PDA

View Full Version : The TorontoFC.ca article has prompted to write a little something...



ua-kozak_TFC
10-29-2009, 09:50 AM
I think there is a problem with the distinction of supporter no mater what... I think mostly its because people don;t realize what defines a supporter...

Now for some reason a lot of people think athat NOT being happy about your team... and what is happening around them and how they are managed... means that you aer somehow disrespecting, and not being supporter.. And somehow you;ll just because of the BAD result that you will just STOP following the team all of a sudden and not care how they DO... I think for most of the people if not ALL who come to this board and are associated with TFC supporter or season ticket holder is not the case. Just because you are not happy where this team is going... we are not going to shut off our computers and just ignore all information about TFC until... they start winning... NO. All of us we will still check the website in the off season, mls rumours, and the redpatch boys few times a day going to watch those insignificant friendlies that we often loose in the offseason to hear news about this team... and care about who other trialist who's name we can barely pronounce, lets not even talk about recognizing it. That is being a SUPPORTER...
Although you know that the team is rotten and in bad situation you still care and what to know what is happening to them... THAT does not mean that all of sudden that the team is in a bad shape we'll start following MOntreal Impacts or Vancouver or whatever...
HENCE UNHAPPYNESS DOESN't EQUAL TREASON....
And for some reason that is what i feel its implyied.. too often by a lot of people on this board and specially by this article...
And that for some reason DO BE a SUPPORTER... IMPLIES FAKING HAPPINESS and just deny or ignore the bad things. Although pessims for no reason is never good ( I consider myself the most optimistic person you could find)... Yet Sometimes you have to be objective and at a point and and if you have to point out rthe bad things as what they are ...and being positive in that situation... becomes just fooling yourself. And doesn;t really help.


THAT said let me clarifysomething, and correct me if i am wrong.. But i believe i speak for many supporters when i say this.
UNHAPPINESS/CRITISISM DOESN:T MEAN YOU ARE NOT A SUPPORTER.
BY THE SAME TOKEN
HAPPYNESS/OPTIMISM DOESN:T MEAN YOU ARE MORE OF A SUPPORTER "BECAUSE YOU SUPPORT THE TEAM THROUGH THICK AND THIN."

ALSO I think both of the fans who are "anti MO" and those who are willing to give him more time or "for MO" (since there has been a clear division) ARE SUPPORTING THE team THROUGH THICK and thin... And being on this board and caring about what happens prooves that point.

Now both the optimistic and pessimistic views at things can hurt and hinder the progress depending on the situation you are. We just have too look at the past and the record and make an objective decision. From what it seems that many supporters lost confidence in MO/club management... but THAT doesn;t mean they stopped being supporter and even less so doesn;t mean that they are "bandwagonners" for calling things as they are...

Beach_Red
10-29-2009, 10:05 AM
Yes, you're right.

The problem with the article was that it was on an official team website. It's one thing to post that here - and quite appropriate - but for the team to do it, and so obviously in response to a yet another bad ending to a season is what makes it frustrating.

You're right, unhappiness does not equal treason.

trane
10-29-2009, 10:07 AM
^ That was exactly my feeling about that article, very inapropriate for those who take our money, but do not deliver to call any of us disloyal for asking for more.

Parkdale
10-29-2009, 10:09 AM
It was a very poorly timed article.

http://www.mlsnet.com//news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20091028&content_id=7566214&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

link to the article (http://www.mlsnet.com//news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20091028&content_id=7566214&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280)

Roogsy
10-29-2009, 10:11 AM
Another boneheaded move by the organization. I rarely use these but, in this case, it is so appropriate.

:facepalm:

Seriously...chastising your own paying fans. Who thought this would be a great idea days after losing 5-0 and cementing a glorious 12th place finish?

Parkdale
10-29-2009, 10:12 AM
To me the prizbies of the world are reliable people and mature supporters. They understand that being a sports fan and a human being is a lifelong grind that isn't about winning or losing so much as the side you are on. It's about your principles.


yeah, but when the club fucks up (yes, I said it, the club has fucked up) then it's up to the supporters to let them know.

no one is going to support montreal instead of toronto, and that's not the issue.

the issue is simple:



TFC HAS BEEN A FAILURE ON THE FIELD, AND THE SUPPORTERS (AND REAL FANS) ARE SICK OF THE EXCUSES AND LIES

billyfly
10-29-2009, 10:13 AM
The timing (to me) is not that bad b/c its contemporary to the situation.

They wrote it b/c they must have read these boards and think there is open revolt (maybe and maybe not).

The problem is the wound is still fresh so lots of us are taking offense.

TFC Tifoso
10-29-2009, 10:14 AM
I see being a supporter as something akin to being a parent........

You always want the best for your child (team), and sometimes you will get upset at them, very upset, but not because you don't love them.....it is because you feel as though they are capable of accomplising so much more, and want them to maximize potential, and realize that sometimes, it will take a change (ie. fire Mo, get rid of players) to reach that potential.

You never stop loving your kid, much like the team (and by team I mean strictly the badge and the colours).

....and yes it is an extremely poorly timed article......part damage control, and part insulting supporters' intelligence.....

tfcleeds
10-29-2009, 10:17 AM
The timing (to me) is not that bad b/c its contemporary to the situation.

They wrote it b/c they must have read these boards and think there is open revolt (maybe and maybe not).

The problem is the wound is still fresh so lots of us are taking offense.

But if they really understood what the supporter's groups are all about, they would know there is no open revolt.

We are entitled to be a little bit pissed off right now, and articles like this, telling us what we should be and how we should act, do not help.

Parkdale
10-29-2009, 10:18 AM
....and yes it is an extremely poorly timed article......part damage control, and part insulting supporters' intelligence.....


