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View Full Version : Preki, the death of "exciting, attacking" soccer



Oldtimer
11-19-2009, 09:48 AM
I'm posting this separately from the Preki to Toronto thread because this is to discuss the style of the team under Preki rather than his coming itself.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

While I feel that Preki is the right coach for the job and is exactly what TFC needs right now, it also means the death of the dream Mo promised in year 1: "exciting, attacking soccer."

Preki plays a highly defensive style, where the players play their roles in a system. There is little room for "flair" players, and DeRo and Guevara (if Guevara sticks around) will be tend to be frustrated with their restricted roles.

Chivas tended to play a very scrappy, ugly type of football under Preki.

So we need to temper our expectations as to how "exciting" our games will be and how the team will play.

The strength of Preki's type of system in MLS and in CONCACAF is undeniable. Even an unbalanced squad, or a squad with relatively weak players (such as Chivas had) can do well. In CONCACAF play, strong defensive teams do well. The perfect example was Montreal's run in the CCL, where Limniatiis had players like Adam Braz looking good as they played their roles and knew their positions. It all fell apart in Mexico, where under pressure the players panicked and forgot their roles, if the Impact had players with stronger character and higher quality, they would have won that match.

The best teams in the world don't play either defensive possession, or fast attacking, they play a "hybrid" style (Barcelon and Manchester United are examples of teams that play a hybrid style). however, it would be impossible to achieve this under any coach that's good enough for MLS but not good enough for Europe. Neither would it be possible with the unbalanced squads that MLS squad and salary restrictions tend to produce. So teams have to either be one or the other. Most MLS and other CONCACAF teams tend to be of the "attacking" variety, and so are vulnerable to teams that are strong defensively and score on the counter-attack.

I expect to see TFC do well in grinding out wins and ties enough to advance to the MLS playoffs and push into the CCL beyond the first round. However, don't be under any illusions, the coming of Preki is the death of "exciting, attractive soccer" in Toronto.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-19-2009, 09:50 AM
did we ever see anything of what Mo promised us in year 1?
Not really, I dont think we ever really saw exciting, attacking soccer, we saw bits and pieces but even then it was far too inconsistent
I dont think what we will see will be miserable and i dont think we will be complaining,especially if we get results

Shaughno
11-19-2009, 09:53 AM
I remember ONE game of exciting attacking soccer. We stopped playing long ball for just long enough to register a 4-0 win.

That's the ONLY time, in three fucking years, that I was excited by the actual level of play on the pitch from our team. Even 6-1 in Montreal, was the game exciting? Yeah, more because of what was on the line rather than the actual level of play, but I'll give you two games... I'm being nice here.

All I ask for at this point, is a team that plays... *gasp* as a team and grinds out results when they are needed. Our stats for goals against in the final 15 minutes of the game, are absolutely disgusting. Our play this season was abysmal at best, aside from a few spotty glimpses of decent football.

TFC Tifoso
11-19-2009, 09:53 AM
have we ever consistently played "exciting, attacking soccer" in our first 3 years anyways?.....I can count maybe on one hand the number of games that would qualify as such.

What counts is results.....if Preki can get us the results, that is all that matters to me. Right now, defensive discipline is what this team needs.

Beach_Red
11-19-2009, 09:57 AM
So, even before the guy gets named coach we've found a way to look at winning games, getting into the playoffs and the CCL as a negative.

This is a funny sport....

I_AM_CANADIAN
11-19-2009, 10:02 AM
What TFC Tifoso said. At this point, I want results. Any tactics that lead to games being won, and stay within the rules, are valid.

Keyman
11-19-2009, 10:02 AM
I can't analyze this signing! I want to, I really do...part of me just wants to jump out at say, PREKI, what a horrendous signing, we should have signed Nicol, or, Preki will be fantastic, because I know what kind of tactical style he will bring to the club. But I really can't, I want to wait and see what Preki does with my own eyes before I even make one judgment in regards to this signing.

Azerban
11-19-2009, 10:06 AM
1-0 wins, when coming consistently, are exciting as all hell

winning is exciting



winning owns

Shaughno
11-19-2009, 10:10 AM
1-0 wins, when coming consistently, are exciting as all hell

winning is exciting



winning owns

I don't care if 90% of our wins are from own goals by the other team at this point. A win is a win and it gets us one step closer to playoffs.

fetajr
11-19-2009, 10:12 AM
TFC never had "Exciting, Attacking" soccer to begin with.... unless Mo considers "long ball, boot it up the field and hope for the best" exciting and the best way to attack. Mo knows shit, but Preki is the best thing to have happened to TFC so far.

pekduck
11-19-2009, 10:13 AM
1-0 wins, when coming consistently, are exciting as all hell

winning is exciting



winning owns


I don't care if 90% of our wins are from own goals by the other team at this point. A win is a win and it gets us one step closer to playoffs.

stop bringing up sensible perspectives :D

a win is a win is a win, i'll take 1-0 tough grind for a win any day

besides, defensive minded and highly disciplined team (if we ever get to that point) do score goals more effectively more often than not

Shaughno
11-19-2009, 10:14 AM
^^ Exactly, ask Italy about that.

