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neuf
10-28-2009, 02:09 PM
WTF? Where will Montreal go?

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=296379

EDIT: this article mentions that Montreal may join MLS Division II? That leaves me with even more questions.

Jay P
10-28-2009, 02:23 PM
a few other USL teams will not play in the usl in 2010 , they could form their own league

Blazer
10-28-2009, 02:30 PM
I’m sure it’s been discussed but can’t MLS purchase the franchises (or entire USL entity) and just turn it into division II?!

That would be cool.

Wagner
10-28-2009, 02:31 PM
just speed up their entries into the MLS....get them in for 2010...
they can play each other home and home those first 2 weeks that they have already announced.

menefreghista
10-28-2009, 02:33 PM
I don't know what's more shocking, the news of this story, or the fact that TSN actually wrote this article.

FluSH
10-28-2009, 02:36 PM
WTF? Where will Montreal go?

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=296379

EDIT: this article mentions that Montreal may join MLS Division II? That leaves me with even more questions.


MLS Division II

WTF?

Are we going to be relegated next year...

wzhxvy
10-28-2009, 02:39 PM
Hold the phone...Mo has an announcement. He is committing that we will repeat as Canadian champions.

STB
10-28-2009, 02:44 PM
I’m sure it’s been discussed but can’t MLS purchase the franchises (or entire USL entity) and just turn it into division II?!

That would be cool.

MLS would never let that happen ever, no league in NA (NHL, NFL, MLB) has a second division because americans dont watch any sport that isnt at the top of its level... A relegation would destroy most teams in the MLS because the fans would just go elsewhere.....

Also it would mess up the draft system..

Personally i think its a great idea as it has an incentive to avoid the bottom of the division which has absolutely no meaning at present.

Lucky Strike
10-28-2009, 02:47 PM
In an interview with Montreal radio station CKAC...


I don't know how much stock I take in a radio whose initials mean "it's broken" (c'est cassé - C-KA-C). :D

But seriously, this is a very strange report, not only in content and where it's published from, but also in timing. I mean, why reveal something huge like this now, if in fact it is true?

C.Ronaldo
10-28-2009, 02:51 PM
MLS II might just be a junior league or reserve league until certain teams can prove they can support being in MLS I

Marco2K
10-28-2009, 02:52 PM
3 years in a row we would have been relagated..lol

Oldtimer
10-28-2009, 02:53 PM
This has actually been discussed for some time.

MTL, VAN, and some others are upset with the new ownership of the league (the teams don't own the league).

They've had some discussions with MLS about a Div II league, but this does NOT mean promotion/relegation. Teams would stay in their own league.

mastermixer
10-28-2009, 02:55 PM
Did Ottawa get a team in the USL? What happens to them?

C.Ronaldo
10-28-2009, 02:55 PM
^
i dont see why vancouver would give a poop on a scoop though

werewolf
10-28-2009, 03:05 PM
This has actually been discussed for some time.

MTL, VAN, and some others are upset with the new ownership of the league (the teams don't own the league).

They've had some discussions with MLS about a Div II league, but this does NOT mean promotion/relegation. Teams would stay in their own league.


It could be like the Arena Football League, who had a second division of sorts in name, but it was really just a seperate league (no promotion/relegation) in smaller markets.

TFC FORZA RPB
10-28-2009, 03:09 PM
as much as i dispise both teams, i say let them play in the mls

TFCRegina
10-28-2009, 03:11 PM
I’m sure it’s been discussed but can’t MLS purchase the franchises (or entire USL entity) and just turn it into division II?!

That would be cool.

USL Franchises are independent from the USL League. At the end of each season they make the choice to renew their membership in the league. That is how they can take their franchises and play in a new league if they want. The league doesn't own the franchises at all...

Beach_Red
10-28-2009, 03:14 PM
MLS would never let that happen ever, no league in NA (NHL, NFL, MLB) has a second division because americans dont watch any sport that isnt at the top of its level... A relegation would destroy most teams in the MLS because the fans would just go elsewhere.....

Also it would mess up the draft system..

Personally i think its a great idea as it has an incentive to avoid the bottom of the division which has absolutely no meaning at present.


Would TFC have been relegated this yer? If not, wouldn't they then just have said the year was successful? That would be worse than where we are now.

Detroit_TFC
10-28-2009, 03:54 PM
I know some people who know what is going on in USL. The split away group isn't going to do squat. By 2011 those clubs will either be back in USL or liquidated (financially I mean, not as in a Tony Soprano way).

Lucky Strike
10-28-2009, 04:00 PM
Would TFC have been relegated this yer? If not, wouldn't they then just have said the year was successful? That would be worse than where we are now.

No. With a league in the range of 12-16 teams, usually only two teams are relegated.

Broadview
10-28-2009, 04:03 PM
I guess they can play each other every week. That's how my house league lacrosse team worked.

Go Licks!
Boo The Palm Resturant!

C.Ronaldo
10-28-2009, 04:16 PM
if one team gets relegated, i dont see the HUGE deal.

but that will never happen especially with parity, blah blah blah

etc. etc.

mighty_torontofc_2008
10-28-2009, 04:17 PM
If the caps and impact would disappear for ever that would put a smile back on my face more the a leafs loss...Nuts to those pathetic usl franchises..who needs them...No Body!!

Beach_Red
10-28-2009, 04:21 PM
No. With a league in the range of 12-16 teams, usually only two teams are relegated.

