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SweetOwnGoal
11-26-2009, 05:33 PM
From pretty solid sources.... (http://www.24thminute.com/2009/11/trader-mo-to-be-busy.html)

H Bomb
11-26-2009, 05:36 PM
iiiiintresting.

Fine by me, players come and go, we lose games, earth rotates on an axis. can't help but let it happen. Also I'd like one of those great defenders people talk so much about

Lucky Strike
11-26-2009, 05:43 PM
Wow, moving Frei. It would take serious balls to make that move.

ensco
11-26-2009, 05:49 PM
If you want/need to make changes....face it, Frei may be moved simply because he's movable. Same for Wynne or even Cronin, btw.

Nobody is going to trade anything to us for Guevara or Garcia or Vitti or Edwards.

TFCRegina
11-26-2009, 05:55 PM
Wow, moving Frei. It would take serious balls to make that move.

Not really, Edwards is a quality keeper in MLS, and could start if it weren't for Frei. Keepers, despite their important role at keeping the ball out of the net, are nothing without a solid back line. We could trade Frei, get a 1st Round pick and pick up a Central Defender which we desperately need.

mighty_torontofc_2008
11-26-2009, 06:01 PM
Dont want to see Frei gone period even for a first round pick, we have tons of midfielders that we could use as bait.

TFC USA
11-26-2009, 06:07 PM
Please don't dump Frei.

Dump Brennan, Barrett, GARCIA, even Wynne. Not Frei.

wzhxvy
11-26-2009, 06:20 PM
They are going to trade Frei because he will eventually go to Europe ? Oh yeah...what kind of genius critical thinking skills did it take to come up with that ?!!! So they trade him for a first rounder and maybe a second rounder...essentially what they paid for him...and lose out on the potential buyout in the future, and acquire an unknown when they know exactly what they have with Frei ???!!!!

This would be a retarded move...maybe instead of giving away our first round picks Mo like you did, you genius, you should have kept them....

rocker
11-26-2009, 06:20 PM
Please don't dump Frei.

Dump Brennan, Barrett, GARCIA, even Wynne. Not Frei.

but Frei has high value.. while those guys don't. so if you want to upgrade the team positively, maybe you have to move Frei.

Brooker
11-26-2009, 06:26 PM
Mo always keeps it interesting.... for better or worse.

CretanBull
11-26-2009, 06:41 PM
I'd love to see Ike Opara play here, but he'd be just like Frei and off to Europe sooner rather than later (the reason he didn't enter the draft last season was to increase his eligibilty in Europe).

TFCtoMUFC
11-26-2009, 06:44 PM
Please don't dump Frei.

Dump Brennan, Barrett, GARCIA, even Wynne. Not Frei.

Add Guevera and Robbo to that list.

brad
11-26-2009, 07:05 PM
My guess at Frei - they think he's expendable. Edwards has done fine playing in front of a shit defense (New York game aside). Trade Frei to improve the defense, improved defense with Edwards = better team.

ag futbol
11-26-2009, 07:16 PM
When it really came down to it this year, i'm not sure that Edwards has it to be a MLS number one. Frei's shot stopping is superior ... i'd rather not mess with what's working right now.

I think we'd have pretty short memories to forget how badly Frei saved this team early on in the year. Edwards had some nice stand in games, but isn't even close to his level.

SweetOwnGoal
11-26-2009, 07:18 PM
My guess at Frei - they think he's expendable. Edwards has done fine playing in front of a shit defense (New York game aside). Trade Frei to improve the defense, improved defense with Edwards = better team.


Edwards is not in their long term No. 1 plans.

Fishnicker
11-26-2009, 08:09 PM
So would you get more by trading him or from the transfer fee?

Even if the transfer is similar to Edu's, we only get a little allocation and the rest is in trust for infrastructure. Depending on player moves and where the CBA goes, maybe that allocation isn't necessary.

Trading him now while his value is high (will MLS be pissed if we trade him after they did us a solid?) might return high 1st rounder and some allocation.

If the FO is sure he's going to Europe in the next couple of years and doesn't regress like Wynne I think we should cash in now.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2009, 08:42 PM
meh, i like frei but it wouldnt kill me to see him go, but for a draft cb? or a draft goalie? nah no thanks, id rather see some proven players rather then gamble again on some ncaa players

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2009, 08:42 PM
dont think MLS would be pissed after they did us a solid as itd just be an extension of the favor they did for us

adam1001
11-26-2009, 09:36 PM
I agree that moving frei would be a huge mistake...Brian edwards is not quite a starting keeper. However, I remember watching Brian Perk play at the U20 world cup and he was quite impressive.

Sullivan
11-26-2009, 10:01 PM
If Frei is in play to Philly in exchange for #1 so be it.

Hopefully Preki adopts a Long Term Player Development Program and stability via access to MLSE's resources. Lord knows Moe hasn't, however both have a reputation for churning players.

Until he rejected Gen A last year, Opara was more coveted than Gonzalaz.
What swayed Opara's decision last year was this yr's U20 WC. Too bad he had a poor showing and interest from Europe has dropped off. Opara's decision on Gen A this year will come once Wake's season is complete.

In many MLS circles, Opara is back at the top, the most prized jewel.
Gen A has only 8-10 spots, 2 are allegedly gone (Duka & Gil).
New York has the 2nd spot and will probably take Duka, who didn't qualify as a Red Bull Academy development player (another one of those strange rule interpretations by MLS). If Opara does sign with Gen A, he'll be gone with #1, most certainly by SJ if he's available at 3.

Gen A is stocked as NCAA field narrows. This is also the final assessment in putting the combine list together.
Track NCAA Div I here:
http://www.ncaa.com/brackets/2009/ncaa_bracket_DI_soccer_men.html

BTW, Wake takes on Duke on Sunday, 3rd Round (Another ACC clash - expect a full house of MLS scouts & coaches).

