Grass Approved By Council

[Stugatzo]

Unanimous vote...29-0!!!
:flare::flare::flare::flare:

[Darlofletch]

nice!

[denime]

THANKS for all effort :drum::flare::scarf::flare::drum:

[stugautz]

YES!!!!!!!

[SteeltownBhoy]

Woo Hoo

[Jay P]

Unanimous vote...29-0!!!
:flare::flare::flare::flare:



WOOOOHOOOO

[TFC115]

way to go boys!

[Phil]

Well done!

[DangerRed]

AWESOME NEWS!!!!!

Congrats to all who helped make this happen!

[Parkdale]

29-0 ?

that's great!

[nimamalek]

A grass celebration song next game?

[Nodoubtguy]

"All we are saying, is thank you for grass"

[Razor]

about f'n time!

:drum::flare::scarf:

[Nodoubtguy]

wasn't there something about some vote in October as well???

[billyfly]

Beauty, eh?

[Suds]

Any issue I've had with our Mayor and MLSE aside, this is one I will personally thank them for their work on if I see them in person.

Thank you Mayor Miller and those at MLSE who worked to get this done.

[Carts]

YAY CITY COUNCIL! How often do we get to say that...???

[tfcmanu]

Anybody say ZIG-ZAG! :flare:

[MartinUtd]

Great news!

So does this mean that we will see grass on opening day 2010 or is there likely to be a delay of some kind?

[Don Julio]

This more than makes up for the garbage strike!





:pbjtime: :fluffy: :pbjtime:

[billyfly]

Great news!

So does this mean that we will see grass on opening day 2010 or is there likely to be a delay of some kind?

2010

[billyfly]

Thanks to Domin8r!

[SteeltownBhoy]

CC40.8 Will be like scripture to be quoted!!!

[Chevy]

Great news!

So does this mean that we will see grass on opening day 2010 or is there likely to be a delay of some kind?

2010. The home opener may be moved back a few weeks (I hope so, better weather) though.

[SoccMan]

Yes!Yes! and more Yes!..... Ok it's time for me to go renew my seasons then!

[Wooster_TFC]

Hold on a second boys, isn't there still the provincial and federal governments approval required (since they both footed money too)?

It'll be interesting to see what happens with that second one with the possible upcoming election, if it even affects these sorts of decisions

[Ageroo]

WOW...what a great day!

[loconet]

Hold on a second boys, isn't there still the provincial and federal governments approval required (since they both footed money too)?


According to many those approvals will be mostly formalities. The big obstacles have already been passed.

[English Rachel]

woot woot

De Guzman and Grass - positivity rules!

[tfcmanu]

@ 40:08 (CC40.8) of the first half of the game we will sing All we are saying thank you for the GRASS! :drum:

[Shakes McQueen]

According to many those approvals will be mostly formalities. The big obstacles have already been passed.

Yeah, as long as the City is fine with it, the Province and Fed are just formalities.

To be honest, as soon as the Exhibition BoD voted for grass, the rest was mostly a formality.

- Scott

[The Professor]

Woo frickin' Hoo!!!!!!

[flatpicker]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/MusicalNote.gif "Walkin' in a Grassy Wonderland!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/MusicalNote.gif

http://webjunk.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/grass-wheel.jpg

[TFC Cityboy]

not even a Nick Garcia blunder could blow that kind of lead!!!

Way - hay!!!

[lintberg]

Does anyone know when the Province and feds will be voting on this?



Yeah, as long as the City is fine with it, the Province and Fed are just formalities.

To be honest, as soon as the Exhibition BoD voted for grass, the rest was mostly a formality.

- Scott

[Wooster_TFC]

According to many those approvals will be mostly formalities. The big obstacles have already been passed.

I wasn't aware of that. Maybe I'm just skeptical that it would have passed so resoundingly off the top. Probably has a good deal to do with MLSE doing the legwork up front to determine a proposal that would be accepted.

YAY GRASS!