Then we're better off with only eight teams making the playoffs rather than 13 not being relegated.

The last thing we need is a system where we only have to finish third from the bottom for MLSE to call it a successful season...

Azerban
10-28-2009, 04:29 PM
If the caps and impact would disappear for ever that would put a smile back on my face more the a leafs loss...Nuts to those pathetic usl franchises..who needs them...No Body!!

yeah competition sucks

i want to show up, have the team walk out, sing the anthem, and then immediately clap them off the field

at least we wouldn't lose as much

Blazer
10-28-2009, 04:44 PM
MLS would never let that happen ever, no league in NA (NHL, NFL, MLB) has a second division because americans dont watch any sport that isnt at the top of its level... A relegation would destroy most teams in the MLS because the fans would just go elsewhere.....

Also it would mess up the draft system..

Personally i think its a great idea as it has an incentive to avoid the bottom of the division which has absolutely no meaning at present.

Hmmm, disagree.

MLS fans aren’t NFL, MLB, or NBA fans. They are their own breed and likely can relate to second divisions etc. It’s not like American’s have to look very far (College sports) to see division one and two styles of operation.

I’m sure, in their infinite wisdom, MLS could figure out how the draft system would work. Hell, I can do that.

Azerban
10-28-2009, 04:48 PM
Give all the draft players to the MLS2 teams. MLS1 doesn't get any draft players. Done.

DOMIN8R
10-28-2009, 05:17 PM
JoMo's Tweet:


Whitecaps, Impact won't play in USL in 2010. Spoke to Lenarduzzi. story to follow

Correction it`s already up.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/10/28/sp-impact-witecaps.html



Lenarduzzi also confirmed that the Team Owners Association (TOA), a group of USL franchises that includes the Whitecaps and the Impact, would actively try to start up a breakaway league. The TOA would first need permission from the United States Soccer Federation, soccer's governing body in the U.S., before it could form its own league.

johnmolinaro
10-28-2009, 05:18 PM
i talked to Lenarduzzi. waiting to hear back from Saputo. my story is below:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/10/28/sp-impact-witecaps.html

keem-o-sabi
10-28-2009, 05:41 PM
USL Franchises are independent from the USL League. At the end of each season they make the choice to renew their membership in the league. That is how they can take their franchises and play in a new league if they want. The league doesn't own the franchises at all...

They have franchise agreements though, so new teams have to commit for a certain amount of time.

DOMIN8R
10-28-2009, 05:46 PM
You know I've been following this story for a while including listening to what Kartik Krishnaiyer has to say about it - which has been substantial and the guys at it's called football have discussed it a few times.

I just don't get it.

It just seems so silly. Both sides have soooo much to loose. Most would agree that Saputo can be a hot head and suffers from the occasional knee jerk reaction - but the rest of them - what are they thinking?

Kaz
10-28-2009, 06:31 PM
What is with all this talk of regulation this year? 2 teams finished below us in our division and 5 in the league. I don't see that as being regulated.

TorCanSoc
10-28-2009, 06:31 PM
Something big is up. I can smell it. Teams don't pull out of leagues, just to park thei ass for a year (or more in MOntreal's case). Guys don't dump an ugly girl, just to wait for the possibility of another ugly girl.... they trade up. Something is in the works.

(Oh I may get crucified for that analogy I know, but it was too good to pass up).

kodiakTFC
10-28-2009, 07:17 PM
What is with all this talk of regulation this year? 2 teams finished below us in our division and 5 in the league. I don't see that as being regulated.

3 teams were below Toronto.

Beach_Red
10-28-2009, 07:56 PM
3 teams were below Toronto.

Yes, and Dallas also had 39 points - no doubt there is some overly complicated system to figure out the tie-breaker.

But the point still stands, I think. If the bottom two teams were relgated, MLSE would be saying that the season was a success because TFC wasn't one of them and there wouldn't be any changes.

Next year there'll be 16 teams. With a playoff system the minimum that will be acceptable for a successful season is 8th. With a relegation system the team could claim success finishing 14th and staying in the top division.

A relegation system is perfect for MLSE because they don't build championship teams but they would be able to manage middle of the pack more often than not.

If only the last two teams are relegated it doesn't seem to set the bar high enough. At least let's aim for 8th.

stu!
10-28-2009, 07:59 PM
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v3793/44/125/1649910051/n1649910051_191329_6686326.jpg

This picture jinxed em!

No more USL4EVER

rocker
10-28-2009, 08:08 PM
so when teams in England's prem survive relegation, what's the fans' feeling? are they happy? relieved? Is it a "success" to remain in the league, or do they feel the way we feel about not making the playoffs?
Cuz obviously they must have no illusions that they could finish top 4 ... is near the middle a happy ending?

On a pts per game basis, TFC finished about where Wigan or Man City finished in 2008-2009.

werewolf
10-28-2009, 08:26 PM
so when teams in England's prem survive relegation, what's the fans' feeling? are they happy? relieved? Is it a "success" to remain in the league, or do they feel the way we feel about not making the playoffs?
Cuz obviously they must have no illusions that they could finish top 4 ... is near the middle a happy ending?

On a pts per game basis, TFC finished about where Wigan or Man City finished in 2008-2009.

A promotion/relegation system with a salary cap is an interesting proposition. It would really put pressure on GMs to make the personnel decisions and build championship caliber teams. I bet scouting departments would triple in resources.

