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Oldtimer
09-28-2009, 09:01 AM
With CC almost certainly gone next year (even if TFC sneaks into the playoffs), it's a good time to start speculating over who might take over the reigns as coach of TFC for 2010.

Here are my picks as to possible candidates:

(1) Bruce Arena. One of the best coaches in MLS history, he and Mo are personal friends. Looking at what he accomplished at LA in one season gives a hint of what he could accomplish with TFC, especially now that we have JDG.

Why it might not happen: Arena seems to like the West Coast, and LA are probably paying him a tonne of money.

(2) Stephen Hart. Stephen knows our Canadian players well, they love to play for him. He has accomplished a lot as the CSA's technical director and as CMNT coach for the Gold Cup. The CSA does not appreciate him sufficiently and TFC could make him a good offer.

Why it might not happen: Hart is truly dedicated to Canadian Soccer. He might feel that helping a single club might not accomplish enough for Canadian soccer that he can do as technical director at the CSA.

(3) Paul Mariner. Former player with Ipswitch Town, Portsmouth, and Arsenal (giving him the British pedigree that Mo likes), he is the assistant for the Revs, the team that seems the most like TFC. He helped lead the Revs to 3 MLS Cup victories.

Why it might not happen: Mariner is really happy working for the Revs, and is almost a co-coach anyway. Also, almost any other team in MLS would want his services, and he might prefer to ply his trade stateside.


(4) Thomas Rongen. Former MLS coach of the year with Tampa Bay, he later coached DC United to an MLS Cup win. He's also coached the Revs. He currently coaches the US U-20 National Team.

Why it might not happen: Rongen might have his eyes on the US National Team position. Given that Bob Bradley has his detractors, the position could become vacant if the US doesn't make waves in the World Cup.

MG42
09-28-2009, 09:13 AM
With CC almost certainly gone next year (even if TFC sneaks into the playoffs), it's a good time to start speculating over who might take over the reigns as coach of TFC for 2010.

Here are my picks as to possible candidates:

(1) Bruce Arena. One of the best coaches in MLS history, he and Mo are personal friends. Looking at what he accomplished at LA in one season gives a hint of what he could accomplish with TFC, especially now that we have JDG.

Why it might not happen: Arena seems to like the West Coast, and LA are probably paying him a tonne of money.

(2) Stephen Hart. Stephen knows our Canadian players well, they love to play for him. He has accomplished a lot as the CSA's technical director and as CMNT coach for the Gold Cup. The CSA does not appreciate him sufficiently and TFC could make him a good offer.

Why it might not happen: Hart is truly dedicated to Canadian Soccer. He might feel that helping a single club might not accomplish enough for Canadian soccer that he can do as technical director at the CSA.

(3) Paul Mariner. Former player with Ipswitch Town, Portsmouth, and Arsenal (giving him the British pedigree that Mo likes), he is the assistant for the Revs, the team that seems the most like TFC. He helped lead the Revs to 3 MLS Cup victories.

Why it might not happen: Mariner is really happy working for the Revs, and is almost a co-coach anyway. Also, almost any other team in MLS would want his services, and he might prefer to ply his trade stateside.


(4) Thomas Rongen. Former MLS coach of the year with Tampa Bay, he later coached DC United to an MLS Cup win. He's also coached the Revs. He currently coaches the US U-20 National Team.

Why it might not happen: Rongen might have his eyes on the US National Team position. Given that Bob Bradley has his detractors, the position could become vacant if the US doesn't make waves in the World Cup.

No MLS cup victories, just made it to the finals

felipe
09-28-2009, 09:18 AM
To be honest, I'm not sure why any respected coach with options would want to come here.

We're a world soccer minnow, playing in a strange league with strange rules, (in a strange country!).

The coaching position appears to be meddled with by a hands on GM.

We've had three head coaches in three years.

He'll essentially be starting almost from scratch - I can't see Winsper staying if CC leaves.

With the noteable exception of working with two unfireable coaches; Cdn legend Dasovic, and TFC legend Dichio - whom he may not want, (all coaches want their own staff).

On that note, I'm hoping we get Frank Yallop; an experienced MLS title winning Cdn coach - I would imagine he'll get canned soon.

Ideally though, I'd love to keep CC, let him develop his team over an offseason - then we'll see what he can really do.

jabbronies
09-28-2009, 09:24 AM
To be honest, I'm not sure why any respected coach with options would want to come here.

We're a world soccer minnow, playing in a strange league with strange rules, (in a strange country!).

The coaching position appears to be meddled with by a hands on GM.

We've had three head coaches in three years.

He'll essentially be starting almost from scratch - I can't see Winsper staying if CC leaves.

With the noteable exception of working with two unfireable coaches; Cdn legend Dasovic, and TFC legend Dichio - whom he may not want, (all coaches want their own staff).

On that note, I'm hoping we get Frank Yallop; an experienced MLS title winning Cdn coach - I would imagine he'll get canned soon.

Ideally though, I'd love to keep CC, let him develop his team over an offseason - then we'll see what he can really do.


CC is good at developing young talent. I'm sure that's why he was brought in in the first place. he was just thrown into this position because there was no one else available. that's why he was given the title "Interm Head Coach" and not just "head coach" It was never planned for him to stay in this position. I just hope we keep him on as a dev coach.

Mo isn't a coach, he's a wheeler and dealer, that's why he stepped down and moved to the front office. He recognized what he wasn't good at and shifted his focus. he brought in Carver who in the end took off for whatever reason.

So the reality is, we've only hired 1 head coach who didn't work out. mo took himself upstairs and CC was thrown in there.

Beach_Red
09-28-2009, 09:27 AM
To be honest, I'm not sure why any respected coach with options would want to come here.

We're a world soccer minnow, playing in a strange league with strange rules, (in a strange country!).

The coaching position appears to be meddled with by a hands on GM.

We've had three head coaches in three years.

He'll essentially be starting almost from scratch - I can't see Winsper staying if CC leaves.

With the noteable exception of working with two unfireable coaches; Cdn legend Dasovic, and TFC legend Dichio - whom he may not want, (all coaches want their own staff).

On that note, I'm hoping we get Frank Yallop; an experienced MLS title winning Cdn coach - I would imagine he'll get canned soon.

Ideally though, I'd love to keep CC, let him develop his team over an offseason - then we'll see what he can really do.

The coaches mentioned are all good, realistic options. Why would they want to come here? This team has a lot of potential. We hate on the team, but it's three years old and in the middle of the pack in MLS - not sobad. A guy like Mariner could step into the solo head coach position here and probably do very well. It doesn't look like he's going to get that chance anytime soon in NE.

