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View Full Version : Chicago Fire vs. TFC Sept. 26th Post Game Thread



JDG
09-26-2009, 09:33 PM
A tie that feels like a loss.

billyfly
09-26-2009, 09:34 PM
Argue with me if you want but I have no confidence in the Coach or Paul Winsper.

Fushida
09-26-2009, 09:35 PM
Argue with me if you want but I have no confidence in the Coach or Paul Winsper.

+1 :facepalm:


Going defensive on 65th minute for no reason when we were on the front foot? Leaving DeRo on while half injured as he was becoming a liability up front? Subbing off Barrett who was by far one of the most lively and effective players for a fucking pylon in OBW? For playing Garcia in the first place who was single handedly responsible for both their goals?

You mention stupid football, who's fault do you think that is?

Oldtimer
09-26-2009, 09:35 PM
I have no problem with Winsper, but CC's tactical handling of this critical game was less than stellar.

Batman
09-26-2009, 09:35 PM
It's hard to think of Winsper being responsible...but I will admit this team looked worn out for the last 20 minutes.

billyfly
09-26-2009, 09:36 PM
It's hard to think of Winsper being responsible...but I will admit this team looked worn out for the last 20 minutes.


But its every single game!

Dirk Diggler
09-26-2009, 09:36 PM
Argue with me if you want but I have no confidence in the Coach or Paul Winsper.

There is no need to argue with you there. I've no faith in the majority of the personnel within the organization ... most notably Mo and the coaching staff that he has hired ... not to mention the majority of the roster as well.

T.O TILL I DIE
09-26-2009, 09:36 PM
A tie that feels like a loss.

i feel u right now man...:(:facepalm:

well hopefully DC loses tommorow so we have another chance for playoffs
BUT MUCH RESPECT TO THE TFC FANS MADE ME PROUD OUT THERE LOL!!

jloome
09-26-2009, 09:37 PM
I don't think Garcia's playing because the coach has any say in it. He's not a complete idiot; it reeks of Mo's ego, because Garcia is his boy from KC.

Tactically, he had to brign in OBW, but yeah, it shouldn't have been from Barrett.

Other than that, it was a tactically smart setup and for good chunks of the game it was working.

Then we went into the "last 20 minutes" defensive shell, where we play too deep, and that's always suicide.

I don't say Cummins isn't at all responsible, I just put a lot of this particular loss on the players and on us not having a proper leading centre half.

Oldtimer
09-26-2009, 09:37 PM
A tie that feels like a loss.

It is... the loss of the post-season.

Unless DC loses against San Jose, our post-season is done.

jloome
09-26-2009, 09:38 PM
Having said that, outside of a few key players, we need a complete shakeup, starting at the front office and heading down from there.

Shakes McQueen
09-26-2009, 09:38 PM
It's hard to think of Winsper being responsible...but I will admit this team looked worn out for the last 20 minutes.

They looked tired, like most players do when they have no sustained possession for most of the game.

After Barrett scored, we did nothing but kick the ball out of our half over and over like scared children - giving Chicago all the possession in the world, and ensuring that we would have to chase the ball over, and over, and over again.

- Scott

SoccMan
09-26-2009, 09:38 PM
Whisper,Winsper or whatever this fuck is mame is is paid to keep this guys fit,however, they seem to run out of energy in the last part of every game, who should we blame then Gerry Dobson maybe!

Stryker
09-26-2009, 09:38 PM
Cummins and Garcia are the bread in a shit sandwich. Brennen is the filler.

Yeoman
09-26-2009, 09:38 PM
honestly i thought it was one of our better performances this year, if not one of the best.
if garcia and gerba (not nearly as bad though) were working just as hard and not screwing up, we would have come away with a win there.
why did they sub barrett off?!? man that was one of this best games he's had with us

forza_tfc
09-26-2009, 09:38 PM
It's hard to think of Winsper being responsible...but I will admit this team looked worn out for the last 20 minutes.

So why do we run out of gas when the other team is charging? I think Winsper is tiring our guys out.

Fushida
09-26-2009, 09:39 PM
Winsper shouldn't be blamed... these players are playing in a system that demands fitness, but some have it and some don't. We got 3 box to box midfielders employed taking platoons at DM (for some reason), and that takes a lot of running back and forth. Because of deficiencies in the abilities of both Wynne and Brennan in tracking back after they push forward, they also have to cover for them on the back foot. Let's not forget the fact that Mr. Cummins doesn't like to sub off the tiring players.

Why we look so out of shape compared to other teams? The stupid system set up by the stupid ass clown of a coach. I'm sure if we played in a real tactical way, we'd look like just any other team in the MLS in terms of fitness.

Dirk Diggler
09-26-2009, 09:40 PM
Also, I sort of agree with the Winsper criticisms. I still don't understand why there was so much Winsper praises as the best fitness coach in the history of the game. People were massively over rating him in the past so its only fair that the other group of people get to question his competency now that his work does not seem to be as impressive as we were initially led to believe.

leafdolfan
09-26-2009, 09:40 PM
If TFC win the next three matches (not saying they will) what would need to happen in order for them to make the playoffs.

rocker
09-26-2009, 09:40 PM
they shoulda run out Gomez instead of Garcia. Garcia was making rookie mistakes, so might as well put Gomez in there and let him make the mistakes, and learn in the process.

billyfly
09-26-2009, 09:41 PM
I do agree that chasing the ball or al least not having possession can tire you out but I still see something about the player`s fitness I don`t like.

Fushida
09-26-2009, 09:41 PM
http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/MLS/East/TorontoFC.html

98.3% chance of playoffs should we win the next 3. Statistically speaking anyways :rolleyes:

TFC USA
09-26-2009, 09:42 PM
Fire Chris Cummins and cut Nick Garcia.

That's all that needs to be said.

And as a result of Cummins leaving, Mo should too.

jazzy
09-26-2009, 09:42 PM
Argue with me if you want but I have no confidence in the Coach or Paul Winsper.

I like to think I have a little knowledge of the game.....but watching these tactics makes me realize I know shit......because like every TO fan, we live with hope......every day......and I am as confused as shit......it seems logic is nonexistant in these games....my bad..........what is in the air here?.......do they take our devotion for granted?

billyfly
09-26-2009, 09:42 PM
Hey Fushida! That`s my website to quote! :)

forza_tfc
09-26-2009, 09:42 PM
We need a coach with a proven track record and a pair of balls. Cummins has neither.

TFCtoMUFC
09-26-2009, 09:43 PM
Having said that, outside of a few key players, we need a complete shakeup, starting at the front office and heading down from there.

Keep:

Frei
Attakora
Gomez
Cronin
DeRo
JDG
Sanyang
OBW
Gerba
Fellinga

do whatever with the rest of them.

Detroit_TFC
09-26-2009, 09:44 PM
Winsper shouldn't be blamed... these players are playing in a system that demands fitness, but some have it and some don't. We got 3 box to box midfielders employed taking platoons at DM (for some reason), and that takes a lot of running back and forth. Because of deficiencies in the abilities of both Wynne and Brennan in tracking back after they push forward, they also have to cover for them on the back foot. Let's not forget the fact that Mr. Cummins doesn't like to sub off the tiring players.

Why we look so out of shape compared to other teams? The stupid system set up by the stupid ass clown of a coach. I'm sure if we played in a real tactical way, we'd look like just any other team in the MLS in terms of fitness.

I think this nails it. His program did wonders for us in past, but the on-field program just isn't meshing well with it. In any case it's probably moot because Cummins is likely gone after October and I think likely Winsper too.

cmonyoureds
09-26-2009, 09:44 PM
ummmm i didn't see the game but has hell frozen over? people on hear bitching Barrett was subbed off? he was the best player? wow, a sure sign the apocalypse is pending. i can't wait to watch the pvr tonight!

oh and this obviously means the playoffs are pretty much gone.

Cambridge_Red
09-26-2009, 09:44 PM
Fire Chris Cummins and cut Nick Garcia.

That's all that needs to be said.

And as a result of Cummins leaving, Mo should too.

Yes someone sees the light

SoccMan
09-26-2009, 09:44 PM
TFC will not win the next three games so there is no need to figure out what will happen if. What we need to worry about is the fact that Mo looks for certain to be getting a contract extension and we need to figure out what will happen to this team in the next few years with Mo at the helm.

Beach_Red
09-26-2009, 09:44 PM
I don't think Garcia's playing because the coach has any say in it. He's not a complete idiot; it reeks of Mo's ego, because Garcia is his boy from KC.

Tactically, he had to brign in OBW, but yeah, it shouldn't have been from Barrett.

Other than that, it was a tactically smart setup and for good chunks of the game it was working.

Then we went into the "last 20 minutes" defensive shell, where we play too deep, and that's always suicide.

I don't say Cummins isn't at all responsible, I just put a lot of this particular loss on the players and on us not having a proper leading centre half.

But you don't know that at all. Carver never once complained about interference and niether has Cummins. If you really want to be anti-Mo then the attitude is that he tells the coach nothing about who to play so he can blame him for everything that goes wrong. But that's just speculation, too, because I can't smell them from where I am ;).

What really struck me this game was how much in common TFC has with Chicago - injuries, (Chicago probably affected even more) players playing out of their natural positions, rookies or young guys and older players - McBride is 37 - almost every complaint I read on here about TFC was mentioned by the Chicago annuncers about the Fire tonight.

Except the Chicago coach has been in some coaching capacity with the team for years.

iansmcl
09-26-2009, 09:44 PM
Bring back the old number 4! Please!

Nerepis
09-26-2009, 09:46 PM
I'm with you man, the big problem was Garcia. An own goal, not closing off mcBride on his goal and the whole game playing 3 to 5 yards of the rest of the back line because of a lack of pace and/or fitness. I was pretty happy with the rest of the team. But fitness at the end of the game, as always with us, was a problem.


honestly i thought it was one of our better performances this year, if not one of the best.
if garcia and gerba (not nearly as bad though) were working just as hard and not screwing up, we would have come away with a win there.
why did they sub barrett off?!? man that was one of this best games he's had with us

forza_tfc
09-26-2009, 09:46 PM
Anyone else think the Robinson sub was a dumb-ass move? The guy was barely f'ing jogging when JDG wanted to charge. Has Robbo even completed a pass this season?

Fushida
09-26-2009, 09:46 PM
Hey Fushida! That`s my website to quote! :)

haha, I think I got it from you :D

bignickel
09-26-2009, 09:47 PM
I do agree that chasing the ball or al least not having possession can tire you out but I still see something about the player`s fitness I don`t like.

i'm with you, i mean our players run out of gas in games where we have had the majority of the possesion, i mean fuck, it's like we play a fast paced game running in with speed on the flanks.
winsper has to go.