MrHawk
11-19-2009, 10:17 AM
As long as TFC Win..............no one should care.

Results are #1.......

TOBOR !
11-19-2009, 10:18 AM
Ha ha ha... "Exciting, attacking soccer"... it is to LOL.

mdc 77
11-19-2009, 10:19 AM
"exciting, attractive soccer"
hahaha

In three years I've seen almost every TFC match live, on tv or online...in those three years I don't remember anytime, other than 4-0 Dallas, that i saw "exciting, attractive soccer". I'll take the most boring footy i've ever seen if we win. I don't care if DeRo scores 1 goal next year, if we win MLS i'll be happy.

trane
11-19-2009, 10:22 AM
I am excited. We may acctualy win on a consistent basis.

I_AM_CANADIAN
11-19-2009, 10:24 AM
Zactly, I can recall a small handful of games that featured exciting, attacking soccer from us. Wins are exciting.

Whoop
11-19-2009, 10:24 AM
^^

That's it trane?

LOL

I figured you would go on a rant on how defensive, disciplined football and attacking on the counter IS exciting.

I_AM_CANADIAN
11-19-2009, 10:27 AM
^ Same, trane, this thread was tailor-made for you. ;)

jabbronies
11-19-2009, 10:27 AM
I'm all for a more technically sound style of game. Under this system we are going to see the ball on the ground more than in the air which is perfect IMO. We'll also see the ball moving through the midfield from the back like it's suppose to.

We have 3 players in the mid who are attacking in style - Dero, Guevara and Julian can play it if he needs to. We also have Vitti who knows nothing except attacking.
I don't think Preki should overlook this like he was able to the first time around with Guevara in Chivas.

There are too many key players (3) on this team that attack by nature, he should learn to incorporate them into his system. It may be the key to balancing the defensive and offensive styles like Oldtimer said would be difficult to achieve in his first post.

trane
11-19-2009, 10:28 AM
^ Well it is. I find open undisicplied and poor play that we have seen more often then not in the past 3 years, to be very very unexciting.

I will also say that a disciplined defensive system kills the creative player is not realy true. The creative player is put in a roll within that system to use his creativity. He just has to make sure that he does not forget his defensive duties.

As Shags says see Italy, on the counter they can create some moments of amazing football taking advantage of the spaces created by the other team haveing to press too hard to come forward.

Lucky Strike
11-19-2009, 10:29 AM
have we ever consistently played "exciting, attacking soccer" in our first 3 years anyways?.....I can count maybe on one hand the number of games that would qualify as such.

What counts is results.....if Preki can get us the results, that is all that matters to me. Right now, defensive discipline is what this team needs.

To me, it's the same situation as when my Pittsburgh Penguins brought in Therien. You had a guy who insisted on trapping with arguably the best offensive team in hockey. At first, I liked it because the team played better but over time, I grew to hate it, it was so damn ugly to watch night in and night out but it taught the team how to play defense well and it benefitted them in the long term.

Preki, if indeed hired 30 minutes from now, is that same step in TFC's existence. It may be boring, but if it teaches them how to play well defensively and how to grind out results and not concede the late goal, it will be well worth it. Like others right now, I only care about winning, style be damned.

Beach_Red
11-19-2009, 10:30 AM
It seems like the only thing this team really needs to change from last season is the last ten minutes of the game.

alexintoronto
11-19-2009, 10:31 AM
have we ever consistently played "exciting, attacking soccer" in our first 3 years anyways?.....I can count maybe on one hand the number of games that would qualify as such.

What counts is results.....if Preki can get us the results, that is all that matters to me. Right now, defensive discipline is what this team needs.

I've seen plenty of exciting, attacking soccer. Did Mo specify it would be our team doing the attacking?

:drinking:

trane
11-19-2009, 10:39 AM
^ To be honest some games I was amazed that we did not lose by more goals, we were so exposed and disorganized.

TFC Tifoso
11-19-2009, 10:40 AM
I've seen plenty of exciting, attacking soccer. Did Mo specify it would be our team doing the attacking?

:drinking:

LOL......good one, Alex!

trane
11-19-2009, 11:04 AM
TFC exciting systems; an in play snapshot;


2007/2008

-------------S--------------RB
----LM-DM--CM--AM---RM----
LB----------------------------
------------------------------
------CB----------------------
------------CB----------------

2009

--------S--S---S-------RB--
------LM-CM----RM---------
LB---------------------------
-----------------------------
-----------------------------
----------------------------
-------CB-CB----------------

Redcoe15
11-19-2009, 11:05 AM
Win now, style later.

Marco2K
11-19-2009, 11:08 AM
This thread is a joke!!

drewski
11-19-2009, 11:10 AM
at this point, i'll take boring winning football over "exciting" losing football

TFC Cityboy
11-19-2009, 11:13 AM
From what I have read, Peki will bring a disciplined professional attitude to the players and organisation on the filed.
All solid teams are built upon a disciplined and strong defence. This allows the flair players to get forward and create.