In the beginning the team was only offering short-term contracts so that was a problem for a lot of candidates. (I'm still shocked Mo moved his family here and bought a house - none of the other coaches the first season were willing to make any kind of committment at all). By now, the team can probably afford to make a longer-term contract offer to a coach with some pedigree.

There will be a lot more candidates now than there were when Carver was hired.

spark
09-28-2009, 09:45 AM
This might be worth a read (http://www.rednationonline.ca/the_interim_dilemma_with_paul_james_sept_25_09_new s.shtml).

Not sure if that means someone like Sasho Cirovski? But he's been connected with Bob Gansler so that probably would never happen.

I'm afraid that Mo is always going to be the X-factor that will determine what kind of coach we get.

Oldtimer
09-28-2009, 09:56 AM
No MLS cup victories, just made it to the finals

oops. You're correct.

Cas87
09-28-2009, 10:07 AM
Anyone think that Nick Dansovic could take over with CC and DD as assitants, and of course PW as strength and conditioning?

Or what about the Impact coach that was fired? forget his name, I'm pretty sure that he was suggested earlier in the year on these boards as a new assistant

Just my two cents

Chewy Unikronik
09-28-2009, 10:07 AM
We're a world soccer minnow, playing in a strange league with strange rules, (in a strange country!).
I don't get this comment at all... Are we on Mars or something?

rocker
09-28-2009, 10:09 AM
reasons to come to TFC?

1) great fans and atmosphere on gameday. better than coaching in front of 12000 in Nowheresville.
2) probably good paycheque
3) great facilities according to everyone who comes to BMO, and grass in 2010 probably
4) team of a nice mix of talent, young and old, missing only a couple pieces, also has a prime-of-career DP

some have mentioned the problem of not having total control, cuz Mo is up top. But I'm sure Mo is friends with many of the potential MLS candidates, having been a part of this league since the very beginning. No job will be perfect for these candidates anyways (except Arena, who seems to have a good situation in LA). Every MLS head coach job has its positives and negatives. i think TFC has more positives than negatives.

InTheCrowd
09-28-2009, 05:30 PM
This is a funny thread.

Shway
09-28-2009, 05:41 PM
Or what about the Impact coach that was fired? forget his name, I'm pretty sure that he was suggested earlier in the year on these boards as a new assistant

Just my two cents


John Limniatis....personally i think he would bring the coaching style that this crop of players need.

Or even bring him in as an Assitant...
shake up the british mafia

v00d00daddy
09-28-2009, 05:51 PM
To be honest, I'm not sure why any respected coach with options would want to come here.

We're a world soccer minnow, playing in a strange league with strange rules, (in a strange country!).

The coaching position appears to be meddled with by a hands on GM.

We've had three head coaches in three years.

He'll essentially be starting almost from scratch - I can't see Winsper staying if CC leaves.

With the noteable exception of working with two unfireable coaches; Cdn legend Dasovic, and TFC legend Dichio - whom he may not want, (all coaches want their own staff).

On that note, I'm hoping we get Frank Yallop; an experienced MLS title winning Cdn coach - I would imagine he'll get canned soon.

Ideally though, I'd love to keep CC, let him develop his team over an offseason - then we'll see what he can really do.

I was with you until the last sentence :D

v00d00daddy
09-28-2009, 05:52 PM
CC is good at developing young talent. I'm sure that's why he was brought in in the first place.

Just out of curiostiy...I've heard a bunch of people say this and I wonder where it came from.

Good at developing talent? How?

He was an academy coach at Watford and his claim to fame is Ashley Young.......and................................... .................................................. ..............................

Where did this youth development mystique come from?

Baggio2TFC
09-28-2009, 05:59 PM
I personally think Mo will keep CC as he did not have training camp with the boys last year(a la Jay Triano of the Raptors). I would Like to see Frank Yallop as well or even Bruce arenas.

I was also wondering what it would take to get Montreal's coach Marc Dos Santos?? I like the way his team(s) play and he seems to have a swagger about him. I know, I know...Montreal but...he'd make a real good coach in MLS(TFC) I think.

My $0.02

Shway
09-28-2009, 06:26 PM
(If I had my realistic choice)
:cool:2010 Coaching Staff



Director of Soccer: Mo Johnston

Manager: Frank Yallop

Head Coach: John Limniatis

Assistant Coach: Nick Dasovic

Goal Keeper Coach: Mike Toshack

Reserve Team Coach: Chris Cummins

Chief Scout: Stephen Hart

Strength and Conditioning: Paul Winsper

Equipment Manager: Malcom Phillips

Athletic Therapist: Carmelo Lobue

Assistant Athletic Therapist: Shawn Jeffers

Massage Therapist: Marcelo Casal

Club Doctor: Dr. Ira Smith

Manager of Team Services: Earl Cochcrane

jloome
09-28-2009, 06:41 PM
Never happen. We're doomed, as far as a good coach is concerned, to whomever is willing to work under Mo. So you can count out Arena (really, dude, what are you smoking), Yallop, Mariner and anyone else who'll want to be able to pull the trigger on deals.

It'll have to be a foreigner (no coach with MLS experience will be happy without full player control) and it'll have to be someone who trusts Mo, so look for next year's sacrificial lamb to be either a Brit or an ex-MLS player without enough coaching experience to undo Mo's roster inadequacies.

Sheesh. The optimism around here given our current situation is somewhat staggering and difficult to understand.

Shway
09-28-2009, 06:50 PM
my picks was shear optimism, never really any realisism (if thats a word)

SilverSamurai
09-28-2009, 10:00 PM
John Limniatis....personally i think he would bring the coaching style that this crop of players need.

Or even bring him in as an Assitant...
shake up the british mafia

Won't happen. He probably won't want to move his family out of the Montreal area. I do think he would be good possible candidate though. Maybe even as an assistant.
I would like to see him as an assistant for the CMNT since he's probably one of the few Canadian coaches out there that has experience in CONCACAF, let alone winning experience.

On a side note, maybe we could bring over a coach from La Liga. You've got to think that JDG has some connections over there or maybe with someone from the Bundesliga.

Macksam
09-28-2009, 10:03 PM
Jose Pekerman.:drinking:

ensco
09-29-2009, 06:56 AM
Holger Osieck, maybe?

Oldtimer
09-29-2009, 07:12 AM
On a side note, maybe we could bring over a coach from La Liga. You've got to think that JDG has some connections over there or maybe with someone from the Bundesliga.

Yet can a coach who is used to having 18 great players, adjust to having 2 great players, 5-7 good players, and 9-11 League-2 quality players -- because that's what an MLS squad is. Most foreign coaches can't hack it.

canadian_bhoy
09-29-2009, 07:27 AM
Just like Dero and DeGuz - One way or another, if it takes a few months or a few years, Mo gets his man.