Track Gen A here: http://www.3rddegree.net/ga-tracking/

The potential quarter final match-up between Wake & UCLA must have TFC salivating.

If TFC can't get to Opara, but do acquire a high to middle 1st round pick (trading Guevara), it could be Ofori Sarkodie, a senior D from Indiana. Athletic, powerful and quick. Very good tactical knowledge, makes good decisions early. Knows how to read a game. He shouldn't take long adapting to Preki's way of playing or the transition to MLS. Ofori should not be confused with younger brother Kofi (Akron Zips), who is also a Gen A target. Kofi won't go Gen A - parents very strict in that children get educated. Ofori has been a Gen A target for 3 years.

TFC picks 24th (2nd round (middle)) & 53rd (4th round(early)); nothing in the 1st or the 3rd rounds. 16 teams, 4 rounds, no supplemantary draft.
Philadelphia Union select 1st in each round as they are the expansion team. Draft is in Philly, during the annual NSCAA Convention. In an earlier version of the "on-line" schedule, I saw the draft on Tuesday Jan 12; now its not even listed.

billyfly
11-26-2009, 10:13 PM
So i take it that we are not trying to get Elizabeth Lambert?

Sullivan
11-26-2009, 10:28 PM
So i take it that we are not trying to get Elizabeth Lambert?

Naw, she's a Jr, so she's not eleigible. But ya never know, the way Moe wastes late round picks, he just might toss the 53rd on her ...
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4629837

Gixmo
11-26-2009, 10:47 PM
While I can the benefits to moving Frei, I just don't think it the right idea yet. Sure, he will go to Europe and we will take a chance waiting, but trading him for a draft pick just does not seem right. I'm not the GM, but that would totally bum me out... By far my 'fav' but also a guy you could build a team about. I just don't feel it with Edwards... and well, We can move others for picks or let trader Mo work his magic.. Just don't move Stefan....

TFC07
11-26-2009, 10:50 PM
No offence, but we need an experienced CB, not some rookie. Also I don't the idea of trading a player that we can make some serious money off by sending him to europe. We don't need anymore college players on this team. We need players in their prime right now. We got enough youth on this team. This draft isn't going to make or break TFC in the next season.

Hitcho
11-26-2009, 10:52 PM
if the league really considers TFC to be a key market, then they might want to tell that to the fucking refs and linesmen, who come up here and churn out bullshit decisions all season long! :D:D:D

Nuvinho
11-26-2009, 10:58 PM
I like the fact that we want from this draft a Defender and a keeper. If Mo pulls that off, by trading away Frei and our 2nd round pick.....I'd be okay with that.

Sullivan
11-26-2009, 11:11 PM
I'm guessing Edwards is not Preki's choice for a #1.

Dangling Frei I think is contingent upon dumping Guevara's contract via a trade for a decent 1st round pick that would secure Perk, who is a graduating senior from UCLA. Perk is a stronger keeper than Edwards. He also turned down Gen A last year to go to Egypt with the US u20 for this year's WC. Remember, Gen A is limited to 1 kpr and last year it was Frei, after Perk turned MLS down.

Also, Perk does train with the Galaxy when not on USSF or UCLA duty.

Preki very much in the know about Perk. As is every other MLS club.

And, there are clubs interested in Guevara and a trade. I don't see any value in TFC denying any club from advance talks with AG about his future plans.

Hitcho
11-26-2009, 11:14 PM
I think this is too big of a gamble. Frei is proven quality with bags of potential and he's free in terms of cap space this season. A rookie CB from the draft is a big gamble to toss out a keeper like that for.

Besides which, I think in Nana, Serioux and Gomez we have adequate CBs and both Nana and Gomex will only get better. If Robbo gets back to form this season and used correctly then he'll ease the pressure on the CBs, especially if Frei stays and we can build on a consistent back line.

I'd rather see us trade/release the likes of Garcia and Vitti and use the cap space to bring in some wide players from outside MLS.

swan
11-26-2009, 11:21 PM
When it really came down to it this year, i'm not sure that Edwards has it to be a MLS number one. Frei's shot stopping is superior ... i'd rather not mess with what's working right now.

I think we'd have pretty short memories to forget how badly Frei saved this team early on in the year. Edwards had some nice stand in games, but isn't even close to his level.


bingo...

it's just stupid to let frei go and think edwards is good enough...

Nuvinho
11-26-2009, 11:31 PM
I don't think most of us can say its a bad move to trade Frei, without knowing much about Perk or Opara or anyone else in the draft.

We definately do need a CB, we don't have enough quality back there.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-26-2009, 11:45 PM
i wont argue with needing more CBs i am saying that we need more than a rookie in that back line

Hitcho
11-26-2009, 11:57 PM
I don't think most of us can say its a bad move to trade Frei, without knowing much about Perk or Opara or anyone else in the draft.

We definately do need a CB, we don't have enough quality back there.

This makes no sense, of course we can say we think it's a bad move to trade a great young keeper for someone most of us have never seen play! It's got "huge risk" written all over it, especially since there's no guarantee at all we will get Perk in the draft and then we'd be quite fucked.

I agree we don't have a commanding CB that eats MLS forwards for breakfast, but in this league there is always ging to be at least one area where you are not super strong, and I think we need a striker and some wide players more than we need another CB, where we have Nana, Serioux and Gomez. CB can be improved for sure, but not as much as wings (where we basically have no-one) and striker (where we have a young potential, an unskilled work horse and a lump).

Nuvinho
11-27-2009, 12:05 AM
^ this makes no sense, of course we can say we think it's a bad move to trade a great young keeper for someone most of us have never seen play! It's got "huge risk" written all over it.

I agree we don;t have a commanding CB that east MLS forwards for breakfast, but in this league there i always ging to be at least one area you are not super strong, and I think we need a striker and some wide players more than we need another CB, where we have Nana, Serioux and Gomez. CB can be improved for sure, but not as much as wings (where we basically have no-one) and striker (where we have a young potential, an unskilled work horse and a lump).

