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View Full Version : New MLS Season Format for 2010...



james
11-21-2009, 03:44 PM
So as the league grows by expanding in 2010 to 16 teams and 18 teams in 2011 the question is should MLS change its format as the league grows. Apparently MLS is having a balanced schedule next season where all teams play 1-home and 1-away game vs all oponents yet it seems it will keep its East and West Conference. So i was wonderring what sort of format would the fans wnat to see, would they want a change or keep MLS the way it is setup. Heres a poll to pic what changes you would like to see in MLS:

flatpicker
11-21-2009, 03:53 PM
I think if you read any of the numerous threads that discuss this sort of thing, you will get a good idea of what people like.

james
11-21-2009, 04:53 PM
well so far which is what i pretty much exspected is that most people want is the league to just be a 1-league table but still keeping the MLS Cup playoffs after the season. It is easy to do and really just makes sense. Why keep a Eastern and Western conference when we are gonna play every team twice anyways next season.

prizby
11-21-2009, 05:26 PM
this is news worthy???

mighty_torontofc_2008
11-21-2009, 05:47 PM
Keep the East-West format its the best format to keep north americans interest in the game...a one table system is boring.

billyfly
11-21-2009, 07:58 PM
Dude, you live in Brantford. That is the meaning of boring. Are you trying to say you couldn't stand anymore boredom?

TFCRegina
11-22-2009, 01:21 AM
Why is this in the news section?

denime
11-22-2009, 08:41 AM
Why is this in the news section?

Very good question.

Moved

mclaren
11-22-2009, 12:33 PM
1 League Table, No Playoffs

mighty_torontofc_2008
11-22-2009, 03:24 PM
Dude, you live in Brantford. That is the meaning of boring. Are you trying to say you couldn't stand anymore boredom?

yes i could watch the leafs..but even thats getting sad nowadays:(

mighty_torontofc_2008
11-22-2009, 03:26 PM
1 League Table, No Playoffs


of the one table system comes in then yes keep the playoffs....1 v 8, 2 v 7, 3 v 6, 4 v 5 all two leg affairs till the MLS Cup final then just a one game final.

Beach_Red
11-22-2009, 03:30 PM
If the question is, "What set-up is your personal preference," the answers are quite predictable. People like what they already know.

If the question is, "Which system will increase interest in the league and increase ticket sales and TV ratings," that's a little different.

It looks like for quite a while the league will be trying to figure out if there are enough fans of other soccer leagues in the world to make MLS a top league in North America. Or, if they'll have to convert other sports fans.

I guess for now they feel that if the league was a single table with no playoffs by the halfway mark in the season most teams would start losing customers (not season ticket holders, of course, but TV ratings) because their teams would look so far from having any chance of winning anything. A lot of those people would just switch the channel to a baseball game or a football game.

So, the single table won't convert any fans. If you don't already know that system it doesn't seem any better.

But maybe the divisions and the playoffs keep other fans away?

It's a very competitive market, that's for sure.

koryo
11-23-2009, 08:43 AM
^^ A single table would make more sense if there was a relegation/promotion system. It gives teams at both ends something to play for.

The conference / division format makes more sense for us in that it creates the perception that all teams have a better shot of making the post season (unless you're New York this year, and hopefully next...)

Applying a British/European model here may not be the best path to take - and I'm a huge fan of the tiered football league system.

When we get to 18 teams, MLS might be wise to move to three conferences of six teams per (though I wouldn't add any extra post-season spots. There are enough of those as it is).

Fort York Redcoat
11-23-2009, 08:43 AM
I think we should have a 10 game season followed by best of seven series playoffs. That wouldn't confuse any Americans or newbs and would make the most out of the exciting part of the season!


Okay, I'll stomach playoffs like a good little supporter while the rest of the league improves interest for the sport.

Redpunkfiddle
11-23-2009, 09:02 AM
^^ A single table would make more sense if there was a relegation/promotion system. It gives teams at both ends something to play for.

The conference / division format makes more sense for us in that it creates the perception that all teams have a better shot of making the post season (unless you're New York this year, and hopefully next...)

Applying a British/European model here may not be the best path to take - and I'm a huge fan of the tiered football league system.

When we get to 18 teams, MLS might be wise to move to three conferences of six teams per (though I wouldn't add any extra post-season spots. There are enough of those as it is).

That's Mexico's setup right now. Top two from each division plus the two teams
With the most points after that. Which leads to teams in weak divisions getting ahead of more sucessful teams in stronger divisions.