I think they might have thought it would be a good counter point to the actual newspaper articles coming out about the breakup of the locker room. There must have been some reasoning behind releasing the piece, but I really don't know what they would try to prove (other than simply saying 'these colours don't run')

Parkdale
10-29-2009, 10:19 AM
ps. nice avatar TFC Leeds!


'May I take your trident sir?'

TFC Tifoso
10-29-2009, 10:22 AM
I think they might have thought it would be a good counter point to the actual newspaper articles coming out about the breakup of the locker room. There must have been some reasoning behind releasing the piece, but I really don't know what they would try to prove (other than simply saying 'these colours don't run')

possibly, but the problem with that is that newspapers are supposed to be presenting an "unbaised" point of view.....this on the other hand is coming from a team website, with an implied bias....

I don't want a sugarcookie article lecturing me on how to be a supporter.....I already know how........I want the team to say they are committed to making some fucking changes here.

All this article does is further my belief that the team knows nothing about soccer culture or supporters' culture.....

billyfly
10-29-2009, 10:27 AM
But if they really understood what the supporter's groups are all about, they would know there is no open revolt.

We are entitled to be a little bit pissed off right now, and articles like this, telling us what we should be and how we should act, do not help.

Do we really know? Really? How do you judge this?

MLSE is under attack from almost every angle.

Parkdale
10-29-2009, 10:27 AM
All this article does is further my belief that the team knows nothing about soccer culture or supporters' culture.....

I see it slightly different (no surprise there).

I think it shows that they really really want to be 'down' with the supporters, but don't understand that for the most part, supporters and the Clubs themselves are totally independent. It's not the job of the club to make banners and lead chants - save that for the NBA / NFL. Their job is to create a winning squad, and our job is to support than squad (and thank the club when they've done something right). It's two distinct things, and this article says to me that they are trying to straddle the fence.

trane
10-29-2009, 10:31 AM
ps. nice avatar TFC Leeds!


'May I take your trident sir?'


I love that movie. One of my favourite ever. " May I go to the bathroom?"
" Go ahead"-------Steve Martin makes a face which clearly shows he is in fact going to the bathroom "Thanks".

billyfly
10-29-2009, 10:33 AM
^that's the exact scene I remember.

Parkdale
10-29-2009, 10:34 AM
^that's the exact scene I remember.


OKLAHOMA
OKLAHOMAOKLAHOMA
OKLAHOMA
OKLAHOMAOKLAHOMAOKLAHOMA

CoachGT
10-29-2009, 10:36 AM
I see being a supporter as something akin to being a parent........


I'll always love you, but right now, I just don't like you very much.

trane
10-29-2009, 10:36 AM
billyfly,

How can you forget that scene?

TFC Tifoso
10-29-2009, 10:37 AM
I see it slightly different (no surprise there).

I think it shows that they really really want to be 'down' with the supporters, but don't understand that for the most part, supporters and the Clubs themselves are totally independent. It's not the job of the club to make banners and lead chants - save that for the NBA / NFL. Their job is to create a winning squad, and our job is to support than squad (and thank the club when they've done something right). It's two distinct things, and this article says to me that they are trying to straddle the fence.

no, I actually think we are saying the same here in the last part....keep in mind when I say "team" I mean "powers that be within the team".

where we differ is that I don't think this article shows that they want to be "down" with us......it is no more than an attempt at damage control. People take shit on this board all the time with the "Don't tell me how to be a supporter" line....this article dioes nothing different.

and while I agree that our job is to support the squad, I feel VERY STRONGLY that what truly defines a supporter (and what I mean as supporters' culture) is that they also give the team heat when things aren't so good, in order to always try and keep them honest.....once complacentcy sets in, things get fucked.

TFC Tifoso
10-29-2009, 10:40 AM
I'll always love you, but right now, I just don't like you very much.

exactly, and further than that......understanding what it will take in order to see your "child" maximize its potential and be the best it can.

on the converse.....you ever see that parent who is always convinced that their kid can do no wrong no matter what?.......ummm, yeah.......

tfcleeds
10-29-2009, 10:41 AM
I love that movie. One of my favourite ever. " May I go to the bathroom?"
" Go ahead"-------Steve Martin makes a face which clearly shows he is in fact going to the bathroom "Thanks".

Yeah, just watched it again a few nights ago. One of my faves.

Whoop
10-29-2009, 10:55 AM
Wow... who would have thought demanding excellence, accountability - results - would be a bad thing?

And to criticize your fans, be it the hardcore supporters or the "bandwagoners"?

Not only is that a stupid move, that guy should be fired.

trane
10-29-2009, 11:00 AM
My summary of the article, in light of the source;


Keep giving us money, and shut the fuck up

billyfly
10-29-2009, 11:01 AM
billyfly,

How can you forget that scene?

Oh I haven't.

Whoop
10-29-2009, 11:09 AM
My summary of the article, in light of the source;


Keep giving us money, and shut the fuck up

Pretty much it.

First rule of thumb of owning a sports team: Don't criticize your fans in public.

You might be able to treat them as naive or gullible but to be critical of them in public is akin to committing suicide.

I would laugh at would happen if this article was published in regards to Leafs fans.

Are the people at MLSE seriously this f'in stupid?

olegunnar
10-29-2009, 11:12 AM
Are the people at MLSE seriously this f'in stupid?

I think there's a bit of arrogance in terms of who steers the ship. Add to that a gross underestimation of the sophistication of the average supporter...and we get this crap.

Kind of a ...I'll get someone to write a blog about thick and thin....that'll get those teenage internet drunks of the rpb forum banded together and turn their frowns upside down.

