Keep or Gone?

[Damien]

Thought this would be the simplest...

D.

[Nodoubtguy]

gone

....ummmmm, what are talking about?

[ArmenJBX]

Keep what? Gone what? I'm so confused :(

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

I'm guessing:

Cummins - gone
Barrett - gone
Fellinga - keep
Sanyang - keep

etc.

[Damien]

Fuck you guys are fast. lol

[ArmenJBX]

Ahhhh I see....

Definitely keeping same cronin

[Damien]

Ahhhh I see....

Definitely keeping same cronin

yeh, fuck me... :P

[ArmenJBX]

The high vote right now is 12 (at the time of this writing). Right now, I want to know this...

How can you not want De Ro/JDG/and Frei back next year?

WHO DUNNIT!

[Shakes McQueen]

Keepers:
- GK - Frei (Keep)
- GK - Edwards (Push)

Defenders:
- LB - Fellinga (Keep}
- RB - Wynne (Push)
- CB - Gomez (Keep)
- CB - Serioux (Keep)
- CB - Garcia (Gone)
- LB - Brennan (Gone)
- RB/CB - Attakora (Keep)

Midfielders:
- DM - Sanyang (Keep)
- DM/CM - de Guzman (Keep)
- AM - De Rosario (Keep)
- AM/CM - Guevara (Push)
- DM - Robinson (Gone)
- AM/CM - Vitti (Push)
- RM - Cronin (Keep)
- CM - Gala (Push)

Forwards:
- F - Gerba (Keep)
- F/W - Barrett (Gone)
- F - White (Keep)

"Push" means I'm on the fence as to what to do with them.

So looking at that list, it's clear we need another forward - maybe two. We also need another central defender, a full-back or two, and at least a left winger

- Scott

[Nodoubtguy]

19 voters and only 18 votes for DeRo?? Seriously??

[Shakes McQueen]

19 voters and only 18 votes for DeRo?? Seriously??

I assume that means Mighty must have voted.

- Scott

[Damien]

Guevara's been one of my fave 2 players on this team over the past 2 years, DeRo being the other.

But in some way feel his time may be done here just because he'll have his mind on WC2010 over the winter and spring. And after next season I can really see age starting to catch up with him.

This team really needs to have a constant influx of young talent if we're going to "fix what ails us"

[ArmenJBX]

Wow. No one likes the captain either lol.

[LesH]

Wow, this poll is almost as exciting as a match. :drum:
I really wonder if the lone voter for Cummins and Garcia is the same "wise" person... :facepalm:

[Bars92]

The two draft picks are at the top (Cronin and Frei). Haters have to give Mo some credit there.

[Carts]

For me, the biggest suprise is that Nana Attakora & DeRo don't have 100% keep rates...

If things keep going like this, I bet Sam Cronin's agent will use it in his next contract negotiation... 100% approval (thus far) over some local kids and our TOP PLAYER DeRo...

Carts...

[Nodoubtguy]

For me, the biggest suprise is that Nana Attakora & DeRo don't have 100% keep rates...

If things keep going like this, I bet Sam Cronin's agent will use it in his next contract negotiation... 100% approval (thus far) over some local kids and our TOP PLAYER DeRo...

Carts...

seriously....How good has Nana been?? I think I've just decided who is going on the back of my black kit!!!

[Cambridge_Red]

Ok explain in detail why the fuck we keep Mo Johnston.. This should be good.

[Cambridge_Red]

The two draft picks are at the top (Cronin and Frei). Haters have to give Mo some credit there.

Is it really that difficult to draft the best players when you have the top picks?

[TFCtoMUFC]

For me, the biggest suprise is that Nana Attakora & DeRo don't have 100% keep rates...

If things keep going like this, I bet Sam Cronin's agent will use it in his next contract negotiation... 100% approval (thus far) over some local kids and our TOP PLAYER DeRo...

Carts...

Sam Cronin has been awesome this year. End of.

[v00d00daddy]

Keepers:
- GK - Frei (Keep)
- GK - Edwards (Push)

Defenders:
- LB - Fellinga (Keep}
- RB - Wynne (Push)
- CB - Gomez (Keep)
- CB - Serioux (Keep)
- CB - Garcia (Gone)
- LB - Brennan (Gone)
- RB/CB - Attakora (Keep)

Midfielders:
- DM - Sanyang (Keep)
- DM/CM - de Guzman (Keep)
- AM - De Rosario (Keep)
- AM/CM - Guevara (Push)
- DM - Robinson (Gone)
- AM/CM - Vitti (Push)
- RM - Cronin (Keep)
- CM - Gala (Push)

Forwards:
- F - Gerba (Keep)
- F/W - Barrett (Gone)
- F - White (Keep)

"Push" means I'm on the fence as to what to do with them.

So looking at that list, it's clear we need another forward - maybe two. We also need another central defender, a full-back or two, and at least a left winger

- Scott

That's exactly how I feel too.

[Nodoubtguy]

Is it really that difficult to draft the best players when you have the top picks?

You know Frei went 13th.....right??

[huphup]

Don't see why we have 7 players right now with <10 votes and only 9 with 20+.. seems like everyone on the boards is always favoring the mass dump. I think we need to drop a few major weaknesses (Barrett, Cummins, Garcia.. maybe a couple others) and be happy with the year-over-year progress we've made. Not satisfied being simply a playoff contender, but I'm a lot happier mid-pack than the first 2 years of bottom dwelling we did.
.
.
Good observation on Guevara D. Honduras has a good shot at qualifying next game, seeing as how they are playing El Savador in their final qualifier to secure spot 3 in CONCACAF. This assumes they win and Costa Rica does not beat the US, since Costa Rica is only 2 points ahead.

Not sure how the tiebreaker works, but Honduras has a much better +/- and beat El Savador 4-0. 4th place in CONCACAF plays 4th place from CONMEBOL.

Standings & matches :: http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/nccamerica/standings/index.html

[TFCtoMUFC]

Keepers:
- GK - Frei (Keep)
- GK - Edwards (Push)

Defenders:
- LB - Fellinga (Keep}
- RB - Wynne (Push)
- CB - Gomez (Keep)
- CB - Serioux (Keep)
- CB - Garcia (Gone)
- LB - Brennan (Gone)
- RB/CB - Attakora (Keep)

Midfielders:
- DM - Sanyang (Keep)
- DM/CM - de Guzman (Keep)
- AM - De Rosario (Keep)
- AM/CM - Guevara (Push)
- DM - Robinson (Gone)
- AM/CM - Vitti (Push)
- RM - Cronin (Keep)
- CM - Gala (Push)

Forwards:
- F - Gerba (Keep)
- F/W - Barrett (Gone)
- F - White (Keep)

"Push" means I'm on the fence as to what to do with them.