Interestingly, the divisions are not set but seem to redistributed based on their past results for equity. Of course, the competition is also split into apertura and clausura half seasons of 17 games each.

Strangely, one of the world's most prominent leagues is designed around maintaining fan interest... And maximizing revenues through playoff games.

Fort York Redcoat
11-23-2009, 09:21 AM
That's Mexico's setup right now. Top two from each division plus the two teams
With the most points after that. Which leads to teams in weak divisions getting ahead of more sucessful teams in stronger divisions.

Interestingly, the divisions are not set but seem to redistributed based on their past results for equity. Of course, the competition is also split into apertura and clausura half seasons of 17 games each.

Strangely, one of the world's most prominent leagues is designed around maintaining fan interest... And maximizing revenues through playoff games.

Well one may call it great business sense but some may see it as desperation. They introduced these measures to keep certain popular teams up so the league doesn't suffer.

Imagine Newcastle not going down last year but suspension of relegation to factor in the last three years effort and some unlucky minnow team goes down unfairly.

Not so cool.

Beach_Red
11-23-2009, 09:25 AM
^^ A single table would make more sense if there was a relegation/promotion system. It gives teams at both ends something to play for.



Yes, but our team is owned by MLSE so it would always be comfortably in the middle - so, nothing to play for.


(though in fact, not missing the playoffs is something to play for and it affects more than just the teams at the bottom).

jabbronies
11-23-2009, 11:08 AM
^^ A single table would make more sense if there was a relegation/promotion system. It gives teams at both ends something to play for.

The conference / division format makes more sense for us in that it creates the perception that all teams have a better shot of making the post season (unless you're New York this year, and hopefully next...)

Applying a British/European model here may not be the best path to take - and I'm a huge fan of the tiered football league system.

When we get to 18 teams, MLS might be wise to move to three conferences of six teams per (though I wouldn't add any extra post-season spots. There are enough of those as it is).

I don't understand why we need the conference system to create false sense of hope for fans?

At the end of the day the supporters shield is all about who has the most points overall, regardless of what division you play in.

The playoff spots right now are questionable imo.
The top 2 teams in each division go through followed by the the next best 4 based on points...why not just have the top 4 teams from each divison regardless of points overall? why does there need to be this cross over of conference standings and overall points?

They say the split conference is to create rivialries, but when the top teams fighting for the Supporters Shield are in seperate divisions and the Wildcard teams are from different divisions, the conference rivalries mean squat!

I_AM_CANADIAN
11-23-2009, 11:40 AM
Single table, no playoffs. That would be my ideal.

mighty_torontofc_2008
11-23-2009, 11:48 AM
Last nights Cup Final shows way the format should stay the same...a underdong team in RSL beat the starstudded LA Galaxy, and played them off the park for most of the last half of the first half and the rest of the game onwards...Well done RSL,
you deserve to be MLS champions....Crew enjoys your supporters shield drival haha

denime
11-23-2009, 11:49 AM
Single table, no playoffs. That would be my ideal.
+1,since we can't have relegation in NA,at least get rid of playoffs.Reward the team that was first place after 30+ games,and let the other clubs fight for CONCACAF CL.
Make CCL more attractive $$$$ so MLS clubs have a reason to fight for first 4-5 spots.

redtfcred
11-23-2009, 11:49 AM
the way it is now is fine .. Its not Europe where other things / ie Fa Cup or copa del rey .
we have CL but oyyy does anyone really care ?

Redpunkfiddle
11-23-2009, 01:56 PM
Well one may call it great business sense but some may see it as desperation. They introduced these measures to keep certain popular teams up so the league doesn't suffer.

Imagine Newcastle not going down last year but suspension of relegation to factor in the last three years effort and some unlucky minnow team goes down unfairly.

Not so cool.

Oh for sure- and I am sure there are Mexican purists who hare it all too.

Did I mention how relegation is determined by performance over about 3 seasons through a points coefficient?

The point is, even a big sucessful league can wind up with these structures.

Redpunkfiddle
11-23-2009, 01:58 PM
Well one may call it great business sense but some may see it as desperation. They introduced these measures to keep certain popular teams up so the league doesn't suffer.

Imagine Newcastle not going down last year but suspension of relegation to factor in the last three years effort and some unlucky minnow team goes down unfairly.

Not so cool.

Oh for sure- and I am sure there are Mexican purists who hare it all too.

