PDA

View Full Version : Protecting Barrett will pay off



spark
11-24-2009, 11:26 AM
A Bold Prediction (http://www.rednationonline.ca/A_Bold_Prediction_nov_24_09_column.shtml)

Many have questioned why he was kept on the protected list. Despite his 'finishing', the upside looks better and with a few tweaks, possibly only in confidence (Cunningham?), we will be thankful for not letting him go.

+ Has all the tools, just needs to sharpen a few
+ Will be coached by not just a former, but one of the best all-time MLS strikers
+ Is entering the prime years for a striker

Roogsy
11-24-2009, 11:29 AM
Hmmm....this all sounds familiar. :p

Oldtimer
11-24-2009, 11:33 AM
Are you willing to wear a dress if he doesn't bag 10 goals next year?:D

Auzzy
11-24-2009, 11:38 AM
Not sure if it will pay off at TFC. There's a pretty good chance though that Chad will bag a bunch if he goes somewhere else....

spark
11-24-2009, 11:40 AM
Are you willing to wear a dress if he doesn't bag 10 goals next year?:D

Haha ask Jeremy!!

I don't think any dress will top Duane's. We'd have to raise the ante for 2010.

jloome
11-24-2009, 01:35 PM
No cross dressing gents, sorry.

The mea culpa column will be appropriately self-depricating, however.

I just see something in the kid. I've followed soccer for over 30 years and Barrett has some serious tools, they're just tools people don't pay much attention to, like good lateral movement, movement off the defensive zones, getting behind the high defender, stuff like that.

You can't teach that stuff. You CAN teach a headstrong adrenaline junkie to stop acting like his right foot is the sledgehammer of god when all he needs is to poke the damn thing into the corner.

trane
11-24-2009, 02:04 PM
^ He is not without tools. As I said many times I like him, I just do not like him as a pure CF. The issue is when can you give up on a player in the MLS? This is a question not just for him but more particullarly for Wynne. I keep on thinking they can learn, but at some point time will be up.

Beach_Red
11-24-2009, 02:10 PM
Do you remember when Carver was coach after a game where Barrett missed a few he said at the next practise they were going to recreate all the chances so Barrett could finish them, but the practise was only two hours so they couldn't get to them all.

Now, that's a pretty funny line and in the right circumstances it could be used effectively to lighten the tension. And maybe it was the right thing to say but things didn't work out for some other reason, but it will be interesting to see what happens with Barrett and a coach who's been there himself and scored goals.

trane
11-24-2009, 02:18 PM
^ Finishing has a large mental component on it. It seems to require ( I am talking as a CB, so take it with a grain of salt) the quick decision coupled with skill, to do just the right thing in that split second you have to finish. Sometimes it is just touching the ball over the line, sometimes it is a quick header, sometimes it is a simple placed ball to the corner. Barret simply seems to make the wrong decision more often then not when he finds himslef in a scoring opportunity. I would think he can learn it. But I am not sure that he will be able too.

Jeff s
11-24-2009, 02:33 PM
Wow People actually still have hope on Barrett? Really?

24 years old, never scored over 10 goals in one season despite being a striker, and there's still people out there who still thinks he'll become a 15 plus goal scorer just like that.:facepalm:

Stop being in Denial seriously.

Dave67
11-24-2009, 02:38 PM
Wow People actually still have hope on Barrett? Really?

24 years old, never scored over 10 goals in one season despite being a striker, and there's still people out there who still thinks he'll become a 15 plus goal scorer just like that.:facepalm:

Stop being in Denial seriously.

Stranger things have happened
http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20091025&content_id=7546126&vkey=pr_mls&fext=.jsp

jloome
11-24-2009, 02:41 PM
Wow People actually still have hope on Barrett? Really?

24 years old, never scored over 10 goals in one season despite being a striker, and there's still people out there who still thinks he'll become a 15 plus goal scorer just like that.:facepalm:

Stop being in Denial seriously.

You're seriously overexaggerating. I said he had the potential to score 15. I didn't say he'd score 15 "just like that".