So looking at that list, it's clear we need another forward - maybe two. We also need another central defender, a full-back or two, and at least a left winger

- Scott

I am the same way except Vitti has to go.

[Carts]

Sam Cronin has been awesome this year. End of.

I agree completely... I want him to stay and voted as such...

He's ahead of local boys and superstars - with this bunch, thats a big accomplishment...

Carts...

[Suds]

Cronin has to be the biggest surprise for me this year. I had no idea who this kid was coming out of NCAA other than the write ups and scouting reports. I really can't recall the last bad game he's had. (one or two come to mind early in the year, but it's been a while)

He improved his game throughout the year and he has the one great attribute midfielders need - consistency. Someone at TFC deserves credit for helping him with this. The real test will come next year when everyone will expect this consistent play week in and week out.

[Super]

Hmm, well, this is VERY interesting to me. On one hand people have a hate relationship with Mo Johnston, and on the other hand most people on here actually agree with about 90% of the players currently on the squad. That's more than you'll find pretty much anywhere else.

One thing people agree on is that Cummins and Garcia must go. And I think we'll get our wish. Other than that, there is no player that stands out as very unpopular - and that is credit to Mo's selections for this club. On paper we like what we see. Now let's get a proper coach in there, a proper playing surface, and I think we'll be a much better team next year.

[TFC OZZ]

Surely Mo Johnston cannot have 23 votes and Cummins only have 2; that's ridiculous.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I like cummins but i only want him around as asst coach, that being said hes prob gone, especially after his wife and kid are back in england. As for Robbo, Guevara, i like them alot, theyve given alot but their time has come. Garcia, we dont have room for and Mo just didnt do what needed to be done this year. Mo will be back tho sadly.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i also think we will sign Vitti for cheaper and he will be alot more effective next year, especially if people play their proper positions

[InTheCrowd]

They have contracts.

[ochos]

If it were possible to keep Cummins on as asst. coach I'm might have selected that.

Other than that, I think any player at 50%+ I probably checked to keep (except for Winsper but I still respect the guy). How bout you guys?

[dclaro]

who voted garcia?

[Carts]

who voted garcia?

Himself...?

[TFCUNITED]

who voted garcia?

Which time?

[Auzzy]

A couple of things:
- I'm very wary about calls to "dump players" (with very few exceptions) until I see who the replacement would be. I think we've been at least 3 short on the roster for most of the season. Some of the guys we lost could have been helpful in a pinch. Well, in particular ONE of them... :)
- Other players we did or will get rid of, could perhaps be much more useful with different coaching, different tactics, or different (supporting) team mates.
- A number of guys who could still be big assets to the team, but at a lower salary next season (or if the cap is higher so their salary has less impact),
- Happy to see the high vote for Serioux, but I'm concerned we may not see him back due to his own choice -- lingering neck & other problems.

[dclaro]

Which time?
when i voted it was one? i guess now its two

[RicoSuave44]

Clicked all but Chris Cummins, Ali, Fuad, Nick and Pablo

[Stryker]

Sentimental bunch we have. Why else would anyone want to keep our pricey captain.

[Shakes McQueen]

Sentimental bunch we have. Why else would anyone want to keep our pricey captain.

I think there's a solid chance Brennan will retire after this season anyway, unless the team specifically asks him to hang in there for another year.

But yeah - I like Jimmy B. I think he's had a great career, and has been a thorough class act. That said, at this point I think he's been overpaid, and underperforming this season. We could get someone better for the same money - and Fellinga looks like he could slip into the role quite nicely (and looks to have a better cross, to boot).

We need to let go of our sentimental attachment to guys like Robbo and Brennan, and realize they are getting old, and becoming liabilities compared to the rest of the league's players. The quality of play in MLS has gotten better, to the point where it's passing them by even faster than it would have by the slow process of aging anyway.

I'd love to see both stay on as lower priced depth players (nothing like veteran experience to help close out a game in the later stages), but I have my doubts either would take that kind of a pay cut, or reduced role.

- Scott

[DichioTFC]

Cummins, C-Rob and Garcia have to go. I would keep Vitti if we could re-sign him at a lower price. Mo deserves another year, its not his fault that Carver left or that Harmse wanted to go to the left coast (how badly do we need a slightly competant CB right now).

If Jimmy leaves, who takes the armband? Keeping him as captain for one more season makes sense to me for the sole reason that it isnt established who our next ambassador will be (hopefully JDG will take it the year after).

[Cashcleaner]

Good poll, Damien. It was hard for me to make a clearcut stay-or-go for a lot of guys, so I really just picked the no-brainers for me (Cronin, Frei, DeRo, etc.).

Also, I hope you don't mind but I've got a rundown of the most popular players at the moment according to the poll:



Top ten TFC players according to poll

Stephan Frei - 111
Julian de Guzman - 110
Dwayne De Rosario - 110
Nana Attakora - 108
O'Brian White - 106
Sam Cronin - 105
Amadou Sanyang - 101
Adrian Serioux - 101
Brian Edwards - 98
Emmanuel Gomez - 90

[WHITEY]

Wynn with 90 votes wow! Why keep him? And this argument that he is an "asset" I don't get, what "assets" does he have besides his speed?

[Yohan]

i also think we will sign Vitti for cheaper and he will be alot more effective next year, especially if people play their proper positions
do you know what's Vitti's natural position? lol

[Wooster_TFC]

Sentimental bunch we have. Why else would anyone want to keep our pricey captain.

I said cut Robinson and keep Jimmy simply because I don't think you can cut both your assistant captain and captain in the same year without some major repercussions. I also can't see them handing the captaincy to DeRo or JDG yet...

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see both of them still here next year, albeit at a hugely reduced rate. Basically, the team will not cut them loose if they want to come back, but won't be begging for them to be back either (other than maybe Jimmy, who's still got a decent left foot, he just shouldn't be playing LB)

[pekduck]

Felinga is quite effctive on left mid and has a better left foot crosses and clearance than Jimmy. So I think if he's back he'll still be on LB using a Canadian spot

[Oldtimer]

People not sold on Mo... no surprise. He will have to prove himself by getting a good coach for next year. People like his draft picks, looking at the polling, but that's only part of the job.

Cummins is clearly over his head, he recognizes it, and most of us do, as well.

Some of the older players are polling surprisingly low. It looks like most people here want new blood.