[Mango Kid]

29-0 ?

that's great!

29-nil? Was TFC on the road? Sorry, couldn't resist.

GREAT FREAKING NEWS and about time.

[Mango Kid]

DeRo chimes in...

http://twitter.com/dwaynederosario

At kensington grabbing a bite. Word is grass is approved at BMO for next season... Great News!

(Sorry for the double post, didn't figure I'd be in B2B)

[Fort York Redcoat]

A proper pitch. Wonderful. One less count against us.

[scooter]

fantastic news kudos to all who wrote and emailed council

[canadian_bhoy]

are we sure that this isn't a vote of councilors happy that miller is gone? :D
Yay - Grass, DeRo stays!

[TFC Cityboy]

Unanimous vote...29-0!!!
:flare::flare::flare::flare:

Massive thanks to you and Mr Miller, Stu.
Can't beat having STHs running this town!!

[Oldtimer]

Here's what gets done with used turf.

this company recycles it into dog runs, etc.:

http://www.ondecksports.com/index.php?fuseaction=products.artificialturf_used

http://www.ondecksports.com/uploads/media/usedsyntheticturf.jpg


from $1 per square foot!

[Phil]

Here's what gets done with used turf.

this company recycles it into dog runs, etc.:

http://www.ondecksports.com/index.php?fuseaction=products.artificialturf_used

http://www.ondecksports.com/uploads/media/usedsyntheticturf.jpg


from $1 per square foot!


I hope MLSE doesn't get any ideas about gifts for seasons holders next year.... I don't want it!

[DOMIN8R]

Thank You.
For those of you who have made the effort to affect change and took steps to influence the Exhibition Place Board of Governors, City Councillors or anyone else - you have demonstrated that you walk the talk!
I would like to acknowledge and give a special thanks to the following who made this unanimous vote possible:
· Patrycja Koller (for getting the petition off the ground);
· Stugatzo (no explanation needed);
· Mayor Miller and Deputy Mayor Pantalone (took steps beyond what was expected to help ensure that this passed – starting 18 months ago);
· Exhibition Place Board of Governors (for seeing the light); and
· Ben Rycroft -don’t forget to subscribe to his podcast –It’s called football (for helping us understand what shapes public opinion regarding football in this city *behind the scenes*).
We’re not in the clear yet. When MLSE says it is a go and they have their signed amendment (City, Province and Federal government) then we’ll know it is a certainty. Until then we wait and continue to hope. There is not much else left for us to do.

Perhaps PB can give us an update when/if he reads this post.

[English Rachel]

Thank YOU Domin8r for spearheading the councillor contact campaign!

[Roogsy]

Well done Stu, Mayor Miller and Council.

How often does Council vote 29-0 in favour of something???


This will be Mayor Miller's legacy at BMO Field. Every time we remember that we first started with turf and finally got grass, we can thank the guy in 223.

[stugautz]

Here's what gets done with used turf.

this company recycles it into dog runs, etc.:

http://www.ondecksports.com/index.php?fuseaction=products.artificialturf_used

http://www.ondecksports.com/uploads/media/usedsyntheticturf.jpg


from $1 per square foot!

Can we get shoeless joe's to line part of the patio with the used turf? That would be pretty sweet!

[Wagner]

Domin8r for Mayor!!!!

[phonzo]

I just went 6 to midnight...huzzah!

[Rudi]

Here's what gets done with used turf.

this company recycles it into dog runs, etc.:

http://www.ondecksports.com/index.php?fuseaction=products.artificialturf_used

http://www.ondecksports.com/uploads/media/usedsyntheticturf.jpg


from $1 per square foot!
As I said on the U-Sector board, that is AstroTurf and similar first generation artificial turf products.

FieldTurf is not the same.

[Kevvv]

Here's what gets done with used turf.

this company recycles it into dog runs, etc.:

http://www.ondecksports.com/index.php?fuseaction=products.artificialturf_used

http://www.ondecksports.com/uploads/media/usedsyntheticturf.jpg


from $1 per square foot!

