Kristian Jack tears Mo a new one [Archive]

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Mikey

10-26-2009, 06:07 PM

http://my.thescore.com/footyblog/archive/2009/10/26/29172.aspx

Mods please delete if this is already here....

CoachGT

10-26-2009, 06:18 PM

Can't say that there is a lot in here that I disagree with.

FluSH

10-26-2009, 06:20 PM

There are sooo many threads... but I was with Christian Jack until this:

FACT - Amado Guevara has to go. I give Guevara a lot of credit for the way he has changed his game but his continued desire to drop deep, coupled with his 300K contract, means he needs to be moved on. He will also have two eyes firmly on South Africa in 2010

I mean is he fcking mad? We will lose Amado because of 2010 WC but he was one of the better players this season... gave us 3 real chances in that POS game vs NYC when other players were walking around with their heads cut off like chickens....

Unfortunately his focus will be the WC... but all things aside I wish Amado stays with the team...

werewolf

10-26-2009, 06:24 PM

its in the daily news thread, and mentioned elsewhere, but I think this is valid enough to warrant its own thread.

Dirk Diggler

10-26-2009, 06:25 PM

I usually don't watch or read a lot of stuff by The Footy Show guys but KJ is bang on the money here.

Shakes McQueen

10-26-2009, 06:26 PM

wzhxvy

10-26-2009, 06:26 PM

Amado showed up when he felt like it this year. I dont want him back because of WC and the fact he will be 1 year older. Time to move to someone who wants to be here game in game out. Oh not to mention his convenient injuries here for us and getting back in shape JUST before the Honduras games...please.

Shakes McQueen

10-26-2009, 06:30 PM

I think Amado is a good player, but I don't want him back next season. He has an ego, a temper, and a tendency to show up some days, and not others. We can't afford to waste $300k on someone like that, under this cap. Especially when you consider the number of central midfielders we already have.

I'd like to see de Guzman take over his role in the center of the pitch, as a central attacking option, and creative fulcrum.

- Scott

FluSH

10-26-2009, 06:31 PM

^^^
I think Amado has taken alot of undue slack for the above... how many players have not shown up at all.... for the entire season?!

The man played more international games than anyone in the team... and still came back to play for the team even after arriving at 11:00pm at night the day before an MLS game... it's a reputation that stuck with him (because apperantly he can be better...) and now he will never shake it off....

For the above, I hope that if Amado leaves for another team, he will get the respect that he deserves...

FluSH

10-26-2009, 06:32 PM

ag futbol

10-26-2009, 06:35 PM

I agree with most of what Kristian has wrote but i take his Carl Robinson / Amado Guevara talk with about half a container of salt as his personal friendships seem to cloud his sense of reality.

Guevara has been fighting a lot of nagging injuries this year and was involved in WCQ with honduras. I agree he is getting older, and probably due to all the mids we have a good candidate to leave. Very talented but needs the ball, if this team is going to run through JDG, better to stick someone else out there who can be more of a complementary part rather than a central figure.

Robinson - great character, good guy to muck up the defense, but anytime you're team has the ball you are playing 10 v 11. If KJ really wanted to open his eyes he'd see that the defensive midfiedler spot is one of the most well played in MLS. There are plenty of guys out there who win the ball nearly as well as robinson but blow him out of the water easily when it comes to passing ability.

Why does he think Guevara always has to come back for the ball (Dero has been doing the same thing)? It's because Robinson can't link play for shit and the backline can't pass. So our attacking players have to sprit down field to try and do all the work going forward themselves.

Really we should be looking at both these guys similarly in a sense of "are they worth the money?" In my opinion it's probably a no in both cases.

Dirk Diggler

10-26-2009, 06:36 PM

If people want to talk about egos and tempers... Chad Barett doesn't even shake hands when he gets subbed-out... but for some reason we seem to over look this... and Jimmy B's temper? Well... no let's talk about Amado instead he is the easier target...

I think people overlook Chad Barret's potential temper issues because he gets so much flak for more important things ... i.e. his lack of talent. No use complaining about his ego when people feel he shouldn't even be on the field based on his skillset.

Shakes McQueen

10-26-2009, 06:38 PM

^^^
I think Amado has takeb alot of undue slack for the above... how many players have not shown up at all.... for the entire season?!

The man played more international games than anyone in the team... and still came back to play for the team even after arriving at 11:00pm at night the day before... it's a reputation that stuck with him (because apperantly he can be better...) and now he will never shake it off....

For the above, I hope that if Amado leaves he will get the respect that he deserves...

If Amado leaves, I will absolutely give him the respect he deserves. He wasn't a headcase with us, the way he was in the past.

And you're right, other people haven't shown up as well - and they need to be held accountable for that. And that might mean shipping them out.

But in our crowded midfield, we can't afford to waste $300k on extraneous players - especially if he's considered a "bad apple" in the locker room, like jloome's sources indicated in that thread

As for Jimmy B - I've already gone on record as saying he's lost a step, and shouldn't be our starting LB next season. I also suggested at the beginning of this season that maybe he shouldn't be the captain.

And targets don't get much "easier" than Chad Barrett.

- Scott

FluSH

10-26-2009, 06:38 PM

I think people overlook Chad Barret's potential temper issues because he gets so much flak for more important things ... i.e. his lack of talent. No use complaining about his ego when people feel he shouldn't even be on the field based on his skillset.

True... but yet people slag on Amado for what... an ego? The man keeps to himself in this team that is full of egos...

colman1860

10-26-2009, 06:39 PM

I dont think the WC will be as big of a deal as people think. MLS breaks for it, and Honduras will not be getting out of the group stage. We'll miss him for two weeks (preparation) at most.

Shakes McQueen

10-26-2009, 06:40 PM

Was there not lots of talk that Guevara was going to go back to play in Hondruas after this season anyway?

- Scott

Dirk Diggler

10-26-2009, 06:40 PM

Great article. Hard to take fault with any of it.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if maybe we should just make a clean break with a new GM - or even better, become one of the few (if any?) teams that just have a manager, instead of a GM/Coach combo.

