Let's Play "Trader Mo"

[ensco]

One

In Morgan Campbell’s blog Sunday, he printed this outline of TFC’s roster situation post the Phelan trade (direct from TFC):

http://thestar.blogs.com/torontofc/2008/06/a-little-clarif.html

2007 - 4 Sr.Intl + 3 US + 5 Youth Intl + 1 Youth Intl (via trade with COL) – 13 Internationals/3 of which must be USA

The League then added 1 International per Team + 2 additional US Internationals for Toronto (to be reviewed at end of 09), therefore…

2008 – 16 Internationals/5 of which must be US

Now…with the trade with NE for their Intl Slot thru 2010…

2008 – 17 Internationals/5 of which must be US

2009 – 15 Internationals/5 of which must be US (lose 2 former Youth slots as per expansion agreement)

2010 – 15 Internationals/5 of which must be US (could be less depending on outcome of review regarding 2 additional US Slots)

2011 – 13 Internationals/5 of which must be US (pending review in 2010 + loss of youth international acquired in trade with COL & NE Intl Slot)

Two

Now here’s our current roster (with salaries in thousands – estimated for Ricketts and Tebily). Note that total is $2.791 million, which even with the last place and O’Brien/Casey allocations, must be very close to the cap

Canadians
Jim Brennan---$165
Greg Sutton----$157
Kevin Harmse--$72


Americans
Jeff Cunningham---$257
Marvell Wynne-----$150
Todd Dunivant-----$104
Maurice Edu-------$157
Brian Edwards-----$45

Internationals
Amado Guevara-------$260
Julius James--------$45
Tyrone Marshall-----$154
Rohan Ricketts------$150 (est)
Laurent Robert------$337
Carl Robinson-------$330
Jarrod Smith--------$33
Olivier Tebily------$150 (est)
Marco Velez---------$60
Danny Dichio-------$165

So therefore.....

Mo's got two unused international slots, the rights to McBride and a DP slot. He has very little left in terms of cap space or allocations (maybe nothing).

If he's trading players, or McBride, he'll almost certainly be looking to trade or drop Americans for internationals (he could also trade Canadians, but it's impossible to imagine him moving Brennan or Sutton, and Harmse is worth nada), and he desperately needs allocations (cap space) to sign a striker. So a "Rolfe for McBride" trade, for instance, on its own, won't happen - Mo would still have the two international slots in that instance.

If Mo drops Cunny, he'll pick up approx $130K in cap space, but with Dichio's injury situation, that may not be a good idea. But given the international slots, I would venture that at least one of Cunny, Marshall or Dunivant are gone (assuming, as I do, that Edu and Wynne are untouchable).

Mo must be working the blackberry hard for allocations. In this respect, watch Chivas, who are the one team that haven't come close to the cap yet - they are sitting at around only $1.8 million. They'd be a likely fit, in terms of selling cap dollars (allocations) for players or picks. Too bad Galindo, who hasn't started well, can't leave the USA (because he's a Cuban defector with unusual visa issues) - he'd be worth going after.

(Not sure I have all the facts right here.....but I think the overall situation is something like this.)

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

One

In Morgan Campbell’s blog Sunday, he printed this outline of TFC’s roster situation post the Phelan trade (direct from TFC):

http://thestar.blogs.com/torontofc/2008/06/a-little-clarif.html

2007 - 4 Sr.Intl + 3 US + 5 Youth Intl + 1 Youth Intl (via trade with COL) – 13 Internationals/3 of which must be USA

The League then added 1 International per Team + 2 additional US Internationals for Toronto (to be reviewed at end of 09), therefore…

2008 – 16 Internationals/5 of which must be US

Now…with the trade with NE for their Intl Slot thru 2010…

2008 – 17 Internationals/5 of which must be US

2009 – 15 Internationals/5 of which must be US (lose 2 former Youth slots as per expansion agreement)

2010 – 15 Internationals/5 of which must be US (could be less depending on outcome of review regarding 2 additional US Slots)

2011 – 13 Internationals/5 of which must be US (pending review in 2010 + loss of youth international acquired in trade with COL & NE Intl Slot)