Edit to clarify...I'm not calling RPBs names...I'm making an educated guess at the thought process behind publishing an article at this time on the franchise's website

MrHawk
10-29-2009, 11:12 AM
http://www.freewebs.com/rubberduck125/KABOOM.jpg

Super
10-29-2009, 11:17 AM
Wow - just WOW! TFC is truly a nightmare when it comes to public relations. The only, the ONLY, reason why Toronto FC has a positive name in this city is because of its fans creating an atmosphere that is fun and exciting. The play itself has been far from stellar, and the organization itself is deserving of a no confidence vote. This article is a slap in the face of all of us, and I truly hope to never read an article again on the site from this douchebag. How dare he. How dare they?

Also, the whole "Liverpool brings hardship to any fan" is quite funny when you count the following trophies in the last 10 years:

FA Cup: 2001, 2006
League Cup: 2001, 2003
Charity Shield: 2001, 2006
UEFA Cup: 2001
UEFA Super Cup: 2001, 2005

And, oh, a little trophy from the Champions League: 2005

Add to that the fact that Liverpool is a contender pretty much every year.

No offense to the Liverpool supporters on here - I get the fact that the club has to live up to much higher expectations than the other 99% of clubs in the world, but it's hardly a loser and disappointing organization like TFC on ANY LEVEL.

tfcleeds
10-29-2009, 11:18 AM
Telling members of a supporters group to support the club through thick and thin =

http://www.pinedaconsulting.com/documents/choir.jpg (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0S020o0wOlKa7UAXh6jzbkF/SIG=127cf8gov/EXP=1256919476/**http%3A//www.pinedaconsulting.com/documents/choir.jpg)

The majority of us on here will never abandon the club, but we have a right to be critical and to be vocal in that criticism.

olegunnar
10-29-2009, 11:22 AM
We all know that Paul James and MLSE aren't on each other's Christmas Card list.
That said...the FO should read this passage from his Oct 27th article and take it to heart...because it's bang on.

On the North American soccer landscape ,Toronto is correctly considered a sophisticated, intelligent soccer market. This has so far worked well for the MLSE brass. Patience in soccer fans, though, is very limited and especially if they get the feeling they are being treated like mugs. Therefore the whole organization, which appears to have the skin of shrimps when it comes to criticism, should prepare themselves for an onslaught. The nice stadium, thoughtful food offerings, and beer tents are all well and good. But to fuel the enthusiastic, passionate atmosphere that has been the talk of the town for the past three years, you have to begin to produce on the field.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/tfc-supporters-wont-stand-for-failure-forever/article1339528/

BakaGaijin
10-29-2009, 11:23 AM
I find it comical that Asif calls himself a die-hard Liverpool supporter.........isn't it die-hard Liverpool supporters who are trying to get rid of Gilette and Hicks as the teams owners?!?

I guess this means that Asif would support an uprising to overthrow MSLE.....when that time finally come.

What a douche.

Super
10-29-2009, 11:27 AM
I find it comical that Asif calls himself a die-hard Liverpool supporter.........isn't it die-hard Liverpool supporters who are trying to get rid of Gilette and Hicks as the teams owners?!?

LOL great point. I wonder what Asif would feel about us pushing for MLSE to hand TFC over to another owner. Or would this effect his pay?

FluSH
10-29-2009, 11:29 AM
I stopped reading this after the 2nd paragraph... I'll probably go home... cool down... read it and then post my comments...

TFC Tifoso
10-29-2009, 11:31 AM
no need to read it......trane has it covered....


Keep giving us money, and shut the fuck up

Beach_Red
10-29-2009, 11:32 AM
We all know that Paul James and MLSE aren't on each other's Christmas Card list.
That said...the FO should read this passage from his Oct 27th article and take it to heart...because it's bang on.

On the North American soccer landscape ,Toronto is correctly considered a sophisticated, intelligent soccer market. This has so far worked well for the MLSE brass. Patience in soccer fans, though, is very limited and especially if they get the feeling they are being treated like mugs. Therefore the whole organization, which appears to have the skin of shrimps when it comes to criticism, should prepare themselves for an onslaught. The nice stadium, thoughtful food offerings, and beer tents are all well and good. But to fuel the enthusiastic, passionate atmosphere that has been the talk of the town for the past three years, you have to begin to produce on the field.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/tfc-supporters-wont-stand-for-failure-forever/article1339528/


This is true. The problem is, they think reacting to criticism is good. And, of course, we want the organization to react to fans' demands, we don't want them to be thick-skinned and unresponsive.

Maybe the problem is the demand is never, "Win a championship." The demand is always, 'get rid of ___,' or 'get us ___,' and so that's what they do. These small appeasements.

It's worked well with Leaf fans for years so, of course, they think it will work here.

pedro
10-29-2009, 11:33 AM
They feared open revolt when there wasn't one. Now, they themselves may have inspired it.

I for one believe that if we think "Mo must go", then we all do something about it. That demonstrates passion, doesn't it? More than buying more jerseys...

Hitcho
10-29-2009, 11:35 AM
I get where Asif is coming from, and the comments that people make along the lines of "win or I'm off" have always infuriated me.

I also recognise that he's writing this as an abstract piece and just commeting on something topical.

The problem is, he's not painted the division clearly enough so it looks like he is having a dig at TFC supporters generally, and he's also done this much too soon after the NY debacle for it to be taken the right way. There's no positive spin at the end, it's just left there like a knife in the back.

Bad move, stupid move, unfair move. I don't actually think he's any good as a writer on the Kickabout, at least not this far (I think he only recently took this on from beign a ticket rep) but this was a particularly short sighted as well as poorly written and awkwardly constructed piece.

Why the fuck is the club publishing stuff like this that acts as a kick in the teeth to supporters and fans after such a horrible and disappointing end to the season? This just isn't the time.