We may not have seen play before, but others with more insight and better knowledge of the game have seen these players before.

I bet last year, if someone said we were going to trade Sutton for an inexperienced keeper, people would get all upset.

We over value our players too much.....Serioux is not that good, Gomez is still young and not ready, and Nana is our best defender but that's not saying much. Not saying that he isn't good, but we don't have good CBs at all compared to the other competitive teams in the league. Compare our CBs to that of the Galaxy, RSL, Chicago, Columbus, etc.

Nuvinho
11-27-2009, 12:12 AM
more GA tracking:

http://www.3rddegree.net/ga-tracking/

prizby
11-27-2009, 02:02 AM
i don't like these marvel wynne haters because i want to see if preki will use him correctly, ie...time for him to play the right wing where he can excel!!

CretanBull
11-27-2009, 02:34 AM
i don't like these marvel wynne haters because i want to see if preki will use him correctly, ie...time for him to play the right wing where he can excel!!

Wynne would be a nightmare on the wing...he can't cross the ball, he struggles to run with the ball at his feet and he can't break down a defender.

Auzzy
11-27-2009, 02:35 AM
So i take it that we are not trying to get Elizabeth Lambert?

LMAO! With Lambert & a healthy Serioux at CB, opposing forwards would all have to play with diapers to avoid shitting their pants. Vitti just better make sure he doesn't get traded and ends up playing against TFC up front. His pony tail would be a prime target....

CretanBull
11-27-2009, 02:50 AM
No offence, but we need an experienced CB, not some rookie. Also I don't the idea of trading a player that we can make some serious money off by sending him to europe. We don't need anymore college players on this team. We need players in their prime right now. We got enough youth on this team. This draft isn't going to make or break TFC in the next season.

While I don't really want to see Frei leave, its worth noting that Frei isn't likely to fetch much in terms of a transfer fee* and last season most people (myself included) thought that Opara was better than Gonzalaz, and Gonzalaz made a huge impact as a rookie on LA's backline.

I think the general consensus is that there is a surplus of quality keepers in the MLS (the reason why Frei slipped to the 13th pick) so if we can get a good CB (of which there's a shortage of) for a GK then it makes sense.


*Brad Guzan earned Chivas somewhere around $1 million after establishing himself in the league and gaining the attention of Villa. Frei hasn't really established himself and I can't see a club like Villa taking an interest in him at this point.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-27-2009, 02:55 AM
Wynne would be a nightmare on the wing...he can't cross the ball, he struggles to run with the ball at his feet and he can't break down a defender.

yeah this has been tried several times and had poor results every time

druid
11-27-2009, 06:17 AM
Anyone else think we need an experienced CB to play along side NA and not a rookie?

TFCtoMUFC
11-27-2009, 07:29 AM
Anyone else think we need an experienced CB to play along side NA and not a rookie?

If Opara chooses MLS I think it will cost us less to take a gamble on him than on an experienced defender like Conde for example.

Also look at Mo's track record, drafted really well last year with Cronin, Frei and OBW. So I think whoever he picks will help us more at a lesser cost.

TFCtoMUFC
11-27-2009, 07:31 AM
What about Hainault? Never hurts to have another Canadian considering Vancouver is coming next year. I want Mo to keep Gerba so that Vancouver can take him.

Lucky Strike
11-27-2009, 08:30 AM
I think this is too big of a gamble. Frei is proven quality with bags of potential and he's free in terms of cap space this season. A rookie CB from the draft is a big gamble to toss out a keeper like that for.

Besides which, I think in Nana, Serioux and Gomez we have adequate CBs and both Nana and Gomex will only get better. If Robbo gets back to form this season and used correctly then he'll ease the pressure on the CBs, especially if Frei stays and we can build on a consistent back line.

I'd rather see us trade/release the likes of Garcia and Vitti and use the cap space to bring in some wide players from outside MLS.

Wow, my thoughts exactly. That's really convenient to have them written down already! :D

Section 117
11-27-2009, 08:43 AM
i don't like these marvel wynne haters because i want to see if preki will use him correctly, ie...time for him to play the right wing where he can excel!!


The problem is that Wynne lacks the soccer IQ to play as a winger. Actually he lacks the soccer IQ to play any where on the pitch. IF you could trade him intsead of Frei then I would be all for it.

As for Frei yes he is a good keeper, but going to Europe at this point of his career IMO is not going to happen. He needs more seasoning. He has to learn how to command the box better and that takes time. Maybe in 3-4 years I can see him leaving but let's not get ahead of oursleves thinking that teams in Europe are breaking down the door to sign him right now

drewski
11-27-2009, 10:01 AM
I'd like to keep frei but the logic to trade him is there for. he won't stay in NA if he keeps playin like he has. trading him could yield a longer term prospect who;d stay with the team for a long time

Gixmo
11-27-2009, 11:01 AM
As mentioned Frei will go to Europe, but not this year, not next and maybe no the year after. He still has some confidence issues in the box to round out his skill set but when done, He'll be out of here.

I can't see him going, regardless of Perk or John Fiutowski. You can utilize Fiutowski as a backup for year 1, and then move him into the starter role when Frei goes.. but not vice versa.

Trade Guevara, sell Guevara, buy CB.. Problem Solved (Sans putting the ball into the net..)

Wooster_TFC
11-27-2009, 11:35 AM
I'm betting that Frei is on a two year contract, and will be going to Europe at the end of next year due to his Swiss nationality. He could make it on some lower division teams, which is what MLS players have been doing if you look at the recent trend (Rolfe, Freeman as two examples in the last two years).

Carts
11-27-2009, 11:38 AM
Anyone and everyone, in any league, is "tradable" for the right price...

Carts...

TFCRegina
11-27-2009, 11:50 AM
Anyone and everyone, in any league, is "tradable" for the right price...

Carts...