I wouldn't mind that for my lawn, TBH

[Gobi]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

Kudos to Stu and everyone who gave this the big push.
Made my day!

[Nodoubtguy]

I'm calling it now....gift with next years seasons tickets, a piece of the original BMO turf!!!

[mikenfer]

Excellent! Next season is shaping up nicely.

[Shway]

"WERE GETTING GRASS
WERE GETTING GRRR-AAA-SSSS
IT WENT TO COUNCILL
AND IT WAS PASS"

(to the tune of john b sloop)

[lips]

Yes Baby:drum:

[Gobi]

Here's what gets done with used turf.

this company recycles it into dog runs, etc.:

http://www.ondecksports.com/index.php?fuseaction=products.artificialturf_used

http://www.ondecksports.com/uploads/media/usedsyntheticturf.jpg


from $1 per square foot!



MLSE can cut it up into 1' squares and sell them as souvenirs...
Maybe SSHs will get a loyalty discount!
:rolleyes:

["THE PAGE"]

we shoild rip that useless turf off with our teeths now and carpet the southside

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Miller rocks.

[Detroit_TFC]

Hooray! I'll celebrate by having a beer.

Oh wait I do that every night...

...this will be a special commemorative beer!

[Hooligan69]

Totally awesome news. It's about time.

:flare::drum::flare:

[Belfast_Boy]

Excellent!!!

[zeelaw]

AWESOME WOOT! party!

[TFCUNITED]

We should start a grass thread comparing the different types of grass and which is best for BMO. :D

[egoodwin]

We should start a grass thread comparing the different types of grass and which is best for BMO. :D
or the mowing pattern of the grass... east/west strips could be good, less bs offsides I should hope

Also, this means more CMNT games at BMO

and most definitely it's a nail in the Argos coffin..

[Darlofletch]

or the mowing pattern of the grass... east/west strips could be good, less bs offsides I should hope

Also, this means more CMNT games at BMO

and most definitely it's a nail in the Argos coffin..

that grass pattern question was asked before, damned if I can be arsed to try and find the thread though.

[SilverSamurai]

Excellent! (in Mr.Burns voice)

[Darlofletch]

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=15705&highlight=grass

Found it.

How do you perfer your grass (sic)

[flatpicker]

I'll take the grass anyway I can get it.
But I suppose I prefer the wide lines cut into it.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/image/hdtv/Sony-KDL40X3500/football.jpg

[MUFC_Niagara]

woot woot

De Guzman and Grass - positivity rules!

On here? What is this thing you speak of...pos-itiv-ety?

GRASS AND A DP!!! :scarf::scarf::flare::flare::drum::drinking:

[egoodwin]

I want some design mowed into it... Anything, as long as it's not just a plain cut pitch...

[Auzzy]

29-0


http://s3.amazonaws.com/hgl/assets/3640/hooray_blog.jpg

[Davenport]

And here's what you get for $5.5 million

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7194/campoparacabrasmontes7ssy6.jpg

[Brooker]

I'm begging you.... BEGGING YOU!!!!

pleeeeeeeeeease don't turn this good news into a "All we are saying" chant thanking them.

[JonO]

I'll take the grass anyway I can get it.
But I suppose I prefer the wide lines cut into it.
If the lines are done right, it can help us judge offside calls ;)

[DOMIN8R]

Toronto City Council today approved the proposal to convert BMO Field to natural grass. This decision secures the second step in a four-party approval process and was arguably the biggest hurdle the proposal faced.

"Biggest issue was ensuring that we delivered our commitment to the community," said MLSE Executive Vice President of Venues, Bob Hunter. "That was the highest level of sensitivity that we had to address."
The natural grass-solution at BMO Field creates "nearly 35% more availability for the community" according to Hunter, once the plan is fully implemented. The plan will now be scrutinized at the provincial and federal levels as early as this week. Hunter noted that the "province has done its analysis, to the best of our knowledge, it is supportive."