BuSaPuNk
11-24-2009, 03:03 PM
He has the tools to be a good striker yes. But I think it's more than just a lack of confindence. He had his long spell and then scored and then went back under the radar. I would have thought after scoring the winner in MTL he would have went on a tear but he just disappeared again.

There is something wrong with him just can't put my finger on it.

Oldtimer
11-24-2009, 03:06 PM
I'm pretty sure its a mental issue.

He has the skills and the effort.

ManUtd4ever
11-24-2009, 03:18 PM
He has scored more than his share of goals for me on FIFA 10...But seriously, I also feel that he can become a consistent 10-15 goal scorer with the right tutelage, aka Preki...

BuSaPuNk
11-24-2009, 03:23 PM
I'm pretty sure its a mental issue.

He has the skills and the effort.

We all I think can agree that we love the hussle of him and determination but mabey that is the reason why he just can't seem to bag alot of goals.

Like in hockey he needs to go back to the basics. Get those dirty cleanup goals and pound in deflections. Mabey even always shoot on the first touch. Seems that a few times this year he moved to get a better avenue to shoot and then his shot let him down. Taking the shot on the first touch might just help him.

jloome
11-24-2009, 03:36 PM
We all I think can agree that we love the hussle of him and determination but mabey that is the reason why he just can't seem to bag alot of goals.

Like in hockey he needs to go back to the basics. Get those dirty cleanup goals and pound in deflections. Mabey even always shoot on the first touch. Seems that a few times this year he moved to get a better avenue to shoot and then his shot let him down. Taking the shot on the first touch might just help him.

I see what you're saying and it might be the right solution for scoring. But it's not needed for getting shots... he took the second most shots on the team this season. (DeRo's strike rate wasn't that much better, by the way, at 11 goals on 80 shots versus Barrett's 5 goals on 55 shots.)

BuSaPuNk
11-24-2009, 03:46 PM
DeRo scores on every 7.2 shots on net.
Barrett scores on every 11 shots on net.

Barrett would need to shoot 165 times a season to score 15 goals!!

redtfcred
11-24-2009, 03:48 PM
if TFC trade him he wins golden boot next year !!

jloome
11-24-2009, 04:09 PM
DeRo scores on every 7.2 shots on net.
Barrett scores on every 11 shots on net.

Barrett would need to shoot 165 times a season to score 15 goals!!

As I said, DeRo isn't much better, as 7.2 shots per goal is also a terrible rate. By top euro standards you're looking for 1-in-4 shots or better. One of the knocks on Andy Cole when he was at Man Utd in a good partnership with Dwight Yorke was that his strike rate was only 1 goal for every 4.25 shots.

So you can imagine what they'd think of Dwayne's return, and Barrett wouldn't even merit a look.

But I think OldTimer's right, barrett just needs the right guy to get him past his block, because anyone who misses the net more than he shoots is just hitting the ball too damn hard.

DOMIN8R
11-24-2009, 04:14 PM
I'm pretty sure its a mental issue.

He has the skills and the effort.

I absolutely agree. Composure is necessary to finish chances. Composure comes with maturity and confidence. Last season Chad had neither.

I often thought that he might be a good candidate to receive services from a top notch sports psychologist.

Just another point to add - not to single out Chad here. Our entire strike force, since inception, has been plagued by the same lack of mental steadiness under stress. At some point, someone has to ask the question "why do we have this pattern - on this team?" In science, a trend is often defined as 4 points on curve moving in the same general direction. How many strikers have we had, in succession, that could not finish 80% or more of their chances?

Could it be coincidence?

EENIE MAN
11-24-2009, 04:18 PM
does TFC have an in house shrink?

jloome
11-24-2009, 04:36 PM
I absolutely agree. Composure is necessary to finish chances. Composure comes with maturity and confidence. Last season Chad had neither.

I often thought that he might be a good candidate to receive services from a top notch sports psychologist.