Agreed, which is why I'm in favour of dumping Frei for something rather than losing him on a free.

Frei is a great keeper, but Edwards is pretty damn good. However, we've seen over the past 3 seasons that having a keeper that is capable is no guarantee of keeping the ball out of the back of the net. We could go with Howard from the EPL and still let in as many goals as we do because our defenders just aren't there.

Yes, Nana is quality, but Brennan and Wynne are not. Gomez is developing but isn't at the level needed yet for a game in, game out starter. He'll probably develop into that over the course of the next season, but how many mistakes will cost us essential points over the first half of the season or so?

Frei can be used to fill that gap and we can use a capable keeper in Edwards to backstop the net. Our marginal benefit gained from Frei being good with a crap defense is minimal...

Globetrotter
11-27-2009, 12:06 PM
Not sure why people enjoy Edwards so much. He has more confidence and is more vocal on arials, however his shot stopping is not even close to Frei, and his reflexes aren't as quick either. When it comes to making saves when needed, he is no better than Sutton. Anyone remember in 08 when Edwards ran the ball out of the 18 yard box with the ball in his hands!!! Carded and free kick in prime location. What was he thinking?

Im glad NY scored 5 against him. Front 10 players aside, you have to look at what NY brings. TFC did not need someone that could be vocal and confident. They were playing NY. JUAN PABLO. You need a guy that can stop the ball. A guy that is primo on break aways, one on one situations. That's what NY will bring, and that's what Frei is one of the best in the league at doing. Sutton and Edwards don't stop those one on ones. Frei does. TFC back line need a guy like Frei for all of their screw ups. Frei saved them all season on break away situations... other keepers watch the ball roll into the net.

Put it this way (for trophymanager players), using increments of 5's and rounded up, you can look at it this way: the most important aspects to a GK are as follows, and this is how I'd rank the two....

Frei
Handling 20
One on One 20
Reflexes 20
Arial 10
Communication 10

Edwards
Handling 15
One on One 5 (10 at most)
Reflexes 15
Arial 15
Communication 15

Take your pick. I'd take a guy that can stop people (@Seattle anyone?) any day.

spark
11-27-2009, 12:07 PM
TFC really missed their window where they could have gotten a lot for Wynne. As much as I like Frei, I would not be opposed to getting maximum value for a player, like many speculate, who will be "gone in 5 yrs".

But the truth is I'm fine with any move, as long as it's part of a MASTER PLAN, which we've seen very little of for three years.

rocker
11-27-2009, 12:13 PM
Not sure why people enjoy Edwards so much. He has more confidence and is more vocal on arials, however his shot stopping is not even close to Frei, and his reflexes aren't as quick either. When it comes to making saves when needed, he is no better than Sutton. Anyone remember in 08 when Edwards ran the ball out of the 18 yard box with the ball in his hands!!! Carded and free kick in prime location. What was he thinking?

Im glad NY scored 5 against him. Front 10 players aside, you have to look at what NY brings. TFC did not need someone that could be vocal and confident. They were playing NY. JUAN PABLO. You need a guy that can stop the ball. A guy that is primo on break aways, one on one situations. That's what NY will bring, and that's what Frei is one of the best in the league at doing. Sutton and Edwards don't stop those one on ones. Frei does. TFC back line need a guy like Frei for all of their screw ups. Frei saved them all season on break away situations... other keepers watch the ball roll into the net.

Put it this way (for trophymanager players), using increments of 5's and rounded up, you can look at it this way: the most important aspects to a GK are as follows, and this is how I'd rank the two....

Frei
Handling 20
One on One 20
Reflexes 20
Arial 10
Communication 10

Edwards
Handling 15
One on One 5 (10 at most)
Reflexes 15
Arial 15
Communication 15

Take your pick. I'd take a guy that can stop people (@Seattle anyone?) any day.

i agree. BUT -- do you need a Frei to compete in this league? Or could you get something great for Frei, to shore up the defense, and do fine with Edwards?

I mean, Nick Rimando led RSL to the cup, and he's never been rumoured to leave for Europe. Pat Onstad never succeeded in Europe (played in canadian leagues for years) yet he led his Houston team to the cup.

Donovan Ricketts played for Bradford City for a few years, and he's hot shit in MLS. Fatso Thornton at Chivas never had Euro ambitions and he's done well for MLS teams.

So what I'm saying is, just because Edwards is not as good as Frei doesn't mean he isn't good enough to be starting GK on a good MLS team. The standard isn't as high.

TFCRegina
11-27-2009, 12:15 PM
Not sure why people enjoy Edwards so much. He has more confidence and is more vocal on arials, however his shot stopping is not even close to Frei, and his reflexes aren't as quick either. When it comes to making saves when needed, he is no better than Sutton. Anyone remember in 08 when Edwards ran the ball out of the 18 yard box with the ball in his hands!!! Carded and free kick in prime location. What was he thinking?

Im glad NY scored 5 against him. Front 10 players aside, you have to look at what NY brings. TFC did not need someone that could be vocal and confident. They were playing NY. JUAN PABLO. You need a guy that can stop the ball. A guy that is primo on break aways, one on one situations. That's what NY will bring, and that's what Frei is one of the best in the league at doing. Sutton and Edwards don't stop those one on ones. Frei does. TFC back line need a guy like Frei for all of their screw ups. Frei saved them all season on break away situations... other keepers watch the ball roll into the net.

Put it this way (for trophymanager players), using increments of 5's and rounded up, you can look at it this way: the most important aspects to a GK are as follows, and this is how I'd rank the two....

Frei
Handling 20
One on One 20
Reflexes 20
Arial 10
Communication 10

Edwards
Handling 15
One on One 5 (10 at most)
Reflexes 15
Arial 15
Communication 15

Take your pick. I'd take a guy that can stop people (@Seattle anyone?) any day.

Ok Football manager, but the fact of the matter is, Frei can be great at all those things, but if our D is terrible he can't stop shit.