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090930&content_id=7249002&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

[Ron Manager]

Anyone know what sort of pitch we are looking at? 3.5 mil seems alot for straight grass. I am wondering if we are looking at the pitch they use at Arsenal. 100% natural grass with synthetic fibres puched into it. PLay just like natural turf with added durability.

Link (http://www.dessosports.com/en/desso-grassmaster/)

[canadian_bhoy]

Soooo...

Last game of the season, run on the field and rip all that crap out? :D

[Auzzy]

Anyone know what sort of pitch we are looking at? 3.5 mil seems alot for straight grass. I am wondering if we are looking at the pitch they use at Arsenal. 100% natural grass with synthetic fibres puched into it. PLay just like natural turf with added durability.

Link (http://www.dessosports.com/en/desso-grassmaster/)


There's some real construction work involved. Sub-surface heating, perhaps also aeration, etc. I have not heard exactly what type of grass is planned.

[Ron Manager]

There are some photos of the Grassmaster install at Cardiff here (http://www.cardiffcitystadium.co.uk/index.php?view=article&catid=14%3Aground-shots&id=106%3A34-let-there-be-grass&option=com_content&Itemid=43) and here. (http://www.cardiffcitystadium.co.uk/index.php?view=article&catid=14%3Aground-shots&id=108%3A35-desso-work-continues&option=com_content&Itemid=43)

[Stugatzo]

I appreciate all the supportive words, and I will in turn give credit where it's due.
Hal (Domin8r) and the petition team and all you mo-fos (for the un-ending pressure on those of us at city hall and MLSE for making the case).
And most importantly MLSE...Bob Hunter and his team who are the ones shelling out $5.5 million to not only give us what we want and players deserve, but to increase public access to decent footy facilities year-round!
Just so you all know, we are in talks with the feds and province to get their agreement. It is more than a technicality, it is a necessity as they partially funded construction. We have reason to be optimistic, but I don't want to say it's a slam dunk at all. We have a compelling case and we will make it with vigour and with the power of the solid 29-0 vote behind us.
Our only regret is the Mayor was not in town for the vote (hanging with Gov. Schwarzenegger as an invited guest to a Climate Change summit in LA LA Land).
But make no mistake, he'll get this done if it's the last thing he does... :-)
Cheers, y'all!!
Stuart Green, Mayor's mouthpiece

[CretanBull]

Hooray! I'll celebrate by having a beer.

Oh wait I do that every night...

...this will be a special commemorative beer!


Mmmmmmmmmm.....commemorative beer :drool5:

[stugautz]

Anyone know what sort of pitch we are looking at? 3.5 mil seems alot for straight grass. I am wondering if we are looking at the pitch they use at Arsenal. 100% natural grass with synthetic fibres puched into it. PLay just like natural turf with added durability.

Link (http://www.dessosports.com/en/desso-grassmaster/)

That's the one the packers use. If you can grow grass in Green Bay in December, you can grow it anywhere.

[FluSH]

Any issue I've had with our Mayor and MLSE aside, this is one I will personally thank them for their work on if I see them in person.

Thank you Mayor Miller and those at MLSE who worked to get this done.



YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FluSH]

I appreciate all the supportive words, and I will in turn give credit where it's due.
Hal (Domin8r) and the petition team and all you mo-fos (for the un-ending pressure on those of us at city hall and MLSE for making the case).
And most importantly MLSE...Bob Hunter and his team who are the ones shelling out $5.5 million to not only give us what we want and players deserve, but to increase public access to decent footy facilities year-round!
Just so you all know, we are in talks with the feds and province to get their agreement. It is more than a technicality, it is a necessity as they partially funded construction. We have reason to be optimistic, but I don't want to say it's a slam dunk at all. We have a compelling case and we will make it with vigour and with the power of the solid 29-0 vote behind us.
Our only regret is the Mayor was not in town for the vote (hanging with Gov. Schwarzenegger as an invited guest to a Climate Change summit in LA LA Land).
But make no mistake, he'll get this done if it's the last thing he does... :-)
Cheers, y'all!!
Stuart Green, Mayor's mouthpiece

Please Please PLease tell me this will be so... :D

[greatwhitenorf]

Think if we'd been asked at start of season to pick two of these three: playoff qualification; grass; signing deguzman, the playoffs would be the odd one out.