No use bitching about it, unless we as a SG are willing to come forward with a unified face in demanding such a change, though. Scattered calls for Mo to be fired or resign, aren't going to resonate with the ownership.

- Scott

I agree.

In regards to having a single manager (i.e Mo in year one) I would prefer that as well ... although considering the extremely complex nature of MLS, I think it is preferable if one guy is solely dedicated to that side of the game without worrying about managing the team on the field as well. I think there are a few guys who have the dual role that we might be able to snag up (for the right money). Failing that, I would like to see a well respected and more authorative manager ... one who dictates the GM on what needs to be done, rather than the other way around, which seems to be the case under the current set up where Mo has been a much more significant voice compared to the under qualified head coaches in Carver and Cummins.

FluSH

10-26-2009, 06:41 PM

If Amado leaves, I will absolutely give him the respect he deserves. He wasn't a headcase with us, the way he was in the past.

And you're right, other people haven't shown up as well - and they need to be held accountable for that. And that might mean shipping them out.

But in our crowded midfield, we can't afford to waste $300k on extraneous players - especially if he's considered a "bad apple" in the locker room, like jloome's sources indicated in that thread

As for Jimmy B - I've already gone on record as saying he's lost a step, and shouldn't be our starting LB next season. I also suggested at the beginning of this season that maybe he shouldn't be the captain.

And targets don't get much "easier" than Chad Barrett.

- Scott

Where is this thread? I was pretty sure Amado kept to himself... I mean he speaks little English... Even Big Bruva disclosed this a couple of months ago... that mostly jokes about him go through Amado... how is that a bad apple?

FluSH

10-26-2009, 06:43 PM

Was there not lots of talk that Guevara was going to go back to play in Hondruas after this season anyway?

- Scott

What would you do with a mess of this organization? The man is getting older, he won't be able to retire into a coaching role here in Canada like most of the Anglo guys... so in my opinion he needs to re-establish his roots in Honduras... where he is respected.... and rightly so... Amado was a pivotal point in getting Honduras qualified for the WC.

Shakes McQueen

10-26-2009, 06:44 PM

Where is this thread? I was pretty sure Amado kept to himself... I mean he speaks little English... Even Big Bruva disclosed this a couple of months ago... that mostly jokes about him go through Amado... how is that a bad apple?

It's in the general TFC forum, about the "bad characters" on the team. You'll have to ask jloome what was said specifically.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen

10-26-2009, 06:45 PM

What would you do with a mess of this organization? The man is getting older, he won't be able to retire into a coaching role here in Canada like most of the Anglo guys... so in my opinion he needs to re-establish his roots in Honduras... where he is respected.... and rightly so... Amado was a pivotal point in getting Honduras qualified for the WC.

Man you're getting defensive about Guevara, haha. I wasn't antagonizing him for it - I was just pointing out that there was talk of him leaving the team anyway, so this discussion of whether he should leave may just be purely academic in the end.

- Scott

TFC07

10-26-2009, 06:47 PM

Guevara is leaving? If so, I am going to miss him. I don't know what happened in the past, but he was a class act during his time in Toronto.

As for the article itself, well done KJ. I hope rest of media outlet continues writing these sort of articles in off-season.

FluSH

10-26-2009, 06:48 PM

Man you're getting defensive about Guevara, haha. I wasn't antagonizing him for it - I was just pointing out that there was talk of him leaving the team anyway, so this discussion of whether he should leave may just be purely academic in the end.

- Scott

You are right...

Only Because I feel a certain bias against Guevara that I feel I need to speak on...

Shakes McQueen

10-26-2009, 06:51 PM

I agree.

In regards to having a single manager (i.e Mo in year one) I would prefer that as well ... although considering the extremely complex nature of MLS, I think it is preferable if one guy is solely dedicated to that side of the game without worrying about managing the team on the field as well. I think there are a few guys who have the dual role that we might be able to snag up (for the right money). Failing that, I would like to see a well respected and more authorative manager ... one who dictates the GM on what needs to be done, rather than the other way around, which seems to be the case under the current set up where Mo has been a much more significant voice compared to the under qualified head coaches in Carver and Cummins.

The thing is - if you have a coach who is dictating who to draft, and what players to sign, aren't they doing all of the work anyway? Under that scenario, the GM is just a glorified accountant and head negotiator.

They could have someone negotiating contracts and keeping tabs on the cap, without needing a general manager, no?

- Scott

Roogsy

10-26-2009, 06:52 PM

I wish Amado well. And as far as appreciating his talent...I think we can all agree he is probably the most skilled player we have right now despite his age.

However, his focus on WC2010 and the fact that he really did disappear this year after June...I'd like to use that contract space elsewhere.

Shakes McQueen

10-26-2009, 06:53 PM

Whoop

10-26-2009, 06:55 PM

Guevara was a like a lot of players on this team, showing up when he wanted to.

I will give him credit for being one of the few who did something in NY, but when he went cold in the summer, that's when we lost the points we needed.

But I think the point that Kristian Jack, and others here, are making is that with DeRo, JDG and Amado, you have too many cooks in the kitchen. One of them has to go and guess which one it's going to be?

EDIT: I think Roogsy just summed it up nicely.

Roogsy

10-26-2009, 06:58 PM

By the way, Kristian Jack nailed every point DEAD ON.

It was the most precise, succinct, accurate analysis article I have seen yet about this team. And if TFC don't pay attention, it's because they are too stubborn and proud to listen. I will even have to agree with the Vitti point...despite the fact that I like having him on the team...at the price he is costing us on the roster...he isn't worth it.

Keyman

10-26-2009, 06:58 PM

Guevara is expendable. Push De Guzman forward into either a more central, or even attacking role and you make up for the loss of Guevara. Yes, De Guzman rose to prominence as a result of his play at the holding position, but that was against far better competition. He may not have the skill to be a influential attacking player in Europe, but I feel as though he would do well against lesser competition in MLS.

FluSH

10-26-2009, 07:00 PM

^^
I don't have faith in JDG playing a more attacking role...

Whoop

10-26-2009, 07:04 PM

You better hope so. Otherwise that could be an expensive mistake a la Denilson.