ArmenJBX
09-26-2009, 09:47 PM
I think we should blame the guy who maintains the kits. Seriously, the only reason we're not in the playoffs right now is because Ali Gerba's shorts smell funny. The team avoids Ali Gerba because when the send the ball in for an assist, the smell is overwhelming and the crosser's aim is fogged.

I think that the reason we're not in a playoff berth this second is because the guy who keeps the kit's clean hasn't done his job. If he could only get Ali Gerba's shorts to smell like Tide again, then he's done his job. BUT, this guy has single handedly ruined this season.

/Sarcasm.

Really people? We're blaming Winsper? This team CANNOT PLAY SOCCER. The passes are shit, the crosses are shit, the goals are shit. I've never seen a team where Nick Garcia passes to Nana Attokora...and Attakora passes to Nick Garcia, and, get this...Nick Garcia passes to...NANA ATTAKORA! :O BRILLIANT RIGHT? This team doesn't understand how to play this game. We keep changing the squad, putting blame on people, getting rid of them, and that's why we have shit chemistry.

So, I propose we do the rational thing here. Let's actually build a squad where at least 11 players will be a part of the next season. (Take a look right now...how many players were here from last season), we gain chemistry, learn how to play the fucking sport, and, if all else fails...

Fire the Kit Cleaner.

Shakes McQueen
09-26-2009, 09:47 PM
Fire Chris Cummins and cut Nick Garcia.

That's all that needs to be said.

And as a result of Cummins leaving, Mo should too.

This game should be the final straw as far as whether to get rid of Cummins and Garcia.

Like I said - my opinion on Mo's future depends on what he does with our defense in the off-season, and what coach he brings in. If it looks like another turd sandwich on the opening stages of next season, then I support firing him.

If he brings in another unimpressive coach in the off-season, then I support firing him. If he keeps Cummins as coach, I support firing him. If he does nothing meaningful with our backline, I support firing him.

Mo, Cummins et al. are on almost nonexistently thin ice.

- Scott

Beach_Red
09-26-2009, 09:48 PM
Does it make any difference that RSL lost and KC only got one point?

egoodwin
09-26-2009, 09:49 PM
season's done... hold on to Garcia till the expansion draft, and hope Philly takes him

if they don't then we ship him out

jazzy
09-26-2009, 09:49 PM
If we don't play all the young guys now and let JDG be the boss then I'm actually leaving at half time next game......btw Guevara wants to leave, thats the way I see his effort...to LA?

wzhxvy
09-26-2009, 09:49 PM
Winsper is an overhyped gym teacher..I never thought much of the hype...if he was that good, he would be in England...send him back and get a nameless, faceless guy who is focused on his job. With all that being said, the lack of fitness, as someone said, is because they didnt control the ball possession....

I thought Gerba, Dero, Barrett and Wynne to a lesser extent played well. Frei and Garcia both had horrific games and JDG looked like an MLS player today. Guevara as usual was no where...is there a Honduras game coming up ? He must be coasting for that. Cronan did not have a good game.

I think this game is on CC personally. Why was Garcia starting ??? Just flick the ball in his direction and he will get beat in the air...GARCIAMOTHERFINGTEED

I hope JDG gets a full off season and preseason to readjust.

Beach_Red
09-26-2009, 09:49 PM
This game should be the final straw as far as whether to get rid of Cummins and Garcia.

Like I said - my opinion on Mo's future depends on what he does with our defense in the off-season, and what coach he brings in. If it looks like another turd sandwich on the opening stages of next season, then I support firing him.

If he brings in another unimpressive coach in the off-season, then I support firing him. If he keeps Cummins as coach, I support firing him. If he does nothing meaningful with our backline, I support firing him.

Mo, Cummins et al. are on almost nonexistently thin ice.

- Scott

I would hope that negotiations with a proper coach are already going on.

AdamZ
09-26-2009, 09:50 PM
we can still make it I imagine if we win the next three, but I don't want us to. I want Cummins fucking gone. There is no arguing the absolute fact that he is a joke of a tactician.

forza_tfc
09-26-2009, 09:50 PM
I swear it's like watching a house league play. If players can't last 90mins by this part of the season they shouldn't be playing pro footy.

Shakes McQueen
09-26-2009, 09:51 PM
I don't think Garcia's playing because the coach has any say in it. He's not a complete idiot; it reeks of Mo's ego, because Garcia is his boy from KC.

If you have evidence to this effect, then fine. But I really suspect it has more to do with Cummins wanting an "experienced, veteran presence" in the backline, and with an injured Serioux, Garcia is all that's left.

Garcia also hasn't started every game he's been available for.

Mo signed all of these players, so if it's about ego, it would make sense that he would want whoever will create the best results. I DO think his knowing Garcia probably had something to do with him coming to our team in the first place, though. And Mo deserves a lot of stick for that horrible signing.

- Scott

Dirk Diggler
09-26-2009, 09:54 PM
This game should be the final straw as far as whether to get rid of Cummins and Garcia.

Like I said - my opinion on Mo's future depends on what he does with our defense in the off-season, and what coach he brings in. If it looks like another turd sandwich on the opening stages of next season, then I support firing him.

If he brings in another unimpressive coach in the off-season, then I support firing him. If he keeps Cummins as coach, I support firing him. If he does nothing meaningful with our backline, I support firing him.

Mo, Cummins et al. are on almost nonexistently thin ice.

- Scott

Cummins ... yes. With all the talk of contract extensions and what not (based on his financial performance obviously), I don't see Mo being fired. Maybe some other figure head will be brought in (Head of Player Personnel or whatever) to take the heat of Mo next season.

Fushida
09-26-2009, 09:54 PM
If you have evidence to this effect, then fine. But I really suspect it has more to do with Cummins wanting an "experienced, veteran presence" in the backline, and with an injured Serioux, Garcia is all that's left.

Garcia also hasn't started every game he's been available for.

Mo signed all of these players, so if it's about ego, it would make sense that he would want whoever will create the best results. I DO think his knowing Garcia probably had something to do with him coming to our team in the first place, though. And Mo deserves a lot of stick for that horrible signing.

- Scott

I hate Garcia as much - if not more - than the next guy, but I don't think Mo deserves nearly as much blame as jloome is hurling. His scenario is... possible, but no one knows for sure. And at the time of the signing, we pretty much got him for a pick right? So... it was a logical signing considering who we got in the back at the time. Its Cummins' fault that he's playing... hands down. That's our biggest problem right now. I'd have no problem with giving CC his papers tomorrow and letting ANYONE else take over the squad... Daso, Danny, Winsper??! ANYONE :facepalm:

TFC USA
09-26-2009, 09:56 PM
This management is making me hate England.

The first two years it was blindly pick players who used to play in Europe and assume it would work. Now it's year 3 and it's sign whomever the fuck we want and have it fail.


Mo has been in the system (MLS) forever so he should fucking know the rules and what he can do. I'm done.

TFC Cityboy
09-26-2009, 09:57 PM
-If Winsper is the fitness guru he is purported to be, why did Newcastle have the busiest treatment table every season?
-bringing Gerba off and keeping Dero as lone striker allowed CHI to push more forward and we all know what happens when we try and defend a 1 goal lead on the road.
-Robbo patently not fit and in diabolical form pre injury
-garcia- the worst defenderd I have seen at this club since the infamous Reda/ Braz combo
-frei made a huge error on the 2nd goal but where the fuck were the CBs?

One positive tonight- step forward Chad Barrett. I give him shit week in week out for his finishing but what a work rate....so why the fuck bring him off, Cummins you muppet?

ArmenJBX
09-26-2009, 09:57 PM
Mo doesn't deserve the blame on Garcia entirely. He used to be my favorite player before TFC even existed (in this league though, not the world obv.)

But, he's definitely not the same defender I used to watch. He's old and slow now.

Garcia 3 years ago would have been cool. Not now though.

Chevy
09-26-2009, 09:58 PM
Keep:

Frei
Attakora
Gomez
Cronin
DeRo
JDG
Sanyang
OBW
Gerba
Fellinga

do whatever with the rest of them.

This is 100% bang on.

TFC Cityboy
09-26-2009, 09:58 PM
Gomez is a much better option than garcia. In fact,anyone who stands on the south stand is a better option...even after a few bevvies

Beach_Red
09-26-2009, 09:59 PM
This is 100% bang on.

Fellinga? Really? Based on what?

Otherwise, yeah, that's a solid MLS line-up.

T.O TILL I DIE
09-26-2009, 09:59 PM
Who Here Actually Feels Bad For Garcia Cuz Hes So Shit And Hes Just Embarresing Himself!!?

TFC USA
09-26-2009, 10:01 PM
Garcia ended our season.

Fuck him.

TFC Cityboy
09-26-2009, 10:01 PM
^^I'll pay his cab fare to Pearson

TFC Cityboy
09-26-2009, 10:02 PM
I was hoping garcia would pick up a yellow tonight to rule him out next match....too bad.

THA BUTCHA
09-26-2009, 10:02 PM
Can we Call Canada Customs and get Garcia on a terrorist watch list?

Maybe call in an anonymous tip to C.I.S.
That would be awesome...

Dirk Diggler
09-26-2009, 10:02 PM
Who Here Actually Feels Bad For Garcia Cuz Hes So Shit And Hes Just Embarresing Himself!!?

I do. The entire team is not good enough for the playoffs but after tonight's performance he is going to feel as if he is the only one responsible for the team's failure.

Oldtimer
09-26-2009, 10:02 PM
Garcia ended our season.

Fuck him.

Garcia has now replaced this guy as most disliked:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Cunnytfc.jpg

... and for pretty much the same reason: costing TFC in a critical match.

Nerepis
09-26-2009, 10:03 PM
The first high ball to him in the box, he let it bounce and then I cringed. It's gong to be a long game I thought...

iansmcl
09-26-2009, 10:04 PM
I was hoping garcia would pick up a yellow tonight to rule him out next match....too bad.

I was hoping he'd pick up a pink slip to rule him out permanently.

Oldtimer
09-26-2009, 10:05 PM
Now it's just the painful wait until we are mathematically eliminated.

Macksam
09-26-2009, 10:06 PM
Anyone else think the Robinson sub was a dumb-ass move? The guy was barely f'ing jogging when JDG wanted to charge. Has Robbo even completed a pass this season?
Yeah, we should've left Gerba on. Atleast we wouldn't have bunkered than. When we took our lone striker off with no replacement, it basically told Chicago to come at us full charge. So stupid. Cummins is stupid.

TFC07
09-26-2009, 10:08 PM
I swear it's like watching a house league play. If players can't last 90mins by this part of the season they shouldn't be playing pro footy.



This management is making me hate England.