You'll see Steve Nicol managing TFC next season.

koryo
09-29-2009, 07:32 AM
Just like Dero and DeGuz - One way or another, if it takes a few months or a few years, Mo gets his man.

You'll see Steve Nicol managing TFC next season.

He's out of contract at the end of this season, isn't he?

Word on the street is that he's thinking of moving on.

I'd have no problem with Nicol coming here.

Flipityflu
09-29-2009, 07:33 AM
Just like Dero and DeGuz - One way or another, if it takes a few months or a few years, Mo gets his man.

You'll see Steve Nicol managing TFC next season.


my fingers are crossed on that one.

maninb
09-29-2009, 07:45 AM
Nicol or Yallop....no way CC stays...IMO the players don't trust him...his player management SUCKS!!!

canadian_bhoy
09-29-2009, 07:50 AM
He's out of contract at the end of this season, isn't he?

Word on the street is that he's thinking of moving on.

I'd have no problem with Nicol coming here.

I thought so too, but according to Ives, he's got 2 years left. I still think there is a good chance he will come to Toronto. He's done it all (except the cup) in NE, it's time for a fresh start.

I honestly can't see anyone matching up to Nicol for the job in TO and he's the guy that Mo wants.

Hitcho
09-29-2009, 08:19 AM
Just like Dero and DeGuz - One way or another, if it takes a few months or a few years, Mo gets his man.

You'll see Steve Nicol managing TFC next season.



I thought so too, but according to Ives, he's got 2 years left. I still think there is a good chance he will come to Toronto. He's done it all (except the cup) in NE, it's time for a fresh start.

I honestly can't see anyone matching up to Nicol for the job in TO and he's the guy that Mo wants.

I'm with you Mike - get 'er done Mo!!!

:scarf::scarf::scarf:

Oh, and as for reasons for a coach to come here:

- TFC have never fired a head coach, Mo moved upstairs, Carver walked out and CC was an interim appointment to get us through the season.

- If you're going to come to MLS, may as well come to TFC as anywhere else: top fans, (hopefully) grass in 2010, top facilities (if we get grass), great playing squad stacked with young talent and a DP in his footballing prime, GM who can deal the marrow out of people's bones without them realising until it's too late, mega-rich owners who seem to be happy to spend big if they feel it is worth doing so (grass, JDG, potential new north stand), and despite what anyone else says TO is a great city to live in. NYC and LA may be the big draws in MLS, but I'd say TO comes at least equal third on the list. Sure the winters suck but everyone leaves for the really bad bits! :D

Oldtimer
09-29-2009, 08:31 AM
I'd love it if Nicol were to come here. It's just that I didn't think it too likely for 2010.

Beach_Red
09-29-2009, 08:51 AM
Never happen. We're doomed, as far as a good coach is concerned, to whomever is willing to work under Mo. So you can count out Arena (really, dude, what are you smoking), Yallop, Mariner and anyone else who'll want to be able to pull the trigger on deals.



I guess soccer really is different. You see guys moving from coach to manager and back all the time in North American sports. You see guys working "under" someone they themselves trained (although most often these relationships more resemble partnerships or a dividing of duties rather than boss-employee - even Carver said he had huge input into player selection and Mo just did the contract negotiating).

I guess I could see Yallop not wanting to come, and Arena, but if a guy doesn't want to step up from assistant to head coach, then that's really a problem. I've never heard of it in any other sport. American football coaches will do anything to become head coaches - and then they'll design a system around the players they have and never complain the GM didn't get them the right guys. I mean, the Giants won the Super Bowl with Eli Manning at quarterback.

If Mo Johnston is a big enough "problem" to prevent guys from making a move to head coach I have to question if soccer can really make it America. It's not the way the Americans think. For that opportunity guys will work with anyone. How many times did Billy Martin go back to the Yankees after Stienbrenner fired him?

I've read it a few times on this board and I haven't seen, since he's been in Toronto, anything about Mo that would keep an ambitious guy away. But you guys know soccer a lot better than I do, so if that's the case, it may not be able to really take root in America.

ManUtd4ever
09-29-2009, 08:56 AM
I'd be thrilled with Nicol, Arena, or Yallop, and contrary to what the naysayers have to say, I think Toronto FC is one of the most desirable clubs to join in MLS based on fan support as well as on field potential...

SilverSamurai
09-29-2009, 10:20 AM
I guess soccer really is different. You see guys moving from coach to manager and back all the time in North American sports. You see guys working "under" someone they themselves trained (although most often these relationships more resemble partnerships or a dividing of duties rather than boss-employee - even Carver said he had huge input into player selection and Mo just did the contract negotiating).

I guess I could see Yallop not wanting to come, and Arena, but if a guy doesn't want to step up from assistant to head coach, then that's really a problem. I've never heard of it in any other sport. American football coaches will do anything to become head coaches - and then they'll design a system around the players they have and never complain the GM didn't get them the right guys. I mean, the Giants won the Super Bowl with Eli Manning at quarterback.

If Mo Johnston is a big enough "problem" to prevent guys from making a move to head coach I have to question if soccer can really make it America. It's not the way the Americans think. For that opportunity guys will work with anyone. How many times did Billy Martin go back to the Yankees after Stienbrenner fired him?

I've read it a few times on this board and I haven't seen, since he's been in Toronto, anything about Mo that would keep an ambitious guy away. But you guys know soccer a lot better than I do, so if that's the case, it may not be able to really take root in America.

You forget, we're only part of NORTH AMERICA, not the US. Even though we play in an American league, culturally and I know this comes to a shock to people sometimes, we are different. It's not night and day but we're different.
I do see what you're getting at though.

fetajr
09-29-2009, 10:27 AM
STEVEN FUCKIN HART, NOW please!..fuck the off season, get him here NOW to salvage the season.

Kaz
09-29-2009, 11:00 AM
I want a Japanese coach with no ability to speak english and has never seen a MLS game... Preferably one that can't find Toronto on a Map.. my guess is that is what Mo is looking for too..

Hitcho
09-29-2009, 11:25 AM
I want a Japanese coach with no ability to speak english and has never seen a MLS game... Preferably one that can't find Toronto on a Map.. my guess is that is what Mo is looking for too..

hah! this si quite funny, but it's also quite unfair. Mo has only made one head caoch appointment, that was Carver, and he was stuck with third choice (apparently). Cummins was forced on us ebcause early into the season no good MLS head coaches are available. Frankly I am glad he waited and went the interim route than saddled us with an immediate head coach replacement who would not otherwise have made a short list in the off season.

having said that, the next coaching appointment is absolutely key to TFC's immediate future. Massive event, much bigger even than grass in my book.

jloome
09-29-2009, 11:42 AM
He's out of contract at the end of this season, isn't he?

