Today's News,Thursday,Nov.05

[denime]

Mornin'


Anselmi has lost the plot (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/james-on-soccer/anselmi-has-lost-the-plot/article1351410/)


The Kick about: Beckham Bends Rules and Laws (http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20091104&content_id=7618770&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280)


Relocation Event Next Week (http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20091104&content_id=7616118&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280)



SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/)

[Hustle]

Mornin D,

Paul James gets it right again.

[keem-o-sabi]

coed 1 (http://coedmagazine.com/category/girls/daily-snapshot-girls-2/) and 2 (http://coedmagazine.com/category/girls/miss-coed/)

[rocker]

Mornin D,

Paul James gets it right again.

Paul James better stay away from Chris Cummins' wife after that "inadequate coaching" line ;)

[Oldtimer]

This year the club renewed 96% of season seats, so options will be limited and there is no guarantee that your preferred area will be available.After all the protests on this board, one would have thought the renewal rate would not have been higher than 85%. It shows how unrepresentative of the average TFC fan, and even the average supporter that many posters on this board are.

4% of 16,000 is 640. That means 15,360 renewed. With 17,000 on the waiting list (which means 34,000 potential tickets, on average), that means only 1.9% of the waiting list will get tix. If you say that half of those 34,000 potential tickets won't actually take up the offer, it means that 3.8% of those actually willing will get tix. That equals a 26 year waiting list.

[Nodoubtguy]

After all the protests on this board, one would have thought the renewal rate would not have been higher than 85%. It shows how unrepresentative of the average TFC fan, and even the average supporter that many posters on this board are.

4% of 16,000 is 640. That means 15,360 renewed. With 17,000 on the waiting list (which means 34,000 potential tickets, on average), that means only 1.9% of the waiting list will get tix. If you say that half of those 34,000 potential tickets won't actually take up the offer, it means that 3.8% of those actually willing will get tix. That equals a 26 year waiting list.

I think the renewal rate is that high because at the time of renewal, we still had playoff aspirations. Had the team been out of the picture before, I could see the rate drop to about 90-92%, but don't think it would have gone lower then that.

[Beach_Red]

Most of what Anselmi says it just standard corporate-speak, which shouldn't surprise anyone. Lines like, "but sometimes young guys have to lose together so that they can learn how to win together," is just that standard cliche, "You have to lose a championship to win a championship," which we hear all the time. And actually we've seen it happen a lot. It may not work for New England, but it's quite common for a team to have some heartbreaking championship loss before winning one.

And this inistence that, "fans must be heard," gets repeated but there is quite a bit of evidence in this city that fans are listened to - they just don't always say the things that lead to winning.

You can be sure if having some fan representation on the board helps sell merchandise or increase the bottom line, MLSE will have it soon enough. Whether it leads to any more winning in this city will be interesting to see.

[Mark in Ottawa]

After all the protests on this board, one would have thought the renewal rate would not have been higher than 85%. It shows how unrepresentative of the average TFC fan, and even the average supporter that many posters on this board are.

4% of 16,000 is 640. That means 15,360 renewed. With 17,000 on the waiting list (which means 34,000 potential tickets, on average), that means only 1.9% of the waiting list will get tix. If you say that half of those 34,000 potential tickets won't actually take up the offer, it means that 3.8% of those actually willing will get tix. That equals a 26 year waiting list.
The waiting list is a fantasy story.
How many names on it are duplicates?

How many are scalpers pretending to be companies to grab tickets and keep demand up?

How many are people attracted by the price of the lower end tickets who could never and will never be able to afford expensive seats when they become available and offered to them?

How many were people who rushed to sign up early on who now see the ticket prices increasing year after year and going out of their reach?

How many are people who if asked today would simply request that their names be removed from the list for any variety of reasons?

The waiting list numbers are interesting reading but fall into the area of...
"Lies, Damn lies and Statistics".