Two

Now here’s our current roster (with salaries in thousands – estimated for Ricketts and Tebily). Note that total is $2.791 million, which even with the last place and O’Brien/Casey allocations, must be very close to the cap

Canadians
Jim Brennan---$165
Greg Sutton----$157
Kevin Harmse--$72


Americans
Jeff Cunningham---$257
Marvell Wynne-----$150
Todd Dunivant-----$104
Maurice Edu-------$157
Brian Edwards-----$45

Internationals
Amado Guevara-------$260
Julius James--------$45
Tyrone Marshall-----$154
Rohan Ricketts------$150 (est)
Laurent Robert------$337
Carl Robinson-------$330
Jarrod Smith--------$33
Olivier Tebily------$150 (est)
Marco Velez---------$60
Danny Dichio-------$165

So therefore.....

Mo's got two unused international slots, the rights to McBride and a DP slot. He has very little left in terms of cap space or allocations (maybe nothing).

If he's trading players, or McBride, he'll almost certainly be looking to trade or drop Americans for internationals (he could also trade Canadians, but it's impossible to imagine him moving Brennan or Sutton, and Harmse is worth nada), and he desperately needs allocations (cap space) to sign a striker. So a "Rolfe for McBride" trade, for instance, on its own, won't happen - Mo would still have the two international slots in that instance.

If Mo drops Cunny, he'll pick up approx $130K in cap space, but with Dichio's injury situation, that may not be a good idea. But given the international slots, I would venture that at least one of Cunny, Marshall or Dunivant are gone (assuming, as I do, that Edu and Wynne are untouchable).

Mo must be working the blackberry hard for allocations. In this respect, watch Chivas, who are the one team that haven't come close to the cap yet - they are sitting at around only $1.8 million. They'd be a likely fit, in terms of selling cap dollars (allocations) for players or picks. Too bad Galindo, who hasn't started well, can't leave the USA (because he's a Cuban defector with unusual visa issues) - he'd be worth going after.

(Not sure I have all the facts right here.....but I think the overall situation is something like this.)


Moving Brennan is not that far fetched, we have Tebiley at the back with marshall and Wynne and dunivant so why not se if there are any takers for Brennan, another 1st rd pick would look good next season>.

[TFC07]

Brennan moving? Are you kidding me? I highly doubt TFC will trade Canadian players unless we get Canadian players in return. I except Cunny and Dunivant to be traded. Marshall might be another option as well.

[SilverSamurai]

Moving, Brennan? Are you insane?
Move Cunny and get some allocation space and bring in a striker. Cunny makes TOO much. Man this cap is soo friggin tiny!!!

[ensco]

Moving Brennan is not that far fetched, we have Tebiley at the back with marshall and Wynne and dunivant so why not se if there are any takers for Brennan, another 1st rd pick would look good next season>.

We just traded a first round pick for a bag of balls.

Yeah, it's farfeched.

[TFC07]

Quick question: Is Robinson a free-agent after this season is over?

[sweetlemon69]

I love posts like this that break down the internals of TFC, great post, keep it up. Only thing I got is Dichio should go :( I know, I know, but like mentioned above, his injury situation isn't much better. And Cunny is great imo when we have quality midfielders behind him to feed him creative passes. Dichio's getting older as well. Take him off the roster, put him in the office (he really loves Toronto and Canada from what I can tell).

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Brennan and Robinson are not going anywhere, look to move Cunny.

[ExiledRed]

Moving Brennan is not that far fetched, we have Tebiley at the back with marshall and Wynne and dunivant so why not se if there are any takers for Brennan, another 1st rd pick would look good next season>.

Are you Jimmy Brennan's jilted ex girlfriend or something?

[jloome]

I imagine they'd move Dunivant, as he's the most superfluous player; he's not a very good back and would never beat out both Brennan and Tebily, he's not as good a winger as either Ricketts or Robert and will never start there, and Smith is a capable and cheaper backup who shows crazy work ethic. Plus, if it's true Hemming is coming back, that's another guy who can play wide.