Kaz
10-28-2009, 09:01 PM
3 teams were below Toronto.

Sorry four teams. I included Dallas as the Playoff Chase tab lists them below TFC on the main list. By MLS rankings they would not have been regulated.

Oh and as for the topic at hand.
There are what 8 teams that are in dispute with USL over the method it was sold? So this maybe part of their plan to form their own league.

A MLS division II I highly doubt would involve Pro/Reg

drewski
10-28-2009, 09:13 PM
unless it was already in the fine print, there's no way the MLS would put a relegation system in place, the teams would revolt

Beach_Red
10-28-2009, 09:24 PM
A promotion/relegation system with a salary cap is an interesting proposition. It would really put pressure on GMs to make the personnel decisions and build championship caliber teams. I bet scouting departments would triple in resources.

Other than playing against different teams, what would really be the difference between divisions?

I see how a relegation system can pressure teams to avoid finishing the bottom two places, but once they get into the comfortable middle, what's the motivation to finish any higher?

keem-o-sabi
10-28-2009, 09:25 PM
it will never happen with promotion/relegation. It's a totally different system franchise vs. club membership. We're not going to have teams pay 40mil to 50mil to join the league and have a group come in at 750k (current USl1 rate) and then automatically come up to the first level.

It will never happen here. It wasn't set up that way and it won't change.

Maybe if they changed the draft order and made it so the 1st overall pick went to the team that finished first then maybe that would provide incentive.

billyfly
10-28-2009, 10:07 PM
Wow. I had read a few things about this but if its on TSN, what does that mean?

flatpicker
10-28-2009, 10:22 PM
What a wacky thread!

The idea of a break-away league irritates me to no end!
How many independent pro soccer leagues must we have in North America?
I have never liked the idea of more than one pro league, in any sport, competing against each other.
If we are talking more than one league in a relegation system; then that's fine.


As for the idea of relegation in MLS.
I really don't see why it would be such a big deal.
I've argued about this many times in the past.
If MLS were to merge with USL to form a two-tier relegation system,
there are plenty of financial wizards working in MLS to help protect the interests of owners who have already handed over hefty franchise fees.
If the most recent expansion teams have handed over $40mil to the league, then use that figure to organise MLS 1 & MLS 2 finances.
Perhaps all current MLS teams get certain financial perks for a certain number of years,
in order to balance their investment with the much lower investment USL teams have made to be in the league.
Perhaps the current group of MLS clubs get a higher salary cap for a certain number of years.
Maybe they get a larger cut of the shared revenue, compared to the USL clubs that just joined MLS.
Maybe current MLS clubs would be guaranteed high draft picks for a certain number of years.
Also, whatever clubs finish in the relegation zone in MLS One, would get a single playoff game (at home) against the top MLS Two clubs trying to move up.
This would make it even harder for top teams to be relegated.


You get where I'm going with this?
Am I making any sense?
You could have USL clubs form an MLS Two, but give so many perks to today's MLS teams that the chance of relegation would be relatively low for several years.
Then, by the time all the perks run out, fans should be pretty comfortable with the whole relegation system.
- not to mention, every team... including the worst of MLS Two, would compete for the MLS Cup.
In much the same way as the FA Cup works (except on a smaller scale).
So even if, say New York, got relegated, they would still have a chance at the Cup...

Ossington Mental Youth
10-28-2009, 10:46 PM
Couple people suggested it would be a league in which teams that lose money or support could go down to and teams that have bigger aspirations and prove themselves (with support and money) could go up to. Also the MLS2 could cater to smaller markets.
Makes sense to me.

Beach_Red
10-28-2009, 10:49 PM
^ I think at that point most North American fans would say, what's the point? The fear of relegation doesn't look to have any more consequences than the fear of missing the playoffs.

I think a relegation system is only needed when you have way too many teams to have anything near a balanced schedule. If there were 40 markets (really what I mean is 40 stadiums that could sell 20,000 tickets per game) for pro teams in North America, it could work.

In some ways the NFL has a kind of relegation system now because not every team plays every other team every year - and part of the schedule is determined by where the teams finished last year. But they always play division rivals no matter where they finish.

I think every team tries to win every game and the league structure or playoff structure has very little to do with competitiveness.

And yes, what a wacky thread.

Toronto Ruffrider
10-28-2009, 11:11 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing a promotion/relegation system based on paid attendance. That would force teams such as Dallas and KC to actually put some effort into their ticket sales.:D

Of course, as keem-o-sabi points out, we're not going to see promotion/relegation in a league that has expansion fees. Teams such as Vancouver and Portland would never pay big bucks just to end up back in the second division.

flatpicker
10-28-2009, 11:16 PM
^ which is why I suggested that all existing MLS teams would be given a $40 mil cushion of sorts.
I'm no financial expert so I'm just giving an uneducated opinion...
But I'm sure the MLS brainiacs could come up with some way that those teams would maintain a certain financial advantage for several years.

Dirk Diggler
10-28-2009, 11:17 PM
What the hell is regulation? Or are we talking about relegation?

flatpicker
10-28-2009, 11:27 PM
^ well, I just took a quick look through this page and I only ever saw the word "relegation".
Not saying "regulation" is not in there somewhere...
But what I am saying is... stop being a snarky-nerdy-pants!

