MLS attendance down 2.6% in 2009

[Miko]

Despite Toronto and Seattle's crowds

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/soccer/10/28/mls.attendances/index.html

[Yohan]

expected, considering recession and MLS habit of putting stadiums in middle of buttfuck nowhere

[Nodoubtguy]

I expect NY's to go up a bit next season with Red Bull Arena being built.

also, looks like the Beckham effect has started to wear off

[Dirk Diggler]

Man ... I wonder how poor overall attendance would have been without Seattle.

[Roogsy]

Man ... I wonder how poor overall attendance would have been without Seattle.

Ouch...

I shudder to think.

I hope someone sticks it to Bill Archer as well...without Toronto those numbers were be god-awful as well.

[kodiakTFC]

attendance will go up next season with soccer interest peaking during the world cup.

[troy1982]

MLS attendance is still better than 90% of the European leagues and only 5 have more than a 20K average.

source:
http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

[Toronto Ruffrider]

A drop in average attendance seems predictable given the recession. If the economy perks up, crowds will be a little larger next season.

[TorCanSoc]

^Cool site.

[Cashcleaner]

^^ I don't know about that, Ruffrider. I mean, most MLS tickets are already dirt cheap. I don't think this can be largely attributed to the recession, though I'm not totally sure what the other factors would be exactly. It just seems like regardless of how the markets are doing and all, $12 or $15 for a day out at an MLS game in the States doesn't seem like a big expense for many. 2.6% isn't really a huge deal, though. It could could just be a random aberration.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

^^ I don't know about that, Ruffrider. I mean, most MLS tickets are already dirt cheap. I don't think this can be largely attributed to the recession, though I'm not totally sure what the other factors would be exactly. It just seems like regardless of how the markets are doing and all, $12 or $15 for a day out at an MLS game in the States doesn't seem like a big expense for many. 2.6% isn't really a huge deal, though. It could could just be a random aberration.

MLS tickets are cheap (for American fans anyway), but this recession was bad enough to hit just about every form of entertainment. Mind you, with tickets being as cheap as they are, that would explain why MLS attendance is only down 2.6%. I'm pretty sure that other leagues, such as MLB, have been hit harder this year.

Of course, it's worth pointing out that a drop in attendance of 2.6% only represents 423 fewer fans per game. It is difficult to explain a drop that small by any variable, as such a drop could easily be the result of fewer comp tickets.

[stugautz]

It's more the Beckham effect. When you consider that the top 3 teams in percentage drop (New York, New England and DC United) all play in large stadiums that had their numbers padded when Beckham came last year. This year, there wasn't the same effect which accounted for the drop.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

^ Excluding NY, NE, DC, Seattle (expansion team) and LA (half a season minus Becks), the average attendance in MLS this year was 14,693. Excluding those same teams, the MLS average in the previous season was 15,109. Removing the above teams from the equation actually brings the attendance drop to 2.8%.

[barca99]

Really interesting seeing the actual stats of Euro leagues. MLS is not too far behind, and maybe actually ahead, of comparable leagues in Europe. To me this points to keeping stadia small (15-20K) instead of trying to go huge off the bat.

Good topic!

[werewolf]

so thats why I ticket prices rose! To compensate league revenues

;)

While the numbers do look good by comparison to Europe, there are also tons more people in here, even with the other major sports leagues.

[Whoop]

While the numbers do look good by comparison to Europe, there are also tons more people in here, even with the other major sports leagues.

Even if you broke it down by capita, I think the numbers would still be pretty good.

[Kaz]

Dallas was a big hurt in that, I recall keeping track of numbers for the first 1/3 of the season, it was pitiful, Dallas needs a relocation badly. Or a serious change in advertising.

[C.Ronaldo]

whats important are the tv ratings


how did those do?

[troy1982]

whats important are the tv ratings


how did those do?

On ESPN MLS ratings were up 14.6% this year.



The decision to move away from a strictly Thursday night primetime lineup of games paid dividends for MLS and ESPN2 in '09. The league's telecasts were dispersed throughout Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday windows in '09, averaging 290,000 viewers, which was up 14.6% from last year's 253,000 mark. The '09 telecasts on ESPN2 were primarily primetime telecasts, but also included three Saturday afternoon telecasts. Following the season debut of Galaxy MF David Beckham on July 25, the net averaged 319,000 viewers for nine games, including 419,000 viewers for four Galaxy telecasts. Prior to the Galaxy-Wizards game on July 25, the net's 16 telecasts had averaged 272,000 viewers.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/134445

here is the discussion on bigsoccer about it

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1217559

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Sad thing is.....besides Seattle....none of these Playoff teams will SELL OUT there home games......Truly a sad case for MLS!... If teams cant sellout there stadiums..in the playoffs ..is there really hope in this league?

Instead of Expansion.....the league should of Re-Located teams such as..the KC.....DALLAS...RAPIDS...ect....To the cities Such as the Philly's...MOntreal .PORTLAND ..Vancouver's AND SEATTLE....