I think he can do it. He does it for the Canadian team.

The key is can he and DeRo get along?

I can't put my finger on it but there seems to be some tension there that I'm sure is related to money.

Dirk Diggler

10-26-2009, 07:07 PM

The thing is - if you have a coach who is dictating who to draft, and what players to sign, aren't they doing all of the work anyway? Under that scenario, the GM is just a glorified accountant and head negotiator.

They could have someone negotiating contracts and keeping tabs on the cap, without needing a general manager, no?

- Scott

He doesn't necessarily need to tell the GM what exact players to draft, sign or trade for. He could just tell him that he needs a central defender and a striker under any circumstance. The GM, in turn, could find out what players that fit that bill can be had and run that list by the coach.

And yeah, I guess what we need IS a glorified accountant and head negotiator. He needs to be there in order to negotiate contracts and trades, keep an eye on foreign players, manage the scouting department etc ... without dictating the manager on what he wants.

Dirk Diggler

10-26-2009, 07:09 PM

^^
I don't have faith in JDG playing a more attacking role...

I share that skepticism as well ... but alas, it doesn't seem practical to allocate such a ridiculously large chunk of our cap on 3 players (Deguzman, Derosario and Guevera) ... thus the reason why someone needs to be made redundant in order to plug other holes on the pitch. It seems that Deguz and Derosario are here for the long haul so Guevera seems like the logical contract to come off the books for various reasons.

wzhxvy

10-26-2009, 07:11 PM

Dero needs to get over himself on the money issue. He wasnt making DP money in Houston and he wasnt going to get it anywhere else. As a matter of fact, he got the most money he will get anywhere from TFC.

I have no issue if he tries to get more money in the off season, in private, but to let that affect his play or keep whining about it in public...then that crosses a line in my view.

ArmenJBX

10-26-2009, 07:13 PM

Perhaps it's time we stopped this little project of ours. We are not little Britain. We are not Canada FC. We should certainly not be the Toronto Maple Leafs of this league. I love being Canadian just as much as the next Torontonian, but it's time we became an MLS team. Give us the Mexican centerback. Call in the American winger and striker. Give a good blend of American and Canadian talent. And lastly, give us an American coach who knows this league. I know it's selling our Canadian soul, but we need these kind of people in our organizations. Canadian sports is soft in comparison to Americans. Right now, I wish we had Brian McBride.....

Sometimes it's good to think Canadian...but, the Canadian national team is no where near the US one. Bring in the Americans. Bring in the Mexicans. Give us an MLS team, not a Canadian one...

Keyman

10-26-2009, 07:14 PM

^^
I don't have faith in JDG playing a more attacking role...

I know his track-record doesn't exactly inspire confidence, but his skill-set should. Julian reads the game extremely well, has fantastic ball skills as well as pace, is an adequate distributor and has a good shot. He has all the attributes of an attacking midfielder, but he just hasn't been used in the role throughout his career because, well, there were other players who were superior to him up front. Julian would finally be given the opportunity to make things happen, instead of being marginalized in the holding position.

Keyman

10-26-2009, 07:20 PM

Whoop

10-26-2009, 07:23 PM

I thought part of the reason is because he doesn't want to be a striker. I mean, didn't Houston want him to be a striker as well and he said no?

Shway

10-26-2009, 07:24 PM

FACT - Sam Cronin is a good player and has the potential to be a solid player in the MLS. However, Mo Johnston knew full well when he drafted him that he was a central player (this is where he performed so well for Wake Forest) yet still took him ahead of a defender (the team's biggest need). I actually feel sorry for Cronin. He was a victim of a terribly constructed roster and was forced to play out of position for the ENTIRE season.

THANK YOU JACK

NOW IM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHOS SAYING IT

Keyman

10-26-2009, 07:31 PM

I thought part of the reason is because he doesn't want to be a striker. I mean, didn't Houston want him to be a striker as well and he said no?

That's interesting, I've never heard that before.

Blazer

10-26-2009, 07:36 PM

Jack's entitled to his opinion the same way we all are and while I don't disagree with much or any of what he said ...

http://www.mii.org/Minerals/Minpics1/Rock%20Salt.jpg

... this is all it is.

jabbronies

10-26-2009, 07:43 PM

I have to agree with Flush...Amado is an asset to this team right now. yes he did have his off games, but honestly, I would blame the lack of a consistant formation for his inconsistancy.

The man has a passion to play here. It showed when he arrived at 11pm and still wanted to play the next day. he knew his team was in a playoff push and he want to be there to help. if the team needs more character players, then getting rid of him may not be a good idea.

yes he makes a shit load of cash, but perhaps he takes a paycut next season, play him off the bench?

Blazer

10-26-2009, 07:45 PM

To attack Amado (likely the guy least responsible for our failures this season) you’re stretching it a little.

TFC Cityboy

10-26-2009, 07:46 PM

KJ has pretty much nailed it there. Lots of opinions and he has the balls to call it like it is/seems to be at least.
Add that to Ben's piece and you have 2 passionate and respected opinion-formers pulling no punches about the rotten state of play at BMO.

Shakes McQueen

10-26-2009, 07:53 PM

wzhxvy

10-26-2009, 07:58 PM

To say that Amado has played when he wanted to and put national team duty way above his club duty is not attacking him...its a fact. I get the feeling that some of you are taking the comments and interpreting them as more than a commentary on him as a football player. I could personally care less where he is from but as I mentioned he played when he wanted to...took it easy when he needed to (with supposed injuries) and paced himself as he pleased (plays a so so game with us - floating/resting - and then plays with Honduras and is a maniacal, obessed, driven 100% energy player all game)....

At the end of the day, he will be 1 year older next year, has other priorities, and will likely be as inconsistent next year if not more. The fact that he decided he wanted to come back here after the WCQ means little in my eyes. From his perspective his job was done with Honduras and now he wanted to contribute for TFC...great he is a professional and wanted to help TFC when his job was done for Honduras...but that does not negate all his crappy/non existent performances for good parts of the year...lets not let the fact that he was the best of a shitty lot on Saturday cloud our judgement.