[Mikey]

Keep
Frei
Edwards
Wynne
Gomez
Serioux
Attakora
Sanyang
de Guzman
De Rosario
Guevara
Cronin
Gala
OB White

Gone
Robinson
Vitti
Garcia
Brennan
Fellinga
Gerba
Barrett
Johnston
Cummins

[brad]

He improved his game throughout the year and he has the one great attribute midfielders need - consistency. Someone at TFC deserves credit for helping him with this. The real test will come next year when everyone will expect this consistent play week in and week out.

Robbo.

[canadian_bhoy]

Gerba's Foot: Stay
Gerba's Gut: Go

[dow117]

Mo has brought in very good players, done well at the draft, great signing of JDG and encourages Canadian content ...
Once the product is on field, its the coach that needs to put it all together with his staff. They have not as there is something wrong in that dressing room. No Gomez or Sanyang in the final game ??? Fellinga has been around for weeks and not played, even though he showed real promise as a wide man .

No ..we have the players / we need players in the right position and tactics to match the game situation. ( i.e. holding a lead; etc )

[brad]

People not sold on Mo... no surprise. He will have to prove himself by getting a good coach for next year. People like his draft picks, looking at the polling, but that's only part of the job.


My number one problem with Mo - he's bought players, he hasn't built a team. Big difference.

[Jeff s]

Cronin has to be the biggest surprise for me this year. I had no idea who this kid was coming out of NCAA other than the write ups and scouting reports. I really can't recall the last bad game he's had. (one or two come to mind early in the year, but it's been a while)

He improved his game throughout the year and he has the one great attribute midfielders need - consistency. Someone at TFC deserves credit for helping him with this. The real test will come next year when everyone will expect this consistent play week in and week out.

Cronin is shit and overrated. There I said it.

[brad]

Cronin is shit and overrated. There I said it.

Now explain why please.

[Jeff s]

Now explain why please.

I find him to be a very non influential player alongside with Robbo. Both arent capable of building an attack. I dont even notice his presence on the field half the time. He doesn't help out the fullbacks as much as he should.

Even the stats dont lie. Add the stats of Cronin and Robbo and you get 6 assists and one goal. WOW and we're relying on these guys to set up plays? We cant just expect the forwards to score all the goals here.

I think people look at cronin and greatly overexagerate on how good he is. You can put another young player there and probably wont even notice the difference tbh.

[felipe]

This thread proves that most fans don't have a clue

[ManUtd4ever]

This thread proves that most fans don't have a clue

Actually, I think the results of the poll are bang on. The only result I questioned is for MoJo, which is almost 50/50...

BTW, best poll of the year...

[Yohan]

Actually, I think the results of the poll are bang on. The only result I questioned is for MoJo, which is almost 50/50...

BTW, best poll of the year...
another question about Mo. How much credit does Mo deserve for Nana, and keeping him in the roster all 3 years?

[Suds]

My number one problem with Mo - he's bought players, he hasn't built a team. Big difference.

Good point. Mo has done some good drafting and signings. However, he has also failed to fill some glaring holes (Coach, central defender, etc.)

This clearly has to be his main focus moving forward. If he fails to do this in the coming year I don't see why TFC should keep him on board.

We're 3 years complete and moving into the 4th year of the "5 year plan". No more excuses can be accepted. It's all about results now.

[WHITEY]

LOL Wynn has the same amount of votes as Fellinga LOL Wynn who displays nil soccer sense has the same amount of votes as Fellinga LOL

[Suds]

I find him to be a very non influential player alongside with Robbo. Both arent capable of building an attack. I dont even notice his presence on the field half the time. He doesn't help out the fullbacks as much as he should.

Even the stats dont lie. Add the stats of Cronin and Robbo and you get 6 assists and one goal. WOW and we're relying on these guys to set up plays? We cant just expect the forwards to score all the goals here.

I think people look at cronin and greatly overexagerate on how good he is. You can put another young player there and probably wont even notice the difference tbh.

I guess I take it from another perspective. I like the fact Cronin - as a rookie - is not standing out. What I mean by that is, I'm glad he's not making numerous rookie mistakes that cause me to focus on him.

I do agree he needs to improve parts of his game. One area he can work on is his ability to transition the team from defense to office much quicker. Our counter-attack is non existent. He would do well to focus on this part of his game.

As I said in my earlier post, next season will be key for Cronin. Can he continue to improve his game at the rate we have seen.

[colman1860]

LOL Wynn has the same amount of votes as Fellinga LOL Wynn who displays nil soccer sense has the same amount of votes as Fellinga LOL

Shouldn't this read "Wow our starting right back for the past 3 years has no more votes than a guy who can't get a game for Haiti and has had one good game for us"?

[Yohan]

I guess I take it from another perspective. I like the fact Cronin - as a rookie - is not standing out. What I mean by that is, I'm glad he's not making numerous rookie mistakes that cause me to focus on him.

I do agree he needs to improve parts of his game. One area he can work on is his ability to transition the team from defense to office much quicker. Our counter-attack is non existent. He would do well to focus on this part of his game.

As I said in my earlier post, next season will be key for Cronin. Can he continue to improve his game at the rate we have seen.
the thing is, toronto's attack does not go through Cronin, so he has very little influence on transition from defence to offence

I do think Cronin needs to bulk up physically so that he's not getting pushed around, and he needs to develop better positional sense offensively so that he can get more involved in offence. but that comes with experience with Cronin I think

[WHITEY]

Shouldn't this read "Wow our starting right back for the past 3 years has no more votes than a guy who can't get a game for Haiti and has had one good game for us"?

Nope I got it right the first time, I just don't think Wynn is worth keeping. What does Wynn bring to the table besides his speed?

[Bobo]

Shouldn't this read "Wow our starting right back for the past 3 years has no more votes than a guy who can't get a game for Haiti and has had one good game for us"?

And Wynne has gotten less and less impressive in each of the three. Not sure how many voters think Fellinga is better than Wynne but the fact that we haven't seen a whole lot from him might be reason to keep him around. Wynne on the other hand we need to cash in on while he's still worth something. This poll is not about who the best players on the team are.

[WHITEY]

And Wynne has gotten less and less impressive in each of the three. Not sure how many voters think Fellinga is better than Wynne but the fact that we haven't seen a whole lot from him might be reason to keep him around. Wynne on the other hand we need to cash in on while he's still worth something. This poll is not about who the best players on the team are.

I am genuinely asking this, what is Wynn acutally worth? What does he do that makes him worth so much?

[Pookie]

If only the MLS were this simple.

This Keep or Go list needs to be expanded to include player's nationality. We play in a quota system. We can only have 5 Americans, 8 Internationals and the rest of the roster has to be Canadian or at least hold a Canadian residency. Of course, our numbers are a little off that quota as some slots can be traded but you get the idea

Who would you cut? And if you do make a cut, how realistic is it that you will get a decent player (of the same nationality back in return)?