Paul - please get it retracted and have an apology put up instead that makes it abundantly clear Asif wasn't pointing the finger at all TFC fans (except Prizby).

TFC Tifoso
10-29-2009, 11:39 AM
This is true. The problem is, they think reacting to criticism is good. And, of course, we want the organization to react to fans' demands, we don't want them to be thick-skinned and unresponsive.

Maybe the problem is the demand is never, "Win a championship." The demand is always, 'get rid of ___,' or 'get us ___,' and so that's what they do. These small appeasements.

It's worked well with Leaf fans for years so, of course, they think it will work here.

correct. I don't care for getting a certain player, I want a winning team......besides, what GM/Director/whatever in the world gets players based on the supporters' wants?!?! They are supposed to get players that fit the system....problem being that with 3 coaches in 3 years we have no system, so Mo is resorting to throwing us a cookie every once in a while to keep the supporters quiet.

I don't want anybody to react to my demands.....I want a management that is competant enough to realize what it will take to put trophies in the case. Any director who gets players based on what the supporters want should probably forget about it, and just take a seat with them in the bleachers as well.....

Jamaicanadian
10-29-2009, 11:41 AM
That idiot guy can go F himself!
He can take that worthless drivel and cram it where the sun dont shine!
I dont promote blind faith.......

Hitcho
10-29-2009, 11:42 AM
And as for Asif and his "love" for Liverpool, if you'd be willing to turn over your TFC jersey and season tickets to the debt collectors before your precious LFC e-season ticket, then you're in the wrong job and writing for the wrong team.

It kind of makes a mockery of your dig at TFC fans when you stand there and openly admit that you yourself hold another team higher. Hypocrisy, thy name is Asif Hossain.

v00d00daddy
10-29-2009, 11:46 AM
I get where Asif is coming from, and the comments that people make along the lines of "win or I'm off" have always infuriated me.



Okay. Here is the disconnect.

Where are all these comments that say "win or I'm off"? Show them to me. One guy from Buffalo who said something while very pissed off? Where are all these bandwagon jumpers?

Personally I think that there are very, very few of them. Very few people who feel that way or say that sort of thing.

The problem arises when people hear "This team sucks. Things need to change" and it magically turns into "win or I'm off".

How does this happen? It's happened to the mope who wrote this blog and it happens to a bunch of the super duper "i'm a better supporter than you" types all over this board.

Seriously. Why do people think that these two very different sentiments mean the same thing?

Rudi
10-29-2009, 11:50 AM
Telling members of a supporters group to support the club through thick and thin =

http://www.pinedaconsulting.com/documents/choir.jpg (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0S020o0wOlKa7UAXh6jzbkF/SIG=127cf8gov/EXP=1256919476/**http%3A//www.pinedaconsulting.com/documents/choir.jpg)

The majority of us on here will never abandon the club, but we have a right to be critical and to be vocal in that criticism.
Eh?

Did I miss the part where this blog entry was directed at the supporters groups?

I know he used comments on here as inspiration, but how many times have I read that this board does not actually represent the RPB point of view? I mean, it actually says as much in the subheading.

How many of us deride those idiots who post stupid shit like "I'm going to stop supporting this team" after a loss? That's who this piece is aimed at, not us.

I told Asif personally yesterday that his article was cheeky and probably not the best idea given that he writes on the official site and not some random blog, but the spirit of what he wrote is no different that I've seen parroted at every single TFC board I've read.

billyfly
10-29-2009, 11:56 AM
^ I agree with Rudi. I think people are freaking out a bit too much.

tfcleeds
10-29-2009, 11:57 AM
Eh?

Did I miss the part where this blog entry was directed at the supporters groups?

I know he used comments on here as inspiration, but how many times have I read that this board does not actually represent the RPB point of view? I mean, it actually says as much in the subheading.

How many of us deride those idiots who post stupid shit like "I'm going to stop supporting this team" after a loss? That's who this piece is aimed at, not us.

I told Asif personally yesterday that his article was cheeky and probably not the best idea given that he writes on the official site and not some random blog, but the spirit of what he wrote is no different that I've seen parroted at every single TFC board I've read.

I can only assume we are part of the intended audience for his piece, given he quoted a supporter's group message board. If it wasn't directed at us, fair enough, but what most people have said regarding the article still applies.

billyfly
10-29-2009, 11:59 AM
People that frequent the board and the Supporters Groups are two different things.

Yes, people may associate that he is speaking to "us" b/c he quotes things on this board but what Rudi is saying (if I may Rudi) is that we know the difference.

Parkdale
10-29-2009, 12:07 PM
I think people are freaking out a bit too much.


It's what we do.

Rudi
10-29-2009, 12:07 PM
I can only assume we are part of the intended audience for his piece, given he quoted a supporter's group message board. If it wasn't directed at us, fair enough, but what most people have said regarding the article still applies.
I see what you're saying, but I don't get the outright anger by some here, unless they are actually thinking of jumping off the "bandwagon" and Asif hit a little too close to home.

I don't think anyone here (by "here", I mean the active RPBs) is actually seriously considering quitting on the team, so I don't really understand how some are taking it so personally.

We're all coming off an ridiculously emotional letdown. I know I wanted to start tearing down that shithole of a stadium on Saturday. My disdain for the "bandwagoners" that Asif writes about has actually heightened thanks to my own personal grief over the way the season ended, because I know I'll be back next spring, just as I've been there previous three. And I know the true supporters on this board and elsewhere will be right there alongside me.

And yes, billyfly, that's exactly what I was saying.

billyfly
10-29-2009, 12:08 PM
It's what we do.


Yeah.