Dirk Diggler
10-28-2009, 11:31 PM
^ well, I just took a quick look through this page and I only ever saw the word "relegation".
Not saying "regulation" is not in there somewhere...
But what I am saying is... stop being a snarky-nerdy-pants!

Do ctrl + f and look for regulation. There are a few instances in this thread and a couple of others in the past. I really want to know whether someone is misspelling relegation or is there such a thing as regulation (much like administration that some British teams have went under).

Toronto Ruffrider
10-28-2009, 11:36 PM
^ which is why I suggested that all existing MLS teams would be given a $40 mil cushion of sorts.
I'm no financial expert so I'm just giving an uneducated opinion...
But I'm sure the MLS brainiacs could come up with some way that those teams would maintain a certain financial advantage for several years.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see promotion/relegation in MLS. Unfortunately, I think the franchise structure of the league is too similar to what is found in other professional leagues in North America. If MLS consisted of clubs that could operate independent of the league, then perhaps promotion/relegation could work.

Toronto Ruffrider
10-28-2009, 11:40 PM
What the hell is regulation? Or are we talking about relegation?

MLS already has regulation - some would say too much of it.;)

Dirk Diggler
10-28-2009, 11:41 PM
I don't think pro/rel is a good idea in a league with forced parity (i.e. salary cap, draft picks etc) ... there is just going to be too much turnover. Also, can you imagine a situation in which teams, on the last day of the season, are not only trying to make the playoffs but also trying to avoid being relegated? That just maybe TOO much excitement for the sake of excitement.

kodiakTFC
10-28-2009, 11:57 PM
Sorry four teams. I included Dallas as the Playoff Chase tab lists them below TFC on the main list. By MLS rankings they would not have been regulated.

Oh and as for the topic at hand.
There are what 8 teams that are in dispute with USL over the method it was sold? So this maybe part of their plan to form their own league.

A MLS division II I highly doubt would involve Pro/Reg

Nope, Dallas finished ahead of us due to the first tie breaker being games against. You'll notice on the site, wikipedia, and every other standings website that we are below them. Remember going into that last game Dallas and Colorado couldn't both win, its because they are ranked higher than us in the tie breaker.

Cashcleaner
10-29-2009, 12:34 AM
WTF?!

This is the first I've ever heard of the growing dissent within USL, nevermind the possibility of MLS 2. An independent break-away league doesn't sound workable. I don't see how the USSF would endorse such a move, and I doubt the clubs in question take a chance on breaking off relations with them over this.

Promotion/Relegation would probably ruin the MLS organization. I mean, I just don't see teams from larger markets drawing crowds if they are stuck playing in the bottom tier. I mean, how many New Yorkers or Chicagoans would be okay with playing one or more season facing opponents like Carolina or Minnesota? And on the flip side, travel costs and the price of trying to maintain a roster that can compete in the upper tier will bankrupt smaller clubs playing in MLS1.

I'm gonna admit, I got no idea how this is all gonna work out.

TFCRegina
10-29-2009, 01:17 AM
WTF?!

This is the first I've ever heard of the growing dissent within USL, nevermind the possibility of MLS 2. An independent break-away league doesn't sound workable. I don't see how the USSF would endorse such a move, and I doubt the clubs in question take a chance on breaking off relations with them over this.

Promotion/Relegation would probably ruin the MLS organization. I mean, I just don't see teams from larger markets drawing crowds if they are stuck playing in the bottom tier. I mean, how many New Yorkers or Chicagoans would be okay with playing one or more season facing opponents like Carolina or Minnesota? And on the flip side, travel costs and the price of trying to maintain a roster that can compete in the upper tier will bankrupt smaller clubs playing in MLS1.

I'm gonna admit, I got no idea how this is all gonna work out.

Read MLS Talk and you'll hear all about it. Kartik Krishnaiyer is a huge fan of USL and is connected within the organization. The dissent has been brewing for some time, and is connected to the owners getting screwed over by Nike.

Luanda
10-29-2009, 06:04 AM
The announcement of the departure of Vancouver and Montreal from USL may be premature according to another story from yesterday afternoon

http://www.rds.ca/impact/chroniques/285110.html

Ossington Mental Youth
10-29-2009, 06:05 AM
I dont think itll necessarily be relegation to the MLS2 or promotion to MLS1 but i can see alot of those teams preferring to play under the MLS banner with its rules and safety net as well as it gets better coverage then the USL etc etc. Also im sure the MLS1 will want to put some reserve teams down there and poach from the MLS2 teams, in one system itd make it easier

Oldtimer
10-29-2009, 07:06 AM
Everyone, promotion & relegation were not part of the discussions with MLS, and Garber is already being on record that it will never happen. MLS II, should it happen will be a parallel disconnected, tier 2 league.

drewski
10-29-2009, 07:10 AM
The announcement of the departure of Vancouver and Montreal from USL may be premature according to another story from yesterday afternoon

http://www.rds.ca/impact/chroniques/285110.html

for those who don't read french...(from google translate)



Leaders of USL have taken to mitigate their remarks about the future of the Montreal Impact who seemed to compromise in this league in 2010.

The Chief USL Alec Papadakis said in a release that his organization continued to negotiate with the Impact and the Vancouver Whitecaps on a return in 2010.

"We welcome the return of the Impact and Whitecaps in 2010 and we continue our preparations for next season," he said.