Agreed. lol

Anyway, this team got some serious issues that needs to be dealt with in off-season. Hopefully MLSE comes to their senses (like they did with Dichio situation) and clean house and start over again. We got too many bums who shouldn't be playing/coaching/managing a professional soccer team. I can't believe part of my money I spend on TFC games, jerseys etc... goes to these bums. :facepalm:

TFC USA
09-26-2009, 10:08 PM
Wanna bet as soon as we dump Garcia he'll score 10 goals (unheard of for a defender) for his own team and actually defend well to the point of winning a place in the MLS All-Star Lineup?


Nearly every player that has left us has done well elsewhere. Which tells you it's our system that needs immediate changes.

Macksam
09-26-2009, 10:08 PM
I think we should blame the guy who maintains the kits. Seriously, the only reason we're not in the playoffs right now is because Ali Gerba's shorts smell funny. The team avoids Ali Gerba because when the send the ball in for an assist, the smell is overwhelming and the crosser's aim is fogged.

I think that the reason we're not in a playoff berth this second is because the guy who keeps the kit's clean hasn't done his job. If he could only get Ali Gerba's shorts to smell like Tide again, then he's done his job. BUT, this guy has single handedly ruined this season.

/Sarcasm.

Really people? We're blaming Winsper? This team CANNOT PLAY SOCCER. The passes are shit, the crosses are shit, the goals are shit. I've never seen a team where Nick Garcia passes to Nana Attokora...and Attakora passes to Nick Garcia, and, get this...Nick Garcia passes to...NANA ATTAKORA! :O BRILLIANT RIGHT? This team doesn't understand how to play this game. We keep changing the squad, putting blame on people, getting rid of them, and that's why we have shit chemistry.

So, I propose we do the rational thing here. Let's actually build a squad where at least 11 players will be a part of the next season. (Take a look right now...how many players were here from last season), we gain chemistry, learn how to play the fucking sport, and, if all else fails...

Fire the Kit Cleaner.
You're being quite pretentious. Apart from the last half hour after Barret's goal, TFC were playing argubly their best game.

Redpunkfiddle
09-26-2009, 10:09 PM
Garcia has now replaced this guy as most disliked:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Cunnytfc.jpg

... and for pretty much the same reason: costing TFC in a critical match.

I don't know...... There are legends that are hard to match.

T.O TILL I DIE
09-26-2009, 10:11 PM
Wanna bet as soon as we dump Garcia he'll score 10 goals (unheard of for a defender) for his own team and actually defend well to the point of winning a place in the MLS All-Star Lineup?


Nearly every player that has left us has done well elsewhere. Which tells you it's our system that needs immediate changes.

AGREED SADLY I AGREE:facepalm:

Chevy
09-26-2009, 10:12 PM
I don't know...... There are legends that are hard to match.

Cunny sucked. At least Garcia can score. :facepalm:

ArmenJBX
09-26-2009, 10:12 PM
You clearly have no idea what your talking about. Apart from the last half hour after Barret's goal, TFC were playing argubly their best game.

We were in defensive mode with 30 minutes left and only one goal up. I don't know about you, but for me, that's suicide. We should be attacking, putting pressure on the other team and going up 3-1

But hey, what do I know right? That's just what EVERY EUROPEAN TEAM IN THE WORLD does...

I guess I have no idea...

twistedchinaman
09-26-2009, 10:13 PM
Yes someone sees the light

You'd be surprised at the size of the Go Away Mo camp.

Beach_Red
09-26-2009, 10:13 PM
We were in defensive mode with 30 minutes left and only one goal up. I don't know about you, but for me, that's suicide.

But hey, what do I know right? It's just what EVERY EUROPEAN TEAM IN THE WORLD does...

I guess I have no idea...


And it's worked so well for us every other time we've done it....

WHITEY
09-26-2009, 10:15 PM
We were in defensive mode with 30 minutes left and only one goal up. I don't know about you, but for me, that's suicide. We should be attacking, putting pressure on the other team and going up 3-1

But hey, what do I know right? That's just what EVERY EUROPEAN TEAM IN THE WORLD does...

I guess I have no idea...

Don't sweat it Jimmy, we're all experts around here lol.

ArmenJBX
09-26-2009, 10:15 PM
Well, there's the underlying problem. We can't play soccer. If we could, we would be able to put pressure and go 3-1 up. See how that worked?

In other news...

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/4279/dsgsdgsdgsd.png

iansmcl
09-26-2009, 10:16 PM
Don't forget half the team was injuring themselves around the hour mark... so it wasn't a total bunker down. It was more of a bunker-because-we-can't-move down.

TFC USA
09-26-2009, 10:16 PM
Definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


Therefore this team needs to check into Belleview at season's end after the Red Bulls game.

billyfly
09-26-2009, 10:18 PM
The first high ball to him in the box, he let it bounce and then I cringed. It's gong to be a long game I thought...

Never let the ball hit the ground. One of the rules of the game.

T.O TILL I DIE
09-26-2009, 10:19 PM
Well, there's the underlying problem. We can't play soccer. If we could, we would be able to put pressure and go 3-1 up. See how that worked?

In other news...

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/4279/dsgsdgsdgsd.png

LLLLMMMMMFFFFFAAAAOOOOOOOOOO:scarf:THAT WAS THE JOKE OF THE DAYY!

Nerepis
09-26-2009, 10:20 PM
Definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


Therefore this team needs to check into Belleview at season's end after the Red Bulls game.

LOL, you could say the same thing about us... watching year after year, hoping we'll make the play offs. I see electro-shock in my near future.

ballerz
09-26-2009, 10:21 PM
Garcia vs. Casey = Fail
Garcia vs. Landycakes = Fail
Garcia vs. McBride = Fail

Chris Cummins - can you see the trend?

ballerz
09-26-2009, 10:22 PM
Bring back the old number 4! Please!

Which Marco do you want?

dag
09-26-2009, 10:23 PM
Truly, I'm a sucker. Earlier this week I renewed my dark gray (109) season ticket for 2010. ML$E really got me.

Macksam
09-26-2009, 10:25 PM
We were in defensive mode with 30 minutes left and only one goal up. I don't know about you, but for me, that's suicide. We should be attacking, putting pressure on the other team and going up 3-1

But hey, what do I know right? That's just what EVERY EUROPEAN TEAM IN THE WORLD does...

I guess I have no idea...
Yeah, and I think Cummins is to blame for that. Putting on Robbo was a dumb ass move on his part.

THA BUTCHA
09-26-2009, 10:26 PM
You know what's gonna be really Funny

Watching Jim Brennan (OUR CAPTAIN) Trying to keep a straight face telling reporters that TFC is going to do everything they can to win the final 3 games of the season and that the playoffs are still within reach.

I just checked...

TFC has only won 3 games in the last 3 months.

wow

THA BUTCHA
09-26-2009, 10:28 PM
hey I'm Serious..

$100 to the man that calls 222-Tips and accuses Nick Garcia of being a suspected Terrorist.

iansmcl
09-26-2009, 10:31 PM
Which Marco do you want?

Velez.

Bars92
09-26-2009, 10:34 PM
Forest said it straight up Garcia has no pace. He looks like some old fella playing indoor beer league.

andyc
09-26-2009, 10:34 PM
I have 2 big issues with tonight and both revolve around the use (or lack of) substitutions by Cummins... (I'll leave the Garcia issue alone since it's already been covered)

Firstly we finished the game with a bunch of tired and injured players while still having a substitute available. I know the bench is thin but how can we leave subs unused when players are dead on the field?

Secondly, subbing our one striker to bring in our third DM?? WTF??

For the hell of it I will throw in taking off Barret too since that seemed crazy. We needed a win and seemed to play for a draw despite the fact that we've proven to be unable to shut other teams down in the last 15 mins...

Time for an experienced coach that will stand up to Mo...

wzhxvy
09-26-2009, 10:36 PM
Oh btw....not to mention that we were one white bandana away from losing this game...I dont want to hear about how we played well...its not how you start, its how you finish !!!!!!

andyc
09-26-2009, 10:37 PM
Oh btw....not to mention that we were one white bandana away from losing this game...I dont want to hear about how we played well...its not how you start, its how you finish !!!!!!

Seconds after Dobson declared a draw.. That guy drives me crazy!

WHITEY
09-26-2009, 10:40 PM
Oh btw....not to mention that we were one white bandana away from losing this game...I dont want to hear about how we played well...its not how you start, its how you finish !!!!!!

BINGO my friend and we can't finish on the road period. Teams are not worried when they are down a goal to us because they know our SOP is to give up late goals.

Bars92
09-26-2009, 10:44 PM
I think we'll win the next three games but it could be too little too late.

UltraSuperMegaMo
09-26-2009, 10:45 PM
Forest was getting a little prickly. Called out Garcia and kind of implied that Brennan should retire.

WHITEY
09-26-2009, 10:48 PM
Forest was getting a little prickly. Called out Garcia and kind of implied that Brennan should retire.

Good for him!

Crazy Canuck
09-26-2009, 10:50 PM
I don't think Garcia's playing because the coach has any say in it. He's not a complete idiot; it reeks of Mo's ego, because Garcia is his boy from KC.

Tactically, he had to brign in OBW, but yeah, it shouldn't have been from Barrett.

Other than that, it was a tactically smart setup and for good chunks of the game it was working.

Then we went into the "last 20 minutes" defensive shell, where we play too deep, and that's always suicide.

I don't say Cummins isn't at all responsible, I just put a lot of this particular loss on the players and on us not having a proper leading centre half.

Nick Garcia OUT NOW !!!!!!!!!!!

wzhxvy
09-26-2009, 10:52 PM
I think Forrest has heard some of the feedback about being Anti- TFC and a Vancouver lover...lately he has been pretty careful to be more balanced and supportive of TFC (after all thats how he makes his living right now). At the end of the game tonight, I think he was justified in his comments, they were fair.

There are some rumblings about different players so I would not be surprised if Brennan decides to call it quits at the end of the year....

WHITEY
09-26-2009, 10:52 PM
Nick Garcia OUT NOW !!!!!!!!!!!

NOW? He should never have been in, ever!

Oblio2
09-26-2009, 11:16 PM
Garcia was shit, even without the OG but saying that, so many others were MIA.
Frie was to blame for the second goal...he came then stopped. Dude, charge out or dont....He should have come out like a steam train, punched the ball and McBride.

JDG was invisible.,..aagain. New or not...his passing play is shit. Too many lazy balls, missed passes, sideways plays and hospital balls. He is not a DP...by any stretch.
Too many others to mention but, why the fuck were we so tired?
Why is Ali Gerba so slow?
Why was DeRo left on?

Manutd #1
09-26-2009, 11:30 PM
Garcia was shit, even without the OG but saying that, so many others were MIA.
Frie was to blame for the second goal...he came then stopped. Dude, charge out or dont....He should have come out like a steam train, punched the ball and McBride.

