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View Full Version : Who are these "bad characters" in TFC



flambe
10-26-2009, 11:28 AM
I know this might open up a barrel of rumour inspired monkeys, but I just wondered who ya'll thought are the bad characters in our dressing room and why.

KdotOdot
10-26-2009, 11:30 AM
DeRo. He's from fucking Scarbourough. End thread.

Jay P
10-26-2009, 11:31 AM
DeRo. He's from fucking Scarbourough. End thread.


hahahahaha!

Hitcho
10-26-2009, 11:33 AM
I suspect it comes down more to a lack of leadership and authority from the coach as much as anything else. Put Nicol in charge of that room and the problems will likely disappear.

zeelaw
10-26-2009, 11:34 AM
DeRo. He's from fucking Scarbourough. End thread.
ROFL!

flambe
10-26-2009, 11:36 AM
I suspect it comes down more to a lack of leadership and authority from the coach as much as anything else. Put Nicol in charge of that room and the problems will likely disappear.

as in Cummins was more of a "friend" to the team and they didn't respect his authority?

nimamalek
10-26-2009, 11:38 AM
I suspect Brennan and Robinson, they've been captains since the start and we've never been competitive with them as leaders. Dero, Deguzman should be captains next year and Brennan, Robinson should be shipped out.

rocker
10-26-2009, 11:45 AM
I suspect Brennan and Robinson, they've been captains since the start and we've never been competitive with them as leaders. Dero, Deguzman should be captains next year and Brennan, Robinson should be shipped out.

well, Jason De Vos in his latest article for the CBC says Brennan and Robbo are leaders and all is good with them.. then he fails to say who those troublesome players are, beyond giving support to De Ro and Cronin. SoI guess the whole rest of the team is trouble! ;)

GabrielHurl
10-26-2009, 11:45 AM
I suspect Brennan and Robinson, they've been captains since the start and we've never been competitive with them as leaders. Dero, Deguzman should be captains next year and Brennan, Robinson should be shipped out.

I'd swap those 2 around

Parkdale
10-26-2009, 11:48 AM
Paul B. I'm sure he's the 'bad character' at TFC.

DOMIN8R
10-26-2009, 11:50 AM
The Ball Kids have got to go. You know they're the root of the problem.

Alarius
10-26-2009, 11:53 AM
1 word -> Bitchy!

Suds
10-26-2009, 11:53 AM
DeRo. He's from fucking Scarbourough. End thread.


:jaw:

Nuvinho
10-26-2009, 11:56 AM
This thread could go wrong pretty fast. Don't want to call into question any player as a "bad character", since we don't know the entire story.

The only thing that I could think of, was maybe the players loved Carver so much, and didn't want to play for Cummins?

drewski
10-26-2009, 11:58 AM
DeRo. He's from fucking Scarbourough. End thread.

aren't like half the Canadian on the team fro Scarberia? haha

wzhxvy
10-26-2009, 12:04 PM
This might just be about style and temperment than it is about bad apples...I would say MAYBE: Vitti, Guevara, Brennan, Gerba...

Mikey
10-26-2009, 12:06 PM
I think it's the supporters groups and their unreasonable expectations like goal scoring and game winning that are the root of the problems at TFC....

Jay P
10-26-2009, 12:07 PM
Gala
Gerba
Wynne
Vitti
Guevara
Garcia

Tezza
10-26-2009, 12:36 PM
Man..this pains me to say but I watched Columbus/New England yesterday and Columbus brought on the Greatest American Hero and he ran around like a man possessed. He causes all sorts of problems and I'd just once like to see a player on our team play with his passion.

Why can't we find a Crazy-mentally challenged-guy like Columbus? He flails around as if his arms and legs are independant of his body yet he seems to actually have talent and can score.

Pigfynn
10-26-2009, 12:37 PM
What kind of influence could Gala, Vitti or Garcia really have on the locker room? I mean I wouldn't be concerned about anything they had to say or anything they did and it's hard to imagine anyone else would either.

brad
10-26-2009, 12:44 PM
Ben Knight said in his latest column that was a conflict in the dressing room over how much playing time Barrett was getting. Seems related to me.

Beach_Red
10-26-2009, 12:46 PM
This thread could go wrong pretty fast. Don't want to call into question any player as a "bad character", since we don't know the entire story.

The only thing that I could think of, was maybe the players loved Carver so much, and didn't want to play for Cummins?

Well, they didn't play for Carver, either. Remember the home opener (though I understand if you don't want to ;)).

Parkdale
10-26-2009, 12:52 PM
okay, so if Barrett and DeRo are at odds with each other......how come they are both wearing the same damn ugly yellow pumas? Dero wore them first, then Chad did in the next home match. Is Chad stealing DeRo's shoes, as well as his position?

Shway
10-26-2009, 12:54 PM
aren't like half the Canadian on the team fro Scarberia? haha

yea, Dero, De Guz, Gala, OBW,
or are we trying to paint an undrawn picture

Nuvinho
10-26-2009, 12:57 PM
Well, they didn't play for Carver, either. Remember the home opener (though I understand if you don't want to ;)).

That is true. Its very hard to say who is/are the bad apples in the dressing room.....maybe just too many egos in one locker room. Then I think to myself...why would a MLS PLAYER have an ego....for godsake you play in MLS.

Shakes McQueen
10-26-2009, 01:01 PM
Part of being a good coach, is properly managing the egos in the dressing room. I suspect there are no "bad apples" - just some egos run amok.

- Scott

Parkdale
10-26-2009, 01:06 PM
Part of being a good coach, is properly managing the egos in the dressing room. I suspect there are no "bad apples" - just some egos run amok.

- Scott

very true.

every team needs to have some ego. I personally believe that in many cases, it's absolutely critical for people to have a big ego to be successful at what they do. Look at someone like Shaq, Tiger Woods, C.Ronaldo, Bolt, etc etc. The absolute 'best of the best' need to know they are the best of the best and demand nothing short of that from themselves and their teammates. Does it mean they can throw a hissy fit if they don't get what they want? Absolutely not - it just means that sometimes you need to have a big ego to succeed in certain areas. What's important is learning how to manage that ego within the context of a team. Then you'll get the best players on earth (Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Gretsky, Zidane etc)

Section 117
10-26-2009, 01:09 PM
IMO i don't think its an individual thing I think that there a couple of different cliques within the squad. That do not see eye to eye.

The sad thing is that what is happening is more due to desire and pride then just being a bad apple. People don't like getting called out and that upsets them. If you watch previous games look at who celebrates with the person that scores and you can see the division there.

Plus from what I hear there is a rat in the change room and that can not help to build confidence when you need to watch what you say in the change room which is suppose to be confidential

We need to clean house for this team to be as successful as we want it to be the problem is that it starts from the top and if that there is no change up top then nothing will change.

Just my 2 cents

Beach_Red
10-26-2009, 01:14 PM
very true.

every team needs to have some ego. I personally believe that in many cases, it's absolutely critical for people to have a big ego to be successful at what they do. Look at someone like Shaq, Tiger Woods, C.Ronaldo, Bolt, etc etc. The absolute 'best of the best' need to know they are the best of the best and demand nothing short of that from themselves and their teammates. Does it mean they can throw a hissy fit if they don't get what they want? Absolutely not - it just means that sometimes you need to have a big ego to succeed in certain areas. What's important is learning how to manage that ego within the context of a team. Then you'll get the best players on earth (Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Gretsky, Zidane etc)


Yes, this is very true. It's like this for most professions that get publicly judged a lot and where there's a lot of failure. Even Tiger Woods doesn't win every tournament. Even the most successful athletes usually only win slightly more than half the time they lose - so they lose a lot and need to have egos to get past that.

I've seen actors with huge egos manage them well and others manage them poorly, but I've never seen anyone get paid a lot of money to be an actor that didn't have a huge ego - something had to keep them going to all those auditions for parts they didn't get.

Most jobs just don't have the same failure rate as athelete so they don't have the same methods of coping.

wzhxvy
10-26-2009, 01:18 PM
IMO i don't think its an individual thing I think that there a couple of different cliques within the squad. That do not see eye to eye.