Our defence is horrible so it's clear that should be priority #1.
It's also clear that goals are an issue.
We need to give the guy time. He has the whole winter to mould the squad and we need to cut him some slack early doors in 2010 to get the balance right (in the words of Depeche Mode).
Anything will be an improvement on shoddy work ethic, and lumping it long as we have seen in years 1 2 and 3.

I_AM_CANADIAN
11-19-2009, 11:14 AM
^ To be honest some games I was amazed that we did not lose by more goals, we were so exposed and disorganized.
We let our keeper bail us out and got lucky a LOT. We also gave up a lot of free kicks around the box that were seemingly never converted. We should make a pitch for an experienced, quality MLS centre back before anything else.

flatpicker
11-19-2009, 11:24 AM
Just watched the Preki interview.
I think he said all the right things, and if he's true to his word then there should be a new attitude in the dressing room next season.
I'm excited to see what kind of impact he has on the club.

rocker
11-19-2009, 11:25 AM
Chivas didn't play boring, defensive soccer.
I found their style more entertaining than TFC's. Nice passing, runs off the ball, attacking too. But disciplined.

Chivas's problem often was scoring. They'd blow chances like Chad Barrett would blow chances. But I often saw Chivas creating chances. They were also a bruising team but I figured that came from Preki's intensity rubbing off on everyone.

Somebody said Steve Nicol's Revs play a boring defensive style but I never understood the criticism. Maybe I'm just yearning for some organization and discipline. But I never saw either team as "boring" to watch. And I watch a lot of non-TFC MLS games.

Oldtimer
11-19-2009, 12:09 PM
"Boring" is in the eye of the beholder. Millions watch Serie A each week and love it.

Lucky Strike
11-19-2009, 12:11 PM
TFC exciting systems; an in play snapshot;


2007/2008

-------------S--------------RB
----LM-DM--CM--AM---RM----
LB----------------------------
------------------------------
------CB----------------------
------------CB----------------

2009

--------S--S---S-------RB--
------LM-CM----RM---------
LB---------------------------
-----------------------------
-----------------------------
----------------------------
-------CB-CB----------------

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! This will stand as one of the classic posts.

rocker
11-19-2009, 12:21 PM
"Boring" is in the eye of the beholder. Millions watch Serie A each week and love it.

I just think it's used as a way of criticizing coaches without actually backing it up with evidence. For example, the DC exec who called RSL "boring" recently while suggesting DC United played such an amazingly entertaining style of football. I think DC was much more entertaining years ago than this season. and I don't think RSL was "boring". Maybe on the road they tried to tighten up, but that's on the road. At home they often were pretty high flying, including beating NE 6-something. To me, DC weren't THAT entertaining to watch this year. They were very sloppy actually.

I think a coach can't think of just applying "boring" or "entertaining" styles to his team. In MLS you gotta identify what you have in front of you. Then customize the style to the players you have. The perfect, beautiful style is tough to just create under the cap system. #1 is to be organized and eliminate those dumb mistakes that change the balance in so many tight games.

__wowza
11-19-2009, 12:31 PM
he looks like hugh jackman and the guy that plays peter from heros had a kid.

http://web.mlsnet.com/imgs/bios/photos/preki.jpg
http://accidentalsexiness.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/jackman.jpg

ilikemusic
11-19-2009, 12:34 PM
While I feel that Preki is the right coach for the job and is exactly what TFC needs right now, it also means the death of the dream Mo promised in year 1: "exciting, attacking soccer.

Are you saying we have been watching exciting, attacking soccer these past three years?

__wowza
11-19-2009, 12:37 PM
seriously though, greece in euro 2004 was damn exciting soccer.
you cant look at the way we've been playing and say that it's EVER been "exciting" soccer. our defense has shat the bed in almost every game imaginable, so i really can't see how a defensive minded coach can spell the end for us. our backline has always struggled, and it's not like preki won't understand that we have a problem netting goals. i just don't understand how criticism can be based off of a role he's been in for a day, give the guy a shot before we start jumping down his throat.

Oldtimer
11-19-2009, 12:41 PM
Are you saying we have been watching exciting, attacking soccer these past three years?

Note, I said it was the DREAM of exciting, attacking soccer, not the reality. :drinking:

koryo
11-19-2009, 12:46 PM
I remember ONE game of exciting attacking soccer. We stopped playing long ball for just long enough to register a 4-0 win.

That's the ONLY time, in three fucking years, that I was excited by the actual level of play on the pitch from our team. Even 6-1 in Montreal, was the game exciting? Yeah, more because of what was on the line rather than the actual level of play, but I'll give you two games... I'm being nice here.

All I ask for at this point, is a team that plays... *gasp* as a team and grinds out results when they are needed. Our stats for goals against in the final 15 minutes of the game, are absolutely disgusting. Our play this season was abysmal at best, aside from a few spotty glimpses of decent football.

Second season, early on at home to Kansas City we played a very fluid first half.

I only remember it because I hadn't seen such nice football from this team before, and haven't since.

TFCRegina
11-19-2009, 12:47 PM
I love how in the interview he stuttered when he said, 'I think this is one of the best franchises in the league..." bahahaha.

At least he has a conscience.