JDG was invisible.,..aagain. New or not...his passing play is shit. Too many lazy balls, missed passes, sideways plays and hospital balls. He is not a DP...by any stretch.
Too many others to mention but, why the fuck were we so tired?
Why is Ali Gerba so slow?
Why was DeRo left on?

I thought JDG played well he has noone to pass to, he played very well in our end
as for Gerba we would not have got the second goal if it weren't for him he sent dero a great ball.

Oblio2
09-26-2009, 11:32 PM
I watched JDG all game. He is crap.
As for Gerba...All I said was, he's slow.

Hooligan69
09-26-2009, 11:35 PM
Just another night at the office for Toronto FC. Next.

WHITEY
09-26-2009, 11:36 PM
I watched JDG all game. He is crap.
As for Gerba...All I said was, he's slow.

Jury is still out on JDG for me, as for Gerba I want to know why he's always falling when nobody touches him.

Bars92
09-26-2009, 11:37 PM
JDG is a great wee player. He's strong on the ball, lets give him a few more game eh?

flambe
09-26-2009, 11:50 PM
JDG was invisible.,..aagain. New or not...his passing play is shit. Too many lazy balls, missed passes, sideways plays and hospital balls. He is not a DP...by any stretch.

:picard:

Really, from what I saw he held up the game, made some good passes, unfortunatley too good for the majority of TFC to realise what he is doing. Not to mention this is his 2nd game with us. Jesus.

As for the 2nd goal incident, I wouldn't be surprised if Garcia called the ball on Frei, hence his decision to stop half way through running out.

andyc
09-26-2009, 11:56 PM
JDG showed well in the first half and had a whole bunch of good touches on the ball. He seemed to be out of steam in the second half.. That should improve with time - if we had any....

Toronto_Bhoy
09-26-2009, 11:56 PM
Mo has never addressed having a "commander" at the back...an outright centre back!

He again has "bamboozled" the masses with his DP signing (who is a quality player but nowhere near the value that TFC has placed on him) and has ignored the pressing issue...FROM DAY ONE: a goal scorer and a centre back!

Scoring goals tonight wasn't the problem...keeping them out was!

Mo must go!

bgnewf
09-26-2009, 11:58 PM
Now we come down to the "banana peel game against the Mormons.



I don't think I have ever been more disappointed a a TFC fan when that Garcia own goal went in. And that is saying something!

We had three points away boys and we pissed it away. Story of our club.

egoodwin
09-27-2009, 12:08 AM
Mo has never addressed having a "commander" at the back...an outright centre back!

He again has "bamboozled" the masses with his DP signing (who is a quality player but nowhere near the value that TFC has placed on him) and has ignored the pressing issue...FROM DAY ONE: a goal scorer and a centre back!

Scoring goals tonight wasn't the problem...keeping them out was!

Mo must go!
don't forget the wingers

TFCUNITED
09-27-2009, 12:10 AM
Garcia was shit, even without the OG but saying that, so many others were MIA.
Frie was to blame for the second goal...he came then stopped. Dude, charge out or dont....He should have come out like a steam train, punched the ball and McBride.

JDG was invisible.,..aagain. New or not...his passing play is shit. Too many lazy balls, missed passes, sideways plays and hospital balls. He is not a DP...by any stretch.
Too many others to mention but, why the fuck were we so tired?
Why is Ali Gerba so slow?
Why was DeRo left on?

:rolleyes:

He's not a flashy player like Beckham and he's not a disaster like Garcia so you won't be hearing the commentators say his name every two seconds. He's a player who controls the ball and passes it on to someone else to create a play. He's not going to try and get by several players and try to score like Dero does. I was watching the game on channel surfing and the commentators even said that he plays a 2-3 touch football and that he has very good control. I remember one play where he passed the ball (I believe it was to Wynne) and I saw JDG pointing in the direction of another TFC player for Wynne to pass the ball to. All because he does not have the ball at his feet, it doesn't mean he's standing around with his thumb up his ass.

dow117
09-27-2009, 12:14 AM
Their tying goal really exposed our tactics. The D should have been outside the box so a loft ball could have been handled by the GK. Frei was suspect tonight with few mis handles and no domination of the box... losing the season on this game is on the shoulders of CC. Why bring on a DM when you need a win and leave tired players on when u have a sub option. Garcia played so deep coz he was tired and has no pace ....Very dissapointed in the own goal ..equal blame on Garcia nd Frei...

AL-MO
09-27-2009, 12:15 AM
I watched JDG all game. He is crap.
As for Gerba...All I said was, he's slow.

I don't know about you, but he seemed to be one of the only players moving and providing an option when he didn't have the ball.

Kaz
09-27-2009, 12:20 AM
JDG was a major reason why Chicago didn't score two or three time, he kept the ball out of our defensive third much better then any player we've had in that position.

Our Attack isn't a huge issue right now, no where as bad as our back line. We still have the 4th highest number of goals conceded in the league (NY, SJ, and Dallas) but we are in the center of the back of goals scored.

Garcia and Wynne are directly responsible for the lose of 7 points this year. Both need to go.

We need to either get quailty Defenders to keep playing 4 on the back line or 1 quality center back and play with two DM and 3 defenders. Which we have the depth to play.

The top item that was evident in this game is Cummins doesn't have the tactical skill to stay at this level.. heck isn't Carver basically looking to coach league 2? It's time for a strong coaching staff.

Tonight was simply a issue of poor tactical coaching and poor defenders.

UltraSuperMegaMo
09-27-2009, 12:27 AM
Sorry if this was discussed above, I've dipped in and out of the thread. Does anyone know why Vitti did not travel with the team? I don't recall seeing him on the injury report.

Shway
09-27-2009, 12:34 AM
CUMMINS IS A JOKE!
end of story, doesnt know how to play to WIN,
hes playing in the wind!

Shway
09-27-2009, 12:44 AM
Garcia that own goal, was a joke
but the second goal, was Frei's fault,
too many times i have seen he expects way to much out of his defenders
where a ball is droppin in the 6 yard box.

McBrides goal he was comming out, and then stoppped....
Frei gets save of the week, but doesn't get the save of the game

Shakes McQueen
09-27-2009, 12:52 AM
I don't know about you, but he seemed to be one of the only players moving and providing an option when he didn't have the ball.

Unfortunately I think this is a popular misconception we are going to be fighting a lot next season - people saying JDG sucks after every poor draw or loss, because his role isn't nearly as flashy as Becks or GBS.

JDG was one of the reasons Chicago largely avoided the top of our 18yd box for large portions of the game, and instead focused on the wings, where we are weaker. He was the starting point for a lot of promising attacks, that fell apart because of the lesser talent around him.

And it was the guy's second game with the team, in a vastly inferior, vastly different league. It's going to take a little while. I expect we won't see the full impact he has, until next season. Julian need's a full off-season with the club.

- Scott

VPjr
09-27-2009, 12:54 AM
Honestly, I can't believe that NO ONE has openly criticized Wynne for his piss poor defending on the cross that set up the 2nd goal.

You could see JDG urging Marvell to close Justin Mapp down. Instead, Wynne (supposedly the fastest man in MLS) gives him 3-4 yards of space so he can leisurely look up, see an open man just outside the 6 and deposit a lovely cross onto McBride's head.

To his credit, Forrest brought it up. That is a HUGE error, the kind of huge defensive error Wynne is consistently guilty of making.

Just a few minutes earlier, Wynne was a brain cramp away from possibly setting up or scoring the 3-1 goal that would have salvaged the season after a neat little pull back inside the 18 allowed him to cut to the net where, as usual, he hesitated and had his time and space taken from him. Had he done the same to Justin Mapp, maybe TFC wins 2-1 and their playoff chances still exist

Razor
09-27-2009, 12:59 AM
Let's be honest....half this team is shit and CC needs to go NOW!!

We have so much potential but we have a few fuckwads holding us back. Garcia. Brennan...I could go on.

We will not make the playoffs. I would be surprised if we even win 1 more game.

It's almost laughable how bad this team is.

Shakes McQueen
09-27-2009, 01:03 AM
Honestly, I can't believe that NO ONE has openly criticized Wynne for his piss poor defending on the cross that set up the 2nd goal.

You could see JDG urging Marvell to close Justin Mapp down. Instead, Wynne (supposedly the fastest man in MLS) gives him 3-4 yards of space so he can leisurely look up, see an open man just outside the 6 and deposit a lovely cross onto McBride's head.

To his credit, Forrest brought it up. That is a HUGE error, the kind of huge defensive error Wynne is consistently guilty of making.

Just a few minutes earlier, Wynne was a brain cramp away from possibly setting up or scoring the 3-1 goal that would have salvaged the season after a neat little pull back inside the 18 allowed him to cut to the net where, as usual, he hesitated and had his time and space taken from him. Had he done the same to Justin Mapp, maybe TFC wins 2-1 and their playoff chances still exist

You're right. Wynne should have closed down on that cross. And it's a mistake Attakora probably wouldn't have made as a RB.

I think Wynne has shown he doesn't belong as an MLS starting RB. It amazes me that we were actually worried about him getting snapped up by a European side a few months ago - he has regressed horribly.

- Scott

Keegan
09-27-2009, 01:04 AM
I watched JDG all game. He is crap.
As for Gerba...All I said was, he's slow.


Sorry but that is a :picard:

Anyone who has watched JDG knows he isn't crap even after an off game. The guy is a proven la liga STAR.

Brooker
09-27-2009, 01:10 AM
I watched JDG all game. He is crap.


wow.... seriously? you're either joking or just an idiot.

Blizzard
09-27-2009, 02:40 AM
Garcia was shit, even without the OG but saying that, so many others were MIA.
Frie was to blame for the second goal...he came then stopped. Dude, charge out or dont....He should have come out like a steam train, punched the ball and McBride.


As I've been catching up with this thread, I was wondering when somebody would mention Frei.

Absolutely, he must take blame for the second goal. His hesitancy to commit is the biggest flaw in his game to my mind. The Conor Casey goal of two weeks ago was oh so similar to the McBride goal in that he would not commit to coming out instead hanging back and leaving himself in a pretty much impossible shot-stopping situation.

His second flaw is his poor communications with his defenders. A couple of weeks ago he and Nana were totally on different wavelengths. It looks to my like the defenders, whoever they are, are struggling with whether or not to trust Frei as they don't seem to know what he's going to do next.

The reality is that he is too often leaving his defenders out to dry.

He's a great shot stopper and he'll get better but this is the current reality.