Just another point to add - not to single out Chad here. Our entire strike force, since inception, has been plagued by the same lack of mental steadiness under stress. At some point, someone has to ask the question "why do we have this pattern - on this team?" In science, a trend is often defined as 4 points on curve moving in the same general direction. How many strikers have we had, in succession, that could not finish 80% or more of their chances?

Could it be coincidence?

Be interesting to see their "home versus away" breakdown, to see if it's related to the pressure of playing in front of such a boisterous crowd.

craigtfc
11-24-2009, 04:48 PM
I was surprised that shat barrett scored 5 goals this season good on him.

Globetrotter
11-24-2009, 04:59 PM
How many strikers have we had, in succession, that could not finish 80% or more of their chances?


80%!!!?!?!!?!

An earlier post suggested that 1/4 is a bit more reasonable. That's 25%. You want 80%??

I have a 75-83% strike rate in my water polo league, and I know how much pressure and how hard it is to maintain that!!

sulfur
11-24-2009, 05:17 PM
No... could not finish 80% of their chances. As in... could only finish 20%. At best.

DOMIN8R
11-24-2009, 05:18 PM
80%!!!?!?!!?!

An earlier post suggested that 1/4 is a bit more reasonable. That's 25%. You want 80%??

I have a 75-83% strike rate in my water polo league, and I know how much pressure and how hard it is to maintain that!!

Perhaps my post wasn't very clear.



How many strikers have we had, in succession, that could not finish 80% or more of their chances?


I interprete this to be that they finish (score) 20% or less of their chances - but it wasn't clear
Strike rate is a term open to interpretation, to the best of my knowledge
For instance, Michael Owen said today... '
You can twist stats whichever way you want. A goal every one-and-a-halfgames sounds good, whereas four goals in 16 games isn't quite soimpressive. But they're both accurate.
'All I'mconcerned about is playing and scoring as many times as I can. At Madrid it was a similar story - I didn't start every game but I ended up with the best goals-to-minutes ratio in the league.

http://www.football.co.uk/liverpool/owen-_my_strike-rate_is_still_up_there_with_the_best_and_stats_don t_tell_whole_story_rss271147.shtml

I don't have a hard definition. My intention was simply to draw attention to what appears as consistent problem with our forwards since 2007.

Sorry for the confusion.

Cambridge_Red
11-24-2009, 05:51 PM
I dislike Chad Barrett he's arrogant and useless. Arrogant based on the mind numbing time spent with him waiting in the airport and useless based on well.. last season :D So I ask this again why the fuck was he kept protected?

Hustle
11-24-2009, 06:09 PM
does TFC have an in house shrink?

I was wondering this myself earlier in the season. I don't think they do. I researched a bit, and it looks like the the Leafs have gone through a slew of them. Obviously its not really working.

My advice? Somebody take poor Chad out to the Brass Rail after the Pub Crawl and make him pay for everything....He'll feel better and you'll feel you got some payback for that inflated salary he is pulling in :D

CretanBull
11-24-2009, 06:25 PM
I have faith in Barrett if he's used properly. Having said that, I wouldn't have protected him. First off, I don't think that he would have been taken so we could have used the spot to protect someone else. If he was taken, then the cap space opened up by his departure could easily be used to replace him. So, nothing against him - I'm willing to give him a chance under new circumstances here - but I wouldn't have protected him.

gtaguy
11-24-2009, 06:41 PM
to protect him from expansion draft is a cover up for MO giving him a 4 year contract.. Mo doesn't want to look bad in signing the guy so quickly to a 4 year contract..

As for him as a player he has the goods and just needs to fine tune his finishing .
When i spoke to him last week at jackass in Miss i got from him that he's been humbled by the fact that he didn't meet the challenges set forth to him.. He feels that he needs to prove himself and better himself.
To just let him go after a flop of a year is crazy to me.. He still is a hard working player and over the past 3 seasons for one reason or another TFC have let go of some pretty good talent becuase they flopped under the management team at the time..
I say 1 more season and if he fails then we let him go unprotected when vancouver and portland come into the league..
We can't be to quick to chase away talent .. He's not a cunningham who showed no interest or a conner casey who just didn't want to play for the reds.. This kid has shown drive and desire the only thing fucking him up is his fancy to rush a play ... hes not yet entered his best time as a pro ..
Im all for chances and i think this kid deserves one... What role does he play on the team well that up to preki now.

craigtfc
11-24-2009, 07:35 PM
I thought chad barrett gets protected after every game at bmo in the parking lot from the fan.

