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View Full Version : Will TFC follow VC and have a Residency Program?



Shway
09-30-2009, 10:08 AM
I just read an article, in the news section about Vancouver starting to shape things up, and one of the things that popped out to me was that Vancouver will be the first MLS team with an Academy Residency Program.
So I was wondering if anyone has heard anything along the lines of this being a possible future for TFC. Or do they just want to go moderate with the academy program? And continuing signing players in there prime years (28+)

SilverSamurai
09-30-2009, 10:22 AM
VC=Vince Carter?
;)

Don Julio
09-30-2009, 10:31 AM
I think I read somewhere that it's not allowed in MLS, though that may change in the near future.

Macksam
09-30-2009, 10:45 AM
It's allowed now as Vancouver lobbied for the change. Otherwise, they would not have been able to keep theirs.

TFC07
09-30-2009, 10:58 AM
Will TFC follow VC and have a Residency Program?

I hope so, but it's going to cost a lot of money which I don't think MLSE is willing invest into though.

Hitcho
09-30-2009, 11:03 AM
Can someone explain what a residency program for an academy is?

Darlofletch
09-30-2009, 11:12 AM
presumably invite kids from across the country, have them live as well as train at the academy. Lilleshall would be the english fa equivalent.

that's my guess.

Section 117
09-30-2009, 11:20 AM
A residency program is for kids that are from out of town. It is usually part of the complex with the training facility. The academy would train there and go to school.

It is a quite a common thing for clubs in Europe to have a residency program.

IMO this would help out in the long run as we could get better players and be able to develop talent that our squad could use. Plus in the case of an emergency they could fill in if need be

C.Ronaldo
09-30-2009, 11:38 AM
boarding school essentially?

Hitcho
09-30-2009, 11:45 AM
Oh right. Makes sense now. I wasn;t sure if it was some kind of green card program for top prospects, which would be of limited value given the MLS rules on nationals etc.

My guess is MLSE would go for this if they could see a long term cost benefit to it. With Vancouver and Montreal (probably) joining the league it might prove to be a good way of snaffling the top young Canadian talent (and some US players if we can) before VC and MTL get their grubby mitts on them. Long term, that could indirectly save MLSE money but it won;t provide the kind fo benefit that it does to teams like Manu and LFC because if we sign anyone then MSL owns the rights and pays the wages. It won't be like finding Rooney at Everton and selling him to Manu for millions. And MLSE doesn't pay transfer fees anyway, so there's nothing to save there either.

So, unless I am missing something here, the main benefit to MLSE would be that this may help roduce a better team by saving Mo some drafting hassles, which in turn may help win trophies and that in turn may put more money in MSLE's pockets trough increasing the value fo the TFC "brand". but ti would be a very expensive way to do it by the sounds of things. So I can't see them going for it. Nice idea though.

denime
09-30-2009, 11:50 AM
I think TFC is already on that path.All U16 Academy kids are going to the same independent(Private) high school and after school they practice .all financed by MLSE.
I can see the next step will be residency program,but not before 2011,thanks to Vancouver negotiations with MLS to push them to allow Residency program.
I remember few months ago some numbers came out how much MLSE is investing in Academy programs,1st year it was $250K,this year $600K and next year it will be $1 million.
I think TFC is on the right path to have very successful development program in near future.

Hitcho
09-30-2009, 12:01 PM
hah! i stand corrected then - cheers Denime! :D

seriously though, that is encouraging news. I hoep that trend continues because it shows a real commitment to long term development of the club.

Detroit_TFC
09-30-2009, 12:12 PM
If team residency academy programs are allowed by MLS, I wonder if the signing rules for academies will be changed too. Developing talent for the team, and not just for the league (or anyone else who wants to sign the talent) has to be considered for figuring out if this is a good investment or not.

flatpicker
09-30-2009, 12:15 PM
But how useful is the academy or residency program if you aren't able to sign these kids to the big club?

How many of them can the Major League club protect?
I think it's only a few.

Hugh Jazz
09-30-2009, 12:41 PM
I believe teams can only sign one player per year but I'm not sure.

flatpicker
09-30-2009, 01:35 PM
^ which is super lame!

Those rules need to change... big time!

Hitcho
09-30-2009, 01:45 PM
Flats - bring back your steel RPB logo avatar - NOW DAMN YOU NOW!!!

