revitalized)

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 09:03 AM
They have not been good owners. They have been ultra cheapskate owners.

David Cynamon and Howard Sokolowski, between them, have more money than God. Cynamon made hundreds of millions in a private-label bleach company, Sokolowski owns one of the biggest homebuilders in the 905 donut.

They bought the Argos for $2 million (or whatever it was) and have been scrounging around the stadium issue ever since. All they had to do was toss some pocket change into the MLSE/CSA deal, and they'd be at BMO, but they thought they could get a stadium for free at York. That's why they're where they are.

It's pathetic.

I'll agree the "boys who cried wolf" saying they might leave again is terrible but the fact they aren't outspending every other owner is supposed to be indicative of their long term commitment to the team. I just wish they would see they must shrink to improve. Atmosphere is so important to their game and appearance for their league.

111_DrummerBoy
11-27-2009, 09:05 AM
I'm sick of this bullshit. Especially when Cinnamon and Suckowski are saying they're going to move to BMO as if it was a done deal. Just throwing this out there, and really this isn't something I would generally suggest but I think we need to send a message to these twats. We should organize ALL the supporters groups and protest in front the Skydome. Do it up right, get flags, banners, dress in TFC gear and let the city know that BMO is our house! Plus it would be a good offseason event.

Thoughts?

koryo
11-27-2009, 09:07 AM
I'm sick of this bullshit. Especially when Cinnamon and Suckowski are saying they're going to move to BMO as if it was a done deal. Just throwing this out there, and really this isn't something I would generally suggest but I think we need to send a message to these twats. We should organize ALL the supporters groups and protest in front the Skydome. Do it up right, get flags, banners, dress in TFC gear and let the city know that BMO is our house! Plus it would be a good offseason event.

Thoughts?

Rioting against Argo fans? We're red, they're blue... so there's precedent at least.

Can we bring brass knuckles instead of signs? :)

JK of course. I don't condone senseless violence. Now violence with a purpose on the other hand...

In all seriousness, that would only serve to legitimize the posturing of those two idiots.

Wagner
11-27-2009, 09:14 AM
I'm sick of this bullshit. Especially when Cinnamon and Suckowski are saying they're going to move to BMO as if it was a done deal. Just throwing this out there, and really this isn't something I would generally suggest but I think we need to send a message to these twats. We should organize ALL the supporters groups and protest in front the Skydome. Do it up right, get flags, banners, dress in TFC gear and let the city know that BMO is our house! Plus it would be a good offseason event.

Thoughts?

you'd be better off calling/emailing your City Councillor and your Ticket Rep.

What is 30 guys in TFC gear infront of a vacant rogers centre going to accomplish?

I'd wait until something more than idle statements are floated.

Wait until you hear that a consulting firm is in BMO with Surveying equipment on behalf of the Argos.

Parkdale
11-27-2009, 09:20 AM
protesting the argos game would make it look like US Vs. THEM (their fans).

we aren't against their fans, in fat - we are on the same side
Neither group wants to see the Argos at BMO field. It's just the owners
who bring it up as a bluff tactic in their negotiations with Rogers center.

let me repeat: We need to show that we support the argos fans - and want them to have their own stadium

111_DrummerBoy
11-27-2009, 09:25 AM
I agree we're not against their fans or even the Argos. It's never been about that. But until these guys get the message this stupid conversation is going to keep coming up.

Hitcho
11-27-2009, 09:26 AM
Paul B - anything to say on the Argos claiming they are going to move in next season? How does MLSE feel about that given the recent grass developments?

Prizby - NO!!!! NO NO NO NO NO. I would not accept any kind of expansion in return for sharing BMO Field with the Argos. They will want lines on the pitch. They will want parts of the stadium to turn blue on a permanent basis. They will ruin the grass playing surface. They will conflict with TFC for part of the MLS season and lord knows we have enough problems scheduling our home games as it is, we don't need that added on top. These are all practical issues, not political or personal sport based choices, and they are all MAJOR practical factors. So from a fan's point of view, no I would NOT go for that. And anyway, if the waiting list for TFC is as long as MLSE keep claiming it is then we can afford to expand on our steam and the revenue from all the new seats that will be istantly filled will pay for it sooner or later.

From MLSE's point of view, I don't see that they will make any money out of this (Argos will pay the City, not MLSE) although they may be able to negotiate a reduction in rent if they are sharing the stadium. However, MLSE do stand to lose out in other ways. Their pristeen new grass will get covered in ugly pointy ball lines and the surface will take a battering. The TFC fans will be livid. They will encounter a fixture headache for the overlap in seasons. SO what motivation is there for MLSE to even consider this?

From the city's point of view, well that's what worries me. They are the only ones who stand to gain from this. However, I am hoping that MLSE put in some kind of "we get sole and exclusive control over who uses the new grass while we remain tenants" clause as part of the deal to create replacement community facilities. It would be madness not to so I would think that they did. In which case, the city gets no say in this while TFC are tenants and given that MLSE and the TFC fans will be against the idea, that really should be enough to can this stupid crap.

From the Argos fans point of view, it doesn't sound like they want this to happen either. Can the Argo owners really endure a further drop in fan attendance? Doesn;t sound like it.

So, this should be nothing more than pointy ball shaped farts in the wind. But Paul B, I think we'd all be interested to hear what you have to say on this! :D

Blazer
11-27-2009, 09:42 AM
It's quite sad really that the Argos have been reduced to these sorts of tactics.

I could care less if the Boatmen sink. Another nail in the coffin of yesterday's game.

Respectfully Koryo, I can't understand how you can call football (Canadian at that) “yesterday’s game”? A league drenched in 100+ years of history with a growing popularity (and subsequent fanbase) is nothing to scoff at in my opinion. Not wanting the Argos at BMO is one thing, but to denigrate an entire sport/league (especially one of such important cultural significance to Canada’s heritage) just isn’t right. I’m not an American football fan either, but I would never disrespect a game that has greater roots in North America than soccer.

Always There
11-27-2009, 09:42 AM
I can understand people not wanting the Argos in BMO. I'm sure just about the only people who do are Sokolowski and Cynamon. Just because they want it to happen doesn't mean there is a snowballs chance in hell of it happening.

I'm sure the CFL wouldn't want it's most historic franchise to play on a CFL field that is nowhere close to regulation. It might have been fine for the Memphis Mad Dogs (who?), but not the Argos.

MLSE has stated many times they don't want the Argos. I'm not sure they need to keep addressing complete speculation.

I like the CFL, and the Argos. I can't really understand the hate for them. As much as people might not want to admit it, they draw more fans than TFC at the gate and on T.V. They are an important part of our culture. There's no reason to insult their fans, lie about their attendance or simply dismiss them as irrelevant.

This is all complete fantasy and their's no reason to get excited about this at all.

egoodwin
11-27-2009, 09:42 AM
If the argos are moving in, I will not renew season tickets for 2011

I will not pay $450 to watch a shit team play on a new grass pitch with lines that is torn up.

The lacrosse lines are bad enough, I will not pay to watch our pitch fucked up even more


This is our house. Fuck off Argos

Always There
11-27-2009, 09:50 AM
Respectfully Koryo, I can't understand how you can call football (Canadian at that) “yesterday’s game”? A league drenched in 100+ years of history with a growing popularity (and subsequent fanbase) is nothing to scoff at in my opinion. Not wanting the Argos at BMO is one thing, but to denigrate an entire sport/league (especially one of such important cultural significance to Canada’s heritage) just isn’t right. I’m not an American football fan either, but I would never disrespect a game that has greater roots in North America than soccer.


I agree completely, but would just like to point out that you are talking about the CFL and then refer to it as "American Football". You were talking about "Canadian Football", go ahead and call it that.

There are many differences between the two games, which I'm sure you are aware.

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 09:52 AM
Canadian Football. Growing popularity?

Always There
11-27-2009, 09:52 AM
Canadian Football. Growing popularity?

What?

menefreghista
11-27-2009, 09:54 AM
I can't help but think that if the Argo owner's ever put their money where their collective mouths are, there would be no stopping this from happening.

But if their cheap track record of running the Argo's is any indication, there is no need to get worked up over this.

Blazer
11-27-2009, 10:04 AM
I agree completely, but would just like to point out that you are talking about the CFL and then refer to it as "American Football". You were talking about "Canadian Football", go ahead and call it that.

There are many differences between the two games, which I'm sure you are aware.