Did I mention how relegation is determined by performance over about 3 seasons through a points coefficient?

The point is, even a big sucessful league can wind up with these structures.

In case anyone thought we were special.

Fort York Redcoat
11-23-2009, 02:28 PM
That's what I was talking bout T. They started that coefficient in a year 1 or 2 of the big guys would've gone down. I'll not challenge the popularity and passion for futbol down there but I doubt in the their ability to sustain that level without changing rules every so often which isn't a very fair system IMO.

s2cazz
11-23-2009, 05:13 PM
I like the playoffs but I think they should hype up the Supporters shield more (as long as the crew doesn't have it lol). They need to make that just as important.

koryo
11-24-2009, 08:31 AM
I don't understand why we need the conference system to create false sense of hope for fans?

Truth be told, neither do I. More of a devil's advocate stance than anything.

In fact, I'd rather the league move towards a European model. After all, making it "more American" won't bring over that portion of the population who thinks that football is a communist ploy. Might as well swing the other way and bring in the people who are more traditionalist.

How about this: we get to 20 teams and split the league into two divisions, and introduce promotion / relegation.

That's what I'd love to see but I'm not holding my breath. For all their bravado, the Americans don't have the stomach for a tiered system.

They bottle it when there's really something on the line ;)

jabbronies
11-24-2009, 09:37 AM
How about this: we get to 20 teams and split the league into two divisions, and introduce promotion / relegation.

That's what I'd love to see but I'm not holding my breath. For all their bravado, the Americans don't have the stomach for a tiered system.

They bottle it when there's really something on the line ;)

I don't think we'll see a relegation system in this league. At least not in our lifetime. And not when owners are paying upwards of $20 Million to get a team in the league.

Does anyone know how the major Euro leagues got thier start? Did owners buy into the league the same way MLS is done? or was it local clubs that already existed, formed a league and then fought thier way up into the top tier?

james
11-24-2009, 02:29 PM
I don't think we'll see a relegation system in this league. At least not in our lifetime. And not when owners are paying upwards of $20 Million to get a team in the league.

Does anyone know how the major Euro leagues got thier start? Did owners buy into the league the same way MLS is done? or was it local clubs that already existed, formed a league and then fought thier way up into the top tier?

well the big Euro soccer Leagues started 100+ years ago back when players didnt get paid to play and it was either free to go to watch a game or it was at least dirt cheap, maybe just so the team could afford things like a stadium or to cover travel costs, but it wasnt about making profits. Soccer was just a working mans game back then. Today soccer has completely changed so you cant compare how leagues were formed then to how they would be formed today.

james
11-24-2009, 02:35 PM
Last nights Cup Final shows way the format should stay the same...a underdong team in RSL beat the starstudded LA Galaxy, and played them off the park for most of the last half of the first half and the rest of the game onwards...Well done RSL,
you deserve to be MLS champions....Crew enjoys your supporters shield drival haha

but if you have a 1-league table followed by the same playoff format we have now the same teams would have been in the playoffs anyways and RSL still would be the MLS Cup Champions. Its still just top 8 teams at end of the season are in the playoffs, just as if you have East and West Conferences since the way the MLS is curremtly set up as top 2 teams in East and West qualify followed by the next 4 top teams regardless what division you are in.

jabbronies
11-24-2009, 02:46 PM
well the big Euro soccer Leagues started 100+ years ago back when players didnt get paid to play and it was either free to go to watch a game or it was at least dirt cheap, maybe just so the team could afford things like a stadium or to cover travel costs, but it wasnt about making profits. Soccer was just a working mans game back then. Today soccer has completely changed so you cant compare how leagues were formed then to how they would be formed today.

I find it hard to believe parts of this statement. Yes, some teams started off as "office teams" but in order to compete they had to turn professional (pay players). There have always been investors in the bigger leagues. once you have investors, they always want to see profits in return.

The only way i can see a second division happening is the way it happened in England, but even then, I'd highly doubt the American investor would go for having thier $20million dollar team relegated to a league lower than what they initially signed up for.

Basically League 1 inherited clubs from another league. That other other league was considered division 2 and the current league 1 was division 1.
It would be like MLS buying USL and having that as Division 2 with MLS being Division 1. Other teams joined league 1 (Not sure if they just applied or if they had to pay to get in) and other divisions were created through folding leagues.