If our D was quality, the number of situations where Edwards would be called upon to save the team would be minimized, meaning Frei's added value to a team with solid D is minimal, because what you have said he is best for is making miracle saves...if the D is good, the need for miracle saves falls significantly.

So we trade Frei for better defenders and have a good D with a decent Keeper that keeps more balls out of the back of the net than a shite D with a great keeper.

TFCRegina
11-27-2009, 12:17 PM
i agree. BUT -- do you need a Frei to compete in this league? Or could you get something great for Frei, to shore up the defense, and do fine with Edwards?

I mean, Nick Rimando led RSL to the cup, and he's never been rumoured to leave for Europe. Pat Onstad never succeeded in Europe (played in canadian leagues for years) yet he led his Houston team to the cup.

Donovan Ricketts played for Bradford City for a few years, and he's hot shit in MLS. Fatso Thornton at Chivas never had Euro ambitions and he's done well for MLS teams.

So what I'm saying is, just because Edwards is not as good as Frei doesn't mean he isn't good enough to be starting GK on a good MLS team. The standard isn't as high.

Exactly what I am trying to get at.

Globetrotter
11-27-2009, 12:19 PM
^very true, he doesn't have to be as good as Frei, however what made Frei better (in my mind) than anyone we've seen, is just how many times he was left alone having to stop a shot, and he'd always throw out his leg or get some type of piece. If you can replace that (which Edwards can't do, and Sutton absolutely could not do), then Frei leaving would be easier to deal with. Edwards in net = more goals allowed.

Frei was spectacular at making saves. There were a lot of set pieces were there were about 35 players in the box where he would mismanage things though.

Globetrotter
11-27-2009, 12:22 PM
Ok Football manager, but the fact of the matter is, Frei can be great at all those things, but if our D is terrible he can't stop shit.

If our D was quality, the number of situations where Edwards would be called upon to save the team would be minimized, meaning Frei's added value to a team with solid D is minimal, because what you have said he is best for is making miracle saves...if the D is good, the need for miracle saves falls significantly.

So we trade Frei for better defenders and have a good D with a decent Keeper that keeps more balls out of the back of the net than a shite D with a great keeper.

Well, you can upgrade a back line and hope things are better, but overall team defense as a collective unit could still be terrible. I know there are plenty of arguments for and against Frei and Edwards, but "miracle saves" are what separate the good and average...and it's those miracle saves that get you noticed. If you are happy to settle with Edwards, then that's fine, but I think you'd see a lot of people complaining about him next year if he is the starter.

TFCRegina
11-27-2009, 12:25 PM
Well, you can upgrade a back line and hope things are better, but overall team defense as a collective unit could still be terrible. I know there are plenty of arguments for and against Frei and Edwards, but "miracle saves" are what separate the good and average...and it's those miracle saves that get you noticed. If you are happy to settle with Edwards, then that's fine, but I think you'd see a lot of people complaining about him next year if he is the starter.

People will complain worse if the defense hasn't improved. This isn't the EPL, we can't keep all the best players, even though we're a big market team. The cap and player restrictions are prohibitive. You have to go for win maximization, even if it means being weaker in a position you are eminently strong in. Sacrifices have to be made. Being distinctly average everywhere is better than being good in the Midfield and Net but terrible up front and on the back line.

prizby
11-27-2009, 12:36 PM
Wynne would be a nightmare on the wing...he can't cross the ball, he struggles to run with the ball at his feet and he can't break down a defender.

he is faster than just about anyone, his crosses are actually half decent and with a better commitment to making him into a winger, his potential can be realized!

CretanBull
11-27-2009, 12:39 PM
The arguement is pointless because the rumours aren't suggesting that TFC plan to trade Frei with the intention of starting Edwards.

Fort York Redcoat
11-27-2009, 12:39 PM
^^Dude. I agree Wynne has speed and was exciting as hell to watch bombing up the wing but his crosses were atrocious consistently. That's why he's not there any more. much

CretanBull
11-27-2009, 12:47 PM
he is faster than just about anyone, his crosses are actually half decent and with a better commitment to making him into a winger, his potential can be realized!

I'm not sure if a level of commitment exists that would be needed to make him look comfortable with the ball at his feet. Watching him run with the ball or do any sort of dribbling (I'd say essential skills for a winger!) is painfull. I think his role in this league is to use his speed to recover from getting caught out of position (which happens a lot) and to make over-lapping runs with RM, where (hopefully) the RM finishes the play. I'd LOVE to seem him emerge as a real player, but right now I don't see it.

jloome
11-27-2009, 12:55 PM
If Frei is in play to Philly in exchange for #1 so be it.

Hopefully Preki adopts a Long Term Player Development Program and stability via access to MLSE's resources. Lord knows Moe hasn't, however both have a reputation for churning players.

Until he rejected Gen A last year, Opara was more coveted than Gonzalaz.
What swayed Opara's decision last year was this yr's U20 WC. Too bad he had a poor showing and interest from Europe has dropped off. Opara's decision on Gen A this year will come once Wake's season is complete.

In many MLS circles, Opara is back at the top, the most prized jewel.
Gen A has only 8-10 spots, 2 are allegedly gone (Duka & Gil).
New York has the 2nd spot and will probably take Duka, who didn't qualify as a Red Bull Academy development player (another one of those strange rule interpretations by MLS). If Opara does sign with Gen A, he'll be gone with #1, most certainly by SJ if he's available at 3.

Gen A is stocked as NCAA field narrows. This is also the final assessment in putting the combine list together.
Track NCAA Div I here:
http://www.ncaa.com/brackets/2009/ncaa_bracket_DI_soccer_men.html

BTW, Wake takes on Duke on Sunday, 3rd Round (Another ACC clash - expect a full house of MLS scouts & coaches).

Track Gen A here: http://www.3rddegree.net/ga-tracking/

The potential quarter final match-up between Wake & UCLA must have TFC salivating.