Super
10-29-2009, 12:09 PM
I can only assume we are part of the intended audience for his piece, given he quoted a supporter's group message board. If it wasn't directed at us, fair enough, but what most people have said regarding the article still applies.

It was most DEFINITELY directed at us. We're the most vocal of all groups - and outside of us who really is talking openly about TFC on a daily basis? The rest of the stadium is more or less comprised of people who do not go on message boards, and who may talk about TFC the day after the game at the water-cooler - but that's about it. Also, like you say, the article mentions members of this very group, and also quotes posts on this very board. It was aimed at us, and a cynical mind may think that he was instructed to write this article to reign us back in the fold - and gain control over the supporters after a DISASTER of a season. Cummins took the fall, but unless Mo is fired they're likely to look forward to 5 months of seriously pissed off supporters.

A failed season is one thing, but the anger is more directed at the lack of faith we have in the organization as a whole. The players deserve better (and they still have our support), too. They deserve a proper coach, and proper management. Mo must go, simple as that - and the organization needs to show a little more respect and appreciation for its supporters, instead of raising our ticket prices.

Parkdale
10-29-2009, 12:12 PM
^ hi super. you make sense. thanks for that!

billyfly
10-29-2009, 12:15 PM
I still don't believe its that dastardly. MLSE offices do not look like this:

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm220/AnnaMollyMadison/Lord%20of%20the%20Rings/theeyeofsauronwithmountdoominthebac.jpg

Rudi
10-29-2009, 12:18 PM
Also, like you say, the article mentions members of this very group, and also quotes posts on this very board.
Wasn't the one quote from this very board about remaining a supporter? The counterpoint to that was some random post on the TFC site itself.

So really, he called RPB true supporters, and the random Buffalo shithead a bandwagon fan.

Is he wrong?

jloome
10-29-2009, 12:19 PM
I think there's a bit of arrogance in terms of who steers the ship. Add to that a gross underestimation of the sophistication of the average supporter...and we get this crap.

Kind of a ...I'll get someone to write a blog about thick and thin....that'll get those teenage internet drunks of the rpb forum banded together and turn their frowns upside down.

Edit to clarify...I'm not calling RPBs names...I'm making an educated guess at the thought process behind publishing an article at this time on the franchise's website

Patronizing and condescending, all at the same time. I think you nailed it.

Super
10-29-2009, 12:28 PM
Wasn't the one quote from this very board about remaining a supporter? The counterpoint to that was some random post on the TFC site itself.

So really, he called RPB true supporters, and the random Buffalo shithead a bandwagon fan.

Is he wrong?

My point is that the source for frustrations and/or support comes from this very forum - as well as the usector forum as well of course. And if this guy felt RPB was a group with positive vibes towards the club right now he most certainly did not read very many posts on here as of late. Also, besides, where else are you going to find supporters vocal about TFC in positive or negative terms? No where! The average Joe who takes his family to the games is not on the board and doesn't talk about this team in his every day life - nor does he probably consider himself a die-hard supporter. The anger right now comes from us, and no doubt TFC considers this a dangerous situation. Again, call me cynical, but this to me is just another bone-headed move by a terribly inept organization with little ability on how to deal with supporters.

But alright, I see your point, and maybe, just maybe, this article was not directed at us - and maybe, just maybe, the intentions of the club is pure at this very moment. However, based on past experience I choose to believe otherwise. I may feel otherwise in a few months - but right now I'm just too angry and disappointed, like most supporters.

TFC Cityboy
10-29-2009, 12:29 PM
Wasn't the one quote from this very board about remaining a supporter? The counterpoint to that was some random post on the TFC site itself.

So really, he called RPB true supporters, and the random Buffalo shithead a bandwagon fan.

Is he wrong?
No he's not wrong in that sense, but as I posted as a comment to Asif, it's a badly-advised piece from the club telling us how to support the team following on from shittin' the bed in NJ.
While none of the true fans are going anywhere, it's badly-timed and in the wrong forum.
Cheers!

nascarguy
10-29-2009, 12:31 PM
well guys just don't sit around and do nothing. Let get to there and do something about it. Think about with out rpb, u-sector & Nee the games at BMO field would be boring as hell and there would be no one at the away game.

Super
10-29-2009, 12:32 PM
Also, the article is written by a guy who works for Toronto FC - and it's about HOW we should support the team. That is what pisses me off the most. Maybe they should start by figuring out how to run a successful club.

king dave
10-29-2009, 12:33 PM
My summary of the article, in light of the source;


Keep giving us money, and shut the fuck up
Right on the $$$ guy!
Instead of someone stepping up and giving a sincere apology to the supporters/fans with a promise of change we get a career TFC/MLSE guy, no offence Asif you were very good as my ticket rep., giving us the old Knute Rockney line about not giving up and continuing the fight.
Hello!?!
I stood in 2 inches of water in a steady hard rain at the Meadowlands last Saturday for over 2 hours with a very large dedicated group of fellow supporters who witnessed other individuals throwing in the towel.
That would be the team and it's management.
So I will not accept anymore bullshite from any FO about quitters and winners.
We support TFC and will continue to, but we demand some accountability and have yet to get any.
KD.

Carefree
10-29-2009, 12:34 PM
Let's see, he started "supporting" Liverpool in 1990. If memory serves me right, that's the year after they won the league for the seventh time in 10 years, as well as the FA cup. And that makes him a true supporter and gives him the right to criticize bandwagoners??? Riiiiiight.

Super
10-29-2009, 12:39 PM
We support TFC and will continue to, but we demand some accountability and have yet to get any.

QFT!!!