Brooker
11-24-2009, 08:01 PM
I thought chad barrett gets protected after every game at bmo in the parking lot from the fan.

I think Chad Barrett could handle 90% of the people I see at BMO Field.... including myself. lol.

As long as he's on my team I'm not gonna shit on him, jeer him when he fucks up, or boo him during the starting roster announcements... like many have done on a regular basis this season.... because it will only fuck him up further.

I will never understand why fans boo their own players. They aren't going anywhere just because you boo them. The only thing you're doing is most likely insuring they will continue to play awful in front of you.

brad
11-24-2009, 08:01 PM
^ Finishing has a large mental component on it. It seems to require ( I am talking as a CB, so take it with a grain of salt) the quick decision coupled with skill, to do just the right thing in that split second you have to finish. Sometimes it is just touching the ball over the line, sometimes it is a quick header, sometimes it is a simple placed ball to the corner. Barret simply seems to make the wrong decision more often then not when he finds himslef in a scoring opportunity. I would think he can learn it. But I am not sure that he will be able too.

This is true, but it's even more complicated. Choosing what to do is a lot different when you have a split second, and when you have time to think. Believe it or not, it's actually harder of finish when you are through on the keeper and have a second or two than it is when you are going on pure instinct.

DOMIN8R
11-24-2009, 08:12 PM
I will never understand why fans boo their own players. They aren't going anywhere just because you boo them. The only thing you're doing is most likely insuring they will continue to play awful in front of you.

No question.

Beach_Red
11-24-2009, 08:14 PM
I will never understand why fans boo their own players. They aren't going anywhere just because you boo them. The only thing you're doing is most likely insuring they will continue to play awful in front of you.




In Toronto it does get them shipped out, though.

Brooker
11-24-2009, 09:28 PM
then why after all the booing and jeering this season was Chad Barrett was left protected?

Roogsy
11-24-2009, 09:30 PM
I will never understand why fans boo their own players. They aren't going anywhere just because you boo them. The only thing you're doing is most likely insuring they will continue to play awful in front of you.

I agree 100%. Nothing makes me angrier at games.

You know what? Boo the opposition you morons. Yeah, we get it. You don't think he's a good player. Well you know what? I think you're a shittier supporter for ragging on one of your own players. How about I ride you for an hour and see how you like it???

I was in 116 for the Real Madrid game and there was a douchebag near the front who was riding Barrett all game long. I yelled back at him to just put on a Real Madrid jersey and suck on Ronaldo's dick already if he was going to come to TFC's home stadium to rag on a TFC player.

DOMIN8R
11-24-2009, 09:42 PM
:smilielol5:

I couldn't agree more. Sometimes I fantasize about arming a small group of vigilante supporters to hunt and kill so called fans in the stands who shit on our players.

Anyone else?

Anyone?

OK. Maybe I need to dial back a little.

v00d00daddy
11-24-2009, 09:55 PM
Yeah...but how has all the positive reinforcement helped Barrett?

In my opinion, all the cheering or booing in the world will not help or hurt players in any way.

You can cheer for Chad Barrett all game, every game and it won't make him score more goals.

Conversely...you can boo him all game, every game and it won't make him score less goals.

His performance is 99.9% based on his technical ability and soccer intelligence and 0.5% based on the crowds reaction towards him.

I don't like fans booing our players over and over for no good reason but every once in a while a player will do something that warrants a boo or two.

They're not perfect and nobody expects them to be but you can't always hug your problem child.

just my opinion of course.