Roogsy

10-26-2009, 08:03 PM

Very true...proven by evidence. His production levels fell off substantially after June after a rabid start. Like you said, this is not an attack on Guevara but rather an analysis of what we can likely receive from him next year. Taking up over 10% of the salary cap requires this kind of investigation.

Damien

10-26-2009, 08:20 PM

It's not that I don't love Amado as a player cuz I do. He's been my fave over the past 2 seasons.

But for the sake of bringing balance to our squad, coupled with the fact that Amado has his heart set on WC2010 and will be a year older next year, we just can't keep him. Our midfield already has 2 creative players in DeRo and DeGuz.

$300k can be used on a good defender and or a quality striker.

Oldtimer

10-26-2009, 09:03 PM

Roogsy

10-26-2009, 09:11 PM

As Kristian Jack mentioned, he is now a First Wave Sports client...which means as long as Mo is in charge, we're going to have Barry Maclean's clients all over our team.

Dirk Diggler

10-26-2009, 09:26 PM

As Kristian Jack mentioned, he is now a First Wave Sports client...which means as long as Mo is in charge, we're going to have Barry Maclean's clients all over our team.

It is sad that we have to accept that fact and move on while clearly realizing that the money owed to Vitti can be used on a better player(s).

Heathen

10-26-2009, 09:27 PM

As Kristian Jack mentioned, he is now a First Wave Sports client...which means as long as Mo is in charge, we're going to have Barry Maclean's clients all over our team.

And kudos to KJ for continually banging on about the agent goings on because its something that imo needs scrutiny.
As for Guevara, no doubt he's a great MLS player but his priority this year has been WC2010 not to say he's been completely disinterested or anything because he hasn't but he's for sure been protecting himself. I can only see the same in March, April and May next year.

ensco

10-26-2009, 09:39 PM

Huh?

Guevara may need to leave TFC, he was tripping over DeRo and JDG, but even if he played the same position as Robbo, which he doesn't, it's damn silly to rate Carl Robinson over Amado Guevara.

v00d00daddy

10-26-2009, 10:16 PM

Huh?

Guevara may need to leave TFC, he was tripping over DeRo and JDG, but even if he played the same position as Robbo, which he doesn't, it's damn silly to rate Carl Robinson over Amado Guevara.

I agree. IF (and that's a big if, lol) Guevara has to leave, it's solely due to the fact that he and JDG seemed to be tripping over one another when they were both on the field. Obviously, if we have to choose between JDG and Amado...

Those of you suggesting that Amado should leave cause of his WC committments and because he "disappears"....I totally disagree. Amado came back from a qualifier once this year, did not expect to play, Robbo got hurt in warm up, and Guevara stepped in and played a great game. Yet, he has no heart and doesn't want to be here?

Here's the sad truth around these parts: If Amado Guevara spoke english well enough to write a blog, or send twitters, or write a column gushing about how great the supporters are...a whole bunch of people would have a much different opinion of him. As far as footballers go, he's been one of, if not the best one, consistently, for TFC....imo.

In fact, he may be in the running for POTY (although DeRo would win it) instead of people talking about how much he needs to go.

Cashcleaner

10-26-2009, 10:19 PM

FACT - There needs to some serious repercussions following Saturday's humiliating performance in New York.Agreed. I can't think of anyone on the boards, here or, well - ANYWHERE, that would disagree.

FACT - This cannot start and end with the coach.No, I say we start with the coach.

FACT - Chris Cummins was leaving this club before Saturday's debacle, practically sticking the proverbial two fingers up at the club on his way out, so the club, and management, cannot just allow his departure to be the sole reason for them to change direction.I think most people believed Cummins wouldn't be back for next season, but I would balk at the idea that he would intentionally set us up for a fall in NY. Not that I'm saying you're implying that, though.

FACT - There are major divisions inside that dressing room. They were there throughout the season and only now are we learning about them...No further details on this? I was always under the impression that some of the larger egos weren't getting on, but this sorta sounds more like a mutiny in the locker room than anything else.

FACT - While we are on the subject of the captain, this needs to change. Just as people, rightly or wrongly, will hold Cummins accountable for the divisions in the locker room, the same has to be laid at the door of Jim Brennan...
I won't lie to you. I think Jim needs to go too. I'm not sure if Dunny would have made that big a difference this year if he stayed on the roster, but let's consider the fact that not only is Brenna past his prime as on the pitch; but judging by the breakdown in the locker room, his leadership just wasn't enough to keep the team working on the same page.

FACT - Ah wide players, there's a nice thought. It really is absolutely amazing that a team with ZERO wide players made it so close to making the MLS playoffs. Spare me with the Marvell Wynne answer also. Wynne is a right back, and nothing else, for a reason...But what about Wynne? Oh wait. Okay, nevermind.

FACT - Sam Cronin is a good player and has the potential to be a solid player in the MLS. However, Mo Johnston knew full well when he drafted him that he was a central player (this is where he performed so well for Wake Forest) yet still took him ahead of a defender (the team's biggest need). I actually feel sorry for Cronin. He was a victim of a terribly constructed roster and was forced to play out of position for the ENTIRE season.I feel bad for Cronin as well. Though you have to admit that either in or out of his natural position, the guy did have some really good games this season...

FACT - (I know I only have a short amount of time to base this on but...) Julian De Guzman is being used all wrong by this team. De Guzman is a great talent but on a team that doesn't control the ball well he needs to be more involved. During the talk of his impending arrival many words were written and spoken about how this signalled the end for midfielder Carl Robinson. However, I could never work that out and still can't...Good thing you mentioned that you didn't have a lot of time to base all that on. I knew that De Guzman was never going to have a major impact on the team this season. He needed time to adapt to the league and get adjusted with the flow of play here in MLS. I'm quite confident that once we start shifting the roster around in the off-season we'll see JDG and others fall into the slots they best fit in.

FACT - For those reasons, De Guzman will desperately hoping Robinson returns to Toronto FC next season.I imagine most of us are hoping so as well.