Need to get rid of the dead wood!

[boban]

Sad thing is.....besides Seattle....none of these Playoff teams will SELL OUT there home games......Truly a sad case for MLS!... If teams cant sellout there stadiums..in the playoffs ..is there really hope in this league?

Instead of Expansion.....the league should of Re-Located teams such as..the KC.....DALLAS...RAPIDS...ect....To the cities Such as the Philly's...MOntreal .PORTLAND ..Vancouver's AND SEATTLE....

Need to get rid of the dead wood!
What's all this talk of dire situation and dead wood and relocation.
95% of the soccer world would kill to have attendance figures like the MLS.
Take a step back, take a pill, and breathe my friend.
This article posted by the OP is absolute nonsense. Who cares for a minuscule drop in 1 year. Trends are more important. And the previous 2 years at least the number have been growing. You can't have every year increases in attandence. And having a year drop doesn't mean you abandon cities. If that were the case then some historical clubs in football wouldn't exist.

[troy1982]

Sad thing is.....besides Seattle....none of these Playoff teams will SELL OUT there home games......Truly a sad case for MLS!... If teams cant sellout there stadiums..in the playoffs ..is there really hope in this league?

Instead of Expansion.....the league should of Re-Located teams such as..the KC.....DALLAS...RAPIDS...ect....To the cities Such as the Philly's...MOntreal .PORTLAND ..Vancouver's AND SEATTLE....

Need to get rid of the dead wood!

LA V Chivas will sell out for sure.

[DichioTFC]

What's all this talk of dire situation and dead wood and relocation.
95% of the soccer world would kill to have attendance figures like the MLS.
Take a step back, take a pill, and breathe my friend.
This article posted by the OP is absolute nonsense. Who cares for a minuscule drop in 1 year. Trends are more important. And the previous 2 years at least the number have been growing. You can have every year increases in attandence. And having a year drop doesn't mean you abandon cities. If that were the case the nsome historical clubs in football wouldn't exist.

Very true, but the drop in revenues could be problematic for TFC because the salary cap will be lower across the board.

FC Dallas needs better marketing, not relocation yet.

[Shakes McQueen]

I suspect not having the "Beckham Effect" on attendance for half of the season, to pump up attendance numbers in markets that don't normally draw crowds, had a considerable influence too.

- Scott

[MrHawk]

Man ... I wonder how poor overall attendance would have been without Seattle.

14,975

[koryo]

And having a year drop doesn't mean you abandon cities.

However, if those cities in question are being subsisized by the larger markets in the league, then yeah: you do abandon them in favour of stronger markets.

(Note: I'm only referring to Columbus here... I hate them. Just thought I'd state the bias off the top).

[boban]

However, if those cities in question are being subsisized by the larger markets in the league, then yeah: you do abandon them in favour of stronger markets.

(Note: I'm only referring to Columbus here... I hate them. Just thought I'd state the bias off the top).
What do you think revenue sharing is?
NFL has it. NBA to a lesser extent. Hockey now also.
I guess we should have musical chairs for franchises in your eyes. :rolleyes:

[Shakes McQueen]

However, if those cities in question are being subsisized by the larger markets in the league, then yeah: you do abandon them in favour of stronger markets.

(Note: I'm only referring to Columbus here... I hate them. Just thought I'd state the bias off the top).

If MLS were an established professional league in North America, I'd agree with this.

Markets like Dallas will be vital to TV revenue in the future - having a league that spans most of the major media markets in the U.S. and Canada is what determines how lucrative TV deals are. It's why the NHL desperately wants to succeed in the southern U.S.

MLS has lots of teams that don't make a profit right now - even huge markets like New York. It isn't good the for the long term health and growth of the league to walk away from ostensibly "failing" markets like these, because there is a huge POTENTIAL to build them up as the league's legitimacy as a professional sports entity grows. The league knows that there is immense untapped potential in places like Dallas (especially with their giant Hispanic community), and New York.

Now, you COULD argue that a place like Columbus (which also generally draws poorly) ISN'T worth the league wasting money on, because it's a smaller market team, with less potential to grow down the road. But there aren't really any other teams in MLS that fall into this category.

The NHL is home to a handful of failing teams, but the consider them to be worth keeping afloat, precisely because they give the league a continent-wide presence - places like Tampa Bay, Nashville, and Phoenix are all walking-dead, as par as profitability goes.

- Scott

[koryo]

What do you think revenue sharing is?
NFL has it. NBA to a lesser extent. Hockey now also.
I guess we should have musical chairs for franchises in your eyes. :rolleyes:

You're preaching to the choir Boban. I'm just having a go at Columbus (as stated in my post).

[Bloor West FC]

Just build the stadiums downtown or at least have a good transit link beside the stadium. Both are in effect at BMO and Seattle!!

[KrazyKanadian]

Now, is this gate attendance or tickets sold?