The sad thing is that what is happening is more due to desire and pride then just being a bad apple. People don't like getting called out and that upsets them. If you watch previous games look at who celebrates with the person that scores and you can see the division there.

Plus from what I hear there is a rat in the change room and that can not help to build confidence when you need to watch what you say in the change room which is suppose to be confidential

We need to clean house for this team to be as successful as we want it to be the problem is that it starts from the top and if that there is no change up top then nothing will change.

Just my 2 cents


Does the rat get tired prematurely and needs to get subbed off early ?

olegunnar
10-26-2009, 01:19 PM
Does the rat get tired prematurely and needs to get subbed off early ?

If you look at the RSL game he was the first to go congratulate Jimmy B after he scored.

BoltonTFC
10-26-2009, 01:20 PM
That is true. Its very hard to say who is/are the bad apples in the dressing room.....maybe just too many egos in one locker room. Then I think to myself...why would a MLS PLAYER have an ego....for godsake you play in MLS.

I've seen players in my beer league that had egos.

Suds
10-26-2009, 01:27 PM
Part of being a good coach, is properly managing the egos in the dressing room. I suspect there are no "bad apples" - just some egos run amok.

- Scott

Agreed.

I would also add that the coach needs to understand which player/leader on the team they are working with. Every great team has a player (or two) that defines the team. It's that player the rest of the team follows when they lay down the law either but words, actions, or both. Look at any great team in any sport and you'll find a player who set the tone and character for that team. A good coach knows who this player is and how to work with that payer to get the team to buy in to whatever the coach's plan is.

I do not see that in TFC at this point.

Suds
10-26-2009, 01:28 PM
IMO i don't think its an individual thing I think that there a couple of different cliques within the squad. That do not see eye to eye.

The sad thing is that what is happening is more due to desire and pride then just being a bad apple. People don't like getting called out and that upsets them. If you watch previous games look at who celebrates with the person that scores and you can see the division there.

Plus from what I hear there is a rat in the change room and that can not help to build confidence when you need to watch what you say in the change room which is suppose to be confidential

We need to clean house for this team to be as successful as we want it to be the problem is that it starts from the top and if that there is no change up top then nothing will change.

Just my 2 cents

If that rumour is true, then that is not good at all.

sulfur
10-26-2009, 01:39 PM
If you look at the RSL game he was the first to go congratulate Jimmy B after he scored.
If you're referring to Chad here, it would surprise me if he's the rat.

jabbronies
10-26-2009, 01:42 PM
The team does seem split right now, and based on how they play it seems that the Candian Sr. guys are bandning together - Dero, Brennan, Serioux, Deguzman. They seem to try and create plays on thier own. I'd say Guevara and Cronin have been accepted into this click. They are also involved in most of these break outs.

I don't think Barrett is being accepted into this group. They never pass to him unles they have no other outlet. He's been a last resort pass. Anyone know why he left early in the last game??

I don't think the team respects Edwards. I've seen numerous times and several different players dismiss his calls. They either wave him off when he's saying something or they don't move into the position he wants them to be in. Don't know why, could be personality reasons? I see no other reason why.

I think that the first group I mentioned are trying to lead the pack and if you don't follow suite, you're are being left out.

This is just what i see on the field. I could be totally wrong.

Section 117
10-26-2009, 01:42 PM
Chad is not the rat ....

Also, back to my statement regarding celebrations look over the enitre season not just the last game and you can see a trend develop

Nuvinho
10-26-2009, 01:47 PM
cliques:

The USA boys, the CMNT clique, the vets crew, and the younger african kids.

from what I have seen on goal celebrations. But then again, sometimes you just don't want to sprint 50 yards to congrat your teammate in the August heat at BMO...haha ;)

KRO
10-26-2009, 02:03 PM
The 'rat' is probably Mo's buddy Garcia. Chad doesn't strike me as rat material. His only problem is the inability to convert chances. I don't think he's a troublemaker at all. And as for him being on the team sheet every game, who else would you pick? Vitti is a puffball and Gerba is a total waste of space.

mighty_torontofc_2008
10-26-2009, 02:28 PM
DeRo. He's from fucking Scarbourough. End thread.


Dam you beat me too it..but since you brought it up your right...hes been fucking negative all season from his crying about the plastic pitch, ball hogging, and his gerneral selfish style of play... there is TFC's bad apple
lets can him!!

trane
10-26-2009, 02:29 PM
^ I am so suprised that you picked De Ro. Who would have guessed?

jloome
10-26-2009, 02:46 PM
I think this is being blown a little out of proportion.

I talked to one guy who has some knowledge about TFC's inner workings on Sunday and he said there are multiple players who, according to the core competitors, dog it in practice, play as if they feel entitled and don't fulfill their on-field responsibilities. They're basically playing as individuals.

Several of the names on here came up (Garcia, Guevara and Serioux several times, if that means anything), but there apparently is no consensus, because the lockeroom atmosphere is somewhat poisoned.

There is a feeling that upper management is pulling the on-field strings, the coaches are out of the loop, and playing time is not based on how hard you work in practice or succeed during game time. There's also a feeling by some players that playing in MLS is not to be taken particularly seriously.

I don't know how accurate this is, but this person's been bang-on so far. Apparently, there was no confidence in the backline, Garcia was played against the team's wishes, and Wynne has bitched constantly since being picked for the US national team about not being allowed to play fullback day in and out.

It's not a pretty picture, but it's not so much about bad apples as bad work habits; people think their spots are protected from on high and don't work hard as a result.

As for the guys working hard, the complaint against them is that it's mostly Barrett and DeRosario bitching that others won't, but both are inconsistent enough on field that the bitching doesn't do any good. Barrett is loved by the type-a side, loathed by the type-me side.

wzhxvy
10-26-2009, 02:49 PM
^^^ ooooooh thats good stuff jloome

Nuvinho
10-26-2009, 02:51 PM
yes, very interesting!

kitchener-TFC
10-26-2009, 02:51 PM
The team does seem split right now, and based on how they play it seems that the Candian Sr. guys are bandning together - Dero, Brennan, Serioux, Deguzman. They seem to try and create plays on thier own. I'd say Guevara and Cronin have been accepted into this click. They are also involved in most of these break outs.

I don't think Barrett is being accepted into this group. They never pass to him unles they have no other outlet. He's been a last resort pass. Anyone know why he left early in the last game??

I don't think the team respects Edwards. I've seen numerous times and several different players dismiss his calls. They either wave him off when he's saying something or they don't move into the position he wants them to be in. Don't know why, could be personality reasons? I see no other reason why.

I think that the first group I mentioned are trying to lead the pack and if you don't follow suite, you're are being left out.

This is just what i see on the field. I could be totally wrong.
IMO, this is right on. Based on the games I've watched, Barrett and Edwards don't seem to be gelling well with the group.

For 2010, DeRo should be made captain. The man's got fire in his eyes when he takes to the pitch:drum:.

Beach_Red
10-26-2009, 02:51 PM
I think this is being blown a little out of proportion.

I talked to one guy who has some knowledge about TFC's inner workings on Sunday and he said there are multiple players who, according to the core competitors, dog it in practice, play as if they feel entitled and don't fulfill their on-field responsibilities. They're basically playing as individuals.

Several of the names on here came up (Garcia, Guevara and Serioux several times, if that means anything), but there apparently is no consensus, because the lockeroom atmosphere is somewhat poisoned.

There is a feeling that upper management is pulling the on-field strings, the coaches are out of the loop, and playing time is not based on how hard you work in practice or succeed during game time. There's also a feeling by some players that playing in MLS is not to be taken particularly seriously.

I don't know how accurate this is, but this person's been bang-on so far. Apparently, there was no confidence in the backline, Garcia was played against the team's wishes, and Wynne has bitched constantly since being picked for the US national team about not being allowed to play fullback day in and out.

It's not a pretty picture, but it's not so much about bad apples as bad work habits; people think their spots are protected from on high and don't work hard as a result.