Certainly sets the stage for better recruiting success in future and have to believe a good season next year will bring stadium expansion onto the front burner.

[billyfly]

I'd say grass and Playoffs. Sorry Julian.

[rocker]

what do the players in Europe think of Desso Grassmaster? I'd hate to install it and have complaints about it. I know it's not fieldturf, and real grass is the majority of the installation, but perhaps for now they should just go with a 100% real grass system. If they have trouble with that over the next few years, then do the Grassmaster installation. But a good grounds crew should be able to maintain it. They do in Chicago.

[ilikemusic]

The most significant development in franchise history. :scarf:

[andyc]

De Ro - $425,000
De Guz - $2,500,000
De Grass - Priceless!

I like grass a lot!

:D

[wzhxvy]

Awesome news ! Great day today

[DOMIN8R]

Stugatzo is right.
Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Limited should be given many thanks (Save your unkind remarks for another thread) and congratulations for their commitment to find the right solution.
Legal, engineering, lobbying and other costs before constructing the proposal for 5.5 million. They put their money down when it counted. We will all benefit as a result. Good work, gentlemen.
Please feel free to PM your insults directly to me.

[James17930]

Yeah -- everyone should stop complaining about the price increases. We got a DP and grass at the same time -- you can't drive a Cadillac and except to pay Ford Escort prices.

Now, if only that Cadillac can win the race . . .

[AL-MO]

Soooo...

Last game of the season, run on the field and rip all that crap out? :D

Naw....lets make this interesting....break out the flares...lets burn it up!!!!

[keem-o-sabi]

this is great, I'm so happy :)

[AL-MO]

this is great, I'm so happy :)

Canada/USA friendly in the future? :canada:

[Krasno.pL.]

Im smokin a fatty for the occasion! :D:D
Great Work To ALL who made this happen!

[ilikemusic]

We should start a grass thread comparing the different types of grass and which is best for BMO. :D

I am down for some good grass porn!

I want thin straight lines to help the MLS refs but I also want something cool like the big circles.

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/4218692/2/istockphoto_4218692-soccer-football-pitch-with-circular-design.jpg


What kind of irrigation and drainage system do ya think they'll use?!

:p

[CoachGT]

Thanks to Domin8r and Stugatz for all your work on this!

[scooter]

so now that its going to the provincial level should we start an email campaign to our local mpp's ?

[Phil]

so now that its going to the provincial level should we start an email campaign to our local mpp's ?

Things seem to be pointed in the right direction from this quote:


The plan will now be scrutinized at the provincial and federal levels as early as this week. Hunter noted that the "province has done its analysis, to the best of our knowledge, it is supportive."

Hopefully it moves fast too.

[prizby]

De Ro - $425,000
De Guz - $2,500,000
De Grass - Priceless!

I like grass a lot!

:D

I would love to see a 2 stick with this!

...

so 29-0 - pretty sure we have more than 29 councillers...did some abstain from voting?

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Canada/USA friendly in the future? :canada:

dreaming of the day!

[Oldtimer]

I would love to see a 2 stick with this!

...

so 29-0 - pretty sure we have more than 29 councillers...did some abstain from voting?

Mayor plus 44 councillors. Mayor was away. If you looked at the meeting, a lot of the councillor seats were empty.

[acman]

now that I've mean my season tickets go up$100 since season 1, I wonder when we will start to see massive increases to pay for grass at BMO. No one really expects MLSE to foot the bill themselves do they?