TFC Tifoso
10-29-2009, 12:40 PM
Also, the article is written by a guy who works for Toronto FC - and it's about HOW we should support the team. That is what pisses me off the most. Maybe they should start by figuring out how to run a successful club.

exactly! and I don't buy the "article wasn't about the supporters" screen..ok who was it about then?..the broad scope of "TFC fans"?..which is composed partly of................the supporters groups; the people who have been spitting mad since Sautrday night, the subset of the fan who are more vocal in voicing their pleasure and displeasure with the team.

Whichever way you spin it, the intent was to reach the supporters groups.

Rudi
10-29-2009, 12:41 PM
My point is that the source for frustrations and/or support comes from this very forum - as well as the usector forum as well of course. And if this guy felt RPB was a group with positive vibes towards the club right now he most certainly did not read very many posts on here as of late.
I don't think he was explicitly saying that RPB was a group with positive vibes toward the team at the moment. And he definitely wasn't saying that criticism is not justified.

I mean, he wrote the following:

That's not to say there shouldn't be a "reckoning." There is no hiding Toronto's shameful end to the 2009 season. I am certainly not writing to paper over the disaster in East Rutherford. The club was humiliated and changes have already been made and more are on the way.

Supporters should definitely remain vigilant, as they have, and let the club know how they feel in a strong fashion when necessary. The Danny Dichio "Thank You" banner proved there isn't much that TFC supporters aren't capable of. Heavy criticism leveled at the club is part of the contract between the team and its fans when things fall apart in such a spectacular fashion. Criticism is mandatory.


He wouldn't have written that if this was some all-encompassing attempt to placate the supporters (ugh, I feel like that douche living in Newcastle when i type those words).


We all know the difference between justified criticism and stupidity. It manifests itself on the boards every day.



But alright, I see your point, and maybe, just maybe, this article was not directed at us - and maybe, just maybe, the intentions of the club is pure at this very moment. However, based on past experience I choose to believe otherwise. I may feel otherwise in a few months - but right now I'm just too angry and disappointed, like most supporters.
I get that. I'm still fucking numb over the whole experience, being pissed on by both Mother Nature and the team on Saturday was not fun.

billyfly
10-29-2009, 12:42 PM
I think we all need to calm down and watch this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xU9W7Qo1T6M&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xU9W7Qo1T6M&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

olegunnar
10-29-2009, 12:42 PM
I stood in 2 inches of water in a steady hard rain at the Meadowlands last Saturday for over 2 hours with a very large dedicated group of fellow supporters who witnessed other individuals throwing in the towel.
That would be the team and it's management.
So I will not accept anymore bullshite from any FO about quitters and winners.
We support TFC and will continue to, but we demand some accountability and have yet to get any.
KD.

KD you need to be a team leader and have the RPB charter tatooed on your arese.
Then you'd be eligible to be RPB prez.
I'd pay 20 bucks to vote for you.

nascarguy
10-29-2009, 12:47 PM
guys now do not forget that next nov/dec there will be asking us to give them athere 140$ for new team shirt.....lol

Super
10-29-2009, 12:49 PM
He wouldn't have written that if this was some all-encompassing attempt to placate the supporters (ugh, I feel like that douche living in Newcastle when i type those words).

We all know the difference between justified criticism and stupidity. It manifests itself on the boards every day.

I just can't help but feel that this is an article engineered by the club itself - and again, produced to reign in supporters. I would have had a little more respect for the writer had he pointed out the elephant in the room - which is Mo. But he won't. And the reason is that his pay comes from the club itself.

Again, I think TFC should be more concerned about building a winning club instead of telling us what it means to support a club.

billyfly
10-29-2009, 12:52 PM
I stood in 2 inches of water in a steady hard rain at the Meadowlands last Saturday for over 2 hours
KD.[/quote]

Blah! When I was a lad we'd stand in 2 feet of water in a hurricane at school for over 2 days!

king dave
10-29-2009, 12:53 PM
KD you need to be a team leader and have the RPB charter tatooed on your arese.
Then you'd be eligible to be RPB prez.
I'd pay 20 bucks to vote for you.
EMT work for ya?:D
KD.

billyfly
10-29-2009, 12:53 PM
Where is the Kingpin at times like these?

king dave
10-29-2009, 12:55 PM
I stood in 2 inches of water in a steady hard rain at the Meadowlands last Saturday for over 2 hours
KD.

Blah! When I was a lad we'd stand in 2 feet of water in a hurricane at school for over 2 days![/quote]
But at least you came away with an education instead of a sore asshole:)
KD.

king dave
10-29-2009, 12:57 PM
Where is the Kingpin at times like these?
Was discussing that very subject last night!
KD.

billyfly
10-29-2009, 12:57 PM
I hear ya Dave. I thought about you guys there in the rain (in-between the beers and the lovely lasses at Brazenhead)

wzhxvy
10-29-2009, 12:58 PM
I think he was banned from this site.

billyfly
10-29-2009, 12:58 PM
Was discussing that very subject last night!
KD.

I am sure he has something to say about the debacle.

billyfly
10-29-2009, 12:59 PM
I think he was banned from this site.

I figured as much.

olegunnar
10-29-2009, 01:04 PM
EMT work for ya?:D
KD.

Not to you you douche.
To the infamous "warchest" or whatever it was called when I was a member

Bluenose13
10-29-2009, 01:13 PM
Not to you you douche.
To the infamous "warchest" or whatever it was called when I was a member

Why not have your username changed to the same name as you use on other supporters websites?.........This way everyone would know what perspective you are coming from instead of hiding like a coward and taking pot shots.

Rudi
10-29-2009, 01:17 PM
Why not have your username changed to the same name as you use on other supporters websites?.........This way everyone would know what perspective you are coming from instead of hiding like a coward and taking pot shots.
:lurk5::D

king dave
10-29-2009, 01:19 PM
Not to you you douche.
To the infamous "warchest" or whatever it was called when I was a member
You mean this one?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2578/4056350936_ea390528c9_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/35239674@N03/4056350936/)

KD.