As for the guys working hard, the complaint against them is that it's mostly Barrett and DeRosario bitching that others won't, but both are inconsistent enough on field that the bitching doesn't do any good. Barrett is loved by the type-a side, loathed by the type-me side.

Are you sure your source wasn't talking about the Leafs?

Or is that just the way this organization runs all their teams?

Whoop
10-26-2009, 02:57 PM
Bring back Rohan Ricketts!....

felipe
10-26-2009, 03:00 PM
thats certainly food for thought - if that shit about garcia dogging it in practice is true and he was played against the wishes of CC and the rest of the team (and perhaps Mo's mole in the room) I'm sorry I ever stood up for him...

The rest of it, I can't say I'm too surprised...

werewolf
10-26-2009, 03:01 PM
There is a feeling that upper management is pulling the on-field strings, the coaches are out of the loop, and playing time is not based on how hard you work in practice or succeed during game time. There's also a feeling by some players that playing in MLS is not to be taken particularly seriously.


Fuad Ibrahim, 6 games played, echoes this. I bet he makes over 20 appearances next season.

Darlofletch
10-26-2009, 03:02 PM
But why would Serioux keep playing through all his injuries if he doesn't really care that much, or is the "too injured to practise properly but is a warrior so will suck it up and play through the pain" deal his ego trip. I hope not, i like Serioux.

and garcia came up as a guy dogging it in practise and feeling entitled? why? surely he can't think he's too good. maybe he know's mo's got his back so doesn't need to worry what Cummins and the players thought? or knows he's gone at the end of the year so doesn't care?

I should stop here, I'm just throwing out random theories. It's fun though.

sulfur
10-26-2009, 03:02 PM
I don't think Barrett is being accepted into this group. They never pass to him unles they have no other outlet. He's been a last resort pass. Anyone know why he left early in the last game??
Injury after the NYRB GK came in on him with that tackle about 2 minutes before Chad was subbed off. He was in a suit for the second half of the game.

Globetrotter
10-26-2009, 03:04 PM
JDG. as well as others, with regard to character.

Who's the most reluctant person to be on the team at the moment? Who didn't want to sign but couldn't sign elsewhere? Who is here for the money, but heart and mind are over seas?

sulfur
10-26-2009, 03:05 PM
Barrett is loved by the type-a side, loathed by the type-me side.

For some reason, I'm not surprised by this. I'd love to have 2-3 guys like Barrett on my team. If only for their work ethic! :)

TFCRegina
10-26-2009, 03:06 PM
I've seen players in my beer league that had egos.

Right here.

Hitcho
10-26-2009, 03:15 PM
I think this is being blown a little out of proportion.

I talked to one guy who has some knowledge about TFC's inner workings on Sunday and he said there are multiple players who, according to the core competitors, dog it in practice, play as if they feel entitled and don't fulfill their on-field responsibilities. They're basically playing as individuals.

Several of the names on here came up (Garcia, Guevara and Serioux several times, if that means anything), but there apparently is no consensus, because the lockeroom atmosphere is somewhat poisoned.

There is a feeling that upper management is pulling the on-field strings, the coaches are out of the loop, and playing time is not based on how hard you work in practice or succeed during game time. There's also a feeling by some players that playing in MLS is not to be taken particularly seriously.

I don't know how accurate this is, but this person's been bang-on so far. Apparently, there was no confidence in the backline, Garcia was played against the team's wishes, and Wynne has bitched constantly since being picked for the US national team about not being allowed to play fullback day in and out.

It's not a pretty picture, but it's not so much about bad apples as bad work habits; people think their spots are protected from on high and don't work hard as a result.

As for the guys working hard, the complaint against them is that it's mostly Barrett and DeRosario bitching that others won't, but both are inconsistent enough on field that the bitching doesn't do any good. Barrett is loved by the type-a side, loathed by the type-me side.

Oh man, we are badly in need of a hard as nails coach who takes no shit from anyone, players and management alike. But is Mo going to appoint a head coach like that based on what jloome has posted? Seems unlikely.

I've got to tell you guys, right now I am not even looking forward to next season one bit. All I can see is more of the same half assed shit, riddled with politics, and a poison filled dressing room, because how can they clean shop that thoroughly in one off season? Even if they fire Mo and half the playing squad, we're still fucked.

How did this happen? Man I long for the carefree days of season one, I really do...:(

Whoop
10-26-2009, 03:34 PM
Country club atmosphere.

Nuvinho
10-26-2009, 03:35 PM
Country club atmosphere.

The way MLS pays, they can't afford a country club ;)

Whoop
10-26-2009, 03:36 PM
LOL... just means some guys don't give a shit because there is no accountability.

Shakes McQueen
10-26-2009, 03:41 PM
JDG. as well as others, with regard to character.

Who's the most reluctant person to be on the team at the moment? Who didn't want to sign but couldn't sign elsewhere? Who is here for the money, but heart and mind are over seas?

JDG has been here for what? Six weeks?

Not to mention that, if you're right that he "doesn't want to be here", he's probably working his ass off to look as attractive as possible to possible European suitors that are no doubt keeping an eye on him.

You don't achieve that by being a lazy shit in practice, and not putting in work on the pitch. JDG isn't a problem. Nor would guys question his "right" to a starting position, considering his La Liga pedigree.

The names of Garcia and Guevara don't surprise me at all (from jloome's inside info) - Serioux is a bit of a surprise, but I suppose it doesn't shock me too much.

- Scott

Pookie
10-26-2009, 03:46 PM
I think this is being blown a little out of proportion.

I talked to one guy who has some knowledge about TFC's inner workings on Sunday and he said there are multiple players who, according to the core competitors, dog it in practice, play as if they feel entitled and don't fulfill their on-field responsibilities. They're basically playing as individuals.

Several of the names on here came up (Garcia, Guevara and Serioux several times, if that means anything), but there apparently is no consensus, because the lockeroom atmosphere is somewhat poisoned.

There is a feeling that upper management is pulling the on-field strings...

I wonder if there a relationship between the Real Madrid "Real Grass" issue and the "poisoning" of the room/mistrust of management.

Players tend to look out for themselves if they feel no real connection to the team. Their time here becomes an audition for the next step in their careers and management is tuned out.

I looked back on the announcement that a temporary real grass pitch was to be installed. Appears that it came at the end of May (29th).

At that point, we were 4-3-4.

After that point, we went 6-8-5.

It's not a huge difference but our PPG dropped after that point and I wonder if that contributed to any bad feelings that naturally exist on any team. Ultimately, Management sent the message that the health of the RM players was more important than their own guys.

At that point, I think loyalty goes out the window and it becomes a bit of a me first mentality.

This was about a month after Carver quits and a couple of days before Sutton is shipped out and Garcia ultimately ends up coming in.

On its own, maybe not the TSN Turning Point... but combined?

Hitcho
10-26-2009, 03:47 PM
This is what sucks about MLS. it;s hard to have meaningful competition for places because of the roster restrictions and cap limit. So if someone like Serioux is being a dick in practice, he's going to get picked anyway because there's no real alternative. And he also knows he's Canadian so it's harder for TFC to trade him away if the coach gets pissed off. So he can just mooch along, do the bare minimum in practice to get by and that's that.

I don't know if this scenario is true or not, it's just a hypothesis based on jloome's inside info, but you can see how it would fit together.

Hitcho
10-26-2009, 03:52 PM
Ultimately, Management sent the message that the health of the RM players was more important than their own guys.



I dunno about that. The turf was down from BMO Field being built. And we know now that MLSE has been working since well before the RM game to bring grass to BMO Field. Putting temporary grass down was the only way to get RM to come and play here. And frankly I think a lot of the layers were probably thrileld to get that chance. It's not like they could have laid down permanent grass in the middle of the season.

I think a sequence of factors probably combined as the season wore on. Management meddling in team selection, players pissed off and demotivated as a result, dressing room splits and even a dressing room rat. But grass for RM being the catalyst for the team's demise? Just seems a bit of a stretch compared to other stuff.