The reason I called it “American football” is because Koryo and many others (including myself) call soccer “football” so it was ostensibly done to make it clear which football I was referring to. I wasn’t referencing CFL to NFL, which are in comparison to soccer, alike games after all.

Wagner
11-27-2009, 10:10 AM
I think Pointyball is an accepted term for the game that the NFL and CFL play.

tfcleeds
11-27-2009, 10:10 AM
I didn't bother reading the article, but does it say anything about the proposed sale of the Argos to Braley? If St. Cinnamon and Suckowski aren't going to be involved with the team anymore, maybe we are getting riled up over nothing?

menefreghista
11-27-2009, 10:12 AM
I didn't bother reading the article, but does it say anything about the proposed sale of the Argos to Braley? If St. Cinnamon and Suckowski aren't going to be involved with the team anymore, maybe we are getting riled up over nothing?

According to the article, they are staying on as owners.

Blazer
11-27-2009, 10:17 AM
Canadian Football. Growing popularity?

It sure is!

It wouldn’t seem so in this city with the perennial losing that goes on (Argos), but Cohon has really helped to turn this league around and says so himself regularly during interviews. Of course he has to say the right things, but he can adequately support his (and other’s) claims on the growth of the league. So much so in fact, that the possibility of expansion has never been better he feels (Fan590 interview two weeks ago). I don’t intend on sabotaging this thread, but don’t be fooled because of this particular city’s seemingly apathetic or mild appetite for the game. Its growing steadily and we’ll see it more so when the boatmen right their ship.

billyfly
11-27-2009, 10:18 AM
Put the Argos in Hamilton in the new PAN-AM games stadium being built.

Parkdale
11-27-2009, 10:20 AM
I will not pay $450 to watch a shit team play on a new grass pitch with lines that is torn up.


who are you calling a "shit team" ???


you can say they had 'poor performance' 'shit coaching' 'terrible leadership' etc etc etc
but the idea of a supporter referring to the club he supports as a "shit team" just baffles my mind.
I would never call TFC shit. There have been shitty things, but they are not a shit team -- they are OUR team!

Huginho
11-27-2009, 10:21 AM
BMO Field = Grass
Argos playing at BMO on a rainy day would fuck up the field royally which is why this won't happen. Those Ratard Argo owners aren't going to pay to fix the grass after every CFL game and neither will MLSE nor should they have to. Fuck them

ManUtd4ever
11-27-2009, 10:32 AM
Get a grip people...the article does not indicate that the Argos relocating to BMO Field is imminent. It is nothing more than a pipe dream for the current desperate Argos ownership that has to overcome financial and public relations hurdles to make this happen. I think once this idea is formally squashed the sale of the Argos will go through as anticipated and it will be back to square one for the new prospective owners. IMO, they should worry about the product on the field first and foremost as no one wants to watch a 3-15 club play out of any facility...

ensco
11-27-2009, 10:39 AM
It sure is!

It wouldn’t seem so in this city with the perennial losing that goes on (Argos), but Cohon has really helped to turn this league around and says so himself regularly during interviews. Of course he has to say the right things, but he can adequately support his (and other’s) claims on the growth of the league. So much so in fact, that the possibility of expansion has never been better he feels (Fan590 interview two weeks ago). I don’t intend on sabotaging this thread, but don’t be fooled because of this particular city’s seemingly apathetic or mild appetite for the game. Its growing steadily and we’ll see it more so when the boatmen right their ship.

I've heard Cohon being interviewed by McCown on this. His statements on the "impressive growth of the CFL" struck me as being in the nature of a warm, personal gesture to himself. McCown was too busy kissing his ass to ask hard questions.

There is no denying that Canadian football has had impressive growth in Quebec, but this goes back 10+ years and predates Cohon. Elsewhere, the story remains the same - the CFL is strong in some western markets, but has an equal number of problem markets.

The CFL survives because of the relationship with TSN, and because of TSN's need for summer programming. The CFL produces better summer ratings than alternatives do (ie Jays baseball, whose ratings have declined significantly over the last 10 years, to the CFL's benefit), but "better" doesn't equal "good". Of course the Grey Cup remains a significant TV property, but it's ratings are slowly declining. Moving it from CTV/CBC to TSN is a sign that even this major event is becoming less of a must-have property.

MLS expansion into Canada is an ICBM aimed at the heart of the CFL. If soccer ever gets traction in the mass market in this country, the CFL's deal with TSN will die, with dire consequences for the league.

menefreghista
11-27-2009, 10:52 AM
Moving it from CTV/CBC to TSN is a sign that even this major event is becoming less of a must-have property.

That's a bit disingenuous. All sports in general are moving away from public TV and are going to cable networks. That's just the nature of the game and not indicative of a fall in the Grey Cup's importance or relevance.

Anybody remember Leafs games on Global? Or Jays games on CFTO? The landscape has completely changed.

James Oliphant
11-27-2009, 10:59 AM
Of course the Grey Cup remains a significant TV property, but it's ratings are slowly declining. Moving it from CTV/CBC to TSN is a sign that even this major event is becoming less of a must-have property.

:facepalm:

ensco
11-27-2009, 11:00 AM
That's a bit disingenuous. All sports in general are moving away from public TV and are going to cable networks. That's just the nature of the game and not indicative of a fall in the Grey Cup's importance or relevance.

Anybody remember Leafs games on Global? Or Jays games on CFTO? The landscape has completely changed.

Of course it's a comment on a decline in the Grey Cup's importance or relevance. Are the Stanley Cup finals or the Super Bowl available only on cable? See that happening any time soon?

MartinUtd
11-27-2009, 11:01 AM
They should build another stadium for the argos then convert it to soccer for Canada's 2026 World Cup Bid.

ensco
11-27-2009, 11:01 AM
:facepalm:

any one know if there is an even more snide version of :facepalm: available, that I can use?

reggie
11-27-2009, 11:06 AM
maybe there sugar daddy braley can build them a stadium,like maybe at york u???
argonot in our stadium...fuckers

menefreghista
11-27-2009, 11:07 AM
Of course it's a comment on a decline in the Grey Cup's importance or relevance. Are the Stanley Cup finals or the Super Bowl available only on cable? See that happening any time soon?

Its funny you bring up the Stanley Cup. If TSN were allowed to openly bid for the Stanley Cup, or even the HNIC timeslot, they would most likely beat the CBC. The NHL protects the CBC for nostalgia reasons.

TSN gets to carry NHL playoff games involving Canadian teams. I guess those games are irrelevant too now.

billyfly
11-27-2009, 11:14 AM
maybe there sugar daddy braley can build them a stadium,like maybe at york u???
argonot in our stadium...fuckers

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have found our slogan.


"Argonot in our stadium"

King Dave - make a flag!

ensco
11-27-2009, 11:15 AM
Its funny you bring up the Stanley Cup. If TSN were allowed to openly bid for the Stanley Cup, or even the HNIC timeslot, they would most likely beat the CBC. The NHL protects the CBC for nostalgia reasons.

TSN gets to carry NHL playoff games involving Canadian teams. I guess those games are irrelevant too now.

I'm asking a serious question here - is this sarcasm, or do you believe this?

btw TSN gets mostly non-Canadian teams in the playoffs.

rocker
11-27-2009, 11:17 AM
i never understood the business case for the Argos being in BMO. They wouldn't own BMO. They wouldn't even be a partner. MLSE and the City are partners in the operation of the stadium. MLSE has a very careful revenue sharing deal with the City on this stadium (that's a contract). Argos can't be partners to that contract unless MLSE allowed it. There'd be no point to allow that, though.

So the Argos could only be a tenant. As a tenant, they wouldn't get favourable deals on concessions and stuff like that. The stadium already covers it's original deal by far, so it's not like MLSE or the City are scrambling for extra revenue to break even. They don't *need* the Argos at all. It's only 9 more games for the stadium. If you grow soccer, you can easily come up with 9 more 20000-attendance games. CFL has no growth potential.

the Argos wouldn't be gaining anything financially from this, and the field would be too small. So it would be no advantage to them.

But if anyone from the Argos comes close to BMO, I'm willing to go down for the protest!!

Beach_Red
11-27-2009, 11:22 AM
Of course it's a comment on a decline in the Grey Cup's importance or relevance. Are the Stanley Cup finals or the Super Bowl available only on cable? See that happening any time soon?


Yes, I see the Stanley Cup finals happening only on cable - basic cable (which probably covers 95% of this country). There are some very big changes coming to TV in Canada and the difference between network and cable may very wll disappear.

The question is, will all sports be on 'specialty' channels and the answer may very well be yes.