Sorry to be cynical, I know everyone is stoked to get grass, but for me the cost of a season ticket has to reflect the standard of the football

[rocker]

for me the cost of a season ticket has to reflect the standard of the football

you're watching the highest standard of football in north america.

[TFC07]

now that I've mean my season tickets go up$100 since season 1, I wonder when we will start to see massive increases to pay for grass at BMO. No one really expects MLSE to foot the bill themselves do they?

Sorry to be cynical, I know everyone is stoked to get grass, but for me the cost of a season ticket has to reflect the standard of the football

Just to set the record straight: Cost of grass ($3.5 million) is coming from Edu's transfer money. MLSE didn't spend a penny on grass, but they however going to pay for bubble to cover Lamport Stadium during winter months (cost: $1.2 million) and artificial turf field that would be built at Lakeshore Collegiate Institute for $800,000.

[Shakes McQueen]

Just to set the record straight: Cost of grass ($3.5 million) is coming from Edu's transfer money. MLSE didn't spend a penny on grass, but they however going to pay for bubble to cover Lamport Stadium during winter months (cost: $1.2 million) and artificial turf field that would be built at Lakeshore Collegiate Institute for $800,000.

They wouldn't have gotten approval for grass, if they hadn't fronted the other money, so I'm not sure what record you're setting straight. The entire proposal was $5.5m, so in practical terms, they did spend many pennies getting grass.

And are you sure that all $3.5m was from the Edu transfer? You're sure they hadn't spent any of it on other things? (ie. allocation)

- Scott

[Super]

They wouldn't have gotten approval for grass, if they hadn't fronted the other money, so I'm not sure what record you're setting straight. The entire proposal was $5.5m, so in practical terms, they did spend many pennies getting grass.

And are you sure that all $3.5m was from the Edu transfer? You're sure they hadn't spent any of it on other things? (ie. allocation)

- Scott

Hmm, the way I understood the $3.5m was that it had to be broken up and spent on different things - not just grass or academy, or whatever, and that a portion could (should?) be used in allocation money as well.

[Shakes McQueen]

Hmm, the way I understood the $3.5m was that it had to be broken up and spent on different things - not just grass or academy, or whatever, and that a portion could (should?) be used in allocation money as well.

I didn't realize that it HAD to be broken up for multiple things (assuming that's the case).

But it wouldn't surprise me if we did spend a pretty good chunk on allocation money. Especially given all of the hefty contracts we have right now.

- Scott

[Super]

I didn't realize that it HAD to be broken up for multiple things (assuming that's the case).

But it wouldn't surprise me if we did spend a pretty good chunk on allocation money. Especially given all of the hefty contracts we have right now.

- Scott

I'm 99% sure that I remember reading that we could only use $400,000 of the $3.5m (rest went to the MLS of course) towards our salary cap. The rest had to be spent on club infrastructure (stadium, grass, academy). 99% sure. The reason I remember the $400k is that I was quite upset about that detail and found it quite unfair and bush league. Maybe someone can confirm this for us.

[Super]

Here's a source:

http://thestar.blogs.com/torontofc/2008/08/index.html

A few commenters had asked what happens to the transfer money when MLS holds all the contracts.

Here's what happens:

League takes one third of the money, which in this case is a little under $1.7 million ($1,666,666.67 to be exact).

Of the roughly $3.3 million that remain, $500,000 goes to the team's allocation fund, which seems to grow with every transaction.

The final $2.8 million belong to the team to spend on soccer operations, which could include anything from the academy to training facilities to, dare we mention it, a grass playing surface.

That last suggestion's not coming from me. Johnston threw it out there during our conversation today. I'm sure it was mostly hypothetical. Johnston knows as well as anyone that there's a lot of politics involved in converting BMO Field to grass. But if the Edu sale helps make it possible, do you think they would name the new surface after him?

Maurice Edu Pitch at BMO Field?

Just a thought.