... I won't even factor in cap hit.

Canadians (7)
Attakora
Gerba
Brennan
De Guzman
De Rosario
Serioux
(Sutton's spot)

International (8)
Vitti
Ibrahim
Gomez
Sanyang
Fellinga
Guevara
White
Gala
Frei
Robinson

Americans (5)
Barrett
Cronin
Garcia
Wynne
Edwards

I'm thinking that the most likely cuts would be within the US players. Edwards slot could be used on a offensive/defensive player and the back up slot could go to a Canadian. I've got to think that the US talent pool could find a replacement for Barrett and Garcia.

I think your Canadian pool is pretty much set.

Your international pool could use some tweaking with Guevara, Vitti and Robinson the highest paid of that bunch. This is presumably the largest pool from which to draw a replacement.

[Wooster_TFC]

And from such a long standing forum member as pookie, sigh.

Roster spots: http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=3237


Gala and OBW both count as Domestic players.

We currently have 5 Int'l Must Be US spots, and 12 Full International spots.

Next year we will have 3 Int'l Must be US spots and 11 Full International spots. So, you'll notice that we currently only have 13 non-domestic players, so we are perfectly fine for next year on our spots.

[Beach_Red]

^ Too bad Wite falls into the International category.

But thanks for dividing it up like this. Stupid MLS rules.....

Edit: oh, okay then. But it is complicated...

[brad]

the thing is, toronto's attack does not go through Cronin, so he has very little influence on transition from defence to offence


Our transition from defense to attack doesn't go through our midfield, let alone Cronin.

[Yohan]

Our transition from defense to attack doesn't go through our midfield, let alone Cronin.
lol touche

[prizby]

the results on this are amazing

[Pookie]

And from such a long standing forum member as pookie, sigh.

Roster spots: http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=3237

Gala and OBW both count as Domestic players.

We currently have 5 Int'l Must Be US spots, and 12 Full International spots.

Next year we will have 3 Int'l Must be US spots and 11 Full International spots. So, you'll notice that we currently only have 13 non-domestic players, so we are perfectly fine for next year on our spots.

I like having an editor :)

I think I said "Of course, our numbers are a little off that quota as some slots can be traded but you get the idea"

Just presented the "quota" as something to think about. If you cut Brennan, you generally need to replace him with another Canadian. The question then becomes is there a suitable Canadian replacement?

In looking at this, cutting Edwards popped out in my mind as the US talent pool is presumably larger. Swap a back up American for a starter.

Building a MLS team isn't as simple as picking the best players. Many factors to consider.

[Wooster_TFC]

I like having an editor :)

I think I said "Of course, our numbers are a little off that quota as some slots can be traded but you get the idea"

Just presented the "quota" as something to think about. If you cut Brennan, you generally need to replace him with another Canadian. The question then becomes is there a suitable Canadian replacement?

In looking at this, cutting Edwards popped out in my mind as the US talent pool is presumably larger. Swap a back up American for a starter.

Building a MLS team isn't as simple as picking the best players. Many factors to consider.

Too true. It's just disappointing to have guesses made in general when the information is readily available (it's even a sticky on the news section).

Either way, I think we will be more choosy with our International/US spots moving forward. MoJo (or whoever) should really be trying to snap up all the available good domestics now, before Vancouver joins the league (and Montreal soon too?).

Looking at it, unless their contracts are up, all the domestics will be around next year, no reason really for them not to be. I'd really love us to focus on getting a solid CB to play with Nana next year (or even two solid CBs and put Nana at RB). Everywhere else, I think we are okay. I'd love to get a younger LB too. Really, the back line needs to be the focus.

Does anyone know who's contract is actually up this year?

Although I guess all of this could be moot with the CBA up for renegotiation...

[Bars92]

Keep Frei for next year and then sell him for big bucks to a European club the year after.

[ensco]

I truly feel sorry for Garcia. What a pasting for him.

More people believe that Elvis is still alive, than believe Garcia should be here next year.

[Heathen]

I truly feel sorry for Garcia. What a pasting for him.

More people believe that Elvis is still alive, than believe Garcia should be here next year.

More people also believe Elvis would make better centre half

[MTomas]

187 votes too many for Marvel Wynne.

[TFCtoMUFC]

So as I post right now there are 260 votes.

Who are the:

5 who didn't vote for Frei?
5 who didn't vote for De Guzman?
8 who didn't vote for De Rosario?
8 who didn't vote for Attakora?
19 who didn't vote for Cronin?

4 of those 5 have been our whole team this year.

Who are the:

10 people who voted to keep Nick Garcia?
18 people who voted to keep Cummins?

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

So as I post right now there are 260 votes.

Who are the:

5 who didn't vote for Frei?
5 who didn't vote for De Guzman?
8 who didn't vote for De Rosario?
8 who didn't vote for Attakora?
19 who didn't vote for Cronin?

4 of those 5 have been our whole team this year.

Who are the:

10 people who voted to keep Nick Garcia?
18 people who voted to keep Cummins?
lol... words taken straight out of my mouth.

[felipe]

As much as I think Garcia is getting a raw deal from the fans, I didn't vote to keep him.

Hasn't anyone else noticed that our defence is much much better since he arrived?

Apart from his occasional howlers, it's much better, it no longer resembles a superhighway straight to the goal.

Coincidence?

No, its much better organised. And frankly, if they can't find anyone better, he should return next year, because like it or not, he's our best option right now at centre D. Nana and Serioux are both good, much better athletes and defenders, but neither organise like Nick; together they just don't work. They had their chances together, and were so bad, we went out to get Garcia. By all means, ditch Garcia, he has definite limitations; but not until we have a better option.

I did however vote to keep Cummins.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

So as I post right now there are 260 votes.

Who are the:

5 who didn't vote for Frei?
5 who didn't vote for De Guzman?
8 who didn't vote for De Rosario?
8 who didn't vote for Attakora?
19 who didn't vote for Cronin?

4 of those 5 have been our whole team this year.

Who are the:

10 people who voted to keep Nick Garcia?
18 people who voted to keep Cummins?


I did not vote for DeRo, but you cant really be surprised on that one..
and i voted to give CC one more season to see what he can do..we cant have a new manager every season thats just nuts,

[TFC USA]

Cummins is inept.

You don't wait until the shit boils over.

[Cashcleaner]

This thread proves that most fans don't have a clue

By all means then, enthral us with your opinion. We know your thoughts on Garcia and Cummins, but there's a few more players on the roster that you can enlighten us on.