There's also a good argument for TSN saving the CFL, or at least keeping it in the mainstream of sports, something the CBC never could have done.

menefreghista
11-27-2009, 11:23 AM
I'm asking a serious question here - is this sarcasm, or do you believe this?

btw TSN gets mostly non-Canadian teams in the playoffs.

LOL. I'm aware that TSN gets mostly American teams in the NHL playoffs, but last season they had Canadian teams in the playoffs for the first time. That was a watershed moment for Canadian sports broadcasting. And its further proof of the shift from broadcast channels to cable. Seems like you are the one that doesn't know what you are talking about.

TSN has tons of money from subscribers, whereas the CBC has to watch what it spends because its a public broadcaster.

CBC has already lost curling and the Olympics to TSN. If they were allowed to openly bid for CBC's hockey content it would be no contest. They have already eroded some of the Canadian NHL playoff matches from CBC. It wouldn't surprise me if they were able to take more next time the contract is up.

Phil
11-27-2009, 11:29 AM
There is real cause for concern with this IMO.

I am sure the argos will be running around making all kinds of claims, lets face it their organzation is struggling on and off the field and a change would give them a second chance.

I dont want to see it coming at soccers expense though. Them playing in BMO with the natural surface now will damage TFC soccer and the Canadian mens and womans team. There is no way that the pitch could recover from CFL games and be able to host quality soccer. Look at the World Cup qualifier in Montreal, that was an impact game the night before and the pitch was rough.

That NFL game killed Wembly and arguably cost England their shot at Euro.

We are going to need to act on this. No CFL at BMO field.

billyfly
11-27-2009, 11:30 AM
^"Argonot in our stadium"

I agree Phil. I am concerned as well.

Parkdale
11-27-2009, 11:33 AM
from waaayyyyyy back...


QAdBpYobZlU

ensco
11-27-2009, 11:35 AM
TSN has tons of money from subscribers, whereas the CBC has to watch what it spends because its a public broadcaster.

CBC has already lost curling and the Olympics to TSN. If they were allowed to openly bid for CBC's hockey content it would be no contest. They have already eroded some of the Canadian NHL playoff matches from CBC. It wouldn't surprise me if they were able to take more next time the contract is up.

Then we'll agree to disagree.

The issue of whether the CBC should be allowed to compete with private broadcasters is a valid one. But if CTV/TSN had won those rights, HNIC and the Stanley Cup Finals would be on CTV. Those ratings are massive. That programming is not going off free-to-air any time soon.


EDIT: I wrote this before I saw how you changed your post. So I'll just say you're handling yourself like a jerk. We're done.

For everyone else: top rated shows are always on free-to-air networks and almost never on specialty/cable networks (there may be exceptions to this, the Grey Cup will be one this week, but they're really rare). Here's an example....
http://blog.egmedia.ca/?q=node/77

Always There
11-27-2009, 11:35 AM
I think Pointyball is an accepted term for the game that the NFL and CFL play.

Really, to who? Arrogant soccer supporters?

billyfly
11-27-2009, 11:37 AM
^I think its funny and I am an Argo supporter.

Redboy11
11-27-2009, 11:40 AM
LOL. I'm aware that TSN gets mostly American teams in the NHL playoffs, but last season they had Canadian teams in the playoffs for the first time. That was a watershed moment for Canadian sports broadcasting. And its further proof of the shift from broadcast channels to cable. Seems like you are the one that doesn't know what you are talking about.

TSN has tons of money from subscribers, whereas the CBC has to watch what it spends because its a public broadcaster.

CBC has already lost curling and the Olympics to TSN. If they were allowed to openly bid for CBC's hockey content it would be no contest. They have already eroded some of the Canadian NHL playoff matches from CBC. It wouldn't surprise me if they were able to take more next time the contract is up.Absolutely QFT.

Always There
11-27-2009, 11:45 AM
The reason I called it “American football” is because Koryo and many others (including myself) call soccer “football” so it was ostensibly done to make it clear which football I was referring to. I wasn’t referencing CFL to NFL, which are in comparison to soccer, alike games after all.

It just seems strange to refer to American Football, when you are talking about the Canadian Football League, even casually.

You seem opposed to saying soccer, so the choice was made, and you chose to refer to America rather than Canada. :canada:Boooo!

Always There
11-27-2009, 11:47 AM
^I think its funny and I am an Argo supporter.


Really? Why? I mean the funny part, not the Argo supporting part.

Phil
11-27-2009, 11:48 AM
I find it odd that the CFL game is marketed and takes pride in having a differnet sized field and now they are openly talking about going away from that, dare I say to a NFL style field.

Seems like a slap in the face to CFL supporters.

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 11:48 AM
^^Try gridiron for the sensitive term. Pointyball seems demeaning to some.

billyfly
11-27-2009, 11:50 AM
Really? Why? I mean the funny part, not the Argo supporting part.

B/c the ball is pointy.

Always There
11-27-2009, 11:52 AM
^^Try gridiron for the sensitive term. Pointyball seems demeaning to some.

The gridiron is the field itself.

I'm just saying about "pointyball" is that it's an odd term. It seems to purposefully show a lack of respect for football by refusing to call the game by it's actual name, especially in the context of this debate.

tfcleeds
11-27-2009, 11:52 AM
Pointy ball, footy...I like both. Some people are WAY too sensitive about things.

Always There
11-27-2009, 11:53 AM
B/c the ball is pointy.
Why is that funny?

billyfly
11-27-2009, 11:55 AM
This is beginning to remind me of "Good Fellas".

Always There
11-27-2009, 11:57 AM
This is beginning to remind me of "Good Fellas".

I'm being serious. I don't understand how some of these terms find legs.

billyfly
11-27-2009, 11:59 AM
Well I ain't being "serious" about a term I find "amusing." Is this term that offensive to you?

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 12:00 PM
please settle down. Gridiron is used by fans of the game.

Pointyball is what is the norm here because more people here call soccer football. Welcome BTW

tfcleeds
11-27-2009, 12:00 PM
I'm being serious. I don't understand how some of these terms find legs.

Anyone who's been on these boards for an extended period of time is familiar with the "pointyball" reference for gridiron/American/Canadian football. And a lot of people on here are fans of both sports, myself included. I don't think too many people are offended by the term.

Broadview
11-27-2009, 12:06 PM
For all the schtick soccer's taken in this country the past few decades, it's kinda funny to see someone get their knickers in a knot over the term "pointy ball".

He does have a point though. The correct term is "throwball".

Always There
11-27-2009, 12:07 PM
Well I ain't being "serious" about a term I find "amusing." Is this term that offensive to you?

Huh? Who's offended?

I say serious in the fact that I actually don't understand the humor in "pointyball". I find it's most often said in a derogatory manner by those who don't like it. Not that I think this is a life or death subject.

No big deal....but c'mon. Pointyball is funny because the ball is pointy? Right.

rocker
11-27-2009, 12:08 PM
Huh? Who's offended?

I say serious in the fact that I actually don't understand the humor in "pointyball". I find it's most often said in a derogatory manner by those who don't like it. Not that I think this is a life or death subject.

No big deal....but c'mon. Pointyball is funny because the ball is pointy? Right.

you have no sense of humour then.

Shway
11-27-2009, 12:10 PM
^Thats what happens when you join the forums yesterday, you dont understand the daily inside jokes, and are quick to take peoples comments and try to make them look like they're an idiot.

Must be a politician

TFCRegina
11-27-2009, 12:10 PM
If you really want the Argos to not move to BMO, TFC supporters in Toronto should run a lobbying campaign for the Argos to get a new stadium and to stay out of BMO...it's common sense. Appear as if you are an Argo supporter but also a TFC supporter who will be pissed if they move into BMO.

Always There
11-27-2009, 12:11 PM
Holly smokes....a touchy subject.

Whatever. My parents are from England and call soccer football. I get that. They also have no problem saying the word soccer, when they are talking about both sports to avoid confusion.

Pointyball is commonly accepted? Yikes.

Phil
11-27-2009, 12:15 PM
Holly smokes....a touchy subject.

Whatever. My parents are from England and call soccer football. I get that. They also have no problem saying the word soccer, when they are talking about both sports to avoid confusion.

Pointyball is commonly accepted? Yikes.

Throwball is another.

tfcleeds
11-27-2009, 12:15 PM
Holly smokes....a touchy subject.

Whatever. My parents are from England and call soccer football. I get that. They also have no problem saying the word soccer, when they are talking about both sports to avoid confusion.