KrazyKanadian
10-29-2009, 01:24 PM
Heck, if all it took to be a supporter was to pay $25 to a group, I'd have given Rooney some money at the start of the year and stayed home and watched the games on TV.

trane
10-29-2009, 01:25 PM
Right on the $$$ guy!
Instead of someone stepping up and giving a sincere apology to the supporters/fans with a promise of change we get a career TFC/MLSE guy, no offence Asif you were very good as my ticket rep., giving us the old Knute Rockney line about not giving up and continuing the fight.
Hello!?!
I stood in 2 inches of water in a steady hard rain at the Meadowlands last Saturday for over 2 hours with a very large dedicated group of fellow supporters who witnessed other individuals throwing in the towel.
That would be the team and it's management.
So I will not accept anymore bullshite from any FO about quitters and winners.
We support TFC and will continue to, but we demand some accountability and have yet to get any.
KD.

I was just going to reffer to the future King/President of the RPB, and his message for everyone to Foff, and here he comes.

Rudi, to be honest I cannot remember many saying I will stop supporting this club, I personaly wonder WHY I support this club at times, but then I always stay. I do recall many wondering if they want to renew season tickets and buy merchandise untill they show some serious interest in change. The two are not the same.

[ well they may be in MLSE eyes, but they are not, the club transcendes the MLSE, they may own the brand, but it is Toronto's footy team]

Oldtimer
10-29-2009, 01:27 PM
You mean this one?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2578/4056350936_ea390528c9_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/35239674@N03/4056350936/)

KD.

That is correct, it's obviously the RPB warchest and not MLSE's.

MLSE's looks more like this:



http://arbyte.us/images/treasure_chest_gold.jpg

Rudi
10-29-2009, 01:28 PM
[ well they may be in MLSE eyes, but they are not, the club transcendes the MLSE, they may own the brand, but it is Toronto's footy team]
I can agree with this 100%.

Shaughno
10-29-2009, 01:31 PM
Why not have your username changed to the same name as you use on other supporters websites?.........This way everyone would know what perspective you are coming from instead of hiding like a coward and taking pot shots.


:lurk5::D

Isn't his username the same on your board too Rudi? :lol:

CretanBull
10-29-2009, 01:31 PM
Why not have your username changed to the same name as you use on other supporters websites?.........This way everyone would know what perspective you are coming from instead of hiding like a coward and taking pot shots.

What name does he use elsewhere?

Rudi
10-29-2009, 01:37 PM
Isn't his username the same on your board too Rudi? :lol:
Not the same dude.

The olegunnar at U-Sector is cool with RPB.

Shaughno
10-29-2009, 01:40 PM
Oh snap... well then. :lol:

Billy the kid
10-29-2009, 01:44 PM
The analogy between supporting your little brother in sports and supporting a team that profits from the fans but does not produce well didn't really work for me. A lot of people who pony up money to view the games, order their specialty channel in order to watch the games and purchase their overpriced beer and food in order to pay the salaries of those in the organization have every right to be upset if they underperform. They even have a right to not purchase tickets to a game or spend less in concessions if they want. People paid for the product, they have a right to think the product was poor if they choose. They are not lesser fans for thinking that way.

king dave
10-29-2009, 01:59 PM
The analogy between supporting your little brother in sports and supporting a team that profits from the fans but does not produce well didn't really work for me. A lot of people who pony up money to view the games, order their specialty channel in order to watch the games and purchase their overpriced beer and food in order to pay the salaries of those in the organization have every right to be upset if they underperform. They even have a right to not purchase tickets to a game or spend less in concessions if they want. People paid for the product, they have a right to think the product was poor if they choose. They are not lesser fans for thinking that way.
Good point. Couldn't agree more.
I chose to renew my tix for next year hoping for a better season than the last 3. Not happy doing it under the circumstances but I did.
Most of the supporters I have spoken to share the same sentiments.
It's like having a contractor, who's fucked up the reno on your house several times, ask you for more $$$ and you have no choice but to give it to him with the hope the work will get done properly.
KD.

FluSH
10-29-2009, 02:00 PM
Not the same dude.

The olegunnar at U-Sector is cool with RPB.

The funniest shit is this guy spends more time on the Red Patch Boys forums than my brothers and myself combined...

billyfly
10-29-2009, 02:12 PM
Good point. Couldn't agree more.
I chose to renew my tix for next year hoping for a better season than the last 3. Not happy doing it under the circumstances but I did.
Most of the supporters I have spoken to share the same sentiments.
It's like having a contractor, who's fucked up the reno on your house several times, ask you for more $$$ and you have no choice but to give it to him with the hope the work will get done properly.
KD.

That's a great idea for a TV show.

olegunnar
10-29-2009, 02:14 PM
Why not have your username changed to the same name as you use on other supporters websites?.........This way everyone would know what perspective you are coming from instead of hiding like a coward and taking pot shots.

The reason I don't have the same username on all the message boards is because I speak for myself, and have no right to represent my views as those of anyone else. I'm not some ambassador of any group.

Right or wrong if I had Olegunnar as my name on all groups websites, everytime I shared one of my negative RPB experiences it would be the same thing.
"That Olegunnar guy from TRN is an asshole... RPB rules TRN drools. Whatever happend to group unity?"

Or "that olegunnar guy from the "capri pants are for girls only" website is an asshole. Carpi pants for girls only is a stupid group do they really think that about us?"

I'd rather it just be...that olegunnar guy is an asshole, beause that's the way it is.