[Auzzy]

^^ Add to that: how many signed onto the "red" waiting list just before the Real Madrid game in order to get earlier access to tickets and """""""""""loyalty""""""""""" pricing for that one game? (Yes that was possible.)

[Oldtimer]

The only fantasy is that your average fan cares as much as those posting on the board.

Most people I talked to didn't expect TFC in the playoffs. If people had known for sure that TFC wasn't going to make it, maybe you would have lost another 10-20 renewals, but not more than that. The playoffs per se don't really mean that much for the average fan. It's not like we were ever contending for the MLS Cup. Playoffs in themselves only mean an extra game or two.

So let's say that 660 (640 + 20) didn't renew and an unlikely 90% of the waiting list was bogus. That still leaves 3400 seats wanted for 660 seats. That's a 5 year waiting list.

[C.Ronaldo]

people dont want to lose their spot incase MLSE builds a real team

same with condo ownership, just in case Toronto magically becomes a world class city.

[v00d00daddy]

Most people I talked to didn't expect TFC in the playoffs.


Really? When did you speak to them? With two weeks to go in the season or did they say this to you at the start of the season?

Most people I spoke to at the start of the season said the exact opposite...including most people I heard from at the club.

Playoffs were definitely a goal prior to the start of this season.


If people had known for sure that TFC wasn't going to make it, maybe you would have lost another 10-20 renewals, but not more than that. The playoffs per se don't really mean that much for the average fan.

I suspect that the 10-20 number would have been much higher if the season ticket renewal date was at the conclusion of the season, as opposed to a couple weeks prior.

Out of curiostiy...what does mean that much to the "average" fan, if not the teams success?

[Beach_Red]

Out of curiostiy...what does mean that much to the "average" fan, if not the teams success?




Well, going by the way they're spinning it with the Leafs these days, "moral victories," and "hard work," counts for an awful lot in this city. At least MLSE thinks so (and when it comes to old-time Leafs fans they may be reading them right, sadly).

[maninb]

people dont want to lose their spot incase MLSE builds a real team

same with condo ownership, just in case Toronto magically becomes a world class city.


Toronto already is a world-class city...sports teams not-withstanding....by 2014 TO will pass Chicago and only be smaller than NYC & LA....Best restaurants anywhere in NA with perhaps the exception of NYC, and the most multi-cultural city in the WORLD!!!! And finally we're building a world-class transit system...."not world class"???? You haven't got a clue...

[Oldtimer]

Really? When did you speak to them? With two weeks to go in the season or did they say this to you at the start of the season?



At renewal time, which is what we are discussing.

[Oldtimer]

The problem is that when you discuss with the small percentage of TFC fans who are on this board (say 100 post actively, that is 0.5% of TFC fans), you end up with "group think." You feel that everyone feels the way that you do.

I've talked with the people beside me, who are not part of a SG, and many others who are not part of a SG.

[v00d00daddy]

At renewal time, which is what we are discussing.

Ahh...okay. So most people you were talking to didn't expect another "miracle in Montreal?"

It sure didn't sound that way on these boards in the days/weeks leading up to the end of the year.

The mere fact that the club requested renewals at the time they did is "fishy" at best and down right "bastardly" at worst.

And we...all the while...renew our Season's seats, sit back idly while Mo enjoys a renewal and even go so far as spending more of our money for a "meet and greet" with the team.

Hilarious.

We get what we deserve. So much for that "we deserve" banner.

Sorry for the rant. :)

[v00d00daddy]

The problem is that when you discuss with the small percentage of TFC fans who are on this board (say 100 post actively, that is 0.5% of TFC fans), you end up with "group think." You feel that everyone feels the way that you do.

I've talked with the people beside me, who are not part of a SG, and many others who are not part of a SG.


Umm...the people that I've spoken to who are a part of the 99.5% of people that you speak of have been WAY MORE critical of this team and the results than 0.5% associated more closely with the club.