Pointyball is commonly accepted? Yikes.

On these boards, yes. ;)

Always There
11-27-2009, 12:17 PM
you have no sense of humour then.


How's that? I don't find the term "pointyball" funny so I don't have a sense of humor? It is a pointy ball. That's just what it is.

Literally describing something is a way of being funny now? Awesome! The world is a gold mine!

Blazer
11-27-2009, 12:17 PM
It just seems strange to refer to American Football, when you are talking about the Canadian Football League, even casually.

You seem opposed to saying soccer, so the choice was made, and you chose to refer to America rather than Canada. :canada:Boooo!

Well evidently you're misinterpreted my post then. You’ve missed the point altogether - just another case where you shouldn’t be sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong. Which is to say, (if that further confuses you) I wasn’t talking to you.

Shway
11-27-2009, 12:17 PM
I dont think theres a neeed to expain anymore

Shway
11-27-2009, 12:18 PM
Back On Topic


Argos Hellll Noooo!!!!!

Hitcho
11-27-2009, 12:20 PM
Ok come on guys. This thread is about the possibility fo the Argis moving into BMO Field, not a football vs CFL debate or any tangent to that.

Bottom line is, if it ever came to it (and I don't think it will) I wouldn't be surprised to see the Argo fans and TFC fans joining together to protest this. It sounds as though they would be as much against this as we would, for different reasons.

I have nothing against CFL or the Argos, but I am concerned that the Argos moving into BMO Field would impact quite seriously and quite negatively on TFC and it's home. That's all I really care about and I think what this thread is (supposed to be) about.

Holy shit, I've become Roogsy... :cryin: :D

TFCRegina
11-27-2009, 12:22 PM
Ok come on guys. This thread is about the possibility fo the Argis moving into BMO Field, not a football vs CFL debate or any tangent to that.

Bottom line is, if it ever came to it (and I don't think it will) I wouldn't be surprised to see the Argo fans and TFC fans joining together to protest this. It sounds as though they would be as much against this as we would, for different reasons.

I have nothing against CFL or the Argos, but I am concerned that the Argos moving into BMO Field would impact quite seriously and quite negatively on TFC and it's home. That's all I really care about and I think what this thread is (supposed to be) about.

Holy shit, I've become Roogsy... :cryin: :D

I agree. So you logroll and lobby for the Argos to get a new stadium so they stay out of your turf, even if the return to you is minimal or negative.

Because having them at BMO is a bigger negative than a new stadium being built for a team you may not be inclined towards.

Phil
11-27-2009, 12:23 PM
Ok come on guys. This thread is about the possibility fo the Argis moving into BMO Field, not a football vs CFL debate or any tangent to that.

Bottom line is, if it ever came to it (and I don't think it will) I wouldn't be surprised to see the Argo fans and TFC fans joining together to protest this. It sounds as though they would be as much against this as we would, for different reasons.

I have nothing against CFL or the Argos, but I am concerned that the Argos moving into BMO Field would impact quite seriously and quite negatively on TFC and it's home. That's all I really care about and I think what this thread is (supposed to be) about.

Holy shit, I've become Roogsy... :cryin: :D

It will impact Canadian soccer at the international level too. Competing schedules alone would make the venue a log jam not to mention the possible compromise of the pitch itself.

Always There
11-27-2009, 12:24 PM
Well evidently you're misinterpreted my post then. You’ve missed the point altogether - just another case where you shouldn’t be sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong. Which is to say, (if that further confuses you) I wasn’t talking to you.

No I didn't. You're just being defensive for some reason.

I got the point. I said I completely agreed with you. No need to be a jerk.

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 12:25 PM
^Only if they actually start using the National Soccer Stadium. But I like your optimism.

Boris
11-27-2009, 12:26 PM
No I didn't. You're just being defensive for some reason.

I got the point. I said I completely agreed with you. No need to be a jerk.

ok, you and blazer:
If there in an issue dont take this thread off topic.

gtaguy
11-27-2009, 12:26 PM
F. OOFFFFFFF Aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgooooooooooooooooooooss sssssssssssss.

best thing to do is to sell the team and put it somewhere like NUNAVUT.... maybe our near north neighbours might like some pointy ball up there..

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 12:28 PM
^that's helping.

tfcleeds
11-27-2009, 12:28 PM
Most of the Argos fans I know (and I know very few, admittedly) don't want to move to BMO anyway. That aside, there are too many impediments currently in place for an Argos move to BMO to be imminent.

Cynamon and Sokolowski change their minds like the weather changes. Tomorrow, they'll be saying the sale to Braley is still on.

I'm not worried about this at all yet.

Phil
11-27-2009, 12:29 PM
^Only if they actually start using the National Soccer Stadium. But I like your optimism.

That was the hold up right. Love the stadium, love the support, hate the field.

I would say that having a grass pitch and being in a large market like Toronto, the Canadian team would be eager to play and make money here.

Not going to happen if that field is torn up on a consistant basis. Big picture is it hurts the national program.

It hurts TFC.

From all accounts Argo fans didnt want the move and I dont think they should be thrilled about playing on a field that resembles NFL.

Phil
11-27-2009, 12:32 PM
Most of the Argos fans I know (and I know very few, admittedly) don't want to move to BMO anyway. That aside, there are too many impediments currently in place for an Argos move to BMO to be imminent.

Cynamon and Sokolowski change their minds like the weather changes. Tomorrow, they'll be saying the sale to Braley is still on.

I'm not worried about this at all yet.

I am worried about this. We should all be taking this one seriously.

Boris
11-27-2009, 12:34 PM
i for one am worried also.. Everytime this story comes back there is more steam to it....

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 12:36 PM
That was the hold up right. Love the stadium, love the support, hate the field.

I would say that having a grass pitch and being in a large market like Toronto, the Canadian team would be eager to play and make money here.

Not going to happen if that field is torn up on a consistant basis. Big picture is it hurts the national program.

It hurts TFC.

From all accounts Argo fans didnt want the move and I dont think they should be thrilled about playing on a field that resembles NFL.

It's a lot of unknowns but when one is weighing the money from almost a dozen CFL games to ???(# representing confirmed friendlies next year) and a factor of the CSA perhaps prioritizing Toronto as the home of Canada's National side they have other possible venues they could play in. Not to mention that they'll have pressure from the rest o the country to move the team around for maximum exposure as they have up till now.

LucaGol
11-27-2009, 12:39 PM
Could someone please summarize what the advantages of the Argos playing at BMO field are from a strictly economic point of view?

Is the master plan to ultimately move to BMO, expand seating and charge more for tickets because demand will outweigh supply?

Enlighten me.

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 12:42 PM
You just enlightened yourself. In public. How inappropriate.

Also the atmosphere would be better-easier to sell the product.

Redcoe15
11-27-2009, 01:00 PM
FUCK OFF ARGOS, theres no way we can allow for this to happen
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/football/argos-owners-want-team-to-move/article1379458/

http://limewoody.wordpress.com/files/2006/04/aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again2.jpg

Those two assclowns, Cynamon Girl and Sokolowski To Me, have got to be the worst owners in Canadian professional sports (and that's including MLSE!). First, they say they got a ton of money to buy the Phoenix Coyotes, yet they've shown they need a charitable donation from David Norris (aka, Blockhead) Braley, just to purchase the Argos.

And they could have gotten their own stadium to play in, with just the national soccer team as a flatmate, but backed out at the last minute so they could get a sweetheart deal from the SkyDome. If it wasn't for MLSE stepping up to the plate, there would have been no soccer stadium and no Toronto FC. And therefore, no serious competition for the Argonuts.

The result? A crappy on field product with dwindling interest in the community.

Now, they want to go crawling and crying again to Toronto City Council so that they can move their huge, sorry asses into BMO Field. After all the lobbying to get real grass into the stadium. Well...

FUCK! YOU! ARGONAUTS!!!

You had your chance, and you blew it. Either stay at the SkyDome, the only place you cold possibly afford to play in for free, or go move the team elsewheres. Like Quebec City, or Halifax, or Iqualuit, or the Pontiac Silverdome!


Two-faced scumholes!

Cashcleaner
11-27-2009, 01:00 PM
Now that the grass has been approved and a new usage deal has been made with the city, there's absolutely no way the Argos can move in. This can't be anymore than a move to try to squeeze the Rogers Centre into getting the club a better rent deal.