The director of operations Whitecaps, Bob Lenarduzzi, told Sports CKAC a new league could emerge.

"We're about to make a formal request to the USSF (United States Soccer Federation) to create our own league," he said.

"Following the statement issued earlier by the USL, I would also like to confirm that talks are continuing between the Montreal Impact and the USL," said Impact President Joey Saputo. We did not put an end to negotiations. We are still working on various options including the possibility that the impact is in the USL-1 in 2010. "


Earlier in the day, Papadakis was noted in an interview to CKAC that the Montreal may have to evolve into another soccer league in 2010.

"I talked to Mr. Joey Saputo for whom I greatly respect. He is a man of good soccer, but decided to go in another direction. I would like to thank the two Canadian teams, Vancouver and Montreal, for everything they did for the USL in the past. They have excellent franchises in our league and I have great admiration for them. Now, we wish them luck in their future plans, "he said.

Oldtimer
10-29-2009, 09:20 AM
So... MLSII is a bargaining chip.

C.Ronaldo
10-29-2009, 09:27 AM
joining the CSL?


lol

jloome
10-29-2009, 12:49 PM
Yes, and Dallas also had 39 points - no doubt there is some overly complicated system to figure out the tie-breaker.

But the point still stands, I think. If the bottom two teams were relgated, MLSE would be saying that the season was a success because TFC wasn't one of them and there wouldn't be any changes.

Next year there'll be 16 teams. With a playoff system the minimum that will be acceptable for a successful season is 8th. With a relegation system the team could claim success finishing 14th and staying in the top division.

A relegation system is perfect for MLSE because they don't build championship teams but they would be able to manage middle of the pack more often than not.

If only the last two teams are relegated it doesn't seem to set the bar high enough. At least let's aim for 8th.

Due to the franchise fees paid and the risk of loss on return, there would only be relegation in the case of the league being able to guarantee loss protection from the collective income of the first division clubs. Given that most of those owners are either losing more or using their clubs for massive corporate write-downs, that's exceptionally unlikely to happen.

Much more likely? MLS is starting a second division, and stocking it with former USL clubs and reserve clubs for the first division. In fact, you'll probably see within a month or so the announcement of "farm club" partnerships with the former USL clubs.

Just my suspicion. Makes the most sense based on their existing business model.

Cashcleaner
10-29-2009, 01:07 PM
Much more likely? MLS is starting a second division, and stocking it with former USL clubs and reserve clubs for the first division. In fact, you'll probably see within a month or so the announcement of "farm club" partnerships with the former USL clubs.

Just my suspicion. Makes the most sense based on their existing business model.

That's sorta how I always thought it would work out. Something along the lines of the NHL and AHL, or Major League Baseball clubs and the Minor League affiliates.

Beach_Red
10-29-2009, 01:48 PM
Due to the franchise fees paid and the risk of loss on return, there would only be relegation in the case of the league being able to guarantee loss protection from the collective income of the first division clubs. Given that most of those owners are either losing more or using their clubs for massive corporate write-downs, that's exceptionally unlikely to happen.

Much more likely? MLS is starting a second division, and stocking it with former USL clubs and reserve clubs for the first division. In fact, you'll probably see within a month or so the announcement of "farm club" partnerships with the former USL clubs.

Just my suspicion. Makes the most sense based on their existing business model.

Yes, I think you're right, if the farm teams can also provide the write-downs. Otherwise it's hard to see MLS making much of a financial investment in more teams. What they really want is an NFL/NBA model where they don't have to pay anything for player development.

Kaz
10-29-2009, 02:18 PM
If a MLS II were to ever happen then it should be like AAA baseball, and there is nothing wrong with that... not everything has to be like Europe, yes the game should be played to the international standard, but why can't we make the Sport our own, and do it our way, that works for every other sport in Canada and the US without bankrupting clubs.

Beach_Red
10-29-2009, 02:39 PM
^ bankrupting or driving them into huge debt. By now eveyone should be more worried about carrying huge debt loads.

TFC_Chris
10-29-2009, 03:11 PM
If a MLS II were to ever happen then it should be like AAA baseball, and there is nothing wrong with that... not everything has to be like Europe, yes the game should be played to the international standard, but why can't we make the Sport our own, and do it our way, that works for every other sport in Canada and the US without bankrupting clubs.

Be careful with that "we should make it our own" with the MLS. They tried that a bit back in the 90's with draws being decided with a 35-yard shootout, stop-time, and other fun little "ventures."

Oldtimer
10-29-2009, 03:53 PM
Be careful with that "we should make it our own" with the MLS. They tried that a bit back in the 90's with draws being decided with a 35-yard shootout, stop-time, and other fun little "ventures."

Yep, that Doug Logan, the former Commissioner sure had some bright ideas. :rolleyes:

Kaz
10-29-2009, 06:28 PM
Be careful with that "we should make it our own" with the MLS. They tried that a bit back in the 90's with draws being decided with a 35-yard shootout, stop-time, and other fun little "ventures."

More talking about the front office stuff the sport should be played to international rules. (personally I think Hockey should be too, but that is just me)

Macksam
10-29-2009, 09:47 PM
More talking about the front office stuff the sport should be played to international rules. (personally I think Hockey should be too, but that is just me)
Why?

billyfly
10-29-2009, 10:10 PM
You mean no touch icing? And whistles if any goalie takes a puck to the mask?