If TFC can't get to Opara, but do acquire a high to middle 1st round pick (trading Guevara), it could be Ofori Sarkodie, a senior D from Indiana. Athletic, powerful and quick. Very good tactical knowledge, makes good decisions early. Knows how to read a game. He shouldn't take long adapting to Preki's way of playing or the transition to MLS. Ofori should not be confused with younger brother Kofi (Akron Zips), who is also a Gen A target. Kofi won't go Gen A - parents very strict in that children get educated. Ofori has been a Gen A target for 3 years.

TFC picks 24th (2nd round (middle)) & 53rd (4th round(early)); nothing in the 1st or the 3rd rounds. 16 teams, 4 rounds, no supplemantary draft.
Philadelphia Union select 1st in each round as they are the expansion team. Draft is in Philly, during the annual NSCAA Convention. In an earlier version of the "on-line" schedule, I saw the draft on Tuesday Jan 12; now its not even listed.

Interesting. Saving GA status for Gil seems somewhat laughable, unless he's a loan back. He's going to sign at one of the big four (or six, or whatever it is these days) in Europe, so there's no way we're seeing him in MLS any time soon.

What have you heard about the Swedish kid from St. Johns, who used to captain the IFK Goteborg youth team. Can't remember his name, but I remember him being a big kid.

Yohan
11-27-2009, 09:34 PM
I agree we don't have a commanding CB that eats MLS forwards for breakfast, but in this league there is always ging to be at least one area where you are not super strong, and I think we need a striker and some wide players more than we need another CB, where we have Nana, Serioux and Gomez. CB can be improved for sure, but not as much as wings (where we basically have no-one) and striker (where we have a young potential, an unskilled work horse and a lump).
There are very few MLS commanding CBs, hence why they are a premium in this league. Most teams seems to make due with what they've got, and hoping that they have a very good manager who can teach good defensive setup.

I like Nana at CB, and if TFC picks up a quality CB (Sol Campbell? wishful thinking lol), Serioux and Gomez as back up, CB position would be solid by MLS standards. of course, that assumes we get a better defensive RB than Wynne.


Anyone else think we need an experienced CB to play along side NA and not a rookie?
yep. peopl keep tooting Omar Gonzalez and how good of a year he's had, but without veteran CB like Berhalter and Tony Sanneh teaching him the tricks, Gonzalez's progress deffo would have been slower


What about Hainault? Never hurts to have another Canadian considering Vancouver is coming next year. I want Mo to keep Gerba so that Vancouver can take him.
I don't know why his name keeps popping up from wishful thinkers. He is a good MLS defender but has a lot of versatility. I think Houston would want a lot to part with Hainault. Hence why he was protected, and other quality veteran defenders like Mulrooney and Robinson weren't.


Anyone and everyone, in any league, is "tradable" for the right price...

Carts...
Pretty much. Anyone short of DP can be traded at any given moment, if the price is right. Then again, even DP status isn't guaranteed that you're going to stay with the team. Philly could have picked up Emilio or Landin at expansion draft...

edit: the thing about MLS is that you're never going to find great players in every position. these players play in top leagues in Europe. so in MLS, you're always going to 'make due' with players who have some sort of flaw. normally it'll be a player who has good work ethic, but aren't good enough technically. or have good technical skills but have a mental problem. too old or too inexperienced. someone who's career derailed for some reason.
basically what i'm trying to say is to lower your expectations to that of MLS level...

fun league to watch, a bunch of misfits running around for the ball :p

Yohan
11-28-2009, 02:26 AM
re: GKs

one thing MLS has plenty is a lot of decent GKs for cheap. a lot of back ups did have a decent showing, like Edwards, Knighton, Burse, Saunders, Wicks (who eventually got the #1 shirt)

I personally rate Frei slightly below top GKs this year (Keller, Thornton, Ricketts) and if Mo can trade Frei for high 1st rd plus allocation, I'm ok with that

Sullivan
11-28-2009, 05:22 PM
Interesting. Saving GA status for Gil seems somewhat laughable, unless he's a loan back. He's going to sign at one of the big four (or six, or whatever it is these days) in Europe, so there's no way we're seeing him in MLS any time soon.

What have you heard about the Swedish kid from St. Johns, who used to captain the IFK Goteborg youth team. Can't remember his name, but I remember him being a big kid.

Gil = I hear he's considering MLS, short term, till he's 18.

Swedish kid = Joel Gustafson.

I've seen him play once. Big solid kid. Played CB. Won everything in the air and didn't lose a single tackle. His medium range passes, say 20yd+ were well off the mark during this one game though. He never ventured forward. And he didn't mind the long ball. And then perhaps it was just his turn for an off day. Also, the Big East is a Have/HaveNot division with regard to soccer skills, team to team.

What have I heard?
Lots of positives. He'll be at the combine. He'll be drafted. He's having a stellar season. Strong in the air. Will compare MLS offers against offers from "home".

Problem is, he's got masur-i-tis. St John's players take longer in the transition curve from NCAA to MLS. Coach Masur is a recruiter not a teacher; he doesn't really develop or prepare players for MLS. Its more of a knock against the coach than the player. What I'm saying is this, if I have two players equal in all aspects, and one is coached by Masur and the other is coached by say Cirovski at Maryland, I take the Cirovski player every time.

Masur is a Ray Reid type coach (U of Conn). TFC supporters saw Reid's stamp all over Julius James - a monster in the NCAA, a minnow in the MLS.

ua-kozak_TFC
11-28-2009, 07:57 PM
I think trading Frei to get an other golie... OR ANYONE for that matter is the dumbest move EVER...

Its like spending all the money (lets say 10 million for comparion sake) from the jack pot you just won on buying tickets for the next jackpot which is 20 million dollars....

Not sure if you get the analogy. But yea... just dumb how do you know that the new golie can step up at more competitive level? How do you know that he will be able to resist the pressure of thousands of supporters... Finally how do you know that he;s skillful enough for a professional level... some people shine at college level yet fail to translate this at the professional level..