-- Morgan Campbell

[acman]

sorry, I'm a bit slow. What are the chances that our tickets are going to continue to rise at another 33% over the next few years? I think MLSE get too much credit for this grass issue. Just like any business, they will pass this on to the customer. That's the devil's advocate in me.

[Limani_Ole]

As long as the "waiting list" exists prices will go up.. thats how much they care about the fans who supported the team from day one..

They just replace them with bandwagon fans that are willing to pay more but will run once the novelty wears off.. its the Toronto way..

and its starting to show in this year's atmosphere.. just my opinion

[rocker]

i haven't been reading the board much lately so i may missed this but -- is there any word on when we'll find out about the Province + Feds signing off on this deal?

[craigtfc]

As long as the "waiting list" exists prices will go up.. thats how much they care about the fans who supported the team from day one..

They just replace them with bandwagon fans that are willing to pay more but will run once the novelty wears off.. its the Toronto way..

and its starting to show in this year's atmosphere.. just my opinion

If that happens you will be seeing alot of this in the stands.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:MxBzICAuj33uYM:http://www.plus.ac.uk/suits.jpg (http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.plus.ac.uk/suits.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.plus.ac.uk/ethics2.htm&usg=__rpy-ZsgWbKWu-MlkNXTiOOjoWUY=&h=420&w=551&sz=71&hl=en&start=7&um=1&tbnid=MxBzICAuj33uYM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=133&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmen%2Bwith%2Bsuits%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3 Den%26rlz%3D1W1ADFA_en%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1)
insteads of this:
http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/images/2009/04/03/lkaAxTId.jpg

[Hitcho]

Or more likely this:

http://thebonablog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/empty-seats-by-ron-davis-jan-2008.jpg

As has been noted before, once the original fans get priced out of the market and the casual higher paying fans get bored and stop coming, the original fans tend not to come back again. Bitterness stays in the mouth a long time.

[Oldtimer]

Or more likely this:

http://thebonablog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/empty-seats-by-ron-davis-jan-2008.jpg

As has been noted before, once the original fans get priced out of the market and the casual higher paying fans get bored and stop coming, the original fans tend not to come back again. Bitterness stays in the mouth a long time.

Which is what happened to the Jays.
Fairweather fans only show up for a winning team. Real fans who get priced out rarely come back.

[ensco]

Which is what happened to the Jays..

This is not what happened to the Jays. There have been thousands of inexpensive seats available for most Jays games since day one.

[Beach_Red]

This is not what happened to the Jays. There have been thousands of inexpensive seats available for most Jays games since day one.


Right. And you could say that the Jays hardcore supporters are still going to the games - is that enough for a baseball team?

[Phil]

This is not what happened to the Jays. There have been thousands of inexpensive seats available for most Jays games since day one.

Well that walkout did wonders for me as a seasons ticket holder.

I havent been back to a game since then.

I think the point is when you piss off the real supporters (walkout, pricing them out - wronging them) they don't flock back. Only the suits will as long as its 'trendy'.

[ensco]

Most of the hardcore baseball fans I know came back after the strike, eventually. Not that I don't respect anyone who didn't, I'm just not convinced that this is the explanation either.

I think it's on-the-field performance that accounts for the vast majority of the fan problem with the Jays. They'd get 40-50K again if the team were ever in a pennant race again.

[CoachGT]

I went to an average of about 35 baseball games a year pre strike. My high was 45 home games in 1985 when they won their first pennant.

Since the strike, I've been to exactly three games - two in boxes for work and one with seats over the Jays dugout that were given to me while I was downtown with a friend from another city who wanted to see a game.

Haven't been back and haven't missed it.

[scooter]

my family too had seasons tickets before the strike
my wife and i used to go 15 games live and watch countless others on tv
have not been back since the strike

dont miss it

my kids now watch ball games and have never seen me watch anything but soccer then they ask baseball ? and cant believe i know the answers its amusing

[Ipswich1]

Perfect way to sing in grass for next year - Tom Jones - "Green Green Grass of Home"