Word on the street is that he's thinking of moving on.

I'd have no problem with Nicol coming here.

Nicol has two years left on his deal. And what "street" would that be, since I can't find it reported on any blogs, newspapers etc.

mmmikey
09-29-2009, 11:48 AM
i can't see CC staying on as head coach. considering all the flack aimed at him lately, if Mo was really intending to keep him on and let him have an off season to work on the team, then i would have expected one of those super spin master confidence boosting press conferences where the interim tag is removed. "This is our guy! Best in the business! Group hug!"

jloome
09-29-2009, 11:48 AM
I guess soccer really is different. You see guys moving from coach to manager and back all the time in North American sports. You see guys working "under" someone they themselves trained (although most often these relationships more resemble partnerships or a dividing of duties rather than boss-employee - even Carver said he had huge input into player selection and Mo just did the contract negotiating).

I guess I could see Yallop not wanting to come, and Arena, but if a guy doesn't want to step up from assistant to head coach, then that's really a problem. I've never heard of it in any other sport. American football coaches will do anything to become head coaches - and then they'll design a system around the players they have and never complain the GM didn't get them the right guys. I mean, the Giants won the Super Bowl with Eli Manning at quarterback.

If Mo Johnston is a big enough "problem" to prevent guys from making a move to head coach I have to question if soccer can really make it America. It's not the way the Americans think. For that opportunity guys will work with anyone. How many times did Billy Martin go back to the Yankees after Stienbrenner fired him?

I've read it a few times on this board and I haven't seen, since he's been in Toronto, anything about Mo that would keep an ambitious guy away. But you guys know soccer a lot better than I do, so if that's the case, it may not be able to really take root in America.

Beach, if you as a coach had it on the inside track from other coaches that Mo was a boob and a fuckup who's been lucky on draft picks and is friends with Walter Smith, would you want your first head coaching experiecne to be dependent on Mo's player selections?

People here ARE thinking like north american sports fans. It's common to have a GM and a head coach in North America. But most of the people we'd be considering (including Paul Mariner, longtime Ipswich and Arsenal striker) are from a culture where the guy calling the shots on the field is also the guy making the trades.

To have a situation otherwise would handcuff them in a league where that's a much bigger problem than other major leagues in north america. Sure, the NHL has a cap. But it's large enough that you can put out three good lines and not worry that your tactical calls will be limited by whom you can select.

Even the CFL, at over $4 million for its cap, has issues with this; how many coaches have been scapegoated to protect a GM over the years? Enough that as soon as guys like Matthews and Campbell and Buono have had the opportunity, they've demanded the right to pull the trigger on deals.

Now, put yourself in the shoes of someone coming from a soccer background, where almost all head "coaches" are actually "managers" and control their own show. Who the hell would want to walk into a vacancy where the GM can't even put a proper first-rate centre half or winger on the field?

We are a wholly deficient team with some very good parts. That speaks directly to the overall abilities of the GM. That's going to limit the ability for success of any coach coming in. And they all have other options. There's lots of turnover annually in the football world.

Monztro
09-29-2009, 12:46 PM
^^^

Great comment and so true on all fronts, its just a matter of someone (beach) not researching as much as they should have.

As a coach, you have a vision of how the game is to be played and what pieces you need to achieve the vision (in any sport) therefore the coach must have most if not all the say on who to acquire, and when and how to play them.

Oldtimer
09-29-2009, 01:04 PM
Beach, if you as a coach had it on the inside track from other coaches that Mo was a boob and a fuckup who's been lucky on draft picks and is friends with Walter Smith, would you want your first head coaching experiecne to be dependent on Mo's player selections?



Harsh to the point of ruining the credibility of your post, jloome.

I have trouble with the internationals Mo has brought in, and the lack of a good coach, but no-one should be claiming that his draft picks were mere "luck." Even Ives says that Mo is the best drafter in MLS.

jloome
09-29-2009, 01:22 PM
Harsh to the point of ruining the credibility of your post, jloome.

I have trouble with the internationals Mo has brought in, and the lack of a good coach, but no-one should be claiming that his draft picks were mere "luck." Even Ives says that Mo is the best drafter in MLS.

How do you figure, when every one of those players was rated in the top 10 before the draft was even held?

And do you not consider it blind luck that Stefan Frei was still on the board with the 13th pick?

Similarly, Mo Edu was the top-rated player coming out of the draft in 2007. So why would it be a surprise when we pick him?

Mo gets credit for two picks in his career: Jozy Altidore (again, known by everyone, but no one took a flyer on a kid his age) and OB White, because he was willing to take a chance they could rehab his knee properly.

The rest were evident to everyone; and before you say "then why did we get them," consider that this was the best draft in years. If we didn't get them, with the high picks we had, we would've gotten Omar Gonzalez, or Chris Pontius, or Zakuania or Rod Wallace, or any other of the impact draftees this year. THere are several, not just our guys.

Look, even if Mo WERE the best drafter in MLS, that wouldn't mean much, because the draft is, typically, a small cog in a very large wheel when it comes to picking the right players. "Building for the future" won't help you if the rest of the lineup is made up of some of the cast-offable material we have.

Keegan
09-29-2009, 01:22 PM
DALE MITCHELL

Its perfect, De Rosario and De Guzman absolutely WORSHIP the man. And he has coached Gala, Serioux, Brennan, Gerba and Attakora before!

AND AS EVIDENCED BY THE 2007 U20 World Cup the guy gets his teams to SCORE

Beach_Red
09-29-2009, 01:31 PM
^^^

Great comment and so true on all fronts, its just a matter of someone (beach) not researching as much as they should have.

As a coach, you have a vision of how the game is to be played and what pieces you need to achieve the vision (in any sport) therefore the coach must have most if not all the say on who to acquire, and when and how to play them.


Oh, I'm certainly guilty of not researching worldwide soccer enough. My only concern is it going to survive in America this time. It's still doubtful.

I understand what you mean about being in charge and then working for someone else (though it's still speculation how much input on the deals the coach would have), but it happens all the time - look at Pat Quinn with the Oilers. Martin in Montreal. We're used to guys moving from GM to coach. I remember when the Expos moved Jim Fanning from Vice President to the dugout.