FACT - Amado Guevara has to go. I give Guevara a lot of credit for the way he has changed his game but his continued desire to drop deep, coupled with his 300K contract, means he needs to be moved on. He will also have two eyes firmly on South Africa in 2010.I kinda see what you mean, but I've also seen just what sort of threat he is - especially with set pieces. Ah yes. I remember a time before Amado showed up when I couldn't care less about a Toronto corner kick. That's all changed now thanks to him.

FACT - Football is a simple game. Get good defenders and you will win more games than you lose. The fact that, after three years, this is still the biggest problem (and with the lack of goals, that's saying something) is nothing short of disgraceful. For the bulk of 2008 season, the combination of Marco Velez and Tyrone Marshall were repeatedly torn to shreds but anyone with a remote football brain knew that Marshall was the better player yet he wasn't given a chance to play next to a more accomplished defender. A year later and neither are here and the replacements have been no better...Again, once the dust settles after this season, I'm confident Serioux will be impressive in 2010. Gerba? Give him time as well. If he shapes up he'll be great for us. If not, well, I'm sure there's a team in central Scotland that might be interested...

FACT - Mo Johnston has made a reputation for himself of giving out laughable contracts. Garcia and Gerba aside, the money given to Pablo Vitti is nothing short of a miracle. What actually merited Vitti getting close to 300K in the first place? The fact that he was from Argentina and good on a video game? Vitti arrived in Toronto with a reputation of a goalscorer, despite having never scored goals anywhere he'd been. Johnston was remarkable passive when it came to Vitti. A man who never shy's away from cutting players should have known as soon as he saw Vitti have no desire to get in the box what he had signed yet stuck with him...I was never, ever, EVER convinced of Vitti's skill. It's odd, because when he's on the pitch you can almost see the wheels turning in that brain of his, but at the end of the day, he simply hasn't lived up to the investment the club made in him.

FACT - Talking about bad contracts. Its now 15 months since Toronto FC acquired Chad Barrett from Chicago, where he scored 18 goals in 82 appearances. Apparently, two months into his tenure at BMO Field, Johnston saw enough to give him a four year deal close to 200K per year...From this day on, I never want to hear the words Chad Barrett and Toronto FC in the same sentence. Get him out of here! He should have been gone a long time ago.

FACT - Dwayne De Rosario had a good season but not a great season. Sure, it was hard playing with some of the players he did but he absolutely disappeared down the stretch. In fact, he disappeared the moment he was no longer 'the man' when the DP arrived. I'm just saying.Hmmmmmm...Yeah. That's a fair point. Again, it's an ego thing and could be just indicative of the general unease going around in the locker room.

FACT - The job of becoming Toronto FC's next coach is one that isn't that appealing right now. Unless, MLSE are willing to sign a big fat check to entice a big name, why else would anyone want the job? They clearly will not be in charge and will have to answer to Mo Johnston and coach Mo Johnston's players... And again, it should be mentioned that with no salary cap or restrictions on coaches and the fact that we're making almost as much as the Galaxy, MLSE has little excuse for hiring anyone but the best for this club.

Detroit_TFC

10-26-2009, 10:22 PM

Guevara is on and off, not uncommon in this league. Considering he came to TO with a reputation as being completely insane, I think its worked pretty well. He is nowhere near the top of the list of problematic players.

MUFC_Niagara

10-26-2009, 10:28 PM

Is this that blonde haired guy who's one of the analysts on the score?

Oblio2

10-26-2009, 10:31 PM

Nick Garcia is one of the worst in the short history of this franchise. In fact, seeing that the rights to Ali Gerba were also involved in the deal, makes it THE worst deal in the history of the club. Mo Johnston may well have taken $450,000 in cash out of the MLSE bank account and set it on fire in the middle of BMO Field

LOL....too fucking true

MUFC_Niagara

10-26-2009, 10:32 PM

Leo Rautins is an analyst that tried to be a coach....that tried to be a coach.....that's worked out well. LOL.

SoccMan

10-26-2009, 11:25 PM

Serioux has not lived up to expectations. I have always felt he was a bit overated even before coming to TFC. He is a frustrating player, yes he has a good work rate,however, he makes too many mistakes and he makes critical mistakes that can cost you a goal. He has always been prone to making that one bone headed play ever since I can remember watching him play throughout his career. He can look great at times even dominating in his play in games and then the next minute make that one stupid play that can cost you a game, and this happened a few times with him this season. That last game versus New York you could almost argue that at least 3 of those goals came about because of Serioux , yes he works hard and gives you an honest effort, however, you also need to back that up with good decision making that I think alot of times he lacks. I'm sorry but I think he needs to go.

Rudi

10-26-2009, 11:53 PM

Leo Rautins is an analyst that tried to be a coach....that tried to be a coach.....that's worked out well. LOL.
What are you talking about? What analyst is trying to become coach?

And Leo Rautins played in the NBA. He wasn't exactly some noob to the game of basketball.

Roogsy

10-27-2009, 12:23 AM

Leo Rautins is an analyst that tried to be a coach....that tried to be a coach.....that's worked out well. LOL.

Really? Taking a shot at one of the pioneers of Canadian basketball?

I am not Rautin's biggest fan, but his credibility in basketball is pretty solid.

menefreghista

10-27-2009, 12:49 AM

Leo Rautins is an analyst that tried to be a coach....that tried to be a coach.....that's worked out well. LOL.

Rautins managed to qualify Canada for the World Championships....

Dirk Diggler

10-27-2009, 01:00 AM

Don't even know why Rautins was mentioned ... Kristian Jack did not even criticize the coaching ... his main gripe was with Mo Johnston, the general manager.

MUFC_Niagara

10-27-2009, 08:51 AM

Really? Taking a shot at one of the pioneers of Canadian basketball?

I am not Rautin's biggest fan, but his credibility in basketball is pretty solid.

He didn't even have his level 1 coaching certificate when he took the job and that he alienated Steve Nash and Samuel Dalembert.

Carts

10-27-2009, 09:03 AM

I've skimmed the thread - here's my two cents on some stuff said...

Amado - I think he gets ragged on too much because of his reputation. If he has a bad game its "...he just didn't try, didn't want to be here..." and if he has a good game its "...why didn't he play like that last week?..." I think its fair that players (especially on a bad team - and unfortunately we are) will have good & bad performances... Seems he can't win...