Let's look at the numbers:

The Toronto Argonauts draw upwards of 25,000 - 30,000 fans at Rogers Centre for most regular season games. BMO Field has a total capacity of just over 20,000. So basically, they won't even be able to fit their average attendance into the stadium if they made a move. And what about playoffs or if they wanted to host the Grey Cup again? Grey Cup '07 sold out at the Rogers Centre with 52,230 tickets sold. They couldn't do any of that at BMO Field without any MAJOR modification- it just doesn't have the capacity.

So it's more than obvious that BMO Field, as it is now, just doesn't have the capacity to accommodate the Argonauts. We'd have to find a way to increase seating by at least 50% (and that's thinking conservatively). That would definitely be no small feat, and to be honest, building a new stadium from scratch specifically to the Argo's specs would probably be a quicker and more economic option.

And on top of all that, let's remember that the city and MLSE just drew up a new usage agreement as part of the grass deal. After all those months of proposals and negotiations, neither the city or MLSE are going to tear up the new contract and start from scratch. Too much money has already gone into what we have now.

So no, I'm not worried myself over this news. Frankly, I never was because the whole deal never made sense in any way.

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 01:05 PM
Can you imagine Rogers Centre calling their bluff finally and raising their rent? Where would the Argos play instead?

Oblio2
11-27-2009, 01:07 PM
I actually think this is a good idea. Sharing our ground will be good for us and them, it creates a "Brotherhood" plus, we would get an expanded stadium. The Argos have the right to move and should do, and as such we should be welcoming hosts......




ok......

I can't type for laughing......




Sorry. Im winding you up.


IF this were to happen, I would not go to a TFC game again. :)

Oblio2
11-27-2009, 01:08 PM
Can you imagine Rogers Centre calling their bluff finally and raising their rent? Where would the Argos play instead?

Birchmount Stadium?

james
11-27-2009, 01:09 PM
Well since BMO will have real grass i dont think it would be possible for the Argos and TFC to share the field with out completely destroying the grass. They would have to replace the grass every year.

About 2 years ago the Pittsburg Steelers use to play on real grass. After replacing the grass 3 years in a row the Steelers changed to Turf because they said they just couldnt keep up with the grass maitnance and it was costing to much money to constently repairring the field. And thats a stadium that is only used by 1 NFL team that plays 8 games a year. Imagine having TFC playing 15 reguler season home games, few friendly games, Canadian Championship matches, possible chance of Champions League matches, Playoffs. It possible TFC can play 25-30 home matches a year. Add the Team Canada National team playing at BMO field, add the lacrosse team that plays about 5 games a year and add the Argos playing on that surface as well........the grass would never survive. They would be forced to either fix the field week after week or go back to Turf.

Dirk Diggler
11-27-2009, 01:11 PM
Can you imagine Rogers Centre calling their bluff finally and raising their rent? Where would the Argos play instead?

Hopefully somewhere outside the GTA.

Tiger-Cats
11-27-2009, 01:16 PM
Hopefully somewhere outside the GTA.

Hey Dig man, one of our teams in our CFL bugging you a tad? Go cry to mamma little boy.

CFL = :canada:

Go Cats Go!!!

Boris
11-27-2009, 01:16 PM
Hey Dig man, one of our teams in our CFL bugging you a tad? Go cry to mamma little boy.

CFL = :canada:

Go Cats Go!!!

.......do you ahve anything insightful to add? if not..i can easily ban you...

billyfly
11-27-2009, 01:18 PM
Here's an idea. The "Toronto" Pan Am games builds the stadium in Toronto and NOT Hamilton.

Voila! Argos get their stadium.

Boris
11-27-2009, 01:18 PM
Hey Dig man, one of our teams in our CFL bugging you a tad? Go cry to mamma little boy.

CFL = :canada:

Go Cats Go!!!

Anyone else want to act like this will be banned...just a warning...

billyfly
11-27-2009, 01:23 PM
Here's an idea. The "Toronto" Pan Am games builds the stadium in Toronto and NOT Hamilton.

Voila! Argos get their stadium.


Or like I said in the other thread we can lay the field turf that's coming out today down on the east parking lot and the Argos can play there.

Hitcho
11-27-2009, 01:27 PM
I'm pretty ambivalent about the Argos, other than to think it'd be a real shame for TO to lose one of its major sporting teams. I have no idea what the best solution is for them in terms fo stadia, but to be blunt I don't really care. Good luck to them, just somewhere else.

James' post above about destruction of the grass is a good one. MLS is expanding to 20 teams. That's probably 19 home games a year, plus two CCC matches, plus two friendlies, plus (potentially) four more home games from qualifying and group stages of the CCL. That's up to 27 home games a season. Add in one or two CMNT matches (surely they are going to want the big games at BMO Field on the grass and with the capacity and potential atmosphere, even if they don't want all CMNT games there) and you're approaching 30 matches a season. Plus some training time for the team. And then factor in the time it takes to let the grass recover after the winter each season. It would be very difficult to layer a CFL season on top of that, even if the scheduling could be worked out (which would be difficult in itself).

Here's another issue - BMO Field goes into winter mode and shuts off the water in the off season, no? At least, at the relocation event that's what we were told and there was no toilet facilities, and that was in November. Maybe the main building can be used through the winter but the outside toilets and stuff? It would be a big job to winter-proof those and keep the facilities open through a CFL season. An entire plumbing refit? On top of the stadium expansion and modification? On top of the grass issues laid out above?

This just seems more and more unlikely the more I think about it. Not to mention the MLSE standpoint I speculated on above (ie, no interest and no benefit to them).

And yet, all the while this rumour persists I will remain a tiny bit nervous about it...

redtfcred
11-27-2009, 01:30 PM
seeing that its not really TFC's stadium and they really should of built one ..
they almost deserve it ..

i think it will suck and wreck grass but hey Karma is a bitch

Canary Canuck
11-27-2009, 01:30 PM
Well since BMO will have real grass i dont think it would be possible for the Argos and TFC to share the field with out completely destroying the grass. They would have to replace the grass every year.

About 2 years ago the Pittsburg Steelers use to play on real grass. After replacing the grass 3 years in a row the Steelers changed to Turf because they said they just couldnt keep up with the grass maitnance and it was costing to much money to constently repairring the field. And thats a stadium that is only used by 1 NFL team that plays 8 games a year.

To be fair, it also hosts Pitt Panther home games and a ton of high school championship games.

Always There
11-27-2009, 01:35 PM
Anyone else want to act like this will be banned...just a warning...

What's this all about? Calm down "slumdog mastermind":facepalm:.

I'm pretty sure the guy was just joking around a little.

Always There
11-27-2009, 01:36 PM
To be fair, it also hosts Pitt Panther home games and a ton of high school championship games.

The Steelers also still play on real grass.

Boris
11-27-2009, 01:37 PM
What's this all about? Calm down "slumdog mastermind":facepalm:.

I'm pretty sure the guy was just joking around a little.

i just dont want this thread to be de-railed like many others.

Gobi
11-27-2009, 02:06 PM
I wouldn't have been too worried about this either.
With the Argos it's always a lot of sound and fury signaling nothing.

But if Rooney says Be Worried, then I will be.
I take what that man says very seriously.

F*ck, now I'm worried.
:flare:


Long Live Our Soccer Specific Stadium

mighty_torontofc_2008
11-27-2009, 02:15 PM
NO Argos EVER....please god strike the cfl down!! thats all i want for Xmas!!

Red Rat
11-27-2009, 02:24 PM
no worries boys...

The grass will always be greener on our side of the fence!!!



..

Roogsy
11-27-2009, 02:34 PM
What the hell???

I am away for a few days and the Argos are trying to scam their way in again?

Piss off!

billyfly
11-27-2009, 02:40 PM
^The universe was unbalanced b/c you were away.

ilikemusic
11-27-2009, 02:43 PM
I just cant imagine how, after all the trouble MLSE has gone to to put real grass down, I simply cant imagine them agreeing to share with the Argos.

That is, if MLSE has any say. Can the Argos just sort of bully their way in through the city? I havent read this whole thread, but I hear Rooney is nervous, so that cant be good.

:(

Hitcho
11-27-2009, 02:47 PM
What the hell???

I am away for a few days and the Argos are trying to scam their way in again?

Piss off!