I'm not sure how to go about researching if our GM is a "boob," who just got lucky in the draft in anything other than hearsay. I'm also not knowledgeable enough in the sport to know how well our roster stacks up against the other MLS teams (which is really all that matters). Sometimes I watch games online and hear the commentators from other cities and so far every complaint we have about TFC has shown up there, too (no depth, players playing out of position, difficulty in signing players, etc.,), so it's hard to know. The talk here usually sounds like ours is the only team with problems, or that ours are easy to solve.

Maybe in North America we're used to the idea that coaches have to improvise with what they have - the Giants won the Super Bowl with Eli Mannig at QB for God's sake - and not just "pull the trigger" on a deal for a better player. It's a different approach, to be sure, and MLS trying the American version may not work.

olegunnar
09-29-2009, 02:07 PM
Hey Beach

It's pretty simple and I apologize if you know this/or it's already been posted.
Around the world the
1) Manager/Boss/Gaffer assembles the roster, picks the players on gameday, implements the tactics, works with the business side to negotiated contracts buys/sells transfers etc. etc.
2) Coach, puts out the pylons on the training pitch and runs training sessions. A lot of times the coach is the #2 and has the ear of the Manager (lets get this guy, how about we try this formation) etc. etc.

I guess in a North American way it's similar the Coach-Assistant Coach relationship

Here...In our case...it looks as if we have a situation where the duties have been split up /mish-mashed....where the Manager has less to do but maintains the Manager control of the roster etc., and the coach has more to do, but is at the mercy of the Managers roster decisions.

So it's framed as a General Manager-Coach type of relationship when in fact it's more of a Coach-Assistant coach relationship since in our case the "coach" CC has little influence on his own success.

Beach_Red
09-29-2009, 02:25 PM
Thanks, that's about what I figured. It's a little like NFL football where the coach has a lot of say, but because there's no transfer market and very little free agency there's less player movement, leaving less for the GM to do. NFL coaches have preferred styles of play (say a West Coast offense) but if they can't get players for that they'll use something else that fits the players they can get. Look at what Philly is doing with Vick this year.

But what was it with Carver? He always said he had input, he handled all the trials and looked at everyone who might be available. If there was someone he thought might come to TFC and fit under the cap Mo went after him (Laurent Robert for example). That's probably not the role that Cummins has.

And we have no idea what kind of GM-Coach relationship the next guy will have.

All these weird MLS roster rules make the manager-coach relationship here unique. The salary cap, the allocation money, the domestic requirements, the no transfer fees, the barely any loan agreements and so on. That makes it more like an NHL or NBA style GM-Coach where the GM (with input) gets the players and the coach decides on tactics (maybe even with input).

So, all I'm saying is that saying this guy or that guy, 'won't come to TFC' because of our manager is just speculation. Maybe people have inside information they can't share on a public forum, that's fine, but it will be a tough sell to American sports fans if a qualified assistant coach turns down a move to head coach because he won't have total control.

olegunnar
09-29-2009, 02:37 PM
So, all I'm saying is that saying this guy or that guy, 'won't come to TFC' because of our manager is just speculation. Maybe people have inside information they can't share on a public forum, that's fine, but it will be a tough sell to American sports fans if a qualified assistant coach turns down a move to head coach because he won't have total control.

I think the issue is that a quality and experienced candidate will want more control over his own destiny/success, and will want the manager's job. Like for example Bruce Arena, he's a manager, as opposed to Chris Cummins being a coach.


I also think in Carver's case it's a situation of posturing. Why would you go from being a coach or at best a caretaker, in England to a demotion??? the same job in Canada. By insinuating in the press he actually had managerial duties, the job here seemed like a bit less of a demotion.

My guess would be he thought he could "manage" here for a couple of years then go back to England as a Manager rather than back as a coach.

mmmikey
09-29-2009, 03:22 PM
since MLS employs so many complicated roster rules and financial restrictions, wouldn't this be a league where a sporting directory/manager split of duties be beneficial? im no fan of this method with the other teams i follow (read: comolli & spurs) but we are not in a typical situation in this league.

the model of the manager making all decisions including player moves used to be the way to go in the NFL as well. but as the salary cap took hold, teams found that it was much more beneficial to have a split of duties, where one guy was concerned with the business side of acquisitions and scouting etc and the fine art of cap management (HUGE skill in the NFL), while the head coach works cooperatively with the GM so he gets what he wants. of course, these situations work best when the people who hold these positions work cooperatively. in the nfl, sometimes the head coach still maintains final say (in philly andy reid has the final say on everything, but their GM joe banner is just as fundamental to their success).

now, i am not saying that because it works in the NFL, it should work for us. if Mo & whoever the HC is next year don't work as a team to assemble the roster, then this setup will not work. for all we know tho, CC has signed off on all these moves.

point is, its not necessarily the setup that's flawed, as it can work very well in MLS. it's really up to the ppl who hold the positions. this really comes down to whether Mo can be cooperative with his HC or not. he seems to know how to work the MLS system reasonably well, which would indicate he should fill a GM type role well in this league. if he is close minded and doesn't listen to his HC, we should find out soon enough. he won't have anywhere to hide next season. 1st year he wasn't a coach, 2nd year he brings in carver, who leaves at the start of the 3rd year. now it looks like someone will replace CC. he is out of ppl to hide behind.

jloome
09-29-2009, 06:14 PM
since MLS employs so many complicated roster rules and financial restrictions, wouldn't this be a league where a sporting directory/manager split of duties be beneficial? im no fan of this method with the other teams i follow (read: comolli & spurs) but we are not in a typical situation in this league.

the model of the manager making all decisions including player moves used to be the way to go in the NFL as well. but as the salary cap took hold, teams found that it was much more beneficial to have a split of duties, where one guy was concerned with the business side of acquisitions and scouting etc and the fine art of cap management (HUGE skill in the NFL), while the head coach works cooperatively with the GM so he gets what he wants. of course, these situations work best when the people who hold these positions work cooperatively. in the nfl, sometimes the head coach still maintains final say (in philly andy reid has the final say on everything, but their GM joe banner is just as fundamental to their success).

now, i am not saying that because it works in the NFL, it should work for us. if Mo & whoever the HC is next year don't work as a team to assemble the roster, then this setup will not work. for all we know tho, CC has signed off on all these moves.

point is, its not necessarily the setup that's flawed, as it can work very well in MLS. it's really up to the ppl who hold the positions. this really comes down to whether Mo can be cooperative with his HC or not. he seems to know how to work the MLS system reasonably well, which would indicate he should fill a GM type role well in this league. if he is close minded and doesn't listen to his HC, we should find out soon enough. he won't have anywhere to hide next season. 1st year he wasn't a coach, 2nd year he brings in carver, who leaves at the start of the 3rd year. now it looks like someone will replace CC. he is out of ppl to hide behind.