Pookie
10-26-2009, 04:00 PM
I dunno about that. The turf was down from BMO Field being built. And we know now that MLSE has been working since well before the RM game to bring grass to BMO Field. Putting temporary grass down was the only way to get RM to come and play here. And frankly I think a lot of the layers were probably thrileld to get that chance. It's not like they could have laid down permanent grass in the middle of the season.

I think a sequence of factors probably combined as the season wore on. Management meddling in team selection, players pissed off and demotivated as a result, dressing room splits and even a dressing room rat. But grass for RM being the catalyst for the team's demise? Just seems a bit of a stretch compared to other stuff.

I dunno about what you dunno :)

I think it was a big middle finger from MLSE to its own club.

De Rosario: "What does that mean for myself, a player for TFC, that we don't get that respect?" De Rosario said yesterday as TFC prepared for tomorrow's (4 p.m.) home game versus the Los Angeles Galaxy.

"It's one of those things you look at as a player and you're just disappointed."

"We work hard every day here, we try hard, day in and day out. We deserve grass."

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/TorontoFC/2009/06/05/9686496-sun.html

Shakes McQueen
10-26-2009, 04:02 PM
I dunno about what you dunno :)

I think it was a big middle finger from MLSE to its own club.

De Rosario: "What does that mean for myself, a player for TFC, that we don't get that respect?" De Rosario said yesterday as TFC prepared for tomorrow's (4 p.m.) home game versus the Los Angeles Galaxy.

"It's one of those things you look at as a player and you're just disappointed."

"We work hard every day here, we try hard, day in and day out. We deserve grass."

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/TorontoFC/2009/06/05/9686496-sun.html

Was it a middle finger to Seattle's players when they brought in grass for Chelsea?

I'm glad DeRo publicly pushed for grass, but I thought his comments in this case were a little off base. Especially when you consider in retrospect, that MLSE were clearly working on getting grass at that point.

- Scott

DOMIN8R
10-26-2009, 04:04 PM
Slightly off topic but relevant as far as "bad characters" discussion goes. Do you remember in the late spring the Kei K. vs. Garcia squable and Garcia called Kei a mental midget and Ching said....

“They’ve got a dummy in the center of their defense. It just gave us motivation to score goals on them,” Ching said. When asked why there was bad blood between the two sides, he added, “Because they have an idiot on their team.”

“(Garcia’s) probably one of the dirtiest players in the league. He elbows you off the ball. He tries to get under your skin, and that’s his game. I think his legs are gone, so he maybe tries to get in everybody’s head. He was successful, he riled up Kei a couple of times (in the earlier games), but Kei made it a point to punish him in other ways tonight. The dummy wants to talk, and I don’t think he has any room to be talking if you look at their record,” Ching said.

http://dynamo.american-soccer-news.com/?p=173

He was traded shortly after that incident. I always wondered whether he was traded to Mo as damaged goods.

trane
10-26-2009, 04:26 PM
^ I understand a CB, playing the Materazzi game, but shuold you not be big and strong to play that way???

Ben Knight
10-26-2009, 04:41 PM
There are certainly RPB's who know who was on what side in the Dichio debacle. It might be better if you hear it from them.

Chevy
10-26-2009, 04:42 PM
Part of being a good coach, is properly managing the egos in the dressing room. I suspect there are no "bad apples" - just some egos run amok.

- Scott

Post of the month.

Similar to what Capello has done with the English squad, we need a coach that simply does not care who a player is, what they have done or how much they make. Somebody that would sit DeRosario or DeGuzman down for a few weeks and not even blink (not saying that should ever happen, just an example)

FluSH
10-26-2009, 04:48 PM
Man..this pains me to say but I watched Columbus/New England yesterday and Columbus brought on the Greatest American Hero and he ran around like a man possessed. He causes all sorts of problems and I'd just once like to see a player on our team play with his passion.

Why can't we find a Crazy-mentally challenged-guy like Columbus? He flails around as if his arms and legs are independant of his body yet he seems to actually have talent and can score.


I saw this game as well... We were nowhere ready to take on Columbus or Chicago for that matter... I mean the Crew actually play as a team... I've been watching TFC since day 1 and watching yesterday's Columbus game reminded me that decent footy can be played in the MLS.

Pookie
10-26-2009, 05:12 PM
Was it a middle finger to Seattle's players when they brought in grass for Chelsea?

I'm glad DeRo publicly pushed for grass, but I thought his comments in this case were a little off base. Especially when you consider in retrospect, that MLSE were clearly working on getting grass at that point.

- Scott

I'm not sure how the Seattle players felt. I know how De Roasio felt and he appears to be speaking for more than one.

In life, it isn't what happens it's how you react to what happens. He clearly felt a lack of respect.

Shakes McQueen
10-26-2009, 05:18 PM
I'm not sure how the Seattle players felt. I know how De Roasio felt and he appears to be speaking for more than one.

In life, it isn't what happens it's how you react to what happens. He clearly felt a lack of respect.

When he, and every other player on our roster signed for us, we had turf. They all knew we had turf.

Bringing in grass for a world class club like Madrid, is just part of the requirement to get a club like that. It has nothing to do with "respect".

If MLSE brought in grass, not as a requirement, but just out of "respect" for Madrid's players, then DeRo would have an argument. But I have no doubt it was a requirement in the contract.

- Scott

TFC Cityboy
10-26-2009, 05:20 PM
re Garcia...we noticed that the first home game after he signed it was Garcia not Jim Brennan doing the pep talk in the player huddle on the pitch. Mrs Cityboy and I thought it quite strange that a newcomer would be doing this ISO the skipper.

I read at the time that he was a good communicator and a team leader, but I wonder if Garcia assumed he should step in and tread on others' toes....

If he is a lazy trainer plus he gave away a few soft goals the last few games, it might explain resentment from others.

gtaguy
10-26-2009, 06:18 PM
I think the garcia signing was a big downfall.. Instead of a solidified back line i saw a line in disarray and confused ... to be honest i think that garcia was a pure flop and did not cut it .. This has got to be mojo's rat in the dressing room...

Canary Canuck
10-26-2009, 08:48 PM
I don't think the team respects Edwards. I've seen numerous times and several different players dismiss his calls. They either wave him off when he's saying something or they don't move into the position he wants them to be in. Don't know why, could be personality reasons? I see no other reason why.

From the times I've seen him on TFC TV he comes across as an immature frat boy that still smokes bowls and does keg stands. Not exactly a professional personality that the players are likely to take seriously.

FluSH
10-26-2009, 08:51 PM
From the times I've seen him on TFC TV he comes across as an immature frat boy that still smokes bowls and does keg stands. Not exactly a professional personality that the players are likely to take seriously.


Funny you say that because during the pre-game interview I could have sworn Edwards was high...

Hitcho
10-26-2009, 08:53 PM
There are certainly RPB's who know who was on what side in the Dichio debacle. It might be better if you hear it from them.

Oh man, all these hints and quips are doing my head in.

Either spill the beans Ben or pass the info no to someone else to spill and pretend they got it from their own source.

What happened to Danny was really shitty. The club fucked him over. I'd hate to think he's going to get fucked over by the fans too if the few people that know what happened just sit on it forever.

wzhxvy
10-26-2009, 08:54 PM
I honestly dont know why we are beating up on Edwards...that I dont get. A backup keeper who did his job all season...its not his fault he lost. He is young and doesnt have "presence" but so freaking what...

He did the interview when he easily could have said no...looked dejected and like he had been crying...its not his fault we lost or missed the playoffs....he is as good a backup as you you can get in MLS.

westrouge
10-26-2009, 09:11 PM
I looked back on the announcement that a temporary real grass pitch was to be installed. Appears that it came at the end of May (29th).

At that point, we were 4-3-4.

After that point, we went 6-8-5.

It's not a huge difference but our PPG dropped after that point and I wonder if that contributed to any bad feelings that naturally exist on any team. Ultimately, Management sent the message that the health of the RM players was more important than their own guys.