B

nobodybeatsthewiz
09-27-2009, 02:56 AM
right.....julian de guzman sucks, he's awful, its all his fault. i cant believe the borderline....nay...way over the line...sociopathic nature of this board. is it supposed to be some wannabe british bad-toothed wet dream to piledrive our players into the ground the way the limey media would when a player might be off on one game or a couple, game to game? unreal.

im as annoyed as any on here that we wont make the playoffs, but it didnt just happen since jdg came a few games back.

im sad to say but jimmy is brutally out of shape....and maybe out of mind (from a football-iq sense)

Pookie
09-27-2009, 06:38 AM
As a coach and player, there are things you can control and things you can't.

You CAN'T control things like a Ref's decision, a good or bad bounce, weather, the outcome of the match, etc.

You CAN control your level of preparation, your effort, your conditioning, your nutrition, etc.

If we are losing games and/or unable to mount a critical attack in the last 10 minute because we are tired... that is inexcusable.

Players need to be personally accountable for their level of fitness and what they put into their bodies. Obviously, whatever they are doing isn't working.

Coaches, namely strength and conditioning and anyone responsible for nutrition needs to be accountable for this and it absolutely needs to improve in the offseason.

ensco
09-27-2009, 07:50 AM
I wanted Gomez to start, and boy do I wish he had, but I think we should go easy on the vitriol for Garcia. He's not a Cunningham at all.

He's a good guy giving us what he has, which may not be enough, but the fault for that lies with coaches and managers, not him.

The guy cares. You can see it in his demeanour.

Fushida
09-27-2009, 07:53 AM
I wanted Gomez to start, and boy do I wish he had, but I think we should go easy on the vitriol for Garcia. He's not a Cunningham at all.

He's a good guy giving us what he has, which may not be enough, but the fault for that lies with coaches and managers, not him.

The guy cares. You can see it in his demeanour.

I'm sure he cares a lot, but his demeanor doesn't give us back those 2 points that we lost. But you're absolutely right in stating that the coach is at fault. I don't know what dumbass Cummins sees in him, but if he starts AGAIN next game while Gomez stays on the bench... :facepalm:

Razcle
09-27-2009, 08:02 AM
watching the Highlights of the game it is clear why Garcia was "released" by the SJE. He is well over his prime and has no legs to make anything happen anymore. Gomez would have made only one of those mistakes as he is still a youngster but not two, Those two mistakes cost us 2 points and something we will never get back.

** Wow...did that Carr miss remind anyone of last season in Chicago when Mapp (I believe) scored in the final minute to take all three points***

Blazer
09-27-2009, 08:07 AM
Haha. Reading this thread is painful.

“De Guzman sucks. It’s all Frei’s fault.”

How about: “This is a very average team getting better from year to year.” Do we really want to just squeak into the playoffs with no momentum and be embarrassed, or would we rather go in with any amount of promise?! That’s rhetorical, don’t answer.

Beach_Red
09-27-2009, 08:22 AM
Mo has never addressed having a "commander" at the back...an outright centre back!

He again has "bamboozled" the masses with his DP signing (who is a quality player but nowhere near the value that TFC has placed on him) and has ignored the pressing issue...FROM DAY ONE: a goal scorer and a centre back!

Scoring goals tonight wasn't the problem...keeping them out was!

Mo must go!

It's even worse than that, because we did get the players - Tebily and Robert - but we couldn't keep them.

What's to make us think the next ones we sign will stay any longer?

S_D
09-27-2009, 08:29 AM
Sorry but that is a :picard:

Anyone who has watched JDG knows he isn't crap even after an off game. The guy is a proven la liga STAR.

Yes he is a proven la liga star who hasn't played much in the last year, and is definitely playing below the level he is capable of. We saw this in the Gold cup. He played crappy last night no dout.

But as I have said for a while, expect him to be mediocre until he gets his legs back. Wait until next season before making judgements.

Blizz... agree with you on Frei. We have both been on the same page about him for ages. A pity too many people put him on a pedestal when he really doesn't deserve it (yet). The way he plays he is definitely not ready for Europe. Not sure who is to blame, the gk coach or just a lack of confidence. Either way he needs more game time/ training to learn, and people here have to accept that he is going to cost us points for the next couple of seasons.

FluSH
09-27-2009, 09:00 AM
Honestly, I can't believe that NO ONE has openly criticized Wynne for his piss poor defending on the cross that set up the 2nd goal.

You could see JDG urging Marvell to close Justin Mapp down. Instead, Wynne (supposedly the fastest man in MLS) gives him 3-4 yards of space so he can leisurely look up, see an open man just outside the 6 and deposit a lovely cross onto McBride's head.



I Blame the 2nd goal on Frei... as much as he has saved us time and time again... that should not have been a goal. Frei's weakness is that he never comes out of his home or is hesistant to... For the 2nd goal he makes a half-assed attempt doesn't really jump and is caught in the middle... there was another near miss by Chicago right before that could have easily been defuse if Frei stepped our of his posts and jumped to punch or grab the ball...

ArmenJBX
09-27-2009, 09:08 AM
I Blame the 2nd goal on Frei... as much as he has saved us time and time again... that should not have been a goal. Frei's weakness is that he never comes out of his home or is hesistant to... For the 2nd goal he makes a half-assed attempt doesn't really jump and is caught in the middle... there was another near miss by Chicago right before that could have easily been defuse if Frei stepped our of his posts and jumped to punch or grab the ball...

That confidence will come with experience, something Frei doesn't have just yet. He's a rookie goalkeeper playing with professional standards, but, he's still a rookie. This is his first year of Pro soccer.

Frei will only get better, and, with experience, he'll gain the confidence needed to come out and save those kind of balls. But I'm done singling players out. The whole team failed as a unit, so they lose as a unit. Whether or not that's the coaches fault is debatable, but it was a strange performance yesterday.

Like I said...defending a one goal lead with 30 minutes to go while you've been pressuring them for a good 15 minutes, scoring early in the second half...that's sad. You keep attacking, pile on the pressure, go 3-1 up, then relax a bit. You never defend a 1 goal lead for 30 minutes, especially when the backline isn't you're strength. It's suicide.

FluSH
09-27-2009, 09:10 AM
That confidence will come with experience, something Frei doesn't have just yet. He's a rookie goalkeeper playing with professional standards, but, he's still a rookie. This is his first year of Pro soccer.



The rookie cop-out is just that... a rookie cop-out. If this is the case why in the world are we playign him and why aren't we getting someone else or why did we release Sutton? Are we trying to make it to the playoffs here or train rookies to mature out of their first pro-year?

Frei made a horrible mistake... actually two... there was a near miss before the 2nd goal that would have also highlited the fact that at 6ft something Frei doesn't like to jump and attack the ball....

ArmenJBX
09-27-2009, 09:13 AM
The rookie cop-out is just that... a rookie cop-out. If this is the case why in the world are we playign him and why aren't we getting someone else or why did we release Sutton? Are we trying to make it to the playoffs here or train rookies to mature out of their first pro-year.

A little of both I guess. I dunno, Frei's been kickass, but yesterday he showed his inexperience. We, or at least, I, couldn't tell it's his first season for a lot of the games he's played for us. He's a solid goalkeeper. But he made a rookie mistake yesterday. I can forgive Frei for that. I can't forgive Garcia for ball watching. I can't forgive him for the own goal. But, overall, I can't forgive the team for putting themselves in this shit. We have the quality to be second in the conference, hell, we were there for the majority of the first half of the season. But, as always, we shit the bed late.

Let's see what happens in 3 games. At least we got a point away to Chicago, one of the better teams in the league.

106-12
09-27-2009, 09:17 AM
I agree with flush about FREI not coming out to get the ball in the six yards.The second goal was acopy of casey,s goal here.Now Garcia is slow and weak in the air . CC IS NOT ACOACH do we remember how he got the job ? and that is why we are in this spot.

ArmenJBX
09-27-2009, 09:20 AM
But is there another coach we could hire? any names? :D

forza_tfc
09-27-2009, 09:25 AM
You're right. Wynne should have closed down on that cross. And it's a mistake Attakora probably wouldn't have made as a RB.

I think Wynne has shown he doesn't belong as an MLS starting RB. It amazes me that we were actually worried about him getting snapped up by a European side a few months ago - he has regressed horribly.

- Scott

I used to see some potential in Wynne--but now I'm convinced that there's no training this guy. Yes, he's fast and athletic, but so are horses. Barrett, at times, also suffers from this.

106-12
09-27-2009, 09:26 AM
But is there another coach we could hire? any names? :D
No . im just reminding everybody of how we got here and some of the things that happend to us .

v00d00daddy
09-27-2009, 09:29 AM
Honestly, I can't believe that NO ONE has openly criticized Wynne for his piss poor defending on the cross that set up the 2nd goal.

You could see JDG urging Marvell to close Justin Mapp down. Instead, Wynne (supposedly the fastest man in MLS) gives him 3-4 yards of space so he can leisurely look up, see an open man just outside the 6 and deposit a lovely cross onto McBride's head.

To his credit, Forrest brought it up. That is a HUGE error, the kind of huge defensive error Wynne is consistently guilty of making.

Just a few minutes earlier, Wynne was a brain cramp away from possibly setting up or scoring the 3-1 goal that would have salvaged the season after a neat little pull back inside the 18 allowed him to cut to the net where, as usual, he hesitated and had his time and space taken from him. Had he done the same to Justin Mapp, maybe TFC wins 2-1 and their playoff chances still exist

I hate watching Wynne play.

The play you're talking about in your last point is a perfect example. He does well to get into the box in a good position and can't pull the trigger because his left leg is only used to hold him up.

He's not a soccer player. He's a sprinter that somebody tried to turn in to some kind of Frankenfootballer.

ArmenJBX
09-27-2009, 09:29 AM
We still need two things. A striker who can score 10 goals a season, and a centerback who can organize the defense properly and defend like a CB should.

Would David Edgar require a DP salary? Just an idea. As for the striker, Mo, go to Brazil, and instead of sipping your fruity drinks and tanning with the wife, go watch Gremio play Corinthians or something. Find us a striker. Trust me, Brazil aren't lacking footballing talent.

Macksam
09-27-2009, 09:32 AM
It's even worse than that, because we did get the players - Tebily and Robert - but we couldn't keep them.

What's to make us think the next ones we sign will stay any longer?
Robert was a center back? I thought he was a winger.

Anyhow, the guy we need is Kevin Mckenna.

Krasno.pL.
09-27-2009, 09:33 AM
We still need two things. A striker who can score 10 goals a season, and a centerback who can organize the defense properly and defend like a CB should.

Would David Edgar require a DP salary? Just an idea. As for the striker, Mo, go to Brazil, and instead of sipping your fruity drinks and tanning with the wife, go watch Gremio play Corinthians or something. Find us a striker. Trust me, Brazil aren't lacking footballing talent.

he makes around 10k a week... soo i would think soo :)
close anyways..