Lucky Strike
11-19-2009, 12:48 PM
Second season, early on at home to Kansas City we played a very fluid first half.

I only remember it because I hadn't seen such nice football from this team before, and haven't since.

The Chivas game when Cummins took over was a work of art, the first half of the 2008 home opener against RSL was a beauty-display.

Just to add to your list.

Jamaicanadian
11-19-2009, 01:03 PM
........I will also say that a disciplined defensive system kills the creative player is not realy true. The creative player is put in a role within that system to use his creativity. He just has to make sure that he does not forget his defensive duties.

As Shags says see Italy, on the counter they can create some moments of amazing football taking advantage of the spaces created by the other team haveing to press too hard to come forward.

True indeed!

prizby
11-19-2009, 01:11 PM
just watched the press conference

he says:
"This is the winning place. We are going to turn this place into something that is special. I don't know how long this is going to take *NOW* but I tell you umm this is going to be a hard hard...*AGAIN*I don't really have to worry about things upstairs

as he is doing this, he shakes his head. around 2:30 and 2:50. Now I might have been watching tv a bit too much...the tv show Lie To Me...but it seems like he doesn't believe what he is saying, or for now he doesn't.


Nevertheless, I believe he is the right person for the job and I have full confidence in him and he will change TFC's fortunes!!!

Daveisonfire
11-19-2009, 01:11 PM
I don't care what it looks like as long as its in the win column.

Super
11-19-2009, 01:14 PM
Preki is exactly what this team needs right now. All the talk about lack of motivation and trouble in the locker-room. I think Preki will put his foot down and demand the very best from all players - or they'll be filtered out before the start of the season.

prizby
11-19-2009, 01:17 PM
Preki is exactly what this team needs right now. All the talk about lack of motivation and trouble in the locker-room. I think Preki will put his foot down and demand the very best from all players - or they'll be filtered out before the start of the season.

+1...

greatwhitenorf
11-19-2009, 01:18 PM
Can't say as I've studiously observed Chivas over the years, but I do recall seeing some nice goals from them in highlights, especially Klestjan's.

I'll gladly settle for better in-house discipline, more consistent results and the notion that we can establish an insurmountable 1-0 lead.

Otherwise, not much point in pre-judging the guy until we see what he gets to work with and what he can do with it. Should know by Canada Day, wot?

ensco
11-19-2009, 01:18 PM
The Chivas game when Cummins took over was a work of art, the first half of the 2008 home opener against RSL was a beauty-display.

Just to add to your list.

There are lots more examples just this year.

Most of the opener against KC this year. A stretch in the home game vs Columbus this year (that culminated in a great goal from Cronin to Barrett). The first half at Seattle might have been our best half of the year.

prizby
11-19-2009, 01:27 PM
preki plays defensive ehh


--------------------Frei--------------------
---Attakora-Gomez/New CB-Serioux---
Wynne------------JDG----------Brennan
-------Cronin----DeRo----Barrett--------
-------------------OBW--------------------

Subs:
Edwards
Fellinga
New CB/Gomez
Sanyang
RoBo (at a reduced contract)
Vitti (at a reduced contract)
Gerba

Others:
Gala
Ibrahim

Bye Bye:
Guevara
Maybe Vitti


i wonder what new players are coming in

Chewy Unikronik
11-19-2009, 01:35 PM
Maybe I'm just 2 demanding
Maybe I'm just like my father 2 bold
Maybe you're just like my mother
She's never satisfied (She's never satisfied)
Why do we scream at each other
This is what it sounds like...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9c/Princepurplerain.jpg

tlear
11-19-2009, 01:43 PM
I agree 100% victory over anything..

but I would bet cash that these boards will be filled with whining if we start using 4 man defense + JDG as man marker with a single striker "attack". Greece I thought had an incredible run at Euro 2004, yet every color (non-Greek) fan was whining and bitching about their style (it won them the EURO remember?). Oh and they just finished knocking out my team (Ukraine) out of WC, the bastards (they were playing 5 defenders at HOME)

Win at any cost, should be our motto. Instead of All for One..

jloome
11-19-2009, 02:11 PM
This ignores another factor: the differences between our two respective rosters.

As a team, player for player, we have a substantially more skilled roster than Chivas. In fact, our lack of discipline has frequently led to players falling back on those skills, regardless of whether it benefited team play.

Technical players, forced to play a more restrictive role, can still let their technique shine; they've just got boundaries. So while Chivas might have been very chippy as a result of their tactical rigidity, TFC may simply become much more possession-oriented, which is a very good thing, especially in an aggressive league.

Maybe as our opponents tire from it, we'll go from giving away goals in the final 15 minutes to actually scoring a few.



I'm posting this separately from the Preki to Toronto thread because this is to discuss the style of the team under Preki rather than his coming itself.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

While I feel that Preki is the right coach for the job and is exactly what TFC needs right now, it also means the death of the dream Mo promised in year 1: "exciting, attacking soccer."

Preki plays a highly defensive style, where the players play their roles in a system. There is little room for "flair" players, and DeRo and Guevara (if Guevara sticks around) will be tend to be frustrated with their restricted roles.