[jloome]

I love posts like this that break down the internals of TFC, great post, keep it up. Only thing I got is Dichio should go :( I know, I know, but like mentioned above, his injury situation isn't much better. And Cunny is great imo when we have quality midfielders behind him to feed him creative passes. Dichio's getting older as well. Take him off the roster, put him in the office (he really loves Toronto and Canada from what I can tell).

Dude, what are you thinking? He has four goals this year, continues to put together great finishes and holds up the ball up top better than most in the league. WHo gives a shit if he's fast? That's not the kind of player he is. Ask Teddy Sheringham.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Are you Jimmy Brennan's jilted ex girlfriend or something?


no ..not just a fan of his thats all..

[ua-kozak_TFC]

Those who say moving brenan i think are out of their mind... May i just remind you HE was THE first Player Ever Signed for TFC... so yea no way he;s leaving..

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Those who say moving brenan i think are out of their mind... May i just remind you HE was THE first Player Ever Signed for TFC... so yea no way he;s leaving..


thats a resaon for keeping him?:noidea:

[werewolf]

Dichio has 4 shots on goal this year and 4 goals, not a player that should be moved.

[J .]

Robbo I can see heading back to the UK

Cunningham should be the first to go

It is not far fetched to think that Marshall could leave either

Dunivant, I like as a backup, but at the price, there are other options out there and he is a starter on many teams. People underrate him, but he is rated quite well from my understanding and I think there are potential suitors here.

[ExiledRed]

thats a resaon for keeping him?:noidea:

Jimmy is the heart and soul of TFC, illustrated by the fact that he took a severe pay cut to come here and be a part of a football renaissance in Ontario and Canada.

He believes that TFC represents the beginning of something that will benefit future canadian talent, and to that end stayed with us last year and didnt go to the gold cup with the CMNT, Stating that he felt TFC's success was more important to Canadian soccer in the long term than winning the gold cup for canada.

He's played through injury, and continues to be a worthy captain and intelligent player. He knows how to burn down the wing and deliver pinpoint crosses, and he doesnt take shit from anyone.

In my book that's a reason to keep him.

We need Canadians on the squad, and Jimmy is the best of those we have, thats another reason.

[Northern Soul]

I'm dreaming here, but I would like a 3 team deal...

To Chicago:
McBride

To Houston:
Rolfe
1st Round Pick

To Toronto:
De Rosario
_______________________
To San Jose:
Cunningham

To Toronto:
Bag of balls

[Roogsy]

Northern Soul...you scratch where I itch.

Imagine this lineup:

------------Sutton------------
Brennan-Marshall-Velez-Wynne
-Robert--Edu--Robbo--Ricketts-
---------DeRo-Guevara--------

Sub: Dichio

OMG...

[ensco]

Jimmy is the heart and soul of TFC, illustrated by the fact that he took a severe pay cut to come here and be a part of a football renaissance in Ontario and Canada.

He believes that TFC represents the beginning of something that will benefit future canadian talent, and to that end stayed with us last year and didnt go to the gold cup with the CMNT, Stating that he felt TFC's success was more important to Canadian soccer in the long term than winning the gold cup for canada.

He's played through injury, and continues to be a worthy captain and intelligent player. He knows how to burn down the wing and deliver pinpoint crosses, and he doesnt take shit from anyone.

In my book that's a reason to keep him.

We need Canadians on the squad, and Jimmy is the best of those we have, thats another reason.

I think only 2% of people on this board need this explanation, the silent majority (ie the other 98%) already understand this!

You forgot to mention that he's a pretty good defender.

(he didn't have one of his better games Sunday, but who did?)

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Also DeRo has said that he doesnt want to play striker and wants to play attacking mid

[ExiledRed]

how many more fucking wet dreams about that hairy goofball twat, do I have to read on here?

Every week there is a 'three way' trade that is imagined to be the outcome of a fart that was heard coming from Mo's office, and it's ALWAYS for the twat.

Then comes the fantasy lineups with the twat in them.

You all want DeRo, I think I got that.

[J .]

DeRo is one of the best of our generation, of course people want him. I think it can and will happen. Him and Guevara together.... sweeeeeeeet.