JUST DUMB...

ua-kozak_TFC
11-28-2009, 08:01 PM
re: GKs

one thing MLS has plenty is a lot of decent GKs for cheap. a lot of back ups did have a decent showing, like Edwards, Knighton, Burse, Saunders, Wicks (who eventually got the #1 shirt)

I personally rate Frei slightly below top GKs this year (Keller, Thornton, Ricketts) and if Mo can trade Frei for high 1st rd plus allocation, I'm ok with that
True... but you can;t forget that this is the guy's rookie year... You can;t just expect him to have the years of experience keller has in his first professional year... Also Gks always get better with age...

I think this is too risky... you are trading someone who is prooven to be a great tallent... for a probability... which you don;t know WHEN and IF it will pay off...

druid
11-29-2009, 10:07 AM
Mo can impress me in this years draft by staying out of it.

Our goal keeping situation is fine. We need a 10+ goals per season striker and an experienced CB to steady our defense. The draft is going to get us neither of these things.

Showing restraint in the draft and moving on a midfielder or two for those critical areas would impress me.

Yohan
11-29-2009, 10:36 AM
True... but you can;t forget that this is the guy's rookie year... You can;t just expect him to have the years of experience keller has in his first professional year... Also Gks always get better with age...
true. but if Frei gets little bit more better, I'd think Euro teams would come calling.


I think this is too risky... you are trading someone who is prooven to be a great tallent... for a probability... which you don;t know WHEN and IF it will pay off...
doesn't have to be for a 1st round pick. If someone like Bobby Boswell, Geoff Cameron or Chad Marshall got offered for Frei, I'd take this trade in an instant.

In MLS, you don't really need the best GKs... just ones that are good enough. But you do need a pair of good CBs


Mo can impress me in this years draft by staying out of it.

Our goal keeping situation is fine. We need a 10+ goals per season striker and an experienced CB to steady our defense. The draft is going to get us neither of these things.

Showing restraint in the draft and moving on a midfielder or two for those critical areas would impress me.
this staying out of draft may have merit. is this year's pool so deep last last seasons that it's worth it to try to trade for picks?

Blizzard
11-29-2009, 04:17 PM
true. but if Frei gets little bit more better, I'd think Euro teams would come calling.


Hey, they may be calling already. If they can buy a young keeper with a huge upside before he is fully developed, they may feel they can get a bargain ... as if Mo would let them get a bargain. :)

That said, if a European club can get a young keeper they can mold into the type of keeper they desire, why not take a run at a Frei now before his price goes up even more.

I'm not saying we'd get Edu money for Frei now but if there is a decent offer, I could see TFC taking it if means being able to add another $500k onto next year's salary allocations.

Sullivan
11-29-2009, 11:09 PM
For those who might be interested...

NCAA Div 1 Final 8 - Dec 4,5 & 6th
Akron v Tulsa
UNC vs Drake
Wake v UCLA
UVa v Maryland

UNC, Wake, UVa & Maryland all ACC teams.
Akron is undefeated & #1 (Teal Bunbury).
Maryland are defending champs.

ESPN2/360.com pick up the next round of games on the 11th (5 & 7:30), plus the final. Semi's and final are back in Cary, North Carolina.

I'll guess close to half of the selected picks from the 1st round come from
these 8 teams.

NCAA Div 1
http://www.ncaa.com/brackets/2009/ncaa_bracket_DI_soccer_men.html

Also,
Sometime this week, the MAC's Hermann Award short list, say around 12 players. This watch list was issued way back....
http://www.nscaa.com/downloads/HermannTrophy_PlayersofYear.pdf

Most of the seniors are on the combine list, draft eligible.

VPjr
11-30-2009, 01:49 AM
I always enjoy Sullivan's insight on NCAA comings and goings. Thanks for the contribution

Oldtimer
11-30-2009, 08:59 AM
Mo can impress me in this years draft by staying out of it.

Our goal keeping situation is fine. We need a 10+ goals per season striker and an experienced CB to steady our defense. The draft is going to get us neither of these things.

Showing restraint in the draft and moving on a midfielder or two for those critical areas would impress me.

Mo is a great drafter. He did score 100% on the last draft. There is a real question as to whether he can improve on the current squad through the draft. If he can, it could be a good move, but sometimes trading for a more mature talent can pay off better. Sometimes you get the feeling that Mo likes tinkering with the squad for tinkering's sake.

Shway
11-30-2009, 01:48 PM
For those who might be interested...

NCAA Div 1 Final 8 - Dec 4,5 & 6th
UNC vs Drake
UVa v Maryland

I'll guess close to half of the selected picks from the 1st round come from
these 8 teams.

Most of the seniors are on the combine list, draft eligible.

FOR THOSE WHO MIGHT BE INTERESTED

Toronto FC Academy player, and former captian Daniel Tannous, is in the quarter finals, playing for University of Carolina, he is a regular starter for the tar heels, and is in his sophmore year.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-30-2009, 08:36 PM
do we have dibs on him being ex TFC?

ua-kozak_TFC
11-30-2009, 08:56 PM
true. but if Frei gets little bit more better, I'd think Euro teams would come calling.

doesn't have to be for a 1st round pick. If someone like Bobby Boswell, Geoff Cameron or Chad Marshall got offered for Frei, I'd take this trade in an instant.

In MLS, you don't really need the best GKs... just ones that are good enough. But you do need a pair of good CBs


this staying out of draft may have merit. is this year's pool so deep last last seasons that it's worth it to try to trade for picks?
And the problem with that is?? we just get a good buck and perhaps update a stadium. Also... wynne has been leaving for europe.. since the first year he came here... its going for 4th year and i don;t see him laeving anywhere anytime soon...

ua-kozak_TFC
11-30-2009, 08:58 PM
]Mo is a great drafter. He did score 100%[/B] on the last draft. There is a real question as to whether he can improve on the current squad through the draft. If he can, it could be a good move, but sometimes trading for a more mature talent can pay off better. Sometimes you get the feeling that Mo likes tinkering with the squad for tinkering's sake.
what about the year before...???
somehow people keep forgetting about phelan and julius james.. picks 3 and 6 if recall correctly...