TFCUNITED
10-30-2009, 12:05 AM
In the NHL if you ice the puck then your team can't change lines. I don't know if they do it at the international level yet but it's a really good rule. If your a shitty team and have a lead, all you would have to do is shoot the puck down the ice and change lines. With this rule, you can do it but you will punished. Plus it results in more action.

C.Ronaldo
10-30-2009, 09:15 AM
i prefer international ice hockey surface size

more strategy involved

Kaz
10-30-2009, 07:20 PM
I don't much care for the NHL never got into hockey, baseball, american football or basketball. But I enjoy watching Hockey during the Olympics I don't what about it is different it just is more enjoyable to watch.

Redcoe15
11-05-2009, 12:03 PM
Looks as if Ottawa and Edmonton, as well as Baltimore and Detroit, may be joining USL-1 as early as next season.

http://www.uslsoccer.com/home/380020.html

werewolf
11-05-2009, 12:05 PM
Baltimore and Detroit...:rofl: What's next? Milwaukee?

Detroit_TFC
11-05-2009, 12:17 PM
Detroit USL-1 team has been in the works for a while, delayed by funding issues. Apparently they've found an team in Europe to help with sponsorship so it's moving forward now, not sure who. Announcment next week. I have no idea where they would play, the PDL team plays in an regulation sized indoor facility that only seats 2,000.

In somewhat related news, the PDL team here just ended it's affiliation deal with Columbus and is now affiliated with Colorado Rapids.

TFCUNITED
11-06-2009, 12:28 AM
Nice to see the USL expanding.

hamiltonfan
11-06-2009, 01:40 AM
we will find out later today(Friday) if Hamilton will be grant the Pan-Am Games, therefore granted a USL-1 team under the ownership of Bob "The Builder" Young to play in a new stadium built for the games.

Bob Young owner the Hamilton Tiger-Cats, former CEO of Red Hat, presently founder and CEO of LULU.com.

Interesting part, Bob Young is a part owner in the (formely) USL-1 team Carolina RailHawks. The RailHawks are siding with the TOA and plan on playing in the new second division league. Will Bob change his plans in Hamilton and add the team in this new league? Things are getting interesting in pro soccer in N.A
:canada:

C.Ronaldo
11-06-2009, 09:51 AM
I don't much care for the NHL never got into hockey, baseball, american football or basketball. But I enjoy watching Hockey during the Olympics I don't what about it is different it just is more enjoyable to watch.

larger ice surface and more skill

Fort York Redcoat
11-06-2009, 09:58 AM
we will find out later today(Friday) if Hamilton will be grant the Pan-Am Games, therefore granted a USL-1 team under the ownership of Bob "The Builder" Young to play in a new stadium built for the games.

Bob Young owner the Hamilton Tiger-Cats, former CEO of Red Hat, presently founder and CEO of LULU.com.

Interesting part, Bob Young is a part owner in the (formely) USL-1 team Carolina RailHawks. The RailHawks are siding with the TOA and plan on playing in the new second division league. Will Bob change his plans in Hamilton and add the team in this new league? Things are getting interesting in pro soccer in N.A
:canada:

Hoo ray for the Hammer but I don't want any Pan Am games sneaking into Toronto.

C.Ronaldo
11-06-2009, 10:03 AM
Looks as if Ottawa and Edmonton, as well as Baltimore and Detroit, may be joining USL-1 as early as next season.

http://www.uslsoccer.com/home/380020.html

this is exciting stuff

they seem really focused with a game plan, and know what they want to accomplish.

USL is a big part of making soccer a huge sport in N.A. you need the geographic distribution and multiple levels of skill to get the countries engaged in the sport
i.e American Footbal

rocker
11-06-2009, 10:33 AM
we will find out later today(Friday) if Hamilton will be grant the Pan-Am Games, therefore granted a USL-1 team under the ownership of Bob "The Builder" Young to play in a new stadium built for the games.


the pan am games would not come until 2015 ...

so USL soccer in Hamilton in a new stadium will take many years, if Toronto is award the games.

And it will be played on fieldturf forever.............. so the purists will not be happy.

C.Ronaldo
11-06-2009, 10:54 AM
the pan am games would not come until 2015 ...

so USL soccer in Hamilton in a new stadium will take many years, if Toronto is award the games.

And it will be played on fieldturf forever.............. so the purists will not be happy.

better than nothing

hamiltonfan
11-06-2009, 11:19 AM
Although the games are not till 2015, the stadium in Hamilton along with other facilities around southern Ontario will be built prior. Mr. Young and the city of Hamilton want to get out of historic Ivor Wynne as soon as possible. The stadium would be ready for 2012 I believe. It is to bad that it will be artificial grass, I don't see the city keeping up with the real stuff but a team run by Young will be run in the most professional manner.

C.Ronaldo
11-06-2009, 02:31 PM
what will be at Wynne stadium?

Billy the kid
11-06-2009, 02:51 PM
I think once Vancouver and possibly Montreal are both in the MLS, soccer fans in Ottawa will more forcefully push for an MLS team.

kodiakTFC
11-06-2009, 03:08 PM
I wonder how USL teams in Edmonton and Ottawa would effect the NCC.