[ensco]

how many more fucking wet dreams about that hairy goofball twat, do I have to read on here?

Every week there is a 'three way' trade that is imagined to be the outcome of a fart that was heard coming from Mo's office, and it's ALWAYS for the twat.

Then comes the fantasy lineups with the twat in them.

You all want DeRo, I think I got that.

I don't. I admire DeRo, but that's as far as it goes. (I'd opt for Rolfe, who has huge upside and has a modest salary, and the pick, in the hypothetical deal above).

You can't have two "lurkers" on the team (we already have Robert).

A large percentage of star players don't do well at home (there are exceptions, like Totti). The distractions affect the big names more.

If there's a hometown guy, he should be a sweeper or central defender. Like Brennan.

[ExiledRed]

A large percentage of star players don't do well at home (there are exceptions, like Totti).

Dont relate to that, coming from Liverpool and all.

[TFC07]

I'm dreaming here, but I would like a 3 team deal...

To Chicago:
McBride

To Houston:
Rolfe
1st Round Pick

To Toronto:
De Rosario
_______________________
To San Jose:
Cunningham

To Toronto:
Bag of balls

DeRo in T-dot would be insane!

[Roogsy]

Jimmy is the heart and soul of TFC, illustrated by the fact that he took a severe pay cut to come here and be a part of a football renaissance in Ontario and Canada.

He believes that TFC represents the beginning of something that will benefit future canadian talent, and to that end stayed with us last year and didnt go to the gold cup with the CMNT, Stating that he felt TFC's success was more important to Canadian soccer in the long term than winning the gold cup for canada.

He's played through injury, and continues to be a worthy captain and intelligent player. He knows how to burn down the wing and deliver pinpoint crosses, and he doesnt take shit from anyone.

In my book that's a reason to keep him.

We need Canadians on the squad, and Jimmy is the best of those we have, thats another reason.


Jimmy B is my favourite Toronto athlete. I cannot understand how anyone can underestimate his value on the team. But I shouldn't be surprised since it's coming from a Sens fan...LOL!

[ExiledRed]

TFC07, I agree, it would be insanity to waste a DP slot on an MLS player.

[TFC07]

DeRo isn't a DP though. He makes around $300K.

[ensco]

Dont relate to that, coming from Liverpool and all.

You know, that got me thinking, most of the exceptions are hometown "stars" that come up through their team's academy. It seems to give a player the right grounding in that community. Liverpool's had quite a few of those (Gerrard, Fowler, Owen, I'm sure you could rattle off a dozen more). It's funny, though, this cohort make poor transfer candidates, they never do quite as well and seem to bounce around once they leave the "mother" team.

[ExiledRed]

^^ and none of those players, (carragher too) cost LFC a penny in transfer fees, and they are all, or have been, worth over $10 million.

This is why Im stoked to see an academy in place, and why I want MLS to back off and allow us to bring in as many players as we like, instead of training them up and then putting them on the drafting block.

[sidney]

One

In Morgan Campbell’s blog Sunday, he printed this outline of TFC’s roster situation post the Phelan trade (direct from TFC):

http://thestar.blogs.com/torontofc/2008/06/a-little-clarif.html

2007 - 4 Sr.Intl + 3 US + 5 Youth Intl + 1 Youth Intl (via trade with COL) – 13 Internationals/3 of which must be USA

The League then added 1 International per Team + 2 additional US Internationals for Toronto (to be reviewed at end of 09), therefore…

2008 – 16 Internationals/5 of which must be US

Now…with the trade with NE for their Intl Slot thru 2010…

2008 – 17 Internationals/5 of which must be US

2009 – 15 Internationals/5 of which must be US (lose 2 former Youth slots as per expansion agreement)

2010 – 15 Internationals/5 of which must be US (could be less depending on outcome of review regarding 2 additional US Slots)

2011 – 13 Internationals/5 of which must be US (pending review in 2010 + loss of youth international acquired in trade with COL & NE Intl Slot)

Two

Now here’s our current roster (with salaries in thousands – estimated for Ricketts and Tebily). Note that total is $2.791 million, which even with the last place and O’Brien/Casey allocations, must be very close to the cap