We humbly await your most valuable and esteemed insight.

[Oldtimer]

I was all in favour of giving Cummins a chance.

He's played that out, he's lost the locker room. It's time for him to go.

[TFCtoMUFC]

As much as I think Garcia is getting a raw deal from the fans, I didn't vote to keep him.

Hasn't anyone else noticed that our defence is much much better since he arrived?

Apart from his occasional howlers, it's much better, it no longer resembles a superhighway straight to the goal.

Coincidence?

No, its much better organised. And frankly, if they can't find anyone better, he should return next year, because like it or not, he's our best option right now at centre D. Nana and Serioux are both good, much better athletes and defenders, but neither organise like Nick; together they just don't work. They had their chances together, and were so bad, we went out to get Garcia. By all means, ditch Garcia, he has definite limitations; but not until we have a better option.

I did however vote to keep Cummins.

Ok lets do some FIFA style math here. Lets say the average Defensive 4 is a combined 240. If Nick Garcia plays at a 40 the other 3 have to play at a 50. Or in reality it works they have to play better cause he sucks.

[Mikey]

As much as I think Garcia is getting a raw deal from the fans, I didn't vote to keep him.

Hasn't anyone else noticed that our defence is much much better since he arrived?

Strange as it sounds, I think we would have faired better keeping Marshall and teaming him with serioux.

San Jose fans told us Garcia was shit when they happily let him go, the same as Chicago fans told us that Barndoor Barrett couldn't hit a cows ass with a banjo and would never be a double digit goal scoring striker.

I just hope the rest of the team have more faith in Garcia than I do, or we are totally fucked!

[Heathen]

As much as I think Garcia is getting a raw deal from the fans, I didn't vote to keep him.

Hasn't anyone else noticed that our defence is much much better since he arrived?

Apart from his occasional howlers, it's much better, it no longer resembles a superhighway straight to the goal.

Coincidence?

No, its much better organised. And frankly, if they can't find anyone better, he should return next year, because like it or not, he's our best option right now at centre D. Nana and Serioux are both good, much better athletes and defenders, but neither organise like Nick; together they just don't work. They had their chances together, and were so bad, we went out to get Garcia. By all means, ditch Garcia, he has definite limitations; but not until we have a better option.

I did however vote to keep Cummins.

if we could transplant Garcia's head onto Gomez or Nana's body you'd have a point. Unfortunately organizational skills count for jack if you don't have the minimum physical requirements to compete and from what I've seen Garcia doesn't.

[felipe]

Fine Cash, I will enlighten you. Feel free to bookmark this, study it, you may all learn something.

Although I will state that the tally board has evened out since I made that comment.

Lets start with the top four vote getters (currently) JDG DeRo Nana and Frei, its hard to argue with this. And we haven't yet seen the best from any of the four.

Nana will be an absolute stud soon, and I am convinced will leave us in the future for Europe. He has everything, and if his thinking and positioning develops and when he gains more experience he'll take over from Chad Marshall as the best centre D in MLS. His development had to be one of the main reasons why they brought Garcia in, to tutor him, and show him how to play effectively. To answer the poster above me, yes we can transplant his brain into Nana's body, (or I imagine at least they're trying). Nana is going to be a beast.

DeRo frustrates me, statistically he is having a great season, but the reality is he played much more effectively in Houston. He has a tendency to run around a little and try to do too much. When sandwiched with great players (like in Houston -) he stayed more disciplined and was more effective; he had a role there and was depended on to create the 'unexpected' when it was needed. This year he's run around and tried to do everything for everyone. I love him, but I think he's capable of much much more. He can do more by doing less. But then again, I am more critical of the more gifted players and expect more from them.

Its interesting that the next bunch of top vote getters, really haven't played that much; OBW, Edwards, Sanyang, and Gomez. They've shown potential and a frightening lack of experience, but have also had their moments on the ball. Not to be unkind, but its almost as if the majority of our supporters have blinkers on (like most of the players)and only watch the ball instead of the match. There's a lot more going on out there! If a player is frequently exposed, more often that not, its because his teammate was improperly positioined, and hung him out to dry. If you see a player running around everywhere, tackling everything, everywhere, he's really not playing that well. Its a team game, of 11 players - its about the team shape, not about some athlete running around. Some guy running around puts tremendous stress on the rest of the team and leaves a hole some where - sure its exciting and looks good, but its not very good soccer.

Which brings us to Serioux and Cronin. I frequently read 'Cronin doesn't do anything' and what a beast Serioux is. Cronin is a smart effective team player who plays whatever role he's assigned very well; he looks like a ten year veteran out there, not a rookie. Serioux (god love him) is fast aggresive hard, and you have to have players like that; but his positional awareness is painfully poor - its why he doesn't work at centre D, or all that well at def mid. I think he's very good as a right back, where you can hide positional frailities a bit more.

Which brings us to Wynne. we've been trying to hide his tactical nous for three years. This guy is a speciman. He's fast strong aggresive. I still remember him physically dominating cdn players at the U20. I'm not ready to give up on him, his pace is scary. And I don't think he's been worse this year, he's just pulled off fewer of those moments when you think, 'oh my god, this guy is going to be awesome.'

But Wynne Serioux and Nana as a back line is bad, and looked bad. You don't win on physical gifts alone; MLS is not fifa'10. Just becuse player A is bigger stronger faster and more skilled than player B does not make him a better player. Thats only half of the player; smarts and experience count for just as much. Its painfully easy to take a less experinced, 'better' player out of a game.

Which brings us to the much maligned pair of Brennan and Garcia. Brennan could score an own goal every game, and I'd still praise him. Just because of what he's given this franchise and this city. We as supporters, tend to have short memories. I am pissed that people turn on him. And you have to remember, he's our only former Nottingham Forest player - that alone makes him a god. Anyway, he hasn't played bad this year - but, he hasn't been at his former level either. Do we have a better option? No, not at present. And I would argue that Brennan has won the right to play as long as he wants at left back even if that's for ten more years. For two years he covered up for everyone, played all across the park, played with broken bones, and now everyone wants to throw him under the bus. Its disgraceful.

Garcia is slow and short. Communication errors, I would not blame on him - he's the veteran. Uncontested crosses into the box that a much taller striker heads in, I don't blame him, I blame the guy not closing down the crosser. Actually, I partly don't blame him for anything becasue of the vitirol coming from these boards. Hey, don't get me wrong, he's not an allstar. But he is a very effective pro, who has made our D better. We will reap the positives from his time here, long after he leaves, because for half a season, Nana saw what a real centre half looks and plays like.