And yeah, it's stupid to only be able to sign one player a year to the club from its academy. But then, it wouldn't exactly be the only stupid rule in the MLS charter now, would it?

mmmikey
09-30-2009, 01:55 PM
I believe teams can only sign one player per year but I'm not sure.

anyone understand the logic used to implement this rule? the only thing i could think of was that MLS is concerned that poor clubs who don't run strong academies would be at a "disadvantage" in comparison to those clubs developing strong youth talent pools.

seems silly to me. hurting the potential for talent development across the continent by reducing the overall benefit to the club while shutting out a cheap stream of talent (something MLS should be all over).

or did the NCAA send garber a boat load of cash to protect their athletic monopoly?

flatpicker
09-30-2009, 02:11 PM
Flats - bring back your steel RPB logo avatar - NOW DAMN YOU NOW!!!



ok ok...

Shway
09-30-2009, 03:12 PM
Flats - bring back your steel RPB logo avatar - NOW DAMN YOU NOW!!!

And yeah, it's stupid to only be able to sign one player a year to the club from its academy. But then, it wouldn't exactly be the only stupid rule in the MLS charter now, would it?

MLS Teams are allowed to sign 4 academy players per age group.
I think thats the new rule

Hitcho
09-30-2009, 03:16 PM
ok ok...

:D

You're a good man, Charlie Brown...

Shway
09-30-2009, 03:16 PM
But how useful is the academy or residency program if you aren't able to sign these kids to the big club?

How many of them can the Major League club protect?
I think it's only a few.

From what i know with the vancouver residency program, they travel to Germany, and more then a few players got signed. They have contracts that if the team buys the player they get a transfer fee, if the team that bought the player sells the player, Vancouver whitecaps get a percentage out of the sale aswell.

And if the player signs a 2 year contract, and at the end of their contract the team doesnt want to renew it. They could always return to Vancouver.

Its a win, win, situation.
And they also put $1,000,000 into their residency program.
So if TFC is at 600k i can see why they can't or will not end up running their own residency program.

denime
09-30-2009, 03:48 PM
From what i know with the vancouver residency program, they travel to Germany, and more then a few players got signed. They have contracts that if the team buys the player they get a transfer fee, if the team that bought the player sells the player, Vancouver whitecaps get a percentage out of the sale aswell.

And if the player signs a 2 year contract, and at the end of their contract the team doesnt want to renew it. They could always return to Vancouver.

Its a win, win, situation.
And they also put $1,000,000 into their residency program.
So if TFC is at 600k i can see why they can't or will not end up running their own residency program.

Because it is against MLS rules,until 2011.

RedRum
09-30-2009, 04:18 PM
Great. Residency program is refused by MLSE, providing Mo an excuse in year 6 of why TFC didn't make the playoffs again. MLSE buys it and gives him another 3 year extension. You heard it here first!!

SvenFlu
09-30-2009, 04:23 PM
I just read an article, in the news section about Vancouver starting to shape things up, and one of the things that popped out to me was that Vancouver will be the first MLS team with an Academy Residency Program.
So I was wondering if anyone has heard anything along the lines of this being a possible future for TFC. Or do they just want to go moderate with the academy program? And continuing signing players in there prime years (28+)

Vancouver is not the first MLS to have a full residency program. Chicago Fire is already doing that.

http://www.ussoccerplayers.com/ussoccerplayers/2009/09/mls-player-development-chicago-pushes-south.html

And MLS changed the rules from signing 1 player per age group to 4 players per age group (per year).

flatpicker
09-30-2009, 04:27 PM
^ well that's a little better I suppose.

Hugh Jazz
09-30-2009, 05:39 PM
In all likelihood, whats the chance any MLS academy will even develop four players worth signing in a given year to a 24 or even 28 man roster? I'd say if you can produce one youth player that can be a starter every few years you're doing alright. So far Attakora has been that player for TFC.

UltraSuperMegaMo
09-30-2009, 06:56 PM
I think the main thing that the MLS needs to borrow from the Vancouver setup is not the residential element, but the fact that their setup is professional rather than amateur (eg., that is too say it isn't constructed around preserving NCAA eligibility).

At some point the MLS should choose between academies and the draft, they're basically conflicting systems of development.

Ossington Mental Youth
09-30-2009, 08:47 PM
I wouldnt be surprised at all to see TFC start a residency program should MLS allow it. It was a big sticking point with Vancouver and joining. I know people bash MLSE but this would be seen as an investment with bigger positives than negatives financially and the team would benefit in a monstrous way.

T_Mizz
09-30-2009, 09:45 PM
I agree, this will be monstrous because this would mean that most of the best young canadian talent will be spread over just two teams. This professional environment can only be good for the development of these young players.