Beach_Red
09-27-2009, 09:41 AM
Robert was a center back? I thought he was a winger.

Anyhow, the guy we need is Kevin Mckenna.


Didn't the original quote say we needed a CB and a winger? Oh well, lots of people on here are saying those are the two biggest holes. All I wanted to say was that first we have to convince the players to come here and then we have to convince them to stay. We can't just overpay every player on the roster to get them here.

As for a coach, it would seem likely that there are probably a lot more experienced coaches willing to come here now that the team is a little established and actually has some decent players on the roster. It will be a better offer than trying to get a coach to come and run an expansion team.

You just know there are a lot of coaches out there who really feel they could get more points with this roster.

Macksam
09-27-2009, 09:45 AM
Didn't the original quote say we needed a CB and a winger? Oh well, lots of people on here are saying those are the two biggest holes. All I wanted to say was that first we have to convince the players to come here and then we have to convince them to stay. We can't just overpay every player on the roster to get them here.

As for a coach, it would seem likely that there are probably a lot more experienced coaches willing to come here now that the team is a little established and actually has some decent players on the roster. It will be a better offer than trying to get a coach to come and run an expansion team.

You just know there are a lot of coaches out there who really feel they could get more points with this roster.
Right, I must not have seen his post pre-edited. Anyhow, I agree those are the two holes we need to fill. Getting Simpson and Mckenna should fill those holes. Them being Canadian and BMO getting grass should make them stay.

Beach_Red
09-27-2009, 09:48 AM
Right, I must not have seen his post pre-edited. Anyhow, I agree those are the two holes we need to fill. Getting Simpson and Mckenna should fill those holes. Them being Canadian and BMO getting grass should make them stay.


Yeah, that would be great. Grass will help, for sure.

Things are not nearly as bleak as this board makes it seem.

ArmenJBX
09-27-2009, 09:53 AM
he makes around 10k a week... soo i would think soo :)
close anyways..

10 k a week x 35 weeks.

350,000 a year. Which is around what Vitti makes. We could offer him 400,000 for the year under the new cap. He wouldn't need DP after that right?

Unless I'm doing the math wrong here.

Krasno.pL.
09-27-2009, 09:59 AM
Really? ^ they only count salaries per games? thought they were paid all year for 52 weeks.

+ the bonus of playing in the PREMIERSHIP :)

ag futbol
09-27-2009, 10:01 AM
I'm sure he cares a lot, but his demeanor doesn't give us back those 2 points that we lost. But you're absolutely right in stating that the coach is at fault. I don't know what dumbass Cummins sees in him, but if he starts AGAIN next game while Gomez stays on the bench... :facepalm:
The only thing i will say here is that Garcia is the only "organizer" we have for the backline on this team.

I agree that Gomez is the better defender, but when we played without him (Garcia) back there everybody gets out of sorts. Now maybe in time Attakora, Gomez, etc.. can pull it together, but for now they are guys who are individually talented but need a leader back there with them to keep them in line. I'd also say that Gomez is still working though some very rookie like brain cramps out there. I'd say playing him in moderation is the best call. Let him develop without giving him too much rope to hang himself with.

I think the bottom line is you take two defensively challenged full-backs, one aging slow CB, and one very good young player: the end result is the CB's have to cover for the fullbacks inabilities often, leaving them exposed.

So 3/4 new players on the backline are probably needed, but in the short run, tell Brennan / Wynn to keep it in check or they'll be riding the bench. We need defensive resposibility way more than extra attacking muscle right now.

ArmenJBX
09-27-2009, 10:01 AM
520,000 then.

that's....a lot for a defender. Nevermind.

Macksam
09-27-2009, 10:22 AM
How about Steven Vitória?:D

ManUtd4ever
09-27-2009, 10:25 AM
As has been mentioned, I can't for the life of me understand why Cummins didn't utilize the bench last night...it's as if we beat ourselves even though it was a draw. What a shame...now we're living on a hope and a prayer...

ManUtd4ever
09-27-2009, 10:26 AM
...and yes, Gomez should've definitely started in place of Garcia...

TFCtoMUFC
09-27-2009, 10:30 AM
It doesnt matter who starts in the place of Garcia, it could be freakin Steven Hawking and he'd play better.

TFCtoMUFC
09-27-2009, 10:32 AM
The only thing i will say here is that Garcia is the only "organizer" we have for the backline on this team.

I agree that Gomez is the better defender, but when we played without him (Garcia) back there everybody gets out of sorts. Now maybe in time Attakora, Gomez, etc.. can pull it together, but for now they are guys who are individually talented but need a leader back there with them to keep them in line. I'd also say that Gomez is still working though some very rookie like brain cramps out there. I'd say playing him in moderation is the best call. Let him develop without giving him too much rope to hang himself with.

I think the bottom line is you take two defensively challenged full-backs, one aging slow CB, and one very good young player: the end result is the CB's have to cover for the fullbacks inabilities often, leaving them exposed.

So 3/4 new players on the backline are probably needed, but in the short run, tell Brennan / Wynn to keep it in check or they'll be riding the bench. We need defensive resposibility way more than extra attacking muscle right now.

Add to that, when Wynne decides to forget what position he plays DeGuzman ends up covering back and sometimes Cronin as well. I'd rather have Cronin and DeGuz on the attack and Marvell back so he needs to play his GD POSITION!

Keegan
09-27-2009, 10:35 AM
10 k a week x 35 weeks.

350,000 a year. Which is around what Vitti makes. We could offer him 400,000 for the year under the new cap. He wouldn't need DP after that right?

Unless I'm doing the math wrong here.

No I think Edgar is making around a million US a year. It is times 52 weeks actually and 10 000 pounds. So that is around 1 million USD

mdc 77
09-27-2009, 10:40 AM
I really don't think there is much to say about last nights match except that Cummins has to go to the bench. (well I could go on about Garcia but whatever he is what he is) I know its easy to put blame on Cummins but I've never seen a manager misuse his bench or not use his bench the way Cummins has.

I hope Mo already has someone in mind when the season is done. We need to go into next year with a smart, confident manager. Paul Mariner is an obvious choice.

cmonyoureds
09-27-2009, 10:47 AM
you know who would've looked great instead of Garcia last night? Tyrone Marshall. Strike 3 or more like 1 billion against Mo.

ArmenJBX
09-27-2009, 10:59 AM
a million bux a year :(

Oh boy. :(

Maybe we get another DP spot? Is that possible?

Ontario Arab
09-27-2009, 11:04 AM
Team needs a Good experienced CB and a Good experienced Forward and a Good experienced Manager.........Simple really

napoli73
09-27-2009, 11:05 AM
This team has some very serious issues.
1.Coaching/tactics....movement with and without the ball is below some high school teams i watch.

2. To many pylons that are used in practice have made into into the starting line up..
Brennan
Robinson
Gracia
Barrett
feel free to add to the list.

3. Fitness...now not that its is a problem but i think it has to do with the way the team plays....teams find it easy to defend against Toronto with little or no running involved, thus conserving energy and looking more lively near the end of matches. What i'm trying to say is that Toronto has no idea how to get open and pass the ball to the open man...no holding the ball, no passing it around, no patience what so ever....why do all those keep away drills...if they even do them? That's how you discourage other teams and they tend to sit back instead of chasing quality passing....my niece's team can defend against TFC, all you have to do is pressure the ball carrier and TFC excellent ball hoofing skills are shown.

HORRIBLE SOCCER!

koryo
09-27-2009, 11:07 AM
If Colorado three weeks ago wasn't the death knell for this season... and LA last week wasn't the death knell of this season, then last night certainly was.

It is monumentally frustrating to see this team revert to the same antics that punish them - and us - time and again.

Have a lead? start hoofing the ball away in the 65th minute. Nevermind that you'll be chasing it for the last 30 and concede due to unnecessary fatigue.

Subbing off your lone striker? Bring on a defensive mid. 1+1=17.3, apparently.

Have you been playing well by using a quick short-pass & move game? Sod it, let's go back to route 1 thereby ensuring any build up in play and momentum we might create is instantly wiped out.

Failed to win again? No sweat! Just keep a straight face while you tell the media that a) you are extremely disappointed, b) you still control your own destiny this season and c) the post-season will happen, despite not being able to win a game in a month of Fridays.

I'd be furious this morning if this team wasn't such a farce at times.

profit89
09-27-2009, 11:10 AM
Garcia is useless.

napoli73
09-27-2009, 11:10 AM
If Colorado three weeks ago wasn't the death knell for this season... and LA last week wasn't the death knell of this season, then last night certainly was.

It is monumentally frustrating to see this team revert to the same antics that punish them - and us - time and again.

Have a lead? start hoofing the ball away in the 65th minute. Nevermind that you'll be chasing it for the last 30 and concede due to unnecessary fatigue.

Subbing off your lone striker? Bring on a defensive mid. 1+1=17.3, apparently.

Have you been playing well by using a quick short-pass & move game? Sod it, let's go back to route 1 thereby ensuring any build up in play and momentum we might create is instantly wiped out.

Failed to win again? No sweat! Just keep a straight face while you tell the media that a) you are extremely disappointed, b) you still control your own destiny this season and c) the post-season will happen, despite not being able to win a game in a month of Fridays.

I'd be furious this morning if this team wasn't such a farce at times.

Wow we were thinking the same thing at the same time.....it is that obvious why were are gassed at chasing bad passes instead of tick tac toe passing?

Mango Kid
09-27-2009, 11:12 AM
Garcia is making Andy Welsh seem like money well spent.

ArmenJBX
09-27-2009, 11:17 AM
and Mo Clownston spent 3 years going after Garcia. what a complete joke.

3 years ago, Garcia was much, much better though. I remember watching him, with KC. Good, solid defender. Someone turned down the knob on this guy though.

SoccMan
09-27-2009, 11:22 AM
The biggest mistake that Mo made this year and no one has still not giving me a good explanation on why he did this was when he let Tyrone Marshall go, the only decent center back we had, Tyrone Marshall who I thought was a very capable center back for us, Tyrone Marshall who I can't remember ever having a bad game back there, Mo let him go and never got a true replacement, even letting go Dunivent was a big mistake. He let go two good guys back there expecialy Marshall and never got any good replacements, just look at our goals against and you see why we are in the predicament we are in. Just for this mistake alone is a good reason to let Mo go. This was a major mistake by Mo any organization would fire a general manager for such a mistake. I'm sorry but Mo needs to go just on this one fuck up, never mind the many others he has made!