Its funny everyone loves Fellinga; he's played what, 110 minutes? He just hasn't had time to piss everyone off yet! Actually I like what I've seen from him - he looks like a servicable squad player, spot starter. But who the hell can tell? He's barely got here!

My next pair is Guevera and Vitti. Of all our team, they are the only ones I want to see gone.

Guevera flatters to decieve. He makes it look like he's doing something, but he isn't. He puts in a token effort. We can all say this, because we've all seen what he's capable of when he wants too. I can live with his defensive disinterest when hes performing up the pitch, but not any longer. Hopefully he'll be gone all next summer with Honduras anyway.

Vitti beats two guys and loses the ball to the third. Do us all a favour and just kick it out first time, so we can get set defensivley instead of being caught up the field. I'm tired of people saying he creates his own chances - its because his movement is poor he doesn't get more involved with 'team efforts'.

DeRo, Guevera and Vitti are 'luxury' players. You overlook their frailities because they have the capability of creating magic, something from nothing. You let them wander around looking for openings to create. But you can't have three of them on the pitch at once! Its a fuckin disaster. Then you have three guys lurking around expecting everyone else to defend and make attacking runs. If you try to get them to settle somewhere in a role, they're not nearly as effective.

Of the three, I know who I want to keep, the one who wears his heart on his sleeve and works works and works.

Who's left?

Oh yeah, Robbo and Barrett. When people criticse these guys I'm convinced they know absolutely nothing about soccer - that they're in fact 'ball-watchers'.

They do so much. Next game just watch one of them. Look at the amount of runs Barrett makes, freeing up space for his teammates, creating depth and width pretty much singlhandedly. Look how he's first back to help defend. Look at his effort. If they all worked like him, we'd never lose a fuckin game. Now, look at how good he is with the ball, he dribbles well, passes well, crosses well, tackles hard.

and all you people see is him missing the open goal.

Robbo does the same in midfield; closing down channels, breaking legs when people stray too close to him. Yes, with the ball this year, he seems to be misplaying a lot of passes. Is it him? Or is it noone freeaking moving? Him and JDG would fuckin dominate MLS together. I hope we see it. And the pressure relieved off of the D, wonderful!

Gerba is a wonderful striker - you don't get that many int'l goals without being so. He just hasn't settled yet.

A big part of our problem (and has been for thre years) is an unsettled side. Players coming in and out all the time. Every offseason we clamour for the team to be made prior to the season start, and every year, players keep coming in and out. And then we shit on the coach.

I like our team, I think we're one player away from being legitimate MLS champions. We have depth now, we have quality everywhere.

Frei
Brennan Nana ? Serioux
Barrett JDG Robbo Cronin
DeRo Gerba

Bench
Garcia
Fellinga
Edwards
OBW
Sanyang
Gomez
Gala
Ibrahim
Wynne



So, no, I don't want to get rid of everyone. I want to get rid of Guevera and Vitti and spend their slaries on a proper centre back!

So, in short, when I see everyone throwing Brennan robbo Garcia and Barrett under the bus, I'm convinced fans are clueless.

[v00d00daddy]

My next pair is Guevera and Vitti. Of all our team, they are the only ones I want to see gone.

Guevera flatters to decieve. He makes it look like he's doing something, but he isn't. He puts in a token effort. We can all say this, because we've all seen what he's capable of when he wants too. I can live with his defensive disinterest when hes performing up the pitch, but not any longer. Hopefully he'll be gone all next summer with Honduras anyway.

Vitti beats two guys and loses the ball to the third. Do us all a favour and just kick it out first time, so we can get set defensivley instead of being caught up the field. I'm tired of people saying he creates his own chances - its because his movement is poor he doesn't get more involved with 'team efforts'.

Who's left?

Oh yeah, Robbo and Barrett. When people criticse these guys I'm convinced they know absolutely nothing about soccer - that they're in fact 'ball-watchers'.

They do so much. Next game just watch one of them. Look at the amount of runs Barrett makes, freeing up space for his teammates, creating depth and width pretty much singlhandedly. Look how he's first back to help defend. Look at his effort. If they all worked like him, we'd never lose a fuckin game. Now, look at how good he is with the ball, he dribbles well, passes well, crosses well, tackles hard.

and all you people see is him missing the open goal.

Robbo does the same in midfield; closing down channels, breaking legs when people stray too close to him. Yes, with the ball this year, he seems to be misplaying a lot of passes. Is it him? Or is it noone freeaking moving? Him and JDG would fuckin dominate MLS together. I hope we see it. And the pressure relieved off of the D, wonderful!

I like our team, I think we're one player away from being legitimate MLS champions. We have depth now, we have quality everywhere.

Frei
Brennan Nana ? Serioux
Barrett JDG Robbo Cronin
DeRo Gerba

Bench
Garcia
Fellinga
Edwards
OBW
Sanyang
Gomez
Gala
Ibrahim
Wynne



So, no, I don't want to get rid of everyone. I want to get rid of Guevera and Vitti and spend their slaries on a proper centre back!

So, in short, when I see everyone throwing Brennan robbo Garcia and Barrett under the bus, I'm convinced fans are clueless.

I was with you Felipe...for a lot of the post. Then you said the stuff about Guevara and Vitti and I realized what kind of soccer you like to watch and it's the opposite of the soccer I like to watch.

To each his own I guess.

I don't want to watch guys who work hard and have no skill and "wear their hearts on their sleeves".

I want to watch guys who know how to pass, shoot, dribble and have a clue about where to find space.

Basically the opposite of the guys you want to keep.

I respect your opinion, but I don't agree.

PS. the bolded part above made my stomach turn a bit.

If I could sum up, in one sentence, what is wrong with TFC..it's the bolded part. lol

[felipe]

I wasn't advocating kickin the ball out - I was just saying we know he's gonna lose the ball. so just lose it initially so we're not all out of position.

I love ball possession footie too - but you gotta go with the horses we can attract. We can attract hard working two way players with a little imagination brought by DeRo - who can play a possession style like Houston. We can't get a team of brazil stars to come and whack the ball around here and play total football.

A team of 4 hard workers, 3 flair players and 3 guys constantly out of position doesn't make for a very good team. You have to work with what we got is essentially my position.

You can fit one flair guy into that team - not three - (if we were better, than you could) But nobody plays like that in the MLS, they have hard workers and a bit of magic.

and honestly, Vitti and Guvera have disapointed me in their effort.

[Bobo]

I am genuinely asking this, what is Wynn acutally worth? What does he do that makes him worth so much?

I don't know, his speed maybe? Some TFC fans rate him highly so I'm sure others will. Got to dupe them now.