TFC played most of their home games at the start of the season (have not done the math, but I'm pretty sure). I would think that that would be a more important factor than players' displeasure with having temporary grass for the Real Madrid game.

torfchamilton
10-26-2009, 09:23 PM
We are all trying to find answers on all of these questions, but putting everything aside, we are no further ahead than after year 1. We are saying the same things over and over. We still need a commanding center back. Obviously we know Garcia was not the answer. We have no wingers still after 3 seasons. We have tried Welsh, Robert, Ricketts and others. We still IMO have no quality forward. I like seeing a striker who can hold the ball up OR turn and be able to take people on, and also set people up. We have nothing up there, Gerba is useless and I have said it from day 1 before he came. OBW looks at times that he might have something more to offer, but he is still not a solution.

I like Vitti and I know most don't, but he is not on the right team for his style of play. We play a useless brand of soccer with a bunch of useless footballers. It's going to be a long year waiting for our CB and striker and wingers and coaches etc. That was a dissapointing season capped off by a nightmare ending. It is just a sad thing when you have so many people behind the team and it looks as though things will never change.

james
10-26-2009, 09:42 PM
you guys are beatting up Edwards but it was not his fault the team tied San Jose...he made some great saves that game. He got a shut out vs Real Salt Lake and although he did not play well vs New York, pretty much the whole team sucked vs New York. And if the team cant score a single goal in a game then we were never gonna win anyways.

james
10-26-2009, 09:49 PM
Gala
Gerba
Wynne
Vitti
Guevara
Garcia

i dont know, vitti was one of the few players on saturday at New York who looked like he was hungry to score. He was only on the field a few minuted when he danced around 2 players and just missed the far post.

He also doesnt speak english so im pretty sure he doesnt have any verbal arguments with other players on the team.

Canary Canuck
10-26-2009, 09:52 PM
you guys are beatting up Edwards but it was not his fault the team tied San Jose...he made some great saves that game. He got a shut out vs Real Salt Lake and although he did not play well vs New York, pretty much the whole team sucked vs New York. And if the team cant score a single goal in a game then we were never gonna win anyways.

In the words of Obama, "let me be clear". Nobody is bashing the guy's play on the field. I was merely stating my theory that his personality lends itself towards not being taken seriously.

Oblio2
10-26-2009, 10:21 PM
DeRo. He's from fucking Scarbourough. End thread.


S-C-A-R-B-O-R-O-U-G-H

And technically that doesnt exist anymore....We are ALL Toronto so all you east end hating wankers have to suck it. We are all joined in this City together now...Bwahahhahahhahahaha

MUFC_Niagara
10-26-2009, 10:37 PM
I think the garcia signing was a big downfall.. Instead of a solidified back line i saw a line in disarray and confused ... to be honest i think that garcia was a pure flop and did not cut it .. This has got to be mojo's rat in the dressing room...

I agree with you other the last line of absurdness. Garcia needs to go.

Pookie
10-27-2009, 06:37 AM
Shakes, if everything was all nicey nicey (is that a word?) and it was in contracts and everyone understood and looked forward to it... why go public with a "lack of respect" comment? Clearly, management and some players were not aligned.

As for the the original topic, its all speculation but when speculating as to Garcia and some of the newer players consider that this isn't the first time the team has flopped. You can reach back into last year to find examples of late goals and poor efforts.

If it is the same cause you either have to look at players who have been on both rosters and/or assume that there is something systemmic between management and players.

sulfur
10-27-2009, 06:53 AM
And technically that doesnt exist anymore....We are ALL Toronto so all you east end hating wankers have to suck it. We are all joined in this City together now...Bwahahhahahhahahaha
Naah, you're still in Oblio-town, we can still hate you. :D


Just teasing of course!

fetajr
10-27-2009, 08:30 AM
I suspect Brennan and Robinson, they've been captains since the start and we've never been competitive with them as leaders. Dero, Deguzman should be captains next year and Brennan, Robinson should be shipped out.

agreed 100%

felipe
10-27-2009, 08:48 AM
I'm sorry...DeRo is a great player - but he's not captain material. You don't just make your best players the captain. Its a culmination of personailty traits - not a skills contest.

And DeGuz? Does he even want to be here, really? He didn't show it in NY. (Although DeRo certainly did). I keep hearing that DeGuz thinks he's too good for TFC - (which he is, his talents are being largely wasted - but that's really besides the point) A captain has to lead by example - going through the motions doesn't really cut it.


So I vote no to those two.

I'm usually dead set against giving youngsters authority before they've proven anything - but that Cronin will be a fine captain, soon.

flambe
10-27-2009, 09:08 AM
In regards to captaincy, it's all about heart. I agree that Cronin could be a good captain someday, but IMO so could Barrett. HOWEVER, will TFC ever have a non-Canadian captain?

Candu_88
10-27-2009, 09:17 AM
Very interesting thread. He is my thinking. For three seasons this team has been conceding late goals and has been inconsistent. Several former players like Cummingham are performing far better away from TFC. The roster has changed very frequently and so have the coaches.

The team line-up has changed but the mentality hasn't. Dressing room problems have to be players that have been here a long time. What else is consistent? MLSE teams (Leafs, Raptors and TFC) are all struggling so that points towards the ownership. Director of Football Mo Johnson has been in charge since 2007. Good dafter but has changed the squad too frequently and has built an unbalanced one. I'm guessing that he has too much infuence on the team starting line-up, tactics too and coaching.

There is a reason why the vast majority of English football supporters and head coaches over there hate the European Director of Football set-ups. Team managers claim that directors take away their control over players and confuse the players too. Many of the best coaches won't work at a club that have a director. For example many people think that Dennis Wise is what messed up Newcastle. They are playing with heart in the CCC now that Wise has gone.

Get rid of Mo and bring in a experienced head coach with a harsher mentality. Nice guy coaches hasn't worked for this team.

C.Ronaldo
10-27-2009, 09:22 AM
From the times I've seen him on TFC TV he comes across as an immature frat boy that still smokes bowls and does keg stands. Not exactly a professional personality that the players are likely to take seriously.

haha
funny

my buddies and I call him the frat boy

He seems like he is here for the hookers and booze, but in reality he is a talented player that has been left behind/forgotten.

A professional he is not, but perhaps mentored correctly he can be.

jabbronies
10-27-2009, 09:25 AM
There is a feeling that upper management is pulling the on-field strings, the coaches are out of the loop, and playing time is not based on how hard you work in practice or succeed during game time. There's also a feeling by some players that playing in MLS is not to be taken particularly seriously.


This statement pisses me off.

Beach_Red
10-27-2009, 09:50 AM
This statement pisses me off.


Me too. It sounds on this board like a lot of unprofessional behaviour by some players is being excused because they don't like their bosses.

maninb
10-27-2009, 12:17 PM
Well after DeRo threw some of his team-mates under the bus after the match, I'd say there's a HUGE problem in the dressing room, you could also hear it in the Cronin interview.

lufc1919
10-27-2009, 12:44 PM
I heard Garcia likes to hide other players socks on a matchday.

Davenport
10-27-2009, 01:05 PM
I heard Garcia likes to hide other players socks on a matchday.
They should hide Garcia on matchdays.

felipe
10-27-2009, 01:06 PM
lofl

C.Ronaldo
10-27-2009, 02:13 PM
so is anyone going to list the bad apples

or at least list the apples that are not meshing with the oranges?

ensco
10-27-2009, 07:53 PM
I just thought I'd point some things out that are closer to evidence than opinion

- Garcia: in his first game at BMO in July, maybe 2 weeks after we acquired him, was clearly "being the man" in the pregame huddle. Lecturing everyone, he was pretty animated/agitated. Every else stood in a circle stone faced. I don't care how much of a "leader"-type you are, I thought (and think) this was a pretty strange way to conduct yourself right after you've arrived midseason. Combine that with his history with Mo, and his obvious on-field difficulties...

- Gerba: held out for huge money, and then was absurdly out-of-shape. Was the one player not to go out onto the field to salute the fans postgame RSL...