Chivas tended to play a very scrappy, ugly type of football under Preki.

So we need to temper our expectations as to how "exciting" our games will be and how the team will play.

The strength of Preki's type of system in MLS and in CONCACAF is undeniable. Even an unbalanced squad, or a squad with relatively weak players (such as Chivas had) can do well. In CONCACAF play, strong defensive teams do well. The perfect example was Montreal's run in the CCL, where Limniatiis had players like Adam Braz looking good as they played their roles and knew their positions. It all fell apart in Mexico, where under pressure the players panicked and forgot their roles, if the Impact had players with stronger character and higher quality, they would have won that match.

The best teams in the world don't play either defensive possession, or fast attacking, they play a "hybrid" style (Barcelon and Manchester United are examples of teams that play a hybrid style). however, it would be impossible to achieve this under any coach that's good enough for MLS but not good enough for Europe. Neither would it be possible with the unbalanced squads that MLS squad and salary restrictions tend to produce. So teams have to either be one or the other. Most MLS and other CONCACAF teams tend to be of the "attacking" variety, and so are vulnerable to teams that are strong defensively and score on the counter-attack.

I expect to see TFC do well in grinding out wins and ties enough to advance to the MLS playoffs and push into the CCL beyond the first round. However, don't be under any illusions, the coming of Preki is the death of "exciting, attractive soccer" in Toronto.

Hitcho
11-19-2009, 02:13 PM
I don't think you can compare MLS to major European leagues the way the OP did.

In this league, you need a workable system that includes a reasonably solid defence, good amount of possession and the ability to poke the ball into the back of the net (either from midfield or your striker(s)). That's it. In MLS, football is stripped down to the bare essentials, that's the nature of the beast created by the salary cap and the roster restrictions. A solid team, adequate in defence and possession with someone that can score some way some how is enough to get you into the play offs and from there it's all about commitment and cohesion in the team.

I think Preki could do really here. It sounds as though he has the personality to stamp out the locker room uprising and the ability to introduce a solid, workable system. Add to that a clutch of players who are pretty good by MLS standards in CM to build your system around and some great young talent, and all the ingredients are there. Oh, and a top class playing surface and committed, raucous fans that pack out the stadium every week.

We'll make the post-season in 2010, barring some complete meltdown between coach and squad. And who would want to come to our place for the first ever play off game in TFC history with players like De Ro hell bent on winning?

Like Flatpicker said, I am excited to see the impact Preki has here.

ua-kozak_TFC
11-19-2009, 02:18 PM
give me a freaking break... are you kidding "Death of exciting attacking" soccer? I think for something to die... FIRST it has to EXIST....an exciting and attacking soccer are not the adjectives that i would use to describe toronto's play in the last 3 seasons.

playing well... is just a bonus... as long as you win i don;t care if you play atractive or not... first win... then think about atractive and exciting football...

I can;t believe we are having this conversation...

__wowza
11-19-2009, 02:18 PM
I agree 100% victory over anything..

but I would bet cash that these boards will be filled with whining if we start using 4 man defense + JDG as man marker with a single striker "attack". Greece I thought had an incredible run at Euro 2004, yet every color (non-Greek) fan was whining and bitching about their style (it won them the EURO remember?). Oh and they just finished knocking out my team (Ukraine) out of WC, the bastards (they were playing 5 defenders at HOME)

Win at any cost, should be our motto. Instead of All for One..


my point exactly. as much as people complained about the greek style of play they wore their opponents down to the point where their counter attack would be lethal (unfortunately they, like us, had an issue finishing).

in terms of putting his foot down, i think he's just the man we need to address the "passion" issue, which is why i think any claims of flair players (someone named DeRo) would be in trouble. not only do i not think DeRo is flashy at the expense of the rest of the team, but i doubt that preki would ever think he wasn't one of the most invested players on the team. look at the mans face whenever we mess up, he gets scarborough pissed.

Pookie
11-19-2009, 02:45 PM
Let's not forget that tactics can change from game to game or even half to half.

I like the idea that we have a coach that can play a shut down style if we get a lead. One who can play a sound defensive style with inexperienced players if and when the regulars go down to injury or international duty.

RedsYNWA
11-19-2009, 02:45 PM
------s------
---AM--AM---
---DM--DM---
LB-CB-CB-CB-RB

That would be a fortress

Brooker
11-19-2009, 02:52 PM
give a freaking break... are you kidding "Death of exciting attacking" soccer? I think for something to die... FIRST it has to EXIST....aexciting and attacking soccer are not the adjectives that i would use that i would use to describe toronto's play in the last 3 season.

playing well... is just a bonus... as long as you win i i don;t care if you play atractive or not... first win... then think about atractive and exciting football...

I can;t believe we are having this conversation...

+11111111111111111111111

xj Darrell
11-19-2009, 02:53 PM
With Preki I am hopeful of getting a balanced, committed group of players who can both attack and defend at the right times - not one or the other (or in TFC's case neither)

We did play allot of exciting football though - if by exciting you mean having a heart attack during the last 15 min of every game...