Brooker
11-24-2009, 10:23 PM
In my opinion, all the cheering or booing in the world will not help or hurt players in any way.



i think it helps... and if it doesn't help, surely it's still better than booing them.

players everywhere tell their fans over and over and over again that it's a good thing.

v00d00daddy
11-24-2009, 10:52 PM
i think it helps... and if it doesn't help, surely it's still better than booing them.

players everywhere tell their fans over and over and over again that it's a good thing.


Maybe you're right. In Barrett's case I find it more frustrating than most. There are only so many times that I can say "Nice try. Better luck next time Chad. Chin up".

At some point you have to expect a little more from a player like him.

I hope Preki can get more production out of him, justifying Mo keeping him protected.

Mikey
11-25-2009, 07:51 AM
As a striker he's a joke,and the laugh is at our expense. Fortunately for him all our strikers are a joke, so he'll continue to get game time up front.

Hopefully Preki can make something useful out of his workrate at least.

Pachuco
11-25-2009, 08:53 AM
I see what you're saying and it might be the right solution for scoring. But it's not needed for getting shots... he took the second most shots on the team this season. (DeRo's strike rate wasn't that much better, by the way, at 11 goals on 80 shots versus Barrett's 5 goals on 55 shots.)

I think some people are way to hung up on stats. Where's the stat that says Dero put the ball in the net when we most need it? (Montreal). And where is the stat that says all of the 80 shots Barrett took this season were breakaways?

Dave67
11-25-2009, 09:06 AM
I think some people are way to hung up on stats. Where's the stat that says Dero put the ball in the net when we most need it? (Montreal). And where is the stat that says all of the 80 shots Barrett took this season were breakaways?

I think we just need to toss the Montreal game out of the equation. Barrett came on as a second half sub scored one and set up two. All that Montreal proved is that TFC can clobber Montreal's third stringers.

Anyway, Chad youre still on this team. No one wants to eat crow more than us. Knock in 15 in 2010 and prove us all wrong.

Yohan
11-25-2009, 12:01 PM
Preki is probably sold by Barrett's work ethic more than anything else. Maybe versatility to play striker and winger.

I'm glad that Barrett is going to get another shot with the team. Not that TFC offence was anything consistent in final third of the season, but I thought Barrett was one of more consistent attackers. He didn't score much, but he did stuff that seemed to create chances for others.

BuSaPuNk
11-25-2009, 12:25 PM
Preki is probably sold by Barrett's work ethic more than anything else. Maybe versatility to play striker and winger.

I'm glad that Barrett is going to get another shot with the team. Not that TFC offence was anything consistent in final third of the season, but I thought Barrett was one of more consistent attackers. He didn't score much, but he did stuff that seemed to create chances for others.

Due to our lack of wingers at this moment I would love to see Preki use him on the wing. He seemed to be alot more involved in the play. His ability to swing the ball into the box is probably the best on the team right now with Brennan in a close second. (Saying this asuming Guevarra is gone)

He should be used on the wing with Brennan this year and the #1 goal in the offseason besides suring up our backline will be to get an all out striker to help OBW.

Shakes McQueen
11-26-2009, 04:41 AM
Preki is probably sold by Barrett's work ethic more than anything else. Maybe versatility to play striker and winger.

I'm glad that Barrett is going to get another shot with the team. Not that TFC offence was anything consistent in final third of the season, but I thought Barrett was one of more consistent attackers. He didn't score much, but he did stuff that seemed to create chances for others.

Yeah, I definitely think Barrett's work ethic is the single biggest reason he was left protected by Preki.

I'm actually excited to see if Chad can pick up his game under this new coach. Perhaps having a proven scorer for a coach will give him someone who can impart the wisdom he needs to calm down and put his shots on target more often.

It'd be great to see. Barrett is one of the players on our team whom I'd love to have more success, because he works so hard, and seems to appreciate being in a market like ours. He's also really good at linking up play, and putting in the odd clever pass for others. Hopefully a more tactically adept coach can get more out of him.

- Scott

Erkan16
11-26-2009, 08:44 PM
we would have been better off if he was not protected.