Don't worry Roogs, I've been filling in for you, see bottom of p.4 above... :D

Parkdale
11-27-2009, 02:49 PM
here's a fact : the CFL field is longer than the current MLS field, so extra 'green stuff' would need to be added for every CFL game played there, and then taken away after. This might not be that expensive with firldturf, but imagine how much it would cost with real grass?

tfcleeds
11-27-2009, 02:52 PM
I agree we should remain vigilant in regards to what happens re: BMO and its soccer-specific status, but as others have pointed out, there are just too many issues right now that would make an Argos move problematic (which is good for us). Between the grass, the new usage agreement, etc. etc. there is no way the Argos will be moving in anytime soon.

Cynamon and Sokolowski are dreaming if they think they can move in by next season. I have no reason to believe that these two inept fools will get their way, certainly not by the beginning of the next CFL season.

Cashcleaner
11-27-2009, 02:59 PM
here's a fact : the CFL field is longer than the current MLS field, so extra 'green stuff' would need to be added for every CFL game played there, and then taken away after. This might not be that expensive with firldturf, but imagine how much it would cost with real grass?

Just throwing it out there, but they could just lay down artificial turf in the endzones and keep the rest of the field grass.

Wagner
11-27-2009, 03:03 PM
Just throwing it out there, but they could just lay down artificial turf in the endzones and keep the rest of the field grass.

the seam would be a huge liability thing...

Phil
11-27-2009, 03:04 PM
here's a fact : the CFL field is longer than the current MLS field, so extra 'green stuff' would need to be added for every CFL game played there, and then taken away after. This might not be that expensive with firldturf, but imagine how much it would cost with real grass?

Here is a fact from the article, they will play on a smaller field that is within the dimensions of the grass - ie: NFL size.

Seems wierd to sell out one of the aspects that contributes to your game being different.

Parkdale
11-27-2009, 03:05 PM
Just throwing it out there, but they could just lay down artificial turf in the endzones and keep the rest of the field grass.

BMO is currently 115 yards long, and the CFL needs 110 yards from goal line to goal line. However the additional 40 yards needed for the endzones would have to be found somewhere.

http://www.sportsknowhow.com/images/diagrams/football-canadian-CFL-field-dimensions-diagram-lrg.gif

http://www.sportsknowhow.com/images/diagrams/soccer-field-dimensions-diagram-lrg.gif


^ added the FIFA standard field to compare.

Parkdale
11-27-2009, 03:06 PM
and yeah, I'm just posting that for people interested in the size and dimensions.

clearly - the argos at BMO is bad for us and bad for them (their fans)

Wagner
11-27-2009, 03:06 PM
Here is a fact from the article, they will play on a smaller field that is within the dimensions of the grass - ie: NFL size.

Seems wierd to sell out one of the aspects that contributes to your game being different.

somewhere it said 115 yards.

NFL is 120. (100 plus 2 10yd endzones)

115 would be serious compromise.

100 yrd field, 7 yard endzones??

95 field and 10 yard endzones??

when the normal is

110 plus 2x 20 yard endzones = 150.

Cashcleaner
11-27-2009, 03:07 PM
BMO is currently 115 yards long, and the CFL needs 110 yards from goal line to goal line. However the additional 40 yards needed for the endzones would have to be found somewhere.

http://www.sportsknowhow.com/images/diagrams/football-canadian-CFL-field-dimensions-diagram-lrg.gif

This whole plan becomes less and less workable the more we consider it.

Wagner
11-27-2009, 03:08 PM
so the issue is more about length than width/girth?

Parkdale
11-27-2009, 03:09 PM
so the issue is more about length than width/girth?


damn you! :facepalm:

Rudi
11-27-2009, 03:09 PM
^ added the FIFA standard field to compare.
That seems awfully narrow to be a "FIFA standard field".

Toronto Ruffrider
11-27-2009, 03:10 PM
somewhere it said 115 yards.

NFL is 120. (100 plus 2 10yd endzones)

115 would be serious compromise.

100 yrd field, 7 yard endzones??

95 field and 10 yard endzones??

when the normal is

110 plus 2x 20 yard endzones = 150.

Good point. It would be the equivalent to playing soccer on a field that is only 60 yards wide - i.e. one of those fields that TFC played on during the preseason.

ilikemusic
11-27-2009, 03:10 PM
so the issue is more about length than width/girth?

Thats what she said.






:facepalm:

Parkdale
11-27-2009, 03:11 PM
That seems awfully narrow to be a "FIFA standard field".


well it's a US site.... whatdoyawantanyway?

Rudi
11-27-2009, 03:12 PM
well it's a US site.... whatdoyawantanyway?
Accuracy? :p

They got the CFL field right. And it's somehow wider than their soccer diagram. Plus very few soccer fields are only 100 yards in length.

Toronto Ruffrider
11-27-2009, 03:13 PM
A standard FIFA pitch is still 115 x 75, am I right?

Parkdale
11-27-2009, 03:14 PM
"FIFA rules state that a soccer field must be rectangular. It must be between 90 and 120 m (100 and 130 yd) long and between 45 and 90 m (50 and 100 yd) wide."

from - "Soccer." Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia


--- so the diagram I posted is the minimum for length, but okay for width.

Dirk Diggler
11-27-2009, 03:16 PM
Hey Dig man, one of our teams in our CFL bugging you a tad? Go cry to mamma little boy.

CFL = :canada:

Go Cats Go!!!

What is "one of our teams"? Does Bob Young own the Argonauts organization as well? No.

Parkdale
11-27-2009, 03:16 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_(soccer)#Pitch


The length of the pitch for international adult matches is in the range 100–110 m (110–120 yd) and the width is in the range 64–75 m (70–80 yd). Fields for non-international matches may be 91–120 m (100–130 yd) length and 45–91 m (50–101 yd) in width, provided that the pitch does not become square.

Toronto Ruffrider
11-27-2009, 03:20 PM
"FIFA rules state that a soccer field must be rectangular. It must be between 90 and 120 m (100 and 130 yd) long and between 45 and 90 m (50 and 100 yd) wide."

from - "Soccer." Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia


--- so the diagram I posted is the minimum for length, but okay for width.

For international matches, the standard is much stricter.

Min. Length: 110 yards
Max. Length: 120 yards

Min. Width: 70 yards
Max. Width: 80 yards

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/81/42/36/lawsofthegameen.pdf

Edit: I didn't see your wiki post before making this post.

Dirk Diggler
11-27-2009, 03:22 PM
somewhere it said 115 yards.

NFL is 120. (100 plus 2 10yd endzones)

115 would be serious compromise.

100 yrd field, 7 yard endzones??

95 field and 10 yard endzones??

when the normal is

110 plus 2x 20 yard endzones = 150.

110 yard field ... one 5 yard endzone ... the Argos are not in the business of scoring TDs so the lack of an endzone should not be an issue as long as the teams play from the same side of the field throughout the game.

Parkdale
11-27-2009, 03:25 PM
at a certain point, too small an endzone would be begging for injuries.

hell... even the players wouldn't want to be there.

I'd put money down the dressing rooms at the Skydome are just a bit bigger than the ones at BMO.

Toronto Ruffrider
11-27-2009, 03:25 PM
Hell, if the CFL is willing to compromise on field size, why not just throw the Argos into the ACC? Every 10 yards the field will alternate between strips of field turf and ice.

Wagner
11-27-2009, 03:25 PM
thinking more about it...a 35 yard difference is huge...like the entire beer garden and probably the steps of the foodbuilding would need to be excavated, and field goals would be kicked over the foodbuilding...

and 127 would be closer to centrefield...
and the seats are angled for footy...

that massive scoreboard would have to move.

you'd have to raze those huts in the north...

move the box office...

all for 9 or 10 pointyball games....lets say they sell the place out....

20,000 average $30 per ticket.

10 games x 20,000 x 30 = 6 million gross.

minus rent, minus operating (security, etc) minus salaries....even if they get to keep half..3 million a season....that would mean 5 years just to break even if the project doesn't run over...which it will.

so it would be more like 7 years just to pay off the expansion cost.

LOL

Parkdale
11-27-2009, 03:26 PM
and field goals would be kicked over the foodbuilding...


naw, they'd just put up nets.... and leave them there to stop the beer tossers!

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn12/Evilpens/its-a-conspiracy.jpg

Rudi
11-27-2009, 03:27 PM
thinking more about it...a 35 yard difference is huge...like the entire beer garden and probably the steps of the foodbuilding would need to be excavated, and field goals would be kicked over the foodbuilding...
... and on to the Gardiner. :D

Dirk Diggler
11-27-2009, 03:30 PM
If the CFL approves this than any credibility that it had in my eyes (not much to begin with) will be gone forever. All this "This is our game" bullshit ... yet they do not even respect their game enough to play within regulation field dimensions.