JDG in a more attacking role - I don't have confidence in that (especially since in the last 2 games he's whiffed on two possible shots on goal)... He should play to his strengths, and we should work around his strengths... If Dero stays (yes, there's an if there) we have an excellent attacking midfielder in Dero, and an excellent defending midfielder in JDG - work with those strengths - build around those strengths when adding players...

Carts...

Parkdale

10-27-2009, 09:07 AM

there are some points I don't agree with, but many that I do.

I'm just happy people are calling out for answers.

S_D

10-27-2009, 09:08 AM

but that would mean Carts that TFC would have to play the players in their actual positions. TFC seems to have a problem doing that because MO screwed up.

For cripes sake the man had almost a MILLION over the cap to play with, arguably more than any other team and we were still short of players (roster), traded players when we had no backups (dunny, Tyrone) short of wingers, and a quality central defender or two.

God forbid he will actually know what to do when he has to stay under the salary cap. The guy is a DISASTER.

Jamaicanadian

10-27-2009, 09:15 AM

I haven't read everything above but I must add that we dont have the depth to trade Amado. I remember when we secured his services a lot of peeps were concerned about his temperment. I love his game/skill/technique...so effortless. More times than not he's given everything and has been an impact player on this squad; even when we just took a 5 love.....

Cashcleaner

10-27-2009, 09:33 AM

there are some points I don't agree with, but many that I do.

I'm just happy people are calling out for answers.

We definitely need more people in the media with an ear of the club to ask these questions. It's unfortunate, but no matter how unified the fans and supporters are over what we see as obstacles in the way of progress for the club, we don't have the sort of legitimacy that people in the press do. It's time for everyone that can to voice their opinion on the result of this season.

Dave67

10-27-2009, 10:39 AM

Candu_88

10-27-2009, 10:41 AM

Good article by Kristian and yes Mo is the problem. I disagree with several of his FACTS though. With no wingers, two slow central defenders (Garcia, Serioux), no effective lone striker, best players all central midfielders and two full backs with more attacking than defending instincts playing 3-5-2 with wingbacks is the best formation for this squad. 3-5-2 actually historically owns 4-4-2 as long as you have speedy wingbacks. Wide players didn't end 3-5-2 it was the unbalance caused by teams playing with lone strikers. Against lone strikers the fullbacks in 4-4-2 push up into the midfield and is is more like 2-6-2 formation. If playing 3-5-2 against a lone striker you adjust and sweep behind the midfield playing more like a 2-1-5-2.

TFC have lost the midfield battles for the majority of 2007 and 2008. That is when Robinson played every game. Robbo is not a ball winner and isn't a skilled distributer and doesn't have the work rate to be a box to box midfielder in 4-4-2 (he never supports the attacks look at his scoring rate over three years). His positioning is very good in the way he slots back into the defense to cover holes when under attack. He can't play pure defense because he is easily dribbled around by speedy strikers. My personal preference is for ball winning aggressive ratters (holders). Keep Guevara not Robinson. JDG, Cronin and Samyang give us the depth with need there.

Cummins runs great practices and was a classy encouraging but inexperienced manager. His tactics were forced on him by the unbalanced squad. He is only guilty of making the wrong substitutions, or no substitutions, at the wrong times and maybe not addressing the alleged dressing room issues.

DeRo works hard and is a threat but has made numerous mental errors all year. Leads the league in offsides when playing midfield WTF!!?? A ball hog that doesn't reward White when he makes great timed diagonal runs. Blasts over the net too often and when he does defend back concededs way too many free kicks. I didn't see a change in his play when JDG joined TFC. Too be fully effective as an AMC the next manager is going to have to work on Dero's ball sharing and link-ups and overlaps with the withdrawn striker.

I do give Kristian credit for calling out the fact that there are flaws at MSLE and the TFC senior management.

S_D

10-27-2009, 10:42 AM

Thank God someone brought this up. A great team needs bench strength. When Amado is on he is the best player on the team. He is a game changer.

You can't pay your bench players 300K. The salary cap won't allow that. We have too many central mids anyways. A few have to get the chop. It is just deciding on who can go.

Jamaicanadian

10-27-2009, 11:44 AM

You can't pay your bench players 300K. The salary cap won't allow that. We have too many central mids anyways. A few have to get the chop. It is just deciding on who can go.

How much do we pay Vitti????...In my world he's a bench player (unfortunately)<--meaning he didn't live up to his salary and/or Mo's hype......

Dave67

10-27-2009, 11:51 AM

You can't pay your bench players 300K. The salary cap won't allow that. We have too many central mids anyways. A few have to get the chop. It is just deciding on who can go.

What if the salary cap goes up in the offseason? Amado is to strong of a player to just cut free. I would send Vitti packing or Brennan packing long before Amado.

I wonder if there is a way to just buy Barrett out and be rid of him?

felipe

10-27-2009, 11:53 AM

Why the hell would you want to get rid of barrett? You can't be serious

Section 117

10-27-2009, 12:05 PM

There is more dead wood on this team than Barrett

S_D

10-27-2009, 12:13 PM

What if the salary cap goes up in the offseason? Amado is to strong of a player to just cut free. I would send Vitti packing or Brennan packing long before Amado.

I wonder if there is a way to just buy Barrett out and be rid of him?

And replace them with who? Still have to pay for replacements. Mo spent almost a million more on the cap this year and unless we sell another Edu, that is going down by 500K leaving us with the you suck bonus of 300K

So look at it this way, unless there is a significant increase in the salary cap, we need to knock off salaries just to stay under the cap. And then you still have to go out and get a set of wingers, a LB and CB's?

As I said early this year something has got to give. There has to be cuts in the central midfield as that is where a lot of money is on this team. Someone is going to have to retire or get traded and Mo is going to have to get draft picks (G.A. players) to stay down and be fully stocked. Don't forget we had 3 roster spots open and it was disasterous to say the least.

Whoop

10-27-2009, 12:13 PM

There is more dead wood on this team than Barrett

I think you are right on that one.