- JDG: not one player or coach talked about him today (except Mo, in the most cursory way). Not one. Not even a cliche about getting a full camp in with him.....

Let me be clear: my points above may have more to do with "popularity", as opposed to who is a "bad apple"

Super
10-27-2009, 07:56 PM
Ugh... Bottom line is that we're in for a loooong off-season of rumours, speculations and a shit-load of negativity.

Gwando
10-27-2009, 08:40 PM
Shakes has it right, there are no bad apples, or at the very least, just some egos clashing but, an experienced MLS manager (Yallop?) will in part sort that out. Additionally, shipping Barrett out on a fast boat to China (as my mom used to say) and bringing a goal-scorer (Can anyone see the benefit of JP Angel in Toronto?) and shoring up a couple of other positions, can only help sort out, settle down and focus that locker room. I think it is going to happen and I think good things are in store for next season.

ArmenJBX
10-27-2009, 08:49 PM
We could use a coach like Dunga right now. Doesn't give two shits if you're Ronaldinho the hot shot, or if your Ramires the 17 year old who lives on the streets, if you're not working hard every game, and in practice, and if you're causing problems, bye bye. Dunga knows how to maintain the Brazil squad, and excludes names like Ronaldinho and Diego (Gerba and Vitti) for hard workers (Sanyang and Cronin).

Dunga is critisized because his selections aren't popular...but they work. We need a coach who doesn't care who you are and what your name is. You should have to work your way into the squad, and not one player is a given. CC would always say that he would put his best squad out on the field. That's great. But he continually placed players who didn't deserve to start over some that did (aka Danny Dichio)

CC to me seemed like a guy who would sit down and play FIFA 09 the game before and see what worked. Then he'd field that team. He didn't really know how to use the players he had. We need a Dunga.

Bring in Dunga. :D

netsan
10-27-2009, 09:16 PM
I think that some players resent JDG's big contract because they are paid peanuts.

Also, the players are not respected by the organization. They see the revolving door and feel that Mo is just pulling at straws. They may disagree with Mo's decisions - like dropping Velez?

The coach doesn't command respect. It' s like having a substitute teacher - the kids run the asylum.

The bottom line is to CLEAN HOUSE - beginning with MoJo.

FluSH
10-27-2009, 09:25 PM
I think that some players resent JDG's big contract because they are paid peanuts.

Also, the players are not respected by the organization. They see the revolving door and feel that Mo is just pulling at straws. They may disagree with Mo's decisions - like dropping Velez?

The coach doesn't command respect. It' s like having a substitute teacher - the kids run the asylum.

The bottom line is to CLEAN HOUSE - beginning with MoJo.

Let's not only talk about JDG... it's Vitti as well.

Vitti and JDG...

but I mean do I resent my less than skilled co-worker because he is getting paid more than me? No I got upset at my resume writing skills and my interview negotiations... that's what I got upset at...

rocker
10-27-2009, 09:32 PM
i bet De Ro thought Vitti was a bad character.. or somethin.. how many times did De Ro yell at Vitti, telling him where to position himself... or how many times would De Ro refuse to pass to Vitti... (well, De Ro refuses to pass to anyone most of the time, so maybe not!). ;)

netsan
10-27-2009, 09:34 PM
Let's not only talk about JDG... it's Vitti as well.

Vitti and JDG...

but I mean do I resent my less than skilled co-worker because he is getting paid more than me? No I got upset at my resume writing skills and my interview negotiations... that's what I got upset at...

MLS' salary structure sucks. The bottom feeders barely survive and the rest fight for scraps from the table. When there is so little bread to share there's bound to be some bruised egos.

Whoop
10-27-2009, 10:36 PM
Haha... just listening to the DeRo interview.

"Championship calibre team is one to question. Because like I said champions are based off of tough game situations and rising to the occasion in tough games and I just don't think we had enough players that wanted to or maybe cramped under pressure." LOL

Whoop
10-27-2009, 10:43 PM
Jim Brennan doesn't think there are issues or bad apples. LOL
Oh man.

Rudi
10-27-2009, 11:16 PM
Let's not only talk about JDG... it's Vitti as well.

Vitti and JDG...

but I mean do I resent my less than skilled co-worker because he is getting paid more than me? No I got upset at my resume writing skills and my interview negotiations... that's what I got upset at...
I know you're not a JDG fan, but did you just seriously compare him to your "less than skilled" co-worker? Really?

JDG is by far the most skilled on the team, so I fail to see the correlation.

FluSH
10-27-2009, 11:54 PM
I know you're not a JDG fan, but did you just seriously compare him to your "less than skilled" co-worker? Really?

JDG is by far the most skilled on the team, so I fail to see the correlation.

hahaha

no I meant a hypothetical scenario more like DeRo looking at Vitti and thinking how is this guy getting $300k...

I'm not going to deny that JDG doesn't have skill... he certainly does... but I would have prefered a different role as our DP...

Ossington Mental Youth
10-28-2009, 12:02 AM
Johns Article is out
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/10/27/sp-mls-torontofc-cummins.html
doesnt name any names but i suppose it confirms some suspicions we all had

Rudi
10-28-2009, 12:06 AM
hahaha

no I meant a hypothetical scenario more like DeRo looking at Vitti and thinking how is this guy getting $300k...

I'm not going to deny that JDG doesn't have skill... he certainly does... but I would have prefered a different role as our DP...
Yeah, there's no excuse for Vitti, although I disagree about his skill.

Vitti's problem is - like Barrett - all mental. Unlike Barrett, Vitti is blessed with boundless skill. Something is keeping him from using that skill to becoming the world class player that he had the potential to be 3-4 years ago.

Of course, if he were to unlock that potential, he wouldn't be here regardless.

As for JDG, with Amado seemingly gonzo, the keys to the midfield go to him by default. That is, if DeRo doesn't step on his toes. JDG has all the tools to be a dominant player in this league, but he can't be limited to sitting in front of the defence and making short passes to other (lesser skilled) players to do the bulk of the work.

That comes down to tactics. Hopefully that will be rectified in 2010.

As for the topic of the thread, Gerry Dobson alludes to Nick Garcia being part of the problem in his latest blog entry (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2009/10/27/dobson_tfc_cummins/):


Several players have also hinted at a bad culture in the locker room. Nobody wanted to say who the bad apples are. That's natural. As I stated in a previous blog, Carl Robinson is not one of them. He is well-liked in the dressing room. Anyone who covers this team on a regular basis by attending matches and training sessions knows that. Reporters also know that defender Nick Garcia could be shipped out tomorrow and there would be few complaints.

FluSH
10-28-2009, 12:07 AM
Media speculation has run rampant the past few months about a divisive Toronto FC locker-room with cliques, feuding players and a general lack of team cohesion. Cummins didn't exactly substantiate those claims — he's a decent bloke, as the Brits are fond of saying, and he understands the perils of burning bridges.

Well... it's time for some of this during the off-season:

Team Building Activities
http://www.7springs.com/photos/multimedia/Photos/74_1.jpg

Do not drop the HR girl!

Whoop
10-28-2009, 12:17 AM
Reading molinaro's article and hearing the interviews.

Maybe there aren't any bad apples but there certainly seems to be a divided room.

Who's responsibility is it to bring the guys together on the pitch? The captain? The star? The GM? The coach?

I can't remember which player said it, but being a teammate means "dying" for your teammate. Meaning you give it your all and support one another. You might not like each other off the pitch but on it you will everything in your power to help each other out. To break it down in simple terms, I mean there are a lot of RPBs who I don't like and I'm sure there are some that don't like me, but when we're in the stands, we're arm in arm, singing, supporting the team.

In the end, I don't think the guys cared about each other.

And after all those stories about how team chemistry on this team was top notch and one of the strengths of this team.

I think you look at a couple of big issues...

1) The JDG signing and it's ramifications.
JDG is the most skilled player on the team, but the ensuing fallout since the rumour of that signing created a mess. That's on Mo. Either for making promises to others and then reneging on them and/or not reading the affected parties properly.