Dirk Diggler
11-27-2009, 03:31 PM
With that said, I doubt that this idea has been run through the league yet. Seems more like shenanigans from those two clown owners.

egoodwin
11-27-2009, 03:39 PM
What is bullshit, is making it bigger so that a secondary tenant can have a more intimate setting than the primary tenant, which will make our setting less intimate... especially if we miss the playoffs again next season (god forbid)...

billyfly
11-27-2009, 03:45 PM
Why can't a city as big as Toronto have 1 stadium for the Argos and 1 stadium for TFC?

MTL does!

egoodwin
11-27-2009, 03:51 PM
FYI:

http://www.friendsoftheargonauts.ca/touchdown/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1359&start=10

egoodwin
11-27-2009, 03:52 PM
Why can't a city as big as Toronto have 1 stadium for the Argos and 1 stadium for TFC?

MTL does!
because in TO, the condo comes first...

Beach_Red
11-27-2009, 04:02 PM
Why can't a city as big as Toronto have 1 stadium for the Argos and 1 stadium for TFC?

MTL does!


Montreal got lucky because Molson Stadium was already there.

Toronto has no ownership groups that will step up, every compay in this city just asks the government for handouts.

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 04:06 PM
^Wait that's Molson Percival McGill stadium we're talking about. No reason they couldn't do that to Varsity or York. They just couldn't agree who's priority.

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 04:07 PM
FYI:

http://www.friendsoftheargonauts.ca/touchdown/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1359&start=10

Man it's dead in there. No wonder they wanna troll here.

tfcleeds
11-27-2009, 04:07 PM
Expand Varsity...at least the field dimensions are already OK there.

BC101
11-27-2009, 04:08 PM
No TFC season would be complete without the Argos into BMO threads :)

tfcleeds
11-27-2009, 04:08 PM
Oops, didn't see Redcoat's post.

craigtfc
11-27-2009, 04:10 PM
Not a chance this will fly so to the agros and company thanks but go fuck your grandmas hat peg.

SweetOwnGoal
11-27-2009, 04:16 PM
This is further along than we would like...

I know there are some that can back me up on here... (http://www.24thminute.com/2009/11/football-specific-stadium-argos-to-bmo.html)

Shakes McQueen
11-27-2009, 04:24 PM
How do you "repair" a pitch after a CFL game?

God I'd love to punch the Argos owners in the fucking face, the morons. You pulled out of two previous stadium proposals, and now you want to bully your way into the one built for us? All the while acting like the victims here? FUCK YOU.

- Scott

ManUtd4ever
11-27-2009, 04:27 PM
This is further along than we would like...

I know there are some that can back me up on here... (http://www.24thminute.com/2009/11/football-specific-stadium-argos-to-bmo.html)

The letter of intent is simply an attempt to garner some leverage in negotiations with the Rogers Centre. Again, it is impractical on so many levels and a shameful tactic on the part of the Argos ownership...

Rudi
11-27-2009, 04:28 PM
The letter of intent is simply an attempt to garner some leverage in negotiations with the Rogers Centre.
I'm curious as to why you are so sure about this.

I'm not.

SweetOwnGoal
11-27-2009, 04:30 PM
The letter of intent is simply an attempt to garner some leverage in negotiations with the Rogers Centre. Again, it is impractical on so many levels and a shameful tactic on the part of the Argos ownership...

Maybe. But, I know for an absolute fact that the TFC FO is worried.

An absolute fact.

Shakes McQueen
11-27-2009, 04:34 PM
I just don't get how the city could say to MLSE - yeah, you know that incredibly expensive proposal we just passed to let you guys install a world-class soccer pitch at BMO Field? Well, we've decided to let the CFL come and tear it the fuck up every other weekend.

And judging by the article in the Sun, Joe Pantalone is cheerleading this idea of the Argos coming to BMO Field all the way.

We need to take action, if this looks imminent.

- Scott

ensco
11-27-2009, 04:37 PM
One of the objectives here: it could be an attempt to put pressure on MLSE to buy the Argos

"Just pay us a couple of million and the problem goes away, you can have them play wherever you want" sort of thing....

Hitcho
11-27-2009, 04:38 PM
The letter of intent is simply an attempt to garner some leverage in negotiations with the Rogers Centre. Again, it is impractical on so many levels and a shameful tactic on the part of the Argos ownership...

I dunno. There's a lot in that article that would make me very worried if it had any substance to it.

RPB uber-beings - time to organise a sensible and well thought out group protest? I don't think pitch forks at dawn will help us much, but we should definitely start thinking about an organised response to this. If the Argos are looking at next season for entry into BMO Field, then things are going to happen very quickly from here...

Beach_Red
11-27-2009, 04:41 PM
I just don't get how the city could say to MLSE - yeah, you know that incredibly expensive proposal we just passed to let you guys install a world-class soccer pitch at BMO Field? Well, we've decided to let the CFL come and tear it the fuck up every other weekend.




You don't? We're talking about Toronto city council here. And when former CFL commissioner John Tory is mayor...

Yes, the clear answer is Varsity. They could easily copy the Montreal example and it would work great. I'd go Argos games at Varsity.

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 04:44 PM
They didn't take that deal because they wanted priority over UofT games and events plus no track= no Argos there.

Beach_Red
11-27-2009, 04:46 PM
They didn't take that deal because they wanted priority over UofT games and events plus no track= no Argos there.

Sure, but now it's starting to look like a much better deal. No one wants to buy the team, Rogers Center is a terrible place to play and BMO is out of the question (or will be soon enough - the only danger is Tory as mayor).

They're businessmen, they'll see it as a great deal now.

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 04:49 PM
Your lips--->God's ear, BR.

ManUtd4ever
11-27-2009, 04:53 PM
I'm curious as to why you are so sure about this.

I'm not.

The more I read this thread the more I realize how ludicrous this whole concept is from some perspectives I hadn't even taken into consideration aside from the obvious. The conditions outlined in the letter of intent would be a logistical nightmare for all parties involved. I realize the "threat" is real but it is simply not viable from a logical point of view...

SweetOwnGoal
11-27-2009, 04:54 PM
I dunno. There's a lot in that article that would make me very worried if it had any substance to it.

.

Talk to your leadership. They will confirm that the info is credible.

egoodwin
11-27-2009, 04:56 PM
someone should call Tory's radio show tonight and see what he thinks about it...

Toronto Gunner
11-27-2009, 04:57 PM
From Paul Beirne (Senior Director of Operations for TFC):


If you're a fan of the beautiful game in Canada, and you're wondering when's a good time to stand up and be heard...how about NOW!

Protest Time? Me thinks so. Time for a good ole rally.

Leadership: get organizing!

egoodwin
11-27-2009, 05:00 PM
well you know how the media just loves to report about facebook groups...

ensco
11-27-2009, 05:00 PM
A question for the reporters out there: I'd be interested to know the opinion of each of the following:

- the CFL league office,
- TSN, and
- longtime Argo season ticket holders

The Argos are a weak sister in the CFL. The Argo owners might benefit from this, but playing on a 95 yard field (with 10 yard endzones) would damage the image of the league and would severely alienate the league's hardcore fans (who deserve our respect, and whose interest aligns with ours on this).

yellowfellow
11-27-2009, 05:25 PM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/2009/11/27/toronto_councillor_argos_bmo/

City Councillor backs Argos at BMO.

This douchebag only talks about the Argos. I don't think TFC ever crosses his mind.

Toronto Ruffrider
11-27-2009, 05:25 PM
Looking at venue options, I don't understand why the Argos don't make a push for Lamport Stadium. That venue could surely be renovated and expanded to meet the Argos' demands - there appears to be ample real estate to work with on the south, east and west sides of the stadium. The Argos would also benefit from being the prime tenant at that facility.

rocker
11-27-2009, 05:28 PM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/2009/11/27/toronto_councillor_argos_bmo/

City Councillor backs Argos at BMO.

This douchebag only talks about the Argos. I don't think TFC ever crosses his mind.

oh my.

"It’s not only good for the city, it’s good for the CFL. They’re a very community-oriented team, they’re working with youth, and that’s what we need."

I don't get why moving to BMO has ANYTHING to do with how "community-oriented" they are and the "youth".

If the Argos are interested in the community and the youth, they can build some CFL fields for the kids, the way TFC is doing.