Even though Barrett is inept.

Davenport

10-27-2009, 12:34 PM

Why the hell would you want to get rid of barrett? You can't be serious

Probably.
Why would anyone want to keep a sulky, non-scoring forward ?

Shaughno

10-27-2009, 12:36 PM

People worried about the salaries of players and room under the cap, should wait at the very least, until the new CBA has been discussed and announced. IMO it's pointless talking salaries until that time.

Dave67

10-27-2009, 12:38 PM

Why the hell would you want to get rid of barrett? You can't be serious

You want to keep him? You can't be serious. I mean he runs his ass off and I admire him for it, but he can't cross a ball to save his life, he passes like he is playing with a beachball and he can't score. [edit] but I don't think we can get rid of him easily due to his contract

Mikey

10-27-2009, 01:13 PM

Why the hell would you want to get rid of barrett? You can't be serious

Why?
because last season I got sick of watching him get fed good passes into one on one breakouts inside the 18 yard box, only to see him kick the ball straight to the keeper with as much force as a seven year old girl could muster.

His goal socring record speaks for itself.....:picard:

Big Bruva

10-27-2009, 01:26 PM

* People need to stop joining a bandwagon they have no idea about, i have seen it so many times with the TFC fans and its terrible. Amado might have been a distraction in past clubs he has been at but please tell me all your sources that point to Amado being a bad apple at TFC. The man hardly speaks much english and is very quiet, gets on with CC and the coaches very well, usually after matches you hear Amado and the coaches (usually CC) talking about going to eat etc the way he is on and off the pitch is totally from one extreme to the other coz on the pitch he shows a lot of passion and does sulk here and there but thats more showing his displeasure to the officials etc. Going into the changing room after a loss and being mad shows me that this guy cares that they just lost where as if he was quiet after each loss maybe how Vitti is people might be thinking "this guy does not care and is here for the money"

There is more evidence that meets the eye of DeRo being a bad apple than Amado when you think of DeRo's statements about grass, about the team etc (not saying DeRo is a bad apple)

I said awhile ago that Amado and his wife were looking to go back to Hondorus and there is a good possiblity he will do this especially being a year older, the baby and with the WC and all. TFC are stacked with CM and seems to be the likes of the CM's that are making the most money so it will not shock me if he leaves.

* Robbo: is on big money yeah but totally understand what KJ is saying, Robbo playing DM should be ideal for JDG coz Robbo takes 2-3 touches the most and passes and the likes of Julian and DeRo need to be on the ball a lot. Robbo is a ball winner and can break up the play well but once again does Robbo wanna stay and can the money be sorted?

* DeRo: said it before that he is gonna want more money now and since Mo is a stats kinda guy (dont get me started) DeRo will point to his stats and since Mo mentioned DeRos age and the snake movements with the DP situation etc that just motivated him even more so DeRo will have a leg to stand on when approaching Mo, question is what amount is DeRo looking for and how will that affect the cap?

* JDG: i said when Julian first came that i wanted to see how it was gonna work coz the likes of DeRo and Amado are ball hungry players and JDG being the DP the play will have to go through him much more so how will that 1 ball be shared between the 3 of them. The challenge for Julian is maintaining his La Liga level at TFC which many believe will be hard for him to do.

Many are saying TFC need Julian to be an attacking mid which is Amado's role and many are saying that coz he is DP and its kinda hard to warrent a player getting all that money to play DM BUT at the same time what made Julian a very good player in La Liga and Germany is playing his position and doing the things which make him quality in the DM position, would Julian be able to play in Spain & Germany as an attackign mid? i know this is the MLS and a lower level but are you expecting Julian to have the same kinda stats like DeRo and Amado? (just a question)

Bright spots: Frei, Nana, Sanyang, Gomes, Cronin

Shaughno

10-27-2009, 01:29 PM

Great post Bruv. Touched on basically everything I've been pondering for this whole season.

S_D

10-27-2009, 01:32 PM

Roogsy

10-27-2009, 01:34 PM

I agree with Big Bruva...

felipe

10-27-2009, 01:34 PM

Alright BB, please give us your opinion about Barrett now, if you'd like

Roogsy

10-27-2009, 01:35 PM

CBA has nothing to do with the cap :)

Yes and no. This is sort of true and sort of not true.

S_D

10-27-2009, 01:36 PM

Great post Bruv. Touched on basically everything I've been pondering for this whole season.

totally agree.

S_D

10-27-2009, 01:43 PM

Yes and no. This is sort of true and sort of not true.

the cap has no ties with the CBA with the exception of the minimum wages so you are correct that it does and doesn't, but I think most people are in agreement that we need to see that increase to make a dev position more attractive than working at McD's. If that is a way to push up the cap then so be it.

but anyways I digress and back on topic... Mo you suck as a GM :)

Roogsy

10-27-2009, 01:44 PM

Don't forget roster sizes are also a part of the CBA.

Since both minimum wages, roster sizes etc. all form part of the CBA, then they automatically influence the salary cap, which is determined by the league of course, not the CBA.

Shaughno

10-27-2009, 01:44 PM

^^ That's sort of what I was getting at but didn't have the time to type it all out LOL.

I think they will be really pushing to up the league minimum's, which will in turn force them to raise the cap level at the same time. IMO of course.

FluSH

10-27-2009, 02:15 PM

I agree with Roogsy agreeing on Big Bruva

Roogsy

10-27-2009, 02:17 PM

:lol:

Shaughno

10-27-2009, 02:18 PM

I agree with Flush agreeing with Roogsy agreeing with Big Bruva...

flatpicker

10-27-2009, 02:27 PM

^ agreed.

FluSH

10-27-2009, 02:44 PM

^^^
You just messed it up1!!! lol

flatpicker

10-27-2009, 02:54 PM

^ I go my own way man!

FluSH

10-27-2009, 02:57 PM

^^^
Artists...

=P

Shakes McQueen

10-27-2009, 03:21 PM

I disagree with your agreement, and moreover, I agree with anyone that agrees with me!