Super
11-19-2009, 02:55 PM
I agree that results speak louder than beautiful, attacking football. However, I hope that we're not going to play anti-football. I'd hate to see us promote that sort of football. However, I doubt that will be the case. It's still the MLS, and mistakes are made more frequently here than in the top leagues we're used to watching - so you can't play a 90 minute game with 11 players behind the ball and hope to come away with anything. Ah, well, such a long time till the new season.

Marco2K
11-19-2009, 03:15 PM
Preki sounds like he is gonna be tough. The Starting 11 are gonna have to work very hard!!

TFCtoMUFC
11-19-2009, 03:16 PM
I agree with everything the OP is saying. I almost fell asleep during the Chivas away game it was that boring.

KdotOdot
11-19-2009, 03:19 PM
SRBIJA
SRBIJA

Bout time we got a coach thats wiling to cleff these fools on the back of the head every once in a while!!

trane
11-19-2009, 03:30 PM
I agree with everything the OP is saying. I almost fell asleep during the Chivas away game it was that boring.

Are you going to tell me that SAF is not a defensive/tactical minded coach? Yes his team is attacking, but is it no build like almost every other great European side, by being solid in your own end?

Hitcho
11-19-2009, 03:56 PM
RedsYNWA - I think that's called parking the bus mate!

jabbronies
11-19-2009, 03:59 PM
he really does remind me of mourinho...attitude wise.

druid
11-19-2009, 04:31 PM
If Preki can bring good defence to TFC it could be a gift to last beyond his term here.

It's the sort of thing we should have been trying to accomplish in year one.

Whoop
11-19-2009, 04:36 PM
Which I never understood.

One of the easiest ways to get results is to play defensive football.

But either the players found it too hard to play or they lacked the intelligence to do so.

zeelaw
11-19-2009, 04:37 PM
Let's just fucking win

denime
11-19-2009, 04:39 PM
SRBIJA
SRBIJA

Bout time we got a coach thats wiling to cleff these fools on the back of the head every once in a while!!


It Preki time boys :smash::smash: :D

Darlofletch
11-19-2009, 05:00 PM
------s------
---AM--AM---
---DM--DM---
LB-CB-CB-CB-RB

That would be a fortress

well, we'd need to sign a solid lb, a solid rb, and at least one solid cb, then pray none of them ever get injured, and then yes, it would be a fortress.

Shaughno
11-19-2009, 05:04 PM
well, we'd need to sign a solid lb, a solid rb, and at least one solid cb, then pray none of them ever get injured, and then yes, it would be a fortress.

Fellinga is a natural LB. There's one taken care of. Find Garcia a new home and line up his replacement beside Nana and Serioux. Add Marvell Wynne covering the right wing (and teach him how to tactically mark on the wing).

Cronin and Sanyang as the DM's.

JDG and DeRo as the AM's.

Add in a goal scorer (O'Brien???) and you've got one solid MLS squad.

trane
11-19-2009, 05:07 PM
^ What do you think of Gomez?

Shaughno
11-19-2009, 05:09 PM
I like him, maybe he'll be ready to step up next year... but I think he needs experience before he becomes a Starting XI player...

canadian_bhoy
11-19-2009, 05:35 PM
Style is important. I hope Preki does well, but I still fail to see how one of Mo's men is going to fix a locker room that clearly has issues with the Director of Soccer.

As for style - one of the greats said it best:

"There is not a prouder man on God's Earth than me at this moment. Winning was important, aye, but it was the way that we have won that has filled me with satisfaction. We did it by playing football. Pure, beautiful, inventive football. There was not a negative thought in our heads. Inter played right into our hands; it's so sad to see such gifted players shackled by a system that restricts their freedom to think and to act. Our fans would never accept that sort of sterile approach. Our objective is always to try to win with style."
(Jock Stein, 1967)

trane
11-19-2009, 05:43 PM
^ I undestand that, and this is not meant as an attack, on Celtic, I just managed them to a CL and SPL title. But Machiavelli said something like "just win, baby win " or something like that.

ensco
11-19-2009, 05:48 PM
Style issue is bigger than TFC.

There are only two teams in MLS that play with flair - Columbus and Seattle. Even for them, it's only intermittent.

I've watched quite a few Brazilian games on GolTV, and they don't show the style you'd expect either. Too much showboating by guys trying to get noticed. CCC games have more flair.

"Style" is a funny thing. But it definitely starts with possession football. Best I can tell, Preki does play possession football. So we shouldn't rush to judgment.

Petor
11-19-2009, 05:49 PM
I expect to see TFC do well in grinding out wins and ties enough to advance to the MLS playoffs and push into the CCL beyond the first round. However, don't be under any illusions, the coming of Preki is the death of "exciting, attractive soccer" in Toronto.

I watched the playoff match between Chivas and L.A., if he can get us to play "non exciting" footy like that I'll be very happy. That was one of the best MLS matches that I have ever watched. Both teams played like there was no tomorrow, March Madness like. :)

Derko
11-19-2009, 05:58 PM
As long as TFC Win..............no one should care.

Results are #1.......

I totaly agree, I thought this post was about Preki's tactics not to bash MoJo. whom has drafted some very good players. My advice is to leave the Tactics to Preki. And if TFC start winning 1-0 consistently we will have a post season, agreed!!