DowntownTO
11-27-2009, 05:31 PM
FUCK YOU YOU FUCKIN' FUCK! (Argos)

There's NO WAY you are going to be putting that crap of a sport on our field.
NO WAY.
Get your own fuckin stadium.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
11-27-2009, 05:35 PM
FUCK YOU YOU FUCKIN' FUCK! (Argos)

There's NO WAY you are going to be putting that crap of a sport on our field.
NO WAY.
Get your own fuckin stadium.

Pic i made .. few years back....thought id bring it back from the dead!:drinking:

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5057/83123153.png (http://www.imagehosting.com/)

rocker
11-27-2009, 05:37 PM
let's mobilize, people!

:hulk:


:scarf::scarf::flare:

yellowfellow
11-27-2009, 05:38 PM
Pinball is a huge soccer fan!

jimiv
11-27-2009, 05:39 PM
You need to speak up..

email your councillor (see toronto.ca), as well as Councillor Grimes, councillor_grimes@toronto.ca
and the Argos at info@argonauts.ca and tell them your opinion.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
11-27-2009, 05:40 PM
MLSE..you want a 3million dollar investment on GRASS to get torn to shreds.......

Wait till a raining day in TO.....and what a CFL football game can do to a pitch..!

yellowfellow
11-27-2009, 05:40 PM
I think the Argos should renovate varsity stadium for UofT and play there. Both Argos and UofT play on a field of the same size.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
11-27-2009, 05:42 PM
I think the Argos should renovate varsity stadium for UofT and play there. Both Argos and UofT play on a field of the same size.


Exactly....do what montreal did !

yellowfellow
11-27-2009, 05:42 PM
In situations like this, I am glad MLSE is the team owner. They can't let some douches ruin their investment$$$$$$.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
11-27-2009, 05:44 PM
Thing is......if MLSE can get a 15million dollar upgrade on BMO field without paying a dime...10 000 extra seats..ect...they might just be smart enough to fall for this.....

might just be out of our hands!

Rudi
11-27-2009, 05:45 PM
Thing is......if MLSE can get a 15million dollar upgrade on BMO field without paying a dime...10 000 extra seats..ect...they might just be smart enough to fall for this.....

might just be out of our hands!
Um, no.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
11-27-2009, 05:46 PM
Um, no.

i hear ya....and i hope it never happens!

rocker
11-27-2009, 05:47 PM
Argos won't spend a dime on this... too cheap. so if they move in, it'll be an attempt to play in the current configuration.

yellowfellow
11-27-2009, 05:48 PM
On the other hand, MLSE might want to protect their own money making machine.

I think BMO is being brought up because Argos want to steal TFC's magical atmosphere. Varsity stadium would be more logical for them in terms of helping the community and playing without the lakeshore winter wind.

Hustle
11-27-2009, 05:51 PM
From Paul Beirne (Senior Director of Operations for TFC):



Protest Time? Me thinks so. Time for a good ole rally.

Leadership: get organizing!


And with that, I have to pull out my old avatar.

Phil
11-27-2009, 05:53 PM
You need to speak up..

email your councillor (see toronto.ca), as well as Councillor Grimes, councillor_grimes@toronto.ca
and the Argos at info@argonauts.ca and tell them your opinion.


I think this is an excellent place to start.

kitchener-TFC
11-27-2009, 05:54 PM
BUILD YOUR OWN FUCKING STADIUM YOU MORONS.

:canada:

I hope that MLSE will prevent this from happening. They're not investing millions of dollars in grass for the fuckin Argo's to come in and tear it up.

boban
11-27-2009, 05:56 PM
This is getting tiresome and irritating.
Every year they squeal about moving into the NSS.
Fuck off already.

ManUtd4ever
11-27-2009, 06:05 PM
What if this just posturing on the part of Cynamon and Sokolowski and it is actually the precursor to trying to obtain partial government funding towards a renovation of Varsity/Lamport Stadium or constructing a new stadium that will also serve as a community use facility...It could be a last ditch attempt to profit as owners of the Argonuats franchise or they'll ditch the club. Argos ownership is well aware of the public relations nightmare relocating to BMO Field will cause as well as the logistical and financial hindrances involved. Once this falls through (it better for TFC's sake), the Argos ownership will be able to say they exhausted all other avenues and request the aforementioned government funding and save a few bucks. Cynamon and Sokolowski may be trying to emulate what MLSE did with the construction of BMO Field...

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
11-27-2009, 06:05 PM
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/8637/68177405.png (http://www.imagehosting.com/)

tfcleeds
11-27-2009, 06:10 PM
They're talking about it on FAN 590 right now...general consensus among the guests is that it is a smokescreen.

bones
11-27-2009, 06:13 PM
Did we get this upset last year? Will we get upset next year at this time?

My point here is they're just causing a shit storm (again) because it's renewal time for the Sky (still say they should have named it after Conn Smythe) Dome.

Bones...

rocker
11-27-2009, 06:23 PM
but don't they negotiate 5 year leases with Skydome?
so we should only hear this once ever 5 years.. not every year.
i worry that at one point we'll let the guard down cuz they are "crying wolf" and they'll slide right in... keep up the vigilance!

mighty_torontofc_2008
11-27-2009, 06:24 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have found our slogan.


"Argonot in our stadium"

King Dave - make a flag!


thats a good one..:}

Boris
11-27-2009, 06:25 PM
trust me...mlse doesnt want this. Theres a lot more to come guys..stay tuned

Boris
11-27-2009, 06:27 PM
but don't they negotiate 5 year leases with Skydome?
so we should only hear this once ever 5 years.. not every year.
i worry that at one point we'll let the guard down cuz they are "crying wolf" and they'll slide right in... keep up the vigilance!

yes.
with that said we cant go all rebel like and cause a shit storm. We have enough people working on this that we will think of the best solution VERY SOON.
We are trying to stay a couple steps ahead....

bones
11-27-2009, 06:28 PM
trust me...mlse doesnt want this. Theres a lot more to come guys..stay tuned

If MLSE can keep a second hockey team out of it's market, aka Hamilton, they'll have no problem keeping the Argo-nothings out of BMO.

Bones...

Boris
11-27-2009, 06:29 PM
If MLSE can keep a second hockey team out of it's market, aka Hamilton, they'll have no problem keeping the Argo-nothings out of BMO.

Bones...

mlse can only do so much on this.

Roogsy
11-27-2009, 06:35 PM
The good thing: MLSE doesn't want this. The bad thing: its not MLSE' call.

If the city bends to the crooked Argo owner's demands, they are going to get an earful from TFC season ticket holders and the Canadian soccer fan.

VPjr
11-27-2009, 06:36 PM
Guys, this is a VERY SERIOUS Threat.

I've just received a call from a top CSA official that has told me in no uncertain terms that the Argos are VERY serious about wanting into BMO Field and that the City of Toronto is very willing to let it happen, as long as the CFL will allow the Argos to play on a smaller field.

This would be a massive setback for the sport of soccer in Toronto. MASSIVE.

Those of you how are city of Toronto taxpayers....I urge you to make your voice heard. Use whatever means you have to communicate that you don't want this to happen.

All TFC Season Ticket holders ought to also petition TFC front office and MLSE head office with the demand that they actively try to purchase the sad sack Argos simply to keep them out of BMO Field. It is the only way I can see that they can keep them out of BMO.

I, for one, would drop my TFC season tickets instantly if I ever went to a game at BMO and saw gridiron lines on the pitch. Have you ever seen how chewed up Robertson Stadium looks in September and October once they start playing american football on that field. It would be a huge shame to let that happen to BMO's soon to be installed grass field.

andyc
11-27-2009, 06:38 PM
I received an email today from the GTHL (my kids play hockey as well as football) and they are actively fighting a potential change in ice time allocations by the city. Anyways the reason I'm posting is the method they are using to get parents to reach out to the city to register protest.

Below is a copy of the suggested approach. This could be easily reworded and distributed widely...

In light of the very short time frame and to make it as easy as possible for you to email your City Councillor, you need only take 6 quick steps:

1. Open your email browser and initiate a new email.
2. Paste the list of email addresses of council members and the Mayor (let them all know how you feel) into the CC section of your forwarded email

3. Put your councillor's email address in the TO line of the email, or if you do not know their name or email, click on this link to access your Councillor's name and email and put this in the "TO ; line

4. Insert your message to City Council and ADD your name and address (A Draft to use as the basic text for your email subject to your own edits is below)

5. HIT SEND

Not a bad approach... Included in the email was a list of all the councilors emails addresses and suggested wording of the email. I couldn't post the list of email addresses as I hit a number of character limit in the post. If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll post it.