Redpunkfiddle
11-30-2009, 09:08 PM
what about the year before...???
somehow people keep forgetting about phelan and julius james.. picks 3 and 6 if recall correctly...

True. But that was a thin draft at best. Chance Myers anyone?

ensco
11-30-2009, 09:11 PM
what about the year before...???
somehow people keep forgetting about phelan and julius james.. picks 3 and 6 if recall correctly...

ummm, try 9 and 10, which are crap shoot spots in any draft.

Having said that, I think people are overdoing it on the "Mo is a genius drafter" thing. Edu and Wynne were not decisions - they were consensus overall number ones. I'm not sure Cronin and OBW were home runs - he left Gonzalez on the board when he took Cronin, and he left Wallace and Pontius out there when he picked OBW, both of whom were highly touted, ranked ahead of OBW on most draft boards, and could be better players.

Which leaves Altidore and Frei. Let's face it, both of them fell into his lap. But he did make the picks. You have to give credit for that. But let's not overdo it.

ua-kozak_TFC
12-01-2009, 01:56 PM
ummm, try 9 and 10, which are crap shoot spots in any draft.

Having said that, I think people are overdoing it on the "Mo is a genius drafter" thing. Edu and Wynne were not decisions - they were consensus overall number ones. I'm not sure Cronin and OBW were home runs - he left Gonzalez on the board when he took Cronin, and he left Wallace and Pontius out there when he picked OBW, both of whom were highly touted, ranked ahead of OBW on most draft boards, and could be better players.

Which leaves Altidore and Frei. Let's face it, both of them fell into his lap. But he did make the picks. You have to give credit for that. But let's not overdo it.
GREAT POINT!!! 1+++++

The latter... an even better point... at that point of the draft... you would have to be an IDIOT not to take them unless you have too many good players in that position...

ag futbol
12-01-2009, 04:00 PM
ummm, try 9 and 10, which are crap shoot spots in any draft.

Having said that, I think people are overdoing it on the "Mo is a genius drafter" thing. Edu and Wynne were not decisions - they were consensus overall number ones. I'm not sure Cronin and OBW were home runs - he left Gonzalez on the board when he took Cronin, and he left Wallace and Pontius out there when he picked OBW, both of whom were highly touted, ranked ahead of OBW on most draft boards, and could be better players.

Which leaves Altidore and Frei. Let's face it, both of them fell into his lap. But he did make the picks. You have to give credit for that. But let's not overdo it.
Yeah that's a fair take.

Also of note: he traded up to #1 to take Wynn, Chivas took the original pick he had, got Sasha Klesjian and something in return. It doesn't sound so amazing when you put it that way.

Mo's done some draft stuff worth commending (and he's better than most GM's at it) but it's not a flawless record by any means. I'd still consider the draft an ever increasingly smaller part of the job as MLS isn't exactly getting any better at attracting NCAA talent and the number of teams keeps increasing.

deacon
12-01-2009, 06:39 PM
Still think TFC's 2009 draft was best in league.Frie was great,Cronin solid playing out of position pretty much all year, and OB coming off major surgery. As with most sports evaluating a draft class is best done 2-3 years out. My bet is these 3 TFC players will be team leaders going forward, and MLS allstars within 3 years.
Wait and see!

Beach_Red
12-01-2009, 08:33 PM
I'd still consider the draft an ever increasingly smaller part of the job as MLS isn't exactly getting any better at attracting NCAA talent and the number of teams keeps increasing.




This is one of the main reasons the salary cap has to be increased.

zooko62000
12-02-2009, 05:33 PM
The only way we would give up Frei is for 3 high draft picks and a skilled CB, but no one will give us that. Frei is to valuable to give up for anything else. So MO, don't fuck this one up, keep Frei.

Marco2K
12-02-2009, 06:30 PM
If we could get a guy like Landon Donaven for Frei then that would be sweet. A PURE SCORER or perhaps a great CB. Edwards is capable!!

CretanBull
12-02-2009, 06:35 PM
^It would be sweet, but it would also be impossible :(

zooko62000
12-02-2009, 09:16 PM
Why would you want Donovan, in my opinion he would ruin TFC because we would be able to support his salary with the other key players we have and would have to build around Donovan, De Rosario, and De Guzman.

If that happenned another 3 years without making the playoffs

CretanBull
12-02-2009, 10:03 PM
To be fair, he said someone "like Donovan" which isn't necessarily Donovan. Salary wise, we could do it relatively easy - although we'd have to deal for a second DP slot. If we got rid of Nick Garcia ($190k) and Guevara ($300k). The DP Donovan-like player would have $335 of his salary count against our cap and the remaining $155 would be used to replace Garcia.

Yohan
12-03-2009, 01:02 PM
The only way we would give up Frei is for 3 high draft picks and a skilled CB, but no one will give us that. Frei is to valuable to give up for anything else. So MO, don't fuck this one up, keep Frei.
don't overrate Frei.

Yanks have tendency to produce a lot of good GKs in MLS

rocker
12-03-2009, 01:04 PM
is donovan's contract technically a DP contract? cuz i thought it was signed before the DP rule, so he wouldn't count as a DP. LA doesn't have 2 DP slots I think.... Becks takes up the 1 they own.

jloome
12-03-2009, 01:09 PM
is donovan's contract technically a DP contract? cuz i thought it was signed before the DP rule, so he wouldn't count as a DP. LA doesn't have 2 DP slots I think.... Becks takes up the 1 they own.

He's a grand-fathered DP under the original rules, which means the slot isn't transferrable.