Canadians
Jim Brennan---$165
Greg Sutton----$157
Kevin Harmse--$72


Americans
Jeff Cunningham---$257
Marvell Wynne-----$150
Todd Dunivant-----$104
Maurice Edu-------$157
Brian Edwards-----$45

Internationals
Amado Guevara-------$260
Julius James--------$45
Tyrone Marshall-----$154
Rohan Ricketts------$150 (est)
Laurent Robert------$337
Carl Robinson-------$330
Jarrod Smith--------$33
Olivier Tebily------$150 (est)
Marco Velez---------$60
Danny Dichio-------$165

So therefore.....

Mo's got two unused international slots, the rights to McBride and a DP slot. He has very little left in terms of cap space or allocations (maybe nothing).

If he's trading players, or McBride, he'll almost certainly be looking to trade or drop Americans for internationals (he could also trade Canadians, but it's impossible to imagine him moving Brennan or Sutton, and Harmse is worth nada), and he desperately needs allocations (cap space) to sign a striker. So a "Rolfe for McBride" trade, for instance, on its own, won't happen - Mo would still have the two international slots in that instance.

If Mo drops Cunny, he'll pick up approx $130K in cap space, but with Dichio's injury situation, that may not be a good idea. But given the international slots, I would venture that at least one of Cunny, Marshall or Dunivant are gone (assuming, as I do, that Edu and Wynne are untouchable).

Mo must be working the blackberry hard for allocations. In this respect, watch Chivas, who are the one team that haven't come close to the cap yet - they are sitting at around only $1.8 million. They'd be a likely fit, in terms of selling cap dollars (allocations) for players or picks. Too bad Galindo, who hasn't started well, can't leave the USA (because he's a Cuban defector with unusual visa issues) - he'd be worth going after.

(Not sure I have all the facts right here.....but I think the overall situation is something like this.)

I take it back ensco (from earlier post on Hemming). You should not just be the GM of a new Canadian MLS franchise, you should be the MLS commissioner! Well-done-mate and much thanks!

[DigzTFC!]

First of all, no need to guess on the salaries.

http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/6_5_08_salary_info_club.pdf

Amado : 162K
Ricketts: 200K
Tebily: 157K
Robert: 320K

so the great mystery is solved and you can have a better idea of our cap position. As for Amado, I'll predict some it was bought down by allocation. Like 100K or so.

Second of all, I'll throw in my trades I'd like to see done.

First team

Ugo Ihemelu (RB) ---> Todd Dunivant (LB) = less 30K for TFC
Tyronne Marshall (CB) and a third ---> Adrian Serioux (CB/DM) = save 25K
Harmse waived
Cunny waived (I'm not sure any team wants this guy)
Daryl Roberts signed 220K
DP striker signing

What does this do? We have a better strikers with Dichio likely to retire next year. More cover and youth in our defensive core. And more Canadians to creat flexibility with regards to international spots (so we don't have to keep guys like Harmse).

Developmental signings

Matt Britner
Thomas Kargbo http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=LA8XzfGm4u8
Justin Isidro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61w3nkXME08&feature=related

These are the kids that TFC need to pick up when they fall through the cracks. So Man United and Vitoria Setubol didn't continue their interest in these kids...it shouldn't be the end all be all. TFC needs to convince these kids the can achieve their goals through them.:canada:

:hump: I think most of this is realistic or possible.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

Nice ideas DigzTFC! I especially like the Darryl Roberts suggestion. I’ve been keeping tabs on him via Google news searches - he’s keen to find a club in Europe, but, apparently, no luck yet. Maybe that bodes well for TFC.

What are Isidro and Kargbo’s situations? Are they currently unattached? Ihemelu as a Canadian(?) and with his desire to play for the MNT would see to be a natural fit here.

[DigzTFC!]

Isidro was let go because something to do with the portuguese reserve league not playing anymore

http://canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14360&whichpage=4

I'm not sure what happened with Kargbo. I think he's still in Calgary or made it at Man U. Not entirely sure.