- Scott

Super

10-27-2009, 04:10 PM

I disagree with your agreement, and moreover, I agree with anyone that agrees with me!

- Scott

I disagree with you that you agree with anyone that agrees with you. Umm..

jloome

10-27-2009, 06:51 PM

I disagree with you that you agree with anyone that agrees with you. Umm..

I think we can agree that in disagreeing, everyone is still in agreement about the early agreed points that later caused disagreement, right up to and including the point where we noted that the aforementioned was agreed.

S_D

10-27-2009, 07:30 PM

I think we can agree that in disagreeing, everyone is still in agreement about the early agreed points that later caused disagreement, right up to and including the point where we noted that the aforementioned was agreed.

which was what hahaha

boban

10-27-2009, 08:21 PM

He lost me when he said a defender is the team's biggest need.
next.

greatwhitenorf

10-27-2009, 09:41 PM

Now THAT is 100 times better than what Jason De Vos wrote. He actually did point fingers and single out players for criticism. And his criticisms were backed up by analytical comments.

CBC needs to figure out whether they want gutsy commentators that can offer anything worth reading, like this, or merely 'property managers'.

TFCRegina

10-28-2009, 06:15 PM

He lost me when he said a defender is the team's biggest need.
next.

You're right. We need more midfielders. In fact, I think we should run a 0-10-0, because quite frankly, the 4-4-2 is an antiquated, backwards formation.

jloome

10-28-2009, 06:30 PM

totally agree.

Really? Seemed straight-up self-evident to me, and did nothing to elaborate on who has heart and who doesn't.

boban

10-28-2009, 06:52 PM

You're right. We need more midfielders. In fact, I think we should run a 0-10-0, because quite frankly, the 4-4-2 is an antiquated, backwards formation.
I know you are being cheeky but you clearly don't understand the game.
There is more to the game than defenders and midfielders.

werewolf

10-28-2009, 06:58 PM

I wonder what kind of package we could put together to get one of the top two scorers in the league from this season?

Blazer

10-28-2009, 07:09 PM

What are you talking about? What analyst is trying to become coach?

And Leo Rautins played in the NBA. He wasn't exactly some noob to the game of basketball.

Leo Rautins is a nobb, sorry.

DreFuss

10-30-2009, 10:55 AM

I personally think DeRo had a great season. Anyone else agree?

Ossington Mental Youth

10-30-2009, 11:25 AM

yes, i agree wholeheartedly

rocker

10-30-2009, 12:28 PM

I personally think DeRo had a great season. Anyone else agree?

ya... although seeing him every week, I came to realize his flaws alongside his great skills and determination.

so while in the past I had an inflated view of DeRo (he could do no wrong in my eyes), now I'm a bit more realistic about him... which is really weird!!!

DreFuss

10-30-2009, 02:34 PM

ya... although seeing him every week, I came to realize his flaws alongside his great skills and determination.

so while in the past I had an inflated view of DeRo (he could do no wrong in my eyes), now I'm a bit more realistic about him... which is really weird!!!

Yeah, I agree. I think Kristian Jack has a point with him disappearing once JDG got here, but I don't think that down-grades his season. He was, IMO, the best TFC player this year and if anyone is going to get close to a great season DeRo is first in line.

TFCRegina

10-30-2009, 10:21 PM

I know you are being cheeky but you clearly don't understand the game.
There is more to the game than defenders and midfielders.

Unfortunately boban, Managers can't trade for intangibles. The only way you get that is through winning. And the only way you get that is if you have the right players on the pitch.

Kristian was referring to tangible needs...not the intangibles.

joel

11-02-2009, 12:09 PM

DeRo had a great season, but in the stretch how many times did he try to just 'do it himself'?

He struck me as a guy who had given up on the rest of his team most of the time. He would try to take on 3 guys at once and not pull the ball back and wait for support. He blew tons of plays because maybe in his mind he didn't believe anyone was coming to help him. And maybe they weren't coming, but shouldn't that be addressed with coaching rather than trying to take on the defense by yourself?

If CC tried to address that at some point, he defintely was not listening.

boban

11-02-2009, 12:13 PM

Unfortunately boban, Managers can't trade for intangibles. The only way you get that is through winning. And the only way you get that is if you have the right players on the pitch.

Kristian was referring to tangible needs...not the intangibles.
I was referring to tangible needs.

jloome

11-02-2009, 12:15 PM

james

11-02-2009, 10:14 PM

I personally think DeRo had a great season. Anyone else agree?

ya Dero set the record for most TFC goals in just his first season. And that was playing alongside other players who werent playing there right positions and players not getting along with each other.

Imagine Dero actually played on a good team with palyers getting along well and players playing there actual positions?? Dero could score twice as much goals then.

james

11-02-2009, 10:18 PM

if we want a good team next season that can make the playoffs we gotta play the season 100%. We gotta come out the gates fast. We cant be waitting till mid season for other players to show up on our roster. Having Amado playing in the World Cup i dont think his heart will be in Toronto till after June. Hes deffinitly not going to want to get hurt in March,april or May and he probably gonna be practicing often with Honduras and playing friendlies in those months.

Id rather take the money we spend on him and get a new good player to replace him at the beginning of the season and will play with us all year.

rocker

11-02-2009, 10:24 PM

[quote=joel;776723]DeRo had a great season, but in the stretch how many times did he try to just 'do it himself'?quote]

This is key. There are some games where he scored for us, but prevented us from winning.

Seriously: the guy is a tremendously talented guy, but he thinks he's C. Ronaldo, and he's not. He costs us a lot of chances, and if you look at his team-leading shot total (in the 80s if I recall), he damn well should have scored 11 goals.

he was also offside a league leading 43 times in 28 games.

i love De Ro but there were so many times when he had easy passes in front of him to open players... but he chose the most difficult play, such as shooting from miles out. or he had this tendency to go to the sideline with the ball, and then lose possession.

i understand maybe he shouldn't have had confidence in some of his "bad egg" teammates, but his freelancing all over the place doesn't exactly help build his teammates' confidence. And his MVP stats did what??? Finished out of the playoffs. So maybe he should involve his teammates a bit more.... cuz the one man show isn't enough.