A telling issue on this front was Carver's initial statement that the league didn't want him coaching from the overhead boxes. It took a few days and an MLS reaction before Mo clarified that it was his call. But the initial impression, based on Carver's statements publicly, is that Mo left him with the impression it was a league decision.

Based on that sort of thing (and repeated comments from people who do know what they're talking about) I think Mo's got people-skill issues.

King Tut
09-30-2009, 02:10 AM
1) Steve Nicol
2) Bruce Arena
3) Juan Carlos Osorio
4) Preki
5) Dominic Kinnear
6) Sigi Schmid

Any of these 6 would do! :)

Cashcleaner
09-30-2009, 02:29 AM
(If I had my realistic choice)
:cool:2010 Coaching Staff



Director of Soccer: Mo Johnston

Manager: Frank Yallop

Head Coach: John Limniatis

Assistant Coach: Nick Dasovic

Goal Keeper Coach: Mike Toshack

Reserve Team Coach: Chris Cummins

Chief Scout: Stephen Hart

Strength and Conditioning: Paul Winsper

Equipment Manager: Malcom Phillips

Athletic Therapist: Carmelo Lobue

Assistant Athletic Therapist: Shawn Jeffers

Massage Therapist: Marcelo Casal

Club Doctor: Dr. Ira Smith

Manager of Team Services: Earl Cochcrane

Ummmmm; great list so far, but you're missing something.

TFC Academy Coach: Danny Dichio :cool:

Personally, I too like the idea of Yallop or Limniatus as Head Coach and/or Manager. Yallop would be my first choice just for the experience he could bring, but I respect Limniatus and think he can do a lot with limited talent.

Beach_Red
09-30-2009, 07:31 AM
A telling issue on this front was Carver's initial statement that the league didn't want him coaching from the overhead boxes. It took a few days and an MLS reaction before Mo clarified that it was his call. But the initial impression, based on Carver's statements publicly, is that Mo left him with the impression it was a league decision.

Based on that sort of thing (and repeated comments from people who do know what they're talking about) I think Mo's got people-skill issues.


Yes lots of complaining and anonymous whining. It's just that if this is where the bar is set on "people skills" being a recruitment prblem in soccer the sport may have some touble getting American fans who are used to NFL coaches and managers - you need a very thick skin to be involved in the NFL - even college football coaches are rarely known for their "people skills." It's a style Americans have loved since before Vince Lombardi.

It's tough to use CFL coaches as a comparison - especially someone like Hughy Campbell who bombed out so bad in Houston and Don Matthews whose people skills are probably worse than Mo's.

Even here in Toronto people are thrilled to have Brian Burke and Ron Wilson running the Leafs, two guys who could give master classes on "people skills."

If Mo scares guys away from taking the job, this sport really has a PR job cut out for it.

koryo
09-30-2009, 07:39 AM
Nicol has two years left on his deal. And what "street" would that be, since I can't find it reported on any blogs, newspapers etc.

It was earlier in the season, there were grumblings about him wanting to leave. No source to point to. Take it for what you will.

And yes, as CB pointed out on the previous page, he has two years left. My mistake.

Oldtimer
09-30-2009, 07:59 AM
How do you figure, when every one of those players was rated in the top 10 before the draft was even held?

And do you not consider it blind luck that Stefan Frei was still on the board with the 13th pick?



No, it's not blind luck, otherwise other GMs would do as well.
Mo consistently knows when to deal, when to trade, who to go for.
A record proven year over year.

Jozy wasn't on anyone's radar. Yet is has turned out to be one of the best Americans of his generation.

Mo's draft research is meticulous, and he probably knows MLS' arcane rules as well as Don Garber.

So give credit where it is due.

That being said, his overall record as a GM in my books is D+, because being a great drafter is only 30% of the job, and he hasn't impressed with the 70% yet.

felipe
09-30-2009, 08:42 AM
Just to address what Beach is saying...

Yes, Billy Martin came and went from the Ny Yankees many times...because they're the New York Yankees!

And yes NFL coaches have thick skins and peronality issues, but its the NFL!

You are comparing the top elite team/leagues in their sport with MLS and TFC - its not the same thing and not a fair comparison.

There are literally hundreds of jobs around the world that a coach can take that will be of a higher level of player, a higher salary for the coach, and more control of team matters.

People make snide remarks about teams in league two in england, but if you're a manager, you'll get noticed more there than in the MLS if your ambition is to climb the managerial rungs and get a chance with a top club in the championship or premiership.

Coaches will take the job here as a stepping stone to build their career - not as a end all, pinnacle of their career - if they think that they will be interfered with and not able to put their stamp on things - they won't come. Why leave a successful program (like Mariner) where your input in valued and you enjoy coming to work? Where you are defiently next in line to run that franchise if Nicol retires or gets a better job as youth coach for Raith Rovers? Leave a good secure situation for an uncertain situation?

No matter how you slice it, its 3 coaches in 3 years; It doesn't matter that noone has been 'fired'. That's terrible job security. Yes the fans are great, but that's 2 hours in a long work week - its the people you work with on a daily basis (players, staff, board, GM)that influences your decision on where to coach.

Unless they're sure that they will get total leeway - no big name coach will come to TFC. They want to put their stamp on things, do it their way - if they're unsure that they'll get that freedom, they'll either not come or leave half way through.

Frankly, if I was a big name assistant, I'd be looking around for a top NCAA program to run - thats the real pinnacle of soccer in North America. Good pay, 'easy' college chicks...

jloome
09-30-2009, 11:22 AM
Jozy wasn't on anyone's radar. Yet is has turned out to be one of the best Americans of his generation.

Mo's draft research is meticulous, and he probably knows MLS' arcane rules as well as Don Garber.

So give credit where it is due.

That being said, his overall record as a GM in my books is D+, because being a great drafter is only 30% of the job, and he hasn't impressed with the 70% yet.

Again, I'm not suggesting he's a bad drafter. Buy Jozy was on EVERYBODY's radar. He was an international academy player in Florida, and Red Bulls had to trade up to get him ahead of other teams.

Every team in the league knew about him, no one else was smart enough to take a shot on him at 15.

His drafting is meticulous. But with the exception of RSL, which didn't take Frei when it had the chance, everybody's was meticulous, and very few teams have had their draft picks crap out.

And I'd also suggest being a great drafter isnt' even close to one-third of the skillset needed to be a good GM. It's about one-third of the skill set needed to be a great head scout.

jloome
09-30-2009, 11:24 AM
Just to address what Beach is saying...

Yes, Billy Martin came and went from the Ny Yankees many times...because they're the New York Yankees!