[ensco]

First of all, no need to guess on the salaries.

http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/6_5_08_salary_info_club.pdf

Amado : 162K
Ricketts: 200K
Tebily: 157K
Robert: 320K

so the great mystery is solved and you can have a better idea of our cap position. As for Amado, I'll predict some it was bought down by allocation. Like 100K or so.



That is weird with respect to Guevara. I know Guevara was previously shown at $260K, and if they're "buying down" reported salaries with allocation money, that's doubly weird.

I use the guarantee not the base, so the numbers are:

Guevara 185
Ricketts 212
Robert 337 (unchanged)
Tebily 157

also Brennan's gone up to $183

and the corrected total is $2.803 million (essentially unchanged). If you're right about Guevara, our cap position is worse than we thought.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Which is why Mo might be fighting to get Conde from Chicago to sell him off for another 2-300k to New York. Question is will we get anything else with COnde like moneys and or drafts and or another player...

[oxygenatedbrain]

For cap purposes, it's base salary...unless that's changed in my absence?

[SteeltownBhoy]

I love posts like this that break down the internals of TFC, great post, keep it up. Only thing I got is Dichio should go :( I know, I know, but like mentioned above, his injury situation isn't much better. And Cunny is great imo when we have quality midfielders behind him to feed him creative passes. Dichio's getting older as well. Take him off the roster, put him in the office (he really loves Toronto and Canada from what I can tell).

I really think the plan is to put him in the office after this year. He has his coaching papers, I really think he goes to work with Nick D and the academy next season.

I think thats what Danny wants also.

[ensco]

A close TFC observer ("Old Striker") has pointed out to me something I had missed, which is that we appear to be required to have 5 Americans.

So Mo has two options:

- if any of Guevara, Marshall, James or Velez can be reclassified as Americans, then he can replace one of Cunny or Dunivant with an international

- otherwise he will have to release or trade Canadians.

My guess is Mo will trade one slot for an allocation, and use the other to replace Harmse with a striker.

Could Mo or Carver be eyeing an international GK?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Ensco, unless we replace Cunny with another American striker (from Chicago?)
By got this is going to be interesting to see this all unravel

[ensco]

Ensco, unless we replace Cunny with another American striker (from Chicago?)


Sure. That's totally straightforward.

If he does that though, I'm not sure how he'll realize value on slot acquired in the Phelan trade, unless he trades the slot for an allocation, and uses the remaining international slot to sign an additional player.

What is a 2008 and 2009 slot worth in terms of allocation dollars? I wouldn't have thought it was worth much, but it's one of the keys to understanding what Mo is up to.

[oxygenatedbrain]

Velez IS American, as a Puerto Rican...Guevara and Marshall hold Green Cards, and therefore count as Americans...

Edit: We're not required to have 5 Americans...We have 12 international slots, and we can supplement that number with 5 extra American players, if we choose...which we do.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

What is a 2008 and 2009 slot worth in terms of allocation dollars? I wouldn't have thought it was worth much, but it's one of the keys to understanding what Mo is up to.

Very good question

[rocker]

That is weird with respect to Guevara. I know Guevara was previously shown at $260K

i thought Guevara wasn't on the April 8 list? There wasn't a May list was there? I should have saved the last one.. but I could have sworn it was April 8. The March 31 list didn't have Robert but the next one had him. But neither had Guevara.
Where did you see 260K?

185K for Guevara is a damn steal.

[ensco]

Velez IS American, as a Puerto Rican...Guevara and Marshall hold Green Cards, and therefore count as Americans...

Edit: We're not required to have 5 Americans...We have 12 international slots, and we can supplement that number with 5 extra American players, if we choose...which we do.

OK. You sound like you understand this better than I do :)

btw, I miss BBtB's input in these kind of threads....has he retired?

[ExiledRed]

btw, I miss BBtB's input in these kind of threads....has he retired?

He's still on bigsoccer,

John's a very strong willed individual.

Unlike myself. When he says 'fuck it' he means it.

I'm told the software change pissed him off, but I think it must go deeper than that.

[Lenny Dikestra]

BBTB was cool