CretanBull
11-19-2009, 06:10 PM
Style is important. I hope Preki does well, but I still fail to see how one of Mo's men is going to fix a locker room that clearly has issues with the Director of Soccer.

A little piece of me died when in the press conference when Preki said that he and Mo spoke and that some players would be staying and some players would be going. Preki doesn't know any of them - hasn't even met any of them and decisions have already been made about who stays and who goes. Anyone who thought that Preki was going to have the freedom (or power) to dictate things his own way has to recognize what others have been saying from the begining...Preki hasn't been brought in because he's a tough, no-nonsense coach who's gonna fight the good fight etc. He's been brought in because he's Mo's guy.

james
11-19-2009, 06:23 PM
I remember ONE game of exciting attacking soccer. We stopped playing long ball for just long enough to register a 4-0 win.

That's the ONLY time, in three fucking years, that I was excited by the actual level of play on the pitch from our team. Even 6-1 in Montreal, was the game exciting? Yeah, more because of what was on the line rather than the actual level of play, but I'll give you two games... I'm being nice here.

All I ask for at this point, is a team that plays... *gasp* as a team and grinds out results when they are needed. Our stats for goals against in the final 15 minutes of the game, are absolutely disgusting. Our play this season was abysmal at best, aside from a few spotty glimpses of decent football.

i believe that was against Dallas!

ensco
11-19-2009, 06:27 PM
A little piece of me died when in the press conference when Preki said that he and Mo spoke and that some players would be staying and some players would be going. Preki doesn't know any of them - hasn't even met any of them and decisions have already been made about who stays and who goes. Anyone who thought that Preki was going to have the freedom (or power) to dictate things his own way has to recognize what others have been saying from the begining...Preki hasn't been brought in because he's a tough, no-nonsense coach who's gonna fight the good fight etc. He's been brought in because he's Mo's guy.

I think you're reading too much into that statement. He didn't say that any decisions had been made.

Of course he knows most of the players, he coached against them. Of course there'll be changes. New coach, missed playoffs, etc....

It was an innocuous thing to say.

Super
11-19-2009, 06:33 PM
Preki doesn't strike me as the sort of guy who will allow anyone to push him around.

Oldtimer
11-19-2009, 06:35 PM
I think you're reading too much into that statement. He didn't say that any decisions had been made.

Of course he knows most of the players, he coached against them. Of course there'll be changes. New coach, missed playoffs, etc....

It was an innocuous thing to say.

Exactly. It's an obvious statement: a new coach brings changes,

People are getting paranoid around here.

gtaguy
11-19-2009, 06:47 PM
lets give this guy a chance ....
We all know that we have given 2 other coaches chances and both didn't have MLS experience.. Now we have a guy with that experience and were already blasting his tactical style before he even begins is just ridiculous.

six games into the new season we well have a better idea of what he's looking for from the players and the style he's expecting to play ..

jloome
11-19-2009, 06:48 PM
He's been brought in because he's Mo's guy.

Maybe true. But that doesn't mean he IS Mo's guy.

Chivas didn't want him to leave because of his fractious relationships with players, despite suggestions to that end. They wanted him gone because he kept telling the board what the thought of their mandated signings and interference, and for their insistence in the long-run on building a Mexican or mexican-american squad.

Those are exactly the same kind of fears people here have with respect to Mo.

My one fear is that he'll remember the young Nick Garcia from Kansas City, not the shameless wreck who played (I use the term loosely) for us last year.

Ontario Arab
11-19-2009, 06:50 PM
I like this guy already.......I will expect some defensive signings then.

rocker
11-19-2009, 06:53 PM
I hope some players (a few, not a lot) are moved out a.s.a.p. I don't want to have Preki wait 5 games with the current squad just to see if any changes need to be made. Most of us already know who needs to go and who should stay. I hope Preki provides advice on who to steal from other teams.

gtaguy
11-19-2009, 07:04 PM
I hope some players (a few, not a lot) are moved out a.s.a.p. I don't want to have Preki wait 5 games with the current squad just to see if any changes need to be made. Most of us already know who needs to go and who should stay. I hope Preki provides advice on who to steal from other teams.


your absolutely right i do agree that we need some cleaning house going on .. I was referring to waiting some games after he's done some house cleaning of how he implements his tactics with a renewed squad...

for one garcia needs to be out of the picture entirely... I see garcia back and :facepalm:..

ag futbol
11-19-2009, 07:19 PM
I think this monkier is BS. As a whole MLS isn't very exciting soccer .. compared to most teams Chivas plays a pretty good brand of football.

You hear him talk, he says he wants everybody to be comfortable on the ball and be comfortable passing the ball. That facilitates a good style of play compared to a lot of teams in this league who are basically just tackling tough and pounding the channels ....zzzzzz

Nuvinho
11-19-2009, 07:23 PM
I figure we have seen the last of Amado?

Gixmo
11-19-2009, 07:29 PM
I figure we have seen the last of Amado?