Nerepis
09-27-2009, 11:22 AM
Wow, this thread has gone 6 pages and no one has yet blamed an MLS Ref for our loss (ie. the intentional hand ball on Dero's breakway) not sure whether that's good or bad, shows the board maturing or not, just interesting.

koryo
09-27-2009, 11:22 AM
Wow we were thinking the same thing at the same time.....it is that obvious why were are gassed at chasing bad passes instead of tick tac toe passing?

Is anyone humming "always look on the bright side of life" this morning?

:)

RedLion wrote an email this morning suggesting that Garcia could "jump" on the next plane out of town, or perhaps be "run" out of town.

He quickly corrected himself when he realized Garcia performing either action would contradict the laws of physics.

koryo
09-27-2009, 11:24 AM
Wow, this thread has gone 6 pages and no one has yet blamed an MLS Ref for our loss (ie. the intentional hand ball on Dero's breakway) not sure whether that's good or bad, shows the board maturing or not, just interesting.

I think that piss-poor reffing is something we just know will happen. It's a bit like saying "the sky is blue" and "the grass is green".

And realistically, if we need all decisions to go our way to win a game then that reflects worse on the team than the ref.

Nerepis
09-27-2009, 11:36 AM
I think that piss-poor reffing is something we just know will happen. It's a bit like saying "the sky is blue" and "the grass is green".

And realistically, if we need all decisions to go our way to win a game then that reflects worse on the team than the ref.

I think your right, oh and by the way "the grass dye lot #306"

ensco
09-27-2009, 11:42 AM
The game was a comedy of errors on both sides.

It was a 50/50 game, we could have won or lost. We easily could have lost. We potted the two scoring chances we had.

We needed better.

Beach_Red
09-27-2009, 11:43 AM
The biggest mistake that Mo made this year and no one has still not giving me a good explanation on why he did this was when he let Tyrone Marshall go, the only decent center back we had, Tyrone Marshall who I thought was a very capable center back for us, Tyrone Marshall who I can't remember ever having a bad game back there, Mo let him go and never got a true replacement, even letting go Dunivent was a big mistake. He let go two good guys back there expecialy Marshall and never got any good replacements, just look at our goals against and you see why we are in the predicament we are in. Just for this mistake alone is a good reason to let Mo go. This was a major mistake by Mo any organization would fire a general manager for such a mistake. I'm sorry but Mo needs to go just on this one fuck up, never mind the many others he has made!


Tyrone Marshall isn't the difference between a playoff team and an also ran. He was one of many many mistakes, but not the biggest. The lack of an experienced coach is the biggest.

Marco2K
09-27-2009, 11:47 AM
Well I just watched the game as i went to watch Russell peters last night!


Heres my take.

garcia is just terrible, he is slow and lacks any ability to defend any movement by the other team.

The Bottom line is that Cummins is not a COACH. He has not clue. Watching this game has made me very very upset.
We show nothing.

We should have been able to get the 3 points tonight.

How in the hell does Mo allow this to happean. How can he not try and give cummins some advice.


Instead toronto got lucky to get a tie.

AND NOW THE GOOD NEWS!


TORONTOS HAS THE BEST FANS. IT MAKES ME SO HAPPY TO SEE OUR BOYS IN THE STANDS. KING DAVE WAS SEEN AFEW TIMES.
I CANT MAKE ALL THE ROAD TRIPS BUT 2 THUMBS UP TO ALL THE ROAD WARRIORS!!

AND THEN THE FLARE!!

HOW F UCKIN SWEET.



And now Columbus is on to again with a double digit point lead on us.


This is terrible.

A team like Chicago has made the playoffs 11 of 12 seasons. Us 0-3.


Just makes me MAD!!

jloome
09-27-2009, 12:04 PM
The biggest mistake that Mo made this year and no one has still not giving me a good explanation on why he did this was when he let Tyrone Marshall go, the only decent center back we had, Tyrone Marshall who I thought was a very capable center back for us, Tyrone Marshall who I can't remember ever having a bad game back there, Mo let him go and never got a true replacement, even letting go Dunivent was a big mistake. He let go two good guys back there expecialy Marshall and never got any good replacements, just look at our goals against and you see why we are in the predicament we are in. Just for this mistake alone is a good reason to let Mo go. This was a major mistake by Mo any organization would fire a general manager for such a mistake. I'm sorry but Mo needs to go just on this one fuck up, never mind the many others he has made!

He and Hurtado have combined for the lowest goals against in the league (Keller doesn't hurt on that front, either).

It's a crying shame; he was usually pretty solid for us, and paired with Attakora, had Mo or Cummins recognized his potential at the start of the season......

We'd still have issues, because we have two attacking fullbacks who don't cover their positions solidly on defense. But it wouldn't be as shambolic as with Garcia and, much of the time, Serioux out there.

TFC07
09-27-2009, 12:46 PM
Didn't Marshall leave because he wanted to play for Sigi Schmid? I believe he forced TFC to trade him to Seattle.

On a side note, kudos to traveling TFC fans for lighting up couple of flares. :flare::flare:

Oblio2
09-27-2009, 12:47 PM
wow.... seriously? you're either joking or just an idiot.

Really?
Personal attacks?

egoodwin
09-27-2009, 01:06 PM
AND NOW THE GOOD NEWS!


TORONTOS HAS THE BEST FANS. IT MAKES ME SO HAPPY TO SEE OUR BOYS IN THE STANDS. KING DAVE WAS SEEN AFEW TIMES.
I CANT MAKE ALL THE ROAD TRIPS BUT 2 THUMBS UP TO ALL THE ROAD WARRIORS!!

AND THEN THE FLARE!!

HOW F UCKIN SWEET.




Did you see game in 6 minutes?

Marco2K
09-27-2009, 01:08 PM
well i recored it on the PVR... SWEET!

Shakes McQueen
09-27-2009, 02:13 PM
If Colorado three weeks ago wasn't the death knell for this season... and LA last week wasn't the death knell of this season, then last night certainly was.

It is monumentally frustrating to see this team revert to the same antics that punish them - and us - time and again.

Have a lead? start hoofing the ball away in the 65th minute. Nevermind that you'll be chasing it for the last 30 and concede due to unnecessary fatigue.

Subbing off your lone striker? Bring on a defensive mid. 1+1=17.3, apparently.

Have you been playing well by using a quick short-pass & move game? Sod it, let's go back to route 1 thereby ensuring any build up in play and momentum we might create is instantly wiped out.

Failed to win again? No sweat! Just keep a straight face while you tell the media that a) you are extremely disappointed, b) you still control your own destiny this season and c) the post-season will happen, despite not being able to win a game in a month of Fridays.

I'd be furious this morning if this team wasn't such a farce at times.

Perfectly stated, koryo.

- Scott

Davenport
09-27-2009, 02:53 PM
JDG is a great wee player. He's strong on the ball, lets give him a few more game eh?
He's a busy little player, but he's not going to win or save games.
Top strikers or defenders do that.
He's neither and is a COMPLETE waste of massive money and a DP position.

Alixir
09-27-2009, 04:12 PM
I can't wait till the day that Nick Garcia is sent packing...he has been a weak link on the back line since...well since we signed him. We have basically little to no chance of making the playoffs...make your displeasure with him heard. Boo him everytime he touches the ball the last couple games at BMO. He doesn't deserve the steam off my shit.

rocker
09-27-2009, 04:17 PM
He's a busy little player, but he's not going to win or save games.
Top strikers or defenders do that.
He's neither and is a COMPLETE waste of massive money and a DP position.

no top striker wins games in MLS by himself (see Juan Pablo Angel, or Landon Donovan before Bruce Arena)
It's about "team play" and having decent players all over the pitch.

If we signed a DP striker it wouldn't make a difference over De Guzman until the team play came together.

This is the fallacy of signing a DP that teams make year after year. They think a DP will solve the problems in the rest of the squad.

We don't need a DP defender either. We need a decent defender to isn't flashy but who gets the job done.

Oldtimer
09-27-2009, 04:57 PM
no top striker wins games in MLS by himself (see Juan Pablo Angel, or Landon Donovan before Bruce Arena)
It's about "team play" and having decent players all over the pitch.

If we signed a DP striker it wouldn't make a difference over De Guzman until the team play came together.

This is the fallacy of signing a DP that teams make year after year. They think a DP will solve the problems in the rest of the squad.

We don't need a DP defender either. We need a decent defender to isn't flashy but who gets the job done.

The issue is coaching, and an imbalanced team (too many midfielders).
Good coaching can make a lot out of an otherwise crap team (John Limniatiis showed that with Montreal). Bad coaching can make a fantastic team look bad. Poor general management (LA until this year, RSL for the first few years until their GM was fired) ends up with a team with glaring weaknesses.

We have a coach with poor tactics and a GM who doesn't give us a balanced team (despite getting some fantastic players). That's why we can't win.

Now the lack of balanced team might be on Carver, as he said that Mo listened to him who to bring in.

Cummins will be gone, and if Mo listens to the next coach about who to bring in, then we can change this side into a winning side, provided we get a quality coach.

Kaz
09-27-2009, 05:17 PM
He's a busy little player, but he's not going to win or save games.
Top strikers or defenders do that.
He's neither and is a COMPLETE waste of massive money and a DP position.
Several times last night he prevented the ball from moving from the middle third to the defensive third. He most likely helped prevent build ups of play that would have lead to goals, so ya he actually more then likely allowed us to keep the tie.. and would have allowed us to have a win if not for bone head defending and a keeper that obviously dosen't trust his defenders enough to stay on his line.

Last night was salvaged by JDG and we would have lost without him.. so ya I think it was a good purchase.

now for the back line...

Roogsy
09-27-2009, 07:15 PM
JDG is going to get a lot of criticism on this board for not having a flashy position and doing the dirty work. He hasn't had much of an impact yet and considering the size of his salary comparatively speaking, it's going to draw criticism. Like I said, JDG joining us at this point in the season was ridiculous.

As for the goals...listen...all defensive players have ugly own goals on their resume. I don't particularly blame Garcia for the first goal as much as I hold him partially responsible for poor communication between the keeper and his backline. Frei's poor decision-making on crosses has been a killer for us this season, which is why I am so baffled by the "Frei for President" segment of this board. He hasn't been as good as people make him out to be, but let's keep pumping him up so we can sell him to Europe! I'd rather take the dollars than keep him to be honest.

As for the 2nd goal...Garcia was marking McBride as well as can be expected, McBride has been putting those away in the Premier League for years. My biggest problem is with closing down opposition players.

I watched the game with a friend from England yesterday who is an Arsenal supporter and he was amazed at the poor effort in closing down players by our team. (He was also unimpressed with the velocity of the MLS game but that is another conversation altogether). However, his most vocal complaint was about players being allowed to develop plays unaccountable and unpressured.

It's disgusting.