[Jeff s]

Felipe, you write a 2 page essay on why everyone here is dumb and your right and than you praise Garcia and Barrett?

:facepalm:

[v00d00daddy]

I wasn't advocating kickin the ball out - I was just saying we know he's gonna lose the ball. so just lose it initially so we're not all out of position.

I love ball possession footie too - but you gotta go with the horses we can attract. We can attract hard working two way players with a little imagination brought by DeRo - who can play a possession style like Houston. We can't get a team of brazil stars to come and whack the ball around here and play total football.

A team of 4 hard workers, 3 flair players and 3 guys constantly out of position doesn't make for a very good team. You have to work with what we got is essentially my position.

You can fit one flair guy into that team - not three - (if we were better, than you could) But nobody plays like that in the MLS, they have hard workers and a bit of magic.

and honestly, Vitti and Guvera have disapointed me in their effort.


I would rather have guys that have skill (Guevara and Vitti) but may lack motivation and work ethic over guys that have all the work ethic in the world but lack the skill set to use any of it.

A good coach can motivate guys to work harder and give more effort. Unfortunately you can't motivate a guy into acquiring skills. Getting guys like Robbo, Brennan and Barrett to play smart and with touch is like trying to get blood from a stone. Despite all of their good intentions.

As for kicking the ball out....you say:

"I was just saying we know he's gonna lose the ball. so just lose it initially so we're not all out of position."

Kind of like Robbo. Instead of actually trying to get something positive accomplished...which is what Vitti does...you'd prefer we just give the ball back to the opposition right off the bat?

I'm glad you're not the coach and I'm not surprised that you tend to defend Chris Cummins. You guys think alike.

[DoubleUp]

Cronin is shit and overrated. There I said it.
No my friend, he is not!. I once was skeptical about about cronin, but through further observation, I realized cronin is good because #1. his futbol is so simple its hard for him to mess up. And #2. he doesnt stop running. At this stage this is what are midfield needs. The best thing that happened to cronin, was that he stop playing with robbo.

[brad]

No my friend, he is not!. I once was skeptical about about cronin, but through further observation, I realized cronin is good because #1. his futbol is so simple its hard for him to mess up. And #2. he doesnt stop running. At this stage this is what are midfield needs. The best thing that happened to cronin, was that he stop playing with robbo.


I would really like to see Cronin's passing statistics. Total number of passes and completion %.

Number of goals and assists tell very little for someone in his position.

[deacon]

cronin is team leader in distance covered in game, +12 Kilometers,and passing accuracy according to Prozone stats.Brad and DoubleUp are right on the money with their assesments.Every team needs a player or two like Sam,his true value will become clearer with each game.

[TFCtoMUFC]

Cronin is the best player on Toronto FC. Go ahead quote this, laugh at it, do whatever. This guy makes stuff happen and the odd time he makes a mistake he hustles to clean up his own mess.

[devioustrevor]

Other than Barrett, all my picks were agreed with by 65%+ of the rest of the board.

Call me stupid, but I haven't given up on Barrett yet. His technique definitely needs to improve, but a high workrate can't be taught and busting your ass on the field can lead to more things than being a lazy player with technique.

[Broadview]

All the players in the 90 percentile approval rating are new this year (I'm including Attakora who in my mind replaced Gyan-Attakora)

Interesting.

[Beach_Red]

All the players in the 90 percentile approval rating are new this year (I'm including Attakora who in my mind replaced Gyan-Attakora)

Interesting.


What that says is that as an expansion team, TFC didn't have that many options for players and as the team gets more established it has more options and people here like the choices the team is making.

This is why some people said it would take a few years to be competitive in this league.

It's been tough for RSL and SJ, too, so we'll see what happens with Philadelphia, but it does look like coming in with a team from USL is an advantage for being competitive sooner - if not for bringing in a lot of the players then for having a little depth and an infrastructure.

[LesH]

Other than Barrett, all my picks were agreed with by 65%+ of the rest of the board.

Call me stupid, but I haven't given up on Barrett yet. His technique definitely needs to improve, but a high workrate can't be taught and busting your ass on the field can lead to more things than being a lazy player with technique.


Technique can NOT be improved over max 20 years of age, because in all the skills needed for a football player is the one which depends the most on "born with" aptitudes.
Barrett will NEVER have better technique.

The one who tells you this is a guy who played 5 years of semipro football some 20 years ago, in a central-east European country's second division (which division's level at that time -still comunism, eh - was such that at any time 8-10 teams could have played in the actual MLS.)

[Guajiro]

I find him to be a very non influential player alongside with Robbo. Both arent capable of building an attack. I dont even notice his presence on the field half the time. He doesn't help out the fullbacks as much as he should.

Even the stats dont lie. Add the stats of Cronin and Robbo and you get 6 assists and one goal. WOW and we're relying on these guys to set up plays? We cant just expect the forwards to score all the goals here.

I think people look at cronin and greatly overexagerate on how good he is. You can put another young player there and probably wont even notice the difference tbh.
I less enthusiasticly agree. I haven't noticed Cronin do much of anything significant either. People just seem to jump on or off a player bandwagon en masse.

Vitti's been absent lately (isn't he injured?) but he's also pretty consistant when he plays, yet more than half the fans want him gone? Sure he's not performing up to his price tag, but aren't young players with lots of potential the kind of players you want to keep around?

[FluSH]

^^^
Cubano?

[TFC07]

Cronin is the best player on Toronto FC. Go ahead quote this, laugh at it, do whatever. This guy makes stuff happen and the odd time he makes a mistake he hustles to clean up his own mess.

LMAO!

You said laugh at it. :D

[Super]

I've been thinking: if we make the play-offs this Saturday wouldn't that make this season a complete success? Our goal was to win the Canadian Cup + make the first round of the play-offs. In that case I guess Cummins delivered - although of course the road was a lot tougher than most of us predicted. Still, though, I think we should accept the fact that if indeed we qualify on Saturday that the mission has been accomplished.

[FluSH]

I didn't think Nick Garcia's stock was this bad... I mean I knew it was bad... but man!!!

[ensco]

I've been thinking: if we make the play-offs this Saturday wouldn't that make this season a complete success? Our goal was to win the Canadian Cup + make the first round of the play-offs. In that case I guess Cummins delivered - although of course the road was a lot tougher than most of us predicted. Still, though, I think we should accept the fact that if indeed we qualify on Saturday that the mission has been accomplished.

No.

I work in the investment business and this line of thinking makes me nuts.

"Performance" is not everything. Context matters. You have to differentiate between luck and skill.

Who here would really argue that we achieved anything by getting into the playoffs?