Redpunkfiddle
11-26-2009, 09:25 PM
Due to our lack of wingers at this moment I would love to see Preki use him on the wing. He seemed to be alot more involved in the play. His ability to swing the ball into the box is probably the best on the team right now with Brennan in a close second. (Saying this asuming Guevarra is gone)

He should be used on the wing with Brennan this year and the #1 goal in the offseason besides suring up our backline will be to get an all out striker to help OBW.

Cronin has a better cross in my opinion.

jloome
11-27-2009, 12:59 PM
Cronin has a better cross in my opinion.

For sure. Cronin is an exceptional passer, maybe the best on the team. A couple of times, he delivered a horizontal ball (with him facing the sideline) deep into the corner that just stopped on a dime. The kid is going to be a real playmaker as he keeps growing into pro speed and strength.

jloome
11-27-2009, 01:00 PM
Yeah, I definitely think Barrett's work ethic is the single biggest reason he was left protected by Preki.

I'm actually excited to see if Chad can pick up his game under this new coach. Perhaps having a proven scorer for a coach will give him someone who can impart the wisdom he needs to calm down and put his shots on target more often.

It'd be great to see. Barrett is one of the players on our team whom I'd love to have more success, because he works so hard, and seems to appreciate being in a market like ours. He's also really good at linking up play, and putting in the odd clever pass for others. Hopefully a more tactically adept coach can get more out of him.

- Scott

They need to show him Jeff Cunningham's scoring history and teach him that if Cunningham can end a slump, anyone can.

BuSaPuNk
11-27-2009, 01:21 PM
Cronin has a better cross in my opinion.

No question. Have Cronin and Barrett play wide on the wing when your playing a quick team. I wouldn't want Brennan playing wide and leaving us exposed to a quick run towards our goal.

Shakes McQueen
11-27-2009, 04:18 PM
They need to show him Jeff Cunningham's scoring history and teach him that if Cunningham can end a slump, anyone can.

Exactly. Even if Preki could turn him into a consistent 12-15 goal a year forward, I'd be content. It's pretty clear to me that he can't be our #1 source for goals, but I'd love to see him turn into a consistent threat when he's on the pitch.

- Scott

CretanBull
11-27-2009, 04:28 PM
I'm willing to give all of our strikers a second chance based on the facts that we were the easiest team in the league to defend against (due mainly to our lack of width) and that none of them got quality service last season. If we can spread out defenders and do something other than try to go straight down the middle and they still can't score then I'll worry, until then they get a free pass in my book.

ecospice
11-27-2009, 05:37 PM
Barrett's finishing was crap last year, everyone knows that. However, he does play very well with the ball (except for finishing) and plays well without the ball too. Now that the team, for the first time, has a real coach, he may very well excel. He also has the potential (read: potential) to be a good winger, which is on the list of team needs. I was happy to see he was protected and think that in the next year or two we will see a breakthrough. Two seasons from now, if I am wrong, I will wear a dress to a game. It will be red.

Jeff s
11-27-2009, 07:43 PM
They need to show him Jeff Cunningham's scoring history and teach him that if Cunningham can end a slump, anyone can.
Problem is Barrett isn't in a slump. Hes been doing this from the very start of his career...

Yohan
11-27-2009, 09:44 PM
. I was happy to see he was protected and think that in the next year or two we will see a breakthrough. Two seasons from now, if I am wrong, I will wear a dress to a game. It will be red.
ohnoes. Mr Rollins, you have started a trend!:p

tfc2007
11-27-2009, 10:46 PM
A Bold Prediction (http://www.rednationonline.ca/A_Bold_Prediction_nov_24_09_column.shtml)

Many have questioned why he was kept on the protected list. Despite his 'finishing', the upside looks better and with a few tweaks, possibly only in confidence (Cunningham?), we will be thankful for not letting him go.

+ Has all the tools, just needs to sharpen a few
+ Will be coached by not just a former, but one of the best all-time MLS strikers
+ Is entering the prime years for a striker

No.
It will not.