If Cummins can't get these players to play proper defense, get someone else who can. But I am tired of watching this team suck defensively. Mo Johnson did what I feared he would do at the beginning of the season, fail to address the backline issue. He brought in Garcia half-way through the season as sort of a make-up for losing Marshall which means he did a sum-equivalent of NOTHING to address our porous backline. And the overall poor effort by the entire team in pressuring the opposition and letting them develop their offensive plays unhindered. It's angering. It's unprofessional. It's the reason we suck.

Mo Johnston has failed to improve this team this season.

Chris Cummins has failed to capitalize on the opportunity handed to him to make something with a team that understandably was not of his choosing, but he also did nothing with what he had.

Most players have underperformed this year. The only highlights for me this year have been Attakora and De Rosario. Our Man of the Year should be one of these two. Other players have regressed.

Robbo has had a poor year.
Brennan has regressed.
Wynne has gone from having potential to outright sucking.
Guevara has been lost since the halfway point of the season.
Barrett has been underwhelming. Duane Rollins will definitely be wearing a dress this year.

Other players that were brought in this year I can't make a comparison with last year but have otherwise failed to impress much.

Gerba should've done better but also had poor service.
Vitti has had enough of a chance, if we keep him it better be at a substantial discount.
JDG, his impact will be next year, not this year.
Cronin started off well and has become consistent but unspectacular.
Garcia has obviously aged and isn't the defender he was before.
Gomez and Sanyang will be decent solid players but are still too inexperienced.
Serioux has been solid but far too often injured, which has been his history from team to team.
White will become a decent scorer I think but coming off of injury we needed someone else this year up top.

FluSH
09-27-2009, 07:50 PM
If I recall correctly... didn't Garcia also made things harder for us during the Miracle in Montreal... man what is it with him and Big games...

FluSH
09-27-2009, 07:54 PM
Something that probably hasn't been mentioned... because well we are in a pretty sad state of affairs... is that Dobson was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better on this broadcast!

Usually I can't stand the combination of Dobson & Forrest... however Dobson definately stepped it up//


Yes Kudos 2 Dobson! Hopefully he keeps this up...

Roogsy
09-27-2009, 07:55 PM
I loved it when Forrest was chuckling at the flare-lighting from one end and then the other.

felipe
09-27-2009, 08:09 PM
wow..I read the whole thread and have to wait until the very end before someone mentions the lack of closing down. They were given carte blanche to send cross after cross in - any central D would give up goals in the air against that. Frankly, had chi finished better they could have had 5.

I thought it was Guevera that didn't close down the pass for the second goal - but the boards say it was Wynne, so I'll take it at that - that goal was entirely his fault for giving the Chi player all that time and space.

honestly, apart from his high profile lapses, Garcia was pretty solid (he really does read th game exceptionally well), - and his lapses were not entirely his fault - miscommunication, (really just bad luck) on the first and a taller physical player was given a pinpoint cross on his head for the second.

I thought we lost the win when we began hoofing the ball aimlessly up (the first 60 minutes we passed it around pretty well - and kept possession well); and then we were defending ridicously high with time winding down, and were getting three 'defenders' beat by the first pass. There was absolutley no team defensive shape, players were getting pulled out far too easily.

when Gerba came off I was shocked, I thought for sure it was gonna be Guevera, who put in his typical 'token' effort night. The guy only plays when he wants too, and i'll be happy to see him leave.

but for 60 minutes, yeah, they played pretty well.

I still believe the playoffs are coming to BMO this year!

Roogsy
09-27-2009, 08:11 PM
wow..I read the whole thread and have to wait until the very end before someone mentions the lack of closing down. They were given carte blanche to send cross after cross in - any central D would give up goals in the air against that. Frankly, had chi finished better they could have had 5.

I thought it was Guevera that didn't close down the pass for the second goal - but the boards say it was Wynne, so I'll take it at that - that goal was entirely his fault for giving the Chi player all that time and space.

honestly, apart from his high profile lapses, Garcia was pretty solid (he really does read th game exceptionally well), - and his lapses were not entirely his fault - miscommunication, (really just bad luck) on the first and a taller physical player was given a pinpoint cross on his head for the second.

I thought we lost the win when we began hoofing the ball aimlessly up (the first 60 minutes we passed it around pretty well - and kept possession well); and then we were defending ridicously high with time winding down, and were getting three 'defenders' beat by the first pass. There was absolutley no team defensive shape, players were getting pulled out far too easily.

when Gerba came off I was shocked, I thought for sure it was gonna be Guevera, who put in his typical 'token' effort night. The guy only plays when he wants too, and i'll be happy to see him leave.

but for 60 minutes, yeah, they played pretty well.

I still believe the playoffs are coming to BMO this year!

I agree 99%...until you got to the playoffs at BMO part. Are you talking about the Lacrosse team that plays there? :p

KrazyKanadian
09-27-2009, 10:13 PM
I agree 99%...until you got to the playoffs at BMO part. Are you talking about the Lacrosse team that plays there? :p

You mean the one that won the championship this year? :)

K1nG
09-27-2009, 11:09 PM
MoJo failed to find us a coach this year. Cummins should have never had the interim or temporary tag associated with his name. Coaching a club for 90% of a season can hardly be called interim. Cummins, like Carver and Mo, just did not have what it took to install a system within the players.. Mourinho given this squad would have won the league. Im not saying that there are Mourinho calibur coaches willing to coach in MLS but there must be coaches out there good enough to take us to the playoffs.

Fire Mo. If not for anything else but for signing a 5'10" old man with no vertical game, no speed and no skill to anchor our back line. 30 isn't that old but this guy plays like hes 48.

Oldtimer
09-28-2009, 07:23 AM
Fire Mo. If not for anything else but for signing a 5'10" old man with no vertical game, no speed and no skill to anchor our back line. 30 isn't that old but this guy plays like hes 48.

Yet it very well may have been Cummins who wanted Garcia in. The coach asks for the players, MoJo does the deals. As it should be.

I'm willing to give MoJo a pass on Garcia.

trane
09-28-2009, 10:12 AM
This game realy came down to ussing Garcia, the first goal, the one Garcia score for Chicago, was a brain cramp, a lack of communication. I understand how it happened, he tried to protect the ball and get it to the keeper, but it was a HUGE mistake, and when the only asset that Garcia has, no size, no height, no strengh, no speed, not particullarly skilled, then this is fatal. BUT THE SECOND WAS EVEN LARGER, you are playing for you playoff live, and you now you have, no size, no height, no strenght, no speed, and you let an EPL quality striker into the box unmarked. ANY HAVE DECENT CB AT ANY LEVEL PUTS HIS BODY ON THE MCBRIDE AND TAKES AWAY SPACE. ANY PROFESSIONAL CB IN ANY LEAGUE, over then the MLS admitetly, DOES THIS. McBride was not running, there was not alot of pressure, he was just standing in the box, Garcia was 3 to 6 feet infront of him observing. But this is also a team failure, someone should have yelled and screamed at Garcia to mark him and in THREE YEARS WE STILL CANNOT DEFEND AS WELL AS A THIRD TIER EUROPEAN LEAGUE. We will never win on a consistent basis, we are not Barca and Real who can score multiple goals on any team. We score two goals on the road, we had good possession, if we could do that most basic of footy tasks defend, we would be on our way to the play offs. We do not deserve to be in the play offs if we conceded goals like that. This issue has been here since we lost our first game 4-0 and has never, been addressed, and I am starting to belive that it will never be properly addressed under current managment.

TOBOR !
09-28-2009, 10:56 AM
Any sound-minded defender puts that ball into row Z. He tries to be clever without knowing where he stood in relation to the goal, or indeed where Frei was. It was a classic slo-mo distaster that you could see unfolding right before your eyes. Absolutely embarrassing for us all.

At least he's stopped wearing those stupid yellow boots of his - made him look like a real git - like he was wearing bananas on his feet.

His playing ability and hair style makes me think of Adam Braz. His number was Marco Reda's. That's who Nick Garcia is....

He's Adamo Brazda.

Oblio2
09-28-2009, 11:23 AM
Any sound-minded defender puts that ball into row Z. .


When in doubt...kick it out

every 6 year old knows this

Kaz
09-28-2009, 11:58 AM
Yet it very well may have been Cummins who wanted Garcia in. The coach asks for the players, MoJo does the deals. As it should be.

I'm willing to give MoJo a pass on Garcia.


Of course it is possible that we wanted Gerba, San Jose had his rights, they said sure take his right but we want you to take Garcia too, and give us a draft pick. (can't recall all the details of trade) MO could have said, he that solves our CB problem..

I doubt that is how it went down but it's possible.

Garcia has got to go.. no one even wanted him lol.. he can't feel loved, respected or desired here... I think retirement might be good for him...

Oldtimer
09-28-2009, 12:14 PM
When in doubt...kick it out

every 6 year old knows this

I think you don't learn that until at least you're 8 years-old.
At 6, you're still trying to remember which direction is the opposite team's goal. :D

Pookie
09-28-2009, 01:11 PM
Any sound-minded defender puts that ball into row Z

While we are talking about frustrations, my blood pressure was up during minutes 80+ as we needed a goal for the 3 points and likely our playoff hopes yet we continually just "put the ball into row Z." Maybe a great tactic to ease pressure during the game but not exactly brilliant to give up possession when you are in need of a goal.

I wonder how quickly Chicago is going to put that one back into play??

TFC Tifoso
09-28-2009, 01:32 PM
Garcia should go back to being lead singer for Creed.......

jloome
09-28-2009, 02:41 PM
Yet it very well may have been Cummins who wanted Garcia in. The coach asks for the players, MoJo does the deals. As it should be.

I'm willing to give MoJo a pass on Garcia.

Given that he and Mo played together at KC, that seems unlikely. In fact, given his journeyman status in the last couple of years, it's possible Cummins had never even heard of him.

pekduck
09-28-2009, 02:47 PM
Given that he and Mo played together at KC, that seems unlikely. In fact, given his journeyman status in the last couple of years, it's possible Cummins had never even heard of him.

so mo told cc he's getting a good central back to replace velez and cc believed mo

then garcia outscored veleze in our own net

is that the gist?

Kaz
09-28-2009, 10:45 PM
ya I took a look at the Gerba and Garcia trade.

We asked for Gerba.Mo Listened and picked up Garcia as well all for a 3rd round pick...

This is kinda our fault.

But more so Mo's
Garcia has been a liabilty in San Jose all season so Mo said sure...

TFC Tifoso
09-29-2009, 06:59 AM
ya I took a look at the Gerba and Garcia trade.

We asked for Gerba.Mo Listened and picked up Garcia as well all for a 3rd round pick...

This is kinda our fault.

But more so Mo's
Garcia has been a liabilty in San Jose all season so Mo said sure...

How?!?! What GM in his right mind would listen to the supporters in the first place?