The CCL thing was a serious fluke, and if a bunch of teams don't spit the bit down the stretch, were not in the MLS playoff chase right now.

Don't get me wrong, GO REDS. But let's not infuse this with meaning that isn't there.

[Super]

No.

I work in the investment business and this line of thinking makes me nuts.

"Performance" is not everything. Context matters. You have to differentiate between luck and skill.

Who here would really argue that we achieved anything by getting into the playoffs?

The CCL thing was a serious fluke, and if a bunch of teams don't spit the bit down the stretch, were not in the MLS playoff chase right now.

Don't get me wrong, GO REDS. But let's not infuse this with meaning that isn't there.

The reason for my post is that I'm struggling with how to feel about Cummins right now. Friday I wanted him gone. Today I want him gone, but at the same time I'm asking myself: what if he delivers us the play-offs on Saturday?

[brad]

The reason for my post is that I'm struggling with how to feel about Cummins right now. Friday I wanted him gone. Today I want him gone, but at the same time I'm asking myself: what if he delivers us the play-offs on Saturday?

That doesn't change the fact that he is out of his depth. We shouldn't be fighting for the playoffs, we should be in already, with ease. Deal with even half of the last minute mistakes that we've made time and time again and we we'd be there.

Keep Cummins, next year will be more of the same.

[Lennon]

cronin is team leader in distance covered in game, +12 Kilometers,and passing accuracy according to Prozone stats.Brad and DoubleUp are right on the money with their assesments.Every team needs a player or two like Sam,his true value will become clearer with each game.

May I ask where you get this information? I'm interested in having a look at those types of stats ...

[Beach_Red]

No.

I work in the investment business and this line of thinking makes me nuts.

"Performance" is not everything. Context matters. You have to differentiate between luck and skill.

Who here would really argue that we achieved anything by getting into the playoffs?

The CCL thing was a serious fluke, and if a bunch of teams don't spit the bit down the stretch, were not in the MLS playoff chase right now.

Don't get me wrong, GO REDS. But let's not infuse this with meaning that isn't there.


No. This is sports - context doesn't matter, there is no difference between luck and skill. The only thing that matters is results. That's why athletes always use that moronic statement, "This is something they can never take away from me," because they know what a huge factor luck played in getting it. The Dallas Stars will always have a Stanley Cup whether Brett Hull's skate was in the crease or not. Fluke or not, TFC won the CCL.

This is what makes sports so great - and so frustrating. The best don't always win, the most skillful aren't always rewarded.

[Beach_Red]

The reason for my post is that I'm struggling with how to feel about Cummins right now. Friday I wanted him gone. Today I want him gone, but at the same time I'm asking myself: what if he delivers us the play-offs on Saturday?


Has Cummins ever said anything about next year? Wasn't there something about his family already being back in the UK? It really looks as though he agreed to stay on after Carver left to finish the season, but there's never really been any talk that he wants to stay any longer.

[Broadview]

Has Cummins ever said anything about next year? Wasn't there something about his family already being back in the UK? It really looks as though he agreed to stay on after Carver left to finish the season, but there's never really been any talk that he wants to stay any longer.

To tell the truth I don't think I've ever heard anyone even ask him. It would be a very good question to ask following the game Saturday.

[Pookie]

Brennan is likely to retire after next season. Can't see him "gone" this year.

[scooter]

cummins shouldn't even be in this poll he is definitly not comming back
garcia should be no surprise to anyone -- he let us down he needs to go

[Super]

cummins shouldn't even be in this poll he is definitly not comming back
garcia should be no surprise to anyone -- he let us down he needs to go

The poll was made before Cummins left.

[ochos]

Can't believe Gala is almost as high as Ibrahim...


although at least he scored a goal this year.. against a better team if I recall correctly..

[jloome]

Cronin is the best player on Toronto FC. Go ahead quote this, laugh at it, do whatever. This guy makes stuff happen and the odd time he makes a mistake he hustles to clean up his own mess.

I'd say in terms of consistently positive performances, he'd be tied with Attakora.

[ag futbol]

As much as there is no shortage of players i would like to have gone ... I'd like to make my choices selectively and keep as much continuity as possible. This team has suffered some terrible morale losses with the turnover and could use some stability. That being said if i was going to selectively pick some people off, my choices would be as follows:

Vitti - not enough results, plays possession football but he's not a winger, ineffective as a striker, and the AM spot has better options.
Wynn - It's too late to "fix" his defense and he's got a lot to work on. Has trade value, why not use it?
Garcia - no point of :deadhorse:

Some guys like Brennan while they aren't leaving the team will be phazed out of a starters role.

[DichioTFC]

As much as there is no shortage of players i would like to have gone ... I'd like to make my choices selectively and keep as much continuity as possible. This team has suffered some terrible morale losses with the turnover and could use some stability. That being said if i was going to selectively pick some people off, my choices would be as follows:

Vitti - not enough results, plays possession football but he's not a winger, ineffective as a striker, and the AM spot has better options.
Wynn - It's too late to "fix" his defense and he's got a lot to work on. Has trade value, why not use it?
Garcia - no point of :deadhorse:

Some guys like Brennan while they aren't leaving the team will be phazed out of a starters role.

Dont mean to keep it going about Garcia, but has anyone heard any rumours about shipping him off? For the love of God, please tell me someone's heard something...

[Pookie]

Don't forget the general rule that is the MLS quota system... get rid of a Canadian and you've got to replace him with one.

All things being equal, that's a primary reason why I would look at moving Edwards.

He takes a US slot and the talent pool for US players is bigger than that in Canada. Use the back-up keeper slot on a Canadian and find a US player that can contribute.

[TFCRegina]

Don't forget the general rule that is the MLS quota system... get rid of a Canadian and you've got to replace him with one.

All things being equal, that's a primary reason why I would look at moving Edwards.

He takes a US slot and the talent pool for US players is bigger than that in Canada. Use the back-up keeper slot on a Canadian and find a US player that can contribute.

You only need to do that if you're at your minimum domestic quota. I believe TFC is overquota.

[Ultra & Proud]

I find him to be a very non influential player alongside with Robbo. Both arent capable of building an attack. I dont even notice his presence on the field half the time. He doesn't help out the fullbacks as much as he should.

Even the stats dont lie. Add the stats of Cronin and Robbo and you get 6 assists and one goal. WOW and we're relying on these guys to set up plays? We cant just expect the forwards to score all the goals here.

I think people look at cronin and greatly overexagerate on how good he is. You can put another young player there and probably wont even notice the difference tbh.

2 Words: Defensive Midfielder

The End

[Detroit_TFC]

Molinaro just tweeted that Winsper is leaving.