And yes NFL coaches have thick skins and peronality issues, but its the NFL!

You are comparing the top elite team/leagues in their sport with MLS and TFC - its not the same thing and not a fair comparison.

There are literally hundreds of jobs around the world that a coach can take that will be of a higher level of player, a higher salary for the coach, and more control of team matters.

People make snide remarks about teams in league two in england, but if you're a manager, you'll get noticed more there than in the MLS if your ambition is to climb the managerial rungs and get a chance with a top club in the championship or premiership.

Coaches will take the job here as a stepping stone to build their career - not as a end all, pinnacle of their career - if they think that they will be interfered with and not able to put their stamp on things - they won't come. Why leave a successful program (like Mariner) where your input in valued and you enjoy coming to work? Where you are defiently next in line to run that franchise if Nicol retires or gets a better job as youth coach for Raith Rovers? Leave a good secure situation for an uncertain situation?

No matter how you slice it, its 3 coaches in 3 years; It doesn't matter that noone has been 'fired'. That's terrible job security. Yes the fans are great, but that's 2 hours in a long work week - its the people you work with on a daily basis (players, staff, board, GM)that influences your decision on where to coach.

Unless they're sure that they will get total leeway - no big name coach will come to TFC. They want to put their stamp on things, do it their way - if they're unsure that they'll get that freedom, they'll either not come or leave half way through.

Frankly, if I was a big name assistant, I'd be looking around for a top NCAA program to run - thats the real pinnacle of soccer in North America. Good pay, 'easy' college chicks...

I'm not suggesting it's just impossible to get one, but you're right, this is why it's not as easy to get someone good as people think, unless they're given carte blanche on players. Does anyone really think Mo's going to give up player control?

Section 117
09-30-2009, 11:32 AM
I should be coach and Danny can be my number 2

Hitcho
09-30-2009, 11:32 AM
I think the posts about Mo asembling a wholly deficient team with some very good parts and having nothing in his bag other than good drafting skills are a bit unfair. Quite clearly, TFC's squad is not a finished article yet. But consider where we started from: no players and average to crap players to select from in the expansion draft. Then consider the obstacles facing Mo when trying to bring players to TFC: new team, no good players, plastic pitch, backwater league, and being in Canada and not even the US in a backwater league. No established MLS players that didn't have an obvious TO connection would have wanted to join us. Very few worthy players outside MLS would have been willing to join us unless they were looking for a retirement cheque, and we saw how they worked out. And to trade the squad up Mo had to ship out some pretty shite players and get what he could for them in terms fo trades for better players, draft picks and allocation.

Now consider where we are, less than theee years into the program: a squad that is stocked with great young talent, with great Canadian talent and has just been capped off by a DP in his prime who recently won MVP at Depor and is Canadian to boot. Grass is coming, perhaps imminently. Stadium expansion to some degree probably won't be far behind. I think that's an amazing achievment in the time Mo has had in light of the obstacles he has faced. He's taken a squad that was originally complete crap (with one or two notable exceptions) and managed to trade, wheel and sign his way to something that is actually pretty impressive but not quite rounded off yet. And let's not forget that the stupid MLS rules on player quotas hamper us more than they do any other MLS team and those rules seem to get tightened each year.

A lot of the anti-Mo brigade on these boards judge him as they would judge the GM of teams like NER. "They've done it why can't we". That's simply not a fair comparison because we're not an established MLS team, we have a plastic pitch and we don't offer the chance of a US green card. These have been major, major handicaps along the way.

Now consider how much is left to go: we need two or three players to leave us with a very tasty looking squad. A winger is key, the rest come down to debate (CB we have Serioux, Nana and Gomez. FB we have Wynne, Fellinga, Nana on either side and JB. Striker we have Barrett, Gerba and OBW. These may not be people's favourite or preferred players but they can all do a good job in MLS.) And we need to appoint a good head coach. Mo has only tried this once - JC was a popular choice and started well before he walked out. CC was then instated by default because no good coaches are typically available a few weeks into the season. Mo will presumably have been working on a new coach all season long, CC has just been filling in until the fof season when it's a hell of a lot easier to get a coach on board.

So to me, we've come a long, long way in a relatively short space of time. And we've done so against the odds. We need a couple more players to round off the squad and we need to persuade a decent coach that with the current squad, the imminent arrival of grass and our fan backing that BMO Field is a good place for them to come to. Those are both key steps but if Mo can finish those two things off, there won't be much, if anything, left to complain about that sits on Mo's shoulders.

As for a coach not wanting to come here because Mo "pulls the trigger" on player signings, the only official kind of word I have heard on this was from Carver, who openly said a few times that he identified the players he wanted, either with Mo (JC was alcking in MLS knowledge) or without him, and Mo then wored to bring them in. I have never heard JC or CC complain about having players foisted on them. JDG and De Ro may be an exception but would any coach of TFC really complain about having thsoe two put in the squad?

I mean seriously, does anyone have something substantive to back up this "Mo chooses the players the coach just has to work with them" theory? I'm not saying it isn't true, I am just saying I haven't heard anything that really supports it other than idle speculation.

olegunnar
09-30-2009, 11:33 AM
His drafting is meticulous. But with the exception of RSL, which didn't take Frei when it had the chance, everybody's was meticulous, and very few teams have had their draft picks crap out.



I'm not sure where the legend of Mo's drafting came from. I think he'd get a B- from an impartial observer.

Pat Phelan?
Julius James?
Andrew Boyens?

All picked in the 1st round.

How about Sam Cronin ahead of
Gonzalez
Wallace
Belser

All when we know our defense needed help.

My theory/opinion is that since people are so Toronto FC focused, they don't realize that other teams draft "well" too. (with the exception of Dallas that is)

Hitcho
09-30-2009, 11:39 AM
^ Well it depends how you determine "good drafting". Either you go for players in positions you need to fill and hope they develop well to fill the hole, or you draft the best playesr in the pot and either use them or trade them since they are worth more to fill the positions you have holes in. Mo seems to go for the best voerall players and then either uses them or trades them. Personally, I think that;s the best approach, but others may disagree. The problem si that there are very few CBs at drafting age who can come into the squad and play well from the off. So it's better in my book to select a better player and trader him for a CB in some way.

olegunnar
09-30-2009, 11:41 AM
^ Well it depends how you determine "good drafting". Either you go for players in positions you need to fill and hope they develop well to fill the hole, or you draft the best playesr in the pot and either use them or trade them since they are worth more to fill the positions you have holes in. Mo seems to go for the best voerall players and then either uses them or trades them. Personally, I think that;s the best approach, but others may disagree. The problem si that there are very few CBs at drafting age who can come into the squad and play well from the off. So it's better in my book to select a better player and trader him for a CB in some way.