2) The handling of the Dichio situation
You know that was going to cause problems because you know for sure Dichio had friends in the room and seeing him handled the way he was just killed your spirit a bit. This has to be on someone higher up. Coach or the GM, you pick.

3) To lesser extent the Real Madrid debacle and bringing in grass
Sports teams treat their players like cattle for the most part. But as an athlete that's one of the caveats you accept when you play sports for a living. However, you don't want your team to outwardly demonstrate that. Getting grass for a friendly and in the middle of the season is a little bit of a slap in the face that you just can't shrug off. That one falls on the feet of the FO.

Blazer
10-28-2009, 12:20 AM
^ +1 on all accounts!

ensco
10-28-2009, 06:36 AM
1) The JDG signing and it's ramifications.

2) The handling of the Dichio situation

3) To lesser extent the Real Madrid debacle and bringing in grass


1) Would amend this to say: The JDG thing may be exactly like the Beckham thing. It's not the signing or the money, it's JDG's actions as a teammate since he showed up. Has JDG been a committed teammate from day one? Or is here to collect a big paycheque? The fact that no one talked about him at all yesterday was disconcerting/worrying.

2) +1

3) No.. The Revs don't have this problem, they lay down grass for friendlies without a team revolt. Plus that RM game was instrumental in getting grass for TFC.

Oldtimer
10-28-2009, 07:29 AM
Get rid of Mo and bring in a experienced head coach with a harsher mentality. Nice guy coaches hasn't worked for this team.

Agreed that we need a coach who commands respect. Also, if TFC is keeping Mo, the team needs someone who can stand up to him and be a real coach.

Oldtimer
10-28-2009, 07:32 AM
We could use a coach like Dunga right now. Doesn't give two shits if you're Ronaldinho the hot shot, or if your Ramires the 17 year old who lives on the streets, if you're not working hard every game, and in practice, and if you're causing problems, bye bye.

A Dunga type would work well, or a Capello type. Someone who understands formations and how each player fits in. They would have to be strong to demand that Mo brings in the right type of players, not friends like Garcia. They would have to also understand how to deal with the mix of good and not-so-good talent that forms any MLS squad due to the cap.

rocker
10-28-2009, 07:37 AM
Hire Steve Nicol for 3 years guaranteed to be the coach. Then if they don't make the playoffs under Mo next year, it's obviously not a question of coaching. Then fire Mo, and move Nicol into both positions. They won't want to eat the last 2 years of his contract, so they'll just give him full control. this is realistic given the fact that Mo is back next year.

koryo
10-28-2009, 07:45 AM
It's the tea ladies. Always the tea ladies.

brad
10-28-2009, 08:03 AM
I know you're not a JDG fan, but did you just seriously compare him to your "less than skilled" co-worker? Really?

JDG is by far the most skilled on the team, so I fail to see the correlation.

I would think would go the other way TBH. It's when you're "co-worker" has better pedigree, is more skilled, but does not deliver much more than you deliver - at a fraction of the price.

Not saying that any of this applies to JDG currently, but that's the big risk I've always associated with DP's in this league.

Candu_88
10-28-2009, 09:42 AM
Conceding late goals and inconsistent play has cursed TFC for three years. Garcia contributed to messing the playoff this year I'll agree to that. The dressing room mentality and club management has to be the main issues not just Garcia, Vitti and Barrett.

Those bad apples have to be players that have been here for three years.

I really like the fact that Sam Cronin has the cojones to step up and reveal that there is serious team issues. Everyone else is lying and hiding and denying there are issues but the results make it obvious that there must be.

Future team captain IMO.:scarf:

ManUtd4ever
10-28-2009, 09:48 AM
For the sake of professionalism, no names will be mentioned by anyone affiliated with TFC including mainstream media types which is exactly how it should be. Rest assured that MoJo is aware of the negative characters in the locker room and they will not be back next season...

tfc2007
10-28-2009, 12:06 PM
Amado.
Chad.

KRO
10-28-2009, 12:26 PM
Amado.
Chad.
Way off base buddy. Cummins yesterday specifically mentioned Guevara as a model professional. According to some 'insider' reports Chad along with DeRo has been trying to confront the 'bad apples' and create more of a team spirit.

Gerry Dobson hinted strongly that Garcia is a problem and my gut feeling based on watching him during games is that Serioux is another one.

C.Ronaldo
10-28-2009, 12:30 PM
alright

now we are getting somewhere

bad apples =
garcia
serioux
(and I'm assuming one of the young guys, a really fast one)



Im not going to add Gerba, b/c when he arrived here, he was ecstatic to be on this team.
However, him being out of shape and form could contribute to a bad attitude.

C.Ronaldo
10-28-2009, 12:32 PM
For the sake of professionalism, no names will be mentioned by anyone affiliated with TFC including mainstream media types which is exactly how it should be. Rest assured that MoJo is aware of the negative characters in the locker room and they will not be back next season...

how do we know this for certain?


He's pretty much lied about everything else

fetajr
10-28-2009, 02:50 PM
Terrell Owens?

Yohan
10-28-2009, 03:38 PM
this speculation game based on very little evidence is so fun, eh?

why not just wait and see until what develops, IE credible sources put out some good evidence

all this guessing game... well, i guess we have nothing better to do now that TFC is out of the playoffs

Ontario Arab
10-28-2009, 05:00 PM
Jack the Ripper?

FluSH
10-28-2009, 05:38 PM
Way off base buddy. Cummins yesterday specifically mentioned Guevara as a model professional. According to some 'insider' reports Chad along with DeRo has been trying to confront the 'bad apples' and create more of a team spirit.

Gerry Dobson hinted strongly that Garcia is a problem and my gut feeling based on watching him during games is that Serioux is another one.

Big Bruva also confirmed that Guevara was a pretty cool guy...

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=18192&page=3

jloome
10-28-2009, 05:40 PM
Big Bruva also confirmed that Guevara was a pretty cool guy...

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=18192&page=3

It's funny, I've talked to someone with inside info who said Guevara had come up as a guy who doesn't fit it, but everything public is saying he does. Maybe "doesn't fit in" is code for "doesn't speak much English". Or maybe he's disliked by the guys shirking their responsibilities.

FluSH
10-28-2009, 05:46 PM
It's funny, I've talked to someone with inside info who said Guevara had come up as a guy who doesn't fit it, but everything public is saying he does. Maybe "doesn't fit in" is code for "doesn't speak much English". Or maybe he's disliked by the guys shirking their responsibilities.

Well Big Bruva is the inside info... regardless, to me it's pretty obvious what someone with limited English skills will be going through... heck I believe even Velez said in an interview (Those one-on-ones) that Guevara gets picked on because of the language barrier... maybe that's how he doesn't fit in...

wzhxvy
10-28-2009, 05:47 PM
Depends on your definition of bad apple.

After hashing this out on this board, some leeks, hints and stories, here is my revised guess:

Bad Apple (different motivatuons or lack of, infected/affected others),:

1. Garcia (only 1 because of CC's comments wrt to 95% of the players he wished well, on a 20 man roster, that is 1 person)

Sour Apple (different motivations or lack of, but kept negativity to oneself)

1. Guevara
2. Gerba
3. Serioux

Here it is folks. Take it to the bank.

FluSH
10-28-2009, 05:51 PM
Depends on your definition of bad apple.

After hashing this out on this board, some leeks, hints and stories, here is my revised guess:

Bad Apple (different motivatuons or lack of, infected/affected others),:

1. Garcia (only 1 because of CC's comments wrt to 95% of the players he wished well, on a 20 man roster, that is 1 person)

Sour Apple (different motivations or lack of, but kept negativity to oneself)

1. Guevara
2. Gerba
3. Serioux

Here it is folks. Take it to the bank.