You can call me a coward, and I can consider the pointless excersise of reporting your post as a personal insult, but the fact is on this site no one is required to share their real identity. Although I'm sure there are "members only" threads about people, I've seen them in the past.

If and when the day ever comes that people are required to post their real names and pictures I'd be all for it. Until then I'm not going to rush to be the first person in this shark tank to jump out of my shark cage.

Boris
10-29-2009, 02:16 PM
Although I'm sure there are "members only" threads about people, I've seen them in the past.


Thats news to me...not on this message board.......

king dave
10-29-2009, 02:21 PM
Until then I'm not going to rush to be the first person in this shark tank to jump out of my shark cage.

WTF you got against sharks?
KD.

Ageroo
10-29-2009, 02:22 PM
Thats news to me...not on this message board.......

You didn't get the memo Boris........we have the Red Patch Most Wanted list tacked up by the watercooler of our swanky new clubhouse....:rolleyes:

billyfly
10-29-2009, 02:24 PM
I Knew it! You guys do hate me.

wzhxvy
10-29-2009, 02:27 PM
All these personal insults create a poisonous environment for us peaceful board members.

Parkdale
10-29-2009, 02:31 PM
KD you need to be a team leader and have the RPB charter tatooed on your arese.


actually, we're not the group that's into getting our name tattooed on ourselves.

:D

Nomad
10-29-2009, 02:32 PM
actually, we're not the group that's into getting out name tattooed on ourselves.

:D

Can't take the pain huh Parky? :D

Boris
10-29-2009, 02:33 PM
All these personal insults create a poisonous environment for us peaceful board members.

exactly!!!!
lets just get back to topic. No more of this he said she said bull.

king dave
10-29-2009, 02:34 PM
All these personal insults create a poisonous environment for us peaceful board members.
It's gonna be a long off-season.
What better way to kill time than to fire up a few shitstorms, no?
KD.

FluSH
10-29-2009, 02:35 PM
If and when the day ever comes that people are required to post their real names and pictures I'd be all for it. Until then I'm not going to rush to be the first person in this shark tank to jump out of my shark cage.

Personally, I don't even bother with real names... there are very few people on here that I call by their real names... your name here is your name in real life in my books... so I could careless what you call yourself... but if you are spewing stuff off here and on different boards with different aliases... I might as well call you snake.

Nomad
10-29-2009, 02:35 PM
exactly!!!!
lets just get back to topic. No more of this he said she said bull.

Partypooper. :p

Nodoubtguy
10-29-2009, 02:35 PM
Peace, footy, and beer my friends.......peace, footy, and beer

Shaughno
10-29-2009, 02:38 PM
Snake?

http://trishwilson.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/snake_pliskin.jpg

king dave
10-29-2009, 02:38 PM
Peace, footy, and beer my friends.......peace, footy, and beer
and Charleston!
KD.

Rudi
10-29-2009, 02:39 PM
Peace, footy, and beer my friends.......peace, footy, and beer
It's actually peace, love and SOUL! :D

http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/theremoteisland/2008/11/16-22/Don%20Cornelius.jpg

Dave67
10-29-2009, 02:39 PM
It's gonna be a long off-season.
What better way to kill time than to fire up a few shitstorms, no?
KD.

ARE YOU REALLY RUNNING FOR PRES???

Nomad
10-29-2009, 02:39 PM
Peace, footy, and beer my friends.......peace, footy, and beer


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V9TcjIORO8&feature=related

KrazyKanadian
10-29-2009, 02:39 PM
http://snukes.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/give-peas-a-chance.jpg

Parkdale
10-29-2009, 02:40 PM
Heck, if all it took to be a supporter was to pay $25 to a group, I'd have given Rooney some money at the start of the year and stayed home and watched the games on TV.

quit adding fuel.


ps. where's your tattoo?

billyfly
10-29-2009, 02:40 PM
God Bless us, every one!

http://www.pcs.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/carol-469x360.jpg

Nodoubtguy
10-29-2009, 02:40 PM
It's actually peace, love and SOUL! :D


That works too....


and Charleston!
KD.

Fucking eh!!!!

king dave
10-29-2009, 02:40 PM
Snake?

http://trishwilson.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/snake_pliskin.jpg

I love that character.
I watch Death Proof 2X a day!
KD

Parkdale
10-29-2009, 02:41 PM
I watch Death Proof 2X a day!
KD

that explains a lot dave. It really does.

Shaughno
10-29-2009, 02:43 PM
I love that character.
I watch Death Proof 2X a day!
KD


that explains a lot dave. It really does.


It really explains a lot... since Snake Plisken wasn't in Death Proof as far as I know... :rofl:

http://www.ryanwilliams.us/Top100_80s/80s_top_100_pics/Escape-from-New-York-Poster-C10133218.jpeg

TheRenter
10-29-2009, 02:44 PM
wow, i mean, just wow...what an utter misinformed tool this guy is

i'm totally ashamed that this jerkoff was once my ticket rep and would ever write such total shite

he should be disciplined by his superiors...shame on you assif, shame on you

Wagner
10-29-2009, 02:45 PM
sports related tattoos seem like a good idea to me.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1138283/Manchester-City-fan-gets-needle-pals-having-Kaka-tattooed-chest.html

and

http://wluk.4wmt.com/content/albums/8b0cf743-6d8f-4431-b8e4-bfe4d6e30b91/Original/25db66a5-001b-4638-b62c-2bc9f8d53289.jpg

TheRenter
10-29-2009, 02:45 PM
asif....lol

get it..as if

sorry, couldn't resist ridiculing this assclown again

Parkdale
10-29-2009, 02:46 PM
okay.... this thread has derailed.


watch for the new, and cleaned up, thread coming soon.