[troy1982]

If MLS were an established professional league in North America, I'd agree with this.

Markets like Dallas will be vital to TV revenue in the future - having a league that spans most of the major media markets in the U.S. and Canada is what determines how lucrative TV deals are. It's why the NHL desperately wants to succeed in the southern U.S.

MLS has lots of teams that don't make a profit right now - even huge markets like New York. It isn't good the for the long term health and growth of the league to walk away from ostensibly "failing" markets like these, because there is a huge POTENTIAL to build them up as the league's legitimacy as a professional sports entity grows. The league knows that there is immense untapped potential in places like Dallas (especially with their giant Hispanic community), and New York.

Now, you COULD argue that a place like Columbus (which also generally draws poorly) ISN'T worth the league wasting money on, because it's a smaller market team, with less potential to grow down the road. But there aren't really any other teams in MLS that fall into this category.

The NHL is home to a handful of failing teams, but the consider them to be worth keeping afloat, precisely because they give the league a continent-wide presence - places like Tampa Bay, Nashville, and Phoenix are all walking-dead, as par as profitability goes.

- Scott

Columbus averaged 14.5K this year. Most 1st division teams in Europe would kill to have attendance this high.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Sad thing is.....besides Seattle....none of these Playoff teams will SELL OUT there home games......Truly a sad case for MLS!... If teams cant sellout there stadiums..in the playoffs ..is there really hope in this league?


CHI VS REVS 7,400 :facepalm:

Crew VS RSL 11,499


LA G vs Chivas 25,000 not surprising...they draw well and its a derby!

but the other 2 games...what a JOKE!

[james]

i think mls will get better attendence in next few years. New teams comming in seem to follow the TFC format like Seattle did and i believe Philly is to and they already have pretty good season ticket numbers and they got a whole winter still to sell tickets. Should be getting 20,000 a game there. Also 2011 i believe Portland and Vancouver will probably also get similar numbers.


Beckham last year also helped rise ateendence alot for games played at Giant stadium for example, but really most games i think still average the same amount as last year.

[Roogsy]

^^ I don't know about that, Ruffrider. I mean, most MLS tickets are already dirt cheap. I don't think this can be largely attributed to the recession, though I'm not totally sure what the other factors would be exactly. It just seems like regardless of how the markets are doing and all, $12 or $15 for a day out at an MLS game in the States doesn't seem like a big expense for many. 2.6% isn't really a huge deal, though. It could could just be a random aberration.

The truth is doing recessions, some forms of entertainment actually do BETTER than during times of robust growth.

That is because during good times, the cheap entertainment reflects slower growth as higher priced forms of entertainment benefit.

During recessions, it is the cheap forms of entertainment that keep the crowds distracted until the bad times pass. It's a well known fact for example that movies do better during recessions. I would assume a cheap ticket like an MLS game could in fact benefit from that, and the haven't. And then you have TFC hiking prices regardless of the economy and regardless of an inept team on the pitch and no wonder some people can't unload their tickets for a song.

[james]

MLS attendance is still better than 90% of the European leagues and only 5 have more than a 20K average.

source:
http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

ya besides the few big leagues like Italy, Spain, Germany, and England and somewhat Netherlands the rest of the other countries pretty much got 2-3 big clubs that are supported by 95% of the country while all the other teams in the league only get a few thousand fans a game.

[werewolf]

The NY metro area alone has more people then 80% of the countries in Europe.

[james]

The NY metro area alone has more people then 80% of the countries in Europe.

thats true to, NY metro has a population of something like 20 million people its even 2/3rds of the population of all of Canada believe it or not.

[jloome]

This entire discussion is ridiculous. MLS has been caught fudging ticket numbers by giving away freebies etc. so many times, you can't trust the numbers they release. Can't count the number of times a reporter has been at an MLS event and noted that their "17,000" looks a whole lot more like 11,000.

One team, Columbus, even got caught on paper, with documents leaked to the Columbus dispatch showing they were getting fewer than 10,000 a game.

So, it's sunny optimism to try and put a positive face on MLS attendance, as we have no idea.

[rocker]

whatever the # is, MLS knows exactly... since they get a cut of ticket sales.

[Hitcho]

This entire discussion is ridiculous. MLS has been caught fudging ticket numbers by giving away freebies etc. so many times, you can't trust the numbers they release. Can't count the number of times a reporter has been at an MLS event and noted that their "17,000" looks a whole lot more like 11,000.

One team, Columbus, even got caught on paper, with documents leaked to the Columbus dispatch showing they were getting fewer than 10,000 a game.

So, it's sunny optimism to try and put a positive face on MLS attendance, as we have no idea.

QFT Jezza.

The only way to judge this is to look at the shitty turn outs on tv and sneer at the shit places with no fans. :D

If TFC had made the play offs, 20k attendance (not just tickets sold), no question. We're lucky I guess. It must suck to go to a massive game in the play offs and have sparse attendance with faint noise. :o