"Cummins yesterday specifically mentioned Guevara as a model professional"

Seriously, Amado can't win... we will twist the words until he becomes the bad guy...

wzhxvy
10-28-2009, 05:59 PM
There is no word twisting...we were Guevara's distant second priority this year and it showed. He played when he wanted, and took off the games he deemed appropriate to be ready for his world cup games. As a veteran, one of the highest paid players, he is expected to more than show up and play, he is expected to lead by example. I dont think he did. Did he go out of his way to disrupt or not follow team direction...I am not saying that.

WHITEY
10-28-2009, 06:06 PM
"Cummins yesterday specifically mentioned Guevara as a model professional"

Seriously, Amado can't win... we will twist the words until he becomes the bad guy...

LOL FluSH people just want him to end up being the bad guy so that their opinion of him from the time he arrived as a "head case" holds true and some people can just say "I told you so!" Guevara in my books was one of our better players this year. Did he fuck up on the field at times? Sure he did as did the entire team, but at least he showed some kind of emotion and passion when things weren't going our way.

trane
10-28-2009, 06:34 PM
^ I thought that at times his age showed, HOWEVER, he did show emotion and passion on the pitch.

canadian_bhoy
10-28-2009, 08:44 PM
I heard that the whole issue is because Jimmy B and Carl Robinson got in an argument about Andy Welsh's scoring ability. Jimmy thought it was world class, Robbo thought it was more of a continental europe class.

The other players took sides.

And here was are in this mess.

wzhxvy
10-28-2009, 08:49 PM
I knew it. Its the Gambians fault.

werewolf
10-28-2009, 08:51 PM
I knew it. Its the Gambians fault.

I once watched a movie on TV5 about mobsters in Senegal, and the big bad boss man of the movie threatened to send the hookers to The Gambia if they upset him.

Heathen
10-28-2009, 08:58 PM
I once watched a movie on TV5 about mobsters in Senegal, and the big bad boss man of the movie threatened to send the hookers to The Gambia if they upset him.

They were one country for a while Senegambia

wzhxvy
10-28-2009, 09:05 PM
Given we are on the africa topic, what happened to the Ivory Coast guys ? They have a killer national team...

werewolf
10-28-2009, 09:07 PM
they must have also been bad characters in the dressing room! They were sending a message when they took out Robbo.

Beach_Red
10-28-2009, 09:14 PM
Given we are on the africa topic, what happened to the Ivory Coast guys ? They have a killer national team...

Maybe they went to the A-League, I hear it's really good.

Oh wait, wrong thread...

DOMIN8R
10-28-2009, 09:15 PM
Wow - still on this topic. Why don't we just start another thread with a poll and get it over with?

wzhxvy
10-28-2009, 09:15 PM
One other observation since I am here...watch the press conferece...Mo looks uncomfortable, worried, worn down and beat up. CC looks refreshed, happy and full of energy. The natural observation would be that CC was relieved it was over, and could finally relax. However, I wonder if a part of him was enjoying seeing Mo squirm and get asked all those uncomfortable questions...bit of payback perhaps ??? I dont knooowwwwww

wzhxvy
10-28-2009, 09:18 PM
Wow - still on this topic. Why don't we just start another thread with a poll and get it over with?

Agreed, a poll resolves all issues...lets do it !

Categories:

1 Bad Apple
2. Good Apple
3. Rotten Apple
4. Unripe Apple
5. Ripe Apple
6. Damaged Apple
7. Half Eaten Apple
8. And finally a Pear in Apple skin

sulfur
10-28-2009, 10:03 PM
Don't forget the partridge in the pear tree! :)

DichioTFC
10-28-2009, 10:10 PM
One other observation since I am here...watch the press conferece...Mo looks uncomfortable, worried, worn down and beat up. CC looks refreshed, happy and full of energy. The natural observation would be that CC was relieved it was over, and could finally relax. However, I wonder if a part of him was enjoying seeing Mo squirm and get asked all those uncomfortable questions...bit of payback perhaps ??? I dont knooowwwwww

CC looked like that immediately after the game when they had an interview him at Giants Stadium.

Watching the press conference yesterday, it gave me a little more sympathy and respect for the man, but still, he wasn't the right man for the job and he was in over his head.

Pookie
10-29-2009, 08:08 AM
To say Guevara put our team as his second priority really isn't fair.

For starters, he missed what.. 5 or 6 games all season?

Secondly, his country did a heck of lot better than our country. Quite a few of the Canadians may have been in the same position if we were any better at soccer.

FluSH
10-29-2009, 08:54 AM
To say Guevara put our team as his second priority really isn't fair.

For starters, he missed what.. 5 or 6 games all season?

Secondly, his country did a heck of lot better than our country. Quite a few of the Canadians may have been in the same position if we were any better at soccer.

I would take Rambo from Honduras anyday over Gerba...

C.Ronaldo
10-29-2009, 09:49 AM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2009/10/26/celtic-ran-secret-drug-tests-on-striker-mo-johnston-reveals-former-boss-davie-hay-86908-21774265/


but this guy says he was clean.

maninb
10-29-2009, 09:50 AM
Based on what CC has said, plus the fact that he's considered to be 'Mo's Man' in the dressing room, and by what players on other teams have said about him I think there's a 99% chance that it was Garcia who was considered the 'cancer' in the dressing room...

billyfly
10-29-2009, 10:10 AM
I would take Rambo from Honduras anyday over Gerba...


How cool would it be to have Rambo and then "Hulk" (from FC Porto) on TFC.

Think of the possibilities!

EAsoccer
10-30-2009, 08:12 PM
It is what it is...ego's and attitudes...difference in pay...performances or lack of...same old story...starts up top with the GM to be honest.

First off doesnt take a rocket scientist to know that "some" of TFC players dont take the MLS seriously...too many off the field extra-curricular activities...(interpret how you may)

Secondly, when players say "culture" they mean as a pro footballer there are things you must and must not do in order for you to be 100% prepared on game day and in training...I have a hunch there are players not totally being professional.

All I know is that if I'm a TFC player making 30k...and player a making 300k isnt showing up or stepping up in the must win games...I'm going to be pissed. If a bench player is making a couple 100k more than me and I'm starting giving 100% and they aren't it's going to divide the locker room.

The Canadian boys are running the show in the locker room...Garcia was a threat having MLS experience...trying to take over in the huddle...was a bad move. I also think some of the vets, 1st choice players and big $$$ guys aren't stepping up to the plate when they should be..

some food for thought:

Dero - team MVP...but IMO didnt show up when he needed to in the MLS regular season...has the right attitude though and works for the team...unselfish player and was the reason we won the Canadian Championship so no complaints

Brennan - at times doesnt offer much...being captain other players may realize this and be upset that he stays on the pitch and is immune from criticism

Serioux - plays injured...and refues to be taken out at times. Don't think he belongs to any cliques...seen video with him @ Dallas...can be cool..but can see how he'd be a **** @ times

Robinson - never really rated although his experience is important, class pro from what I reckon

DeGuzman - havent been impressed with...full training camp will help and could break out next year, deserving of DP tag IMO...other players could think otherwise based on 2009 performances

Garcia - in my opinion, was a wrong move for the club...hasnt done anything positive from what I've seen ... only poor avoidable mistakes

Guevara - skipped out on TFC games for Honduras...regardless of the WC emphasis and importance...other players don't care as they aren't from Honduras...they only care about TFC

Gerba - has to do more for what he's being paid...TFC didnt sign him to come off the bench

Wynne - went missing due to injuries last part of the season, works hard dont have a problem with him.

Barrett - think he's an MLS out and out striker that can score 15/season...problem: lacks motivation and it doesnt help that Vitti is getting paid more with less production(goals wise)..if the manager has faith in him and plays him at striker & not on the wing he'll come good.
(look @ Cunny & Casey...top 2 scorers in MLS this year)

these are the main players...so based on this...the problem lies with these players:
serioux, garcia, guevara, gerba, brennan (you choose)

now as for the goalkeepers frei & edwards...excellent tandem for MLS...and they did their job this year considering age and experience. The Gambians look promising, White coming back from injury did well in limited appearances near end and should build for next year. Attakora & Cronin have been outstanding for their age and experience and could lead TFC in the future.