Shway
09-30-2009, 11:41 PM
Me three, they can go scout n.,s. america, the islands, to find players, and bring them to the TFC Academy...not Toronto FC Academy :rolleyes:

Macksam
10-01-2009, 08:02 AM
Will TFC follow VC and have a Residency Program?

I hope so, but it's going to cost a lot of money which I don't think MLSE is willing invest into though.
Vancouver's residency program costs about $1,000,000. If MLSE isn't willing to pour this kind of money into their youth development program, it would be a major fail.:facepalm:

Shway
10-01-2009, 10:28 AM
I think the main thing that the MLS needs to borrow from the Vancouver setup is not the residential element, but the fact that their setup is professional rather than amateur (eg., that is too say it isn't constructed around preserving NCAA eligibility).

At some point the MLS should choose between academies and the draft, they're basically conflicting systems of development.

This is sooooo true, and has to be determined early, because i dont see how Cronin, has learned more than Nana.


Vancouver's residency program costs about $1,000,000. If MLSE isn't willing to pour this kind of money into their youth development program, it would be a major fail.:facepalm:

According to Denime


I think TFC is already on that path.All U16 Academy kids are going to the same independent(Private) high school and after school they practice .all financed by MLSE.
I can see the next step will be residency program,but not before 2011,thanks to Vancouver negotiations with MLS to push them to allow Residency program.
I remember few months ago some numbers came out how much MLSE is investing in Academy programs,1st year it was $250K,this year $600K and next year it will be $1 million.
I think TFC is on the right path to have very successful development program in near future.

However, i want to know where and how was $600k spent on the team.
Entry to CSL no more then $100k
Jerseys, and training wear cant be that much because its not like they wear actual Toronto FC jerseys, they have the own brand:facepalm: TFC Academy. So i really want to know where all this money went to.
Did they go to Europe:rolleyes:

Pookie
10-01-2009, 11:46 AM
But how useful is the academy or residency program if you aren't able to sign these kids to the big club?



That sure is a loaded question right there.

On one hand, you'd think that if the club is investing in it they should be able to realize the benefits. You realize those beneifts by having rights to the players in who come through the program.

On the other, from a player/parent perspective... do I want to send my talented youngster to a program that essentially limits his future options? ie. If he is a defender and the team is stacked with defenders, does he get buried on the bench or on the reserves? Should he not be available to teams with a need for defenders within a draft?

Further, should the CSA not be entitled to a say in how the program is run? Of course, it hurts to say that, but the quality and nature of instruction shouldn't really be left to an individual club should it?

Would folks think it is a good idea that NHL teams could sign and retain the rights to Bantam/Midget aged players? Further, would it be a good idea to put them under the care of organizations like the Leafs and let the Leafs develop them or is it better for them to play in an independent system sanctioned by a governing body and then enable them to go where they want (NCAA, Europe, CHL, NHL, semi-pro leagues, etc) when they reach the age of 18?

I think soccer has a long way to go in terms of development. The differences between Rep/Select/Academies are real and standards vary according to your home club.

There is no clear path for developing players to take if they want to make a career of it and many of these "private" development clubs are sprouting up, largely operating independently of the CSA.

'bout time for some leadership

Macksam
10-01-2009, 05:01 PM
That sure is a loaded question right there.

On one hand, you'd think that if the club is investing in it they should be able to realize the benefits. You realize those beneifts by having rights to the players in who come through the program.

On the other, from a player/parent perspective... do I want to send my talented youngster to a program that essentially limits his future options? ie. If he is a defender and the team is stacked with defenders, does he get buried on the bench or on the reserves? Should he not be available to teams with a need for defenders within a draft?

Further, should the CSA not be entitled to a say in how the program is run? Of course, it hurts to say that, but the quality and nature of instruction shouldn't really be left to an individual club should it?

Would folks think it is a good idea that NHL teams could sign and retain the rights to Bantam/Midget aged players? Further, would it be a good idea to put them under the care of organizations like the Leafs and let the Leafs develop them or is it better for them to play in an independent system sanctioned by a governing body and then enable them to go where they want (NCAA, Europe, CHL, NHL, semi-pro leagues, etc) when they reach the age of 18?

I think soccer has a long way to go in terms of development. The differences between Rep/Select/Academies are real and standards vary according to your home club.

There is no clear path for developing players to take if they want to make a career of it and many of these "private" development clubs are sprouting up, largely operating independently of the CSA.

'bout time for some leadership
Have you ever followed european soccer?

Pookie
10-01-2009, 09:09 PM
Have you ever followed european soccer?