They're the ones who will start walking away before anyone else because they're not all wrapped up in the supporter culture.

They, for the most part, want to come to BMO throughout the summer and watch a team that is going to compete and represent their city and country well, and they're not getting that.

Renewals will go down...in fact, I have a feeling that the club is lying about that 96% renewal number.

Mo has 2 more years at the helm. If they're anything like the first 3....it could be the start of something really ugly.

If it's not hockey...Toronto fans are very fickle. Peform/Win/Improve or they'll stay home.

[Oldtimer]

So what I'm saying is that dreams of glory didn't motivate people to renew.

96% renewal is pretty solid. We're fooling ourselves if we think that TFC management has gotten any kind of "message" that people are unhappy, apart from 100 ranters on this board.

[Oldtimer]

Renewals will go down...in fact, I have a feeling that the club is lying about that 96% renewal number.


Well, I don't trust MoJo, but I'm not about to put on the tinfoil hat about renewal numbers.

in fact, your post shows exactly what I'm saying. People will believe what they chose to believe, never mind the facts.

WE try to warn the club that fans are very fickle because we want so much to see a winning team. However, they (MLSE) won't be seeing that. Four years is long enough to prove a trend.

[Beach_Red]

If it's not hockey...Toronto fans are very fickle. Peform/Win/Improve or they'll stay home.




A lot of it depends on the quality of the league. Toronto isn't a minor league city. Last year the Marlies went deep into the playoffs but they couldn't sell any tickets - even for a game seven, even in a "hockey" town.

If MLS continue to grow and become better, Torontonians will support a team in the league. If not, then support will return to Lynx levels.

[Marco2K]

coed 1 (http://coedmagazine.com/category/girls/daily-snapshot-girls-2/) and 2 (http://coedmagazine.com/category/girls/miss-coed/)
damn number 2 is so damn SEXY~~

[TFC Tifoso]

Paul James tells no lies.......that article deserves its own thread.....

[dupont]

Toronto already is a world-class city...sports teams not-withstanding....by 2014 TO will pass Chicago and only be smaller than NYC & LA....Best restaurants anywhere in NA with perhaps the exception of NYC, and the most multi-cultural city in the WORLD!!!! And finally we're building a world-class transit system...."not world class"???? You haven't got a clue...

I was thinking the same thing. Love it here.

[werewolf]

Well, going by the way they're spinning it with the Leafs these days, "moral victories," and "hard work," counts for an awful lot in this city. At least MLSE thinks so (and when it comes to old-time Leafs fans they may be reading them right, sadly).

We had one of those games this year, in Montreal. Nothing at the end of the season can be positively attributed to hardwork nor a moral victory. Maybe we should start making commercials of how we are "Canadas Team" like the Jays did, and now the Leafs are doing, or maybe TFC will save that for when there really is trouble in the ticket sales department in a few years.

[massive_magpie]

The problem is that when you discuss with the small percentage of TFC fans who are on this board (say 100 post actively, that is 0.5% of TFC fans), you end up with "group think." You feel that everyone feels the way that you do.

I've talked with the people beside me, who are not part of a SG, and many others who are not part of a SG.

This is exactly it.

[Roogsy]

Toronto already is a world-class city...sports teams not-withstanding....by 2014 TO will pass Chicago and only be smaller than NYC & LA....Best restaurants anywhere in NA with perhaps the exception of NYC, and the most multi-cultural city in the WORLD!!!! And finally we're building a world-class transit system...."not world class"???? You haven't got a clue...


I was with you until the transit system comment.

Everything else, I am in agreement with, but the public transit in this city, for a city of this size, is fairly substandard on a "world class" stage. Not in terms of cleanliness or technology but rather in terms of coverage, availability and effeciency.

Having travelled all parts of this globe, I am fairly confident in this appraisal.

[Whoop]

In total agreement Roogs.

I mean if the transportation system in Toronto was better more people would ride it. Instead the city just makes it more difficult for drivers to drive in the city.