Billy the kid
11-06-2009, 03:15 PM
Games between Toronto and Vancouver during the MLS season might have to also count as NCC games. With more teams in the NCC, rosters will really be stretched thin. Either that or they may have to adopt a single knock out style tournament like the U.S. Open has.

kodiakTFC
11-06-2009, 04:58 PM
Toronto, not Hamilton, won the 2015 Pam Am games http://tsn.ca/story/?id=297438 . What does this mean for Hamilton's USL dreams?

rocker
11-06-2009, 05:00 PM
now that Toronto gets the Pan Am games, I wonder what that means for BMO Field?
Could it perhaps be expanded and used for some events???

It'd be much better to watch soccer there on grass that at Hamilton's proposed stadium with the track around it.

Toronto Ruffrider
11-06-2009, 05:05 PM
Toronto, not Hamilton, won the 2015 Pam Am games http://tsn.ca/story/?id=297438 . What does this mean for Hamilton's USL dreams?

The Pan Am games will be region-wide. If I'm not mistaken, the main track and field complex will be in Hamilton. That complex will be the new home of the Ti-Cats and the USL-1 team.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
11-06-2009, 05:05 PM
Toronto, not Hamilton, won the 2015 Pam Am games http://tsn.ca/story/?id=297438 . What does this mean for Hamilton's USL dreams?



Hamilton was part of a JOINT bid with TO no?

NF-FC
11-06-2009, 06:24 PM
The "Toronto" bid has facilities ranging from Scarborough to Welland. The main stadium will indeed be built in Hamilton, and the USL/TOA-1 club should be on it's way.

kodiakTFC
11-06-2009, 07:35 PM
The "Toronto" bid has facilities ranging from Scarborough to Welland. The main stadium will indeed be built in Hamilton, and the USL/TOA-1 club should be on it's way.

ahhh ok, I read another article in the other post that says this too.

rocker
11-06-2009, 07:52 PM
Hamilton's stadium is not the main stadium tho. Opening and closing ceremonies are at the dome, and footy is at BMO. Hamilton gets the track and field.

jimiv
11-06-2009, 10:05 PM
Hamilton's stadium is not the main stadium tho. Opening and closing ceremonies are at the dome, and footy is at BMO. Hamilton gets the track and field.

According to the 2015 bid, football will be played at Ron Joyce Stadium in Hamilton, a new stadium in Burlington (Sherwood Park), Varsity Stadium and BMO.

rocker
11-06-2009, 10:15 PM
According to the 2015 bid, football will be played at Ron Joyce Stadium in Hamilton, a new stadium in Burlington (Sherwood Park), Varsity Stadium and BMO.

oh ok.. but the hamilton stadium is still not the main stadium of the bid.

Dirk Diggler
11-06-2009, 10:39 PM
There is no "main stadium" as such ... the skydome will only be hosting the ceremonies so that definitely cannot be called the main stadium either. Traditionally track and field events are considered the "main events" so if there is a main stadium, I think the new stadium in Hamilton will have to be it.

Detroit_TFC
11-10-2009, 10:09 AM
TOA announcment of new league was released today. TOA say they have applied for Div II in US from USSF and Div I from CSA. How the hell is that going to work?

jimiv
11-10-2009, 11:11 AM
TOA announcment of new league was released today. TOA say they have applied for Div II in US from USSF and Div I from CSA. How the hell is that going to work?

Do you have a link?

MG42
11-10-2009, 11:17 AM
From SBI

Six ownership groups that were previously part of the USL-First Division have joined forces with St. Louis Soccer United to form a new professional soccer league that will begin play in 2010.
The Atlanta Silverbacks, Carolina Railhawks, Miami FC, Minnesota Thunder, Montreal Impact and Vancouver Whitecaps have joined St. Louis in an as-yet-unnamed league that has submitted an application for the sanctioning of the new league as a Division 2 league. The league will apply to be a Division 1 league in Canada.
“This is not your typical new league,” said Montreal owner and league chairman Joey Saputo. “Most of our teams have existed for years. We have united some of the best owners, teams and markets around a new vision for a professional soccer league in North America.

read more
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/11/usl-outcasts-set-to-launch-new-league-in-2010.html

CoachGT
11-10-2009, 11:18 AM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2009/11/10/impact_whitecaps_new_league/

Toronto Ruffrider
11-10-2009, 11:21 AM
TOA announcment of new league was released today. TOA say they have applied for Div II in US from USSF and Div I from CSA. How the hell is that going to work?

USL-1 had Div II status in the US and Div I status in Canada, so the breakaway league would be no different in that regard.

billyfly
11-10-2009, 11:40 AM
What happens to the Battery?

Toronto Ruffrider
11-10-2009, 11:45 AM
What happens to the Battery?

I guess they'll stay in USL-1, or whatever's left of it. At least they'll have the Rhinos for company.:tongue:

Detroit_TFC
11-10-2009, 11:55 AM
USL-1 had Div II status in the US and Div I status in Canada, so the breakaway league would be no different in that regard.

I didn't know about the Div 1 status in Canada, interesting.

C.Ronaldo
11-10-2009, 12:50 PM
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Soccer+professional+league+take+flight+2010/2206557/story.html


North America will have a new soccer league from April after rebel clubs broke away from the established second tier league to form a new competition.

The seven clubs, previously tied to the United Soccer Leagues (USL), the structure below Major League Soccer, said on Tuesday they had formed a new league and begun the formal process of gaining official recognition from governing bodies. The seven include USL champions Montreal Impact and the team they beat in the league’s final game — Vancouver Whitecaps.