Not sure where you are going with that. Attempted put down or serious?

On the serious side, yeah, I follow some of the challenges of this system in European "soccer"... for instance:

Mbvoumin: 'Make no mistake, this is trafficking of young people (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/mbvoumin-make-no-mistake-this-is-trafficking-of-young-people-1789345.html)

flatpicker
10-01-2009, 09:17 PM
On the serious side, yeah, I follow some of the challenges of this system in European "soccer"... for instance:

Mbvoumin: 'Make no mistake, this is trafficking of young people (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/mbvoumin-make-no-mistake-this-is-trafficking-of-young-people-1789345.html)


just gave that a read... interesting stuff.

Shway
10-02-2009, 12:44 AM
Not sure where you are going with that. Attempted put down or serious?

On the serious side, yeah, I follow some of the challenges of this system in European "soccer"... for instance:

Mbvoumin: 'Make no mistake, this is trafficking of young people (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/mbvoumin-make-no-mistake-this-is-trafficking-of-young-people-1789345.html)

this DEFINATELY CANT happen in a parity league

Brooker
10-02-2009, 08:38 AM
VC=Vince Carter?
;)

took the words right outta my mouth. lol.

Shway
10-02-2009, 09:21 AM
mine aswell and call them Vince Carter , cause there SHIT

C.Ronaldo
10-02-2009, 09:37 AM
a league wide acamy might be the better option

also, perhaps the first round is based on drafting, after that its dibs on your own creations for depth players

also if a player from you academy gets picked in the first round, you get an incentive bonus.

denime
10-02-2009, 10:16 AM
That sure is a loaded question right there.

On one hand, you'd think that if the club is investing in it they should be able to realize the benefits. You realize those beneifts by having rights to the players in who come through the program.

On the other, from a player/parent perspective... do I want to send my talented youngster to a program that essentially limits his future options? ie. If he is a defender and the team is stacked with defenders, does he get buried on the bench or on the reserves? Should he not be available to teams with a need for defenders within a draft?

Further, should the CSA not be entitled to a say in how the program is run? Of course, it hurts to say that, but the quality and nature of instruction shouldn't really be left to an individual club should it?

Would folks think it is a good idea that NHL teams could sign and retain the rights to Bantam/Midget aged players? Further, would it be a good idea to put them under the care of organizations like the Leafs and let the Leafs develop them or is it better for them to play in an independent system sanctioned by a governing body and then enable them to go where they want (NCAA, Europe, CHL, NHL, semi-pro leagues, etc) when they reach the age of 18?

I think soccer has a long way to go in terms of development. The differences between Rep/Select/Academies are real and standards vary according to your home club.

There is no clear path for developing players to take if they want to make a career of it and many of these "private" development clubs are sprouting up, largely operating independently of the CSA.

'bout time for some leadership


No F*&king way,f*ck the CSA,and their leadership.

We are nowhere to be find on world soccer map thanks to amateurs from CSA,and you want them to take leadership in youth development,no thanks.

Please do not compare Hockey with Soccer if you want to make a point,try to compare Canadian soccer development with some other more successful country soccer development.

Anyway,SACK the CSA,and we can talk development :)

Pookie
10-02-2009, 01:15 PM
We are nowhere to be find on world soccer map thanks to amateurs from CSA,and you want them to take leadership in youth development,no thanks.

I acknowledge that development in Canada has a long way to go but the issue is do you get further along with a national association overseeing matters like competition (ie. The FA) or by individual clubs doing whatever the hell they want?

Whether that is the CSA or some other new body is another debate. The point is simply that a national association should have some degree of influence over what individual clubs do.


Please do not compare Hockey with Soccer if you want to make a point,try to compare Canadian soccer development with some other more successful country soccer development.

I realize I said a dirty word in Hockey but I'm thinking of my son who plays both sports. If he becomes a NCAA or CIS player, he's still the same guy. His rights, options and well being shouldn't be function of which sport he chooses.

Macksam
10-02-2009, 03:03 PM
No F*&king way,f*ck the CSA,and their leadership.

We are nowhere to be find on world soccer map thanks to amateurs from CSA,and you want them to take leadership in youth development,no thanks.

Please do not compare Hockey with Soccer if you want to make a point,try to compare Canadian soccer development with some other more successful country soccer development.

Anyway,SACK the CSA,and we can talk development :)
I was thinking something similar. As for Pookie saying the national governing body should oversee things, well they kind of lend a helping hand. The BCSA are starting to play a prominent role with the Whitecaps in youth development. I imagine the OSA are doing something similar with TFC.