Make the transit system better than maybe you'll get drivers off the road instead of trying to force them off.

[Roogsy]

Case in point...the political system in place at the time thought it was a great idea to put a transit line on Sheppard. For that, I will never forgive Mel Lastman. That was the DUMBEST idea to have ever been made on behalf of the citizens of this city!

There is one severely underserviced area that is screaming for a subway line and that is the Eglinton corridor from Dufferin/Allen Road to the DVP (and perhaps into the Scarborough RT). That should have been priority one and now we may never see it.

The Sheppard Stubway was a waste of billions and was one of several "danglers" that Lastman left from his time in office. That guy was a great salesman for North York but electing him to the Megacity office was a mistake of epic proportions.

[Roogsy]

Another waste of money is the planned express train from downtown to the airport.

We already have one. It's called the Georgetown GoTrain service. You just need to add additional service trains to Malton Go Station.

Then run a shuttlebus from Malton to the Airport and you get pretty much the same service for billions of dollars less.

Politicians don't know how to get things done efficiently.

[Whoop]

Case in point...the political system in place at the time thought it was a great idea to put a transit line on Sheppard. For that, I will never forgive Mel Lastman. That was the DUMBEST idea to have ever been made on behalf of the citizens of this city!

There is one severely underserviced area that is screaming for a subway line and that is the Eglinton corridor from Dufferin/Allen Road to the DVP (and perhaps into the Scarborough RT). That should have been priority one and now we may never see it.

The Sheppard Stubway was a waste of billions and was one of several "danglers" that Lastman left from his time in office. That guy was a great salesman for North York but electing him to the Megacity office was a mistake of epic proportions.

Mel was a helluva of a salesman.

I remember they were building an Eglinton subway line and a Sheppard line and the city had too choose one or the other. And they choose the Sheppard line. :facepalm:

Then there was talk of closing that line but I guess all the Ikea shoppers got them to reconsider.

Having said that public transit in the city is crap and the roads in the city are crap too.

[ag futbol]

^ it's completely embarassing.

When i went to Montreal recently and used their metro for the first time ever i was shocked at how comprehensive it was in comparison. In a city that has WAY less of a population.

TTC's vision = let's extend the yonge line to Barrie !

The way this is brutally mis-managed is already hurting growth around toronto.

[ArmenJBX]

Does the RPB as a supporters group hand out the tickets for the particular section?

Because I'm on the freaking red list for 3 years now, and not once have I been offered anything of value besides the Marlies pack, oh, and let's not forget, the "loyalty pricing" for RM. :D

[tfcleeds]

Eglinton line + Downtown Relief Line = Toronto's transit system being that much closer to being considered "world class".

[darb]

Eglinton line + Downtown Relief Line = Toronto's transit system being that much closer to being considered "world class".

Add automated fare collection, right-of-way for all rail-based surface routes, multiple fare zones, time-based transfers, completely new set of non-unionized operators, and (why not) a monorail while we're at it and it WILL be "world class".

[Roogsy]

Add automated fare collection, right-of-way for all rail-based surface routes, multiple fare zones, time-based transfers, completely new set of non-unionized operators, and (why not) a monorail while we're at it and it WILL be "world class".

^ Exactly.

How we don't have automated fare collection yet is mind-boggling. That is 15 year old technology!

I bet we save a ton on $100k fare collectors.

[ThunderTundra]

damn number 2 is so damn SEXY~~

She's unreal!

[TFCUNITED]

In my opinion, they should expand the subway west to square 1 in Mississauga. That would could down on traffic coming into and out of the city and plus in 2014 when they expand the subway north into Vaughn. Three major malls (there are other malls but don't want to list them) will be connected: Square 1, Eaton's Centre, and Vaughn Mills. People who don't have cars or want to avoid traffic can visit all three malls in a single day (unless the shopper is female and wants to spend all day just trying on shoes let alone any clothes).