SilverSamurai
11-24-2009, 05:58 PM
Keep it as east vs. west, but only allow the top 4 teams from each division into the playoffs. can either do 1 v 8, or 1 v 4 if you go by division.

Personally I don't really care about the Supporters Shield, sure it's nice but it's all about the MLS Cup for me. I think most typical North American sport fans feel the same. Just look at other sports. Does anyone care in baseball, hockey or basketball about the team that has the most points? It's all about the finals. (ok theirs always Nascar, but they only do left turns, lol)
Maybe I don't care because even IF TFC somehow won both, they still have to win the V's Cup. I dunno.

I do think more emphasis should be placed on the CL though. Then again it's only in year 2 though.

scooter
11-25-2009, 05:04 PM
as much as i would like to see a single table and even relegation it wont work in north america
which sucks
so i guess we are stuck with current format

Strikers
11-25-2009, 05:13 PM
I like the single table format to play for the Supporters Shield, then they can have all teams play for the MLS Cup during the season. And have the semi finals and MLS final after the season is over. With a balanced schedule with league games being played on the weekend with all other competition played durinf mid week.

mighty_torontofc_2008
11-25-2009, 05:20 PM
I like the single table format to play for the Supporters Shield, then they can have all teams play for the MLS Cup during the season. And have the semi finals and MLS final after the season is over. With a balanced schedule with league games being played on the weekend with all other competition played durinf mid week.


the supporters shield has no meaning...it has far less meaning then the superliga, us open cup, and the canadian championship events. MLS Cup
is the league championship and thats how it should be the should get rid of the supporters shield as use that as a player of year award etc. keep the divisons and conferences, the single table will not work here, nor do i want to see it happen, it would be a mistake if the league went that route.

tfc2007
11-25-2009, 05:33 PM
the supporters sheid does not mean nothing. I would be pretty happy if TFC had won the supporters sheild.
what means nothing is the trillium cup or whatever the heck it isss.

james
11-25-2009, 05:34 PM
the supporters shield has no meaning...it has far less meaning then the superliga, us open cup, and the canadian championship events. MLS Cup
is the league championship and thats how it should be the should get rid of the supporters shield as use that as a player of year award etc. keep the divisons and conferences, the single table will not work here, nor do i want to see it happen, it would be a mistake if the league went that route.

Supporters Shield winner qualifies for Champions League, so it wouldnt be any less meanningful then US Open Cup, SuperLiga and Canadian Championship. SuperLiga actually would probably have the least meanningful cup to win.

well 60% of people that voted would disagree with you and rather see a 1-League table. If majority of fans in MLS would prefer a 1-League table then it wouldnt be a mistake!

I think many people think the East, West Conference has no meanning in Soccer and are bored of the same old way as all the other sports in USA setup is and many people i think would rather the league take a new direction towards a european format. Soccer can be more of a unique sport in the USA.

james
11-25-2009, 05:36 PM
the supporters sheid does not mean nothing. I would be pretty happy if TFC had won the supporters sheild.
what means nothing is the trillium cup or whatever the heck it isss.

ya that cup is retarted. Super Liga would mean nothing to me niether. Supporters shield would mean more if it was a 1-League table.

james
11-25-2009, 05:54 PM
I find it hard to believe parts of this statement. Yes, some teams started off as "office teams" but in order to compete they had to turn professional (pay players). There have always been investors in the bigger leagues. once you have investors, they always want to see profits in return.

The only way i can see a second division happening is the way it happened in England, but even then, I'd highly doubt the American investor would go for having thier $20million dollar team relegated to a league lower than what they initially signed up for.

Basically League 1 inherited clubs from another league. That other other league was considered division 2 and the current league 1 was division 1.
It would be like MLS buying USL and having that as Division 2 with MLS being Division 1. Other teams joined league 1 (Not sure if they just applied or if they had to pay to get in) and other divisions were created through folding leagues.

well of course teams eventually started paying players and making profits but this was years after teams had already formed. We are talking about back in the 1800's. And into the very early 1900's when all these leagues had formed. I dont know exatly when players started getting paid in soccer but for an example players in the NHL didnt start getting paid till the late 20's i believe, and that was just enough to put food on the table. In Soccer players for the most part just made an average mans salary up untill about the 60's or 70's when players actually started to get paid big bucks, and that was only the big clubs. Stadiums back then were all run down, terraces and cheap to attend. Soccer has changed alot since the beginning years of these leagues.