I'll agree...

torfchamilton
11-19-2009, 08:29 PM
I actually enjoyed watching Chivas. The played a good system, and when Galindo was fit, they had a threat up front, especially with Razov a few years ago. We have all cried about our lack of a tactical coach. I think Preki will do well. He will get the most out of the players and hopefully bring some in. As all of you have said, we never have played attractive football other than a few spells or games.

Remember Nagamura in TO, everybody wanted to get rid of him and when he went to Chivas he was a mainstay.

rocker
11-19-2009, 09:19 PM
I actually enjoyed watching Chivas. The played a good system, and when Galindo was fit, they had a threat up front, especially with Razov a few years ago. We have all cried about our lack of a tactical coach. I think Preki will do well. He will get the most out of the players and hopefully bring some in. As all of you have said, we never have played attractive football other than a few spells or games.

Remember Nagamura in TO, everybody wanted to get rid of him and when he went to Chivas he was a mainstay.

ya Nagamura seemed like nothing here... then he played a key role for Preki. Just an example of his comment today at the press conference about how it's not about individuals, but the system. TFC has always had a collection of individuals.

Blizzard
11-19-2009, 09:50 PM
I actually enjoyed watching Chivas. The played a good system, and when Galindo was fit, they had a threat up front, especially with Razov a few years ago. We have all cried about our lack of a tactical coach. I think Preki will do well. He will get the most out of the players and hopefully bring some in. As all of you have said, we never have played attractive football other than a few spells or games.

Remember Nagamura in TO, everybody wanted to get rid of him and when he went to Chivas he was a mainstay.

Everybody wanted to get rid of him? He played all of four games here only one of which was at BMO.

I shudder to think that people had made up their minds about him after only four games.

As I'm sure you remember, Nagamura was traded for Amado Guevara, a deal that would have been a beauty for us except that Amado refused to come. Instead, we got a first round draft pick.

BTW, Nagamura wanted to leave. We certainly didn't dump him!

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2007/05/04/toronto-chivas.html

brad
11-19-2009, 09:57 PM
My one fear is that he'll remember the young Nick Garcia from Kansas City, not the shameless wreck who played (I use the term loosely) for us last year.

Not a chance. He'll analyzing match videos, and if he makes that mistake after seeing Garcia, well, we'd be better with Mo coaching again...

brad
11-19-2009, 10:04 PM
If we start grinding out 1-0 wins, playing at least a semi-competent brand of football (no long ball, no 15 minute heart-stopping defensive scrambles to end every game), I doubt many people will be complaining about how it ain't pretty.

ag futbol
11-19-2009, 10:41 PM
Add Marvell Wynne covering the right wing (and teach him how to tactically mark on the wing).

MLS teams have been trying that for about 5 years now no?

I think he'll be an early but expected casualty of a technically minded coach.

James17930
11-19-2009, 11:34 PM
I think maybe Preki might be what Wynne needs to blossom. If we can sign a good RW and Preki can get everyone believing in the system, then Wynne can stay at home more, and maybe that will help him defend better since he won't be asked to cover so much more ground on the field.

Whoop
11-19-2009, 11:48 PM
So if Mo/MLS somehow got Nicol to come to TFC he would not be Mo's guy?

Sounds like the people who aren't happy with the Preki signing wanted Nicol.

Hell, I just wanted a coach.

Mo ain't leaving. So whoever he hired would be "his guy".

ag futbol
11-19-2009, 11:50 PM
I dunno .. I'd strongly have my doubts he could ever be reformed. Sometimes Wynne is out of position because he's extending himself to make a run ... others he's just out of position because he's mentally three steps behind. He's also severly limited in terms of his technical ability.

Very likable guy (one of my favorites on the roster, comes across as a real person) but I think i've got the same opinion Bruce Arena had.

Oldtimer
11-20-2009, 07:56 AM
A good defensive coach could even make Nick Garcia look good. Look what Limniatiis did with Adam Braz.

rocker
11-20-2009, 09:35 AM
So if Mo/MLS somehow got Nicol to come to TFC he would not be Mo's guy?
Mo ain't leaving. So whoever he hired would be "his guy".

Also, Mo knows a lot of people in this league from playing and coaching in it... so just about anybody good he could hire would know Mo pretty well. It's a pretty small world in MLS ranks. Nicol, Preki, Arena, Bob Bradley... these are all good coaches who know Mo well. In many ways, the fact that Mo is friends with these guys probably has gotten us players in the past, and would Preki have signed so quickly (without considering open positions at other teams) if he didn't have a relationship with Mo?

Zeke_Jones
11-20-2009, 11:59 AM
If you want exciting attacking football with results put Europeans and South Americans on the pitch.

Dont blame the coach for the players lack of skill and flair, the coach is only there to make sure they follow a system and dont blow the leads at the end of the game like TFC has been doing since the beginning.

Section 117
11-20-2009, 12:16 PM
Guys in the end all I care about are wins....

Winning makes everything ok, but I can guarentee if with the wins certain people on this board will still be unhappy

Zeke_Jones
11-20-2009, 12:27 PM
I never went to a TFC match and expected to see a premier league or La Liga type of game, what made it exciting was the atmosphere and the fact that I was cheering on my hometown.