DOMIN8R
11-10-2009, 12:52 PM
Already discussed here.

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=18228

TorCanSoc
11-10-2009, 12:56 PM
This can't be good for anyone. How can a league get up and running in a year, and be considered top quality?


(Yes discussed elsewhere, but I appreciate new articles in new threads.)

werewolf
11-10-2009, 01:07 PM
(Yes discussed elsewhere, but I appreciate new articles in new threads.)

I think a new league being formed deserves its own thread.

tfcleeds
11-10-2009, 01:22 PM
This can't be good for anyone. How can a league get up and running in a year, and be considered top quality?


(Yes discussed elsewhere, but I appreciate new articles in new threads.)

Not to mention, they'll just be losing a team when Vancouver joins MLS in 2011.

werewolf
11-10-2009, 01:28 PM
I think a new league being formed deserves its own thread.

or not :noidea:

C.Ronaldo
11-10-2009, 01:31 PM
or not :noidea:

guess not lol


So what happens with the carolina preseason?


Is MLS going to back one of these leagues. Its going to have to in order to keep some order around here parts.

its going to be chaos for tv/venues.

DOMIN8R
11-10-2009, 01:40 PM
or not :noidea:

For the record, after thinking about it for more than 1 second, I think that it deserves it's own thread to.:o

C.Ronaldo
11-10-2009, 01:52 PM
time for a breakaway supporters group

redpatch renegades

Detroit_TFC
11-10-2009, 05:01 PM
time for a breakaway supporters group

redpatch renegades

:lol:

RR will apply to Paul B for immediate recognition and demand that Section 112 row 1, 5, 13, and 20 be made a separate supporters section in the supporters section.

Detroit_TFC
11-10-2009, 05:04 PM
Not to mention, they'll just be losing a team when Vancouver joins MLS in 2011.

Apparently Whitecaps owners are going to keep a USL/TOA/whateva team in addition to the MLS team. Could be just a rumor on teh internez though.

ag futbol
11-10-2009, 06:10 PM
^ I think Mtl and Vancouver have both been public on those intentions.

Maybe TFC could look at adding something similar to crank up the development pyrmid. Canadian clubs are in a unique situation because we don't have the local means to develop players the US clubs have access to (even though everybody technically has access to NCAA and signing non-MLS players).

C.Ronaldo
11-11-2009, 09:35 AM
that would be smart, and thus the beginning of MLS2 - (ie. AHL)

Ossington Mental Youth
11-11-2009, 09:49 AM
that would be smart, and thus the beginning of MLS2 - (ie. AHL)

thats what im thinking

flatpicker
11-11-2009, 11:42 AM
that would be smart, and thus the beginning of MLS2 - (ie. AHL)


Going that route would effectively kill the US Open Cup.
Though it would certainly increase the number of MLS teams that make the Champions League.

If USL (or whatever) suddenly becomes an "AHL" type league, then you can't exactly have those teams playing against their parent clubs in MLS.
It would be like the Maple Leafs playing the Marlies.
Somehow there would be questions about fair play in that scenario.

C.Ronaldo
11-11-2009, 02:07 PM
^ u will still have the USL or renegade league

one of the two will remain in the place that USL is today

DOMIN8R
11-20-2009, 02:26 PM
TAMPA, BALTIMORE TO JOIN NEW PROFESSIONAL SOCCER LEAGUE

Expansion brings new league to nine teams

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2009/11/20/team-owners-association-adds-two-more-teams-9-total/

mighty_torontofc_2008
11-20-2009, 02:35 PM
^ I think Mtl and Vancouver have both been public on those intentions.

Maybe TFC could look at adding something similar to crank up the development pyrmid. Canadian clubs are in a unique situation because we don't have the local means to develop players the US clubs have access to (even though everybody technically has access to NCAA and signing non-MLS players).


TFC should put a U-21 team in this new league...there need to be a level below the first and reserve teams and this just might be the answer.

Oldtimer
11-20-2009, 03:24 PM
The name of the new league?

The North American Soccer League (NASL)!!!

http://www.uslnews.com/2009/11/return-of-north-american-soccer-league.html

Beach_Red
11-20-2009, 03:39 PM
Now someone really should bring back the Blizzard!

DOMIN8R
11-20-2009, 04:11 PM
^^^^ mmmmm Blizzard.

http://peoriaspeaks.com/wpmu/katearch1978/files/2009/06/blizzardgroup.jpg

Brooker
11-20-2009, 04:48 PM
Crystal Palace Baltimore? really? LOL!

werewolf
11-20-2009, 04:53 PM
At least Crystal Palace has been playing in lower USL leagues and is affiliated. The Tampa Rowdies...:puke:...that is worse then an Arena Football team name.

kodiakTFC
11-20-2009, 05:34 PM
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/847/rowdies86dl5.jpg

The name has some historical nostalgia.

Shway
11-20-2009, 06:31 PM
^^^just about to sayt they have more history then us

Redcoe15
11-20-2009, 09:13 PM
http://www.kenn.com/images/rowdies_new_logo.jpg

Too bad they're coming out with a shit logo. :prrr:

TFCRegina
11-20-2009, 09:17 PM
League is to be named the North American Soccer League according to MLS Talk as Miami FC has purchased the rights to the NASL name.

http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/toa-grabs-two-pieces-of-nasl-legacy/7202