SilverSamurai
11-25-2009, 05:56 PM
Supporters Shield winner qualifies for Champions League, so it wouldnt be any less meanningful then US Open Cup, SuperLiga and Canadian Championship. SuperLiga actually would probably have the least meanningful cup to win.

well 60% of people that voted would disagree with you and rather see a 1-League table. If majority of fans in MLS would prefer a 1-League table then it wouldnt be a mistake!

I think many people think the East, West Conference has no meanning in Soccer and are bored of the same old way as all the other sports in USA setup is and many people i think would rather the league take a new direction towards a european format. Soccer can be more of a unique sport in the USA.
But you have to remember that the majority of that 60% of those that want a single table likely aren't new footy fans.
Winning the Supporters Shield has no real benefit to TFC except for bragging rights and getting another trophy. Because we're a Canadian team, it means nothing in terms of CL qualifications.
I can't believe I'm agreeing with mighty... :facepalm:

Sure winning the league is nice, but doesn't do much for us.
I do agree that SuperLiga is the least important though, especially now with the Champions League to look forward to.

Fort York Redcoat
11-26-2009, 08:54 AM
But you have to remember that the majority of that 60% of those that want a single table likely aren't new footy fans.
Winning the Supporters Shield has no real benefit to TFC except for bragging rights and getting another trophy. Because we're a Canadian team, it means nothing in terms of CL qualifications.
I can't believe I'm agreeing with mighty... :facepalm:

Sure winning the league is nice, but doesn't do much for us.
I do agree that SuperLiga is the least important though, especially now with the Champions League to look forward to.

I can't believe it either. So what if we don't get a spot in the CL? It's the most difficult trophy to get in this league and I don't give a damn if the majority of fans won't honour it.


ya that cup is retarted. Super Liga would mean nothing to me niether. Supporters shield would mean more if it was a 1-League table.

I agree the table would look better but how would it be worth more? Top of the league and two conferences is still the top.

Hitcho
11-26-2009, 01:36 PM
MLS really needs to be bold and move to a single table format. they can keep the play offs for now if they want, to avoid too much confusion, but at least then people could look at the table and see who won the SS without having to do a compare and contrast, and see the playoff teams without having to break out a calculator.

ONce that has settled in, they can look at scrapping the play offs and instead having an MLS Cup as a knock out through the season. So, you get a league winner and a cup winner. Keep at least the final of the MLS Cup after the season end.

The league title should stay up for grabs until pretty late into each season - it does now - and the enforced parity will make that more likely. same goes for the ludicrously tight play off place hunt each year (you just lose the headache trying to work out who's in and out, top 8 and that's it).

this is a really good plan and will let MLS get some real world footie credence as well as keep the american audience on the same page.

mighty_torontofc_2008
11-26-2009, 01:46 PM
But you have to remember that the majority of that 60% of those that want a single table likely aren't new footy fans.
Winning the Supporters Shield has no real benefit to TFC except for bragging rights and getting another trophy. Because we're a Canadian team, it means nothing in terms of CL qualifications.
I can't believe I'm agreeing with mighty... :facepalm:

Sure winning the league is nice, but doesn't do much for us.
I do agree that SuperLiga is the least important though, especially now with the Champions League to look forward to.


my major beef with the one table over here, is take a team like Columbus,
who have trouble drawing fans at the best of times, say in a one tier league they are sitting 15th place 20 points back around early september,
do you think that would draw many fans out to crew stadium, while in the current format they could still have a shot at the mls cup?

james
11-26-2009, 05:10 PM
my major beef with the one table over here, is take a team like Columbus,
who have trouble drawing fans at the best of times, say in a one tier league they are sitting 15th place 20 points back around early september,
do you think that would draw many fans out to crew stadium, while in the current format they could still have a shot at the mls cup?


But the option to keep the playoffs but just changing the season to a 1-league table wouldnt change the chance of Columbus making the playoffs. The only difference is as a East vs West it is more of a false sense of your team looks better off then they really are. In a 1-League Table say they are in 15th place out of 16 teams, and only top 8 make the playoffs they appear to be 7 places back. Where if its an East Conference they might be in 7th place out of 8 teams and they look like they are only 3 places back, but really once you add the west in there they are still in the same 15th place in the whole league. Currently in MLS its not setup where 4 teams from the East and 4 from west make the playoffs, its setup where the top 8 make the playoffs regarless what division you are in, you can have 5 teams in the West and 3 in the East in the playoffs and so on. Soo its still the same as a 1-league table.