You can go to wiki and find the draft lists, who picked who.
Basically the 1st round is the only round that matters....the top 8-10 all seem to be starters.
If you look at the other teams, they're picking well too.
It's not like Mo's pulling a Leeman for Gilmore on the rest of the league. The rest of the league is drafting good players too.

That's my point.
Mo's not a total failure when it comes to the draft, but he's not an all star. A B-

Oldtimer
09-30-2009, 11:43 AM
Hitcho, you have some good points, there.

ALL MLS squads are deficient, due to the roster restrictions. They just differ where the deficiencies are.

It is unfair to judge Mo about not having a quality CB. Lenarduzzi (who has no cap or roster restrictions at this point) says that it's extremely hard to find a good defender.

We know great strikers are hard to find, as well. Should Mo have saved the DP slot for a striker is a matter of debate.

Where Mo does not get a pass from me is the lack of quality coaching. Sure, Cummins is just a fill-in. But Mo is ultimately responsible for the Carver fiasco. He needs to bring in a good coach to get a good grade there. A good MLS coach can take the 4-5 good players plus the not-so-good players and mold them into something decent. That is the trick to MLS coaching.

olegunnar
09-30-2009, 11:51 AM
It is unfair to judge Mo about not having a quality CB. Lenarduzzi (who has no cap or roster restrictions at this point) says that it's extremely hard to find a good defender.



Omar Gonzalez was picked #3 in the draft this year...Mo decided not to pick him and picked Cronin instead.

Matt Besler was picked #8 in the draft this year...Mo decided not to pick him and picked Cronin and OBW

Both of those CBs have started every game for their teams. (LA and KC respectively)
Both would start for us.
Gonzalez will be the rookie of the year and will play in the playoffs this year.

But that's okay...Mo is the drafting king!

Seriously though...I think if people paid more attention to other teams, they'd gain a better perspective.

Hitcho
09-30-2009, 11:54 AM
Hitcho, you have some good points, there.

ALL MLS squads are deficient, due to the roster restrictions. They just differ where the deficiencies are.

It is unfair to judge Mo about not having a quality CB. Lenarduzzi (who has no cap or roster restrictions at this point) says that it's extremely hard to find a good defender.

We know great strikers are hard to find, as well. Should Mo have saved the DP slot for a striker is a matter of debate.

Where Mo does not get a pass from me is the lack of quality coaching. Sure, Cummins is just a fill-in. But Mo is ultimately responsible for the Carver fiasco. He needs to bring in a good coach to get a good grade there. A good MLS coach can take the 4-5 good players plus the not-so-good players and mold them into something decent. That is the trick to MLS coaching.

Totally agree re the need for a good coach being key in MLS. But I'm also not sure it's fair to call the Carver situation a fiasco that Mo is responsible for. Rumour has it that JC was 3rd choice because Mo couldn't get anyone better. Another example of the obstacles in Mo's way. But whatever, JC seemed like a good choice and a bit of a coup for us when he signed on. Then he walked out. Not really Mo's fault, I am sure he tried to convince JC to stay. JC did not blame Mo in any way for the walk out, he blamed the league and its rules,a nd he left on good terms with Mo as they were still in contact according to both of them.

So, we're back to Mo only havign had one stab at appointing a good head coach. He was hampered in his choices, made a decent stab at it but then got screwed over. CC he was then stuck with.

Which means this off-season Mo really needs to step up and bring in someone good, he's had plenty fo time to line it up and id candidates, and he can now point to JDG, a better squad, and hopefully grass as reasons we didn;t previously have for a godo coach to come here. Having said that, he won;t have been able to make contact with any eomplyed coaches during the season so the time advantage is reduced, the rgass thing is still up in the air and is probably a key factor, and we're still a Canadian team in a backwater US league.

To me, If Mo can pull off a Steve Nicol type appointment then he will have punched well above TFC's weight. but if he manages a decent MLS level coach then that's still an ok job in the circumstances. Trouble is, it will be viewed on here as a fuck up and he'll be pasted for it, unfairly in my opinion for the reasons above.

Hitcho
09-30-2009, 11:59 AM
ole - fair points, but gomzalez was still a bit of a punt at CB because he could have taken a while to adapt to pro level footie and at CB, that's a big risk to take. cronin was seen as an equally good player and prospect but less of a risk (that's my guess anyway).

I don't think it's just drafting alonie that got Mo his rep. It's his trading as well. he's made some killer trades for us and, so far, he has played the MLS rulebook like a fiddle in terms of roster restirctions, salary cap and allocation based trades. It's that coupled with his drafting that has got him a decent reputation.

But yeah, I agree, other teams also draft well. And let;s be honest, the bottm line is that if there are nothing but crap players in the draft then everyone will select crap players, and if there are 20 really good players in one year then it's l;ikely that all the first round picks will be great choices. That's true regardless of who is ir isn't a drafting "king".

Beach_Red
09-30-2009, 12:55 PM
A lot of the anti-Mo brigade on these boards judge him as they would judge the GM of teams like NER. "They've done it why can't we".




What exactly have they done? They missed the playoffs their first three out of four seasons (and again in their 6th) and they lost the championship game four times. We better be aiming for more success than that. Certainly we woudn't be happy if Mo got an extension with those results.

That's the only point I really meant to make. If the assistant coach from a team that's never won anything turns down a chance to become a head coach because he won't get to run the whole show, American fans won't get it.

The other guys mentioned, sure, I understand they'd have to work out their own arrangements, but they bring something to the table.

DOMIN8R
10-09-2009, 11:19 AM
Mariner tipped for assistant role

Plymouth Argyle, 16:34, October 9, 2009

Paul Mariner could be named as Paul Sturrock's assistant at Plymouth next week, if the latest reports are to be believed.


http://www.clubcall.com/plymouth-argyle/mariner-tipped-assistant-role-958447.html

He was my first pick, as the most likelly to be enticed to TFC.

maninb
10-09-2009, 11:47 AM
Mariner tipped for assistant role

Plymouth Argyle, 16:34, October 9, 2009

Paul Mariner could be named as Paul Sturrock's assistant at Plymouth next week, if the latest reports are to be believed.


http://www.clubcall.com/plymouth-argyle/mariner-tipped-assistant-role-958447.html

He was my first pick, as the most likelly to be enticed to TFC.

Is Mariner a local Plymouth boy? If so, he'll probably take the job....

arbogast
10-09-2009, 01:27 PM
Is Mariner a local Plymouth boy? If so, he'll probably take the job....


He played there.